AudioCircle

Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Owner's Circles => Digital Amplifier Company Owners => Topic started by: AmpDesigner333 on 12 Aug 2008, 03:26 am

Title: Cherry Amplifier® ---- What We're About 🍒
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 12 Aug 2008, 03:26 am
I left the post below intact.  It was posted about 10 years ago.  Since then, we have held on to our values and continued to deliver!

Here's an updated take on where we stand as a company NOW.  This is for my fellow audio enthusiasts....

Digital Amp Co was founded in 1996. Amplifier IP Development was our initial business model. In 2006, we decided to build finished amplifier products, and in 2008, we started the Cherry Amplifier (R) brand. It has been quite a ride since then! We built high quality Class-D amplifiers (and related products) designed for sound quality as opposed to bench specs. However, our bench specs were still pretty admirable. Our philosophy entails developing products for measurable performance first, sometimes achieving outrageously good performance, such as amplifiers nearing 130dB SNR and 0.000x% distortion. THEN, we tweak the circuitry for sonic implications. We have become quite good at this, and through experience (30 years designing Class-D here), we were able to figure out which circuit changes yield certain effects on the sound. We wanted to deliver transparency, but without the typical side effect of an analytical sound. We don't use one-size-fits-all pre-fab modules like other manufacturers. In fact, we are one of the few companies left that actually designs their own amplifier circuits, from the smallest component up. The rest of the pack simply throws a pre-fab module (with it's inherent markup) in a fancy box. We also don't use gobs of negative feedback in our designs. This gives us excellent transient handling without HF noise and ringing. Remember the screechy sound of high power 1980s Class-AB amplifiers? Well, they also used huge amounts of negative feedback, but at least in those amps, the bandwidth was available to allow simple compensation networks in the feedback loop. Our designs run more than 4 times faster than most Class-D amps on the market, and this gives us the bandwidth necessary to avoid the pitfalls of other Class-D amps. Plus, we have developed our own patented and proprietary modulation technology, providing excellent control of even the most powerful output stages. Many Class-D amps on the market use the huge feedback to artificially extend bandwidth, and the result is a strained sound where the listener can't quite put their finger on what's bothering them.

We believe in science and engineering. We stand firmly against audio snake oil and audio foolery. We measure our success with test equipment AND the ears of many experienced listeners. One without the other is simply inadequate as far as we're concerned. We act as engineers, not as marketers.

We also sell direct, eliminating the huge margins associated with dealer sales. This has made it an uphill battle to get exposure since other amplifier makers spend more than half their budget on marketing, passing the expense to their customers. We rely mostly on word of mouth to attain new customers, and due to the quality of our products and services, this has worked for us. LACK of advertising is another way we are able to produce hardware with super high quality components backed by large R&D efforts. This also hurts our ability to get professional reviews where the goal of the publication is to secure an advertising deal or simply promote their existing advertiser's products. Our customers are very happy. We understand better than most manufactures that our customers are the reason we exist, and we treat them with the respect they deserve. We customize hardware for individual needs. We strive to build a relationship with our customers while other manufactures look at their customers as a number on a spreadsheet. The result? We have created some of the best audio products in the world.

Class-D was invented with the purpose of high power efficiency, but our amps run a little on the "hot" side at idle, but efficiency at maximum power is more than 90%. What we have developed is like the Class-A of Class-D, and we believe that our amps can beat the sonic performance of Class-A.

We are currently running a Kickstarter project. This is our 5th one. Our last 4 were all successfully funded. Our customers are loyal as well, and know they will get a great return on their investment by participating in our campaigns. The purpose of the current project is to introduce the MEGAschino, a high power, high sonic performance amplifier. It's the culmination of 30+ years developing high performance amplifiers.

This is straight from the heart. We believe in what we do, and we're especially conscious of how we affect our customer's lives. Music is a source of happiness for our customers, and we want to maximize their enjoyment. So, if you're the kind of audio fan that wants the BEST, give us a look, or better yet, a listen. You'll be glad you did. Thanks for reading about Cherry Amplifiers and Digital Amplifier Company.

Tommy O
Founder
Digital Amp Co
CherryAmp.com
Music Should be Sweet

-------------------------------------

I'm the founder of Digital Amplifier Company (1996).  On our web site, we explain that we don't go to trade shows or pay for standard print or web advertising.  We sell direct to save our customers the typical dealer margin (can sometimes double your price).  Do you have any thoughts on this?

This post is to get feedback about our products.  If you have auditioned or purchased either of our current products, please give us a shout.  The DAC4800A is a 1000W amp and the Cherry is a 1200W amp.  They are both 2-channel units and have very respectable specs (<0.009% distortion, near 120dB SNR).  Some have said that our amps are the best they have ever heard regardless of price.  Reviews are posted on our site and on Amazon.com (we sell there too).

Please let us know if you have heard one of our amps or if you have visited our web site (www.DigitalAmp.com).  I'd like to get some feedback ASAP, especially concerning comparisons with other high end amps.  We plan to introduce some new stuff soon as well.  I'm offering my expertise regarding digital (Class-D) amps since I have been designing them since the mid 1980s.  If you have questions about these designs, let me know, and I'll try and answer them.  Thanks very much.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: THE_ANSWERS on 13 Aug 2008, 07:23 pm
I heard the 4800A on Quads 988.     Very Awesome Amp!
that is compared to a few tube amps.........       the dac amp was quieter, much much stronger, and smaller, no heat

also, I heard it compared to Adcom highest power units on some   m a s s i v e home-brew speakers a buddy of mine has.  these speakers had 4 subs Per Side and 8 mid-woofs [seas?] plus ribbon tweeters!!!! unreal!!! the dac amp totally pounded. sweet. he moved away and I was so stupid not to buy his system. he did not want to move it! just low on cash then......



too much to ask how or why this is so good??  maybe in general the priceis up there with the high end brands but nobody heard of d.a.c.  that's a shame.

good luck. maybe you should sell through dealers, huh?

:D
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: hmen on 13 Aug 2008, 09:39 pm
I just checked out the website and there are no professional reviews but I found this question in the FAQ section

Why does the DAC4800A sound so good?

That's what I call clever marketing.
 
Also, don't you just love it when someone announces a new product and all of a sudden another person appears on the same thread, making their first post, to tell us how awesome that product is?   
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: DMF on 13 Aug 2008, 09:51 pm
Due to limited production, we encourage you to purchase at least one of these amazing amps TODAY!  Limit three units per customer.

These are priced at $6000.00 each.

I better get my order in now  :wink:
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 14 Aug 2008, 02:44 am
I spent the better part of my life developing amplifier technology and God Forbid I try to get the word out about my products!  I guess only trust fund kids are allowed to do stuff like that since they can afford elaborate marketing programs.

Remember, marketing adds nothing to the product but cost!  What would you rather pay for when you buy an amp; a few harmless blog entries, or three trade shows and 10 magazine ads?

A lot of people are mean spirited toward "creative types", and usually they are the people who have never created anything.

Let me tell you why there are no "professional" reviews (yet)...  Try getting one when you only sell direct and don't pay for advertising!  Industry magazines and web sites CHOOSE what they want to review, and just guess what companies get attention.  We're not playing the "game", so we don't get the exposure.  We even had one very popular online reviewer tell us he would do a nice review if we give him free samples that he can sell after doing the review.  When we said we would want the product back after the review he told us that he'll block our emails and didn't want to deal with our "nonsense".  We have also heard stuff like "once there are a few published reviews out there, I'll do one".  I bet if I had $100K/yr worth of ads in these places, there would be no hesitation.  Remember this the next time you read a "professional" review.  I'm not saying they are all biased, by the way.

The first large circulation magazine that reviews one of our products will be proving something as far as I'm concerned --- proving they have the guts that others don't.

...Well, all this hasn't stopped a great group of people we are proud to call our customers from taking the chance on a no-name brand, and guess what?  They ALL LOVE IT!  They also love the fact that their money isn't going toward funds for trade shows and advertising.  Their money is buying hardware, and lots of it.  We are very proud of this.  Thank you for reading this.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: kavu on 14 Aug 2008, 03:36 am

...Well, all this hasn't stopped a great group of people we are proud to call our customers from taking the chance on a no-name brand, and guess what?  They ALL LOVE IT!  They also love the fact that their money isn't going toward funds for trade shows and advertising.  Their money is buying hardware, and lots of it.  We are very proud of this.  Thank you for reading this.


Cool....are there any that have posted more than once on these boards?
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 14 Aug 2008, 03:49 am
kavu: Thanks for your post.
Not sure how many of our customers have been on this board, but we're working on it. We plan to ask our subscriber base.

Here's the link to sign up in case you're interested:
http://bit.ly/1G8bsxZ
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: denjo on 14 Aug 2008, 05:01 am
AmpDesigner 333

I like your philosophy and hope you will succeed in your creative venture! And when you do, don't forget that customer service is one of the pillars to a successful audio business! Krell started as a backyard project to beat the Big Boys and succeeded to become one of the most successful audio brands but they forgot about their customers once they tasted the dizzy heights of success! I had an experience with their customer service and speak from the perspective of my experience.

I know how hard it is to convince the consumer that you have a great product in hand, beyond the marketing hyperbole!

Best Regards
Dennis

Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 14 Aug 2008, 05:50 am
Dennis,

Thanks for your post and kind thoughts.  This means a lot!

By the way, I have a KST-100 I'm looking to sell (seriously)...  As you can imagine I have had MANY amps for comparison purposes.

Our customers are so great and have written reviews for us, told their friends, and even had "come over and hear my system" gatherings in their house!  Without their support, we'd be NOTHING!

I know a guy in NJ that worked for a large semiconductor company and he had an idea to make really compact DC/DC converters for industrial applications.  He worked in his basement for years until he finally got funded by VC money, back when that was a common option.  He now sells millions of chips, but the VC guys pretty much own his company!  This is what we're trying to avoid.  There are lots of people with cash out there and no ideas or no ability to execute on ideas even if they had them.  They treat start up companies as prey.  At one point, we were trying to sell our patented technology to chip companies, but all they wanted to do was pick our brains and see what they can do to turn our work into mass market crap.  It was a blessing in disguise when a large money deal fell through, otherwise, there would be no "Digital Amplifier Company" today.

Do you have an audio company or a company of some other type?  Sounds like you know a little about business...

Many thanks again!

Best Regards,
AmpDesigner333 / www.DigitalAmp.com
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: jhm731 on 14 Aug 2008, 08:02 am
Please post a picture of the inside of your product, so we can see that it's more than just another repackaged Ice amp.

Based on what I see on your website, if I wanted a high power Class D amp, I'd pay the extra $1200. to get a Spectron MIII Signature MK.2. 8)

Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: cab on 14 Aug 2008, 11:53 am
On your web site you mention that your amps use pre, rather than post, filter feedback which you claim reduces distortion. Can you explain how pre-filter feedback reduces distortion more than post-filter?  Thanks.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: THE_ANSWERS on 14 Aug 2008, 03:30 pm
to hmen

   I knew the post went up ahead of time       s o   w h a t ?
man, you are nasty  give a guy a break dude
my friend with the custom speakers is friends with the d.a.c. guy and I gladly provide a review cause i like stuff thats unique /uncommon.  someday I'll buy one too  everybody else can have their same old krell or bryston   b o r i n g
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 14 Aug 2008, 04:19 pm
Why feedback around the filter is bad news...

Well, let me start by saying that the filter's reactance destroys phase margin so the feedback then needs to go through more stages to compensate.  The compensation causes delay, and the loop becomes sloppy.  Looking at it in the time domain, you never recover from delay.

The difference in THD+N can be quite large, especially when driving a speaker (not just a load resistor as is done for most testing).  There's no magic in control theory.  I have seen (and tried) modulation methods that actually use the filter to control the modulation, and they suffer from an even worse problem --- the speaker reactance and output current can swing the modulation frequency into the audio band during peaks.  There are ways to protect against this effect or minimize it, but that just adds more circuitry.  I prefer keeping simple things simple and just doing them right from the start.  A properly designed output filter is invisible audio wise.

The bottom line is that I've tried both methods and even spent a few years on this issue!  Compensation networks can get complicated, and when you start piling filter on top of filter the effect on the sound can be quite noticeable.

I had to "fix" someone elses design once (a pro audio amp --- designed those for several years) that had something like 10 poles in the feedback network.  That's not what I call a good design.  I think the original designer (a consultant) was trying to make it so complicated that only he would understand it.  Well, we saw through the weeds and improved the design.

Amps with feedback around the filter just don't sound as accurate.  I'll explain later why most Class-D designs on the market aren't all that good, and feedback topology is on the list.  Thanks for the question, cab.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: TomS on 14 Aug 2008, 04:35 pm
Please post a picture of the inside of your product, so we can see that it's more than just another repackaged Ice amp.

Based on what I see on your website, if I wanted a high power Class D amp, I'd pay the extra $1200. to get a Spectron MIII Signature MK.2. 8)



Here ya go...

Yes, tough crowd here but $6k is a chunk of change.  From the looks of it, it's mostly for the IP inside  :wink:

With regard to your original question, some manufacturers have achieved valuable initial exposure with RMAF, since it caters directly to buyers, unlike CES trade only type shows.  Emerald Physics comes to mind, as without that show I'm not sure many would have paid attention to them.  Underwood caught their initial wave and then took it from there.  Just my .02 and best of luck to you.

Tom

(http://www.digitalamp.com/Picture%203623.jpg)
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: tvyankee on 14 Aug 2008, 05:08 pm
hello

not trying to get into it but why does this amp cost $6000.00.  just wondering.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: jhm731 on 14 Aug 2008, 05:24 pm
Thanks for the picture. I assume that's the $3600. DAC4800A?

Here's a picture of the inside of my $2500. digital amp. It has five digital inputs, programable crossovers
filter and full remote control. No negative feedback. 90% efficiency.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/gallery/albums/userpics/50229/Signature_2150.JPG)
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: TomS on 14 Aug 2008, 05:37 pm
Yes, I think the one I posted for him is the 4800.  The Cherry apparently has a bigger transformer, and a heavier red faceplate, among other things.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mcullinan on 14 Aug 2008, 05:42 pm
Interior of my Nuforce 9 SEv2 about 5K/Pair
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=15590)
Mike
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: andrewbee on 14 Aug 2008, 07:06 pm
http://www.41hz.com/Forums/photo_gallery.asp?action=displayimage&photo=460&loc=/gallery/andrewbee/DSCF0219.jpg (http://www.41hz.com/Forums/photo_gallery.asp?action=displayimage&photo=460&loc=/gallery/andrewbee/DSCF0219.jpg)

link to my home made "digital amp". Truepath from 41hz.com

It only cost me ~ USD600.00 total including shipping and customs charges so you guys are slumming in my neighbourhood :lol:

Whats a digital amp anyway? 1 bit stuff?
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 14 Aug 2008, 07:45 pm
A few quick notes, then back to a schematic I'm working on...

The amp jhm731 shows is open loop.  Two of my patents are on open loop (groundbreaking at the time, 1999), and my design for that (processing done originally in an FPGA) eventually became the property of ST Microsystems.  Open loop is just not capable of the kind of performance we are talking about with the DAC4800A and Cherry amps.  Open loop is OK for 100W and lower A/V Receiver type products, but not a 1000W+ high end amp.

Regarding NuForce, I heard it's actually a decent amp, but the specs aren't as good as DAC4800A or Cherry.  Nuforce's ref9-v2 (their top of the line unit?) puts out less than half the output power of DAC4800A, higher THD+N (0.03% versus our <0.009%), and much lower SNR (by more than 12 db!).  Plus, you have the same old thing about paying for trade shows and advertising.

Regarding price, although the list price for the DAC4800A is $3600 and the Cherry is $6000, we frequently discount them to our newsletter subscribers (nearly half price), and we also offer a demo unit here and there.  The price on Amazon for the DAC4800A refurb unit is $2799, and that's upgraded to new modules and fully tested!  Very clean.  Very nice.

Our amps are built with OUR OWN TECHNOLOGY, not some off-the-shelf chip set or module.  We build in the USA as well in case that matters to you.

More later...
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: jhm731 on 14 Aug 2008, 08:35 pm
A few quick notes, then back to a schematic I'm working on...

The amp jhm731 shows is open loop.  Two of my patents are on open loop (groundbreaking at the time, 1999), and my design for that (processing done originally in an FPGA) eventually became the property of ST Microsystems.  Open loop is just not capable of the kind of performance we are talking about with the DAC4800A and Cherry amps.  Open loop is OK for 100W and lower A/V Receiver type products, but not a 1000W+ high end amp.

Regarding NuForce, I heard it's actually a decent amp, but the specs aren't as good as DAC4800A or Cherry.  Nuforce's ref9-v2 (their top of the line unit?) puts out less than half the output power of DAC4800A, higher THD+N (0.03% versus our <0.009%), and much lower SNR (by more than 12 db!).  Plus, you have the same old thing about paying for trade shows and advertising.

Regarding price, although the list price for the DAC4800A is $3600 and the Cherry is $6000, we frequently discount them to our newsletter subscribers (nearly half price), and we also offer a demo unit here and there.  The price on Amazon for the DAC4800A refurb unit is $2799, and that's upgraded to new modules and fully tested!  Very clean.  Very nice.

Our amps are built with OUR OWN TECHNOLOGY, not some off-the-shelf chip set or module.  We build in the USA as well in case that matters to you.

More later...


The amp in the picture is rated at 150watts at 8ohms and 300watts at 4ohms, other versions from this manufacture have higher ratings.

From pictures of your amps, I see nothing in parts or build quality to justify your asking or half off pricing.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: bummrush on 14 Aug 2008, 10:11 pm
what a waste of time
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: cab on 14 Aug 2008, 10:40 pm
Are you familiar with the UCD design from Bruno Putskey (my apologies in advance for mis-spelling Bruno's name)???? I understand it is a simple, elegant solution with excellent specs and exceptional sound....
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 14 Aug 2008, 11:27 pm
what a waste of time

Why do you say this?  A comment like that is better left unsaid.  Being negative like that can only do you harm.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 14 Aug 2008, 11:36 pm
Are you familiar with the UCD design from Bruno Putskey (my apologies in advance for mis-spelling Bruno's name)???? I understand it is a simple, elegant solution with excellent specs and exceptional sound....

