Dan Banquer IC Review

Xi-Trum · « **Reply #20 on:** 4 Apr 2003, 12:58 pm »

Carlman, if you're thinking about a group buy of this cable, please sign me up.

Carlman · « **Reply #21 on:** 4 Apr 2003, 02:29 pm »

I'm not going to start the group buy but, I'm suggesting others could.

I bought the few feet I needed from Dan. I think you'd need about 5 people to make it worthwhile... don't forget you still need terminations. I just happened to have a few lying around... so, I didn't factor that into my cost.

Good luck,
Carl

Carlman · « **Reply #22 on:** 9 Apr 2003, 03:02 am »

I have tested these cables for the past week or 2 and have been extremely happy with them. They present a lot of detail without being overly bright or harsh. They have a nice liveliness and pace. They do nothing to alter the sound. A very nice, neutral, uncolored cable.

For my testing, I used an Arcam Alpha 8 CD player, which has 2 RCA outs and a digital out. I also used a modified Museatex DAC. The preamp is an Audible Illusions 2-D, amp is an AKSA 100 w/ Nirvana upgrade, and speakers are Revel F30's.

I initially connected one of the RCA CD outputs from my Arcam player with Dan's IC's to the preamp. I also connected my Kimber PBJ's to the other output to a second input on my preamp. Switching back and forth revealed a little better detail and a little better imaging.

I then received my DAC that had been being modified by John Wright. (Museatex bitstream, now a 'Data II') I then connected Dan's cables to the DAC. It was a very revealing, accurate combination.

I now had the PBJ's connected from the Arcam to preamp and the Beldenators from DAC to preamp. Switching back and forth was very obvious. Big soundstage, height, accuracy... all the things a good DAC will do. I had great imaging and a super accurate realism with the Beldenators... when I switched back to the PBJ's directly on the Arcam, things were just more digital sounding, flatter imaging, and less real sounding, as expected.

I then put the 'Beldenators' on the Arcam to pre-amp connection and the PBJ's on the DAC. The differences between the DAC and the Arcam weren't nearly as apparent. I could hear the digital nature of the CD player but, that's about the only big difference. The soundstage wasn't as well-organized and the music accuracy suffered through the Kimber's compared to the Beldenators. I've now disconnected Dan's cables to prepare to ship them to the next reviewer.... and now my PBJ's seem a little fatiguing.

I finally found a cable that sounds signifigantly better than PBJ for the same or less money. I bought enough cable to make all I need and an extra 1 or 2. I can't wait to get them built and installed. Great cables.

Thanks for the opportunity to try these.

-Carl

P.S. Whoever is next please IM me, I will send the cables to you.

Dan Banquer · « **Reply #23 on:** 9 Apr 2003, 12:11 pm »

Thanks for taking the time to review the cables. Brad never really got the chance to review this due to some equipment problems he had. If Brad has his system up and running I would guess he is next. If not, then Tyson has shown interest in reviewing the cables.

audiojerry · « **Reply #24 on:** 9 Apr 2003, 02:45 pm »

Carlman,
I too owned the PBJ's a few years back. As my equipment improved along with my critical listening skills, I learned how badly the PBJ's performed in comparison to better cables. I don't know how long you've been involved in this hobby, or how far you will take the upgrade trail, but you will learn that cables can make a big difference as your gear becomes more resolving, as you have already discovered by moving up to DB's Belden cable.

Carlman · « **Reply #25 on:** 9 Apr 2003, 03:35 pm »

I've been testing all kinds of things lately. One thing that I changed that improved my system resolution was new tubes in my pre-amp. It dropped the noise floor to near 0 and revealed detail that was previously masked by the old tubes. I don't particularly care for the sonic signature of these tubes but, they're better than the worn out Bugle Boys they replaced.

With the first IC's I compared, I initially noticed a big difference going from (Audioquest Diamonback and Copperhead) to (Kimber PBJ's and KC-1). I thought wow, how great, I'll buy some Kimber speaker cable too...

So, I eventually bought Kimber's 4TC. It's OK but, not ideal. I also have some Canare quad cable with nice Cardas spades and some Audio Magic Extreme. The Audio Magic seems to sound the best to me so far. The 4TC makes the imaging have a little more depth but, at the expense of musical accuracy. I can fix imaging by rearranging my room... I can't fix inaccurate sounds. The Canare is a little too fast and seems to overload my ear somehow...?

I've been toying around with this hobby for about 5 years but, got really serious about it in the past year or so. Having a steady job has helped me go from hi-fi appreciator to hi-fi enthusiast. I also don't like throwing away money on things that don't make a difference. I analyze differences in my system and am very objective about it.

I'll take any opportunity I can get to review a product for free... Thanks again!

