[jzexport]

I've been a long time Merlin VSM speaker owner, starting with the original SE, and getting several upgrades but not the latest lead-free version.

I hadn't heard about Salk speakers until I came across this Circle, but have now read about them here and on AVSFORUM. Both brands seem to have a passionate, staunchly loyal following.

From what I read the Salks and the Merlins share many of the same attributes - clarity, openess, transparancy, dynamics, imaging.

I'd like to hear a comparison from those that have heard both. Of course, the Merlin's have a much higher MSRP than the Salks, except for the SoundScape. But, let's leave the price aspect out of the discussion and just limit it to sonics.

I know Salk has a line of speakers, where there is only a single Merlin VSM. So, not sure if the comparison should be limited to maybe the HT2 because the VSMs are 2-way. But, I'd like to know how the VSM compares to the HT3, too, even if it's not right to compare a 2-way with a 3-way. With Merlin's BAM, the low frequency specs are similar to the HT3 so it's not off the mark that way.

Finally, pardon me if this, a circle on Salk, is not an appropriate place to post a topic like this. But, within Audio Circle, I couldn't find a better place. Let me know where I should move it, if it's out of place.

[rbwalt]

i am a long time merlin owner. i have the vsm mxe's ( lead free) with the master bam and new rc's. all i can say is wow!!! stay with the merlins. get yours upgraded along with the new master bam and rc's. it will be worth it!!!! please feel free to check out my system under R ( rbwalt). i do not know if you are anywhere near northern va. you are welcome to come have a listen. in the mean time i will see what i can come up with about the salks vs. merlin vsm's.

rob.

[jzexport]

i am a long time merlin owner. i have the vsm mxe's ( lead free) with the master bam and new rc's. all i can say is wow!!! stay with the merlins. get yours upgraded along with the new master bam and rc's. it will be worth it!!!! please feel free to check out my system under R ( rbwalt). i do not know if you are anywhere near northern va. you are welcome to come have a listen. in the mean time i will see what i can come up with about the salks vs. merlin vsm's.

rob.

Thanks for the offer, Rob.

For now, this is more of an intellectual exercise. I also have three Merlin TSMs for center and surrounds, so it would certainly cost $$$ to switch that I doubt I could justify. The Merlins do sound great. I certainly didn't mean to imply otherwise. Still, you never know.

I've IDed a Salk HT3 owner here in Pittsburgh, but haven't reached out to him to see if he'd let me come to listen. That would be the best for me. Or to get to AKFest this weekend in Detroit, but that's not going to happen.

As to the lead-free VSMs, I'll PM you as I do not want this to turn into a Merlin thread.

[rbwalt]

i understand. what vsm's do you have?

rob.

[Tone Depth]

A comparison between two manufacturer's speakers would probably be more appropriate in the Critic's Circle Loudspeaker subcircle.

Finally, pardon me if this, a circle on Salk, is not an appropriate place to post a topic like this. But, within Audio Circle, I couldn't find a better place. Let me know where I should move it, if it's out of place.

[fsimms]

A comparison between two manufacturer's speakers would probably be more appropriate in the Critic's Circle Loudspeaker subcircle.

Maybe, but since there are so few Salk owners, I wonder how many reponses he would get if he didn't go to where they are hiding out.

Bob

[GhostintheToast]

Seems like a legitimate discussion and I'm curious what the results would be.   It's too bad you can't compare them side-by-side.

As far as aesthetics are concerned, I'm saying point Salk.

[avahifi]

What, pray tell, is a Merlin Super BAM?  $3600 for ???

Frank Van Alstine

[mcullinan]

I have the VSM MXs and have heard the Salks. They are both very beautiful speakers. Bob of Merlin uses Car finishes rather than natural wood. And they are totally different sounding speakers, so Im not sure how effective a comparison would be. Both great sounding speakers too (Those being the Song Towers & HT3s). lol.
M

[srb]

What, pray tell, is a Merlin Super BAM?  $3600 for ???

