Wolf Ear Audio is coming out with the Kitoki v3 soon.

SDMF_Mark · « **on:** 8 Dec 2021, 05:49 am »

I will probably get one.

Mark

rockadanny · « **Reply #1 on:** 11 Jan 2022, 05:08 pm »

Their v2 states Frequency Response: 30Hz-20kHz.
Does that mean I won't hear any freqs below 30Hz even thought my speakers are good to 20Hz?

SDMF_Mark · « **Reply #2 on:** 11 Jan 2022, 05:18 pm »

Quote from: rockadanny on 11 Jan 2022, 05:08 pm

Their v2 states Frequency Response: 30Hz-20kHz.
Does that mean I won't hear any freqs below 30Hz even thought my speakers are good to 20Hz?

The version 3 fixes this. It is now greater than 20hz-80khz.

I ordered one.

planet10 · « **Reply #3 on:** 12 Jan 2022, 08:22 pm »

That is quite an acheivement if he is getting that bandwidth out of the OPTs.

What are the speakers that get to 20?

dave

opnly bafld · « **Reply #4 on:** 12 Jan 2022, 08:26 pm »

PAP trio 15s are his (rockadanny) new speakers.

planet10 · « **Reply #5 on:** 12 Jan 2022, 08:42 pm »

The big OB with swapable panels?

dave

rockadanny · « **Reply #6 on:** 12 Jan 2022, 10:09 pm »

Yes, PAP Trio15 Horn1 speakers. I am measuring +-0dB 25Hz, -4dB 22.5 Hz, -7dB 20Hz in my room.

planet10 · « **Reply #7 on:** 12 Jan 2022, 10:56 pm »

A lot of EQ to get that low i expect.

A F(-3) of 30 Hz will not likely be an issue with getting low.

First it is meaningless in human ear/brain terms (ref Toole), you need to look at F6 at a min.

What does the impedance look like? That is likely a much greater issue.

And i wonder how well such widely spacd 15s can reach high enuff to reach the horn (looks like 800Hz?). I always considered 350 Hz as pushing the top on a 15”.

dave

Tyson · « **Reply #8 on:** 12 Jan 2022, 11:14 pm »

Quote from: planet10 on 12 Jan 2022, 10:56 pm

A lot of EQ to get that low i expect.

A F(-3) of 30 Hz will not likely be an issue with getting low.

First it is meaningless in human ear/brain terms (ref Toole), you need to look at F6 at a min.

What does the impedance look like? That is likely a much greater issue.

And i wonder how well such widely spacd 15s can reach high enuff to reach the horn (looks like 800Hz?). I always considered 350 Hz as pushing the top on a 15”.

dave

Gee, what a nice post, crapping all over someone's new speaker purchase.

planet10 · « **Reply #9 on:** 12 Jan 2022, 11:34 pm »

Crapping? It is all true.

Just pointing out the compromises it has made. Might well help with better system tuning.

These originally were shipped with a FR/widerange in the middle. That made a whole lot more sense (to me) than a horn as far as XO point goes, and that you (sort of) have dipole over the entire spectrum..

Let me point out another compromsise, OB below the XO, quite narrow, forward only dispersion above.

But i matters not at all if the listener is connected to the music by the system.

dave

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #10 on:** 12 Jan 2022, 11:56 pm »

Wow that Audio Mirrors looks nice.

SDMF_Mark · « **Reply #11 on:** 13 Jan 2022, 01:46 am »

Could we stay on topic please?

planet10 · « **Reply #12 on:** 13 Jan 2022, 04:19 am »

It sort of is.

A lumpy impedance will interact with the highish R_out, and a lot of EQ at the bottom can be done a couple ways. If accomplished with highQ woofers (the first of these used the Eminence Alpha 15) the EQ is in the natural response of the woofer. If it is active then there are more demands on amplifier power. I suspect the former. Also makes sense if they have a passive XO, otherwise you would be throwing away the sensitivity of the horn (what is it loading?).

dave

Tyson · « **Reply #13 on:** 13 Jan 2022, 04:49 am »

Ah you are right Dave, I didn't realize the Kitoki was a 5 watt SEP with no feedback. Yeah, impedance is going to matter with an amp like that.

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #14 on:** 13 Jan 2022, 04:59 am »

As I have saying this is another case where a 16 ohms speaker performs better than an 8 ohms. In the hey days of small tube amps the rule was 16 ohms speakers for a good reason that was neglected today.

SDMF_Mark · « **Reply #15 on:** 13 Jan 2022, 05:36 am »

Quote from: Tyson on 13 Jan 2022, 04:49 am

Ah you are right Dave, I didn't realize the Kitoki was a 5 watt SEP with no feedback. Yeah, impedance is going to matter with an amp like that.

output impedance is 1.5

planet10 · « **Reply #16 on:** 13 Jan 2022, 06:38 am »

So about the same as bridged ACA or a lowish output impedance 300B.

dave

SDMF_Mark · « **Reply #17 on:** 13 Jan 2022, 06:50 am »

Here's the full spec list of V3.

Power Supply: tube rectified (5y3) with two choke filters and film capacitors
Driver Stage: one dual triode vacuum tube(6SN7) with one section for each channel
Output Stage: two pentode (wired as a single ended triode) vacuum tubes (6v6), one per channel for the speaker output with taps for 4 and 8 ohms
Power Output: About 2.5 watts per channel
Output Impedance: ~1.5 ohms
Volume Control: Alps Blue Velvet Potentiometer
Frequency Response: greater than 20hz-80khz
Chassis: New production chassis similar to the Makoyi headphone amp (the copper vein version)
Design Notes: this amplifier uses constant current sources to bias each stage as linearly as possible while also not using any negative feedback in the design so that the amp produces a very natural, low distortion sound with a full frequency response.
This amp would only use high quality film caps throughout the build.
The price would be 1600USD for this version

planet10 · « **Reply #18 on:** 13 Jan 2022, 07:55 am »

Thanx

Quote

This amp would only use high quality film caps throughout the build.

IME something that makes a big difference.

dave

SDMF_Mark · « **Reply #19 on:** 13 Jan 2022, 07:59 am »

Quote from: planet10 on 13 Jan 2022, 07:55 am

Thanx

IME something that makes a big difference.

dave

I upgraded the caps in the signal path to Dueland Copper Foil capacitors.