[gerchin]

Current system: Bone stock Rega Planar 3 with RB300 arm. Shure V15V-MR cartridge, shims under arm for proper VTA.

I have found the V15 to be perfectly adequate for my needs -- I like the sound, even on my rather old vinyl (every album at least 20 years old; some, at 60+, older than I am); excellent tracking ability. However, the stylus on the V15 is in need of replacement.

I can get a JICO SAS V15-VMR replacement for ~$180.

I can get an M97xE for ~$90. I know that it's not quite as good as the V15-VMR, but it's inexpensive and, given the quality of my vinyl, I'm not willing to be too extravagent.

I've read good things about the Ortofon 2M Red and Blue, in which they were compared favorably to the sound of the V15-VMR. I can get the Red for ~$100, the Blue for ~$200. If I get the Red, I can upgrade it later with a Blue stylus for ~$165.

Points in favor of keeping the V15-VMR:
   - It's already set up.
   - The SAS stylus should make a good-sounding cartridge even better.

Points against keeping the V15-VMR:
   - One channel plays about 1.5 dB louder than the other (verified by swapping cables at the preamp input). I don't know whether this is caused by the cartridge itself, or by the stylus assembly. Could replacing the stylus solve this problem?
   - It's ancient, and a more modern cartridge might benefit from improvements in technology.

I'd welcome suggestions regarding the best choice.

Thanks,
Greg

[JackD]

If you like the Shure "house sound" then the Ortofon 2M series would not be for you no matter what Fremer and the other reviewers say.  That is my opinion and I will surely be contradicted shortly by the crowd who loves them.  If you want to try an Ortofon stick with the older OM series and stay away from the "CD sounding" 2M's.  For choices within your upper limit of the SAS replacement and to stay with a cartridge that fits into a sound profile you are familier with I would buy the M97xe, the Nagaoka MP-110 or a Grado Black and an 8MZ stylus.  With the Grado choice you then have a spare stylus already at hand or at least a lower level stylus to play worn records with. Again just my humble opinion and other will surely differ.

[gerchin]

Hmmm ... not a lot of opinions on the subject. That's unusual.

JackD, thanks for your input. I'm not sure what I'll do just yet, but I'll keep your comments in mind.

Greg

[neobop]

This is a tricky question because of the channel imbalance.  Was it always like that?  Maybe you could switch the 4 wires at the cart pins and see if it's the cart or the arm wire.  It could even be a loose tag on one of the pins.  Getting a new SAS is your optimal choice if you can figure out what the problem is.
If you get an M97, you'd need the SAS for that to get a sound closer to the V15.
neo

[JackD]

Or you can measure the two channels with a DMM to see how they fare against the specs published on VE or the Shure website.  And no there are not a lot of options left for that Shure sound you like as most of the current MM cartridges are to me somewhat forward and thin in the bottom and lower mids's. I just recently tried the much lauded Denon DL-110 HOMC and found it to be the same unless you want to load it down which reduces the output. 

[gerchin]

If I provide identical signals to both phono inputs on the preamp (achieved by splitting one of the cartridge outputs with a Y-cable and leaving the other unconnected -- I know that this doesn't load the cartridge properly, but for this test I don't care because all I want is to see how well the levels match through the preamp), the channels track to within a fraction of a dB. If I connect the cartridge properly and then play a monophonic album, one channel is consistently about 1.5 dB hotter than the other. Thinking it might just be that one channel was cut hotter than the other, I swap the preamp inputs, and the channel imbalance also swaps. [EDIT: Meant to include that I tried this with multiple monophonic albums, and the result was the same in all cases. Just swapping the inputs won't tell you anything if the album is cut one side hot.] So it's the cartridge or the interconnects. I haven't tried swapping the four wires connected to the cartridge, yet, though I have cleaned the connectors on both ends.

I don't recall things being this way when the cartridge was new. I just recently brought the turntable out after a couple of years' storage, and this is new since then.

As for the "Shure sound"; don't think that I'm locked-in on that. I like the sound well enough, in the sense that it does nothing egregious, but if I can get better sound within my price range then I'll go for it. I am particularly sensitive to high frequency "sizzle" in cartridges; if there is a resonance at the top end then I will find it intolerable.

Thanks for your help,
Greg

[neobop]

What you've done is partially troubleshoot it.  We know the problem is ahead of the preamp, but is it cart or arm wire?  I suspect it's the arm wire, carts usually don't change like that, but we don't yet know for shure.   
neo

[gerchin]

Yes; swapping the cartridge wires is the next step, for shure. 

