[zlib]

Hi, Danny.
I want to change my current speakers to NX-Otica or NX-Treme in future, but I can't decide which one will be better in my room. I've hired an acoustic guy in order to treat my room properly. He was against open-baffle speakers but my decision was firm. So now he needs distances between drivers in NX-Otica and NX-Treme and crossover points and order so that he can come up with optimal acoustic treatment solution and help me to decide if NX-Treme may fit in my room or not. Could you provide this info?

[Danny Richie]

Hi, Danny.
I want to change my current speakers to NX-Otica or NX-Treme in future, but I can't decide which one will be better in my room. I've hired an acoustic guy in order to treat my room properly. He was against open-baffle speakers but my decision was firm. So now he needs distances between drivers in NX-Otica and NX-Treme and crossover points and order so that he can come up with optimal acoustic treatment solution and help me to decide if NX-Treme may fit in my room or not. Could you provide this info?

What he is asking for isn't really relevant.

My first questions would be regarding the size of your room and even pictures of your room to see what you have to work with.

[zlib]

He tries to simulate sound propagation in my room, that's why he needs to know the distances between the floor/ceiling and drivers in speakers.

The size of my room is about 17 x 14 ft. The distance between floor and ceiling is about 9 ft.
I'm considering 2 possible placement options:





My acoustic guy said that both placements are ok but second one is better. His calculations show that listening position should be closer to speakers and this is where I'm starting to worry because the distance between speakers and listener may be too short. And my second concern is the height of NX-Treme and its closeness to the ceiling. I can treat the room acoustically as I want but I would like it to look like a living room. Of course, I'm ready for thick curtains on windows. So, this acoustic guy tries to minimize room resonances and create absorption and diffusion in proper places and he is going to build acoustic panels specifically for my room.

[Sonicjoy]

 I find it somewhat ironic that your guy would recommend against open baffle speakers as they avoid most room interaction problems, thus rendering much of what he normally would recommend moot.

 The biggest thing I can see with your room layout is keeping the speakers and your listening position off the walls at least 3 feet, and of course covering the glass. The farther away from the walls both you and the speakers are the fewer problems there generally are. I think I would get the speakers you want, set them up and see how it sounds. Then spend lots of time adjusting the position of the speakers and your seating position listening for differences. Ron at New Record day has some great video's on his you-tube channel on how to do this. Once you get the system dialed in the best you can, then you can determine what else you may need room treatment wise. He also covers treatment for OB's as well as covering the NX series speakers. Danny also has lots of great info on his channel as well.

I know it's tempting to just hire someone to solve the issues for you, but do you know if you and your "guy" have the same tastes? There is no way to know if after spending all that money that you will like the outcome.

There is no substitute for learning for yourself how to dial in your system in your room using your ears. What if at some point you want to rearrange the room? Would you have the guy come back and do it again?

Just some things to think about from someone who has been playing with this stuff for a long time.

The NX-Tream's should work fine I would think. Being close to the ceiling is no different than being close to the floor for the lower drivers. Besides the upper and lower drivers are woofers not midrange, so ceiling bounce won't be an issue for imaging. Keep in mind you will need subs for either speaker to have full range.

Good luck and have fun!

[Shives]

I’m going to jump in and say something along the same lines quick and simple!

I get what he’s trying to do. Size for reflection points and treat.

But, open baffle really help with all of that! They take away from some of those issues!

I would not hire anyone to treat your room, I’m sure you can do this DIY very easy.. 

Windows you can make boxes if you really wanted to go that far that you can take down when not using. I’m sure you’ll use basic coverings for the windows. Again if it’s super loud out those windows, have him make some removable boxes. Door way your can easily close with folding fake wall if you really needed. Many ideas..

But, really.. before I would do any of this prep... I would listen to different speakers and see what you like! Then when you get a good idea of what you like, buy a set and install! I feel only after you can really start to treat the room properly, and figure out all those answers.