Bass Augmentation Module:
The BAM effectively extends the low-frequency response of the VSM in a phase and amplitude correct manner to –4 dB at 30Hz with no alteration to the rest of the speaker’s exceptionally flat frequency response or musical characteristics. The BAM has the same exceptional internal parts found in the VSMs themselves, further ensuring that the qualities of the VSM will not be harmed in any way. It also includes a battery based power supply, which removes the last vestiges of any electronic signature from the BAM’s performance. The BAM is easily inserted in the signal path between preamp and power amp or in any suitable tape loop.
 
There doesn't appear to be any BAMs that aren't "super".  I'm not sure exactly what it is - is it a battery powered active fixed frequency bass boost tone control?  For $3600?
 
Steve

[GhostintheToast]

I'm not sure exactly what it is - is it a battery powered active fixed frequency bass boost tone control?  For $3600?

great marketing!

[GhostintheToast]

I am personally waiting on the BAM-BAM SUPA-SLAM OR the WHAM-BAM-THANK-YOU-MAM. 

Both are expected out later this year for a mere $5100 and $6969 respectively.

[poseidonsvoice]

What, pray tell, is a Merlin Super BAM?  $3600 for ???

Frank Van Alstine

Frank,

Read here and here. His choice in parts has made his costs skyrocket ($900 for some capacitors alone ) and his fear of adding a subwoofer system (i.e. multiple subs which is the most ideal way to deal with room modal issues) along with his insistence on extending the LF cutoff of the modified Scan Speak 8545 driver in order to compensate for a lack of low end heft has resulted in all these new BAM like products. It's one way of extending the bass of your system but it can never sound surreal in the low end like a system with multiple bass sources at high spl levels. Nor will it deal with room modal issues. What will happen over time is the voice coil will heat up, xmax will constantly be pushed to its limits and you will get distortion. Piston area cannot be replaced.  But it is Bobby Palkovic's choice and I respect that. It's just as important to be informed of the compromises that's all  .

Now back to topic, who has compared Salks and Merlins?

Anand.

[fsimms]

I have just heard Merlins at shows, but I think the most comparable speakers in the Salk line are the Archo's and the Pharo's.  I thought the Merlins were fine but I was more impressed with the Salks.  Just a first impression on all so don't put much weight in this comment.

Bob

[DaveC113]

What will happen over time is the voice coil will heat up, xmax will constantly be pushed to its limits and you will get distortion.

Anand.

Yeah, if you listen at max volume for extended periods of time. I do that.... um, never.

Every speaker is compromised somehow, and a Merlin sub system would cost a small fortune if they were designed the same way as the speakers.

I don't own Merlins, I'm a single driver fan... but if I could afford Merlins they are one of a VERY few multi way speakers in the $10k and under range I'd trade for my single drivers. Even though there are a lot of choices at $10k, I think the Merlins are a good value for the money, and one of the best speakers I've heard at any price.

Some may scoff at the BAM, I was certainly skeptical BEFORE I heard them. I seriously doubt you'd be critical AFTER hearing them. 

I've heard Salks too. I didn't get to play my own material because the room was pretty busy. From what I heard, I agree with mcullinan, they are very different. I usually don't like ribbon tweeters, but I'd have to hear the Salks in better circumstances to make a decent comparison and be able to tell if Salk's ribbon tweeter would annoy me over time. 

[avahifi]

So then it appears that the BAM is a sophisticated active bass boost circuit with over 5 dB of boost at about 35 Hz.

This of course then requires nearly four times the power from your amplifier at the boost frequency as it does over the rest of the range. (A three dB boost requires double power, another 3 dB double again). If your amp is just loud enough for the speakers without the BAM, perhaps you should be thinking about a much more powerful amplifier to use the BAM without clipping your amp.

My observation is that you can get one hell of a good amplifier for any Salk speaker for much less than the cost of a BAM.  Heck you can get the Salk speakers and the amplifier too for that price.

As an engineer pretty decent at costing things out in the real world, I really wonder about the cost effectiveness of any of the high priced little thingies out there, except for my Rolex of course. 

