AudioCircle
Industry Circles => GR Research => Topic started by: listenermark on 17 Jan 2023, 07:20 pm
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I was drawn to this hobby because of my love of music. However, as my system improved I found myself looking for recordings that would show off the gear, not necessarily my favorite music (some of my favorite genres - dub reggae, punk, techno - are not typically recorded well.) Anyone else experience this?
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This is a perpetual side effect of upgraditis, a common condition amongst audio enthusiasts. I too have had nights of fiddling and testing my system, and have to constantly remind myself to sit my ass down and enjoy the damn thing. Take a hard look at your system and know it sounds really damn good so now it's time to leave it alone and enjoy it for what it is. The upside to this common condition is I now have a newfound appreciation to several genres of music I hardly listened to previously (classical, jazz, pop, blues, etc). Much like food, tastes change over time and you begin to appreciate all flavors and styles. It's not that you appreciate your old music less, just that you now enjoy mixing it up with new items as well.
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Some rigs really show you how bad a poor recording can sound, at the same time can show you how darn good well recorded material can be. Some systems are more forgiving than others, but overall the better the system IME exaggerate bad recorded material or musical genres that typically do not have much going on dynamically. I know what you mean about reggae, some of the old studios in the Caribbean do have a rough sound no matter what equipment you have :lol:
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Nope, don’t have that problem the music comes first. I only buy music that I like and am going to listen to, I don’t go out of my way to buy audiophile recordings just because it may sound better. No point in buying something I am not going to enjoy listening to, that would be just a waste of money.
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OP -- for the type of music you listen to -- back out while you still can. If you persist, you will eventually stop listening to most of your favorite music in lieu of high-rez recordings.
If you decide not to follow this sage advice, then you must be honest with yourself: you're not walking down this audio path because you love music -- everyone loves music, so there's nothing unique about that. You're doing it for the thrill of buying and trying new gear. Don't delude yourself into thinking otherwise. Many ardent audiophiles are still in denial and insist they have some sort of special connection to music. Think about it this way -- most professional musicians aren't audiophiles.
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Nope, don’t have that problem the music comes first. I only buy music that I like and am going to listen to, I don’t go out of my way to buy audiophile recordings just because it may sound better. No point in buying something I am not going to enjoy listening to, that would be just a waste of money.
Agreed for the most part. Putting together an ultra high resolution system that only sounds its best when playing audiophile approved program material is somewhat of a fool's errand. Even an audition using audiophile approved material as a baseline for choosing a component can be a bit shortsighted. Either scenario leaves one listening to the same dozen or so albums or CD's and failing to explore or even tolerate new music that happens to fall in the lesser quality recording category. This all because one has now put together a "one trick pony" system. I've discovered over the years that choosing components that favor musicality over ultimate resolution seem to win the day. (or at least sprinkle a little forgiveness in the component chain) I simply think of it as a more balanced approach to system building. In the end, I find audiophile approved material still sounds stunning, yet I'm able to listen to and enjoy a wider variety of music even if the recording quality isn't of a high standard. As always though, we're all wired differently so YMMV.
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As I’m sorting out the system, currently setup and treatments, I’m losing my grip on that slippery slope. The problem isn’t just avoiding poor recordings. I get distracted in moments of listening to good recordings when something falls out of place in the sound stage or one or the other speaker reappears.
Sometimes I think I enjoy listening to my 30 year old inexpensive, seriously compromised desk setup more than the main system. It just sounds good.
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That’s why I build my own speakers…
Can’t justify upgrading, if it’s my own build…
Next I’ll have to try building my own amplifiers…
Supposed to be som amazing class D DIY amps… 400WPC for couple hundred bucks… less distortion than the best class A amps.
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I was drawn to this hobby because of my love of music. However, as my system improved I found myself looking for recordings that would show off the gear, not necessarily my favorite music (some of my favorite genres - dub reggae, punk, techno - are not typically recorded well.) Anyone else experience this?
I was drawn to this for the same reason “love of music” and having a similar experience, but I have also been introduced to new genres and artist. I particularly enjoy live recording and never did in the past. I also have been completely caught off guard with the way music can really sound, I did not comprehend the difference until I started the DIY journey. It is super enjoyable to keep thinking it can’t sound any better and being wrong every time! That is now part of the hobby for me.