Yes, I've known Bruno since 2001 or so (he worked for Philips then).  We corresponded often, and I think he's pretty much a genius!

DAC's design differs in several ways, most notably the feedback design.  He now sells modules to DIY individuals and companies.  I did hear that his designs sound great, but I'm not too familiar with his work over the last year or so.  I liked his direct digital stuff better than the analog stuff.  He had a really neat design for medium power way back, but it was pretty expensive.  There was an AES paper on it years ago.  We're both AES members.

I'll write him and ask him to check this topic...  Thanks for your kind post.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 14 Aug 2008, 11:51 pm

The amp in the picture is rated at 150watts at 8ohms and 300watts at 4ohms, other versions from this manufacture have higher ratings.

From pictures of you amps, I see nothing in parts or build quality to justify your asking or half off pricing.

jhm731,

Our customers TOTALLY disagree with you, and they put their hard earned money on it!

You can't tell from the picture that the DAC4800A has 6 boards in it, stuffed with premium (expensive) components.  Wire, connectors, transformer, all premium parts, and some costly custom stuff as well.  We believe in quality-in, quality-out.  The chassis is 16 gauge steel.  The Cherry has a faceplate that costs more to make than many complete high end amps!

You can't judge sound quality from a picture, but you can compare measurements, and that's what I did.  Plus, we receive LOTS of compliments on the build quality of the DAC4800A and Cherry.  People have said "like a tank", "super sturdy", and similar accolades.  Thanks for your post.

Regards,
AmpDesigner333
www.DigitalAmp.com
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 15 Aug 2008, 12:43 am
Please post a picture of the inside of your product, so we can see that it's more than just another repackaged Ice amp.

Based on what I see on your website, if I wanted a high power Class D amp, I'd pay the extra $1200. to get a Spectron MIII Signature MK.2. 8)



The Spectron unit has pretty respectable specs, but THD is about 5x the DAC amps.  Also, I concluded that the outputs are bridged (the "black" binding post is not GND), so the two channels can't be bridged.  This means twice the output filter components --- the audio goes through more before getting to the speaker.  FYI, a DAC4800A can be bridged for 1000W into 8 ohms (killer amp for a passive sub).

I consulted for Harris Semiconductor back in the mid 90s.  They went back to being Intersil shortly after that.  At the time they were marketing their MOSFET drivers to Class-D amplifier makers.  Spectron came out with a 500W x 2 amp a few years later (correct me on the time line if I'm wrong).  It used the old fashioned triangle wave and comparator type modulation.  Based on the text that Spectron has on their site, it looks like they still use this technique.  We built amps like that in the 1980s and early 1990s (before DAC was officially founded) but abandoned the technique for more advanced methods.  I'm not saying that the old way can't be done well, however, and the specs prove that it can.

The same comment I had earlier about paying for trade shows and advertising applies to any mass market amp.  We prefer not to call our products "mass market" --- they are specialty products.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: jhm731 on 15 Aug 2008, 12:58 am
Please post a picture of the inside of your product, so we can see that it's more than just another repackaged Ice amp.

Based on what I see on your website, if I wanted a high power Class D amp, I'd pay the extra $1200. to get a Spectron MIII Signature MK.2. 8)



The Spectron unit has pretty respectable specs, but THD is about 5x the DAC amps.  Also, I concluded that the outputs are bridged (the "black" binding post is not GND), so the two channels can't be bridged.  This means twice the output filter components --- the audio goes through more before getting to the speaker.  FYI, a DAC4800A can be bridged for 1000W into 8 ohms (killer amp for a passive sub).

I consulted for Harris Semiconductor back in the mid 90s.  They went back to being Intersil shortly after that.  At the time they were marketing their MOSFET drivers to Class-D amplifier makers.  Spectron came out with a 500W x 2 amp a few years later (correct me on the time line if I'm wrong).  It used the old fashioned triangle wave and comparator type modulation.  Based on the text that Spectron has on their site, it looks like they still use this technique.  We built amps like that in the 1980s and early 1990s (before DAC was officially founded) but abandoned the technique for more advanced methods.  I'm not saying that the old way can't be done well, however, and the specs prove that it can.

The same comment I had earlier about paying for trade shows and advertising applies to any mass market amp.  We prefer not to call our products "mass market" --- they are specialty products.


You can't judge sound quality from measurements or specs either.

If you think your amps can outperform the Spectron MIII Signature MK.2, I can put you in touch with a reviewer that has Spectron MIII Signature MK.2 monos(http://www.spectronaudio.com/monoblocks.htm) and stereo amps.

Good luck for your products.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: bummrush on 15 Aug 2008, 01:40 am
Because i've listened to quite a few and despite all the hype that went with them,was quite disappointing,thats all.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: pbrstreetgang on 15 Aug 2008, 01:47 am
http://www.iceh2oaudio.com/index_htm.html (http://www.iceh2oaudio.com/index_htm.html)

Here is a pic of a 2K H20 100x2 based on a modified B&O module. I would like to hear yours of course but ones with huge PS and dual transformers are hard to pass up. Also I raised a brow a bit on the suggestion of a 6K amp on a sub  :duh:
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 15 Aug 2008, 02:27 am
Because i've listened to quite a few and despite all the hype that went with them,was quite disappointing,thats all.

Sorry, I was a little strong in my tone.  Here's something I wrote recently to an audio magazine...

We have relied on word of mouth (or word-of-web) to spread the news of our products.  Many of our competitors are well established companies that have come out with similar products (functionally) despite a serious lack of design experience in this very difficult field.  I have been designing digital amps (and some analog ones too) for 20 years, and believe me when I say that there is no substitute for experience.  However, these competitors put the bulk of their sales revenue into elaborate marketing campaigns, not into their hardware or technology development.  As a result, there are a bunch of underwhelming digital amps on the market, giving a bad name to an amplifier technology that can yield the ultimate in audio when done just right.  We put the cash into our products and treat our customers like gold, but the crowded market sometimes buries us in the noise.


Thanks very much for your kind reply.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: 2bigears on 15 Aug 2008, 02:27 am
:D  these digie amps sure are comin' at us from all sides now....they say it's in the name of dynamics which is also headroom, or stand-by power....3500w for 0.5 second ready for music peaks.would a conventional amp with 600 or 1kw wpc also do this ?? :scratch: :D
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 15 Aug 2008, 02:35 am
http://www.iceh2oaudio.com/index_htm.html (http://www.iceh2oaudio.com/index_htm.html)

Here is a pic of a 2K H20 100x2 based on a modified B&O module. I would like to hear yours of course but ones with huge PS and dual transformers are hard to pass up. Also I raised a brow a bit on the suggestion of a 6K amp on a sub  :duh:

The DAC4800A is $3600 list and there's one on Ebay for $1499!
The Cherry is $6000 list, but no web deals on that just yet.  If you're interested, write to dacsales@DigitalAmp.com and maybe you can get an "early adopter" special.  Subscribers of the private DAC newsletter get a few deals, too.

I did listening tests and measurements on a PS Audio amp based on "customized" B&O modules, and the DAC4800A blew it away in every respect.  Hands down.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 15 Aug 2008, 02:43 am
:D  these digie amps sure are comin' at us from all sides now....they say it's in the name of dynamics which is also headroom, or stand-by power....3500w for 0.5 second ready for music peaks.would a conventional amp with 600 or 1kw wpc also do this ?? :scratch: :D

Our amps are not "typical" Class-D due to a large body of work in the field over decades.

The low level detail is actually what customers rave about the most.  Sure, having lots of power doesn't hurt, but the DAC4800A and especially Cherry use a patented modulation technique that allows minimal feedback, high speed, and extremely linear response through the critical crossover (positive to negative output current transition) region.  THD is below 0.01% down to milliwatts and up to hundreds of watts.  These specs are superior, but the sound is the "proof in the pudding".

Thank you for your great post!
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: tvyankee on 15 Aug 2008, 02:59 am
hello

you seem like a guy who knows what he is talking about and seem to be very much a part of this crazy hobby.  if i were you and don't take this the wrong way but i would re-think your price structure. if your and early bird and you can find it on amazon referb and stuff like this people here are not going to take you seriously.  come up with a price that works for you and stick with it.  any other way makes it seem like your not sure of yourself.

Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: lonewolfny42 on 15 Aug 2008, 03:47 am
AmpDesigner333 ....
Quote
.....and there's one on Ebay for $1499...

Link.... (http://cgi.ebay.com/DAC4800A-Amp-1000W-BEST-HOME-STEREO-DIGITAL-AMPLIFIER_W0QQitemZ120294034573QQihZ002QQcategoryZ39783QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: art on 15 Aug 2008, 04:44 am

Sorry, I was a little strong in my tone.  Here's something I wrote recently to an audio magazine...

We have relied on word of mouth (or word-of-web) to spread the news of our products.  Many of our competitors are well established companies that have come out with similar products (functionally) despite a serious lack of design experience in this very difficult field.  I have been designing digital amps (and some analog ones too) for 20 years, and believe me when I say that there is no substitute for experience.  However, these competitors put the bulk of their sales revenue into elaborate marketing campaigns, not into their hardware or technology development.  As a result, there are a bunch of underwhelming digital amps on the market, giving a bad name to an amplifier technology that can yield the ultimate in audio when done just right.  We put the cash into our products and treat our customers like gold, but the crowded market sometimes buries us in the noise.


Thanks very much for your kind reply.

If you have been designing amps for that long (and I have no reason to think otherwise), then you should accurately state that they are Class D and not digital. They are, in fact, analog. Ask our mutual friend Bruno if you don't believe me.

BTW......we don't go to trade shows either. Might be all that we agree on. I have worked on amps without feedback after the filter that have peaking problems. I prefer amps with feedback after the filter. (Ask Bruno why!)

Best wishes on your product line.

Pat
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 15 Aug 2008, 06:16 am

Sorry, I was a little strong in my tone.  Here's something I wrote recently to an audio magazine...

We have relied on word of mouth (or word-of-web) to spread the news of our products.  Many of our competitors are well established companies that have come out with similar products (functionally) despite a serious lack of design experience in this very difficult field.  I have been designing digital amps (and some analog ones too) for 20 years, and believe me when I say that there is no substitute for experience.  However, these competitors put the bulk of their sales revenue into elaborate marketing campaigns, not into their hardware or technology development.  As a result, there are a bunch of underwhelming digital amps on the market, giving a bad name to an amplifier technology that can yield the ultimate in audio when done just right.  We put the cash into our products and treat our customers like gold, but the crowded market sometimes buries us in the noise.


Thanks very much for your kind reply.

If you have been designing amps for that long (and I have no reason to think otherwise), then you should accurately state that they are Class D and not digital. They are, in fact, analog. Ask our mutual friend Bruno if you don't believe me.

BTW......we don't go to trade shows either. Might be all that we agree on. I have worked on amps without feedback after the filter that have peaking problems. I prefer amps with feedback after the filter. (Ask Bruno why!)

Best wishes on your product line.

Pat

Haven't heard back from Bruno yet, but I did email him today...

I have designed many open loop "true digital amps".  This is why I had to learn VHDL in the 90s.  At one point, I designed cell phone ASICs, so learning VHDL came in handy!  I'm actually a "Computer and Electrical Engineer", officially.

Yes, I agree that analog input switching amps sound best (for now).  I'm working on a new approach to fix that!

Here's something I wrote with a little background on amp technology in general.  It explains misuse of the term "digital amp":

Audio amplifiers are used in a variety of products from MP3 players to concert sound systems. Historically, these amplifiers are based on an inefficient circuit topology known as Class-AB, which wastes nearly half the power it consumes as heat. During the last decade, an alternate approach to amplifier circuit design, Class-D, has enjoyed steadily increasing commercial success. The reasons for the shift to Class-D are simple, near 100% power efficiency and the availability of power devices capably of satisfying the speed and current carrying requirements of Class-D amplification. However, Class-D amplifiers, also known as “digital amplifiers”, are difficult to design for low noise and low distortion. Very few Class-D amplifiers on the market are considered to have good enough audio performance to be referred to as “high end”. There are other topologies popular in the high end audio market, such as tube based and Class-A (even more inefficient than Class-AB). The subject of amplifier topology and design is rather involved, so it is only touched upon here to provide a background to those not seasoned in the field.

An amplifier that uses its output devices as switches is a Class-D amplifier. Therefore, a “switching amplifier” is a Class-D amplifier. The term “digital amplifier” is actually a misnomer, but has undeniable traction in the industry. There are other ongoing nomenclature debates regarding “digital amplifiers”. Some industry players wish to differentiate digital input Class-D amplifiers from analog input Class-D amplifiers by calling digital input Class-D amplifiers “true digital amplifiers”. Several companies have also introduced amplifier products (mostly chip level) with fictitious class designations such as “Class-Z”. This is a marketing tactic only and looked down upon by industry professionals in recent years.


You may wonder why we called our company "Digital Amplifier Company"...  Well, at the time, we were selling only open loop amps which were truly digital up to the output stage.  Actually, we did analog input, then digital input, then analog input.  Now we are working on a combo that can do both!

Thanks for your kind post!
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: denjo on 15 Aug 2008, 08:55 am
Dennis,
Do you have an audio company or a company of some other type?  Sounds like you know a little about business...

Best Regards,
AmpDesigner333 / www.DigitalAmp.com


AmpDesigner 333

No, I am not in business but just thinking out loud, coupled with some bad experiences I have had with audio manufacturers in the 15 odd years that I have been in this hobby.

I think you will find that with a company or product name that incorporates the acronym "DAC", some might be misled to think that you were offering a Digital Analogue Converter or an amplifier with DAC within. At least that was my initial impression before I visited your website. Just a thought!

Best Regards
Dennis
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: THE_ANSWERS on 15 Aug 2008, 02:15 pm
hello

you seem like a guy who knows what he is talking about and seem to be very much a part of this crazy hobby.  if i were you and don't take this the wrong way but i would re-think your price structure. if your and early bird and you can find it on amazon referb and stuff like this people here are not going to take you seriously.  come up with a price that works for you and stick with it.  any other way makes it seem like your not sure of yourself.



I agree . what is the   r e a l   price?  do you get sized up ?  my buddy told me his was 1500 but why is it 3600 on the web site and 2700 (?) on amazon and what the hell is it doing on amazon .  nobody buys serious gear there!!!!!!     why not audiogon



still the product is good like I said before.    just being devils advocate  :)
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mcullinan on 15 Aug 2008, 02:26 pm
Yeah.. 1500 for a cherry...
Or maybe have a Tour amongst the audiophiles and let us be the judge. and jury.
:)
Id check em out.
Mike
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 15 Aug 2008, 02:57 pm
Yeah.. 1500 for a cherry...
Or maybe have a Tour amongst the audiophiles and let us be the judge. and jury.
:)
Id check em out.
Mike

Interesting idea!  Travel can be expensive, though.  On a related note, while searching around (Google), I found this:
http://www.electronics-vault.com/audio-video/13-281053-B001B0VXRW-Cherry_Amp__Ultra_Linear_Stereo_2_Channel_Digital_Power_Amplifier_for_High_Performance_High_End_Music_Studio_and_Reference_Audio_Systems__Beats_Tubes_and_Class_A__1200W.html

Looks like a company that re-formats Amazon listings or something.  Did you ever hear of "electronics-vault"?  We had nothing to do with this site showing our product!  They have the Cherry amp up there too!  Do you know of others like this?  I've seen this kind of thing before but didn't save the info.  Regarding prices, I'll comment in a separate post.

Thanks again for your good posts.  Have a nice weekend!
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mfsoa on 15 Aug 2008, 06:50 pm
Hmmmm...

South Whitehall PA is <1.5H from the October Rave (30 min N of Newhope)

Maybe the NYAR wants to extend an invite?

Have we had a massive amp shootout lately?  (I could get a pr of 802Ds for the day, if we need something to sink power into)

-Mike
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 15 Aug 2008, 06:52 pm
hello

you seem like a guy who knows what he is talking about and seem to be very much a part of this crazy hobby.  if i were you and don't take this the wrong way but i would re-think your price structure. if your and early bird and you can find it on amazon referb and stuff like this people here are not going to take you seriously.  come up with a price that works for you and stick with it.  any other way makes it seem like your not sure of yourself.



I agree . what is the   r e a l   price?  do you get sized up ?  my buddy told me his was 1500 but why is it 3600 on the web site and 2700 (?) on amazon and what the hell is it doing on amazon .  nobody buys serious gear there!!!!!!     why not audiogon



still the product is good like I said before.    just being devils advocate  :)



Let me explain, please.   We had a large material cost increase last year and ate the cost.  We also made some design changes along the way (better chassis design, etc.), so there are old and new versions of the DAC4800A.  We also upgrade the older version and sell it as a refurb.  Early on, we sold a few prototypes really cheap.

How many times have you seen high end equipment with the same price EVERYWHERE?  You don't think dealers have fixed sales prices on similar products, do you?  Well, they don't, and they are the ones sizing up customers, not us.

Regarding Amazon, we wanted to provide an alternate way to buy our products (not just on our site).  It's just that simple.  Nobody has complained about this before, and yes, I know it's a little unusual, but then again, we are unusually flexible.  Notice the prices are the same as on our site.  The refurb version is only on Amazon.  We sell special units to our subscribers like a unit we had with servos removed (AC coupled inputs) because a customer changed their mind and bought one with servos after we did the mod.  Some of the subscriber deals are below cost!

So, we have varying stock of varying age.  I think it's quite reasonable, and in fact welcomed, to have a variety of units available to suit different budgets.  By the way, does Audiogon sell much these days???

Pardon me for being defensive about this issue.  We are doing our best to give customers options.

Thanks for your post.

AmpDesigner333
www.DigitalAmp.com
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mfsoa on 15 Aug 2008, 07:04 pm
My bad - S. Whitehall (if that really is your true location   brewhaaa)
is only 45 min from my house.

-Mike
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mcullinan on 15 Aug 2008, 07:17 pm
My bad - S. Whitehall (if that really is your true location   brewhaaa)
is only 45 min from my house.

