[Frans]

I'm really intrigued by the comment about getting a 2 channel amp (...someone mentioned a Wyred 4 Sound ST-500).  If you do this (..using my Pioneer SC-07 as a "pre-amp"), can I run surround movies and music through the Pioneer and 2 channel sources through the 2 channel amp?

Yes. Use the Pre-outs on the Pioneer for L/R Front - send those to the monoblocks and remove the front speakers from the Pio and hook up the L/R speakers to the Wyreds.

The rest of the speakers (center, surround) stay hooked up to the Pio. Re-run MCACC (if you have it).

[vintagebob]

The two channel amp would go between the preamp section of the SC-07 and the speakers.  It would be used for all of the sources that you have hooked up to the SC-07.

If you decided later to get a dedicated 2-channel preamp, you can find them with "pass thoughs" to allow HT use.

[Austin08]

Years ago, I had a chance to listen to Aerosmith ” I don't wanna miss a thing” on a world class system - Linn table, AR electronic, Wilson Alexandria and Transparent LX cables. I though the sound was fabulous - so real. But when I think about all the money I would spend on LP and not be able to enjoy anywhere else but home that is really turn me off.  Digital is much practical, IMO. Especially, with all new technology, digital have  come a long way. Most new cds, dsd or discless material that recently make, are very good and when partner with high quality DAC, the sound was much better than what they used to be years ago. So IMO, with low price, acceptable good quality and convienient there is no reason to go back to vinyl unless I have a large LP collection at home.

[vortrex]

keep in mind the "new" and "latest technology" is not always the best.  how fun is it to drive an electric car?  I work on computers all day long.  the last thing I want to do is come home and deal with one in order to listen to music.  oh wait, I need to download this critical windows update first.  oh crap, my computer just blue screened.  let me reboot it and see what happens.  darn my hard drive just died and now I need to rip these 1000 CD's again...  there's something amazing about 100+ year old technology and that tiny needle producing such incredible sounds.  there's nothing amazing about a CD or computer doing it.

[TJHUB]

I think the single best thing you can do to improve the sound you have is to get away from the receiver for all 2-channel listening.  I have yet to hear a receiver, even used as just a preamp, that can remotely come close to the sound of dedicated 2-channel preamp/amp setup.

I need to get one of my monoblocks fixed, so I did a little testing with my receiver (an Onkyo 876).  The sound was so terrible in every way, I decided I'd rather go without listening while the amps are gone.  I'm not exaggerating here.  I had forgotten just how great a dedicated 2-channel pre/amp can sound.  I continued the experiment by testing with and without my DAC, and using the monoblocks for the power.  All of it was still awful.  There was no configuration that even came close to what I'm used to hearing. 

So my vote would go to getting a nice 2-channel preamp with home theater bypass like the Parasound 2100 (or similar), and a 2-channel amp of your choice.  Then use your receiver to power your center channel and surrounds for HT.  This is what I do, and it's the best of both worlds.

As far as sources go, vinyl is like cave carvings.  It's way too much work!  If your listening habits are to play albums all the way through, I suppose it's not so bad.  I've been streaming music since Turtle Beach launched the Audiotron (a long time).  I can't even spin CD's as it's too much work as well.  I love having access to any track in my library in seconds, and nothing beats playlists.

I admit I haven't heard a great vinyl setup, so if and when I do I may eat these words, but streaming digital is the only way to go.  I use a Logitech Touch (with some mods), an old PC running as a server in my basement, and a nice DAC.  I am VERY happy with the sound I have, and I've heard nothing better.  My digital front end was $180 for the Touch, $250 for a DIY linear power supply, $100 for a nice digital interconnect, and about $250 for the old computer with a 2TB harddrive.  That's an impressive source for about $800.  YMMV.  You could still get a great DAC, the preamp with HT-bypass, and a great amp for the $3,500 you have to spend. 

For the record, you are only going to take that setup you have so far with the speaker placement you have.  But if you want to get the most from it, I'd go for what I stated above without hesitation.  You have absolutely fantastic speakers, and they'll step up to anything you feed them on the front end.   

[grantc79]

keep in mind the "new" and "latest technology" is not always the best.  how fun is it to drive an electric car?  I work on computers all day long.  the last thing I want to do is come home and deal with one in order to listen to music.  oh wait, I need to download this critical windows update first.  oh crap, my computer just blue screened.  let me reboot it and see what happens.  darn my hard drive just died and now I need to rip these 1000 CD's again...  there's something amazing about 100+ year old technology and that tiny needle producing such incredible sounds.  there's nothing amazing about a CD or computer doing it.

