[zoom25]

This should help visualize it:

https://community.roonlabs.com/uploads/default/original/3X/5/7/57bdcda1334ddaf5ddb4e921caa4e10459eb1195.png

The "Music server" can be the Bryston or microRendu

The "NUC Roon Server" is the computer that runs Roon software. Just attach hard drives to it. Everything connected by ethernet.

[Tyson]

I listen to 95% hirez.  I have over $25k into my system.  And I have thousands of DSD and hirez-PCM files.  I do work in IT

IMO, digital at it's best is still not 'quite' as good as vinyl at it's best.   DSD is very close to vinyl, but not quite there.  PCM is a small step down from DSD.  I say this as someone that doesn't do vinyl and who is actually a bit biased in favor of digital, but the truth is the truth - vinyl is still better sounding, IMO. 

The main thing that digital gives you is convenience, and the ability to store a very large amount of music in a very small space.

[charmerci]

Question. I have everything Redbook. I listen to older music with few exceptions - so this is about the exceptions since hi-rez may be in my future. BUT I'm on a budget.

So, since my JRiver has higher rez capabilities, my SPDF converter can do so (fed into RCA inputs), what would be the best improvement?

a) Just getting a few 24/192 copies (easily done and favored right now in asking this!) or
b) some type of inexpensive DSD DAC/converter

We're talking here about a few hundreds of dollars.. definitely not over $1K which is a HUGE stretch of the budget.

[Tyson]

Question. I have everything Redbook. I listen to older music with few exceptions - so this is about the exceptions since hi-rez may be in my future. BUT I'm on a budget.

So, since my JRiver has higher rez capabilities, my SPDF converter can do so (fed into RCA inputs), what would be the best improvement?

a) Just getting a few 24/192 copies (easily done and favored right now in asking this!) or
b) some type of inexpensive DSD DAC/converter

We're talking here about a few hundreds of dollars.. definitely not over $1K which is a HUGE stretch of the budget.

Get an inexpensive DSD native DAC.  DSD files played back via a DSD native DAC is where the magic is at.  In my $25k system, I use the iFi iDSD Micro, it's $550 new - https://www.amazon.com/iFi-iDSD-Black-Label-Headphone/dp/B01MTNK3ZT

[Mike-48]

Wondering...

How many here listen to high-resolution formats? 

And how many who listen to hi-res use dedicated, designed from the ground up music servers?

And how many of you 'server guys' are under 40 years old and work in IT?

Just trying to get a handle on who the hi-res community is, because outside of the internet I don't know anyone who even owns a hi-res file.

Thanks for voting and commenting.

Hi JLM --

To answer your questions:

I listen to high-res formats. However, I don't listen to them exclusively, because I buy releases based on whether I want and like the music, not on the resolution. That said, if something I want to add to my library is available in high-res, I often buy it that way. That goes only for new releases; I don't see any sense in buying old analog recordings in high res. (Nor would I see any sense in buying most new pop releases in high res, because the excessive compression makes them unlistenable anyway. My listening is mostly classical music and jazz, which tend to be recorded better, to my ears.)

The files are all stored on a Synology NAS, and I listen to them in two main ways. First, through JRiver on my desktop computer, with the NAS drives mounted. JRiver feeds a USB DAC, then a power amp and speakers. Second, through a UPnP/DLNA setup with MinimServer running on the NAS and an Auralic Aries as the renderer, feeding into a DAC, power amp, and speakers.

I am 69 years old (in a few days) and have never worked in IT. However, my career was mainly in scientific modeling with computers, so I have been using them since 1967 (not a typo).

You didn't ask this, but I'll add it:  About 10-15% of my collection is high res, which I define as anything with bit depth over 16. That includes 44.1/24, 48/24, 88.2/24, 96/24, and a few higher.  To me the differences between CD resolution and high res are statistical, with more overlap than difference. Recording and mastering techniques are hugely more important than the recording format!  I have many, many 44.1/16 files that sound better than the 192/24 remaster of Stevie Wonder's Songs in the Key of Life. I find that 24-bit recordings at any sample rate are more likely to sound naturally smooth than CD's. Again, there is more overlap than difference. 

I agree entirely with the following from Anthony H. Cordesman of TAS (and it was my view long before I read what he wrote):

When the only difference in recordings is the bit and sampling rate used by two different machines to record the same music at the same moment, however, I find the sonic differences are subtle and often musically insignificant compared to the choices made in microphone, mike placement, mix, and venue.

