Bryston B135 SST/2

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spinner

Re: Bryston B135 SST/2
« Reply #40 on: 1 Apr 2012, 03:26 am »
Very misleading . The specs say the player is a 192/24 dac. Why have that if it doesn't need it. The BDA uses the same chip and upsamples from 44 to beyond 192. Do I need the BDA to fully realize the potential of the player?

Diamond Dog

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Re: Bryston B135 SST/2
« Reply #41 on: 1 Apr 2012, 03:45 am »
Very misleading .

That seems a little strong, Spinner...I don't think that Bryston has ever said that the BCD-1 did anything other than adhere religiously to the Redbook standard ( perhaps sometimes to a fault ) and that means 16/44.

D.D.

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Re: Bryston B135 SST/2
« Reply #42 on: 1 Apr 2012, 06:21 am »
Hi folks

The CD player has always operated at 44/16 and it was important that it did. The DAC may be capable of 192/24 but we always adhered to the Redbook standard - that's one of the reasons it sounded so good.

James

James Tanner

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Re: Bryston B135 SST/2
« Reply #43 on: 1 Apr 2012, 06:34 am »
Bryston CD Player:

The advantage of an all in one box solution for a CD Player (as opposed to a separate outboard DAC and Drive) is the elimination of jitter. For optimum performance the Drive and DAC must use the same MASTER CLOCK. If the clock signal of the drive is not synchronized with the clock signal from the DAC then jitter develops. In external DACs the digital input must be re-clocked in order to reduce the jitter. Jitter is defined as mistiming of the digital signal. The timing of all those ones and zeros is of extreme importance. It isn’t enough to get the bits right; those bits have to be converted back into music with the same timing reference as when the music was first digitized. These timing errors (jitter) are the bane of quality audio. With the Bryston CD player the master clock and the drive are synchronized perfectly to eliminate any possibility of jitter affecting the sound quality of the player.

BRYSTON DAC

The DAC integrated circuit (chip) provides the conversion of the digital signal to the analog domain. The chip used in the BCD-1 CD Player is a Crystal CS4398. The CS4398 is a hybrid multi-bit delta-sigma DAC. This is a rather tongue-twisting description that refers to an advanced generation chip using a combination of several different methods to optimize the conversion process. This DAC uses a process to over-sample the digital input 128 times. Over-sampling is when the samples are re-read (2x, 4x, 8x, etc.) to create a new sampling frequency. The new samples are then run through an interpolation filter to create a more analog-like waveform. The output of this process is a very sensitive analog signal and it is critical that the timing of this process is very closely controlled by a low jitter clock.

DAC chips also require a very clean digital power supply if they are to function at their optimum. Noise on the digital supply may cause added jitter, noise, and distortion. Incorrect circuit trace routing of the digital power supply or ground may introduce digital noise into the analog circuits. This digital power supply is provided from a separate closely regulated and filtered source. The DAC also requires a high quality analog power source because the analog signal is at its lowest magnitude when it enters and leaves the DAC. As a result, any added noise or distortion will be greatly amplified by later stages. Again a separate, heavily regulated and filtered power supply with carefully routed grounds is provided. Finally, if a digital trace, signal or power, is routed in a layer above or below an analog trace it can induce noise via capacitive coupling. Careful trace routing eliminates these problems and provides the extra dB’s of noise and distortion reduction which separates good from outstanding equipment. This attention to detail with the power supplies is one of the reasons for the superior sound of the BCD-1 Bryston CD Player.
« Last Edit: 1 Apr 2012, 12:16 pm by James Tanner »

niels

Re: Bryston B135 SST/2
« Reply #44 on: 1 Apr 2012, 01:14 pm »
Hmm, seems almost identical to B100, my B100 has 125 watt on the spec sheet.
Seems to recall some questions regarding plans for the B100 to come in a squared version and we were told it already was "squared" since it was an integrated amplifier.

James Tanner

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Re: Bryston B135 SST/2
« Reply #45 on: 1 Apr 2012, 01:32 pm »
Hmm, seems almost identical to B100, my B100 has 125 watt on the spec sheet.
Seems to recall some questions regarding plans for the B100 to come in a squared version and we were told it already was "squared" since it was an integrated amplifier.

Hi,

The B135 is quite different from the B100 in that we have gone to a different circuit based on the SP-3 preamp sections.  The power amp side is close to SST2 but we have gone to a surface mount technology which seems more reliable and more predictable from unit to unit.  We have also increased the power supply capability.

james

spinner

Re: Bryston B135 SST/2
« Reply #46 on: 1 Apr 2012, 03:10 pm »
Strong or not Diamond Dog the spec sheet is misleading if a consumer is not well versed in digital tech speak.                                                                                                   James , thank you very much for that comprehensive explanation . The terms upsample and oversample have always been a bit misunderstood anyway. For me and possibly others like me, I appreciate the time you took to give us this insight.  Take care.... :thumb: 8)  .                                                                       

rmurray

Re: Bryston B135 SST/2
« Reply #47 on: 1 Apr 2012, 03:13 pm »
 Yes, James . I was always a bit miffted by that as well.   :)

SoundGame

Re: Bryston B135 SST/2
« Reply #48 on: 1 Apr 2012, 10:13 pm »
Hi,

The B135 is quite different from the B100 in that we have gone to a different circuit based on the SP-3 preamp sections.  The power amp side is close to SST2 but we have gone to a surface mount technology which seems more reliable and more predictable from unit to unit.  We have also increased the power supply capability.

james

Hi James,

1.Can we expect to see the SP3 technology that has now been trickled down to the B135, appear anytime soon in other Bryston preamplifiers, such as the BP26, BP6 and BP16.  I would think the BP16 would be a very easy switch, since it has always been the B100 without the amplifier section - will this change constitute a BP17?

