Clayton is not done....

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FullRangeMan

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Re: Clayton is not done....
« Reply #20 on: 26 Oct 2023, 03:17 am »
Impressive acting👏 marketing is not everything but it is 100%, he followed the whole script.

Early B.

Re: Clayton is not done....
« Reply #21 on: 26 Oct 2023, 03:21 am »
I have similar thoughts. This whole scenario seems a bit unstable. How is it that the person who owned Spatial felt the need to leave his own company to start a new one and offer a product that appears to be essentially the same? I also wonder how Spatial will survive without the creative force behind the company and who is now apparently competing against it.

The new owners apparently didn't buy Clayton, they bought Spatial Audio.

Look guys -- Spatial Audio is obviously pursuing a different segment of the market. Geez, they're about to sell $20K tube monos. :o Do you think they're overly concerned about speakers at the $2,950 level?

Besides, what some of you are referring to as competition is a good thing. Three months after the launch, you'll see Clayton's entry-level speakers hit the used market, and guess what these owners will want to replace them with?

A McDonalds franchisee doesn't care if Burger King opens up across the street. My point is -- look at the situation from different perspectives and see how this can be good for everyone, especially the consumer.   

     

Daryl Zero

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Re: Clayton is not done....
« Reply #22 on: 26 Oct 2023, 03:48 am »
WOW! Clayton does this all the time, starts a company (Emerald) sells it, then starts a new one (Spaital)sells it, and now sells Spatial Audio, he within weeks starts a new company up, while many of us are left holding the bag with speakers where there may not be parts and he's sold and moved on. Fool me once, fool me twice.

Well, I'm thinking he is going to undercut Spatial's Q6 and also probably make the prices of used Spatial speakers drop.

JackD

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Re: Clayton is not done....
« Reply #23 on: 26 Oct 2023, 05:06 am »
Before you guys keep jumping up and down about Clayton's new venture you might want to consider what has happened over the last several years to him and other small audio companies including several others who were a part of this forum.  The parts supply issues caused him to have to discontinue a large part of his lineup and those he could still get parts for saw delays in production and shipping.  On top of that there were his well documented medical issues and the bills that came with that.  During all of this the Company bills for rent, utilities, insurance and payroll kept coming.  Maybe in the end he sold Spatial not because he wanted to but because financially he had to.  If the sale allowed him to clear some of the debt to the point of being able to start fresh then good for him.  As has been the case for the 50+ years I've been in this hobby if you don't want to worry about your gear manufacturer going under or selling out then don't buy from a small business like most of the sponsors on this site. Things change and parts go out of production and that's a risk you have to learn to live with.  If your enjoyment of Spatial speakers is based solely on Clayton being around then you bought from the wrong company just like all the Salk owners among others we all can name. Speakers don't just stop working on their own and when they do it's usually user error not parts failure.  I've got multiple pairs of speakers from the 70's-80's that still work as expected because they have never been abused.  Audio gear is worse than cars so if you can't afford the reduced market value then don't buy it new.

Letitroll98

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Re: Clayton is not done....
« Reply #24 on: 26 Oct 2023, 11:00 am »
As a former business owner who's been through more than one sale of a company if Shaw is allowed to continue with this venture the attorneys for the purchasers of Spatial Audio should be sued for malpractice.  You gotta be completely nuts not to have an iron clad no complete contract.  Of course the problem with no complete contracts is they're without consequences.  The remedy for those injured by former employees or owners is usually to bleed them dry with law suits, one assumes there's not even that provision in this sale.  I'm open to any and all explanations here as I have zero information on the terms of sale, but on the face of it I'm highly suspicious of the whole situation.

Early B.

Re: Clayton is not done....
« Reply #25 on: 26 Oct 2023, 12:11 pm »
As a former business owner who's been through more than one sale of a company if Shaw is allowed to continue with this venture the attorneys for the purchasers of Spatial Audio should be sued for malpractice.  You gotta be completely nuts not to have an iron clad no complete contract.  Of course the problem with no complete contracts is they're without consequences.  The remedy for those injured by former employees or owners is usually to bleed them dry with law suits, one assumes there's not even that provision in this sale.  I'm open to any and all explanations here as I have zero information on the terms of sale, but on the face of it I'm highly suspicious of the whole situation.

