AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Spatial Audio => Topic started by: DaveWin88 on 6 Sep 2022, 07:25 pm
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New speakers boys. Check them out.
https://www.spatialaudiolab.com/mseries
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Notice the footers. I do not see them identified.
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I'm having a love / hate relationship with the M100 right now :) Good decision on the soft dome tweeter.
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I guess time will tell. Personally, I really like the sapphire mid/tweeter on my M3 Sapphires...not a hint of harshness and massive soundstage....but I'm pretty sure the silk sounds great as well. As for the stands/feet on the X's...now on the new M....not a fan...but it probably had to be done for overall balance so the speaker wouldn't tip.
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looks like the whole lineup of models has been reduced. supply chain issues must be giving them a ton of trouble. I think chips for the plate amps are holding up their production. Color choices seem to have been limited and ultralam must have been eliminated in some of the models.
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I guess time will tell. Personally, I really like the sapphire mid/tweeter on my M3 Sapphires...not a hint of harshness and massive soundstage....but I'm pretty sure the silk sounds great as well. As for the stands/feet on the X's...now on the new M....not a fan...but it probably had to be done for overall balance so the speaker wouldn't tip.
Ron I came to the conclusion that the M6 is just to short compared to the M4 and definitely to the M3. I hear guys all the time saying that the M3 has beaucoup bass :) I'm not hearing it, until I decided to raise the M6 and I'm telling you, it's a completely different beast. Much much better integration with the tweeter. 1 it's a large tweeter 1.25, no box to contribute, or much of the room for that matter. The tweeter in relation to the two 10 inch drivers vs two 15's. Maybe a one inch tweeter would have been a better choice for the M6? It's very much improved just with 2.5 inches added to the base.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=244591)
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Dave… good for your discovery… if they read this it will probably help others.
I’m wondering if the issue is the supply of the sapphire corundum tweeter… that unit seems to have been out of stock at the various speaker retailers for many, many months.
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Ron I came to the conclusion that the M6 is just to short compared to the M4 and definitely to the M3. I hear guys all the time saying that the M3 has beaucoup bass :) I'm not hearing it until I decided to raise the M6 and I'm telling you, it's a completely different beast. Much much better integration with the tweeter. 1 it's a large tweeter 1.25, no box to contribute, or much of the room for that matter. The tweeter in relation to the two 10 inch drivers vs two 15's. Maybe a one inch tweeter would have been a better choice for the M6? It's very much improved just with 2.5 inches added to the base.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=244591)
The shorter speaker would place your ears above the M6 while the M3's due to height it might be just right, plus your height compared to my height listening to the same speaker might be totally different, I am 6'4" tall and when I slide down a touch in my chair the M3 Sapphires lock right in. My wife who is 5'2" would be well below the tweeter and the sound she hears would be more full and warm due to her ear being even with the upper woofer/midrage driver. For the M6 to check this out sit on the floor and listen to it. Your jaw might hit the ground...smile!
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It starting to look like the M3s may not be back…. Just in case…Better buy these if still available
https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649878299-like-new-spatial-audio-m3-sapphire-loudspeakers-price-drop/
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The shorter speaker would place your ears above the M6 while the M3's due to height it might be just right, plus your height compared to my height listening to the same speaker might be totally different, I am 6'4" tall and when I slide down a touch in my chair the M3 Sapphires lock right in. My wife who is 5'2" would be well below the tweeter and the sound she hears would be more full and warm due to her ear being even with the upper woofer/midrage driver. For the M6 to check this out sit on the floor and listen to it. Your jaw might hit the ground...smile!
Yes listener height will vary from person to person for sure. I'm guessing that a majority of the M3 owners (you might be the exception) are probably right on the money? ear wise. I've struggled since day one with this tweeter :) and it has improved immensely now that I'm probably at the 400 ish hour mark. That being said, you really don't want to be at tweeter level at all with the Spatials? We need to get at least in between the top woofer and the tweeter, maybe even having your ear at the top of the upper bass driver. Guys I'm not kidding it's night and day better? (all the wonderfull mids and upper bass frequencies are being over shadowed by the lovely hard surface and not open M100)
btw my speakers are 41 inches from floor to the top of the baffle at this point.
