[john1970]

Dear Bryston Owners,

Here is my current setup:
1) VMPS RM40 speakers
2) Bryston BP25 preamp with MPS1 power supply
4) Bryston 4B SST amp
5) Bryston BDA-1 DAC
6) Marantz CD Players (used as a transport)

At this stage I am considering upgrading to either the 4B SST SQ and the MPS2 Power Supply OR the 14B SST SQ?  Given these two choices which would you choose and why?  Thank you in advance for the feedback!

Cheers,

John

[95Dyna]

Hi John,

If your objective is to improve the sound of your system I'd go with the 14B.  With speakers like the RM40's I'm assuming you have a decent sized room and the bigger amp will make a more significant improvement than will a power supply upgrade to your preamp.  I've never heard the RM40's but they sure look like they would enjoy the 14B immensely.  I just installed a new pair of 7B's with my Infinity 9 Kappas which are also large 4-6 ohm, 90 db speakers followed by a new BP26P with MPS2 a week later.  Although both made significant improvements, the 7B addition easily made the bigger share of the total improvement.  Hope this helps.

Regards,

Bill

[werd]

Hello John

Normally i would say the mps2 upgrade first. Upgrades to powersupplies before amplification improves bass quality and pretty much everything else in the soundstage. But here i think the 4B is too much of mismatch with your speakers  when compared to the 14B. The 14B here is the way to go but the mps2 should be on your shortlist of upgrades afterwards.

[Mad Mr H]

Hi John,

I just looked up your speakers - are these them?

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_12_1/vmps-ribbon-monitor-40-speakers-2-2005.html

and here http://www.vmpsaudio.com/RM40.htm


Here are some options you may not have thought about.......


VPMS suggest you Bi amp these speakers, In which case a 4B SST sq to run the mid/hf and your current 4b sst for the bass would seem best use of your existing/new kit. This would also leave $ for the other upgrades.

If possible go for two 7b sst sq instead of one 14b sst sq - if you go the 14b route (2 x 7b is better option)


The upgrade of the power supply I do not believe a real change (happy to hear different opinions) - IF you change the power supply then there is a jumper within the bp25 to remove.

The mps2 has an additional power supply rail (+12) in addition to the mai +/-37 rails.

 
What I cant tell you is the change between sst and sst sq - I only have sst amps but have worked up from st range.

bi amp is worth considering in your situation.

Take care,

Andy.

[werd]

Hello folks

Upgrading powersupplies on all sources including preamps is paramount and should alway be considered first imo. Having gone from a bp25 mps1 to the mps2 i can personally comment on the upgrade. It gives your a better more robust soundstage, which results in better focus and bass slam for sure. The mps2 improved the timing and yet somehow relaxed the pace. Its a nice upgrade mps1 to mps2.

In John's case his speakers are wanting power it looks like and the 14B is a better matched imo. I am talking sonicaly and not functionally. Functionally the 4B will do the job no problem.

BTW those speakers are going to love the new square series amps. You are not going to be dissappointed at all. Ribbons and Bryston are like two peas in a pod. If you consider bi-ampin and finances are an issue(like 95% of us) consider the Torus first as it might sactisfy your sense of power in the soundstage.

[Mad Mr H]

Werd - Did you remove the jumper in the BP25 ???

The mps1 is really a transformer in a box all the hard work is done within the BP25.....

This is why I would be hesitant about going for the mps2, mps2 schematics are not on the bryston site so I cant check what it might offer (nor is the mps1 but I have had those in the past)

The MPS2 is visually better suited to the 26 range..........

Have you ever moved the mps2 away from the direct vertical line of your kit? That might also offer an advantage.




IF going for the 14B option I would try and steer you towards a pair of 7B's instead - there are reasons why this is a better option. I am considering selling my 14B to go towards a pair of 7B's


I do agree that power upgrades are well worth doing (as long as they are upgrades)

I use a mains filter system for every amp, without question this improves audio reproduction. I also filter mains to all other items in the audio chain, different filter systems but works well.

I am UK based so Torus is not a well known product here, UK based firms have moved away from transformer based filters to go to chokes, I have kept with transformer based products modified for balanced power (not allowed in the UK for normal use mains)

I mentioned using a 4B to bi amp as this was in the original posters options to buy list, the options were mps2 and 4b sst sq  or 14B sst sq, So my concept to bi amp with the first option and keeping existing I hope is suited to the situation and got the mps2 that werd also mentions. I will accept werd's thoughts on this as I never went for the mps2.

Andy.

[werd]

Hello Mad Mr H

I am not sure what you mean by jumpers? I sent bryston my serial # on my BP25 and they sent me the mps2. The mps 1 comes in at 29 watts and the mps2 comes in at 100 watts. i know that mps2 has potential for 5 components but every single component can benefit from this larger power supply. I can find the mps1 schematic on Bryston's site but cant find the mps2. The mps2 is going to have way better current delivery, and it does.

The mps2 needs to be sitting on the bp25, other way around and it doesnt look good imo. But its different and i like that.

[john1970]

Dear Everyone,

Thank you for the feedback.  I am leaning towards the 14B SST as well, even though it will set me back quite a bit more cash.  I agree that a pair of 7B SST's would be ideal, but I don't have room for them in my current rack.  I can always use some of the cash from the sale of my 4B SST to fund a future purchase of an MPS2 later down the road.

Thank you again,

John

[rydenfan]

I am helping a friend sell just a couple of month old 14B-SST2 that is in perfect condition. It could help make your decision much easier 

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=69888.0

[Mad Mr H]

I am not sure what you mean by jumpers?

Hi, let me try and explain better.....

Here is a picture of a standard "Jumper"

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=98860

They are about 5mm in size, the are used instead of switches to allow options to be selected, these are usually on the Printed Circuit Board (PCB) within equipment.

The BP25 had the option of mps1 or mps2 power supply (maybe only a date related option).

The MPS2 has the additional power supply rail (+12v) that the MPS1 does not,

This jumper I mention is to do with the additional power rail, From your serial number Bryston will know if you needed to remove ths jumper - The details are in the bottom left of the BP25 schematic.

The mps 1 comes in at 29 watts and the mps2 comes in at 100 watts. The mps2 is going to have way better current delivery, and it does.

True that it is able to supply a higher current than the mpsa1 - But this is related to the ability to power four units and the mps1 powers one unit.
In fact 29x4=116, so IF you were loading the mps2 with four devices then the mps1 would offer a higher supply demand ability per unit  than a fully loaded mps2.

I know that mps2 has potential for 5 components but every single component can benefit from this larger power supply.

The mps2 will power four units and has remote trigger options for five, you would usually use the related power/trigger for on unit and the additional trigger for amplifiers.
 

The mps2 needs to be sitting on the bp25, other way around and it doesnt look good imo.

Again I don't think I explained myself well  . If possible try and place the MPS2 to the side of the rest of the kit rather than in a vertical line, same with the amplifier, See if you hear any change.........

I understand this cant be a permenant option for you and may be difficult to try.

My tests with Bryston and other kit have shown excellent improvement.

It reduces the cross contamination of electronic fields.


These are only my opinions and I am very open minded to hear others opinions,

Andy.

[Mad Mr H]

I am leaning towards the 14B SST as well.  I agree that a pair of 7B SST's would be ideal, but I don't have room for them in my current rack.

Bryston suggest you move the amps as close to the speakers as possible, I totally agree with this if it is possible, so maybe you might consider a layout change, after all the amplifier upgrade is pretty much a very long term choice.

Andy.

[95Dyna]

Hi Mr. H,

I'm enjoying learning from your experiences in the field.  I have a question and and observation for which I would appreciate your thoughts to help John with his decision.  First, the devices that one would plug into the MPS2 are main preamp, phono pre and 10B Crossover.  How likely is it that the performance of the BP25 or 26 would be degraded while listening to the phono especially in the absense of crossovers (maybe this is a James Tanner question)?  Secondly, there is a school of thought that buying one quality amp to meet or exceed an application is superior to using two lesser amps in a bi-amp mode, especially if they are not a matched set.  I have just transitioned from biamping a pair of 200WPS stereo amps to a pair of 7B's (I'm so glad I was able to find my grounding straps!) and have found the single set of 7B's far superior.  Admittedly, my stereo amps were not 4B level so my improvement would be greater than the difference between 2 4B's biamped and a single 14/7B kit.  I'm suspecting this is an argument that has two camps where never the twain shall meet.

Regards,

Bill

[werd]

Mr. Mad H

Having problems quoting since they changed over, might have something to do with my comp though. Anyways about the jumpers. I see them now linking the inputs on the board. No i have never thought of removing those, seems interesting. However i run my bda 1 (rca) straight into the tape monitor and by- passes all the inputs and the signal doesnt go anywhere near them, from what i can see off the schematic anyways. It might be a good idea but i think quality rca plugs might do the same thing as your suggesting.