No disrespect! Also not suggesting open baffles speakers? Did he give you a reason? A valid one or just his thoughts? Cause open baffle are some of the best sounding! I would not let that sway! I would have been very turned around when he asked about crossover points.

Maybe think of what he’s doing is trying paint without the colors.. just My 2 simple cents. Zero disrespect! Just curious, as well trying to add some advise. Room treating is not hard.

[zlib]

Thank you for ideas, guys. The reason he recommended me to avoid open baffle speakers is that he had a lot of problems with their placement in other clients' rooms. And his second reason is "no bass at all" (he certainly didn't hear Danny's subs).
But what really bothers me is a situation when I treat first reflection points by myself with some random absorption material but then realize that some frequencies are absorbed too much or not enough. That's why I want an optimal solution from a professional.

And my second concern is the minimum distance between NX-Treme/NX-Otica and listener position. Is ~7,5 ft too close?

[mlundy57]

Thank you for ideas, guys. The reason he recommended me to avoid open baffle speakers is that he had a lot of problems with their placement in other clients' rooms. And his second reason is "no bass at all" (he certainly didn't hear Danny's subs).
But what really bothers me is a situation when I treat first reflection points by myself with some random absorption material but then realize that some frequencies are absorbed too much or not enough. That's why I want an optimal solution from a professional.

And my second concern is the minimum distance between NX-Treme/NX-Otica and listener position. Is ~7,5 ft too close?

That’s Ok. However, once you get the speakers set up properly you may find they are at a different distance.

The time to call in the pro for room treatment is after you have the speakers set up. Then the treatment can address the actual issues you have. Treating the room first is like putting the cart before the horse.

[morganc]

I’d listen to the “pros” on this board.  They have world class systems and know how, and also know how on a budget!  Many of the audio pros in local markets cater to mega high end guys who just want to tell their friends how much they spent and don’t actually know good sound.  They also work exclusively with box speakers and likely don’t know the science behind OB. 

What I’ve learned, and it has taken me years, is what guys on the boards have the same tastes as I do.  Then I trust their experience.  Of course this takes time and much auditioning and such but it works. 

With open baffle speakers the rules are different. The room treatments needed are different. I can’t say that I know the rules but I know where to go for help.  And the guys on this board and Danny Richie will not lead you astray. 

[Tyson]

IME, room layout #2 is going to be better for OB speakers.  They care more about having space behind them and less about having space to the side.  Getting them further off the front wall will help with soundstage.  If you have wood floors, I'd also throw down a thick area rug that covered most of the wood.  And put heavy drapes on the windows. 

[jn316]

But what really bothers me is a situation when I treat first reflection points by myself with some random absorption material but then realize that some frequencies are absorbed too much or not enough. That's why I want an optimal solution from a professional.

And my second concern is the minimum distance between NX-Treme/NX-Otica and listener position. Is ~7,5 ft too close?

Trying different absorption materials is dirt cheap financially. I'm guessing your professional is not. Plus, he will probably have to experiment too with different materials to get to his final solution.

From everything I've read, 7.5 ft is not too close, but I'll let those that have actually heard them speak to that.

[Jaytor]

I agree with Tyson on the layout choice. Having more space behind the speakers really helps create a deep, airy sound stage. I've generally found that it's more important to have space behind the speakers (even closed box, but particularly for OB and dipoles) than behind the listening position, particularly if you can treat the wall behind the listening position to reduce direct reflections.

[mlundy57]

I agree with Tyson on the layout choice. Having more space behind the speakers really helps create a deep, airy sound stage. I've generally found that it's more important to have space behind the speakers (even closed box, but particularly for OB and dipoles) than behind the listening position, particularly if you can treat the wall behind the listening position to reduce direct reflections.