If you're a business owner with decades of success in a niche industry, would you agree to a non-compete clause? NO! Because it's your livelihood we're talking about. You will never agree to cut off your ability to survive. And if the new owners demanded a non-compete, the sale of the company would increase dramatically because they'd have to pay you to either retire or find something else to do. There's no free lunch.

The fact that we're talking about Spatial right now is good PR for them. 

Jon L

Re: Clayton is not done....
« Reply #26 on: 26 Oct 2023, 12:13 pm »
I also wonder how Spatial will survive without the creative force behind the company and who is now apparently competing against it.

The thrifty shopper awaits the massive firesale, similar to the Emerald Physics firesale  :D

Tangram

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Re: Clayton is not done....
« Reply #27 on: 26 Oct 2023, 12:17 pm »
A couple of things:

1) Clayton sold the business to friends/colleagues. I highly doubt that, several weeks after the sale, he’s violated the terms of the agreement. Rather, I suspect he has the blessing of Spatial to pursue the lower end of the OB market. His new speaker is half the price of the Q6. Plus, Clayton is a good-meaning guy who has had a spate of bad luck. Doing something he shouldn’t seems out of character.

2) I disagree that buying from small companies, we should expect to be left holding the bag down the road. By most industry standards, the vast majority of audio manufacturers ARE small businesses, including the ones that have been around for decades, like Vandersteen and Magnepan. Even Pass Labs is a small company. It uses exotic transistors in some designs, some of which are out of production. BUT, they have a huge inventory of spares if needed. If audiophiles avoided “small” companies, there wouldn’t be a high end market.


Early B.

Re: Clayton is not done....
« Reply #28 on: 26 Oct 2023, 12:51 pm »
2) I disagree that buying from small companies, we should expect to be left holding the bag down the road. By most industry standards, the vast majority of audio manufacturers ARE small businesses, including the ones that have been around for decades, like Vandersteen and Magnepan. Even Pass Labs is a small company. It uses exotic transistors in some designs, some of which are out of production. BUT, they have a huge inventory of spares if needed. If audiophiles avoided “small” companies, there wouldn’t be a high end market.

Yep. If you're an audiophile, there's a 99% chance that some or all of your gear was sold by small companies. High-quality parts for niche markets are typically built in small batches and subject to change. Big companies skimp on parts quality for a lot of reasons, one of which is availability and that's OK. If big is what you want, go buy Polk or Sony or Bose products.   

jtwrace

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Re: Clayton is not done....
« Reply #29 on: 26 Oct 2023, 02:02 pm »
Capitalism is awesome! :green:

Mr. Big

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Re: Clayton is not done....
« Reply #30 on: 26 Oct 2023, 02:48 pm »
By law, parts must be available for 7 years to take care of repairs for units sold.

Mr. Big

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Re: Clayton is not done....
« Reply #31 on: 26 Oct 2023, 03:07 pm »
Yep. If you're an audiophile, there's a 99% chance that some or all of your gear was sold by small companies. High-quality parts for niche markets are typically built in small batches and subject to change. Big companies skimp on parts quality for a lot of reasons, one of which is availability and that's OK. If big is what you want, go buy Polk or Sony or Bose products.   

I worked for Sony, and they do not skimp on parts quality. In fact, parts used in our ES series from the late '80s-'90s were 10 years ahead of small manufacturers, and to look inside on the 1st SACD player SCD1 you would see a built quality that's never been equaled. Parts should be available for 7 years, if one part is no longer available then a replacement in this case a tweeter should be available. Clayton starts and sells his companies then moves on and starts another and washes his hands of any ongoing issues to customers who entrusted their money into his products. It's not normal for a company to say geez we are a small company the product you purchased from us is not repairable, sorry, Ask McIntosh about that, they fix products from 30 years ago. Now that is a good company to spend your money with and why they still are #1 today in sales along with customer loyalty. Not a fly-by-night company, you can bet Clayton will sell his new company ASAP, that is his track record, once it gets off the ground and makes lots of sales and its sales value goes up. When I think about it, he's back making the same speakers. So why sell just to make the same speaker with a different name?

Early B.

Re: Clayton is not done....
« Reply #32 on: 26 Oct 2023, 04:10 pm »
When I think about it, he's back making the same speakers. So why sell just to make the same speaker with a different name?

That's precisely how it works in the real world. It's a successful marketing strategy. For instance, many generic brands are identical to the name brands -- same thing, different name, different price points for a different market segment. Clayton will eventually offer more products and raise prices, and once he reaches a saturation point, he could start the process all over again and he'll have the capital to do so from the sale of the company. There's minimal risk because he's amassed a following for his products. The new speaker will likely sell quite well.   

77SunsetStrip

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Re: Clayton is not done....
« Reply #33 on: 26 Oct 2023, 04:17 pm »
By law, parts must be available for 7 years to take care of repairs for units sold.

Good luck with that.  Pandemic caused supply chain collapse made that unenforceable for any size company. 

Straight from a Labor Law expert, very few non-compete clauses are actually enforceable.  An individual's ability to earn a living cannot be denied.   

RonN5

Re: Clayton is not done....
« Reply #34 on: 26 Oct 2023, 06:40 pm »
I have no doubt that Spatial/Clayton had a reasonable replacement stockpile but could not have anticipated the move by Peerless.

And, I know at least one person who had no problem getting replacement tweeters from Spatial....before Peerless stopped supplying them in reasonable quantities.

For me, the "bad guy" here, if there is one, is Peerless....but the reality is that it's not just audio that has these problems...look at all the "press" that Samsung is getting on yahoo and elsewhere for not standing behind their refrigerators...and this is a big company with lots of money that makes a lot of its own parts.

Tyson

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Re: Clayton is not done....
« Reply #35 on: 26 Oct 2023, 07:09 pm »
It's not like Spatial is going out of business.  They will be around to support the current speaker owners.

Vedder323

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Re: Clayton is not done....
« Reply #36 on: 26 Oct 2023, 09:29 pm »
It's not like Spatial is going out of business.  They will be around to support the current speaker owners.

The voice of reason.

Mr. Big

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Re: Clayton is not done....
« Reply #37 on: 26 Oct 2023, 11:49 pm »
I have no doubt that Spatial/Clayton had a reasonable replacement stockpile but could not have anticipated the move by Peerless.

And, I know at least one person who had no problem getting replacement tweeters from Spatial....before Peerless stopped supplying them in reasonable quantities.

For me, the "bad guy" here, if there is one, is Peerless....but the reality is that it's not just audio that has these problems...look at all the "press" that Samsung is getting on yahoo and elsewhere for not standing behind their refrigerators...and this is a big company with lots of money that makes a lot of its own parts.

Then Spatial could Easily offer a new replacement tweeter even if it is not peerless. Like all manufacturers have to do, they state that newer parts can be substituted at any time. I've not heard Spatial step up yet and state this for their buyers which is why you see speakers on the market week after week now, folks are dumping them in fear of being stuck with them.

Mr. Big

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Re: Clayton is not done....
« Reply #38 on: 26 Oct 2023, 11:57 pm »
NRD I have no trust in because he puts others down the major magazines etc. Calls them corrupt etc., how does he know that? They are a business, and they do what any business does, and they have been around a lot longer than Ron will ever be. 2nd Ron is a fanboy of Clayton and that is fine, but for him to say the $2,800 speaker beats the Sapphires is not even responsible, if so then Clayton overpriced his speakers. Give Clayton 6 Months then he will have a whole slew of designs out at the same price points as Spatial.  I wish Clayton success he makes a good speaker. But his starting and selling all the time leaves me cold as well as his customers. 

El Tio

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Re: Clayton is not done....
« Reply #39 on: 27 Oct 2023, 01:31 am »
I think you made your point