AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Salk Signature Sound => Topic started by: Big Red Machine on 25 Sep 2013, 07:08 pm
-
Coming soon:
new room in new digs, :(
renovation of a rental space, :dunno:
acoustic treatments, :o
power conditioning, :thumb:
new DAC, new server, new cables :bounce:
tbd
-
new pics
new fun
new sales of old stuff
:thumb:
-
Awesome - can't wait!
You kept "The Dude" though, right?
-
The Dude would have to be pried from my cold, dead hands.
-
Subscribed........
-
The Dude would have to be pried from my cold, dead hands.
Oh thank God! I'm still jealous of you every day for having that preamp. :D Now that is a real piece of audio equipment! :thumb:
-
Oh thank God! I'm still jealous of you every day for having that preamp. :D Now that is a real piece of audio equipment! :thumb:
So buy one.
-
A new house? Still in Metro area?
Look forward to hearing and seeing the tranformation :thumb:
-
So buy one.
I have more important things to spend 5-6K on than a preamp at this time in my life. ;) Perhaps one day.
-
The first thing I did (totally disallowed BTW since this is a rental) was put in a dedicated 20 amp line and breaker. I did this out into the garage for tools/compressor and another for the HT/Stereo gear.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=88041)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=88042)
I planned ahead for the space I was remodeling and put in a dual receptacle. I procured a variety of duplexes while looking for new work and decided to try a stock Hubbel 5362 and an Oyaide R1. I don't really like that Oyaide. It grips very tightly but seems to be touchy and not really built for domestic abuse. I will replace it soon.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=88043)
-
Unfortunately I do not have a before photo to show of the monstrosity that was torn out by my father-in-law. It was a cedar lined cabinet about knee high with 3 doors on the top surface that opened upwards. You couldn't sit there as the door handles crammed up your ....
So I decided that this was the best space in the house and in a nice walk-out basement set-up so if I was going to use this spot then it had to accommodate both 2 channel and home theater. So out goes the use of my nice Adona racks and 3 inch maple shelves. Out goes the ability to use cable lifts and other tweaks.
Since this is the only space to have electronics in this "small to me" house I decided to put the HT gear on the left side and the 2 channel on the right side. They would each be using the dedicated 20 amp circuit.
As I progressed I was constrained with the existing depth which was 24 inches but I worked the unit up higher to handle all the essentials. Thing is that the heavy amps make sense on the bottom shelf but then I could not reach in behind them to turn them on so opted for the top shelf and made the top surface 3 removable pieces. Each piece sits on felt pads so they won't vibrate. I made the shelves 19 inches deep and left myself 5 inches of open space behind to run the cables side to side. This made life much easier to string the cables. I just painted the back of the space black and you hardly notice any wires inside.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=88095)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=88096)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=88097)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=88098)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=88099)
-
I didn't get fancy with this. I basically dado'd some 2x4's and used 1/2 plywood. I made 3 sections and filled the spot. I covered the insides of each shelf space with a black painted piece of 1/8 fiberboard. Trimmed the front with some nice primed pine stock. When I nail the trim to the front of each shelf with the nailer I make sure the trim takes out any shelf bow when I glue and nail it up.
Crude and cheap.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=88100)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=88101)
Helper...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=88102)
Space behind for wiring:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=88103)
The floor is really unlevel here. Took a lot of shimming and I still missed one area I'll hold secret.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=88104)
Additional 20 amp line box for the HT gear. Overkill with two duplexes as I use a power manager device and only need one plug. Just a Home Depot 20 amp receptacle at $7.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=88105)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=88106)
I left the large opening in the bottom center in case someday I can swing an SS8 center. I opted not to use a perforated screen due to moire and other issues so a floor mounted is fine as that is what I used for years anyways.
-
Wow Pete
Glad to see your system coming together
Have you considered a vented black top to the cabinets?
Those Samsons are going to be fun to turn on and off
-
The Samsons don't give enough heat to even worry about. I have 2 or more inches all around them plus the 5 inches behind them. On the top shelf I just pull back one of the 3 removable top pieces, reach over, and snap them on or off.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=88109)
A view from my chair. I set my Ikea chair out in front of the theater seats for listening.
-
BRM,
It is nice to see your system is up and running. How do your system perform in this new space.
-
Lookin' good Pete and glad to see you back!
