Looking forward to getting the Eilish!!

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Merle

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Looking forward to getting the Eilish!!
« on: 16 Apr 2004, 12:41 pm »
Ok, I'm eagerly awaiting the arrival of my new pair of Shamrock Eilish speakers. This is the model I've wanted since the first day Mike posted the anouncement of it's existance. I've always been a small speaker freak and the Eilish looks to be right up my alley. I've got a brand new Jolida 707A, a brand new Rotel RT1080 tuner, and a brand new set of 24" Target speaker stands sitting in the bedroom waiting for them. Rest assured Mike that your babies will be welcomed into a loving, caring home. The Keelin's continue to amaze down in the basement. You mentioned trade-off's to meet a price point, where? I know there are better speakers out there but except for the truely obsessed, the Keelin's should satisfy most anyone interested in great music in the home. I've long been a fan of Peerless woofers and think you made a great choice with driver selection with the Keelin's and Eilish's. There are thousands of choices in loudspeakers nowadays, yet some truely sound better than others. Your's sound right. How do you design speakers? Are you more interested in measurements or do you rely on your ear? Both? Just curious. Care to shed any light on how a speaker is designed from conception? Do you start with the drivers, the price point, the cabinet size? Again, just curious how a great speaker comes into existance.

Shamrock Audio

Looking forward to getting the Eilish!!
« Reply #1 on: 17 Apr 2004, 08:58 pm »
Hi Merle,

Your speakers are coming along nicely, and will be ready soon. :)

By definition, loudspeakers are inherently flawed devices requiring a balancing of compromises to achieve an acceptable result. The fact that a loudspeaker must terminate its output into 4-dimensional space, and that space is always different for each end-user, only serves to complicate matters.  For these reasons alone there is no such thing as a "perfect" loudspeaker. They simply don't exist. :nono:

We approached the development of the Eilish and Keelin differently than we did the Eire. When we were first setting the criteria for the Eire we had been doing custom work exclusively since 1993. The Eire was our first commercial offering and we wanted to make a product that would compete against any similar product (ie. 2-driver, 2-way, either stand-mounted or floor-standing), regardless of cost. Not a small undertaking when you consider the sea of competing products - and some very good ones to boot. Therefore, every decision we made was based on achieving that goal. Reviewers, and more importantly, Eire owners are best suited to speak to the results of our efforts.

Nevertheless, I don't know that we were the first, but we were one of the very first loudspeaker companies to be internet focused and direct-sales only when we opened our web site and introduced the Eire in March of 1997.

For the Eilish and Keelin speakers, we set similar criteria in terms of competing with similar type products, but this time at a particular price-point. Simply due to the financial constraints you may not get to do all the things in design and engineering that you might like to do. However, that shouldn't preclude your ability to make a well-engineered, good-value product.

In terms of developing a product, it's really a mix of measurements and subjective evaluation. Both are needed to achieve an acceptable balance of trade-off's. There are extreme positions on both sides of that equation. I'm not willing to throw one out in favor of the other. Both are needed.

Once the criteria is set, choosing the drivers is the next step. There are many ways to approach this depending on several factors. In general, you can expect to go through lots of potential driver spec-sheets while narrowing down your choices for suitability for your particular application. Once you arrive at a few viable candidates, you can begin the process of elimination by direct measurement and evaluation. Eventually you'll arrive at a driver compliment that represents a balance of trade-off's (have I said that before?), that is acceptable for the given criteria.

Acoustical measurements are nearly meaningless at this point in terms of x-over design as you don't have a final enclosure to measure the drivers in.  Designing the enclosure is a prerequisite to beginning any x-over work. You can expect to build several prototype enclosures dealing with the low-frequency response of the driver in the enclosure and internal cabinet issues before even looking at any acoustical issues. Then, you may well find acoustical issues that require more enclosure modifications, and you begin the process over again.

Okay, you now have the drivers, the enclosure, and the cosmetics worked-out and are ready to go after the x-over network. This is the ball-game. Expect to spend many hours with your measurements, tools, and experience to develop what "looks" like an acceptable balance of trade-off's (there's that phrase again). The x-over gets built and the system is evaluated both objectively and subjectively.  Expect to go through this process at least a few times before an acceptable balance of trade-off's is achieved. (Getting the idea?)  :)

We don't make perfect loudspeakers - no one does. Measurements are not the final arbiter, nor are subjective opinions. However, measurements are a whole lot easier to defend. :banghead:

This is a very broad subject. I hope I've given you a general idea of the process. How I go about determining what's acceptable and at what cost is based on something like 25-years tortureing myself with these things. In the end, what drives me is the satisfaction of each and every client who chooses to do business with us. If you don't like the results of our efforts, who cares about the how or why? :!:

Merle

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Looking forward to getting the Eilish!!
« Reply #2 on: 18 Apr 2004, 03:19 am »
Excellent! Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my questions. You should post your response on your website, it is quite informative. Thanks again!

lonewolfny42

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Looking forward to getting the Eilish!!
« Reply #3 on: 2 May 2004, 04:39 am »
Merle, Did they arrive yet ? Look excellent in walnut. Enjoy !! :)

Merle

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Looking forward to getting the Eilish!!
« Reply #4 on: 3 May 2004, 02:38 pm »
The Eilish's are to be delivered today! As of 10:30 am, the Fed-Ex website shows "on vehicle for delivery". Should be a good evening! My Jolida 707A is sitting there waiting...