Agree. While having adequate space behind the LP is preferable, if adequate space behind both the speakers and LP are not possible have the space behind the speakers and plenty of absorption behind the LP. That's how my room is set up and why I get great OB sound in a small room. In my room, it took absorption into the lower frequencies in the front corners, diffusion on the front wall between the speakers, diffusion at the first reflection points, and absorption behind the LP for best results.

Others have found their room does better with absorption at the first reflection points. It just depends on what the room needs after the speakers have been placed to best advantage.

[Captainhemo]

I also agree with Tyson, more space behind   is important.... and  in a  14'  wide room, yoiu'll have  room to the sides for subs  which have nulls to the side anyhow (assuming you're going with the  OB H-frames).

7.5  away from either the NX-Trem or the NX-Otica will be fine, I have lots of experience with both speakers.   In that sized room,   you may be surprised at  how much bass you  get  from either  speaker, my room is very similar   ( approx  18 x12)   and  I was able to get  some  very good  results with the NX - Oticas on their own,  no subs:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=158550.msg1697216#msg1697216

After spending a lot of time with the NX-Tremes  in another room and knowing  how their presence can take over   even a larger room,  I'd be  hesitant to  put them in that room, they are big and even though they are OB, those   16 M165's  put out quite a bit of bass... not  saying   you  can't over come any issues with good room treatment.

In my opinion, the Otica's would be a much better fit in that room

jay

[mkrawcz]

Open baffle speakers basically eliminate 2/3 of room interactions due to the 90 degree cancellation. Remember, that is spherical, not just the sides. At that point it’s almost a none issue for the typical room in a home. A rug and some front wall panels is pretty much all you need.

[Tyson]

Also, not sure if aesthetics are important for you, but the NX-Treme will visually overwhelm that room.  The NX-Otica tower plus dual or triple OB subs will be more than enough in that room. 

[zlib]

In my opinion, the Otica's would be a much better fit in that room

That's very valuable info, thanks! So, NX-Otica would fit this room better. What about subs? Will I get any advantage of 3-speakers subs over 2?

IME, room layout #2 is going to be better for OB speakers.

The second layout has some problems too. I have a piano and it limits my options of speakers placement:
 

As you can see, I can only put subs close to the main speakers here. I think the first layout gives me more area to experiment with the placement, don't you think so?

[mlundy57]

That's very valuable info, thanks! So, NX-Otica would fit this room better. What about subs? Will I get any advantage of 3-speakers subs over 2?

The second layout has some problems too. I have a piano and it limits my options of speakers placement:
 

As you can see, I can only put subs close to the main speakers here. I think the first layout gives me more area to experiment with the placement, don't you think so?

There is a definite difference in sound quality between 2 driver and 3 driver subs. Since the 3 driver subs don't take up any more floor space than the 2 driver subs, are a better visual match for the NX-Oticas, and sound significantly better, go with the 3 driver subs.

[Sonicjoy]

The piano does complicate things. Although you may find it sings along with the music.  Could be good or bad. I would think the right drawing would be best. Keep it off to the side instead of behind the speakers.

[Captainhemo]

My issue with the    "wide"  layout is that  it places you  up fairly close to the rear  wall,  yes, it can be treated  but  still don't  like  being too close  if it's avoidable.

With regards to the subs,   stereo   dual   towers  will easily fill that  space but,  as Mike mentions,    , you  will be working  each woofer in  a pair of triples  less which equates to faster  settling times, less distortion,  and beter bass.   IN a room that size,  you  wouldn't be working  a dual  setup very  hard so  not sure how much difference there  would be..... now that being said,  when I had the triples in my room  , we did feel they were bettter, just a bit clearner and a bit "punchier"...... I currently run the  Super 7's  which  have the  duals built in,  no issues   whatsoever in   my room....  even with the   95 +/- Super 7s,   the amps are not being  pushed,  tons of headroom left.

jay

[Tyson]

How about doing the MTM-Otica and dual subs as stands?  That still gives very good performance and you don't have to worry about shoehorning separate sub towers into that room.