I have yet to hear a convincing demonstration that hi-res recordings above 24-bit/96kHz—or from PCM to DSD64 and 128—really improve musical realism in even the best players. Even when I feel I can hear a difference, it requires a level of attention to upper-octave detail that can detract from the musical listening experience, and the level of difference—real or imagined—has no impact on the other, far larger aspects of musical sound quality.

[Mike-48]

Oh, one last thing I forgot to say. High-res listening usually involve some form of computer-based audio, a topic I'm giving two talks on to our audio club. In my introduction, I list reasons one might want to use it, and reasons not.

The main reason I suggest someone avoid computer audio is that they dislike computers. That is not meant as a cut, just being realistic.

Computer audio -- even the relatively simple kind using a USB DAC -- is still a bit bleeding-edge compared to a CD player. Software has a learning curve, has bugs, and is constantly updated. Computer operating systems need attention. Viruses and malware are factors. Disk crashes must be insured against with backups. There can be interoperability problems. Files may not be properly tagged. Even those who like computers find plenty of problems and issues to grumble about.

Unless you really, really want what computer audio can give you and you like computers (at least a little bit), you'll probably be happier without it. And you can get excellent sound without it, as you already know.

HTH

[charmerci]

Get an inexpensive DSD native DAC.  DSD files played back via a DSD native DAC is where the magic is at.  In my $25k system, I use the iFi iDSD Micro, it's $550 new - https://www.amazon.com/iFi-iDSD-Black-Label-Headphone/dp/B01MTNK3ZT

Hmmm, I guess I'll have to start budgeting and saving for next year!

[HAL]

With the PC setup here, would not trade being able to do things like room correction. 

Not found a CD player or transport yet that sounds better than the PC setup for USB DAC use.  I would no longer call USB DAC's bleeding edge tech.  They are very easy to use with PC's.  Windows 10 has been very easy with updates, including ones that improve sound quality.

Having a PC in the system is a matter of choice.  PC's are cheaper than transports even with SSD's and no moving parts except the DVD drive when used for ripping. 

Heard an Esoteric transport last weekend and my PC sounds better with CD's.  Glad I saved the $20K and have the PC.

[Nick77]

            Heard an Esoteric transport last weekend and my PC sounds better with CD's.  Glad I saved the $20K and have the PC.                                                                   

Wow thats a huge statement, I love my PC/server but haven't been able to compare to a good transport.

[charmerci]

Wow thats a huge statement, I love my PC/server but haven't been able to compare to a good transport.

.

In a blind test, I'm not sure if I could hear a difference between my laptop>Dragonfly>Uptone Regen>USPDF into my AVA UltraDAC vs.  a standard direct digital out from a Sony player. The ddo sounds a bit more spacious/airy....I think.

[Anonamemouse]

There is a reason the guys from Philips went with 44.1/16.  The average human is not able to hear any difference between 44.1/16 and any higher resolution in a non-studio environment.  The trained human ear MIGHT hear a difference between 16 bit and 24 bit in a controlled situation. In every day life at home or in a car the difference is not noticable.

What people proclaim to hear is the difference in mastering.  A high res recording is basicaly NEVER mastered at the same time as the standard/low res material it is compared with.

[Roninaudio]

I can't argue with the above in that -
1. My PC based system gets me probably above and beyond the quality I can appreciate (hear)
2.  Everyone may laugh, but when I stream good old Spotify, it sounds great!.  My MP3s are up sampled by Roon (PCM Max) and they sound pretty dang good too.  Now can I tell a difference on a Miles Davis 24/192 Kinda Blue track- yes. But I really have to listen.  Like as the tracks gets rolling a cymbal is struck and you can hear that decay for a hour (exaggeration). Some of us are not that analytical but there are times I like to sit and "really" listen. The reasons stated above such as human hearing limitations and my personal limitations are why I have seen no need to make sure everything is up sampled to DSD or even purchase that high a res.  I would never hear it.  Also to me tweaks are fun.... I just ordered a new USB cable (I moved my system and the Kimber is too short) and am anxious to try it... The "difference in mastering" mentioned above makes sense and I have not considered that but am always aware your source is your primary limiting factor. 

