AudioCircle
Community => Non-audio hobbies and interests => Cars and Bikes => Topic started by: Don_S on 28 Jan 2018, 06:20 pm
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What are your thoughts on replacing ATF? My 2.4L 4-cyl 2006 Highlander only has 52,000 miles on it. I took it to a new shop to get an oil change and you would not believe all the things they wanted to do to it including replacing the power steering fluid (done 10K miles ago) and the ATF. They wanted to replace the PCV valve just because. No sign of problems. De-sludge the engine before the oil change without even looking at the oil first. Add a Teflon compound to the oil. Add something expensive to my gas tank. I had already replaced my engine and cabin air filters so I told them to skip checking those.
I looked at my car's service manual and they never mention replacing the ATF under normal driving conditions. They do have an interval for replacing the fluid if the vehicle is used for towing. Mine has never been used for towing. The fluid was a little discolored but thought that might be normal.
I have never replaced the ATF in any car I have owned and never had a transmission problem. My maintenance schedule is replace the oil and filter, replace air filters. I did change the power steering fluid and coolant at the factory recommended intervals.
So verdict--replace ATF or not? Any performance improvement expected? It is not just the cost involved but the annoyance of finding an honest garage to do the work.
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Time to find another new shop :(
Sounds like they are just looking for more $$$.
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Time to find another new shop :(
Sounds like they are just looking for more $$$.
I already figured that out. I recently moved so I have to establish new shopping locations and service providers. This shop is going to get a nasty Yelp and no repeat visits from me.
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70-90k miles is a better time IMO. Shops like to say 50-60k often. But it depends on the vehicle, too. Trucks? Do it earlier that 90k.
Changing transmission fluid cannot be felt, but will keep the transmission in action a lot longer. Automatic transmissions are like decaying parts from day 1, however once the fluid in them gets really dirty they start to decay very fast. Where as up until that point it's a pretty slow process.
Even old automatic Chevy transmissions easily out lived motors so long as they got some fluid changes.
The thing about changing the fluid is its best to have a shop do it, they use vacuum to get most of it out. Unfortunately it takes all day, just about, because the car has to cool down to room temp.
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change that oil ! how much does it cost to do the trans oil and filter for that car ? $100 ? for every 4-5 years ? money well spent.. that discoloration is a sign of it getting dirty and it breaking down..
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$150-200 is more like it.
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Most quick lube places do trans fluid and filter replacement. I assume they only replace the fluid lost when removing the pan? That will leave old fluid in the cooler and torque converter. I know they have machines that flush radiator coolant and replace almost all the old coolant. Perhaps they have that for the transmission as well?
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I'm going to point out I said "vacuum" machine.
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........ and depending how long you keep the vehicle / miles, brake and power steering fluid 60-100,000 miles depending on who you talk to. I suspect some will say as early as 50k
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Anyone know what % of the fluid remains if a "quick" change and filter change are done?
I do plan to keep the vehicle another 4-5 years. But I drive less than 5K miles a year. Much less now than during the early years of the vehicle. I hate to spend money on a new car that does not get driven and they stopped making the only car that caught my eye or interested me, the Toyota Venza.
Or putting it another way, I will wear out before the transmission does. :lol:
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If Toyota doesn't advise you to change the transmission fluid, then don't bother listening to any of us. Besides, you only have 52K miles on a 2006 vehicle and you drive only 5K per year??? Yeah, you'll get 30 more years out of that car.
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If Toyota doesn't advise you to change the transmission fluid, then don't bother listening to any of us. Besides, you only have 52K miles on a 2006 vehicle and you drive only 5K per year??? Yeah, you'll get 30 more years out of that car.
Like I said, I will wear out first.
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I'm going to take a dissenting view here. If the factory doesn't recommend changes what would be accomplished by changing it? Auto trans is essentially a hydraulic pump. Unless something is going wrong that would cause it to overheat, hydraulic fluid really has an extremely long life. There is no combustion to contaminate it and what little metal gets into it is filtered out by, you guessed it, the filter.
It's common to reccomend all sorts of unnecessary service at many places. It's their stock in trade, and easy money compared to troubleshooting and repairing actual problems. They don't have the stellar technicians doing it, either, so it's a gravy train sometimes. Sucks but true. They often prey on people's fear of a broken car and stories of huge expenditures to repair.
Manufacturers have nothing to gain by not reccomending service at intervals necessary for longevity of vehicle. If you're not doing your own service I'd advise you that the reccomendations in owner's manual will be adequate if not overkill.
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The one totally forgotten fluid change is the brake fluid.
It should be replaced every three/four years.
The brake fluid gains water(it sucks up water from the air) and that water will corrode the brake parts. Particularly damaging expensive antilock brake parts.
A brake fluid change costs about $125.
(but is easy to do free except for the cost of the fluid)
No complex stuff needed. a vacuum pump or gravity with a bit of pumping the brake pedal, can do it all.
Just have to watch the brake fluid reservoir does not suck air..
For some reason almost no car manuals discuss brake fluid. Nor do shops.
I guess the shops would rather replace the corroded brake parts?
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Transmission fluid wears out due to oxidation and the accumulation of contaminants. Automatic transmissions now days subject the transmission fluid to higher working temperatures than 20 or 30 years ago. In fact, they are designed around the thermal capabilities of the synthetic transmission fluids. I would replace the fluid occasionally and regularly replace the transmission fluid filter, if it gets full of enough crap your transmission doesn't shift anymore.
On Toyota's recommendation to never change the tranny fluid, I suspect that they would benefit from the car wearing out sooner than later.
If I replaced the tranny fluid I would the manufacturers recommended fluid or the Redline Oil equivalent if the the car was outside it's drive train warranty.
Scotty
See link to Redline Oil below.
https://www.redlineoil.com/automatic-transmission-fluids
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On the subject of brake fluid, guess what, they make a brake fluid that does not pull moisture out of the air and corrode brake components but it is usually used in race cars,DOT 5. Street cars generally get the fluid that causes problems, DOT3,DOT4,DOT5.1. :duh:
Scotty
More about DOT5 brake fluid vs DOT3,4.
http://www.buckeyetriumphs.org/technical/Brakes/Fluid/Fluid.htm
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Folks should NOT use Dot Five with antilock brakes.
Google "Dot 5 and antilock brakes"..
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This is a case where the technology applied to brake fluid development has basically stopped at a point deemed good enough and cheap to produce compared developing something better. We get to bear the cost in the form of increased maintenance cycles and very large expenses when you don't remember to flush the damn system every 2 years. :cry:
Scotty
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Here is a link to the technical reasons why we can't use DOT5 with ABS and glycol based brake fluids.
https://goo.gl/CwvN1Q
Scotty
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I should mention that...
If your transmission is acting up, and is over 70-90k miles area, you are too late.
They are not like brakes, where when you feel and hear them they can be fixed. You have to stay ahead of the game with them.
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The tranny in my '97 Camry went out at 133k miles, so I paid the dealer to flush the radiator and change transmission fluid at 120k of my '12 Camry ($120 each).
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All oil is sacrificial wear component. Lifetime ATF is a sucker play. They know every tranny will outlast the warranty, and most new cars require dealer tools to mate the new tranny computer with the main ECU. It's a golden goose. There are no TV ads selling ATF, so the people are ignorant. Nobody wants you to change your ATF, except you. All AT use ATF as the primary coolant. ATs get very hot so ATF is pumped up to the radiator for water cooling. Heat speeds the deterioration of the oil, just like in an engine.
The mfgs that do (or have) recommended changing ATF advise interval of 30k - 50k miles. I think 50k is too long based on my experience with Honda ATF. I also like to use intervals that are easy to remember when it's due. So I chose 33k as the oil interval for all gears. 33, 66, 00.
Changing the "lifetime ATF" in my 2008 BMW 328 at 130k made a huge improvement in driveability. It felt like adding 50HP. The old oil was burnt and black. I change it at 33k now. It has a GM Made 6 speed, so I use synthetic Havoline meets the BMW spec, cheapo from Amazon.
I followed Honda advice to change ATF every 30k in my 2000 Odyssey 4sp, but the dealer only did 1x drain/fill, instead of Honda recommended 3x drain/fill/drive. Doing one drain/fill only changes half of the oil and the Honda oil at that time was non-synthetic Honda Z1 ATF which was not good enough for their new trans with the new VTEC V6 and the new 'world's biggest' minivan. The dealer never recommended I change the ATF, I had to ask for it based on reading my own Bentley repair manual. I assume other owners of same tranny never changed the ATF, and we know what happened to them. At 90k after 3 ATF (half) changes mine started shifting funny, so I started doing my own flush with aftermarket synthetic ATF, catching the old oil from the cooler return line, and the deterioration stopped. It still runs fine at 250k, with the original transmission. Valvoline Synthetic ATF, good stuff!
BTW if you haven't yet tried the new Pennzoil Platinum (Shell - Dutch Oil) motor oil made from natural gas, you should try it. Using natural gas stock instead of crude oil stock allows the final oil to be much more pure, with less contaminants, more concentrated with lubricant molecules. This is what BMW uses now. I used to notice a bump in smoothness and power when I changed my motor oil at 5k, with Mobil1, or Castrol Edge. Now with Pennzoil Platinum I don't notice any bump in power after oil change and the car feels stronger all the time. My valves don't tick anymore, I used to have to run it at 4k rpm for a few minutes to blow out the small oil galleries to stop the ticking, but now it's not necessary. The oil is not burning and gumming up the small oil channels. It runs much smoother on very cold startups too. I still change oil every 5k, but I feel like it's much better protected with this new Penzoil stuff. ymmv literally :lol: