Caintuck Audio The Lii 15 Baffles

chips666 · « **Reply #40 on:** 26 Jan 2020, 05:58 pm »

http://zelfbouwaudio.nl/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=28193
Hello
First link in this thread refers to the OB voyage of this guy Leonidas
the same person who developed the crossovers for the PAP trio
Enjoy...

Bumpy · « **Reply #41 on:** 29 Jan 2020, 05:50 pm »

Quote from: uncola on 26 Dec 2019, 06:08 am

roadtripper for open baffle, larger baffles basically just give you more bass

So these small baffles give less bass.

Bumpy · « **Reply #42 on:** 29 Jan 2020, 05:55 pm »

Quote from: nature boy on 7 Nov 2019, 11:05 am

Beowulf,

I believe the F-15 specs indicate a frequency range of 50-20 KHz

Perhaps someone in the know will tell us what size baffle these figures were obtained with. I doubt it was the tiny open baffles they are sold with.

RoadTripper · « **Reply #43 on:** 29 Jan 2020, 06:38 pm »

My Caintuck clones which copy the smaller baffle (original) using the Visaton B200 reach 50 hz. with no apparent fall-off. This is based on hearing, not measuring.

Bumpy · « **Reply #44 on:** 29 Jan 2020, 07:50 pm »

Quote from: RoadTripper on 29 Jan 2020, 06:38 pm

My Caintuck clones which copy the smaller baffle (original) using the Visaton B200 reach 50 hz. with no apparent fall-off. This is based on hearing, not measuring.

There is no dispute that low frequencies on open baffles are fast, dynamic, musical and immensely enjoyable. But, these qualities can fool the brain into thinking that the frequencies are deeper than they are. There are only a few ways to beat the physics.

1. Apply separate and often powerful amplification to the bass driver, often accompanied by DSP.
2. Restrict the rear wave from cancelling the front, using extended wings, U frames, H frames or boxes, but each is moving you further away from open baffle sound.
3. Use drivers with very high Qts, that can flop about easily and produce deeper but less accurate bass.

danali · « **Reply #45 on:** 2 Feb 2020, 01:49 am »

how do these or would these compare to the Hawthorne audio 15 incher?

bferguson · « **Reply #46 on:** 10 Feb 2020, 10:38 pm »

Just an FYI...I visited Randy's showroom a couple of months ago and heard the Betsy, Betsy Alnico and LII 15's...He was driving them with a Decware UFO. All of the speakers threw a large sound stage with very good tonal quality. The Betsy's were paired with a Parts Express sub-woofer which seemed to blend pretty well. The LII 15s definitely had more punch...I'll have to go back with some music I am familiar with and do some more listening.

Randy's offerings really seem to be a gateway into high end sound at affordable cost..

Interestingly we moved a set of the speakers to against the wall, and while the sound stage shrank, it was still listenable. So for those with spousal approval issues, these can be easily moved away from the wall for serious listening and back when not...they don't weigh much.

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #47 on:** 10 Feb 2020, 11:42 pm »

Of the three OBs you heard at Randy’s shop, which did you prefer the most and why?

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #48 on:** 11 Feb 2020, 12:12 am »

Quote from: danali on 2 Feb 2020, 01:49 am

how do these or would these compare to the audio 15 incher?

They are no similar, the Hawthorne is a woofer, the Lii 15 is a fullrange.

Woodsage · « **Reply #49 on:** 11 Feb 2020, 05:15 am »

Quote

how do these or would these compare to the audio 15 incher?
They are no similar, the Hawthorne is a woofer, the Lii 15 are a fullrange.

In addition to a 15” woofer Hawthorne Audio offered two different 15” coaxial drivers. One had a stamped basket with a Eminence compression driver. The other had a cast frame with a Radian compression driver.

IMO there is a big difference between a coaxial driver and a full range driver. All things being equal I prefer a the latter.

bferguson · « **Reply #50 on:** 11 Feb 2020, 11:41 am »

couple caveats: I wasn't very familiar with the music played, mostly acoustic stuff from Stockfisch and it was the first time I'd really explored OBs...