Best regards,

Frank Van Alstine

[DMurphy]

As an engineer pretty decent at costing things out in the real world, I really wonder about the cost effectiveness of any of the high priced little thingies out there, except for my Rolex of course. 

And your Audi.   

[jzexport]

Wow. After so many days of quiescence, a surge of responses. Glad I checked back.

DaveC133 and mcullinan report the Salks sounding different than the Merlins, but without being specific. Care to elaborate?

As for the BAM, it has been properly described here. Avahifi noted potential amp overload problems. I may have experienced that. I had a 125 wpc tube amp that was causing me tube failures. While I believe the core issue was imbalanced quads, the designer thought I was over driving the amp and pointed fingers at the BAM. This is an image of the voltage response of the BAM by frequency. Note the reference level is 2V, so the peak is maybe 1.4V above that. This is an old BAM from before the capacity of the rechargable batteries were increased. As an aside, I built my own battery supply for it, and got rid of its regulators. Don't know how the specs may have changed. This version uses Hovland Musicaps, Caddock resistors and a defaced unity gain opamp in the signal path.



I got away from using the BAM because of the aforementioned amp problem. I now have a much higher power SS amp (Digital Amplifier Company's Cherry Plus), but do not run the BAM because it is single ended and my connections now are all balanced. Not using the BAM flies strongly in the face of Bobby P's design intention. He strongly believes it to be an integral part of the design. I am using the VSMs with a single sub with the crossover at 50 or 60 (not at home to check). I will likely go with a second sub. I am also thinking of replicating the BAM to allow it to be used balanced so I can decide whether or not I am better of with it or without it. I guess it will cost under $200 per channel if I keep to Hovland caps and leave out the rechargeable batteries.

It's actually this 'do I need the BAM or not?', that has me thinking about the whole scheme and whether to look elsewhere.

GhostintheToast, what is a BAM-BAM SUPA-SLAM OR the WHAM-BAM-THANK-YOU-MAM. Bobby has been talking about making accompanying woofer modules for the VSM since almost day one. That was a decade ago. Even a century ago .

So, back to how do Merlins and Salks compare?

[DMurphy]

Well, no one else seems to be jumping in, so I'll report what little I know.  I've heard the Merlins a couple of times at RMAF.  I actually didn't think they were all that different from 2-way salks.  I think the Merlin gets the most possible out of those drivers, and they're excellent drivers.  The Scan 8545 is hard to beat in the bass extension and power handling department. although I do think it (the 8545) trades off a little midrange transparency and detail in the process, and I'm certainly not alone in that opinion.  The super expensive Dynaudio tweeter is considered by many to be the best dome out there period.  They are crossed at around 2200 Hz, and that's where I usually cross depending on which tweeter I'm using.  So I think the differences between the "Merlin Sound" and the "Salk Sound" are more a matter of the inherent characteristics of the drivers than anything else.  The W18 vs the 8545, ribbons vs. a dome, or the little Hiquphon 0W series vs. the larger Dynaudio (broader dispersion with the former, probably superior low-end distortion with the latter). 

[Art_Chicago]

Well, no one else seems to be jumping in, so I'll report what little I know.  I've heard the Merlins a couple of times at RMAF.  I actually didn't think they were all that different from 2-way salks.  I think the Merlin gets the most possible out of those drivers, and they're excellent drivers.  The Scan 8545 is hard to beat in the bass extension and power handling department. although I do think it (the 8545) trades off a little midrange transparency and detail in the process, and I'm certainly not alone in that opinion.  The super expensive Dynaudio tweeter is considered by many to be the best dome out there period.  They are crossed at around 2200 Hz, and that's where I usually cross depending on which tweeter I'm using.  So I think the differences between the "Merlin Sound" and the "Salk Sound" is more a matter of the inherent characteristics of the drivers than anything else.  The W18 vs the 8545, ribbons vs. a dome, or the little Hiquphon 0W series vs. the larger Dynaudio (broader dispersion with the former, probably superior low-end distortion with the latter). 

as always, Dennis, I enjoy reading your enlightened responses