dCS to implement DSD over USB

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Blackstone

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dCS to implement DSD over USB
« on: 5 Aug 2012, 05:49 am »
Google it. There is a whitepaper and it goes into some products as of 8/1/12.

ted_b

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Re: dCS to implement DSD over USB
« Reply #1 on: 5 Aug 2012, 12:12 pm »
This has been discussed here and elsewhere for almost a year now.  Please use search, and see threads like these, or at least present some information if you are going to start a new thread, not just "google it".
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=106117.0
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=106310.0
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/good-reading-ii-dsd-and-pcm-10502/
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/dcs-announces-pure-dsd-playback-usb-8603/

Andreas Koch and the whole DoP team got their ideas from the dCS folks (who are just now implementing version 1.0) and have run with it quite successfully. 

I have been using and writing about DoP (DSD over PCM) for at least 8 months.  I wrote a guide about SACD ripping (to obtain native DSD) and in it discuss DoP and its versions (now on version 1.1).
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue59/dsd.htm

I have 3 DACs inhouse that currently use DoP (Meitner, Mytek, eXD/Sonore).  And we have begun discussing DoP for multichannel native DSD too. 

simon wagstaff

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Re: dCS to implement DSD over USB
« Reply #2 on: 5 Aug 2012, 01:00 pm »
Ah, DoP. I knew it! :lol:

jtwrace

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Re: dCS to implement DSD over USB
« Reply #3 on: 5 Aug 2012, 01:01 pm »
I wrote a guide about SACD ripping (to obtain native DSD) and in it discuss DoP and its versions (now on version 1.1).
Where can we see this guide? 

PeteG

Re: dCS to implement DSD over USB
« Reply #4 on: 5 Aug 2012, 01:10 pm »
Where can we see this guide?
Ted emails his guide to me, he sends one everytime there's a new version. It looks like he put a lot of work in this.
« Last Edit: 5 Aug 2012, 04:38 pm by PeteG »

ted_b

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Re: dCS to implement DSD over USB
« Reply #5 on: 5 Aug 2012, 01:14 pm »
Where can we see this guide?

Jason,
I have offered it on many threads.  I'll email you the whole thing (links, etc)

jtwrace

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Re: dCS to implement DSD over USB
« Reply #6 on: 5 Aug 2012, 01:17 pm »
Jason,
I have offered it on many threads.  I'll email you the whole thing (links, etc)
Awesome!   :thumb:

ted_b

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Re: dCS to implement DSD over USB
« Reply #7 on: 5 Aug 2012, 04:30 pm »
I've gotten a few questions/PM's about DoP and DSD.

Myths:
*  DoP is not true DSD.  Wrong.  DoP is a clever standard of utiiizing existing 24/176k DAC signal paths to carry the TRUE DSD native signal.  It is not converted to PCM at any point, it is simply carried, stacked, on the first 16 bits of the 24/176k path, with the other 8 bits used to tell the DAC it is DSD (as opposed to PCM). 
* DoP is USB only.  Wrong.  This protocol can be used (and is used in firewire in the Mytek for example) on any signal path that accepts 24/176k.
* DoP is for DSD64, not DSD128.  Wrong.  The latest DoP v1.1 spec allows for 2X DSD (aka DSD128, named as its sample rate is 128 times more than 16/44 redbook) for DACs that acccept 24/352k and/or accept dual wire AES.  DSD128 is not readily available in downloaded recordings or SACD rips, but it is the defacto format for Korg recordings, etc...often used for vinyl archiving.
* DoP isn't available yet.  Wrong!  I personally have 3 DACs that accept and use DoP (and have been using it for 6 months) and there are several others.  Meitner (MA-1, MA-2) EMM Labs (DAC2X), Mytek (Stereo 192-DSD), eXD/Sonore DSD DAC, mSB (announced), dCS (announced and possibly shipping), Twisted PEar, to name a few.  There are several DAC chips that accept DSD but require either hardware or software (firmware) changes to activate.  The popular ESS SABRE chip (family) is one of these.
* DoP is all that is needed.  Wrong.  Your DAC needs to be DSD-capable, not just capable of converting DSD to PCM.  Although DSD converted to 24 bit PCM sounds ok, it ain't the real thing, and I've found it to be harsh in some chip architectures.

catastrofe

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Re: dCS to implement DSD over USB
« Reply #8 on: 5 Aug 2012, 04:54 pm »
Ted, great summary.  Another question...

I believe Pure Music outputs a native (non DoP) DSD stream.  If that's correct, then in order for a DAC to play the file, it's either "native" DSD capable, or it performs some type of conversion internally (most likely to DoP).  Is this an accurate understanding?

ted_b

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Re: dCS to implement DSD over USB
« Reply #9 on: 5 Aug 2012, 05:04 pm »
Ted, great summary.  Another question...

I believe Pure Music outputs a native (non DoP) DSD stream.  If that's correct, then in order for a DAC to play the file, it's either "native" DSD capable, or it performs some type of conversion internally (most likely to DoP).  Is this an accurate understanding?

PM uses DoP (or ASIO if Windows driver allows) which is native.  I helped Rob troubleshoot it.  In the preferences you tell it what the DAC is (i.e it copies the DAC driver info into the DSD section) and then you choose the DoP marker (for example, AAAA or 05FA).  The DAC sees the music, the marker protocol, and away it goes.

The screen grabs from below are older (when PM needed the user to do the copying, which is automagic now) but you'll see the DoP marker radio buttons on the second screen, under "copy current output...."