-
Looks good Pete! Glad to see you have your gear back up and running again.
-
BRM,
It is nice to see your system is up and running. How do your system perform in this new space.
Pretty good. I am happy but not satisfied just yet. I set up room treatments with no pre and post measurements but just from experience and a desire to utilize my diffusers. I have an extensive quantity of OC703 and homemade absorbers using 703. I am dismantling my Prime 53 diffusors because there is no room for them.
When I have extensive amounts of 703, I mean on the order of 3 full boxes of 24 inch bass trap triangles and about a dozen 2x4 x 2 inch absorber panels plus 4 8 inch thick 1x4 foot bass traps. And I had some round tube diffusors I have no room for. Kinda sucks.
The room is deceiving as it has 9 foot ceilings and the drop ceiling is at 8 feet. 12.5 feet wide but 32 feet deep. The furnace is behind me and I used 703 panels to insulate the walls and flanking noise above to reduce that noise off my right rear. I insulated the inside of the door and hung a panel on the outside to try and help reduce furnace noise.
I did appreciate that my diffusers mounted nicely in the ceiling tile grid.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=88135)
-
Wow!!! Look at those cloud in your ceiling....very interestin.
-
Let's skip over acoustics for now and talk power conditioning. Wanna see something sick?
Alan Mayer products - PE's and the little small jobbies, forgot their names. Just a few.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=88279)
I had plans for this box. It was going to have solid copper bus and TeslaPlex and other top end outlets in it. Empty now but TBD.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=88280)
A passive junction box I used in my old digs. Has 2 Maestros, 10 lbs of lead in the bottom and about 3 gauge copper wiring.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=88281)
An AVA Humdinger - nicely built unit.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=88282)
-
Not even close to being done.
Here is the Emotiva unit. Single duplex, nice and beefy unit.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=88283)
How about an isolation tranny? 1.5kva EAC unit - heavy!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=88284)
How about taking the bus? UberBuss and BussStop units from Mr. Dave.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=88285)
And finally, how about an older Furman unit - Ref 7i or something like that. Also very heavy!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=88286)
-
Never was a Boy Scout, but I like to be prepared. I'll have to tell the story about me having a real nasty RFI problem and how I "solved" it.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=88287)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=88288)
-
Lookin' gooood Pete! What brand of DAC and media server are you considering?
-
Lookin' gooood Pete! What brand of DAC and media server are you considering?
Have a Lampizator L4/G4 dac and a Rich Hollis MS2 server.
Want to try a BMC dsd dac as well.
-
So I had this ridiculous noise problem (in hindsight it is now ridiculous, but during it was incredibly annoying). We've all had them and when we get rid of them they are always gratifying moments. And dumb-ass moments for not knowing to try that first! We tried just about everything we could think of in the component area and it turned out to be something silly. I reached out to Dave Elledge to coach me through running down the culprit and you can see by the string of exchanges we had that we tried some pretty silly things in the process of trying to eliminate components or typical fault areas. I had a HUMMMM that was less than a faulty cable HUMMMM and way more than the typical hssss we live with when the system is idling. When you can hear the HUMMM from your listening chair you have to try and eliminate it.
The result is it is resolved but look at the path we weaved over 2 weeks+ to get there:
Me:
Trying to resolve a noise problem with the system in new digs. I ran a 20 amp line and have the stop/uber powering the amps. I have a Furman IT-REFERENCE 7i into the same outlet with the preamp, dac, and a Emotiva DC blocker taking the HAL MS2 and hard drive.
I also have a 1.5kv EAC tranny available.
A little more hum through the speakers than I care for since I can hear it while seated. I am guessing I shouild try everything through the Uber next and skip the Furman. And then maybe try the Furman through the Uber?
I am guessing either the dac or the MS2 is the culprit. Is that good logic to try or?
Dave:
Yep, something in the lineup has a funky ground. I would try plugging the Furman into the Uber since balanced power units work off of a virtual ground... If that doesn't work, hit me with an email
Hang in there, Brother.
<><
A few days later:
Slow going on the noise problem. I tried everything through the Uber w/o any Furman device and still the same. Tried changing the input selector on the pre and it is constant for all settings. Tried turning off the dac and still there. Tried a cheater plug on one monoblock and still there. So my guess is the preamp. When I get time I will try checking the tubes and the interconnects. If no luck there I might pull the power cables up and away from everything to see if they are picking up noise. Unfortunately I have flouescent lights but even with them off therre is the same level of noise.
BTW, the noise is present only with the volume turned up and not when the volume is fully down. This says preamp to me. And I know that my preamp has no chassis ground.
I wonder if moving the breaker one notch down and picking up the other leg would work?
Dave:
Yep, it's the pre. Can you invert the plug from the pre into the receptacle? Silly I know, but it works on guitar amps.
Could be a heater in one of the tubes, too.
Both channels, Pete?
<><
Dave
More days passed:
Dave, I tried flipping the AC plug polarity, flipped the hard drive off, tried attaching a ground wire between the outer of an RCA jack on the pre to ground, and then put the pre on the Furman all by itself. I would say only a minute reduction in hum with the Furman. I should have measured it with the meter before and after.
I'll pop the top tomorrow and reseat the tubes and poke things around in there to see if that helps. If that doesn't work I'll pull the power cables up and out from behind the wire mess and see if they are causing the hum.
Pete
Dave’s response as we try to narrow down the culprit:
Yeah, Pete. I HATE hums. Try cleaning the tube pins and sockets with isopropyl alcohol or DeOxit. Sheesh... Did I say I hate hums?
Do you have any attachment to cable or satellite? Sometimes those things are the culprit. None of the installation techs care about anything than meeting code when it comes to grounds.
<><
Dave
Sent from my iPad
Then I had an AHA moment and finally stumbled upon the problem. When you are having no luck on your path it most likely is something totally unrelated and in left field. Here’s Dave’s final response to me finding the problem:
Like Gilda Radner said: "It's always something!" Sometimes it is that easily overlooked small thing like an unterminated cable.
Cool that everything is clean and tidy now. Good job, my friend!
<>
Dave
Sent from my iPad
On Oct 5, 2013, at 7:54 AM, "Pete wrote:
Found the problem! Pretty stupid but an easy fix. I had a "spare" ethernet cable running from the powered hub that was not connected to anything. I found this by unplugging the hub and the noise went away. Tried (it in) another circuit and it was still there. hmmmm So I noticed my spare red cat 5 laying next to my server and thought that could be it and when I unplugged it from the hub, whalla, fixed. Now I can stick with just the stop and the uber.
Of course I cleaned the pre tubes and tried reversing polarity on the amps as well. I was tipped off when I had the pre off and the amp on and the noise was still there. Kinda made the pre innocent at that point.
Awesome!
Pete
Dang Cat 5 was a transmitting antenna all the while and I was too lazy to notice it and just unplug it. Lesson learned is that if your system is capable of being quiet and all of a sudden it is not then you have probably introduced something new that is causing the problem. Hope this helps you someday if you have a noise problem.
-
I went through the same thing last night , found out if I turn on my lamp the noise went away :o
Most of the time its the cable feed , I fix that with a Jensen Cable TV RF Isolator
-
So I am progressing s l o w l y with the system. Have put in some new cables which are promising.
Also am putting feelers out for some items I want to sell:
Squeezebox 3
Squeezebox Touch
Squeezebox Touch handheld video screen remote
AV123 xls monitors in black
AV123 xls center in a wood veneer Palisander?
AV123 xls sub in same veneer
Pioneer VSX-1016TXV receiver
Furman Ref 7it balanced power unit - 7.5 amps
-
Have put in some new cables which are promising.
Are you deciding against Paul's recipe?
-
Are you deciding against Paul's recipe?
I think my version of the interconnects is bloating the midbass and smearing the high end. But other cables I have used tend to be "bright" to me so I'll let these burn in for the week and re-evaluate. I get more delineation and detail with these but less 'meat', which may mean I was muddying up the middle frequencies w/o knowing it. Opens your eyes anyways to the difference cables can make. These are pre to amps cables.
-
Measured my entire system wattage/amp draw the other day. Monoblocks, preamp, dac, server, ethernet hub, and hard drive. Get this, 3.6 amps at normal volume levels (80 dbish avg). The preamp and dac seemed to pull the most when powered up. The amps pull ridiculously low amperage.
-
I cured my noise problems when taking measurements so I have some new plots of the room. Not bad. With an opening right to me right ear and the long wall off my left side, the independent left and right sweeps are different and the summation into a stereo plot is often a cancellation of the two as you can imagine.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96446)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96447)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96448)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96449)