My computer has yet to blue screen, I back up all my loss less audio, and what is amazing is how awesome of sound you can get for 400 dollars

[vortrex]

My computer has yet to blue screen, I back up all my loss less audio, and what is amazing is how awesome of sound you can get for 400 dollars

for sure.  vinyl is definitely not for penny pinchers, in my opinion.  if you have $5k to spend on table/preamp/cart then I think it is the superior way to go for those fit enough to go from sitting to standing position multiple times per day.

[grantc79]

for sure.  vinyl is definitely not for penny pinchers, in my opinion.  if you have $5k to spend on table/preamp/cart then I think it is the superior way to go for those fit enough to go from sitting to standing position multiple times per day.

So basically what we have arrived at is if you can afford a high end vinyl setup and prefer that type of sound go vinyl.

If you don't have that kind of money and prefer the digital type of sound go digital.

Digital is better for ease of use if you like to jump from artist to artist.

Vinyl is better if you prefer to listen to albums at a time or if you are working on your abs/core muscles. 

[roscoeiii]

I would also add that in my experience, I agree with the recommendation that for the greatest sound improvement you will get the greatest bang for your buck by upgrading the transducers (the parts of your system that convert physical energy to electricity and vice-versa). This assumes of course that your amp isn't a total mismatch for your speakers. So with that being the case, I'd think hardest on your speakers and your source.

And when weighing responses on digital vs. vinyl it is also important to take into account exactly what digital or vinyl the commenter has heard.

I'll start here. The top end of the digital I have heard are the Yamamoto YDA-01 DAC and the Weiss DAC2 (identical internals to the $5000 Weiss Minerva). On the vinyl side of things the best I have heard is the Well Tempered Amadeus and Townshend Rock 7. Between those vinyl and digital rigs, my preference is for vinyl (cart is a SoundSmith rebuilt XX-2 MkII, phono stage a Dynavector P75). So hopefully that info is helpful. And as always IME, IMO.

[roscoeiii]

Actually, I think that the original poster needs to try to hear a good vinyl set-up and then decide. If there is not a dealer nearby who can help, maybe go through Music Direct, which has a solid 30-day return policy for everything but cartridges. Chris at Music Direct is also super helpful for turntable and set-up questions.

[Nuance]

Also, to respond to an earlier question, my current music collection is roughly 400 CD's and 100 SACD's.  I only have 6 albums.  Therefore, improving the sound of the digital collection (...via an investment in an amp and DAC) is obviously the smarter decision!

Oh, then its a no brainer to go with a digital streaming front end.  I highly recommend the already mentioned Wyred4Sound amp, Eastern Electric MiniMax Plus DAC and a sweet preamp with HT bypass.  Your Salk speakers will sound amazing with that combination and beg for more. . I also recommend a Squeezebox Touch (consult with TJHUB regarding mods if you go that route- he's the king), or for an even purer experience the SalkStream Player. 

[Miney]

Actually, I think that the original poster needs to try to hear a good vinyl set-up and then decide.

Excellent advice there...  and there may be some folks in AC land, more specifically @ the Vinyl circle, who live nearby and would be willing (love) to host you for a listen, so you could hear and compare for yourself - maybe if you posted a request over there, like potential Salk buyers often do in this circle for local auditions, you could try before buying anything.

Paul

[pstrisik]

TJHUB - would you be willing to post a bit of what the mods are that Nuance referred to?  As I mentioned earlier, I have a current model Dune which plays great but interface for music leaves something to be desired.  I took an online look at the Squeezebox Touch and am interested in the reasonably priced addition dedicated to music.

Thanks.......

[Art_Chicago]

I am using both setups: discless (mac/appleTV/iphone) and vinyl (technics1200, denon 110 cart/AVA phono stage).
To me it is about an individual recording. I heard a remastered Led Zeppelin II  CD, but it couldn't reach the LP that i recently got!
The same goes for Jazz from the 60-s - digital remastering is not always great (usually sucks) and  even reissued LPs sound more open and natural.
Yes, the dynamic range is higher for CD (100 dB vs. 65?) , but it is rarely utilized to make it sound better on MP3 players. Besides 60 dB range is enough to scare most of the listeners.
Just check the music circle for Adele 21 on cd and vinyl. Dynamic range of the LP is higher than the regular CD! There is an ocean of compressed music on CD, and I am not buying it. Finding a well recorded CD is not easy, not to mention mp3. Some hirez files sound better than CD, but imho it is more like an exception rather than the rule.