-Carl

Tyson · « **Reply #26 on:** 28 Apr 2003, 06:06 pm »

Below is an excerpt from the get-together at brad b's, consisting of me, brad, Jason [Pez], and Mike [mgalusha]:

On to the Beldinator's - Mike and Jason looked them over, they both commented that they were well built and used better construction and parts than many of the so-called high-end cables we've seen before. Putting them in the system, they sound not bad at all (I was suprised, I was biased against them, I'll admit - I just didn't think they would sound all that good). But they did sound good. At their price, I doubt anyone would find anything that would sound better. Then we put in the M80's, and it wasn't really a contest - the M80's are just a richer sounding, more realistic, more relaxed, but more detailed cable. But of course the M80's are ridiculously good for their price. In fact, in some ways I like the M80's a bit better than the "standard" Nitro Interconnects that Brad has. The M80's don't present quite the detail or sense of slam of the regular Nitro's, but to my ears the M80's sound more balanced and more relaxed. Of course, if Brad gets the Nitro's Cryo'd, they relax in their sound a lot, and are a better cable than the M80's, no question.

audiojerry · « **Reply #27 on:** 28 Apr 2003, 06:19 pm »

just back from vacation and back at work, so I don't have much time, but I want to comment...

I was reluctant to say anything before because the comments have been running so positive for the cable recommended by DB, and I did not want to offend anyone.

I felt the DB cable significantly underperformed the Bolder Nitro and my Zucable. I also believe that my $35/pair Canare sounded significantly better.

It's only my opinion, but supported by the results mentioned by Tyson and their gathering in CO. If you like the way the DB cable sounded, then I think you owe it to yourself to try the Bolder's, Zucable, or even the Emperical, which I haven't tried myself.

Tyson · « **Reply #28 on:** 28 Apr 2003, 06:40 pm »

I haven't heard the Canare, maybe I should check them out. I should have had Jason bring along his really cheapy Kimber's (I forgot what they were called, but we were fairly impressed with them when we demo'd them a long time ago).

Xi-Trum · « **Reply #29 on:** 28 Apr 2003, 08:57 pm »

audiojerry, I, for one, would not be offended at all.

Remember that these are comparison reviews. They should be looked at relatively and not absolutely. I find these types of review the most helpful. They help me understand where things stand relative to each other with listener preference taken into account, of course.

Cheers!

Carlman · « **Reply #30 on:** 29 Apr 2003, 12:28 pm »

Quote from: audiojerry

just back from vacation and back at work, so I don't have much time, but I want to comment...

I was reluctant to say anything before because the comments have been running so positive for the cable recommended by DB, and I did not want to offend anyone.

I felt the DB cable significantly underperformed the Bolder Nitro and my Zucable. I also believe that my $35/pair Canare sounded significantly better.

It's only my opinion, but supported by the results mentioned by Tyson and their gathering in CO. If you like the way the DB cable sounded, then I think you owe it to yourself to try the Bolder's, Zucable, or even the Emperical, which I haven't tried myself.

I KNEW it. As soon as I find something I like, it's not good enough.

I was originally going to try the M80's but, couldn't quite afford it. I'd love to demo a pair and compare them to Dan's cables. I will probably build my IC's, and then buy the M80's. If the M80's aren't signifigantly better, they'll get returned.

I bought some Canare cable that sounded awful. Maybe I didn't use the correct recipe. I bought them from Haveinc.com who did a great job terminating them. The Kimber PBJ's and KC-1's blew them away in 2 seconds. Howver, the difference in Kimber to DB's cables is subtle.. i.e. you have to really listen for it. I remember I was impressed with one aspect of my testing. I'm making a pair now to try again.... and I've got some even nicer connectors than Dan's.

Later,
Carl

ABEX · « **Reply #31 on:** 29 Apr 2003, 01:00 pm »

I tried Canare IC's also that would not hold up to Bolder's Digital. At low Volumes It drove me nuts,things were to veiled.

I recently bought recieved 2 runs.1 cryo treated the other stock which I tried. The cryo treated won out with slightly more presence.

Carlman · « **Reply #32 on:** 30 Apr 2003, 03:13 pm »

I bought some bulk 8422 cable from Dan and used DHLabs HC Alloy RCA terminations. I finished them yesterday and took a long listen last night. Very, very nice sound. Thanks for the recipe. I didn't have the energy to switch back and forth last night but, the system is working for me. I know they're better than Kimber PBJ or KC-1. They bumped up the realism of the sound a notch.

One day I'll compare them to Bolder M80's. I promised no purchasing for a month. I'm tired of cabling. I'm ready to just sit back and enjoy it for a while.

-Carl

ABEX · « **Reply #33 on:** 30 Apr 2003, 03:56 pm »

Yes,it does seem to be tedious ,changeing all the time. Sitting back and enjoying tunes.Isn't that what this suppose to be about?