-Mike
Yeah that sounds like a good opportunity for some people to make opinions, filtering said power of word of mouth to the throngs of said AC folk thereby contributing the true nature of said Class D amps, there in fact acceleroeating purchases. <<--- I made that word up myself Yeah!!!! Im smott Im smott.
Mike
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 15 Aug 2008, 07:18 pm
My bad - S. Whitehall (if that really is your true location   brewhaaa)
is only 45 min from my house.

-Mike

Send me a private message and we can arrange to meet!  What kind of speakers do you have?  No problem bringing an amp, but not speakers, plus I'm not afraid of ANY speakers with my amps!!!  Do you have a preamp with balanced outs (XLRs)?

I don't use exact names/addresses on the Internet.

Thanks for your post.  Have a great weekend.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: TomS on 15 Aug 2008, 07:23 pm
I'd say lash 'em up to someone's SP Tech's at a Rave and ride 'em hard  :thumb: 

Low distortion should be very (non)evident there, as in easy to hear or not.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mfsoa on 16 Aug 2008, 12:01 am
Mr. 333,

PM and invitation sent!


-Mike
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: ecramer on 16 Aug 2008, 05:17 am
My bad - S. Whitehall (if that really is your true location   brewhaaa)
is only 45 min from my house.

-Mike

He's right between us if whitehall is the place. Close to my favorite steak house Gregory's
ED
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 16 Aug 2008, 03:40 pm
Mr. 333,

PM and invitation sent!


-Mike

Got it.  I'll reply to that ASAP.  Thanks, and have a great weekend!
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: bruno putzeys on 16 Aug 2008, 10:51 pm
Tommy pointed me to this thread and asked for comments. I'm not familiar with the particulars of his design, but I wanted to comment on the point about sound vs specs. It's true that there are quite a few amps that really sound nice (not necessarily accurate but certainly nice) in spite of less than stellar numbers. However, "nice sound" aside, what I can say with absolute certainty is that I've never heard a truly accurate and neutral amp that didn't have the numbers to match.

The "good-numbers bad-sound amp" is a myth that's been with us since the 80's when some class AB amps (typically Japanese with lots of lights on a black anodized front) were marketed with spectacular numbers - or so one was led to believe. Invariably it turned out that either the promised performance was only attained at 1kHz/1W or not at all. Nowadays we would describe this as "making misleading claims". When properly tested these amplifiers performed abysmally and indeed sounded the part. Those few amps that truly delivered on their promised performance still sound good by today's standards.
Simply put, the widely held belief that performance and sound are completely disjoint is a result of irresponsible salesmanship, no more no less. The relationship between numbers and sound may not be 1:1, the correlation is much stronger than is generally accepted.

We're seeing something of a rerun of this story in class D. Like Tommy I'm often confronted by people tut-tutting (invariably before trying out my stuff, never afterwards) based on previous experiences with other products. Indeed, many class D amps haven't exactly blazed a trail for the technology. But here too, those products that disappoint in the listening room do likewise on the lab bench. Again the 1kHz/1W figure may look good for many amps but it's the high power / high frequency numbers that show what an amp is made of. Output impedance at 20kHz is another neglected item. Everyone can get super duper "damping factor" at 50Hz. So what? Can they do it at the other end of the spectrum too? So what I want to say is: if you've heard a class D amp with good specs on all counts and you're still not happy - I won't argue. But if you haven't: do take the time to try one out that does measure well. Although I haven't heard or measured Tommy's amps yet, the published numbers (graphs would be appreciated!) make them worthy of anyone's attention.

BTW, I'm aware that there are also some who seem to think that class D is inherently better sounding than other technologies. I'm not one of them. I don't believe class D is either inherently superior or inferior to other technologies. The advantages of class D are all of a practical nature. Good sound can be had from any technology (not always equally easily though), the only thing you definitely can't get from other kinds of amplifiers is a lot of power with hardly any wasted energy. I know several audiophiles consciously moving towards class D simply for environmental reasons, but of course they expect their new amp to sound at least as good as the one it's replacing. This is what good class D is about, not about some "novel magic sound experience" because that's bull. If it sounds that radically different from a really good traditional amp, there's something wrong. The time of making great strides in amplifier sound is over. The time of making great amps, luckily, is not.

While I'm at it I might share my experience about price. I've tried holding my own as a one man audio company in the past and I'm still part of a 4-man endeavour called Grimm Audio. From that experience I can tell you it's a frustrating fact of life that when you're on the wrong side of the economy of scale, making stuff really gets expensive. In the beginning one is often tempted to charge too little but after a while you really find the numbers don't add up if you try to stay in the same ball park with bigger joints. So your prices have to go up. But with a higher price tag customers expect higher quality (rightly so!). And that makes it even more expensive etc. The only stable solution to this equation is at a quality level (sound, build, "exclusivity" etc) that only very few people demand (that's you folks) so that larger companies no longer have a scale advantage and instead are at a disadvantage due to greater overhead. That's where the equation tilts. Add the current price hike in commodities like copper, a weak USD and volatility of the market in general and you get a price increase that would otherwise seem, on the face of it, difficult to explain.

Apologies for excessive verbosity. I am like that.

Cheers,

Bruno (who's now leaving on vacation so unlikely to check back on this thread for the next week)
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 17 Aug 2008, 03:51 am
Tommy pointed me to this thread and asked for comments. I'm not familiar with the particulars of his design, but I wanted to comment on the point about sound vs specs. It's true that there are quite a few amps that really sound nice (not necessarily accurate but certainly nice) in spite of less than stellar numbers. However, "nice sound" aside, what I can say with absolute certainty is that I've never heard a truly accurate and neutral amp that didn't have the numbers to match.

The "good-numbers bad-sound amp" is a myth that's been with us since the 80's when some class AB amps (typically Japanese with lots of lights on a black anodized front) were marketed with spectacular numbers - or so one was led to believe. Invariably it turned out that either the promised performance was only attained at 1kHz/1W or not at all. Nowadays we would describe this as "making misleading claims". When properly tested these amplifiers performed abysmally and indeed sounded the part. Those few amps that truly delivered on their promised performance still sound good by today's standards.
Simply put, the widely held belief that performance and sound are completely disjoint is a result of irresponsible salesmanship, no more no less. The relationship between numbers and sound may not be 1:1, the correlation is much stronger than is generally accepted.

We're seeing something of a rerun of this story in class D. Like Tommy I'm often confronted by people tut-tutting (invariably before trying out my stuff, never afterwards) based on previous experiences with other products. Indeed, many class D amps haven't exactly blazed a trail for the technology. But here too, those products that disappoint in the listening room do likewise on the lab bench. Again the 1kHz/1W figure may look good for many amps but it's the high power / high frequency numbers that show what an amp is made of. Output impedance at 20kHz is another neglected item. Everyone can get super duper "damping factor" at 50Hz. So what? Can they do it at the other end of the spectrum too? So what I want to say is: if you've heard a class D amp with good specs on all counts and you're still not happy - I won't argue. But if you haven't: do take the time to try one out that does measure well. Although I haven't heard or measured Tommy's amps yet, the published numbers (graphs would be appreciated!) make them worthy of anyone's attention.

BTW, I'm aware that there are also some who seem to think that class D is inherently better sounding than other technologies. I'm not one of them. I don't believe class D is either inherently superior or inferior to other technologies. The advantages of class D are all of a practical nature. Good sound can be had from any technology (not always equally easily though), the only thing you definitely can't get from other kinds of amplifiers is a lot of power with hardly any wasted energy. I know several audiophiles consciously moving towards class D simply for environmental reasons, but of course they expect their new amp to sound at least as good as the one it's replacing. This is what good class D is about, not about some "novel magic sound experience" because that's bull. If it sounds that radically different from a really good traditional amp, there's something wrong. The time of making great strides in amplifier sound is over. The time of making great amps, luckily, is not.

While I'm at it I might share my experience about price. I've tried holding my own as a one man audio company in the past and I'm still part of a 4-man endeavour called Grimm Audio. From that experience I can tell you it's a frustrating fact of life that when you're on the wrong side of the economy of scale, making stuff really gets expensive. In the beginning one is often tempted to charge too little but after a while you really find the numbers don't add up if you try to stay in the same ball park with bigger joints. So your prices have to go up. But with a higher price tag customers expect higher quality (rightly so!). And that makes it even more expensive etc. The only stable solution to this equation is at a quality level (sound, build, "exclusivity" etc) that only very few people demand (that's you folks) so that larger companies no longer have a scale advantage and instead are at a disadvantage due to greater overhead. That's where the equation tilts. Add the current price hike in commodities like copper, a weak USD and volatility of the market in general and you get a price increase that would otherwise seem, on the face of it, difficult to explain.

Apologies for excessive verbosity. I am like that.

Cheers,

Bruno (who's now leaving on vacation so unlikely to check back on this thread for the next week)

Thanks, Bruno, for your post.  I also replied to your regular email.  Interesting thought on specs versus sound.  Hope that gets some replies.  Regarding output impedance at 20KHz, I have found that improving this spec in any amp design involves making other sacrifices and the net effect on the sound can be (doesn't have to be) discouraging.  One thing is for sure...  If you have a really good open loop amp to begin with, the reliance on feedback is lessened and the amp can be better overall.  With Class-D amps that use the output filter to modulate, there is technically no open loop to test!  Interesting issue, and I wonder how one deals with this other than simply going for the throat with the output stage design and testing only closed loop.  Of course, if there are multiple loops, you can work from the inside out...  Have a good vacation, and thanks again.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: cab on 17 Aug 2008, 04:04 am
Do you have any graphs of your amp's performance? THD vs freq, THD vs output power, etc?
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 17 Aug 2008, 04:16 am
Do you have any graphs of your amp's performance? THD vs freq, THD vs output power, etc?

Yes...

Cherry Specs:
http://www.digitalamp.com/cherry%20measurements%20v6.pdf

DAC4800A Specs:
http://www.digitalamp.com/DAC4800A%20standard%20measurements%20v3.pdf

Product page for Cherry (list form specifications):
http://www.digitalamp.com/Cherry_amp2.htm

Product page for DAC4800A (list form specifications):
http://www.digitalamp.com/4800a_amp1.htm

Thanks for your post.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 17 Aug 2008, 07:20 am
Does anyone out there have any impressions of Stereo Times in general?  Just curious.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: JEaton on 17 Aug 2008, 07:33 am
I'm the founder of Digital Amplifier Company (1996).  On our web site, we explain that we don't go to trade shows or pay for standard print or web advertising.  Do you have any thoughts on this?

See below.   Maybe a little bit of marketing would be in order.  Posting to forums like this one might look like marketing, but will also be seen as a little amateurish by many.

Quote
Please let us know if you have heard one of our amps or if you have visited our web site (www.DigitalAmp.com).

Never heard them and have never heard of the company.

How did you come up with a name for an amplifier company with the unfortunate acronym of "DAC"?
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: bruno putzeys on 17 Aug 2008, 08:45 am
I have found that improving this spec in any amp design involves making other sacrifices(...)
In the past I used to believe that achieving good modulator linearity along with global feedback was impossible. I've had to change my mind because I figured a way how to do it. Two ways actually. Works like a charm, at least if one considers four densely printed pages of formulae "a charm".
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: denjo on 17 Aug 2008, 10:59 am

How did you come up with a name for an amplifier company with the unfortunate acronym of "DAC"?

Yes, that was exactly my point a few threads up!

Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: arthurs on 17 Aug 2008, 02:25 pm
Interesting looking products AmpDesigner333...

Please adjust your signature to meet the guidelines put forward for industry participants here  http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=41871.0

Thanks in advance and have a great rest of your weekend!
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 17 Aug 2008, 03:15 pm
Interesting looking products AmpDesigner333...

Please adjust your signature to meet the guidelines put forward for industry participants here  http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=41871.0

Thanks in advance and have a great rest of your weekend!

Just testing it.  OK now?  Thanks for your post.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: art on 17 Aug 2008, 05:23 pm
Looks like the hobbyists have discovered you. Nothing that you can do about that, but you may live to regret it.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1587004#post1587004 (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1587004#post1587004)

Best wishes!

Pat
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 17 Aug 2008, 07:54 pm
Looks like the hobbyists have discovered you. Nothing that you can do about that, but you may live to regret it.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1587004#post1587004 (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1587004#post1587004)

Best wishes!

Pat

Pat,
Thanks for pointing that out!  Good find.  All I have to say for now is "ouch"!  We made attempts years ago in DIY, but we found it just wasn't a good fit for us.  Thanks again for your post.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: arthurs on 17 Aug 2008, 11:45 pm
Interesting looking products AmpDesigner333...

Please adjust your signature to meet the guidelines put forward for industry participants here  http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=41871.0

Thanks in advance and have a great rest of your weekend!

Just testing it.  OK now?  Thanks for your post.


Perfecto, thanks much!
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 18 Aug 2008, 06:16 am
Looks like the hobbyists have discovered you. Nothing that you can do about that, but you may live to regret it.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1587004#post1587004 (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1587004#post1587004)

Best wishes!

Pat

Has this happened to you?  I checked out www.analogresearch-technology.net, and it looks like you doing some pretty similar stuff.  Do you use someone's modules or did you develop your own amp technology?  Nice looking product!
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: THE_ANSWERS on 18 Aug 2008, 02:34 pm
hello

you seem like a guy who knows what he is talking about and seem to be very much a part of this crazy hobby.  if i were you and don't take this the wrong way but i would re-think your price structure. if your and early bird and you can find it on amazon referb and stuff like this people here are not going to take you seriously.  come up with a price that works for you and stick with it.  any other way makes it seem like your not sure of yourself.



I agree . what is the   r e a l   price?  do you get sized up ?  my buddy told me his was 1500 but why is it 3600 on the web site and 2700 (?) on amazon and what the hell is it doing on amazon .  nobody buys serious gear there!!!!!!     why not audiogon



still the product is good like I said before.    just being devils advocate  :)


didn't answer me about audiogon.......  not really
    sorry about the price comment    ya gotta do wht ya gottado
c'ya
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: THE_ANSWERS on 18 Aug 2008, 03:16 pm
Because i've listened to quite a few and despite all the hype that went with them,was quite disappointing,thats all.

really did like the dac amp though and payed attention since it was no-name brand and a friend happen to have it  also really big speakers can really bottom out tubes .

i know what you mean by dissapointed when I heard a old class d amp (ps-audio?) .   this was something like 10 years ago so one of the first(?).     at the time, I liked tubes and heard conrad-johnson and michaelson&austin and dynaco (really old????)  and was very impressed with stuff that lit up (duh ) didnt know much butwas realy more interested in speakers than anything,home brew ones that is!!!!  tubes just look real  *kewl*

speaking of tubes ,, ever hear of these guys?   http://www.virginiatubeaudio.com/

Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: art on 18 Aug 2008, 04:55 pm
Looks like the hobbyists have discovered you. Nothing that you can do about that, but you may live to regret it.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1587004#post1587004 (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1587004#post1587004)

Best wishes!

Pat
Has this happened to you? 

No, but there are some folks there that spread false information. Not intentionally; they just think that they know more than they really do. Most are harmless, just annoying.

Audiogon............I rarely go there any longer. The mods have a way of clipping my posts, in reply to the same sort of person alluded to above. Why they let the inmates say anything that has no foundation in fact, or so severely taken out of context that is in no longer true, is beyond me. More puzzling when they don't let you set the record straight. But, things may have improved there. Not curious enough to try again.

(Not sure the forum rules allow such disclosure. If not, I will edit it out.)

Pat
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 18 Aug 2008, 09:28 pm
hello

you seem like a guy who knows what he is talking about and seem to be very much a part of this crazy hobby.  if i were you and don't take this the wrong way but i would re-think your price structure. if your and early bird and you can find it on amazon referb and stuff like this people here are not going to take you seriously.  come up with a price that works for you and stick with it.  any other way makes it seem like your not sure of yourself.



I agree . what is the   r e a l   price?  do you get sized up ?  my buddy told me his was 1500 but why is it 3600 on the web site and 2700 (?) on amazon and what the hell is it doing on amazon .  nobody buys serious gear there!!!!!!     why not audiogon



still the product is good like I said before.    just being devils advocate  :)


didn't answer me about audiogon.......  not really
    sorry about the price comment    ya gotta do wht ya gottado
c'ya


No big deal.  Sorry about the "idiot" comment on the Red Wine thread (oops).  Once again, please get your friend with the DAC4800A to post here.  It is Bill, right (don't want to use his last name)?  If so, he bought one of the first ones ever made!!!  We have improved the design since then.

About Audiogon, we're looking into it.  I was trying to get feedback on them (no pun intended).  Have you ever bought anything from them?  How about Ebay (audio stuff only)?

About price, we are getting squeezed by rising costs and a shrinking market (at least in the USA for now).  However, we still are doing well, and luckily bought a lot of components when prices were lower.  Since you have heard one and said you liked it, why not buy one?  We have a 30-day return policy (ask me privately about it if you are interested).  Pardon the sales pitch.  Let me know, and thanks for posting to this thread.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: cryoparts on 18 Aug 2008, 09:32 pm
About Audiogon, we're looking into it.  I was trying to get feedback on them (no pun intended).  Have you ever bought anything from them?  How about Ebay (audio stuff only)?

I know that is is in fashion to bash AudioGon, but I have used them for at least 10 years and have been very happy with their service the whole time.  Plus, they have the draw.  More people visit A'gon than any other Hi-Fi site, I bet.

Don't forget:

http://www.hifihock.com (http://www.hifihock.com)
http://www.audiosxell.com (http://www.audiosxell.com)

Both Dragan (HiFiHock) and Tom (AudioXsell) are good guys and occasionally post here.

Peace,

Lee
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 18 Aug 2008, 09:34 pm
Looks like the hobbyists have discovered you. Nothing that you can do about that, but you may live to regret it.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1587004#post1587004 (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1587004#post1587004)

Best wishes!

Pat
Has this happened to you? 

No, but there are some folks there that spread false information. Not intentionally; they just think that they know more than they really do. Most are harmless, just annoying.

Audiogon............I rarely go there any longer. The mods have a way of clipping my posts, in reply to the same sort of person alluded to above. Why they let the inmates say anything that has no foundation in fact, or so severely taken out of context that is in no longer true, is beyond me. More puzzling when they don't let you set the record straight. But, things may have improved there. Not curious enough to try again.

(Not sure the forum rules allow such disclosure. If not, I will edit it out.)