P.S oh and the MPS 2 blows the mps1 away ....  hehe

[werd]

Hi mad h

Dont see that jumper on the schematics. The only jumpers i can see are the ones connecting the inputs.

[john1970]

Dear Everyone,

Thank you for the advice.  I'll be going with the 14B SST SQ. and placing an order within the next couple of weeks.  Long term, it just seems like the smarter move.  Once I receive the 14B SST SQ. (around mid-September), my 4B SST will go up for sale.  If anyone here is interested please let me know by PM.  I have the 17" silver C-series faceplate.  I won't be placing a formal FS notice, until the 14B SST SQ. arrives, but I thought I would give users on the Bryston forum a heads up.

EDIT: I placed the 4B SST up for sale yesterday.

Cheers,

John

[john1970]

Hi John,

I just looked up your speakers - are these them?

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_12_1/vmps-ribbon-monitor-40-speakers-2-2005.html

and here http://www.vmpsaudio.com/RM40.htm

Here are some options you may not have thought about.......


VPMS suggest you Bi amp these speakers, In which case a 4B SST sq to run the mid/hf and your current 4b sst for the bass would seem best use of your existing/new kit. This would also leave $ for the other upgrades.

If possible go for two 7b sst sq instead of one 14b sst sq - if you go the 14b route (2 x 7b is better option)


The upgrade of the power supply I do not believe a real change (happy to hear different opinions) - IF you change the power supply then there is a jumper within the bp25 to remove.

The mps2 has an additional power supply rail (+12) in addition to the mai +/-37 rails.

 
What I cant tell you is the change between sst and sst sq - I only have sst amps but have worked up from st range.

bi amp is worth considering in your situation.

Take care,

Andy.

Andy,

The midrange and tweeters on the VMPS speakers are a relatively easy load compared to the woofers.  Would it be possible to biamp the midrange and tweeters using a smaller 2B or 3B amp?

Thank you for this idea,

John

[john1970]

Thank you to everyone for the feedback.  I have placed my 4B SST up for sale and while it is selling I will order a new MPS2 supply for my preamp.  Once it sells I will make the decision to go with either a 4B or 14B SST SQ.

Thank you,

John

[Mad Mr H]

Hi Mr. H,
First, the devices that one would plug into the MPS2 are main preamp, phono pre and 10B Crossover.  How likely is it that the performance of the BP25 or 26 would be degraded while listening to the phono especially in the absense of crossovers (maybe this is a James Tanner question)?

Secondly, there is a school of thought that buying one quality amp to meet or exceed an application is superior to using two lesser amps in a bi-amp mode, especially if they are not a matched set.  I have just transitioned from biamping a pair of 200WPS stereo amps to a pair of 7B's (I'm so glad I was able to find my grounding straps!) and have found the single set of 7B's far superior.  Admittedly, my stereo amps were not 4B level so my improvement would be greater than the difference between 2 4B's biamped and a single 14/7B kit.  I'm suspecting this is an argument that has two camps where never the twain shall meet.

Bill

Hi Bill,

I dont understand question one (Sorry).

Q2 - I would say that a single "excellent" amp will be far superior to two "average" amps in bi amp configuration.


I am a Pro Audio engineer, most of my higher end work is on active 3,4,5 way systems so for me that is a way of life.

But good bi amp system will use thesame amp you would have used on its own, THEN add an additional amp to reduce the demand on the first, in the Bryston range this is made easy with identical gain structure for the range.

Andy.

[Mad Mr H]

Andy,

The midrange and tweeters on the VMPS speakers are a relatively easy load compared to the woofers.  Would it be possible to biamp the midrange and tweeters using a smaller 2B or 3B amp?

Thank you for this idea,

John

It is possible to use any of the range, I would suggest the 3B at minimum, the 2B will still work.

For me the larger the amp the more headroom it has and the quicker transient response it is able to provide, this leads to an increase in detail as the leading edge of a note has more detail...........

others may have a different opinion but I am happy this concept works and is why I designed my own system with bi amp 7B's - NOT for high volume but for amazing detail........

I will post more on that in the next few weeks and as my new system is being wired........

[1oldguy]

Looking forward to it Andy.