2.I would expect the B135 preamp section may still not match the SP3 in 2ch performance - working as a preamp but please confirm if it does.

3. When you mention surface mount technology for the amp section in the B135, could you explain what this means in a little more detail?  Is it someting that is reserved for an integrated design or is this someting that can offer more reliability and predictability to the entire amplifer line e.g. SST3?  Will you be applying any new discoveries in amplifier architecture to the SST2 amplifiers?  If so, when can we expect to see such changes implemented on the line?  Thanks.

SoundGame

Re: Bryston B135 SST/2
« Reply #49 on: 1 Apr 2012, 10:23 pm »
Oh James, secondly, you made the following comments regarding the SP3 presentation vs. the BP26 - would this hold true for a comparision between the B100 and B135 i.e. the B135 will sound more laid back, recessed vs. the B100?

Quote from: SoundGame on  1 Mar 2012, 01:05 PM

So James, the big question is which do YOU prefer to use for dedicated 2-channel listening and WHY?

James:
Tough one because they have slightly different presentations. So I do not think it comes down to better - more one of difference.

The BP preamps are a touch more forward and have a bit more 'prescence' to them. The SP3 sounds a little more distant and laid back. I think if you feel your system is a touch reticent you would prefer the BP Series of preamps and if you felt your system was too forward or in your face you would probably like the SP-3.


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Re: Bryston B135 SST/2
« Reply #50 on: 3 Apr 2012, 09:20 am »
James, this is a great looking Amp.  I really like the styling of the new Bryston products.

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Re: Bryston B135 SST/2
« Reply #51 on: 3 Apr 2012, 06:36 pm »
James, this is a great looking Amp.  I really like the styling of the new Bryston products.

Thanks Ron - yes I showed it last week at the Montreal audio show and it got high praise and the backorders are piling up - so we are very pleased with the response.

james

SoundGame

Re: Bryston B135 SST/2
« Reply #52 on: 3 Apr 2012, 07:54 pm »
Thanks Ron - yes I showed it last week at the Montreal audio show and it got high praise and the backorders are piling up - so we are very pleased with the response.

james

Hi James - any personal perspectives on the sound of the B135 vs. B100 vs. say a BP6 + 2B/SST2.  Of the three, would the B135 be the leading choice now in terms of transparency and low distortion?  How is the presentation different between the B135 and B100 and is it actually overall higher performing?  I referenced your comments on the SP3's sound vs. the BP26 in this thread.  Thanks!

Stu Pitt

Re: Bryston B135 SST/2
« Reply #53 on: 3 Apr 2012, 08:49 pm »
 Curiosity question...

The B135 does 135w into 8 ohms, and 180 into 4 ohms?   Your amps usually get pretty close to doubling into 4 ohms.  Any reason why this one doesn't, or is the spec sheet a misprint?  I know you guys are pretty conservative with power ratings. 

SoundGame

Re: Bryston B135 SST/2
« Reply #54 on: 3 Apr 2012, 08:52 pm »
Curiosity question...

The B135 does 135w into 8 ohms, and 180 into 4 ohms?   Your amps usually get pretty close to doubling into 4 ohms.  Any reason why this one doesn't, or is the spec sheet a misprint?  I know you guys are pretty conservative with power ratings.

I believe what James stated previously on the new for 2012 thread is that the output on the B100 could be increased rather easily, without major changes.  Other than adding the third power supply for the digital side and enhancing the preamp section with SP3 learnings, I would guess they just tuned up the B100 amplifier section, without changing much else.  Let's look to James for further enlightenment.

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Re: Bryston B135 SST/2
« Reply #55 on: 3 Apr 2012, 08:53 pm »
Curiosity question...

The B135 does 135w into 8 ohms, and 180 into 4 ohms?   Your amps usually get pretty close to doubling into 4 ohms.  Any reason why this one doesn't, or is the spec sheet a misprint?  I know you guys are pretty conservative with power ratings.

Hi,

No mistake - we are just being very conservative at 4 ohms because at 4 ohms I think you are better off with a 3B.

james

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Re: Bryston B135 SST/2
« Reply #56 on: 3 Apr 2012, 08:54 pm »
I believe what James stated previously on the new for 2012 thread is that the output on the B100 could be increased rather easily, without major changes.  Other than adding the third power supply for the digital side and enhancing the preamp section with SP3 learnings, I would guess they just tuned up the B100 amplifier section, without changing much else.  Let's look to James for further enlightenment.

No the amp section is a new design based on the surface mount technology we are now using.


james

SoundGame

Re: Bryston B135 SST/2
« Reply #57 on: 3 Apr 2012, 09:14 pm »
Hi James - any personal perspectives on the sound of the B135 vs. B100 vs. say a BP6 + 2B/SST2.  Of the three, would the B135 be the leading choice now in terms of transparency and low distortion?  How is the presentation different between the B135 and B100 and is it actually overall higher performing?  I referenced your comments on the SP3's sound vs. the BP26 in this thread.  Thanks!

Anything you can share on this James? As, well, is the B135, the first of a new generation of amplifiers - is it really even a SST?

alexone

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Re: Bryston B135 SST/2
« Reply #58 on: 3 Apr 2012, 09:25 pm »
James,

what is the philosophy behind the fact that all Bryston integrated amps with the built in DAC 'only' can handle up to 96/24 digital signals? is it that the redesign of the DAC would be too expensive or is it that Bryston feels that anything higher than 96/24 should be done by their BDA-1??


thanks,

al.

spinner

Re: Bryston B135 SST/2
« Reply #59 on: 3 Apr 2012, 09:45 pm »
  What is surface mount tech mean????? :scratch: