[Zerogravity]

Hello Danny you recommended the N3 for me and I just wanted to know if you thought this would be ok for a 21x17x10 room. I also will need to sit 15' away due to limited placement issues. I know it's not the ideal shape room and I wasn't sure if I explained that to you during our e- mail disscusions?
   It's also funny that the other poster interested in the N3, like me thought the Zaph designs were the best deals, but it seems the  direction beginers are pointed towards for some
 resaon. I even got mad at you, if you recall.
Of course I was wrong and didn't know you to
 be the sometimes painfuly honest, up front
and talented speaker designer that you are.
But I am appreciative of getting to know you,
at least via e-mail! I'm also not knocking John
K of Zaph and as a matter of fact I respect him
 very much for his contributions to our hobby.
 His driver test site is extremely valuable and
although he uses top grade drivers in his
designs I don't believe in his opinion that
upgraded crossover components are a waste of
 money. Although they don't show up on his
tests, they do show up if you know what to
look for and I can certainly hear a difference
considering everything is exactly the same
except upgrade crossover components.
   If anyone else might know from experience, How does the N3 compare to other GR designs and how would they compare to mass market speakers like Dynaudio,B&W,Dali, PSB, Monitor Audio and many others? I am also wondering how the B&G Neo 3 in this design compares to other high end ribbon designs using Raal and others. Some people say they are among the best they heard, However the B&G is the only ribbon that compares favourably on the measurements I have seen with quality soft domes! Thanks 

[Rclark]

I'm the other poster who wanted Zaph. Yeah, at that point I'd researched about every single DIY known to man. I want an N3 kit with all the upgrades. The SR-71 sure looked nice, but Danny most succinctly elaborated on the weaknesses of the design, especially as pertaining to the crossover. And I believe that the drivers in the N3 will be superior. Not to mention cone area. Don't forget it's a transmission line.

I've been saving my money to buy a Virtue amplifier thanks to the link on GR (my budget was $268 shipped for an H/K 3940 but, no, I think I need a Sensation), and so I'm on pause at the moment, but I'm very excited, and completely solid on going with Danny and his N3.

FYI, your room isn't as large as you think it is.

[cujobob]

The BG Neo3 is spectacular...the RAAL tweeters are a slight step up, but at a bigtime cost.

[Zerogravity]

Thanks for your responses guy's! I have no doubt that the N3 is a great design and after talking with Danny and researching everything else as well, his designs in my subjective opinion are the absolute best and affordable around. It doesn't hurt that he is so dedicated to this hobby giving the average person a chance to obtain quality products. I also found him to be extremely honest no matter the sacrafice and his knowledge and talent are valuable from the experience of designing so many different types of speakers.


   It's funny that when I first started out learning about DIY, that there were people who were fans of different camps. You had the Zaph or Madisound camps as well as the Ascend Acoustics. At the time due to my budget I found the Ed Frias designs, I thought it was the absolute best from all the positive audioreview posts. I wasn't until I found out about GR designs until Danny corrected me on some forum post, I can't remember where. But after researching it, I found that he was right and that he wasn't someone just bullshooting and trying to make a profit!


   At my budget I think the the Neo3 is good enough for me and I have them in another speaker I own from SLS. It has great air, wide dispersion, smooth sound while still being detailed. I was just curious how the Rall and Arum Cantus compared, but to me unless it's not a big step up in Sound Quality, it's not worth it's much higher cost, but that's just me and it's of course subjective.


   The Virtue amps are on my list as well and Danny recommended them highly. I was curious about this as well as reading all the hoopla about "T" amps being the next best thing in audio. I wanted a taste of this, so I purchased 2 Pocket "T" amps from ThinkGeek, at $59.00 wasn't bad. These are stereo/mono capable and I am using 1 for each speaker in mono. These have about 60watts total in mono as well as and SPL of 115db. I was floored when I heard the sound. I am getting more slam in bass as well as a warmer yet detailed sound, I like the sound much better then that of my Marantz reciever puts out. If these cheap $59.00 amps can sound this good I can only imagine how much better the Virtue or Sensation Amps with much better components and build quality can be! 

[Danny Richie]

I'll briefly touch some of this.

First off, your room is fine for N3's. My room is 23' by 17' with 9' ceilings and they work great in there. I do however like using a single servo sub for the first octave.

On the BG Neo... It has been my favorite tweeter, especially the deep back cup version (that you can only get in our kits  ). And I have used just about every best of the of the best dome tweeters by every manufacturer.

Now the BG Neo's are really not a ribbons at all. they are planar magnetic drivers, and they have some real advantages over the ribbons. The ribbons are great until you start letting them play very low. If they begin to wiggle at all then they are really loosing control, going into distortion, and really sounding bad. This is true with all of them and I have used, tested, or been a dealer for most of them.

The ribbons have a nice air about them and handle trailing edges well, but miss the attack a little bit. They have their own sound sometimes too. Sometimes good and sometimes not so good.

The ribbons are also very fragile. The Neo's the other hand can literally be thrown down the highway and they will still function fine afterward.

The RAAL is a little different, but in my opinion the only gem in the line is the OEM only version. I have a pair of them here right now and will be using them in a new commercial speaker line for one of my clients. I'll let you know more on it after I have spent some time with it. They are expensive too.

On the Zaph fans and followers: These guys are from the objective camp. These means anything that they can't measure in some way can't sound different. To them, differences in wire, capacitors, burn in effects, etc are all imaginary, and anyone that sells any high quality (or expensive) anything to those regards are a bunch of snake oil salesmen. And the whole group of them never waste an opportunity to take pop shots at anyone (especially me) that talks about how something sounds. So just know where they are coming from and what their agenda is. 

[Zerogravity]

Sounds good and as I told you before, the N3 will be my next speaker! Do I have to purchase it from you and then send it to Sean for the build or can I order it directly from Sean since he has everything for the N2 kits already? I am not sure about the flat pack kits from Out of the Woods but eD will make a flat kit out of Baltic Birch at a fair price!


   As far as other people making negative remarks about expensive capacitors, resistors, wire and any other upgraded component and saying they don't work, must have bad ears! I would never knock anything until I try it and I have heard the difference myself. One night I was changing cables from a basic copper radio shack brand to some I have made myself, I could clearly hear the difference. At first I said " ok maybe it's just mind tricks, but then my wife walked into the room and asked if I got another speaker, I explained that I just changed cables and she said it sounded better!  I noticed a much more
Pronounced difference switching to my "T" amp although it's cheap! Which gets me excited knowing how much better the Virtue amp sounds!


   Danny will the virtue amp have the power to give decent SPL sitting 15' away? Thanks, Jim

[Danny Richie]

When you order it I can drop ship your networks straight to Sean for assembly.

The Virtue amp will drive those speakers to good levels for most music but will run out of juice if you try to really drive them to louder levels.

[Zerogravity]

Sounds Kewel! I will E-mail you before the weekend, Finaly! As far as the Virtue is concerned, I do not like to listen to insane loud levels of music, however I would at least like 80db. The "T amps I have now will easily go past this and I always have my Marantz that will push them till it hurts, however I am a Mature responsible Adult and I would never...ever...ever do this...yea right!

[HT cOz]

Sounds Kewel! I will E-mail you before the weekend, Finaly! As far as the Virtue is concerned, I do not like to listen to insane loud levels of music, however I would at least like 80db. The "T amps I have now will easily go past this and I always have my Marantz that will push them till it hurts, however I am a Mature responsible Adult and I would never...ever...ever do this...yea right!

80db you don't even need 1 watt.

[Zerogravity]

Yes, when you are a few feet away. But I'm talking about getting 80db at 15-20' away. I am sure the N3 will be perfect and is a great deal for a speaker that compared well with many cost no object speakers! I can always position them closer in a equilateral triangle if I have to!

[S Clark]

I have the Av-3's, which should have the exact same sensitivity of the N3's, in a room that is 25X24 with a ceiling that slopes from 8-14 ft.  It is driven by two custom 15 watt monos that easily fills the room with full orchestral volume.  Something like a Virtue will play insanely loud in your room. 

[Zerogravity]

Thank You S Clark, that makes me feel much better as well as the ability to turn it up to insane levels! I see some people want speakers that can output over 100db and I think 80db is loud? I like to listen comfortably and enough volume where I can hear all the important musical details as well as feel it. Clean, clear, airy and tight for all frequencies help, but much of that is dependant on speakers and electronics. Now I have to find out more Flat Pack choices, eD seemed like a decent deal but I heard someone on the forum was just as resonable with better quality?