To my ears, the 15s were more dynamic and had more detail in the mids and highs than either Betsy. I think Randy said he prefers the original Betsy combo with the sub-woofer...he lives with them, so his opinion is important to consider

Anyway one interesting thing is that the 15 takes up a lot of the baffle real estate and still produces a lot of bass...

bferguson · « **Reply #51 on:** 28 Mar 2020, 06:57 pm »

Are any owners willing to provide an updated review...still like them? could you describe +- experience, placement, associated equip? thanks

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #52 on:** 28 Mar 2020, 09:06 pm »

I’m more intrigued by the 15s than the 10s, but I don’t want the bigger baffles required for the bigger drivers.

DavidS · « **Reply #53 on:** 28 Mar 2020, 11:51 pm »

I have had Caintuck Lii 15s since about November - still loving them. Have a Triode Lab EL84 amp and Don Sachs preamp feeding them. I think the Triode Lab is something like 12 amps which seems just right about of grunt (had 2 watt Decware and it was good too)

I had Spatial M3s before - my room is small and as much as loved my M3s the Caintucks are better in detail and just much smaller physical presence in my small room. Have Gaia 3 footers underneath mine and then on hardwood floors - thought the footers really helped with solidifying the sound. With good recordings can get best I have heard dynamics plus in the room imaging, although if I had a larger room loved the Spatials and / or would look at something like building the Liiondias Open Baffle.

http://www.modelpromo.nl/audio-dandy/reviews/The%20Liiondias%20Open%20Baffle%20Speaker/The%20Liionidas%20Open%20Baffle%20speaker.pdf

Listening to the Allman Brothers right now - I think this combo does nice job with most types of music (they certainly rock better than the 2 watt Decware amp).

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #54 on:** 29 Mar 2020, 12:53 am »

David,

How the Lii 15s compare to the M3 in terms of tone?

Oh, and what amp were you using with the M3’s?

DavidS · « **Reply #55 on:** 29 Mar 2020, 05:10 am »

I really like the tone - think it is similar, I think where the Caintuck falls short of the Spatial Audio is impact - can't match the two big drivers and size and height of baffle. Curious about bigger baffles like the ones Decware is doing but have to be mindful of my small room and be happy with what it does (for example does low volume listening very nice - Patricia Barber right now).

Amp is different so not comparing apples - had Sachs Kootenay and a Mivera with the M3s - have gone to low power with the Lii 15s. Have a Schiit Aegir as well and is very nice with the Caintucks especially with Tortuga passive preamp I have - 20 watts solid state.

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #56 on:** 29 Mar 2020, 06:15 am »

If I'm not mistaken the Lii 15s are rated somewhere around 100 db sensitive, if that's true 20 watts is a lot of power. I'm surprise the Decware fell short. Did you get a chance to hear them with Mivera?

bferguson · « **Reply #57 on:** 29 Mar 2020, 11:55 am »

Thanks! When I heard them, the soundstage seemed like it was 6" tall and images were well defined. The punch and bass seemed to defy what I have read about OBs as there is very little baffle beyond what is necessary to house the speaker. What I understood was that you need a lot more baffle to generate proper bass and dynamics. Also room placement seemed to be really forgiving, serious listening having a sweet spot, but still sound pretty good when moved out of the way....are my impressions about right?

David have you tried a subwoofer to see if that addressed the impact issues?

DavidS · « **Reply #58 on:** 29 Mar 2020, 03:29 pm »

I found the Decware amp sounded great with jazz and female vocals but got easily confused by rock and not as well recorded music. It also didn't play as well with the Don Sachs preamp in fact was probably best with no preamp - was using the Aegir more often as it seemed better all rounder. The Triode Lab EL84 amp which is push pull design is just better than both all round (but for a price).

Randy's site says the Caintuck Lii 15s are 97 db efficient - so pretty up there.

Haven't tried a subwoofer in my system in some time, my room is small 12 x 13 and have too much crap already (see photo on page 2) but think it would be hard to setup in the room and really think the bass is pretty ok with the setup I have (I am not really a basshead).

One of the things I like about open baffle (vs monitors like my KEFs) is they sound great where ever I am - sitting at desk off axis now and sounds great, but also sounds great in my listening chair in class straight on listening triangle.

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #59 on:** 29 Mar 2020, 11:27 pm »

The Decware OPTs now are EDCOR, usually they are small and EI (not C core) on the SE amps.