I'll try that when I get a chance, and report back.

Thanks,
Greg

[JackD]

gerchin

Yes I agree with you as I don't tolerate High end sizzle either, but unfortunately that is the standard in the much lauded MM cartridge base.  From reviews and experience the exceptions seem to be the current Shure with its QC issues, Nagaoka and Grado.  There is one AT that is supposed to be the exception to the rule the AT-7V though I have never heard it.

[tull skull]

I know the recommendation has fallen out of favor but there is also the lady on ebay who is selling the Ed Saunders stylus replacements. I have not really heard much negative comments regarding the stylus itself, just about her non audiophile pedigree. Just trying to give you another path you might explore.

[galyons]

... Ed Saunders stylus replacements.

I have 2 on V15's. Both were purchased from Ed.   As good or better than the original.  Saving $$ to get a Jico. I haven't heard the "buzz" on the eBay lady.

Cheers,
Geary

[tull skull]

He sold the whole kit and caboodle to her. I think maybe AA is where I read about it but I don't remember seeing any complaints about the actual product.

[gerchin]

I just did a search using "Ed Saunders stylus": found some indications that his Shure replacement styli are at least as good as OEM, but nowhere near as good as JICO SAS; also found lots of indications that Mr. Saunders himself may be difficult to deal with. An Ed Saunders V15-VMR replacement stylus is $100.

[galyons]

Thanks, good to know.  I would definitely buy again if the styli are the same quality.

Cheers,
Geary

[gerchin]

We know the problem is ahead of the preamp, but is it cart or arm wire?

It's the cartridge.

The first image "Same Signal Both Inputs" shows the relative channel levels at an instant of time, when both preamp inputs are connected to the same signal via a Y-cable. Note that levels in both channels are identical.

The second image "Normal Connection Mono Album" shows the same when the turntable is connected in the normal fashion to the stereo cartridge, but playing a mono album. Note that one channel is about 1.5 dB hotter than the other.

The third image "Reversed Connection Mono Album" the same when the connections are reversed at the preamp; left cable connected to right input, and vice-versa. Note that the channel imbalance has changed channels, which indicates that the problem is not in the preamp.

The fourth image "Turntable Cables Swapped Mono Album" shows the same when the cable connections are reversed at the cartridge and at the preamp (resulting in a "normal" channel connection -- left to left, right to right -- but the cables carrying the channels have been swapped. Note that the "hot" channel stays the same, indicating that the problem is not in the cables, but is in the cartridge.

[galyons]

Let's not lose sight of the fact that the original Shure V15V-MR channel balance spec was < 1.5dB. 

Cheers,
Geary

[gerchin]

Let's not lose sight of the fact that the original Shure V15V-MR channel balance spec was < 1.5dB.

True, but here are the factory measurements originally provided with the cartridge:

    LEFT CHANNEL  RIGHT CHANNEL
1 kHz   0.0  0.0 dB
2 kHz  +0.2 -0.1
4 kHz   0.0 -0.3
6 kHz  -0.3 -0.5
8 kHz  -0.1 -0.5
10 kHz +0.2 -0.2
12 kHz +0.7 +0.3
14 kHz +0.2 -0.2
16 kHz +0.1 +0.2
18 kHz -0.1 +0.3
20 kHz +0.5 +0.3

[neobop]

I don't recall things being this way when the cartridge was new. I just recently brought the turntable out after a couple of years' storage, and this is new since then.

As for the "Shure sound"; don't think that I'm locked-in on that. I like the sound well enough, in the sense that it does nothing egregious, but if I can get better sound within my price range then I'll go for it. I am particularly sensitive to high frequency "sizzle" in cartridges; if there is a resonance at the top end then I will find it intolerable.

Unless the stylus isn't seated properly or something like that, I doubt if a new stylus can cure the channel imbalance. You don't read about this too often.  So, the question is, do you want a new cart or stick with the old? 

neo

[gerchin]

Unless the stylus isn't seated properly or something like that, I doubt if a new stylus can cure the channel imbalance.

I tried reseating the stylus and it made no differnece.

So, the question is, do you want a new cart or stick with the old? 

Under the circumstances, probably a new cartridge. I've been reading good things about the Nagaoka MP-110. The Grados that I've heard in the past did not impress me.

I can also go the moving-coil route. I always loved the Denon 103 ...

Greg