[rbbert]

There is a reason the guys from Philips went with 44.1/16.  The average human is not able to hear any difference between 44.1/16 and any higher resolution in a non-studio environment.  The trained human ear MIGHT hear a difference between 16 bit and 24 bit in a controlled situation. In every day life at home or in a car the difference is not noticable.

What people proclaim to hear is the difference in mastering.  A high res recording is basicaly NEVER mastered at the same time as the standard/low res material it is compared with.

The reasons Phillips went with 16/44.1 had to do with hardware limitations and compromises.  One can read about this in any number of places, but even during the writing of the CD standard there were plenty of people involved who “knew” that 16/44.1 wasn’t really optimal, but that it could be “good enough” for commercial purposes.

As far as mastering goes, the vast majority of high-res masterings are identical to the Redbook masterings in terms of amplitude and frequency envelopes up to ~22 kHz.

[JLM]

I would no longer call USB DAC's bleeding edge tech.  They are very easy to use with PC's.  Windows 10 has been very easy with updates, including ones that improve sound quality.

That's one of my main points, you IT people live in a different world and just don't realize how foreign computer 'stuff' can be to the rest of us, and explains why computers aren't more intuitive (like a car used to be until computer interfaces/features have ruined them).  40 years ago Bang and Olufsen had a receiver that won my design award: well built, sleek looking, and extremely simple to operate.  I challenge server manufacturers to invent one that can plug in as simply as a CD player for the common consumer.

An audio friend of mine has never bought a CD or a computer but is 100% digital.  He uses an $800 BlueSound PowerNode 2 (DAC/60 wpc integrated), controlled by his smartphone, and uses Tidal HiFi.  Not the best sound quality, but very elegant, easy to set up, and functional.  Puts nearly all other server based systems to shame in those regards.

[HAL]

When I build a music server, all you have to do is plug in the USB DAC and start Foobar2000 and play music.  One add brings in the music library.  Everything is setup before shipping.  Only question is what USB DAC do I need to load the driver for Windows 10.

All the networking needs are like any other PC.  Click on the WiFi icon select the network and put in the password.  Or just plug in the Ethernet cable.   If you want the Foobar2000 remote on any device with a browser, just put in the IP address of the machine in Foobar2000.  One command finds that address.

Put a CD in the drive and click the Foobar2000 tab for CD replay.

Much simpler than a lot of stuff I have seen.

[rbbert]

Do you a tablet or smartphone remote for your Foobar 2000 setup?  If so, which app?

[HAL]

Foobar2000 Mobile app for Android or Windows phones.

[orientalexpress]

I use MonkeyMoteHD remote for iPad for my  foobar2000

[rbbert]

I use MonkeyMoteHD remote for iPad for my  foobar2000

Thanks!

[JLM]

When I build a music server, all you have to do is plug in the USB DAC and start Foobar2000 and play music.  One add brings in the music library.  Everything is setup before shipping.  Only question is what USB DAC do I need to load the driver for Windows 10.

All the networking needs are like any other PC.  Click on the WiFi icon select the network and put in the password.  Or just plug in the Ethernet cable.   If you want the Foobar2000 remote on any device with a browser, just put in the IP address of the machine in Foobar2000.  One command finds that address.

Put a CD in the drive and click the Foobar2000 tab for CD replay.

Much simpler than a lot of stuff I have seen.

You're making my point very clearly. 

What's Foobar2000?  What's an 'add'?  What's a driver?  What if I don't use Windows 10?  What's the WiFi icon?  What's my password?  What's the point of plugging in an ethernet cable?  And what if I don't have an ethernet plug?  What's a foobar remote?  What's a browser?  What's an 'IP address'?  What's the command I would use?  Why not just tell me what that command is?

When I drive my car I just put the key in the lock and turn it, then shift into drive, push the gas pedal, and steer away.  All quite intuitive.  Why can't someone make a server that is intuitive to the most casual observer (a saying from a long gone college professor)?  Ever heard of plug and play?  Or zero glitches/100% stable/no upgrades needed?  Both of my cars have worked for 160,000 miles with routine maintenance and a new battery. 

I use a MacBook with iTunes, about as glitch free/stable a computer solution out there.  Trying out Tidal right now and getting silence.  Don't know why.  It does work on and off.  Slow connection?  Wireless router too far away?  Something else?