[Art_Chicago]

back to OP
I would split the money to get both

[audiotom]

First question. -  how much vinyl do you own?

What genres of music do you listen to?  Many classical albums can be had in mint condition used for pennys on the dollar. 60's -80's rock used at reasonable prices locally - weed through the beat up records


Vinyl versus digital. - in my system. No contest vinyl
I do enjoy listening to both

"Close as a blade" is a similar analogy

I think vinyl's real edge is continuous analog waveform compared to sampled 0s and 1s

Oversampled sacds and bluray are getting closer

In my experience vinyls attributes - it's musically more engaging, more tonally balanced, passionate and revealing

You will need to invest a bit more than a basic table/cartridge/phono stage unfortunately, and have it set up precisely.

In our local audio society here in New Orleans, everyone is a vinyl enthusiast.
It's about sound not nostalgia

Also as others have mentioned the shrill compression of many cds these days is horrid.

Enjoy sacd and blu ray concerts on your oppo
If you don't have much vinyl - look into 2 channel pre and amp.  You can always enhance your digital rig as technology moves forward and (used) prices come down.

[ThomasKott]

Thanks for all the great feedback!  Based on your responses, I'm planning on the following:

1) Start looking at 2 channel amplification options.  It should improve the sound of my digital (SACD/CD) music for now.  And, IF, I went for vinyl in the future it should improve the sound of that as well.  NOW, I need to look around and research 2 channel amps!  The ICE amp mentioned (Wyred) sounds very interesting.  However, with my ICE Pioneer SC-07 and the HT2's, the treble seems a little recessed.  So maybe an ICE amp and a RAAL tweeter isn't the best combination.  What other amp's might people recommend.  Are the Macintosh's as good as the hype that seems prevelent on the internet?  Is my concern about ICE and the RAAL's a valid one?

2) My other step is to go to the other forums and see if there is anyone remotely close by where I could go and listen to a vinyl setup.  I am in SouthEast Iowa, so I may have quite a drive.  However, I often travel to Saint Louis and Kansas City.  I may have better luck finding someone near one of those two cities.

Thanks!

[Miney]

Mark,

Re: #1, not sure if you've seen this recent thread where many have chimed in regarding the amps they're using with their Salks.

Paul

[Nuance]

Thanks for all the great feedback!  Based on your responses, I'm planning on the following:

1) Start looking at 2 channel amplification options.  It should improve the sound of my digital (SACD/CD) music for now.  And, IF, I went for vinyl in the future it should improve the sound of that as well.  NOW, I need to look around and research 2 channel amps!  The ICE amp mentioned (Wyred) sounds very interesting.  However, with my ICE Pioneer SC-07 and the HT2's, the treble seems a little recessed.  So maybe an ICE amp and a RAAL tweeter isn't the best combination.  What other amp's might people recommend.  Are the Macintosh's as good as the hype that seems prevelent on the internet?  Is my concern about ICE and the RAAL's a valid one?

2) My other step is to go to the other forums and see if there is anyone remotely close by where I could go and listen to a vinyl setup.  I am in SouthEast Iowa, so I may have quite a drive.  However, I often travel to Saint Louis and Kansas City.  I may have better luck finding someone near one of those two cities.

Thanks!

The earlier ICE based amps seemed to have an issue with rolled off highs, but the Wyred4Sound amps do not.  Other amps to check out would be the Parasound A21, McCormack DNA series, Odyssey Audio, ATI, BAT, etc.

[bryede]

One small additional note...

I have held one SongTower audition at my house. We listened to music from both CD and LP sources.

Not only did my guest buy SongTowers, but he also bought turntable and now has a respectable LP collection. There's some stuff on LP that simply blows all other available formats away. I think the biggest difference is in the mastering rather than the formats themselves. There was much more pride taken in cutting those lacquers back in the day and owning a turntable gives you access to those recordings. But, vinyl can be fussy and you'll have some tweaking and upkeep issues to contend with. Also, many people aren't happy with the sound until they've tried several table/cartridge/preamp combinations. It's a journey.