AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Salk Signature Sound => Topic started by: jsalk on 3 Nov 2014, 09:17 pm
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We have a friend who shall remain unnamed (Pete didn't want me to indicate these were his new Exoticas). While we were in the process of designing the Exotica 3's, he had plenty of time to explore design ideas. So he designed a rather novel set of cabinets and turned the project over to us to execute.
He wanted separate cabinets for the woofer section and the midrange/tweeter section. He wanted textured copper on the front baffles and had a sheet of raw textured copper sent to us. He specified everything down to the outriggers, feet, binding posts, etc.
While it may look simple, this was probably one of the most complicated builds we had ever done. Working with the copper was very tricky, so we had to work slow.
Here are the results...
(http://salksound.com/gallery/exotica3/e3-pete.jpg)
Here's a side shot...
(http://salksound.com/gallery/exotica3/e3-pete-side.jpg)
And a shot from the rear...
(http://salksound.com/gallery/exotica3/e3-pete-rear.jpg)
On Friday (Halloween), Pete and Brenda showed up with cases Pete had built for the tops, bottoms and outriggers - each appropriately sized and labeled.
While this pair required a lot of extra labor and we wouldn't necessarily want to duplicate again, it was fun to see if we could turn Pete's dream into reality.
Happy listening (name withheld upon request)...
- Jim
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I think I know who that P is. :)
Exceptional work Jim.
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OMG! OMG! OMG! :drool:
Bob
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Those are officially the coolest Salk speakers to date. Dang! :notworthy: :angel: :beer: :rock:
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Wowsa! Outstanding! Highest marks!
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Very very cool. Excellent work Jim! :thumb: Pete (BRM), we all look forward to your thoughts and impressions. Of course a room picture is needed too.
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Wasn't expecting that! Amazing work Jim and very nice choices Pete. :thumb:
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Speechless!!!!!! :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
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Those are the greatest looking pair of speakers I've ever seen.
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Nice modern look!
Now that's thinking outside the box(es)!
Excellent job as usual Salk Sound!
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Beautiful work. :thumb:!
Are those tiny spikes separating the woofer enclosure from tweeter/midrange box?
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I don't see what took so long on those baffles...you mean it took more than a pair of Tin Snips and a couple of cold ones? Kidding of course!
I was wondering if these mythical beasts would ever see the light of day. No more wondering!
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Not sure where to start. Have not come to the realization that they are really my speakers. Sure, they're sitting in my house, but they are surreal. Huge kudos to the team for putting up with my request and having to work way outside the standard process flow.
Took a quick shot of the team on Friday posing with the speakers. Missing is Robert, who left early for Halloween activities.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=108062)
Luis, Jim, Mary, Tim, and Mac. Thank you guys!! Appreciate all your craftsmanship and friendly service!!!
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Absolutely stunning :drool:
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Beautiful! :thumb:
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These look amazing!
Have you had much time to listen to them? Any impressions now that they are home and in your private space?
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These look amazing!
Have you had much time to listen to them? Any impressions now that they are home and in your private space?
Sold my amp. New amps show tomorrow, on my birthday!
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Beautiful work. :thumb:!
Are those tiny spikes separating the woofer enclosure from tweeter/midrange box?
Yes. ViaBlue spikes into a different brand cup (larger). The left is matched to the left and vice versa due to tolerances of locating the spikes, recesses in the bass modules, and then gluing in of the cups. I have the bas modules labeled as right and left now.
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I have always admired the cabinetry of Salk speakers, but these definitely are the best I've seen. Absolutely incredible! :thumb:
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Sold my amp. New amps show tomorrow, on my birthday!
Sweet. Happy birthday and enjoy!
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Those look amazing!!! :thumb:
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Great timing on delivery! One more thought: those Salks have some seriously good looking rears :thumb:
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Very Happy Birthday to the one who shall remain nameless :thumb:
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Very Happy Birthday to the one who shall remain nameless :thumb:
Ha! Well after the blue thing I wasn't sure I should let Jim post this creation. :nono:
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Ha! Well after the blue thing I wasn't sure I should let Jim post this creation. :nono:
They turned out great!
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I spent a ton, and I mean a ton, of time sketching, buying copper samples, researching paints, finding all the detail parts for this project. Started really getting into the design phase in late June. I downloaded a CAD program and designed the baseplate, etc.
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Now that's a finish! Veneer? pffft. Now we're talking up to date, styling, worthy of a modern home and something that makes Jim a badass.
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Now that's a finish! Veneer? pffft. Now we're talking up to date, styling, worthy of a modern home and something that makes Jim a badass.
Thanks. I tried to find a veneer that was different or worthy but just came up with the same boring results. One day when I was agonizing over the finish I spouted out that I really wanted copper....and that was it! I grew up in a copper family - my dad was a 40 year Revere Copper & Brass R&D employee, we had copper everywhere. Grew up standing on roofs installing copper snow flashing with my dad, learned to solder and braze at 10 years. My grandfather, who I never met, made copper stills on the side for extra cash in the 30's. So why the heck not.
My original paint idea was black as I thought it was the perfect match. But I have always wanted white and a more modern look, so my wife, who has a styling eye, encouraged me to go white.
Looked at every automotive paint in any shade of white there was and finally we chose by process of elimination in both indoor and outdoor lighting, a Hyundai tri-coat metallic white. Not too white and not too yellow or gray.
Found anniversary edition WBT's in white.
Provided copper colored cable sleeving.
Bought solid copper balls for the feet. Drilled them, tapped them, inserted stainless set screws, and polished, polished, and polished some more. Then sealed them in clear. (good excuse to buy that new bench grinder)
Base-plates are 3/8" hot rolled steel. Had them plasma cut. Drilled and tapped them (not easy with hot rolled), sanded them, primed them, and painted them - twice. The steel plates alone are over 20 lbs. each before copper.
The team also made me grills which I was not expecting. They also made me white standard plinths for back-ups. My crates fit perfectly and provided 100% assurance no damage would occur during that 3 hour drive and handling.
The system is getting overhauled and 1/2 of it has begun - new amps, speaker cables, power conditioner. Can't wait for everything to come together this week. Friday is a vacation day!
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The system is getting overhauled and 1/2 of it has begun - new amps, speaker cables, power conditioner. Can't wait for everything to come together this week. Friday is a vacation day!