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I guess time will tell. Personally, I really like the sapphire mid/tweeter on my M3 Sapphires...not a hint of harshness and massive soundstage....but I'm pretty sure the silk sounds great as well. As for the stands/feet on the X's...now on the new M....not a fan...but it probably had to be done for overall balance so the speaker wouldn't tip.
The worry here is what happens if the peerless tweet fails for any reason? Lots of M3's in the field. Replace with the new Beyma model? What happens to the x-over? Concerned mainly because some M3 owners did report issues with their tweets. Beginning to look like the M3 might become a museum piece.
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I hope this tweeter is not gone for good. My prior speakers had the RAAL 70XR tweeters and to my own surprise, after now living with the Sapphire tweeters, I prefer them ever so slightly. They seem to have more detail and sparkle with no harshness.
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One other concern spawned by RonN5's comments: what happens to the resale potential of M3's if the corundum tweeter becomes unobtainium? Better treat our M3's with lots'o'love.
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You know guys. As I'm having a listening session tonight, I was thinking that my biggest gripe with the tweeter is it's output. It can be a bit much, but rarely over the top offensive. It's more of a balance issue. Be nice if you could possibly reduce the OP with a filter? The tweeter does a ton of things very well? The tone, clarity, good air (trigger alert on YT) Great upper highs. Very good detail. It's really pretty damn good.
btw I'm listening to Michael Haydn symphonies 34-39. I'm sure he learned a ton from his brother (The best on earth) he definitely didn't copy him at all.
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I don’t find the tweeter to have too much output… in fact I’d say the tone and balance are outstanding. Also, at any sane listening level, I’m not concerned at all about the durability of this tweeter.
Since the tweeter is still on the peerless website, I’m thinking the issue for Spatial is how to sell speakers when the supply line can’t give reliable delivery promises… so the tweeter change is possibly a workaround to allow sales to resume.
Seems to be the post pandemic world we live in.
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Going off Ron's comments, is the M line now restricted to 2 models (not seeing other M's advertised): M3 and Ultra M4? And, if so, the M3 still appears with the peerless tweet. So, while I agree with Ron that the new model, reliant on the Beyma tweet, might be a sales work-around, and wholly reasonable at that, does this suggest that future M3's will have the Beyma tweet? I recognize that with the NY show Clayton had plenty to do over the last weeks but, perhaps, time for Clayton to weigh-in.
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I guess I'll answer my own question. It appears that Clayton has indicated the Sapphire tweeter is "no longer available." See Clayton's intro on the new Ultra M4. Missed that reference for some reason. So it appears that we with the Sapphire tweeter (M100) are among the elect? Nada mas. Still wondering if SA will offer a replacement package for the elect with a modified x-over (to the extent it exists) and the new Beyma tweet. Interesting situation.
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I guess I'll answer my own question. It appears that Clayton has indicated the Sapphire tweeter is "no longer available." See Clayton's intro on the new Ultra M4. Missed that reference for some reason. So it appears that we with the Sapphire tweeter (M100) are among the elect? Nada mas. Still wondering if SA will offer a replacement package for the elect with a modified x-over (to the extent it exists) and the new Beyma tweet. Interesting situation.
You know, I wonder if it would even match up. The whole mount on the M100 seems larger? I'm guessing that the new tweeter is 1inch (it looks like it) vs 1.25 of the M100?
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Actually, I think there are possibly three issues here and it would be good if Clayton could address the first...
1. From the standpoint of diy...the peerless tweeter is still available on the peerless website and still available to order..but it is on backorder and Clayton can't run a business if he can't get inventory....so making a change in order to continue to make speakers is only logical...so from a M Sapphire owner standpoint, the only real question is whether he has or can get replacements for anyone that blows a tweeter...and this is probably an extremely small number?
2. The actual cut out that the peerless fits into on the M Sapphire model is pretty large; least 3" in diameter with about 1/2" of open space around the peerless unit...so possibly plenty of room to install a different unit. As to whether the new speaker is "better"...in my mind, that is a perception question...some people prefer Sapphires to X's...and some will prefer Sapphires with peerless tweeters to silk dome tweeters...and that is ok....different rooms, different gear, etc.