Tyson · « **Reply #34 on:** 30 Apr 2003, 04:35 pm »

That's why I got the M80 for my HT and the Bybee'd Nitros for my 2 channel system - I don't worry about my cabling at all any more, I just sit back and enjoy the music

Wish I would have taken the same approach to watches as I did to cabling - for the $$ I've spent on inexpensive watches, I could have had a nice TAG or Omega. Oh well, I guess I'll just have to live with my Kenneth Cole watch. . .

Carlman · « **Reply #35 on:** 30 Apr 2003, 06:43 pm »

Quote from: Tyson

That's why I got the M80 for my HT and the Bybee'd Nitros for my 2 channel system - I don't worry about my cabling at all any more, I just sit back and enjoy the music

Wish I would have taken the same approach to watches as I did to cabling - for the $$ I've spent on inexpensive watches, I could have had a nice TAG or Omega. Oh well, I guess I'll just have to live with my Kenneth Cole watch. . .

I'm glad you found 'the one' cable that works for you. I have been upgrading over time... And, since I spent most of my hifi money on the equipment, the cables did not get much budgeted. I keep hoping that I'll find some magical, super cheap answer... And so far, Dan's recipe is working for me. I have invested less than $300 total in all of my cables (PC's, IC's, digital, optical, and speaker) so far. (Including that which has been replaced!)

For me to replace just the IC's I have with M80's would cost that much again. I figure it'll be around $500 for 2 IC's, digital cable, and speaker cable. That's a lotta dough for cable. Will it be worth it? I'll find out the next time I have an extra $500 lying around.

I think the watch analogy is good. Expensive stuff breaks, gets lost, and doesn't tell time any better than a Timex.

Carlman · « **Reply #36 on:** 21 May 2003, 08:23 pm »

Just a quick update... The Beldenators that I made using DHLabs connectors are excellent for the money. ($20/pair)
I compared them to a pair of Bolder M80's (after I connected them in the correct direction and let them burn in for a week). Initially, I had them connected backwards and gave a mini-review here on AC somewhere.

The bottom line:
The Bolder's sounded as if they had slightly better height and instrument placement. The M80 was about 5-10% better than the Beldenator in imaging only. (in my system, to my ears, in my crappy room) I only had 1 pair fo M80's so, the pre-amp connection was still Belden... which could have limited my results but, I don't know by how much.

What now?
The Beldenators are still in my system and I am now using some cheap speaker cable. I'm selling all of my cable (some is already sold) and my CD player to fund a couple of different things... I am going to buy all one brand of cable, change my transport, and add some sound treatments to the room. While the Beldenators hold a special place in my heart, I want to experiment with one last brand. I'll post separate reviews for future findings.

ABEX · « **Reply #37 on:** 21 May 2003, 09:53 pm »

I have been experienceing with one brand of cable running through it and the results are positive. ALthough I still believe vertain junctures still can be improved on by having the correct synergy between component and cable used.

I had a real intresting thing happen awhile back while trying to have all the same IC's in my system. I intended to use Canare LV77S between the CDP to DAC to Passive Controller because of it's low Impedance charcteristics. I also put a run between the Pre and amp. While there were no issues when using it between the amp to Passive Pre. From DAC to Passive & CDP to DAC It had a signature of veiling vocals at low listening levels. I have since eliminated it from my system.A waste of time and money except for one important point. It is not always going to have a negative effect at some points in a system ,but can be Components and point dependant.

At present I have wired my whole system with 47Labs OTA Cable. If anyone says that you don't get enough out of OTA for the $$ they have to be nuts!I have my 3-ways Internal wired with it with outboard XO's wired to them and enough to make up my runs of IC's (with the exception of using Cryo'd Belden Digital). I also had the cable wired to my Tweeters, Cryo'd OTA.

The point of this post was to say that it is where you put cables sometimes matters as much as the type.You might get better results at switching cables between points if you feel you are not getting good results at others.

Other cables I would like to try are Eichmanns new IC's and Bogdan Silvers. For moderately priced stuff the Bogdans seem worth consideration.

I have no qualms with the Cryo'd Belden Digital IC I am using.

Happy listening!

scottpretti · « **Reply #38 on:** 27 May 2003, 09:49 pm »

I found this on the belden site. 8422 Non-Paired - Microphone and Musical Instrument Cable. Is this the cable to use? I'm going to DIY some and do a test when I get my m-80 from Bolder. Are the shields used in the construction of the cable or are they left unconnected? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Tyson · « **Reply #39 on:** 27 May 2003, 10:14 pm »

BTW, I have the beldenators, and I have a "BUNCH" of other cables at my house right now. This weekend I'm going to do a shootout amongst all of them and report my results before sending the beldenators on. Who's next on the list, anyway?