OK, I'll be the one to ask the obvious question -- what amps, cables and power conditioner are you gonna mate with your new speakers?
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I wanted Class A and my RMAF searching led me to tubed amps first, but finally I zeroed in on solid state (for many technical reasons). My two top contenders were Pass XA30.8 and Electrocompaniet anything. I ended up with EC AW180 mono blocks. Should be plenty of power for 92 db upper cabinets.
Bought some Acoustic Zen Hologram 6 foot SC's in great condition - highly rated.
Looked for a Velocitor at my price but could not make the deal so I went with an Acoustic Revive RTP-4. That should be here Wednesday.
Am reworking my outlet box with Maestros and Furutechs and some tourmaline crystals to try and keep up with the RTP-4.
And for kicks I made matching copper sleeved power cables for the bass modules.
In 2015 I am looking at dacs and preamps and if the AZ cables show promise then either more AZ IC's or perhaps High Fidelity IC's.
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Amazing speakers. The Electrocompaniet and Salk sound like another winning combination, this could the best B'Day ever! (more like a birthday week)
Wayne
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HOLY......Pete (and Jim et al), those E3's are simply fantastic. Wonderful wonderful. Many congrats to all. :thumb: :thumb:
Pete, don't forget to let us know how the beauties sound and a little about their synergy with the ECs.
Oh yeah, and Happy Birthday! :birthday:
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I was going to buy Electrocompaniet at one point. Have NCores and a Ultimate 70 (with XF2 Mullard EL34s). I will go back to Electrocompaniet if the 1625 amps don't work out on my Exoticas. 110 Watts per channel from 4 1625 tubes. I am looking for speaker cables. Currently using Synergistic Research Tesla Accelerators, but they are short (8 feet), I need to get 10, so I am on the lookout. I am using a Lampizator Big 7 Dac, Dave's Cables, a Tortuga LDR (this will be the next change I think) and a headless MacMini with an LPS.
I am in the process of figuring out power. I have built a few 12 volt trigger boxes that I am currently using (fed off of an UberBuss). I have never really heard much difference with power, so I am not sure where I want to go here. I also picked up a WattBox IP controlled power strip. Thinking I may use that.
Shawn
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Beautiful speakers. And I adore the sound of the Exotica 3s. My favorite of what I have heard from Salk. And top 5 of all the speakers I heard at RMAF.
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Hey BRM,
Would you mind sharing your thoughts on the need or desire to have the tweeter/midrange in separate cabinets. When I read that you were planning on doing this I guess I was expecting a little more drastic change to the design, but it looks like a standard E3 cabinets with just a little space in between.
I think it was a good call on going with the white!
-Tom
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Hey BRM,
Would you mind sharing your thoughts on the need or desire to have the tweeter/midrange in separate cabinets. When I read that you were planning on doing this I guess I was expecting a little more drastic change to the design, but it looks like a standard E3 cabinets with just a little space in between.
I think it was a good call on going with the white!
-Tom
Simple: I wanted to keep the weight down for moving them. Sure, I end up with 4 pieces, but I kept the size and weight down to where I can move them w/o blowing out my back. And they fit into vehicles better, even in the crates.
Was there any thought that the speaker would perform better? Not really. I actually anticipated the upper rattling due to the lower energy but that has not occured and my backup plan was to change to a thick piece of foam between them if need be (plenty of extra from the shipping crate build).
I wanted the smallest crack between them and we got pretty close - there is a brow on the upper hiding the recessed spikes. I also wanted very sharp edges all around for a super modern look but Jim talked me out of it for acoustic reasons. As it turns out the cabinets are different dimensions than the one piece because the volume relationships between the upper section and lower section change when they are not integral. So I had to go back and modify my baseplate design to take on the deeper cabinet dimension.
Everything about this build was custom except the drivers and crossover!
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Amazing speakers. The Electrocompaniet and Salk sound like another winning combination, this could the best B'Day ever! (more like a birthday week)
Wayne
Yeah, I like that idea Wayne, a week of excitement!
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I wanted Class A and my RMAF searching led me to tubed amps first, but finally I zeroed in on solid state (for many technical reasons). My two top contenders were Pass XA30.8 and Electrocompaniet anything. I ended up with EC AW180 mono blocks. Should be plenty of power for 92 db upper cabinets.
Pete, congrats on those amazing speakers!
Can I ask you to belabor the amp search a bit more? I'm considering PrimaLuna HP power amp with KT120s, which if run as a mono block, would provide 90 watts in triode mode (appx double if put in ultra linear). These are about $8k/pr.
The Parasound JC1 can provide up to 10W/25W Class A if set to low/high bias mode. Did this not make the short list?
Thanks for any input. Enjoy! Jon
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Pete, congrats on those amazing speakers!
Can I ask you to belabor the amp search a bit more? I'm considering PrimaLuna HP power amp with KT120s, which if run as a mono block, would provide 90 watts in triode mode (appx double if put in ultra linear). These are about $8k/pr.
The Parasound JC1 can provide up to 10W/25W Class A if set to low/high bias mode. Did this not make the short list?
Thanks for any input. Enjoy! Jon
I read alot. Bunches of reviews online including archives in Audiogon, Audio Asylum, here, etc. I look for trends in analyses, watch for blowhards, and try to sift for honest assessments and then draw conclusions. When you see repeated comments from different sources postively or negatively about a certain product then you start to feel good about working your way through the funnel.
My first choice was a set of used Lamm ML1.1's at 90 watts in Class A but the darned tubes take a beating and glow like toasters. Plenty of power for 92 db, very highly rated, and for the most part reliable units. I had lots of encouragement at RMAF to go tubes but the more I looked, the more I saw reliability and longevity the issue with Class A tubes (and sockets). I hate to say I am lazy, because I don't believe I am, but it is a heck of a lot easier to own Class A in solid state form.
Can't comment on PrimaLuna, but if I was looking at tubes I'd contact Hugh and look at the Melody gear as well. As for Parasound, very good company, great crew, but the common theme I read was that while powerful, they are consistently lean sounding.
In comparison, everything I found about the new Pass .8 series was exceedingly positive (and you need to sift through the fanboyism) but I was a little concerned that even up to 60 watts Class A was going to be barely enough headroom. The larger amps were out of my price range.
Everything, and I mean everything I found out about EC gear was positive. "Tube like", "smooth", "powerful" were consistent themes. I spoke with the EC sales rep at RMAF and was inspired by their thoroughness outside of the independent reviews I did before and after the show. I also contacted customer service and inquired about circuitry changes over time and how to tell one model from the next - very little has changed in their designs. List on those 180's is now $5800 each. I found 2 pair for sale and actually bought the more expensive pair in the states, with a warranty no less, for a very good cash price. It was kind of a no-brainer to give them a try and be future-proof in the power output stat.
Class A will also reduce the need to power up my space heater in my basement as well! ha These monos are 48 lbs. each as well. Hello chiropractor.
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Those are beautiful! I've always lusted after Salks.
A noob question though....does the choice of a copper face impact the sound? I'm use to front baffles trying to be thick and stiff pieces if MDF. We these glued on?
Bob
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Simply stunning BRM :thumb: Well planned, and with the artisan execution of Jim & company (a known given), true sonic works of art. Truly Birthday presents to be dreamed of.
Here's wishing a Happy Birthday, and many Happy Unbirthdays following as you get the new system dialed in. :beer:
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Well done. Absolutely one of a kind. :thumb:
I bet they sound great. Now I have speaker envy. :wink:
I still would have gone tubes.... :peek:
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I still would have gone tubes.... :peek:
I know, I know!!
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Congratulations Pete on another awesome looking pair of Salk's. Hope you will be kind enough to share some picks of their final sitting place within your room.
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Well Big'un you certainly have outdone you're self this time ! :thumb:
I have had interest in upgrading for about a year now and with the development of Exotica 3's I have been waiting to see yours and the others since the prototype introduction.
You truly have a unique styled pair, the copper is one of a kind I'm sure. My vote from the first was on the 2-cabinet design, base on convenience of weight and mobility. The single cabinet is fine, depending on cost difference it still maybe the optimum choice. However when you are spending this much its best to get what you want ! I am very impressed with you're attention to detail with the associated parts of the speaker, very well done! :thumb:
I guess the biggest surprise to me is the choice of the amp. I have never had the opportunity to hear the Electrocompaniet equipment but I am aware of the brands very good reputation. I will have to agree with your choice of solid state over tubes, not that the "tube sound" is inferior to Solid State, its my realization that playing with tubes would not be my game after the newness of the experience was over ( that a personal reflection knowing myself). But a significant point is when SS amps go beyond the typical designs, offering advanced technology, such as (low to none) feedback implemented to the different stages of the amp for one, puts this Solid State amp in a different league. The reported sound character of the EC AW180 mono blocks uses terms like accurate, realistic upper bass / lower midrange, excellent reproduction of acoustic music. The reproduction of Horns, Cello, wood instr. and piano are reported to be wonderful. Also the report that the amp does not give the "front Row effect", that is it doesn't force the forward feeling of being in the front row but rather puts you where the recording intends. Now I have not idea if these stated reflections of the amp sounds are typical hype or are a truthful, agreeable, nature of its sound. BUT I can't think of a better assessment where a SS amp needs improvement. This amp should go great with the stated qualities of the Exotica drivers!
Anyway sorry for the long drawnout post but I must admit I am very impress with your new system and would love to hear it.
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I am waiting for Pete's comments on the amps. It's sort of the exact direction I would go if I didn't do tubes all around.
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Wow, those are just stunning. Love the idea of a class A amp for the uppers. I think that makes a ton of sense with the powered lower section.
Any anticipated acoustic impact of the copper on the front?
While I'm no longer using Butler Audio, they make an unreal Hybrid Tube/Solid state amp called the Monad's that are pretty darn trick also. You know... in case you get an itch down the road.
Stunning speakers and attention to detail by all involved. Very, very nice!
Breaking them in with some Led Zeppelin remasters? :thumb: If you need any heavier stuff... you know where to find me. 8)
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I literally threw all the connections together with zero power conditioning. Have goosebumps right now. Unbelievable!
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Grand, isn't it?
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Grand, isn't it?
Freakin' grand. Grande grand.
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Breaking them in with some Led Zeppelin remasters? :thumb: If you need any heavier stuff... you know where to find me. 8)
Yeah, I need to get you over here. I've got crap strewn all over right now.
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I need to figure out some room treatments. Know of any with good WAF?
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Really nice Exoticas!
I need to figure out some room treatments. Know of any with good WAF?
GIK Acoustics art panel
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What are the external dimensions of the top and bottom modules?
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What are the external dimensions of the top and bottom modules?
Tops are 17 x 17 x 10.5
Bottoms are 26.5? x 17 x 10.5
Independent of baseplates and protrusions.
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Yeah, I need to get you over here. I've got crap strewn all over right now.
We should do a home and home series... my room still a partial mess also. Been traveling way too much for work. Classe equipment now driving the SS8's, it's outstanding.
I'd love to hear those exotica's.
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Wow! Those look fantastic! I can only imagine how great they sound. Congratulations!
-Dave
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hey can you explain the speaker connections?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=108123)
From the amp/ speaker connections doe it travel to the upper box or does it feed into the bass amp?
thanks
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The signal goes up I believe, but if you turn off the bass module, the upper will still play like a monitor. Ask me how I know this. :duh:
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I suppose you know because you tried it?
But does it feed the bass amp module first, then out to the upper box ( tweeter / mid range). Or does it feed from amp/speaker connections to both?
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I suppose you know because you tried it?
But does it feed the bass amp module first, then out to the upper box ( tweeter / mid range). Or does it feed from amp/speaker connections to both?
It seems like there would only be one option here. The amplified signal for the upper cabinet enters at the speaker posts and travels up through the connector that links the bottom and top cabinets. This signal would not have anything to do with the built in amp. The amp should receive its (non-amplified) signal through the XLR input and then amplify that signal and send it to the woofers in the lower box. Did I get that right?? Just my thoughts from looking at the photo.
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Nope. The amp receives the signal from the binding posts. The amp is internally connected to the binding posts. A separate wire goes from the binding posts to the cross over for the umbilical I imagine. Mine is internal in the cabinet.
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I hadn't thought about the crossover--I was thinking in separate powered subwoofer terms. Doesn't the amp need an un-amplified signal? How does that work from the binding posts? Didn't mean to derail the thread with technicalities. :D
On another note...BRM, who did the metal work for the bases? When Jim built my custom sub a while back, I used a third party to build a metal base, so just curious what you did.