3. Which brings us to #3...assuming that Clayton has or can get replacement peerless units, I'm not sure why he would offer a soft dome replacement kit as the new soft dome models also have a different midrange and woofer, a different baffle, a different crossover...they are completely new speakers.
What would make current M Sapphire owners comfortable is to know that there are peerless tweeters available in the event they have a problem and need one.
Clayton, could you please comment on this issue.
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I find RonN5's comments directly on point. Additionally, however, Clayton might be tempted to respond because, frankly, if I can't sell my M3's (and now I'm not certain I want to because they sound so phenomenal) I'm precluded from purchasing new SA products - a matter of both funding and space. Inquiring minds want to know....
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A year ago I would have said "Kudos for replacing the M100." That isn't the case anymore. I love the overall presentation of the M3 Sapphires and haven't given a second thought to another speaker for a while. That's unusual for me.
I found that because the speakers had greater dynamic range than what I was using before, and because the bass is so room-friendly, I was unwittingly cranking the volume about 10 db louder than I should have. In doing so, the treble got nasty harsh on peaks and I was having kittens about whether I'd made a mistake. But between break-in (speakers, ears, or both?) and going back to "normal" listening levels (85 db A-weighted peaks), I'm a happy camper.
All I do these days is buy records and listen to tunes. Not thinking about gear at all.
The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence is usually just an illusion.
Save yourselves some $$ and stick with the program. The M3 Sapphires with the Peerless tweeter are tremendous speakers!
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A year ago I would have said "Kudos for replacing the M100." That isn't the case anymore. I love the overall presentation of the M3 Sapphires and haven't given a second thought to another speaker for a while. That's unusual for me.
I found that because the speakers had greater dynamic range than what I was using before, and because the bass is so room-friendly, I was unwittingly cranking the volume about 10 db louder than I should have. In doing so, the treble got nasty harsh on peaks and I was having kittens about whether I'd made a mistake. But between break-in (speakers, ears, or both?) and going back to "normal" listening levels (85 db A-weighted peaks), I'm a happy camper.
All I do these days is buy records and listen to tunes. Not thinking about gear at all.
The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence is usually just an illusion.
Save yourselves some $$ and stick with the program. The M3 Sapphires with the Peerless tweeter are tremendous speakers!
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I had the same basic experience when I got my M3's. My previous speakers had the same sensitivity rating so I would set my preamp at the same percentage but the sound was glaring. After realizing and turning it down 12 percent things were coming around. Also after several hundred hours of break in they REALLY started to sound good. The M3 could be my last speaker (I'm 68 years old). Also with the recent "upgrades" to the M3 I do not feel I am missing out, quite the contrary. Aside from the rounded baffle edges and the aluminum base I tend to think the original drivers (M100 and Eminence 15") may be superior and Claytons driver changes are more due to supply issues rather than intended upgrades. I'll never get to compare so I will never know and I am sure Clayton did not replace the drivers with 2nd rate components.
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Tangram & El Tio - Please add a seat at the table for me. As some may recall, I was considering upgrading the M3's to the X4's thinking I might enhance the musical experience. But upon replacing my Psvane 845 monos with the Class D MiniGans (GanFets) I have wholeheartedly abandoned any plan to upgrade. The M3's sing like never before. I hadn't heard such clarity, detail, and/or resolution from the M3's prior to the amp change-out. I find the peerless unit to be, well, if not peerless, at least so facile that I now have no desire to "upgrade." Regarding issues related to amp output/wattage/current all I can say is that the substantially increased "power" (going from 845's to GanFets) brought the M3 woofers to life - WOKE them from their slumber in relative terms. There may be something to the claim that Clayton's change to the M200 tweeter (Beyma) was instigated by supply chain issues rather than a deliberate design motivation. Regardless, Daryl Zero writing in this circle called it - if it sounds good maybe just leave it alone. Take yes for an answer. End-game speaker? Probably.