Pat

Thanks for the info about Audiogon.  We're thinking of trying it out, but I wonder if Ebay is better.

Audiogon is cheaper if it's a "standard" listing.  A fancy listing on Ebay can be more than $40 USD!!!

I was also thinking of trying to sell on Audio Circle.  Any thoughts on that?  Anyway, I hope this thread will get some technical related replies posted soon.  Too much marketing/sales for me in one day...  Thanks again.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: pbrstreetgang on 18 Aug 2008, 09:37 pm
It would be good to attend a rave or get an amp into the hands of some of the trusted members here for a listen. If its good, Im sure there will be interest
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 18 Aug 2008, 09:38 pm
About Audiogon, we're looking into it.  I was trying to get feedback on them (no pun intended).  Have you ever bought anything from them?  How about Ebay (audio stuff only)?

Don't forget:

http://www.hifihock.com (http://www.hifihock.com)
http://www.audiosxell.com (http://www.audiosxell.com)

Both Dragan (HiFiHock) and Tom (AudioXsell) are good guys and occasionally post here.

peace,

Lee

Lee,

Thanks for the post.  I'll check them out.  We have to be selective due to limited stock.  We typically build, sell, build, sell, like that...  It takes quite a few hours to build and test each unit by hand.  That's what we're all about.  This isn't stuff produced by the thosands of units in some South East Asian sweat shop...
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: cryoparts on 18 Aug 2008, 09:43 pm
I understand.  I don't think any one of the internet sites will get you so much business that you will be back-logged more than a few weeks.  You need to "spread the love around" a bit to build your brand, as you are not very well known.   

You might think also think about a banner on Tone Audio.  Talk with Jeff and he can recommend the best placement.  He is fantastic to work with.

Peace,

Lee

About Audiogon, we're looking into it.  I was trying to get feedback on them (no pun intended).  Have you ever bought anything from them?  How about Ebay (audio stuff only)?

Don't forget:

http://www.hifihock.com (http://www.hifihock.com)
http://www.audiosxell.com (http://www.audiosxell.com)

Both Dragan (HiFiHock) and Tom (AudioXsell) are good guys and occasionally post here.

peace,

Lee

Lee,

Thanks for the post.  I'll check them out.  We have to be selective due to limited stock.  We typically build, sell, build, sell, like that...  It takes quite a few hours to build and test each unit by hand.  That's what we're all about.  This isn't stuff produced by the thosands of units in some South East Asian sweat shop...

Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 18 Aug 2008, 09:46 pm
It would be good to attend a rave or get an amp into the hands of some of the trusted members here for a listen. If its good, Im sure there will be interest

Maybe if I offer a unit or two for Audio Circle members only...  There are a lot of tire kickers and people who request free amps, but we're not pouring over with cash since we re-invest into hardware, bootstrap style.  I'm sure the Brystons and Krells out there can afford to send out sample product, but we can't.  Thanks for your post.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: pbrstreetgang on 19 Aug 2008, 12:56 am
Everyone understand that. The thing is to get a unbiased review from as many people as possible and establish some credibility for offering a good product. The only thing you lose in the end is the difference in profit between selling the unit new or as a demo. Turn this around and ask yourself what you are asking of us. You are asking us to plop down $6,000.00 on a possibly fine product but with no safety net of brand name, performance, credibility, or resale value. Other companies have went through these steps and established a good reputation and proven their offerings worth, many in fact started right were you are. Im not calling into question or knocking your product but the noble line your portraying is you dont spend a dime on advertising or showing your product and seemingly concerned about the minimal amount you would be out for sending it to responsible members that have invested a lot of money in multiple high end systems with obvious dedication to this hobby. It plays a major role in a lot of peoples lives here and many take it very seriously. If its a great deal people would have no problem with the asking price.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mcullinan on 19 Aug 2008, 02:27 am
Thats true, the resale value would be zero. Who is going to buy something that they never heard of without a reputation? No one. Most of the products on AC have been proven in the field and they are highly reguarded in their field of expertise. They are small manufacturers (most) but you could turn around something based on word of mouth.
Mike
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: kbuzz3 on 19 Aug 2008, 02:39 am
why dont you send an amp to an AC member to then send around to others. I believe other companies have tried this "product tour" approach. 
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mcullinan on 19 Aug 2008, 03:01 am
I know you are planning to have them at Mikes Rave in October... That will be a good time to listen.
Mike
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 19 Aug 2008, 03:11 am
Thats true, the resale value would be zero. Who is going to buy something that they never heard of without a reputation? No one. Most of the products on AC have been proven in the field and they are highly reguarded in their field of expertise. They are small manufacturers (most) but you could turn around something based on word of mouth.
Mike

I disagree.  You would have no problem selling our amps on an auction site like Ebay or Audiogon.  We do have a reputation (from actual customers), although it is not confirmed yet by thousands of users, but then again this was the same case for companies like Krell when they got their start!  We believe in our products and do our best to provide the ultimate in amps.  Thanks for your post.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: lonewolfny42 on 19 Aug 2008, 03:15 am
AmpDesigner333 ....
Quote
We do have a reputation (from actual customers), although it is not confirmed yet by thousands of users, but then again this was the same case for companies like Krell when they got their start!

So....a question...about how many of your amps have you sold ? Thanks... :thumb:
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 19 Aug 2008, 03:18 am
why dont you send an amp to an AC member to then send around to others. I believe other companies have tried this "product tour" approach. 

We are taking our time with this.  When presented with the option of selling a unit to a trusting new customer or giving one away for a "potential review" we choose the customer.  We owe everything to our customers and never forget that.  Subscribe to our newsletter if you are interested in special deals:
http://www.digitalamp.com/news.htm

We are considering a special for AC participants.  If you are interested, please send a PM.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 19 Aug 2008, 03:22 am
AmpDesigner333 ....
Quote
We do have a reputation (from actual customers), although it is not confirmed yet by thousands of users, but then again this was the same case for companies like Krell when they got their start!

So....a question...about how many of your amps have you sold ? Thanks... :thumb:

Wow!  I was wondering when someone would finally ask this!  We hold that information private, but let me say that it is significant.  The Cherry is pretty new, but the DAC4800A has been selling for quite some time (more than a year).  We are building them as fast as we can.  Thanks for your post.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: lonewolfny42 on 19 Aug 2008, 03:28 am
AmpDesigner333 ....
Quote
We do have a reputation (from actual customers), although it is not confirmed yet by thousands of users, but then again this was the same case for companies like Krell when they got their start!

So....a question...about how many of your amps have you sold ? Thanks... :thumb:

Wow!  I was wondering when someone would finally ask this!  We hold that information private, but let me say that it is significant.  The Cherry is pretty new, but the DAC4800A has been selling for quite some time (more than a year).  We are building them as fast as we can.  Thanks for your post.

The only reason I asked is because I read a lot of sites....and your company has not been mentioned around in discussions....except now on AC.

Attending a Rave...or a product tour here on AC would get you some reviews...so people might have an idea how your product performs.

Good luck.... :beer:
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: IronLion on 19 Aug 2008, 03:39 am
why dont you send an amp to an AC member to then send around to others. I believe other companies have tried this "product tour" approach. 

We are taking our time with this.  When presented with the option of selling a unit to a trusting new customer or giving one away for a "potential review" we choose the customer.  We owe everything to our customers and never forget that.  Subscribe to our newsletter if you are interested in special deals:
http://www.digitalamp.com/news.htm

We are considering a special for AC participants.  If you are interested, please send a PM.

Thanks.

My best guess would be that you wouldn't receive any orders from other AC members (special prices and all) unless you sent an amp around for people to hear and post their impressions.  As others have mentioned, a lack of any user opinions or professional reviews would make anyone wary of putting down hard earned money when there are so many alternatives in this hobby (for both more and less money) from more established companies.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: pbrstreetgang on 19 Aug 2008, 04:03 am
Quote
When presented with the option of selling a unit to a trusting new customer or giving one away for a "potential review" we choose the customer.

Well yea. lonewolf is right, we all read a lot of forums and hardly a blurb. Even audioreview that  is so easy to seed comes up nill. I was a bit concerned about the "thousands" of user comments earlier in light of the lack of user reviews. I do wish you well and obviously I keep an eye on this intriguing product and thread but honestly it would be very hard to pull the trigger.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 19 Aug 2008, 04:16 am
Quote
When presented with the option of selling a unit to a trusting new customer or giving one away for a "potential review" we choose the customer.

Well yea. lonewolf is right, we all read a lot of forums and hardly a blurb. Even audioreview that  is so easy to seed comes up nill. I was a bit concerned about the "thousands" of user comments earlier in light of the lack of user reviews. I do wish you well and obviously I keep an eye on this intriguing product and thread but honestly it would be very hard to pull the trigger.

There are customer reviews here (needs an update which should come soon):
http://www.digitalamp.com/DAC_REVIEWS.htm

And on Amazon (link is a shortcut, all 5 stars):
http://www.TrueDigitalAmp.com/

We are working to get as many customers to write reviews as possible.  People are busy, so this isn't always easy.  Read earlier posts in this thread for an explanation of why there aren't "professional reviews" yet.  Thanks for your post.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 20 Aug 2008, 06:05 am
FYI, less than a day left on the DAC4800A special (Ebay)...

Here's the link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=120294034573&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=002

Good luck, and thanks for all the great posts!  More later...
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: THE_ANSWERS on 20 Aug 2008, 01:36 pm
FYI, less than a day left on the DAC4800A special (Ebay)...

Here's the link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=120294034573&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=002

Good luck, and thanks for all the great posts!  More later...


and if it doesn't sell?   like i said,   could audiogon have been better choice ?
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mfsoa on 20 Aug 2008, 01:51 pm
Quote
Attending a Rave...or a product tour here on AC would get you some reviews...so people might have an idea how your product performs.

I have invited him to the October Rave at my place. Guess what?- He's a drummer too.

-Mike
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: jman66 on 20 Aug 2008, 01:51 pm
FYI, less than a day left on the DAC4800A special (Ebay)...

Here's the link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=120294034573&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=002

Good luck, and thanks for all the great posts!  More later...


...and you're serious about $90 for shipping ?
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mcullinan on 20 Aug 2008, 01:56 pm
Mike,
Are you going to have a drum off??
That sounds sick to me, but everything does.
Mike
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 20 Aug 2008, 06:06 pm
FYI, less than a day left on the DAC4800A special (Ebay)...

Here's the link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=120294034573&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=002

Good luck, and thanks for all the great posts!  More later...


...and you're serious about $90 for shipping ?

Willing to ship FREE to AC members in continental USA!
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: IronLion on 20 Aug 2008, 08:28 pm
Most importantly for me when doing business with any company, do you have a trial period or return policy?  You don't seem to have one as far as I can tell from your auction or website.   
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 20 Aug 2008, 10:07 pm
FYI, less than a day left on the DAC4800A special (Ebay)...

Here's the link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=120294034573&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=002

Good luck, and thanks for all the great posts!  More later...


and if it doesn't sell?   like i said,   could audiogon have been better choice ?


FYI, there is now a CHERRY amp on Audiogon, starting bid is $2999.  We'll see...  Thanks for your post.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: 2bigears on 20 Aug 2008, 10:10 pm
  :D need a 30 day return....this is S.O.P. these days.... :D
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 20 Aug 2008, 10:11 pm
Most importantly for me when doing business with any company, do you have a trial period or return policy?  You don't seem to have one as far as I can tell from your auction or website.   

30-day policy (see http://www.digitalamp.com/Cherry_amp2.htm where it's mentioned).  Amp must not be damaged and shipping must be insured for full value.  Return shipping paid by customer.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: IronLion on 20 Aug 2008, 10:13 pm
Are there any terms to the 30 day return policy?  Any re-stocking fees or fees of any kind associated, or is it a %100 money back return policy?
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 21 Aug 2008, 12:04 am
Are there any terms to the 30 day return policy?  Any re-stocking fees or fees of any kind associated, or is it a %100 money back return policy?

100% money back if the following is satisfied:
   You pay full-value (purchase price) insured shipping
   The unit must be undamaged and unopened
   All cables and accessories must be included (we ship new units with a heavy duty power cord and two RCA-to-XLR adapters)
   The unit must arrive no more than 30 days after the date it was shipped to you from DAC
   The unit must have been purchased NEW (not a demo or refurb)

We have a 10 day policy for refurbs.  Demos are guaranteed on a case-by-case basis, depending on condition and age.

Thanks for your post.
Title: time's almost up on the DAC4800A (Ebay)
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 21 Aug 2008, 12:22 am
Link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=120294034573&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=002

The price will go up after that.

About half an hour left...

Shipping cost will be refunded to AC members!

Also, if you have any comments on the Audiogon (Cherry) listing, please post them to this thread.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 21 Aug 2008, 12:24 am
FYI, less than a day left on the DAC4800A special (Ebay)...

Here's the link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=120294034573&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=002

Good luck, and thanks for all the great posts!  More later...


...and you're serious about $90 for shipping ?
...see my previous post...
Title: Re: time's almost up on the DAC4800A (Ebay)
Post by: THE_ANSWERS on 21 Aug 2008, 12:31 am
Link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=120294034573&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=002

The price will go up after that.

About half an hour left...

Shipping cost will be refunded to AC members!

Also, if you have any comments on the Audiogon (Cherry) listing, please post them to this thread.

Thanks.


like i said, ebay is probably a bad place for your product .  noboy knows what the hell an amp is there   but you can sell your baseball cards!!!!!!
i will take a look at the audiogon entry
good luck
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: THE_ANSWERS on 21 Aug 2008, 12:34 am
just left a private message for you
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 21 Aug 2008, 12:42 am
just left a private message for you

I did NOT receive a PM from you.  Are you sure you sent it correctly?  Please try again, and thanks for your post.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 21 Aug 2008, 02:02 am
The NEW DAC4800A on Ebay was relisted; now with free shipping and 30-day return policy...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120296830990
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: THE_ANSWERS on 21 Aug 2008, 01:56 pm
The NEW DAC4800A on Ebay was relisted; now with free shipping and 30-day return policy...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120296830990


told you so !!!!!!!!

i found this on audiogon:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/frr.pl?ramps&1216594678&read&3&4&

the listing is nice    but no mention of the review above    w h y    n o t ????  its even on the same web site

Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: THE_ANSWERS on 21 Aug 2008, 02:25 pm
just left a private message for you

I did NOT receive a PM from you.  Are you sure you sent it correctly?  Please try again, and thanks for your post.

just sent one, pls check
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: THE_ANSWERS on 21 Aug 2008, 06:32 pm
amp designer,
look at this !
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=58753.msg521778;topicseen#new
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: THE_ANSWERS on 21 Aug 2008, 06:45 pm
.......and this one
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=58144.60
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 22 Aug 2008, 01:21 am
just left a private message for you

I did NOT receive a PM from you.  Are you sure you sent it correctly?  Please try again, and thanks for your post.

just sent one, pls check

Got it.  Thanks for the posts and links, too.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 22 Aug 2008, 05:57 am
The NEW DAC4800A on Ebay was relisted; now with free shipping and 30-day return policy...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120296830990


told you so !!!!!!!!

i found this on audiogon:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/frr.pl?ramps&1216594678&read&3&4&

the listing is nice    but no mention of the review above    w h y    n o t ????  its even on the same web site



Here is the text from that review on Audiogon:
Distortion in music reproduction bothers me. It takes away from my enjoyment. A clean precise reproduction of a note or word from whence it came excites me. The "Cherry Amp" from Digital Amplifier Company excites me. This is a piece of equiptment that when added to my system it made me want to listen to my entire music collection all over again. It is like switching from a cone to an electrostat or a first generation cd player to a high end Sacd player.
Power in my system had been coming from a pair of Cary slam 100 monoblocks and a DAC 4800a ($3600 from digital amp). After listening to a pair of Apogee Caliper Signatures I felt I needed more to open them up. In comes the "Cherry" amp. While waiting I listened to my tube amps exclusively to give myself a solid reference point.
Right out of the box it is impressive. The front panel is Cherry red and minimalist in its design. It is heavy for its size, very solid, no wasted air inside this chassis. Set up is easy.
I love a female voice. First up "Spanish Harlem" sung by Rebecca Pigeon. The disc is "The worlds Greatest Audiophile Vocal Recordings" prodused by Chesky records. A solo bass starts out, each note is defined and clear. Rebeccas voice chimes in, she is there full bodied with plenty of depth. Percussion followed by strings and then piano. Every note is distinct with good placement on the stage. A wonderful recording and this amp laid it out beautifully.
Piano is very difficult to reproduce. The keys, the way they are touched and the after sound can be captured. This is where some ss amps have accuracy but lose the felling. Each note feels hollow. I start with Red Rose recordings of "In a sentimental mood" and " Misty". Then on to George Winstons "Autumn" and finally The Grande Piano Concert by Rick Wakeman. Each artist uses a different piano. The clarity and warmth of each can be distinguished. When a finger slowly touches and releases a key it is there. This I have missed in my tube amps. Even though they sound warm and full they sometimes do not bring out a soft hidden sound. The Cherry did. Tract 4 on Red Rose "Recitative in Scherzo for solo Violin" sounds so different. The violin has fullness and not a hint of screech.
So far the recordings are not complicated. They point to the accuracy of reproduction that an amp needs to perform. I have been playing the volume at low to moderate. Now on to some more complicated pasages.
Tract 2 from Ottmar Liebert + Luna Negra's disc "Viva" is entitled Buddhas Flower. It has a very deep soundstage. In the background are "peepers". My solid states and tubes have all faired well with this passage. But with the Cherry the peepers are very clear. They do not overwhelm any part of the music but they are distinct in each peep and stand out more. Very nice. Stravinsky's "Firebird Suite", Tchaikovsky's "1812 overture" and "Fanfare for the Common Man" are demanding pieces. The first two have passages that requirre an amp to put out power immediately and go back to quiet then more power. Different instruments jump in and out. Quite a workout for the Conductor as well. Fanfare has some very low rolling percussions that if not delivered with clean power will buckle a speaker. I had experienced this with both sets of speakers. But not when they were being powered by the Cherry. Even Dagda "Druids in the Glen" is phenominal.
Throughout the listening I have been using the Apogee Caliper Signatures. The room is 22 x 24. They are 3 ft from the back wall and 2 ft from the side wall. At high volumes I detected no stain on the amp or deterioration in the sound. This cannot be said for the other amps. They either heated up and could not power the Calipers for long periods or they introduced distotion and did not open up the speakers.
Next I switched the speakers to my Quad 22L2's. These are a two and a half box speaker. They have a rear port and are therefor placed 18 inches away from the back wall. The one problem I have had is in the low end. It has been boomy. Low notes are muddled. I attributed it to the room acoustics. I just have not been able to get their placement right. I ran the previous selections through and was amazed at what I heard. The Cherry amp opened up the quads. Obviously the amp has more power than they can handle but the speakers blossomed. The low end was deep and clear. I even threw in some Pink Floyd "Dark Side of the Moon". The high was not tinny but crisp. Prior to the Cherry I thought of these Quads as a good box speaker but still a box. Now they have an airy quality up high and a firmness down low. There sound stage is wider. I enjoy listening to them. Something I could not say when they were hooked up to my other amps.
This is my first amp costing over $5000. It is worth it. I am delighted with the improvement in my system. My Apogees and Quads have been opened up. The clarity of the Apogees at high volumes is impressive with the Cherry amp. At low volumes depth and fullness is present. The sound stage is wide and deep and each instrument has its place. The Cherry Amp from Digital Amp Company has increased my enjoyment of music and my other equipment. I highly reccommend this amp.

Associated gear
   Source-Shanling T200a Sacd
   Preamp- Bel Canto pre3
   Speakers- Apogee Caliper Signature
   Quad 22L2

Similar products
   Conrad Johnson cav50
   DAC 4800A
   Cary Slam 100s
   Manley Stingray
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 22 Aug 2008, 06:05 am
The NEW DAC4800A on Ebay was relisted; now with free shipping and 30-day return policy...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120296830990


told you so !!!!!!!!

i found this on audiogon:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/frr.pl?ramps&1216594678&read&3&4&

the listing is nice    but no mention of the review above    w h y    n o t ????  its even on the same web site



I added a link this this review in the listing.  Thanks again.
Title: AUDIOGON HAS CHERRY L.T. HALF PRICE --- TIME RUNNING OUT
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 22 Aug 2008, 07:35 pm
Check this link:
http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/auc.pl?ampstran&1219539808

Digital Amplifier Company page for this fine amp:
http://www.digitalamp.com/Cherry_amp2.htm

Also, the Cherry amp is on Google Base and Amazon (www.TrueDigitalAmp.com).  Similar to the DAC4800A amp, also on www.DigitalAmp.com.  There is a review on www.audioreview.com for the DAC4800A, but the manufacurer is listed as unknown because they don't have a way to add new manufacturers!!!  Also, there is a great review about the Cherry amp on Audiogon (see the listing for the address).

Anyway, check it out ASAP!

Just over one day left on the auction!

Thanks.

Have a great weekend...
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 23 Aug 2008, 06:28 am
Plucked from the Digital Amplifier Company BLOG (http://digitalamp.blogspot.com/)...

Here we go...  First, I'm always weary of reviews from magazines.  There are hardly any bad ones in fear of "burning bridges", getting sued, or losing a potential advertising client.  No magazine in their right mind will admit to this.  In fact they will deny it tooth and nail.  Same deal for "product rewards"; many are bought and paid for indirectly.  Reviews that simply show measurements and no opinion whatsoever can usually be trusted, but are hard to find.  Measurements can't tell you everything, but can tell you a lot.  Manufacturers rarely falsify or embellish measurements due to fear of getting caught.  However, there are some tricks that can make measurements look better, such as rating power at 10% THD, but this is also very rare.  The most trustworthy source of how something sounds (beyond measurements) is actual customers.  However, people have a tendency to like whatever they bought, so watch out for reviews that have no comparisons to anything else.  Regarding well recognized brand names, don't believe that just because a brand is well known and has a long history that they only make spectacular products.  I had a WELL KNOWN (maybe the MOST well known amp brand of all) amp and was explaining my total disappointment with it to a friend.  He said something like "I can't believe you bought one, everybody knows that amp sucks.  It sounds just awful and was a complete failure for them".  He also said that despite the bad sound of this design, they sold a TON of them.  One important figure is signal to noise ratio.  Anything less than 100dB with respect to rated power should be avoided like the plague.  There's no reason in this day and age that you can't design just about any type of amplifier at least that good.  Noise is the enemy of good sound!  If there is an SNR measurement at 1W, look for at least 85dB.  This is A-weighted.  Unweighted SNR is not as meaningful of a spec since the human ear has frequency dependent sensitivity curve.  The "ear near the tweeter" test is actually quite useful if you have a single tweeter that's no more than 2" long in any direction.  Listen not only to how much noise there is but also the character of the noise.  Quality amps are dead quiet or close at idle.  Look for amps with THD+N below 0.01% for a good portion of the power curve and at all frequencies.  This is especially important at low levels, so look for THD+N well under 0.1% at 1KHz, 100mW.  Unfortunately, many manufacturers don't provide this spec, and if they do, it's probably on a graph (THD+N versus power), not in text, and sometimes you need to interpolate.  Look for amps with direct coupled output.  Output transformers are fine for distributed audio in your local supermarket sound system.  They saturate at low frequencies.  Another one...  Damping factor under 50 is a red flag.  If damping factor or output impedance (reciprocal of this divided by the load impedance is damping factor) is not mentioned, it's probably poor.  Also, as damping factor goes higher and higher it means less and less.  I doubt any human being can hear the difference between an amp with a damping factor of 300 and one with a damping factor of 450 that's otherwise the same.  Regarding the "sound" as perceived by any reviewer comparing two or more amps, if the comparisons aren't double blind, they aren't super valuable.  The mind simply can't remove bias reliably otherwise.  Single blind is much more meaningful than non-blind.  You might also be surprised how many so-called "golden ears" fail double blind listening tests (essentially can't tell the difference) when the amps are similar!  It's funny to hear the excuses when you call them on it.  This is especially amusing with aftermarket modifications.  My theory is "buy something that was designed right in the first place".  Anyway...  Regarding output power, watch out for manufacturers of anemic amplifiers that tell you their 30W amp is great for driving your 10-driver per channel tower speaker system.  You need adequate power to drive your speakers through peaks unless you never "turn it up".  Big speakers need big power to play loud and clean at the same time.  I recommend a few hundred watts minimum per channel unless you're driving a pair of bookshelf speakers in a small room.  Also watch for amps with lots of power but bad specs otherwise.  Beware of amps with a spec called "instantaneous peak power" of something similar.  This is technically twice RMS output power at rated output right before clipping.  If you see this rating and it's NOT twice rated power, there's something fishy going on.  This spec is used deceptively so beware of its use either way.  Regarding inputs, when possible, insist on balanced inputs or both unbalanced and balanced.  Balanced audio is inherently better due to built-in noise cancellation, and if you can afford a good preamp with balanced outputs, use one for your primary audio system.  Here's something I wrote regarding pro amp measurements more than 3 years ago:
http://www.livesoundint.com/archives/2004/dec/power.pdf
Yes, I worked in pro sound for several years, but learned a lot.  I know lots of high-end people think anything pro audio is junk.  They are just wrong.

Second, unless you are an amplifier design engineer, chances are you will not be able to make heads or tails of what supposedly is best in circuit design.  Good paper designs can also be implemented poorly in actual hardware.  I hope to explain more in a another post soon, going through the list in the first post.  In general, watch out for BS about amps that sound great but have poor specs.  Having great specs is no guarantee of great sound, but if you care about accuracy, amps with bad specs are usually not going to deliver accuracy.  Circuit details about the kind of rectifiers or output transformer or "special capacitors" might sound like real engineering talk, but much of the stuff I've seen like this is simply marketing and many times a bunch of crap.  Here's one: If someone told you the black chassis sounds better than the silver one is obviously full of it!

Third, some people don't have good enough ears to tell the difference between amps and will swear up and down that their new 30W amp with really high THD and noise they just bought sounds better than the 200W amp with near perfect performance that they previously owned.  An "audiophile" I used to know told me that the 48KHz bit rate internet radio he had sounded better than his CD collection!  Would you trust his opinion on amplifiers?  In my humble opinion, there are way too many lies out there about audio equipment in general.  I find this insulting to consumers.  Amplifier design is part science and part art.  Good amplifier design is much more science than art.  Great amplifier design is nearly 100% science.  Here's hoping you see right through the hype...  I wrote quite a bit, so please forgive any errors, especially spelling and grammar...
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: Rocket on 23 Aug 2008, 11:00 am
Hi,

A pretty good assessment imo.

Quote
However, people have a tendency to like whatever they bought, so watch out for reviews that have no comparisons to anything else.

I personally don't trust reviews.  Audiophile reviews are very subjective and are open to an individuals likes and dislikes.  I've bought a number of products that left me very disappointed from reviews from this site.

I remember buying a ps audio hca - 2 on the recommendation of reviews.  I think I read about 50 reviews from customers and 1 on them was negative.  Well guess what that one review was correct.

I had to spend quite a bit of money to get the amplifier to sound good.

I wish you well with your amplifier sales though.  You should try sending the amplifier around to different individuals to ascertain their opinions.  This is the best way for an audiophile to ascertain whether the product is what they want.

Regards

Rod
Title: Re: AUDIOGON HAS CHERRY L.T. HALF PRICE --- TIME RUNNING OUT
Post by: jman66 on 23 Aug 2008, 11:54 am
Check this link:
http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/auc.pl?ampstran&1219539808

Digital Amplifier Company page for this fine amp:
http://www.digitalamp.com/Cherry_amp2.htm

Also, the Cherry amp is on Google Base and Amazon (www.TrueDigitalAmp.com).  Similar to the DAC4800A amp, also on www.DigitalAmp.com.  There is a review on www.audioreview.com for the DAC4800A, but the manufacurer is listed as unknown because they don't have a way to add new manufacturers!!!  Also, there is a great review about the Cherry amp on Audiogon (see the listing for the address).

Anyway, check it out ASAP!

Just over one day left on the auction!

Thanks.

Have a great weekend...


I have a question. Why is a $6000 amp built with a pair of plastic nut binding posts? Same said for the DAC4800A?
You mention boards stuffed with premium, expensive components, yet the binding posts don't appear premium.
Thanks!
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: 2bigears on 23 Aug 2008, 12:19 pm
:D you do know you have the only red component out there,i would consider a new face plate for starters,even the name kinda sucks.maybe I'm too old,or old fashioned.too radical for me just looking at her.... :D please note i scratched this down before my first cup of Jo.no harm intended,just my early-in-the-day  comments :lol:
Title: Re: AUDIOGON HAS CHERRY L.T. HALF PRICE --- TIME RUNNING OUT
Post by: TomS on 23 Aug 2008, 01:44 pm

I have a question. Why is a $6000 amp built with a pair of plastic nut binding posts? Same said for the DAC4800A?
You mention boards stuffed with premium, expensive components, yet the binding posts don't appear premium.
Thanks!

Yeah, not that premium parts are all that big of deal sometimes in terms of just sonics.  I think of it more in terms of noise, robustness, reliability, function, and overall value in terms of living with the component over the long haul.  That's exactly why I use Cardas single knob binding posts (CPBP) in all my DIY gear.  Expensive but functionally great for my needs.  Even my Odyssey amps, at less than 1/3 the price, and known for incredibly good value, have chunky WBT's.

Still, from the post I too was curious exactly what "premium" parts we're talking about here?  People do ave very different perspectives on what might even be considered premium, particularly in the age of coupling caps that cost hundreds of dollars, $13 Vishay low power resistors, $30 fuses, and of course, sky high tube prices.
Title: Re: AUDIOGON HAS CHERRY L.T. HALF PRICE --- TIME RUNNING OUT
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 23 Aug 2008, 04:33 pm
Check this link:
http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/auc.pl?ampstran&1219539808

Digital Amplifier Company page for this fine amp:
http://www.digitalamp.com/Cherry_amp2.htm

Also, the Cherry amp is on Google Base and Amazon (www.TrueDigitalAmp.com).  Similar to the DAC4800A amp, also on www.DigitalAmp.com.  There is a review on www.audioreview.com for the DAC4800A, but the manufacurer is listed as unknown because they don't have a way to add new manufacturers!!!  Also, there is a great review about the Cherry amp on Audiogon (see the listing for the address).

Anyway, check it out ASAP!

Just over one day left on the auction!

Thanks.

Have a great weekend...


I have a question. Why is a $6000 amp built with a pair of plastic nut binding posts? Same said for the DAC4800A?
You mention boards stuffed with premium, expensive components, yet the binding posts don't appear premium.
Thanks!


Actually, they are, but you're right, they don't "look it"...  I have the same posts on a Krell.  Thanks.
Title: A WORD ABOUT TUBE AMPS
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 24 Aug 2008, 06:58 pm
Don't get me wrong!  I do like the way some tube amps sound.  The just have that smoothness about them that's very pleasing.  I like to think my amps do well in that same area without the downsides of tubes (replacing them, weight, etc.).  Many of our customers also have tube amps!
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 24 Aug 2008, 07:00 pm
:D you do know you have the only red component out there,i would consider a new face plate for starters,even the name kinda sucks.maybe I'm too old,or old fashioned.too radical for me just looking at her.... :D please note i scratched this down before my first cup of Jo.no harm intended,just my early-in-the-day  comments :lol:

We are willing to paint the face black if you want!  Thanks for your post.
Title: ANSWERS TO amplifier truths and myths
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 25 Aug 2008, 04:04 am
Below, I address the list of topics from another thread, "amplifier truths and myths":

1.   Transformers: The bigger “iron”, the better, hence massive power supplies and output transfers sound best.
True that more metal saturates less easily, but the shape of the core is also important.  This is why "pancake" toroids are harder to design.  Also, once the transformer is "big enough", making it bigger doesn't add any value other than more weight.  When transformers are loaded heavily, they put out less voltage, and the power supply rails fall.  If the amp is designed to take this well, you can minimize the size without any noticeable effect on the sound.  Toroids are preferred to E cores due to stray field issues.  For output transformers, the thickness of the windings is very important.  The bottom line is that there are so many factors at play, you have to trust that the designer took everything into account.  I mentioned previously that OTL amps are preferred, but with a good output transformer design (yes, beefy), you can get good sound from tubes.

2.   Rectification: Tube rectification is better than diode, preferably with a choke in PS
Regarding the choke in the power supply, this depends on the design of the choke (core type, inductance, etc.).  Too much inductance can cause the rails to "bounce".  Also, It's too general an issue to say what's best here because every implementation can be done right or wrong.  I can't think of a solid reason to say tube rectifiers are any better than silicon.

3.   Tubes: NOS is generally better than today's Chinese, Russian, Czech and former Yugo production. It's more than just testing well.
No comment.  I'd rather leave that question to a good tube amp designer, like Roger M!

4.   Parts I - Caps : Good ol’ Sprague caps sound better than new expensive exotics
New electrolytic capacitors are very reliable, have low resistance, and are priced much more reasonably.  Exotic caps in power supplies might be a waste, and it can be a better alternative to use standard ones with good bypassing instead (ceramic, poly).  There's no such thing as "magic".

5.   Parts II - Materials: Silver is better if you can afford it. Silver transformers, wiring, etc…
Better specifications and reliability are the key.  There's no cheating physics.

6.   Design: Fewer stages the better
Too broad of a statement, but in general, this is true.  Imagine that every stage of an amplifier contributes its own distortion.  The end result is a product of the combined effects of all stages in the signal path.  However, I'd rather use three stages that have 0.01% THD than one that has 0.1%.

7.   Negative Feedback: Preferably none. Zero NFB is best
Well, once again this is about the end product and too general of a statement to be unconditionally true.  Feedback does create problems, but if done properly, it can solve more problems than it creates.  If you can make an open loop amp with no distortion, noise, or output impedance than you don't need feedback.  However, this is not technically possible.  I might venture to say that feedback design (a very involved topic) is most important to the sound of an amplifier.  Also, as output power increases, the need for error correction generally increases with it.

8.   Design II: Class A … nuff said, generally sounds better than AB, B and other variants
Class-B is not practical for audio due to crossover (neg to pos) distortion.  Class-AB is not as good as Class-A in this same respect.  The biasing of Class-AB can put it close to Class-A, but than you throw more power into the room through heat than into the speaker, especially at low volumes.  Class-H and Class-G are higher efficiency, but suffer the same problems as Class-AB.  I personally like the sound of Class-A, but it can be as much a space heater as an amplifier!  My favorite (big surprise) is Class-D.  Beware of fake class names like Class-Z and Class-T because they are really Class-D.  Class-D amps are often called "digital amplifiers", but this is a gray area as far as correct nomenclature.

9.   Construction: Hand wired is generally better than PCB
This really depends on the quality of the wiring.  Complicated designs are not "hand wirable", so I think this is a false statement. PCB layout is an art in and of itself, and if done properly is better electrically.  This wasn't the case in the 1940s.

10.   Straight wire with gain : Tone controls are generally bad, another complexity to degrade the signal from "purity"
Same as with more stages in the amp.  The less the audio goes through on the was from the source to the speaker, the better, but it's the compound effect that matters in the end.

11.  Transformer II: Transformer-coupled amps perform better than those using a cap between stages
I believe direct coupling is best (servo inputs, etc.).  Frequency response at the low end of the spectrum can be ruined by caps or transformers.  However, if designed properly the effect of good quality passive components in the signal path is nearly zero.

12.  Made in the USA: The Chinese don't care about quality of products. Made in the USA is best if you want your amp to last.
In general, yes, but I can't say if this will still be the case 20 years from now.  The Chinese are getting better at producing quality electronics every day.

Please understand that I had to limit how much time I put into this post, so I couldn't address every nuance.  The bottom line is that you can't make conclusions based on broad topics, so just listening is still the only way to know who makes a better amp.  I believe that designer experience is the most important thing, not brand name, magazine reviews, or gimmicks!  Thanks for reading this, and I invite comments!
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: jman66 on 25 Aug 2008, 04:53 pm
Hi Tom,

How does CLDjam™ relate to the DAC4800A and Cherry amps? What can you elaborate on regarding this? Thanks.

-jim
Title: Re: AUDIOGON HAS CHERRY L.T. HALF PRICE --- TIME RUNNING OUT
Post by: THE_ANSWERS on 25 Aug 2008, 09:07 pm
Check this link:
http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/auc.pl?ampstran&1219539808

Digital Amplifier Company page for this fine amp:
http://www.digitalamp.com/Cherry_amp2.htm

Also, the Cherry amp is on Google Base and Amazon (www.TrueDigitalAmp.com).  Similar to the DAC4800A amp, also on www.DigitalAmp.com.  There is a review on www.audioreview.com for the DAC4800A, but the manufacurer is listed as unknown because they don't have a way to add new manufacturers!!!  Also, there is a great review about the Cherry amp on Audiogon (see the listing for the address).

Anyway, check it out ASAP!

Just over one day left on the auction!

Thanks.

Have a great weekend...


i see the cherry unit didn't sell on audiogon or did it???????
Title: Re: AUDIOGON HAS CHERRY L.T. HALF PRICE --- TIME RUNNING OUT
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 26 Aug 2008, 12:58 am
Check this link:
http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/auc.pl?ampstran&1219539808

Digital Amplifier Company page for this fine amp:
http://www.digitalamp.com/Cherry_amp2.htm

Also, the Cherry amp is on Google Base and Amazon (www.TrueDigitalAmp.com).  Similar to the DAC4800A amp, also on www.DigitalAmp.com.  There is a review on www.audioreview.com for the DAC4800A, but the manufacurer is listed as unknown because they don't have a way to add new manufacturers!!!  Also, there is a great review about the Cherry amp on Audiogon (see the listing for the address).

Anyway, check it out ASAP!

Just over one day left on the auction!

Thanks.

Have a great weekend...


i see the cherry unit didn't sell on audiogon or did it???????


Well, we only did 3 days as a trial run and it received something like 700 page views.

Please sign up for our newsletter since we will be making a really great offer very soon (only for subscribers):
http://www.digitalamp.com/news.htm

Thanks for your post.
Title: LESS THAN 12 HOURS LEFT DAC4800A amp on Ebay
Post by: THE_ANSWERS on 26 Aug 2008, 02:14 pm
i am allowed to forward this pm...

"There's a great deal on a DAC4800A amp.  Less than half price.  Here's the link:
http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=m38&_nkw=DAC4800A

We are working to build them as fast as we can, but this unit is the last new one for a little while...

Thanks for taking a look."
Title: Re: LESS THAN 12 HOURS LEFT DAC4800A amp on Ebay
Post by: jman66 on 26 Aug 2008, 02:31 pm
There's a great deal on a DAC4800A amp.  Less than half price.  Here's the link:
http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=m38&_nkw=DAC4800A

We are working to build them as fast as we can, but this unit is the last new one for a little while...

Thanks for taking a look.

This amp doesn't look all that new, mark/smudges, et.al. on the faceplate, maybe its just a bad picture...
But, the faceplate colors differ from the DAC4800A pictures on the DAC website. Is the one for sale perhaps old stock or a refurb?

Still waiting to learn what CLDjam™ is and how it relates to the 4800A & Cherry.
Thanks.
Title: Re: LESS THAN 12 HOURS LEFT DAC4800A amp on Ebay
Post by: mcullinan on 26 Aug 2008, 02:43 pm
There's a great deal on a DAC4800A amp.  Less than half price.  Here's the link:
http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=m38&_nkw=DAC4800A

We are working to build them as fast as we can, but this unit is the last new one for a little while...

Thanks for taking a look.


Huh... Answers, Did you pick up that copy about We are building them as fast as we can, or did you write that? If you are working for the company it should be in your signoff.

Everything about the DAC company is off and a little bit suspicious. Someone suggested that either you are really bad at marketing or you are not being honest. If you are building them as fast as you can... why are you not building more? Why are those two thoughts placed together? WTF! It makes no sense.

Mike
Title: Re: LESS THAN 12 HOURS LEFT DAC4800A amp on Ebay
Post by: THE_ANSWERS on 26 Aug 2008, 03:02 pm
There's a great deal on a DAC4800A amp.  Less than half price.  Here's the link:
http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=m38&_nkw=DAC4800A

We are working to build them as fast as we can, but this unit is the last new one for a little while...

Thanks for taking a look.


Huh... Answers, Did you pick up that copy about We are building them as fast as we can, or did you write that? If you are working for the company it should be in your signoff.

Everything about the DAC company is off and a little bit suspicious. Someone suggested that either you are really bad at marketing or you are not being honest. If you are building them as fast as you can... why are you not building more? Why are those two thoughts placed together? WTF! It makes no sense.

Mike
im on a mailing list from them   guess you arent .   surprised this wasnt spammed to everybody      you attack is suspicious....... maybe you are a competitor or something????????
Title: Re: LESS THAN 12 HOURS LEFT DAC4800A amp on Ebay
Post by: jman66 on 26 Aug 2008, 03:13 pm
There's a great deal on a DAC4800A amp.  Less than half price.  Here's the link:
http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=m38&_nkw=DAC4800A

We are working to build them as fast as we can, but this unit is the last new one for a little while...

Thanks for taking a look.


Huh... Answers, Did you pick up that copy about We are building them as fast as we can, or did you write that? If you are working for the company it should be in your signoff.

Everything about the DAC company is off and a little bit suspicious. Someone suggested that either you are really bad at marketing or you are not being honest. If you are building them as fast as you can... why are you not building more? Why are those two thoughts placed together? WTF! It makes no sense.

Mike
im on a mailing list from them   guess you arent .   surprised this wasnt spammed to everybody      you attack is suspicious....... maybe you are a competitor or something????????


I subscribed to the mailing list and did not receive what you posted. :scratch:

Some tidbits...
http://www.glgroup.com/Council-Member/Thomas-OBrien-19917.html
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_2005_March_7/ai_n11851528
Title: Re: LESS THAN 12 HOURS LEFT DAC4800A amp on Ebay
Post by: mcullinan on 26 Aug 2008, 03:16 pm
There's a great deal on a DAC4800A amp.  Less than half price.  Here's the link:
http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=m38&_nkw=DAC4800A

We are working to build them as fast as we can, but this unit is the last new one for a little while...

Thanks for taking a look.


Huh... Answers, Did you pick up that copy about We are building them as fast as we can, or did you write that? If you are working for the company it should be in your signoff.

Everything about the DAC company is off and a little bit suspicious. Someone suggested that either you are really bad at marketing or you are not being honest. If you are building them as fast as you can... why are you not building more? Why are those two thoughts placed together? WTF! It makes no sense.

Mike
im on a mailing list from them   guess you arent .   surprised this wasnt spammed to everybody      you attack is suspicious....... maybe you are a competitor or something????????

Nope. It just looks like you wrote it. Maybe put it in quotes?
Mike
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: rydenfan on 26 Aug 2008, 03:50 pm
Anyone actually heard one of these yet? Or know a single person who actually own one?
Title: Re: LESS THAN 12 HOURS LEFT DAC4800A amp on Ebay
Post by: THE_ANSWERS on 26 Aug 2008, 04:00 pm
There's a great deal on a DAC4800A amp.  Less than half price.  Here's the link:
http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=m38&_nkw=DAC4800A

We are working to build them as fast as we can, but this unit is the last new one for a little while...

Thanks for taking a look.


Huh... Answers, Did you pick up that copy about We are building them as fast as we can, or did you write that? If you are working for the company it should be in your signoff.

Everything about the DAC company is off and a little bit suspicious. Someone suggested that either you are really bad at marketing or you are not being honest. If you are building them as fast as you can... why are you not building more? Why are those two thoughts placed together? WTF! It makes no sense.

Mike
im on a mailing list from them   guess you arent .   surprised this wasnt spammed to everybody      you attack is suspicious....... maybe you are a competitor or something????????

Nope. It just looks like you wrote it. Maybe put it in quotes?
Mike

i did that   !!!!!!

so much time of mine is wasted here    i posted on a thread about isolation platforms and realize im probably talking to someone who is gullable an cant be reached with any logic

    there is a scam at every corner
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: miklorsmith on 26 Aug 2008, 04:14 pm
What logic was that exactly?  Why don't you respond in that thread with your irrefutable and well-crafted thoughts?

I especially look forward to your taking on Occam with your d i g i t a l comments.  Reminds me of the old Bugs Bunny cartoons - "He don't know me very well, do he?"

Sorry for the OT, I do like the Tour idea!
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: bummrush on 26 Aug 2008, 04:47 pm
Seems like somebody needs cash bad,the way they being pushed over and over,sure sign to stay away,if you have hundreds of users you should be retired by now.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: THE_ANSWERS on 26 Aug 2008, 05:49 pm
What logic was that exactly?  Why don't you respond in that thread with your irrefutable and well-crafted thoughts?

I especially look forward to your taking on Occam with your d i g i t a l comments.  Reminds me of the old Bugs Bunny cartoons - "He don't know me very well, do he?"

Sorry for the OT, I do like the Tour idea!

look at the other thread about the isolation platforms    i posted a new one there a few minutes ago with plenty of logic    youll see    tired of explaining it over and over    people comment about stupid stuff like sentence structure and punctuation not audio or facts     to save you the time if a cd player is designed properly it should not need a platform    see    logic

Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: Occam on 26 Aug 2008, 09:06 pm
What logic was that exactly?  Why don't you respond in that thread with your irrefutable and well-crafted thoughts?

I especially look forward to your taking on Occam with your d i g i t a l comments.  Reminds me of the old Bugs Bunny cartoons - "He don't know me very well, do he?"

Sorry for the OT, I do like the Tour idea!

look at the other thread about the isolation platforms    i posted a new one there a few minutes ago with plenty of logic    youll see    tired of explaining it over and over    people comment about stupid stuff like sentence structure and punctuation not audio or facts     to save you the time if a cd player is designed properly it should not need a platform    see    logic

I take exception to the implication that my response to you on that thread -
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=58880.20

in any way commented on your sentence structure or logic (if that's what you call it). My responses tried to address technical issues. I realize that you're obviously not a native English speaker, but I think it unwise to model your posts on the writings of e.e. cummings. No doubt all here would truly like to divine your actual intent, but sadly, few here are conversant with the language, logic or technology of the Zargon Legion of the Prometheus Nebula.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: Philistine on 26 Aug 2008, 09:36 pm
The reason I was attracted to this forum was access to 'boutique' equipment that gives great performance and value, and the DAC amps may or may not fit very well into this categories.  The sure fire way of getting AC members interested is to get unit/units in the hands of members, either through get to togethers or tours - if the amps are good then sales will follow very quickly!  At the moment all that's being generated are posts going nowhere, I would like to see posts based on feedback reviews.

I'm not trying to be negative, on the contrary - if the product is good then I would like to know and, as I stated, sales will follow.
Title: explaining CLDjam with respect to the DAC4800A and Cherry
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 27 Aug 2008, 01:24 am
Hi Tom,

How does CLDjam™ relate to the DAC4800A and Cherry amps? What can you elaborate on regarding this? Thanks.

-jim

Jim,

Sorry for the delay.  CLDjam is a patented modulation technique used in our amplifiers.  This technique allows maximum use of the power rails for close-to-limit output with high stability.  The modulator is a high order feedback design that relies on a solid high-current inner loop.  I can tell you that we tried several general topologies over more than a decade to narrow it down to the CLDjam process.  I can also tell you that this process needs careful implementation to live up to its potential, so our design is not only about the technique; it's about the practical issues as well.  We surround the modulator with a strong power supply, clean front end circuit design, and carefully selected components to achieve good bench measurements and great sound.  Over the years, this design has been "tweaked" for sound where it actually made the bench measurements not come out as good (even though they are still top notch).  We found that test equipment favors some effects that ears do not, but this is nothing new to many audio enthusiasts.  Hope that explains CLDjam for you.  Please don't hesitate to reply with more questions.  Thanks for your kind post and patience in answering it.

Best Regards,
Tommy / DAC
Title: DAC4800A and Cherry reviews and our operation in general
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 27 Aug 2008, 01:57 am
The reason I was attracted to this forum was access to 'boutique' equipment that gives great performance and value, and the DAC amps may or may not fit very well into this categories.  The sure fire way of getting AC members interested is to get unit/units in the hands of members, either through get to togethers or tours - if the amps are good then sales will follow very quickly!  At the moment all that's being generated are posts going nowhere, I would like to see posts based on feedback reviews.

I'm not trying to be negative, on the contrary - if the product is good then I would like to know and, as I stated, sales will follow.

Yes!  That's exactly what we're trying to do, but this will take some time.  We are planning to attend a "rave" in October, and we are also offering demos to AC members on a limited basis.  DAC is a bootstrap operation, so units are built as they are sold.  We would have more units on hand if we had a pile of cash to fund higher volume production, but this is not currently the case (we hope someday it will be!).  We also offer deals to our newsletter subscribers (see http://www.digitalamp.com/news.htm) as units become available.

We AVOID a few things (mentioned in previous posts) so we can offer the best value possible.  We don't sell through dealers --- they take pretty high margins.  We don't attend trade shows --- these are very expensive.  We don't pay for advertising --- this is a huge expense for a small company.  We feel the benefits of skipping these three major expenses is very beneficial to our customers.  Our products are special; not the same old thing you see in your friends listening rooms.  We also had a massive development effort over the years to create these products, and we are stretching that expense well into the future.

So, if you're looking for customer reviews, look here:
http://www.digitalamp.com/DAC_REVIEWS.htm

... and there's one on Audiogon for Cherry:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/frr.pl?ramps&1216594678&read&3&4&

... and there's one on Audiogon for DAC4800A:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/frr.pl?ramps&1179282474&read&3&4&

...and for both DAC4800A and Cherry here (Amazon, all 5-stars!):
http://www.truedigitalamp.com/

We have some reviews that have not been added to our web site yet.  Life's busy, you know.

Well, thanks so much for your kind post!
Title: No new product announcements in Stereophile
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 27 Aug 2008, 02:01 am
We just heard back from John Atkinson and Robert Deutsch of Stereophile Magazine.  They said that Stereophile doesn't do new product announcements.  We are looking for a high-circulation high-end audio publication that does.  Can anyone out there suggest one???  Thank you!
Title: Re: explaining CLDjam with respect to the DAC4800A and Cherry
Post by: art on 27 Aug 2008, 02:06 am
Hope that explains CLDjam for you. 

Hate to step on your toes, but I think his answer is going to be "NO!" If you make it any more detailed, the average reader may tune out. Besides, some of your competitors may be reading. (There is one instance on one of the DIY forums where a Class D "designer" appeared as both the designer and a satisfied customer. Obviously under different names. One waxed poetically about great it sounded; the other trolled for design help from more experienced forum members.)

I wish you luck, because I think you are going to need it. That is about all the advice that I can give you at this point. You're on your own form here on out.

I know.............shut up and get back to working on SB3 mods. (I am, just not fast enough.)

Pat
Title: Re: explaining CLDjam with respect to the DAC4800A and Cherry
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 27 Aug 2008, 04:39 am
Hope that explains CLDjam for you. 

Hate to step on your toes, but I think his answer is going to be "NO!" If you make it any more detailed, the average reader may tune out. Besides, some of your competitors may be reading. (There is one instance on one of the DIY forums where a Class D "designer" appeared as both the designer and a satisfied customer. Obviously under different names. One waxed poetically about great it sounded; the other trolled for design help from more experienced forum members.)

I wish you luck, because I think you are going to need it. That is about all the advice that I can give you at this point. You're on your own form here on out.

I know.............shut up and get back to working on SB3 mods. (I am, just not fast enough.)

Pat

Pat,

As always, thanks for the kind post.  You're not stepping on my toes at all.  I appreciate the insight very much.  At one stage in the history of Digital Amplifier Company, we went around to many semiconductor companies, all big names and all public companies, to get them to collaborate with us and make a chip for our application.  Their number one motive turned out to be picking our brains.  Most of them did this while hanging a development contract in front of us like a carrot on a stick.  One of them even brought in their PhD expert to "review our technology" and we thought we had the deal aside from some paperwork.  They pulled the rug out at the last minute and went on to develop something similar, but weren't able to make it work well.  This is proof that it's not the technology alone that makes our products work.  It's experience with practical implementation.  I believe this is why there are so many digital amps on the market that have been a disappointment.  The number of parasites out there is just amazing.  They see that you "have something real" and they try to find a way to get in the loop.  They come in many forms: marketing companies, semiconductor companies, and even brands.  A few semiconductor companies came back to us years later to ask if we'd like to resume talks, and we respectfully declined.  Fortunately, we learned to take this in stride and keep going despite how discouraging it can be.  Well, thanks again and good luck with your SB3 mods!
Title: Re: explaining CLDjam with respect to the DAC4800A and Cherry
Post by: jman66 on 27 Aug 2008, 11:49 am

Hope that explains CLDjam for you. 

Thanks Tom! Appreciate the info.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: woodsyi on 27 Aug 2008, 12:01 pm
I am one of those that have had general unease with the sound of switching amps in mid/high application.  I haven't tried the expensive ones which makes my experience incomplete.  I understand that implementation is more important in practice then theoretical tendencies of a topology.  I am willing to try your amp if you will do a tour.  I have mega watt tube monoblocks, medium power EL34 amp, 300B SET, Hypex, ICE and Class A SS amp to compare yours to.  I love the efficiency and damping power of Class D amps.  I just haven't been convinced yet that it is good in mid/high only application as I triamp my system. 
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: sts9fan on 27 Aug 2008, 12:24 pm
Quote
Can anyone out there suggest one???  Thank you!

Did you send it to 6moons?  They will for sure put it in their new section.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: TheChairGuy on 27 Aug 2008, 01:23 pm
I am one of those that have had general unease with the sound of switching amps in mid/high application.  I haven't tried the expensive ones which makes my experience incomplete.  I understand that implementation is more important in practice then theoretical tendencies of a topology.  I am willing to try your amp if you will do a tour.  I have mega watt tube monoblocks, medium power EL34 amp, 300B SET, Hypex, ICE and Class A SS amp to compare yours to.  I love the efficiency and damping power of Class D amps.  I just haven't been convinced yet that it is good in mid/high only application as I triamp my system. 

Wow - what he said  :bowdown:

It's as succinct a statement as I could have made for myself regarding experiences with Class D amps. 

There is much to like about the previous ones I've tried (and heard), none of which megabuck topline ones (except ones I've heard), but all fell short of some expectation bettered by some 'traditional' SS and most tube gear.

John
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: konut on 27 Aug 2008, 01:33 pm
I am one of those that have had general unease with the sound of switching amps in mid/high application.  I haven't tried the expensive ones which makes my experience incomplete.  I understand that implementation is more important in practice then theoretical tendencies of a topology.   I love the efficiency and damping power of Class D amps. 

This echoes my sentiments exactly. All you need is 1 amp to do a tour. 1st stop, 6moons, 2nd stop, woodsyi. After that you can get a feel for who the members are here that have the experience and wherewith all to give a fair review of your amp. You walk a tightrope with the boutique segment of the high end audio market. Marketing on the cheap is fine as long as you can get some credibility, and there is no finer place for that than AC. As you've seen, the members here have given you the benefit of the doubt, so far, and are willing to invest the time to give your amps a fair hearing.
Title: Re: DAC4800A and Cherry reviews and our operation in general
Post by: Philistine on 27 Aug 2008, 01:36 pm
The reason I was attracted to this forum was access to 'boutique' equipment that gives great performance and value, and the DAC amps may or may not fit very well into this categories.  The sure fire way of getting AC members interested is to get unit/units in the hands of members, either through get to togethers or tours - if the amps are good then sales will follow very quickly!  At the moment all that's being generated are posts going nowhere, I would like to see posts based on feedback reviews.

I'm not trying to be negative, on the contrary - if the product is good then I would like to know and, as I stated, sales will follow.

Yes!  That's exactly what we're trying to do, but this will take some time.  We are planning to attend a "rave" in October, and we are also offering demos to AC members on a limited basis.  DAC is a bootstrap operation, so units are built as they are sold.  We would have more units on hand if we had a pile of cash to fund higher volume production, but this is not currently the case (we hope someday it will be!).  We also offer deals to our newsletter subscribers (see http://www.digitalamp.com/news.htm) as units become available.

We AVOID a few things (mentioned in previous posts) so we can offer the best value possible.  We don't sell through dealers --- they take pretty high margins.  We don't attend trade shows --- these are very expensive.  We don't pay for advertising --- this is a huge expense for a small company.  We feel the benefits of skipping these three major expenses is very beneficial to our customers.  Our products are special; not the same old thing you see in your friends listening rooms.  We also had a massive development effort over the years to create these products, and we are stretching that expense well into the future.

So, if you're looking for customer reviews, look here:
http://www.digitalamp.com/DAC_REVIEWS.htm

... and there's one on Audiogon for Cherry:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/frr.pl?ramps&1216594678&read&3&4&

... and there's one on Audiogon for DAC4800A:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/frr.pl?ramps&1179282474&read&3&4&

...and for both DAC4800A and Cherry here (Amazon, all 5-stars!):
http://www.truedigitalamp.com/

We have some reviews that have not been added to our web site yet.  Life's busy, you know.

Well, thanks so much for your kind post!


Thanks for your responsiveness.
From the lively debate on this thread you can see that a lot of interest has been generated on your amps.  I've been hanging out on this forum for a couple of years and have a good feel for what other members have tried, their systems and sonic preferences - and this is why a review from AC membership is valid to me.  The references you quote are interesting but it's more difficult to reference these than feedback from AC membership.  Consequently I would encourage you to attend one of the raves or find another way to get your amp/s to a member who lives close by.  I live in Pittsburgh so I'm too far West from you, as I would love to volunteer!
If you have a good product this forum is a great marketing tool to generate sales, good luck.  
 
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: THE_ANSWERS on 27 Aug 2008, 09:45 pm
interesting topicmaybe something you want to comment on..................

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=50955.msg523750;topicseen#new

on another subject    the amp you had on ebay didnt sell     you are barking up the wrong tree on ebay and amazon    yoshould try again on audiogon and get reviews by people on ac      see my other ideas about that a few pages back      how about getting buyers to post here????????????????     maybe you need a course in sales and marketing because it looks like you are not trying to hard to sell or just going to the wrong places    have you thought of asking krell or bryston or somebody like that to put their name on your product or your guts in theirs??????????
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: richidoo on 27 Aug 2008, 10:34 pm
We have monthly audio meetings in NC, I would be happy to host a meeting to listen to your amplifier with our group of about 12-15 active audiophiles, should it become available for a stop on a demo tour. We have good gear and open minds so it would receive a fair review. I am looking forward to hearing it. Sounds very intriguing.
Thanks
Rich
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 28 Aug 2008, 04:00 am
interesting topicmaybe something you want to comment on..................

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=50955.msg523750;topicseen#new

on another subject    the amp you had on ebay didnt sell     you are barking up the wrong tree on ebay and amazon    yoshould try again on audiogon and get reviews by people on ac      see my other ideas about that a few pages back      how about getting buyers to post here????????????????     maybe you need a course in sales and marketing because it looks like you are not trying to hard to sell or just going to the wrong places    have you thought of asking krell or bryston or somebody like that to put their name on your product or your guts in theirs??????????


I added a long post to the thread you pointed to.  Thanks for the lead on that.
 
Regarding EBay, Amazon, and Audiogon, please realize that we are taking many factors into account and believe we are doing the right thing for our business.  We are willing to adjust as necessary, but we have a plan to get the word out effectively and honestly.
 
We are not pros in marketing.  We are pros in engineering, however.  I find your related comment a bit insulting, but unlike others you have dealt with on this forum, we will not issue a personally disparaging conclusion.  I have seen your other posts, and they are marginally judgmental in many cases.
 
We plan to ask our subscribers to comment on Audio Circle eventually, but we want to wait for more dialog first.
 
By the way, if you receive an email from us, please don't post it on this forum.  We post what we think is appropriate ourselves.
 
If you are a fan of our products, you should consider buying something.  We do have a money back guarantee.  I see that you are a fan of "on the cheap" audio, but for the real deal, you need to spend some money sometimes.  Thanks again.
Title: Comments about speaker wires
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 28 Aug 2008, 04:00 pm
I commented on another thread about speaker wires, and thought you all might like to see it, plus some additional comments:

It comes down to resistance and inductance.  If you can solder, buy 12 gauge or 14 gauge (if the run length is less than 15 feet) wire and get terminations from Digi-Key.  By terminations, I mean banana plugs or spade lugs.  I definitely recommend soldered connections instead of crimped for long life.  I agree that this is a typical area for spending too much when it really doesn't make a difference to the sound or your system.  This comes from an engineer with 20 years experience, not a marketing firm.

Speaker wires are a special subject to me.  Chuck, an old friend, who had Dunleavy speakers and Krell amps told me how he just bought new speakers cables for something like $2500.  I did an A/B test with him and concluded that he wasted his money.  I didn't want to tell him that since I knew it would just break his heart.  This was many years ago, and now I wish I would have spoke my mind at the time.
Title: Re: Comments about speaker wires
Post by: THE_ANSWERS on 28 Aug 2008, 06:31 pm
I commented on another thread about speaker wires, and thought you all might like to see it, plus some additional comments:

It comes down to resistance and inductance.  If you can solder, buy 12 gauge or 14 gauge (if the run length is less than 15 feet) wire and get terminations from Digi-Key.  By terminations, I mean banana plugs or spade lugs.  I definitely recommend soldered connections instead of crimped for long life.  I agree that this is a typical area for spending too much when it really doesn't make a difference to the sound or your system.  This comes from an engineer with 20 years experience, not a marketing firm.

Speaker wires are a special subject to me.  Chuck, an old friend, who had Dunleavy speakers and Krell amps told me how he just bought new speakers cables for something like $2500.  I did an A/B test with him and concluded that he wasted his money.  I didn't want to tell him that since I knew it would just break his heart.  This was many years ago, and now I wish I would have spoke my mind at the time.

nice    i just got don arguing about isolation platforms for cd players         this is a similar topic !!!!!!      but, im not arrogant enough to say i never fell for such stuff    later.....................
Title: Re: Comments about speaker wires
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 28 Aug 2008, 07:42 pm
I commented on another thread about speaker wires, and thought you all might like to see it, plus some additional comments:

It comes down to resistance and inductance.  If you can solder, buy 12 gauge or 14 gauge (if the run length is less than 15 feet) wire and get terminations from Digi-Key.  By terminations, I mean banana plugs or spade lugs.  I definitely recommend soldered connections instead of crimped for long life.  I agree that this is a typical area for spending too much when it really doesn't make a difference to the sound or your system.  This comes from an engineer with 20 years experience, not a marketing firm.

Speaker wires are a special subject to me.  Chuck, an old friend, who had Dunleavy speakers and Krell amps told me how he just bought new speakers cables for something like $2500.  I did an A/B test with him and concluded that he wasted his money.  I didn't want to tell him that since I knew it would just break his heart.  This was many years ago, and now I wish I would have spoke my mind at the time.

nice    i just got don arguing about isolation platforms for cd players         this is a similar topic !!!!!!      but, im not arrogant enough to say i never fell for such stuff    later.....................

Who is Don (ha ha, check your post)?  The topics of speaker cables and isolation platforms are very different.  Thanks for your post.
Title: Can't add new manufacturer to Audio Review
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 28 Aug 2008, 10:50 pm
We tried to add the DAC4800A amplifier (see http://www.digitalamp.com/4800a_amp1.htm) to Audio Review so we can get customers to add reviews there.  However, there is no selection for adding a new manufacturer.  The listing shows up with "unknown" as the manufacturer.  Here's the link:
http://www.audioreview.com/cat/amplification/amplifiers/unknown/dac4800a/PRD_419903_1583crx.aspx

We wrote to them, but no reply.  We posted to the help board, but the post was removed.

Does anyone on Audio Circle know somebody in charge at Audio Review?  We would like to get on the manufacturers list.  Locking us out is just not fair.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 29 Aug 2008, 12:32 am
Remember my comments on feedback around for the output filter (or not)?

Well, this became the focus of a thread on Audio Circle!

Check this post and my reply:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=58953.msg524187;topicseen#new

The brands mentioned:
Tripath, Panasonic, Hypex, ICE, Spectron, and Nuforce

If you've heard the DAC4800A or Cherry against these amps, please comment on this thread.

Thanks!
Title: DAC4800A and Cherry versus other digital amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 29 Aug 2008, 12:42 am
Remember my comments on feedback around for the output filter (or not)?

Well, this became the focus of a thread on Audio Circle!

Check this post and my reply:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=58953.msg524187;topicseen#new

The brands mentioned:
Tripath, Panasonic, Hypex, ICE, Spectron, and Nuforce

If you've heard the DAC4800A or Cherry against these amps, please comment on this thread.

Thanks!

By the way, I did hear a PS Audio ICE based amp (even tested it on the bench) and several Tripath based amps...
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: bummrush on 29 Aug 2008, 03:09 am
What does a input buffer do ?That was something i think Wyerd for sound  said made theirs sounds better?Also what does the output filter do?Thanks.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: TomS on 29 Aug 2008, 03:32 am
I believe it makes it easier for a tube preamp to drive.  61k ohm vs 10k or so input impedance of the module they use stock.  Ask Rick Cullen for sure.  Bascom King designed it.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: Brian Cheney on 29 Aug 2008, 03:35 am
I think it would be useful to publish scope photos of the output waveforms of the DAC amplifiers, as I suggested in another thread.

I have seen some truly bizarre waveforms from switching amps, all supersonic but all capable of folding down into the audio range.
Title: Some thoughts on Switching Amplifier Output Ripple
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 30 Aug 2008, 02:11 am
I think it would be useful to publish scope photos of the output waveforms of the DAC amplifiers, as I suggested in another thread.

I have seen some truly bizarre waveforms from switching amps, all supersonic but all capable of folding down into the audio range.

Regarding "folding down", this is called aliasing and is explained by sampling theory.  Here is a basic explanation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyquist%E2%80%93Shannon_sampling_theorem#Aliasing

Aliasing only happens when the waveform is sampled, which is not the case for a switching amplifier output driving a loudspeaker.  The time domain output waveform of a switching amplifier (after the output filter) has switching ripple superimposed on top of the audio.  The ripple is ultrasonic, so it is not heard.  The mechanical limitations of loudspeakers do not allow this superimposed waveform to enter the room, not that it would matter anyway, as long as the switching frequency (Fsw) is high enough (>100KHz).  Most switching amps change states (switch) at a rate of 350KHz or greater.  Higher switching rates cause additional EMI and lower efficiency, and lower rates are harder to filter.  The power dissipated in the loudspeaker by the ripple is typically a few milliwatts.  In order to accurately measure the performance of a switching amplifier, a filter that removes most of the ripple is usually placed between the amplifier under test and the measurement device.  Such a filter requires flat response out to 20KHz or greater, but a rapid fall-off by the 100KHz range.  Attempting to measure a switching amplifier without such a filter can drive the measurement equipment nuts as it tries to sync to the amplifier's output ripple instead of the audio signal.

We are taking some time off for the holiday weekend, but we plan to take some scope shots next week.  Thanks for your post.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: Brian Cheney on 30 Aug 2008, 02:31 am
Using the older Audio Precision measurement gear one has the option of switching on 40kHz and 80kHz filters.  Even with the lower filter engaged some poor behavior was noticed from a very well regarded Class D amp.

The new AP stuff has brickwall filters which may well reveal less of this.  In any case the Class D amps I have tried so far either made me uncomfortable or quite ill.

B Cheney
Pres VMPS Ribbon
www.vmpsaudio.com
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: jhm731 on 30 Aug 2008, 03:07 am
DAC4800A is in da house.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/gallery/albums/userpics/50229/DAC4800A2.JPG)

PS- I find it interesting that Mr.Cheney would like to see scope photos of Tommy's amps, yet I've never
seen him post any measurments of his speakers. If I'm wrong, please direct me to the measurements. 8)
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 30 Aug 2008, 03:26 am
Using the older Audio Precision measurement gear one has the option of switching on 40kHz and 80kHz filters.  Even with the lower filter engaged some poor behavior was noticed from a very well regarded Class D amp.

The new AP stuff has brickwall filters which may well reveal less of this.  In any case the Class D amps I have tried so far either made me uncomfortable or quite ill.

B Cheney
Pres VMPS Ribbon
www.vmpsaudio.com

The AP's built-in filters are in the measurement path but not the PLL sync path, at least as of 2005 or so.  That's most likely the problem.  You probably need an external filter even with the newest of AP analyzers.  Have you tried the AUX-0025?

By the way, your speakers are awesome!  Maybe we can arrange for you to try the DAC4800A or Cherry.  Can you provide impedance plots for any of your designs?  This is just out of curiosity since these amps aren't "afraid" of difficult loads.  I'm a big fan of ribbons and currently have an Apogee Slant-6 hooked to a DAC4800A.  This is driven with an Audio Research preamp and Theta D/A.

I want you to know it is an honor to be corresponding with you!  Thanks again.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: pbrstreetgang on 30 Aug 2008, 03:31 am
Yum! I will be real interested to hear your opinion of the DAC vs the TacTs. Any internal shots?
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: KS on 30 Aug 2008, 03:44 am
AmpDesigner333

A couple of comments from an AudioCircle member and audiophile consumer....

1--Post using your name.  Many (most?) manufacturers do that, including Brian Cheney, Lee of CryoParts, Danny Richie of GR Research, Hugh Dean of AKSA, and others, not to mention the eponymous company names.  You will sell far fewer of your amps, whatever their quality, if you don't have the trust of people here and elsewhere.

2--Put your business address on your web site.  Make it look like a real business, even if it is in your basement at home.

3--What's with your return policy?...unopened?...how can I try your unit.  Reconsider how you count the days of the return policy.  I want to know how many days I can sample an item from the day the delivery company records its delivery to me to the day I ship it back to the vendor.  Make it 20 days or 30 days or whatever you choose to be days in my possession, without making me liable for freight delays.

4--Establish a demo policy.  Have a unit that anyone can pay full price, use for a few days, pay shipping to the next user (who pays full price), and the first user gets a full refund.  It'll eventually get banged up, and you sell that one at cost.  If folks liked it, they'll buy shiny new ones from you at your retail price.  Or, establish any other demo policy that gets your units out for trials.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: opnly bafld on 30 Aug 2008, 12:45 pm


PS- I find it interesting that Mr.Cheney would like to see scope photos of Tommy's amps, yet I've never
seen him post any measurments of his speakers. If I'm wrong, please direct me to the measurements. 8)

Speaker measurements can be important, but measuring speakers and measuring electronics are two very different things.


I find it interesting that there are people I know that have never heard a class D amp they like and also don't care for DSD recordings. Placebo? maybe or is there something amiss in the frequencies above 20k that in some way affect the audible frequencies?  :scratch:
http://stereophile.com/features/404metrics/

Lin
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 30 Aug 2008, 09:33 pm


PS- I find it interesting that Mr.Cheney would like to see scope photos of Tommy's amps, yet I've never
seen him post any measurments of his speakers. If I'm wrong, please direct me to the measurements. 8)

Speaker measurements can be important, but measuring speakers and measuring electronics are two very different things.


I find it interesting that there are people I know that have never heard a class D amp they like and also don't care for DSD recordings. Placebo? maybe or is there something amiss in the frequencies above 20k that in some way affect the audible frequencies?  :scratch:
http://stereophile.com/features/404metrics/

Lin

Thought I was going to take the weekend off, but...

I read the article (again) and do believe in bandwidth beyond 20KHz.  However, this is a separate subject than output ripple due to the much higher (10x) frequencies involved.  Regarding DSD/SACD, the noise shaping involved encroaches on the "extra octave" above the audible spectrum, so your could be onto something there!

Thanks for your post.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: Brian Cheney on 31 Aug 2008, 12:35 am
jhm731:

In fact, some of our speaker measurements (RM/X bass system FR plus distortion) have been published here, and were featured in the "photo gallery" just two days ago.  Not my photo gallery, but the pix that pop up on the right side of the home page every time one accesses this site.