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On another note...BRM, who did the metal work for the bases? When Jim built my custom sub a while back, I used a third party to build a metal base, so just curious what you did.
I had a company that I have used several times cut my parts for me. I did not use Jim for the baseplates.
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On a sound note, the EC amps are AUTHORITATIVE, OUT OF THE WAY, SMOOTH, CLEAR!
The speakers sound 10 times better than I heard them at Axpona or RMAF. They absolutely can play with such clarity and imaging in my system it is just astounding. At the shows I would not have put these in the same league as some of the $50k+ speakers, but hearing what they can do in my system, I am thoroughly convinced they are competing with some very expensive designs. I have shaken the rafters w/o even trying and had instruments laid out in very segregated placements from left to right that I am experiencing familiar music on a new level. The "realness" of voices and instruments is spooky. I said the SS8's were different. They are different animals, but the E3's are wayyyyy better. Hands down.
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On a sound note, the EC amps are AUTHORITATIVE, OUT OF THE WAY, SMOOTH, CLEAR!
The speakers sound 10 times better than I heard them at Axpona or RMAF. They absolutely can play with such clarity and imaging in my system it is just astounding. At the shows I would not have put these in the same league as some of the $50k+ speakers, but hearing what they can do in my system, I am thoroughly convinced they are competing with some very expensive designs. I have shaken the rafters w/o even trying and had instruments laid out in very segregated placements from left to right that I am experiencing familiar music on a new level. The "realness" of voices and instruments is spooky. I said the SS8's were different. They are different animals, but the E3's are wayyyyy better. Hands down.
Man, this is making the wait for mine killer long. :duh:
Glad you are loving them. I put a down payment unheard, so encouragement is great to read.
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Doesn't the amp need an un-amplified signal? How does that work from the binding posts?
I assume that with the proper circuitry and a very high input impedance sub amplifier, the sub can derive its input signal from the speaker input with negligible loading, just like the REL subwoofers do.
Steve
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I'm using my brothers powered subwoofer with my HT3's. You can hook it up either way. I bought cables and use a line out from my preamp, my brother hooks it up with the amplified signal from the speaker leads. On the Rythmic website you can see a closeup of the amp with the different options for hook-up.
Awesome Pete!
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Not to contradict you, but if you hook the sub up by LFE in and the speaker cables on these, the second the signal hits the amp, the sub will likely blow. You would have double signal coming in below the crossover point in your receiver. DO NOT DO THIS WITH EXOTICA 3s. That is all.
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Not to contradict you, but if you hook the sub up by LFE in and the speaker cables on these, the second the signal hits the amp, the sub will likely blow. You would have double signal coming in below the crossover point in your receiver. DO NOT DO THIS WITH EXOTICA 3s. That is all.
Sorry if I confused anyone. I was simply trying to explain that on many powered sub woofers you have the option to hook up either way, Line Out, or the powered speaker leads from the main amp.
For sure, don't take your Exoticas apart and rewire them, just use the speakers connections provided.
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Just to make things clear, this model Rythmik plate amp has two line-level inputs - RCA and mini-XLR - but no external speaker level inputs.
When we designed the Extocia 3's, we did not want to require the owner to use an additional line-level input to the woofer section. So we tapped into the amplifier internally to provide a speaker-level input.
The result is that the amplifier signal applied to the binding posts feeds both the crossover for the midrange and tweeter as well as the speaker level input to the amp. When used in this fashion, you cannot use the line-level inputs to the woofer section at the same time. If you did, the output of your amp would be feeding the output of your preamp and disaster would likely result.
- Jim
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The result is that the amplifier signal applied to the binding posts feeds both the crossover for the midrange and tweeter as well as the speaker level input to the amp. When used in this fashion, you cannot use the line-level inputs to the woofer section at the same time. If you did, the output of your amp would be feeding the output of your preamp and disaster would likely result.
It would seem that it might be a good idea to internally disable the line inputs to avoid the possibility of someone with a combination stereo/HT setup connecting an HT LFE output to them. Perhaps a rare scenario, but .....
Steve
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Jim,
It sounds like you should deactivate the input on the amp so someone down the road couldn't make that mistake.
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I dont have a cage on mine but others might to prevent fiddling with inputs snd settings.
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I have a cage as 2.5 year olds have wandering fingers.
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I dont have a cage on mine but others might to prevent fiddling with inputs snd settings.
I have a cage as 2.5 year olds have wandering fingers.
This still will not help what Steve and I posted at the same time though.
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We ship these speakers with cages over all inputs and adjustments. So the user would have to go to great lengths to remove the cage to gain access to those inputs. We don't expect any of our owners to do that since there are no controls (other than perhaps gain) which should ever be changed.
- Jim
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And I hope that a person getting speakers of this caliber will listen to the maker of the speakers or investigate them before buying... I don't think it is as simple as clipping 2 wires.
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How much was this custom job?
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Since Pete supplied the plates, footers, binding posts, finish and a large sheet of raw textured copper, I don't know what costs were involved with those parts. But I would guess that the price would be around $15,000 when all was said and done.
- Jim
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Let's see how bad an iPad photo comes out here:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=108169)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=108170)
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Just about as bad as one can imagine. :lol:
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Just about as bad as one can imagine. :lol:
Yup
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That's bad. Can you say "Nikon"?
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I dunno, that's a pretty kewl effect on the sides of speakers. I thought they were solid white on the sides. :D
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I am pretty sure Bigfoot is in the back of those pictures...
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I've certainly seen better pictures from an iPhone. Is there a Newspaper/Newsprint effect setting I don't know about or is it a result of very low available light?
Steve
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I am pretty sure Bigfoot is in the back of those pictures...
Bigfoot: The Audiophile
Here we go! :lol:
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BRM,
I see that you have a rack directly behind the speaker. Are you noticing any deleterious effects from that? I have a similar looking audio rack that takes up a large amount of the width of the room. I keep wondering if it is something I am going to have to replace or not when my E3s arrive.
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Beautiful speakers Pete. I really like the choice of finishes. Im sure they sound fantastic as Jim's speakers always do.
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Beautiful speakers Pete. I really like the choice of finishes. Im sure they sound fantastic as Jim's speakers always do.
Thanks Bill!