Kelly
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I dont so much as have a love of music, but a love of immersion and escapism. It's kinda like the virtual reality and home theater hobbies. Anything that can increase the immersion is a no Brainer for me. If the music it self is the issue then I'll just move on from it. There is an enormous amount hifi music out there on tidal and qobuz.
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When I was upgrading a lot. yeah, listening to the system. But now it has sat for two years with zero changes. So it is now listening to the music. :thumb:
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When I was upgrading a lot. yeah, listening to the system. But now it has sat for two years with zero changes. So it is now listening to the music. :thumb:
Good to hear from you again, you haven't been around lately. :bowdown:
Yeah it's pretty much the same for me, I just enjoy the music now. But I still sort of analyze the sound saying to myself, damn that sounds good. 8)
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I generally turn the system on to hear it's sound after listening to TV all the time. Then if I'm lucky I get carried away and forget about sound quality and enjoy the music.
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Yes, I have definitly experienced this. Fortunately, there is a lot of well recorded music. I do struggle to listen to poorly recorded music, but sometimes you just need to power through for the love of the music.
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This is a great topic. Great responses from the regulars. I am very grateful for the regulars and all the members. I don't post much. Thank you.
I have multiple systems. I listen only to one system at time. The others are not assembled. I change infrequently. I am about to go from Omega High Output Monitors coupled with the amazing gr research OB subs. Also Audiosmile super tweeters (sorry about OT PM me for more info) Decware amplification. Will be changing back to my Altec 288b Jubilee horn system after crossover adjustment. Sorry enough context and bragging. Suffice to say I love both of these systems. Familiar with the Circles. Also have NX-Oticas to round out systems but working on getting more power for valid performance
The way I have been playing music involves ROON. If I have to play music to show off I just load into playlist track by track. I add that there are many tracks that show off a system, I enjoy most of them. Then comes when I set a play list of music I love.... my favorites...know by heart. After about a dozen or so self inflicted tracks, Roon takes over and I usually love. I have so much music, I know I have not even listened to all. Roon helps there. Peace.
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I've been saying for a while, you need two things to be in this hobby: sensitive equipment and sensitive ears. It's the latter that's the rub, which is always discerning, while being stuck to chair, eyes closed, in a virtual world where a rightness exists, but finding it is the challenge, and at what cost?
It's like the blue note. The note you may not be able to describe, but when you hear it (or play it) everything seems to fall into place--and then it slips away. Damn.
Personally, I have a hard time listening to classical music while streaming because I have records that give me that something extra, and my ears are much more welcoming of the vinyl sound. Just a personal choice.
It's taken years to adjust and tweak and upgrade and understand that system synergy coupled with room issues does lead to satisfaction--except for classical in the digital form, damn!
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Alan Parsons' qoute " Audiophiles dont use their equipment to listen to your music. They use your music to listen to their equipment".
Years ago, I listened to music I liked/loved on my modest system and throughly enjoyed it all.
Now with a MUCH better, very transparent, $7k + system, I only fully enjoy well recorded music. Ive ruined myself in a way.
Limited my cd ,lp collection. Get huge variety from Qobuz, but even Qobuz HI Rez is hit or miss.
An Analog Production or rare high quality old record is a nice finish to a night of listening. Then its, "wow, that sounds good".
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I guess I'm an oddball in this area as well. My system is highly resolving yet very musical at the same time. My music library includes CD's of varying age and recording quality both as the CD and ripped into the music server as FLAC files, SACDs, DVD audio discs, Blu-Ray discs, and vinyl. Granted, the better the recording, the richer the experience. However, I can still enjoy those old recordings because I accept them for what they are. Just like I can still enjoy an old black & white movie.
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50+ years at this has taught me that unless you are trying out a new component just sit back and enjoy the music. If the toe is a tapping and you get emotional impact that my friends is it. It is an illusion which we can only take so far.
charles
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Thinking about this a bit more I realized some things would just sound unnatural if it were reproduced impeccably. Something like old punk rock (Misfits, Ramones, etc) or old blues (Robert Johnson, Blind Lemon Jefferson, etc) would just sound weird if it were as shiny and polished like a new Taylor Swift album.
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Music first, system second. I won’t listen to music I don’t like no matter how well recorded but I will listen to music I like regardless of the recording quality.
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The types of music you mention (if as poorly recorded as you claim, which I doubt) may need a good dose of deliberate coloration in order to sound uniformly better. Luckily, this would be simply a matter of enhancing the off axis (room sound) vs the direct sound from the speakers by altering the listening/speaker positions in the room. If that isn't enough, instead of considering your problem as a fait accompli, modern dsp correction, when needed, can be used to make your music sound anyway you want it to or at the very least much more bearable.
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Ill backstep a bit from my earlier post as Nlitworld touched on.
I admit, I enjoy my oldest record 1958? Julie London. Mono with some pops and crackles, but it kind of adds authenticity to that era with her smokey voice and simple jazz trio.
However, my Analog Production lp with a couple of her songs is very clean and sounds beautiful.
Many of my old fav records, cds and now digital files are unlistenable anymore on my upgraded system.
Such as recordings by Neil Young, Moody Blues, Pretenders, U2, etc.
Not alls lost as these same poor recordings are fine played as background through my wifes low end $200 JBL bluetooth "pill" speakers by the pool.
So, I guess not all music has to be enjoyed in the sweet spot LP of a multi $k system.
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Throughout my journey as an audiophile my initial goal was to reach the performance level of the best system I had heard at the time. Or get as close to it as possible on a very limited budget. Since then I’ve heard many systems and some even more impressive than I could’ve ever imagined.
Probably the worst lesson I’ve learned is that the best costs more than what most people consider… reasonable. It’s not to say one cannot put together a satisfying stereo at a reasonable price. Just as long as one accepts compromises. It’s almost a curse to hear the best. The good news is that the cost of excellent performance has come down.
I’ve gone back and forth between listening to the system and listening to the music. The former was usually due to the previously mentioned compromises. Happily I’ve finally reached a level of performance that brings me back to the music. While I haven’t tested my poorer quality recordings, so far I haven’t found one that is unlistenable.
Oh, and Danny’s kits are some of the best speakers out there for the money!
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Probably the worst lesson I’ve learned is that the best costs more than what most people consider… reasonable. It’s not to say one cannot put together a satisfying stereo at a reasonable price. Just as long as one accepts compromises. It’s almost a curse to hear the best. The good news is that the cost of excellent performance has come down.
Yep. The more you spend, the more you realize how far away you still are from the best systems out there. Believe it or not, there's a huge sonic difference between a $2,000 DAC and a $10,000 DAC, generally speaking. So if you buy a $5K DAC, you'll yearn for the $10K one (and for some people, a $10K DAC is their low end). Although the cost is coming down for great performance (think: Purifi, Mini GaN5, etc.), the cost is rapidly increasing for the best gear.
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I feel this. While I haven’t heard any $10,000+ single pieces of equipment, my total headphone system is close to that amount. I never thought I would spend this much to enjoy music, but after each new purchase I couldn’t help but be tempted to hear the next upgrade.
I also agree that the highest end gear s getting more and more expensive, but the entry level
options have never been a value. It’s a great time to be in the audio hobby.
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So does it actually cost the most to build the best quality products, or are the best sounding products able to charge the most? We see this most with cables and least with speakers. We have a great guy here on AC who's basically selling an uber expensive German amp for a tenth of the price of the high priced spread. Another well respected manufacturer here has a couple of mono blocks on Stereophile's class A list for very reasonable prices. Both of these guys started out on the bargain basement rack and have maintained the value for cost model. So that begs the question is high price more vanity than than actual sound quality. With speakers it's pretty hard to get past the laws of physics and BOM, you're generally getting what you see, with cables anything goes, where do amps, dacs, and preamps fall in that spectrum?
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I LOVE listening to 80's music but unfortunately most of them are recorded horribly. I can't listen to them on my MartinLogan ESL for too long. I listen to classical and modern well recorded music at home and listen to 80's music in the car.
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A most enjoyable thread to read through. It's good to briefly get away from the excellent tech topics and get some insight on how each of your hearts, minds, and ears all come together in your own special ways in our shared hobby.
For me, I listen to both the music and the system concurrently. The weighting between the two depends on my mood and the music (type and quality of recording) being played. The duration and extent of the weighting shifts all over the place from seconds to minutes to hours.... it's a playground. :D
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I’ve found that while searching for music to “test” my system I’ve actually discovered lots of great music! ;-)