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BRM,
I see that you have a rack directly behind the speaker. Are you noticing any deleterious effects from that? I have a similar looking audio rack that takes up a large amount of the width of the room. I keep wondering if it is something I am going to have to replace or not when my E3s arrive.
Can't say it is a problem. The shelf is 24" deep and the speaker backs are 11 inches from it. The way I look at it is sound will blow right through the open cavities so it is invisible to the speaker performance. Certainly no bass build up due to the shelves.
Eventually I will run some sweeps which should be interesting with these beasts.
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Beautiful speakers Pete. I really like the choice of finishes. Im sure they sound fantastic as Jim's speakers always do.
Blast from the past! Where have you been!?!?!!
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Overdue, in-process, photos. Have to clean up the one power cord mess in the front tomorrow.
The Acoustic Revive is quite the unit. It came with a base that is filled with quartz crystals. It seems to energize the sound.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=108215)
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For some reason I only bought 2 right angle connectors before the build so I bought 2 more this week and rewired the connection between top and bottom to get to the look I was after. And of course I wired them with solid silver wire in teflon tubing!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=108216)
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And of course I wired them with solid silver wire in teflon tubing!
What wire did you use in the cabinet?
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Pete,
I've let this thread run long enough so that I don't feel bad about finally taking my shot at you. :D
I'm so happy you finally gave in and realized that subwoofers are the only way to go for music. I know you had the cabinets separated only to further the actual feel of speakers with separate subwoofers. Nice work! :P Welcome to the dark side. 8) Now you can remove that "blasphemy" comment.
On a serious note, congrats on the new speakers. Sounds like they might be more than what you hoped for.
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They look good in there. Will you be replacing the cushion on your chair with one that is copper colored? That would be my only suggestion :thumb:
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As much as I like AVA, have you thought about letting Jim borrow your DAC/pre/amp for his next show to show off his Exoticas?
Btw, I think the blue cushion goes well your TRL (he says with a lisp)! :roll:
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Pete,
I've let this thread run long enough so that I don't feel bad about finally taking my shot at you. :D
I'm so happy you finally gave in and realized that subwoofers are the only way to go for music. I know you had the cabinets separated only to further the actual feel of speakers with separate subwoofers. Nice work! :P Welcome to the dark side. 8) Now you can remove that "blasphemy" comment.
On a serious note, congrats on the new speakers. Sounds like they might be more than what you hoped for.
This is a full range speaker with puny 8 inch woofers, not giant 15 inch subwoofers. Please..... :guns:
Still not a blasphemer! :wink:
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As much as I like AVA, have you thought about letting Jim borrow your DAC/pre/amp for his next show to show off his Exoticas?
Btw, I think the blue cushion goes well your TRL (he says with a lisp)! :roll:
I called him yesterday to thank him for such wonderful speakers. I did mention that compared to RMAF, my setup is bringing out a level of sound that I only thought possible in rooms like Von Schweikert and Focal at the show. Pretty close to the VS room and in the same "family" of sound as the Focal (ease of delivery with a kick you in the balls result). Redbook never sounded so good in my world, ever. 96/24 is sublime.
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This is a full range speaker with puny 8 inch woofers, not giant 15 inch subwoofers. Please..... :guns:
Still not a blasphemer! :wink:
This is a full range speaker with puny 8 inch woofers, not giant 15 inch subwoofers. Please..... :guns:
Still not a blasphemer! :wink:
No way man...I bet your system is doing wonders for the lower syth bass, pipe organ, percussion, double bass, tuba, etc. Two 8's per side with 600W a side. With the servo controll I bet they kick like some 12's on the right tunes. Oh, you are playing low bass, LOL! The best of both worlds I guess. I'm sure other 2 ch/no sub purist will be envious when they hear the clean low bass they've been missing.
Amazing design choice. Congrats!!!
Are you still in MI? I'm from the area myself but reside in IN. You should really consider lending those to Jim to show at 2015 AXPONA!
Then see if XTC will send one of the copper Legacy SE racks with white shelves:
(http://xtc-racks.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/legacy_se_copper4.jpg)
Would WOW, the masses!
However, I guess Jim does not wat to go through another on of these builds again.
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Wanted to throw in a few pics with the grills on and the nameplates attached to inside surfaces:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=108492)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=108493)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=108494)
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Not sure where to start. Have not come to the realization that they are really my speakers. Sure, they're sitting in my house, but they are surreal. Huge kudos to the team for putting up with my request and having to work way outside the standard process flow.
Took a quick shot of the team on Friday posing with the speakers. Missing is Robert, who left early for Halloween activities.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=108062)
Luis, Jim, Mary, Tim, and Mac. Thank you guys!! Appreciate all your craftsmanship and friendly service!!!
Just wanted to say I thought this was very cool of you to post a pic of the people behind the scenes there at Salk. I think they deserve some good recognition from time to time for all the exceptional craftsmanship they do!
Great job Team Salk!
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Are you still in MI? I'm from the area myself but reside in IN. You should really consider lending those to Jim to show at 2015 AXPONA!
Then see if XTC will send one of the copper Legacy SE racks with white shelves:
However, I guess Jim does not wat to go through another on of these builds again.
I am willing to let Jim use my speakers for any purpose he sees fit. But, I don't think he wants to be in the business of building speakers like this regularly. It was a pita to pull off. :duh:
You should shoot up for a listen.
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Really like the side view and with the grills on!!! :thumb:
Do you plan to continue using the Dude preamp or do you have something else in mind?
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Really like the side view and with the grills on!!! :thumb:
Do you plan to continue using the Dude preamp or do you have something else in mind?
Lack of remote control is wearing on me, but the damn preamp is so awesome. I am considering many options including a Bent or perhaps a dac that acts like a preamp (although many who do this miss the preamp in the chain). But I'll tell you what, it sounds mighty fine. Now if I can swing some High Fidelity cables to try....
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Lack of remote control is wearing on me, but the damn preamp is so awesome. I am considering many options including a Bent or perhaps a dac that acts like a preamp (although many who do this miss the preamp in the chain). But I'll tell you what, it sounds mighty fine. Now if I can swing some High Fidelity cables to try....
Are your amps fully balanced?
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So, I see in the picture, you have the E3's next to the E3 Special Editions (aka Big Red's ). Did the guys at Salk plug in the SE's and do a side by side? Would be interested to know how different they are from the standard E3's.
Thanks
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Are your amps fully balanced?
I think they are as they only have balanced inputs. Work great single ended though. If the Bent were better I would definitely get a balanced version. Don't like that you can only get the gold case and not the black or some other color. I actually think a solid state EC pre might also be a good choice.
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So, I see in the picture, you have the E3's next to the E3 Special Editions (aka Big Red's ). Did the guys at Salk plug in the SE's and do a side by side? Would be interested to know how different they are from the standard E3's.
Thanks
Don't know if they did. I doubt it. But I'm sure mine sound better. :wink:
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Please. Mine are in Brooklyn. Everything in NY is better. Thus, mine rule the roost.
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You should shoot up for a listen.
Well, I'm 2 Hours away from Kalamazoo so I might have to take you up on that. My listen the Exotica's was brief at the show.
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Well, I'm 2 Hours away from Kalamazoo so I might have to take you up on that. My listen the Exotica's was brief at the show.
I'm up for it.
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Well cool then, lets figure that out at some point.
Oh, and Jim put a picture of them on the site. So......
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Congrats, Pete! I am glad to see things have really come together nicely. Enjoy your amazing setup!
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Awesome speakers, Pete. Congratulations!! :thumb:
Back in 1986 I saw Elton John at the Universal Amphitheatre. The finish on his Steinway Grand is exactly the same finish you have on those speakers; pure white. Throughout the concert, they changed the color of the piano with lights. It was awesome; bright green, yellow, purple, white, even blue. Can you imagine? Blue!!! :lol:
If I had your speakers, and I wish I did, proper speaker lighting would be one of my listening room goals.
Check out this Elton clip from 1986:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrmHo9DdZgk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrmHo9DdZgk)
Have fun,
Jerry
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http://lifx.co/ (http://lifx.co/)
Here ya go Pete, any color you want for your moods, and yes, blue!
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Very cool guys, thanks.
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Am now using Acoustic Zen Hologram speaker cables, Matrix Reference II IC's, and Acoustic Zen Silver Matrix II XLR cables. Huge positive impact to the sound. These cables produce a deep body and soul. Always wanted to try a complete set of one brand of cables and am glad I did.
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BRM,
If you get the opportunity, try AZ Absolute Copper IC...
Wig :D
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BRM,
If you get the opportunity, try AZ Absolute Copper IC...
Wig :D
Gee thanks, even more money. Eventually I will try the High Fidelity cables (used) but for now I was able to afford two AZ cables for the price of one HF cable.
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Any updates Pete? How's it sounding?
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Any updates Pete? How's it sounding?
Well sometime in January I am tempted to be dastardly and reveal some dirt on some components that are selling for high prices but in fact are a major ripoff. This would probably make a lot of people mad but I am astounded how much we are preyed on by savvy marketing. And photos to back up my discoveries! We'll see.
Anyways, I have been sick and the system down along with me for over a week. Just playing a few tunes right now and it sounds dandy.
Just ordered an audio magic gen zx unit. I have a PEA unit from AM and the dang thing really works! (The small AA battery unit that can be moved around easily)
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Cool. I look forward to your findings (none of which will probably surprise me). :thumb:
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Well sometime in January I am tempted to be dastardly and reveal some dirt on some components that are selling for high prices but in fact are a major ripoff. This would probably make a lot of people mad but I am astounded how much we are preyed on by savvy marketing. And photos to back up my discoveries! We'll see.
Do it!
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There is no shame in exposing charlatans. Like the Lexicon rebadged Oppo...
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Do it!
Writing a genuine review of one's findings and thoughts is hardly dastardly. :icon_lol:
I'd like to read your review.
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In the mean time, I have deployed QRT's, PEA's, and Pulse Gen Zx to wicked effect. Amazing elimination of sibilance and also bass tightening. You've got to try these!
And in my hunt for absolute quiet background I have also ordered a Total Dac USB cable to see if my source of noise is digital. If that doesn't work then I'll be going down the re-generator path.
And to add that final touch to the speakers, Jim has had a conversation with the owner of Seas and now I have solid copper phase plugs to match my speaker finish instead of the wood plugs in the Exotica drivers.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=111643)
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And to add that final touch to the speakers, Jim has had a conversation with the owner of Seas and now I have solid copper phase plugs to match my speaker finish instead of the wood plugs in the Exotica drivers.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=111643)
Amazing how much that changed the look of the driver...for the better, in my opinion.
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Wow! The final touch. Looks great! Does that screw or push on?
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Wow! The final touch. Looks great! Does that screw or push on?
Remove the driver and the screw holding it goes all the way through from the back side of the magnet out into the cone side.
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Did the copper phase plugs change the sound in any way or are they purely for aesthetic purposes?
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Just wanted them to be copper.
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Those are gorgeous looking speakers. Is the front baffle copper foil or what is that?
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Those are gorgeous looking speakers. Is the front baffle copper foil or what is that?
Read the first post of this thread.
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My apologies. And thanks.
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I am a coveting sinner.
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Those are gorgeous looking speakers. Is the front baffle copper foil or what is that?
24 gauge copper in a waterfall-like pattern. Challenging for the team but then they are amazing at what they do.
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I am a coveting sinner.
Sin away! I'm getting farther and farther out there away from mediocrity headed toward nirvana. Slowly, but getting there.
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Sin away! I'm getting farther and farther out there away from mediocrity headed toward nirvana. Slowly, but getting there.
Well, it's a new year. When do you tell the story about your experience with the components that you were having issues with?
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Well, it's a new year. When do you tell the story about your experience with the components that you were having issues with?
If I do it will be in a different thread. Not sure I will though.
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If I do it will be in a different thread. Not sure I will though.
OK, then just PM me.
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They're white, does this mean you had to repaint and get new furniture pieces? :green:
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Is your equipment list on your system page current?
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Okay, installed my new TotalDac USB cable which just arrived via FedEx from France. One of those: what the hell is that, oh wow, ooh didn't know that was there, interesting, is that more separation, not sure, maybe some more hours are needed,.....hopeful.
It is always a shock to your body to hear so much change from a single cable. When I updated to Acoustic Zen cables I heard a nice improvement, but not a shock.
I didn't know a digital cable could make such a change to the bass. Now I have only just plugged it in and have one whole hour on it but immediately I thought the top end was extinguished for the worse. No edgy attack. Way more laid back. Soft even. The bass came alive and instead of breaking up on deep notes they held up with even more power.
The more I listened the more moments of quiet I heard between notes and the more real some things sounded - electric guitars, female vocals, saxophone.
Maybe Vincent is really onto something with his filter network. I need more time because it feels like much of the top end is smoothed out but maybe that is hash. I might need to up the volume one more click to compensate.
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Okay, installed my new TotalDac USB cable which just arrived via FedEx from France. One of those: what the hell is that, oh wow, ooh didn't know that was there, interesting, is that more separation, not sure, maybe some more hours are needed,.....hopeful.
It is always a shock to your body to hear so much change from a single cable. When I updated to Acoustic Zen cables I heard a nice improvement, but not a shock.
I didn't know a digital cable could make such a change to the bass. Now I have only just plugged it in and have one whole hour on it but immediately I thought the top end was extinguished for the worse. No edgy attack. Way more laid back. Soft even. The bass came alive and instead of breaking up on deep notes they held up with even more power.
The more I listened the more moments of quiet I heard between notes and the more real some things sounded - electric guitars, female vocals, saxophone.
Maybe Vincent is really onto something with his filter network. I need more time because it feels like much of the top end is smoothed out but maybe that is hash. I might need to up the volume one more click to compensate.
Wow, if you think it's that good right off the bat, wait about 3 or 4 days and it will show you what it can really do. Great cable!
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Had the same experience with the Dana USB cable. Would love to find a way to A/B them.
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That's great, Red. I had a similar experience recently when I switched from an RCA digital cable to HDMI (I have a PS Audio Perfectwave transport). The bass improved significantly.
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Lack of remote control is wearing on me, but the damn preamp is so awesome. I am considering many options including a Bent or perhaps a dac that acts like a preamp (although many who do this miss the preamp in the chain). But I'll tell you what, it sounds mighty fine. Now if I can swing some High Fidelity cables to try....
Wow Pete, fabulous design and way to go Salk team
Since you are no longer in the vinyl stage look at the new Doshi linestage
The prior full function Aalap totally transformed my system, it has a phono and line stage that many say is second to none or at least not without spending totally stupid money
Nick Doshi is out of Virginia but Larry Marcus at Paragon Sight and Sound in Ann Arbor is his Exclusive rep. Just incredible and the new line stage has a remote. This is a different league. Doshiaudio.com
As far as cables, i have AZ holograms and Satori Shotgun. Now relegated to my ht. Very nice and tonally correct. I tried out a modestly priced cable - Crimson Audio out of Austin texas from buzz I read on Audiogon. I am generally one to never buy cables new, but I am so glad I did. Creston Funk is great and they have incredible prescence. The ICs are great too. They dont look like much and are not garden hoses but dont let that fool you I've tried a lot of stuff but these are staying. Wow
Again congrats of the speakers!
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Yes, Doshi is highly regarded.
I'll check out the Crimson cables.
The E3's are just frickin' amazing speakers. Couldn't be happier.
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great to hear Pete!
you really put so much thought into those speakers and crates.
perhaps you should design crates for Jim to haul things off to shows - with pop out wheels on bottoms
Having SS7s and SS10s, I know having the tops isolated from the woofer drivers in the SS10s make a big difference - Jim's spare no expense approach, like your customization
As tempting as it is to have Jim take one of those exotic wood finishes, that white look with the metal inlay is so classy
with any luck Larry might lend you out a Doshi line stage to try at home over a weekend. A short trip to Ann Arbor - they have some great music stores and ethnic restaurants
I've been meaning to visit Larry's showroom and see Jim again when I'm up visiting the family but I didn't go home last summer
cheers
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Added power conditioning:
Most recently I had the Walker Velocitor - had an interesting effect, was way overpriced for the technology inside, and at the end of the day was a major ripoff to anyone who might have bought one brand new. What I learned was that the QRT technology was very effective and I moved in that direction.
Tried a small Silver Circle Audio power block that was not equipped any more inside than the Felix. It was very damaging to the sound, but did help the noise.
I started experimenting with Audio Magic Gen ZX's and PEA's to great effect. I ended up hard wiring a Gen ZX into each monoblock, placed a small PEA over the circuit breaker (highly recommended), and then eventually put a medium PEA over each monoblock's grates as well.
The Kemp QRT's also work very well and are adjustable. The cheapest QRT technology you can buy.
I still have a Running Springs Duke I used on the amps to great effect. I have not tried it in combination with my latest XXX unit from Audio Magic yet.
One thing for sure is that sibilance is completely gone with AM gear and the noise level is significantly reduced. Not 100% gone but way better than prior setups.
Here are some recent photos:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=117879)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=117880)
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I had the big AM conditioner and a few pulse gen's. I found they really constricted the sound and were overpriced for what they were. Glad they work for you though.
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Added power conditioning:
Most recently I had the Walker Velocitor - had an interesting effect, was way overpriced for the technology inside, and at the end of the day was a major ripoff to anyone who might have bought one brand new. What I learned was that the QRT technology was very effective and I moved in that direction.
Tried a small Silver Circle Audio power block that was not equipped any more inside than the Felix. It was very damaging to the sound, but did help the noise.
I started experimenting with Audio Magic Gen ZX's and PEA's to great effect. I ended up hard wiring a Gen ZX into each monoblock, placed a small PEA over the circuit breaker (highly recommended), and then eventually put a medium PEA over each monoblock's grates as well.
The Kemp QRT's also work very well and are adjustable. The cheapest QRT technology you can buy.
I still have a Running Springs Duke I used on the amps to great effect. I have not tried it in combination with my latest XXX unit from Audio Magic yet.
One thing for sure is that sibilance is completely gone with AM gear and the noise level is significantly reduced. Not 100% gone but way better than prior setups.
Here are some recent photos:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=117879)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=117880)
What's a PEA?
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A P.E.A. is:
http://www.audio-magic.com/Prod-PEA.html
It is similar to QRT (Quantum Resonance Theory) but not exactly the same. PEAs are often referred to as Spintronics, but I am not sure that is accurate from my readings on Spintronics (still trying to wrap my head around this). Aligning electroncs so they are all going in the same direction and therefore do not make "noise" by being chaotic is what I believe a PEA is supposed to do. Something like that. Whatever it is, it seems to clean up the sound and in my application does not impede any flow of music. Quite the opposite, it seems to "free up" the sound and provide more detail.
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A P.E.A. is:
http://www.audio-magic.com/Prod-PEA.html
It is similar to QRT (Quantum Resonance Theory) but not exactly the same. PEAs are often referred to as Spintronics, but I am not sure that is accurate from my readings on Spintronics (still trying to wrap my head around this). Aligning electroncs so they are all going in the same direction and therefore do not make "noise" by being chaotic is what I believe a PEA is supposed to do. Something like that. Whatever it is, it seems to clean up the sound and in my application does not impede any flow of music. Quite the opposite, it seems to "free up" the sound and provide more detail.
Well thanks for the explanation and the link. I had not heard of this before. If you place a PEA over a breaker and it aligns your electrons at that location, how does it prevent those same electrons from becoming un-aligned by the time they reach your components?
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Well thanks for the explanation and the link. I had not heard of this before. If you place a PEA over a breaker and it aligns your electrons at that location, how does it prevent those same electrons from becoming un-aligned by the time they reach your components?
No idea, perhaps it is Audio 'Magic'? ha
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Scientists have been working on electron alignment for a long time. It could replace binary language for computing. Basically that would redefine the world. But they have not been able to alighn the electron's spin outside of a ferrite core with anything small enough to work. And once out of the core, alignment is lost. I don't buy PEA tech. I am glad it works for you, but to me, it is doing something else, not aligning the spin of the electrons.
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Gotta find something to spend cash on right? Gotta feed the monkey.
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Scientists have been working on electron alignment for a long time. It could replace binary language for computing. Basically that would redefine the world. But they have not been able to alighn the electron's spin outside of a ferrite core with anything small enough to work. And once out of the core, alignment is lost. I don't buy PEA tech. I am glad it works for you, but to me, it is doing something else, not aligning the spin of the electrons.
Link to article?
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Gotta find something to spend cash on right? Gotta feed the monkey.
I tried the smallest, cheapest used one I could find and liked the result. So I then found a pair of bigger used units and really like the results. I'm pretty happy right now if they are spinning or not in the same direction. It is not a subtle change that is hard to distinguish. I'm not a subtle person and need substance for me to keep someting in the system. Plus I am very good at finding deals so I rarely pay "new" prices. That way I can resell and break even in the tweak category if the "science" does not pan out. Monkey fed.
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I can certainly relate to Pete's approach to evaluating equipment in his system.
My modus operandus as well. Finding manufacters who sell direct and being patient and finding deals on used equipment. It can seem like a merry go round at times but the effort is well worth it
Enjoy music, tolerate equipment
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I am not saying it doesn't work. I just doubt it works the way they claim. This is quantum physics/magno chemistry:
http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2014/141020/ncomms6304/abs/ncomms6304.html Outside of a field, spin is gone in less than 1 second (its less than 70 microseconds at 68 degrees).
Here is a video of a lecture discussing much of the current work in the area. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cID4fKraWkE Start at 11 if you want to hear about spin in copper within a magnetic field.
Shawn
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Pete,
I got a Stealth Power Purifier (http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/bybee/1.html) from Garner. I took a demo home from RMAF a couple of years ago and kept it. It replaced a re-generator. I don't care what you call it but the Bybee thingamajig works for me. Even works on my tube amps without any power sag. FYI, I used to have RSA Haley and PurePower APS2000 for many years and I now have the SPP. It cleans things up in the mid/treble without making them bright -- Just cleaner detail that is musical and non fatiguing.
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[quote author=sfox7076 link=topic=129981.msg1417316#msg1417316 date=1427895548
Here is a video of a lecture discussing much of the current work in the area. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cID4fKraWkE Start at 11 if you want to hear about spin in copper within a magnetic field.
[/quote]
Shawn, I'd have to turn my brain up to 11 just to understand 25% of that, but interesting and thanks for sending.
Cheers,
KP
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My sister in law is a pretty famous person in nano tech, so I picked up some of it through osmosis. Add it to my physics love (other than calculus) , and I find all of this fascinating, so I listen to it.
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An update:
The system is absolutely amazing these days. I still use my Chord Qute EX dac and am targeting a Bricasti some day. But for now the Chord has been stellar and I no longer have any issues interfacing with my HAL MS-2 player.
The creme-De-Le-creme piece for me has been the latest Audio Magic Stealth XXX unit in the smoked plexiglass case. I had my clear unit upgraded by Jerry and it is stellar.
Of course I did mention previously of going to good power cables and then the Silversmith cabling - both of which stunned me and shot me way up in performance.
Now I have started implementing the Nordost Sort Kones. Damn demo last year at Axpona left me shocked and I sat right in the front row again this year and was stunned a second time. I went right downstairs and bought 9 of them. First set went right under the XXX. And yep, sounds outrageous, but they really have a cleansing effect. I still use a Running Springs Duke for the amps, now running through the XXX. It tightens up the bass a skosh.
Anyways, the holographic nature of my system these days is just fantastic. I am now a hi rez download fiend because I cannot get enough. But I have to say that redbook is absolutely stellar as well and I enjoy it equally. Go get yourself some Exoticas!
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Chad Stelly at Acoustic Sounds has always used the little Qute DAC's, and he made a believer out of me with the EX... He recently upgraded to the 2 Qute, and said it is an astonishing improvement. Something to think about. Chad really gets it, and I trust his ears for sure.
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....my HAL MS-2 player.
A little off topic but what power supply are you using for the SSD in the HAL? I just switched to powering the SSD in my server with a 5 volt battery and the improvement in SQ is not subtle.
Wayne
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A little off topic but what power supply are you using for the SSD in the HAL? I just switched to powering the SSD in my server with a 5 volt battery and the improvement in SQ is not subtle.
Wayne
How do you do that?
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How do you do that?
Buy an Ankler Astro battery charger and make a cable to power your SSD.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Anker-2nd-Gen-Astro-E4-13000mAh-PowerIQ-External-Battery-for-iPhones-and-iPads-/251982268705?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3aab504921
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Here you go Pete, a new thread:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=135111.msg1435196#new (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=135111.msg1435196#new)
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Very cool. I PM'd Rich to ask if there is access to the cabling for me to try this.