I must also point out that speaker measurements are easily manipulated, falsified, and downright forged.  I have caught at least one manufacturer doing so right here on AC.
Dick Olsher published measurements of our 626Jr in his enjoythemusic.com review that lead to their awarding us a 2008 "Product of the Year" in the Loudspeaker category this week.  Any measurements I would publish would look rather different, particularly in the bass where room interaction comes in play (I make my bass measurements ultranearfield).

As for trying out one of the DAC switching amps, I have no objections.  Warning: I would publish not only my listening impressions, but full test results (FR, distortion and noise spectra, in and out of band behavior) including scope photos that might disturb some audiophiles. 

B Cheney
Pres, VMPS Ribbon
www.vmpsaudio.com
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: bummrush on 31 Aug 2008, 02:25 am
Well,,, let the games begin!
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: lonewolfny42 on 31 Aug 2008, 03:21 am
jhm731:

In fact, some of our speaker measurements (RM/X bass system FR plus distortion) have been published here, and were featured in the "photo gallery" just two days ago.  Not my photo gallery, but the pix that pop up on the right side of the home page every time one accesses this site.


Their here..... (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=75&page=3)  :thumb:
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: jhm731 on 31 Aug 2008, 05:42 am
jhm731:

In fact, some of our speaker measurements (RM/X bass system FR plus distortion) have been published here, and were featured in the "photo gallery" just two days ago.  Not my photo gallery, but the pix that pop up on the right side of the home page every time one accesses this site.


Their here..... (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=75&page=3)  :thumb:

What do the measurements look like above 200hz?
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: JohnR on 31 Aug 2008, 05:58 am
Could I request please that all discussion (and/or bickering) about speaker measurements be moved to a separate thread, to avoid endangering AmpDesigner's thread. Thanks.

JohnR
Title: first attempt at attaching scope shot
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 31 Aug 2008, 06:09 am
This scope shot shows the DAC4800A driving a 4 ohm load with a 1KHz square wave (10 watts).  The upper trace is the output waveform showing the switching ripple.  This is a sine wave (approximately 400KHz) and looks like "fuzz" on the top and bottom of the signal.  The lower trace shows this signal after passing through an AP AUX-0025 switching amplifier measurement filter.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=15809)

I'm working on getting the trace colors to come out different from the scope.  I know these colors suck, but that's what the scope put out.  Once I get this down, I'll publish more scope shots (maybe even some FFTs).  Thanks.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 1 Sep 2008, 02:58 am
Could I request please that all discussion (and/or bickering) about speaker measurements be moved to a separate thread, to avoid endangering AmpDesigner's thread. Thanks.

JohnR


John,

Good idea.  Please suggest one or let me know if you want me to start a new one.  Thanks as always.

Warm Regards,
Tommy
Title: One DAC4800A demo unit available
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 1 Sep 2008, 06:22 am
We have a DAC4800A demo unit available for $900 (list price is $3600) to AC members.  If you are interested, please email DacSales@DigitalAmp.com.  This unit has a small broken weld in the chassis, but the cover holds it secure (wouldn't notice unless you knew).  The insides are updated to the latest hardware, but the chassis is the old type with input and output connectors on the opposite side as on the new version.  The old style chassis was also made from 18 gauge steel, and the new one is 16 gauge.

Here are details about this amp (new version):
http://www.digitalamp.com/4800a_amp1.htm

Thanks.
Title: Ground cheaters
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 2 Sep 2008, 03:52 am
I'd like to know if anyone is using unbalanced inputs and a "ground cheater plug" to eliminate noise...
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: THE_ANSWERS on 2 Sep 2008, 03:25 pm
interesting topicmaybe something you want to comment on..................

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=50955.msg523750;topicseen#new

on another subject    the amp you had on ebay didnt sell     you are barking up the wrong tree on ebay and amazon    yoshould try again on audiogon and get reviews by people on ac      see my other ideas about that a few pages back      how about getting buyers to post here????????????????     maybe you need a course in sales and marketing because it looks like you are not trying to hard to sell or just going to the wrong places    have you thought of asking krell or bryston or somebody like that to put their name on your product or your guts in theirs??????????

i noticed you did post about the link i sent, but noone commented after that ............
guess that ends the discussion about amps and mechanical vibration !!!!!
about the topic of where to sell how many amps have you sold on amazon????
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: art on 2 Sep 2008, 04:50 pm
   have you thought of asking krell or bryston or somebody like that to put their name on your product or your guts in theirs??????????


I have been trying to stay out of this, for reasons that ought to be obvious, but this one has been a burr under my saddle long enough.

Hey, bub.............why on earth do you think that those guys who even consider that option? In effect, they would be admitting that everything that they have built in the past is doo-doo, and that they can't even do their own design work.

In an industry that is driven by the personalities of the faces of the front men for these companies, your suggestion is never going to happen. If you think otherwise, then we live in different universes.

OK, y'all can go back to pickin' on this other guy. I'll just sit back and watch some more. It is mildly entertaining.

Pat
Title: Re: Ground cheaters
Post by: Occam on 2 Sep 2008, 05:12 pm
I'd like to know if anyone is using unbalanced inputs and a "ground cheater plug" to eliminate noise..

I would hope that no one, who cares about the safety of others, would publically admit to such.
You might well minimize ground loop induced noise/hum, but give up whatever benefits you accrue via balanced inputs. It is an unnecessary choice. It it also a substantial violation of US/Canada electrical codes. There is no such thing as a 'cheater' plug, There ARE plugs whose intended use is to provide a grounded outlet to a nominally ungrounded receptacle, via the receptacle's center center screw which is tied via the receptacles strap to a grounded box.
This might be appropriate for alternative solutions -
http://www.jensen-transformers.com/an/an003.pdf

FWIW,
Paul
Title: Re: Ground cheaters
Post by: jhm731 on 2 Sep 2008, 07:56 pm
I'd like to know if anyone is using unbalanced inputs and a "ground cheater plug" to eliminate noise..

I would hope that no one, who cares about the safety of others, would publically admit to such.
You might well minimize ground loop induced noise/hum, but give up whatever benefits you accrue via balanced inputs. It is an unnecessary choice. It it also a substantial violation of US/Canada electrical codes. There is no such thing as a 'cheater' plug, There ARE plugs whose intended use is to provide a grounded outlet to a nominally ungrounded receptacle, via the receptacle's center center screw which is tied via the receptacles strap to a grounded box.
This might be appropriate for alternative solutions -
http://www.jensen-transformers.com/an/an003.pdf

FWIW,
Paul


"Ground Loop Hum - Sooner or later every sound person encounters a 'ground loop hum' in their sound system. Most people think that adding a transformer module to the power amplifier rack will eliminate the problem, but this is not always the case.

In professional audio, the audio signal path should only be grounded at a single point. This single point grounding is circumvented when 2 pieces of AC powered gear are connected to each other. (Our USA National Electrical Code (NEC) specifies that all electrical equipment that draws potentially harmful amounts of current from the AC Mains must have its metal chassis grounded to the electrical systems 'earth' ground) With this being the case, any AC powered piece of gear with a 3-prong AC plug will more than likely have it's signal grounds at "earth ground" potential. This usually gives the quietest operation for the equipment. Now, if we connect 2 or more pieces of AC powered audio gear together via signal cables, we now have the sound system's audio signal path connected to ground at two points, creating paths that also connect the audio signal to the electrical 'earth' ground. The resultant hum is directly related to the differences in current that flow in the respective electrical circuits, which all share the same earth ground.

If the audio signal path is only connected to ground at a single point, the differences in ground currents will not induce any interference from the power line, so the sound system will not hum.

Using the little gray three pin to two pin electrical AC adapter on the end of the power cord of (1) of the AC powered devices will usually solve the problem, but is not the recommended solution.

The most common problem lies in the fact that the balanced (XLR) audio connections between the mixer and amplifier have a common audio signal ground that finds its way to the electrical ground via multiple chassis ground connections. The solution is to lift the audio signal ground or pin #1 of the balanced connector at the source of the balanced audio signal line. In this case, pin #1 should be lifted at the mixer position. This can be done with an XLR Ground Lift adapter, or if you're adept at electronics, you can lift pin #1 from ground on one end of the balanced cable, this will eliminate the ground loop hum but you may then experience 'RFI' (radio frequency interference) in the system. The solution is this case is to add a small capacitor (such as a .001 mFd) from the shield or ground wire to pin #1. Adding the capacitor allows the balanced line to be lifted (open) from ground at audio frequencies, while acting as a closed circuit for radio frequencies.

The real cause of the ground loops has to do with the way that our electrical power is distributed. In order to explain in any further detail would require a thorough discussion of electrical power distribution. The foundation of the above tip is: Not allowing the audio signal path to go ground in more than one place."


Title: damping factor
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 5 Sep 2008, 04:11 am

We received a question about damping factor this week.  Both the DAC4800A and Cherry were tested for this at 1KHz, which is higher than normal for a damping factor test.  Into 8 ohms, it measures around 200 (Rload/Rout).  We plan to test at 100Hz and post the result here...

There has been some controversy regarding the real meaning of damping factor, however.  Tube amps are known for their sweet sound but usually have a low damping factor due to high output impedance.  We believe the natural open loop performance of the amp comes into play as damping factor lowers.  In most cases this occurs as frequency rises.  With good power supply design and strong output stages, damping factor can mean less to the sound of an amp.  Once again, the proof is in the pudding, so there's no substitute for listening.

Looking for some commentary about this subject...
Title: website issues
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 5 Sep 2008, 12:16 pm
copied from the Google Chrome thread:

Quote
on this page there is a picture with the link "http://www.digitalamp.com/Picture%203619.jpg". This picture does not show up. Also if I click on the link to go to that product page http://www.digitalamp.com/4800a_amp1.htm the same picture does not show up, while the other one (of the two pics) does.  This happens on both the Chrome and Firefox browsers so I think it's safe to say the file is missing.  If you delete the cache in your browser (under options) you will probably see the same thing I am seeing.

I would recommend you pay someone who knows how to setup a "Joomla" website.  Very professional and less expensive than having one built from scratch.  You may be able to buy a Joomla Template and set it up yourself.

Good luck with your biz.

cheers, -Brad-

update: I downloaded one of your "small" pics. It was 1600x1200 pixels and 700K bytes in size!  This would be OK for an expanded display after clicking on the small image.  But you can reduce these images to 12% (to 20K in size) for the initial pic on your products page.

The "this page" above is our products page.

Is anyone out there having similar problems with our site?  If you are having speed problems, are you using dial-up?

Also, anyone have feedback regarding "Joomla"?  I never heard of it before, but like I said on the other thread, we're much better at making amplifiers than we are at making websites!  Thanks.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: jman66 on 5 Sep 2008, 12:20 pm
Tommy,

No problems accessing your website site using IE7...
Title: Re: damping factor
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 5 Sep 2008, 02:45 pm

We received a question about damping factor this week.  Both the DAC4800A and Cherry were tested for this at 1KHz, which is higher than normal for a damping factor test.  Into 8 ohms, it measures around 200 (Rload/Rout).  We plan to test at 100Hz and post the result here...

There has been some controversy regarding the real meaning of damping factor, however.  Tube amps are known for their sweet sound but usually have a low damping factor due to high output impedance.  We believe the natural open loop performance of the amp comes into play as damping factor lowers.  In most cases this occurs as frequency rises.  With good power supply design and strong output stages, damping factor can mean less to the sound of an amp.  Once again, the proof is in the pudding, so there's no substitute for listening.

Looking for some commentary about this subject...


A bold statement from Wikipedia:
"For audio power amplifiers this source impedance Zsource (also: output impedance) is generally smaller than 0.1 Ω (ohms), and, from the point of view of the driver voice coil, is a near short-circuit."

Here's the link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damping_factor

I took some more measurements and will report the results soon...
Title: Re: damping factor
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 5 Sep 2008, 03:25 pm
At 1KHz I got a damping factor of more than 180, and the same for 100Hz, both with an 8 ohm load.

Here's an easy measurement trick to find output resistance, but you need an accurate audio analyzer to use it:
Load the amp with 24 ohms and change the input voltage (sine wave) until you get exactly 24 volts out of the amp.  Remove the load and subtract 24 from the new output voltage measurement.  This is the output resistance in ohms!  24 ohms was picked to increase accuracy, but you can do the same thing with 8 ohms and 8 volts.  The voltage measurement should have 3 digits after the decimal point for this to yield an accurate measurement.

Any comments???
Title: DAC4800A and Cherry Input Impedance
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 6 Sep 2008, 03:03 am
We received some questions outside AC about DAC4800A (and Cherry) input impedance, which is 10K...

It's simple...  You get more noise with higher input impedance.  Going from 10K to 100K might cost as much as 3dB, but since stock SNR is over 114dB, there's room.  We don't do this stock because most preamps have a 600 ohm or lower output impedance, more than 10:1 (the typical "rule of thumb") to drive the amp.  We opted for better SNR.  The current of the preamp's output driving 10K is VERY low (microamps), so that's not really a significant factor.  We can modify amps for 100K input impedance when requested, but there is some rework required.

Comments?
Title: News any day now!!!
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 6 Sep 2008, 10:02 pm
Please take a moment and sign up for our newsletter.  We have one coming out very soon (this weekend?).  Here's the link:
http://www.digitalamp.com/news.htm
Title: Re: News any day now!!!
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 7 Sep 2008, 11:29 pm
Please take a moment and sign up for our newsletter.  We have one coming out very soon (this weekend?).  Here's the link:
http://www.digitalamp.com/news.htm


The newsletter went out today, so please send me a private message if you signed up but didn't receive it.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: richidoo on 7 Sep 2008, 11:46 pm
Tommy or jhm731,
Can you post a clear picture of the front and rear? I can't get what it looks like from any online photos. Looks like a lot of LEDs on the front. Can they be shut off?
Thanks!!
Rich
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mcullinan on 7 Sep 2008, 11:48 pm
Plus post your review Id like to hear your thoughts.
Mike
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 8 Sep 2008, 03:28 am
Tommy or jhm731,
Can you post a clear picture of the front and rear? I can't get what it looks like from any online photos. Looks like a lot of LEDs on the front. Can they be shut off?
Thanks!!
Rich

Sorry for the delay, I'll get working on the pics, probably will post tomorrow...

There are 7 LEDs on the front of the DAC4800A, protect, clip, and active for each channel, red, yellow, green respectively.  The LED in the middle is an AC power indicator, blue.  The Cherry has the same LEDs, but they are internal and glow through the vent holes (looks pretty cool, actually).  The LEDs can be disabled prior to shipping if requested.  Opening the chassis voids the warranty unless we authorize it.  The clip LEDs don't ever light because we disable the clip compression these days.  So far, our customers prefer not to enable compression of any sort even though it only happens during extreme conditions.

Thanks for your kind post.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: jman66 on 8 Sep 2008, 03:27 pm
Tommy,

Can you elaborate on this:

Quote
This amplifier is also a "green" product since it consumes less than 30W when "quiet" and less than 5W in standby mode.

Is it better to:
     A) Leave the amp powered on 24/7 in "quiet" mode?
     B) Leave the amp powered on 24/7 and switch into standy mode when not listening?
     C) Power on/off for each listening session?

Some amps work fine powered on/off for each session, while others benefit from being left on. Where does your amp fit into this?

-jim

Title: Re: News any day now!!!
Post by: THE_ANSWERS on 8 Sep 2008, 11:12 pm
Please take a moment and sign up for our newsletter.  We have one coming out very soon (this weekend?).  Here's the link:
http://www.digitalamp.com/news.htm


The newsletter went out today, so please send me a private message if you signed up but didn't receive it.  Thanks.


got your mass email.......       still pushing the amazon thing, huh????  i just dont get it
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 9 Sep 2008, 08:06 am
Tommy,

Can you elaborate on this:

Quote
This amplifier is also a "green" product since it consumes less than 30W when "quiet" and less than 5W in standby mode.

Is it better to:
     A) Leave the amp powered on 24/7 in "quiet" mode?
     B) Leave the amp powered on 24/7 and switch into standy mode when not listening?
     C) Power on/off for each listening session?

Some amps work fine powered on/off for each session, while others benefit from being left on. Where does your amp fit into this?

-jim



It's up to you and won't make a difference in the sound either way.  I usually leave them on all the time.  Standby is convenient for changing cables and such if you like to do that.  Some customers have said our amps sound best after a few minutes of warm up.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: jhm731 on 9 Sep 2008, 05:30 pm
Tommy or jhm731,
Can you post a clear picture of the front and rear? I can't get what it looks like from any online photos. Looks like a lot of LEDs on the front. Can they be shut off?
Thanks!!
Rich

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=60981)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=60982)
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: jman66 on 10 Sep 2008, 09:33 am
Tommy,

How does one operate the DAC4800A in bridged mode?

-jim
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: richidoo on 10 Sep 2008, 01:10 pm
Thanks for the pics jhm  :thumb:

Looking forward to reading your comments about its sound. :D
Rich
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 16 Sep 2008, 08:22 pm
Tommy,

How does one operate the DAC4800A in bridged mode?

-jim

Jim,

You need a "Y bridge cable" (XLR single female to XLR double male) to that has plus and minus straight into the first channel and reversed on the second channel.  We are planning to offer this on our site eventually, but we make them custom on request.  Thanks.

Best Regards,
Tommy
Title: DAC4800A on EBAY
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 19 Sep 2008, 04:27 am
Here's the listing:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120306419785

This is a NEW DAC4800A for less than half price.

Listing ends Sunday.  Thanks for taking a look.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: Niteshade on 19 Sep 2008, 09:47 pm
Hello- I agree 100% that it's difficult getting people to know you. This web site is a great place to be as you mentioned. The problem I have noticed is that people tend to look for what they know about and do not bother to look at new companies. I wish it wasn't that way because learning about new companies and products only enriches the shopping experience.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: satfrat on 19 Sep 2008, 11:25 pm
Hello- I agree 100% that it's difficult getting people to know you. This web site is a great place to be as you mentioned. The problem I have noticed is that people tend to look for what they know about and do not bother to look at new companies. I wish it wasn't that way because learning about new companies and products only enriches the shopping experience.

DAC4800A,, $3600 list price = $1602 Ebay opener price = $799 last Ebay sale price = $909 next to last Ebay sale price. I don't know about you but when I see varying prices such as this on a product, I'm not incline to look any further. That's just me and my perception of a company's credibility. Learning about new company's on the internet is not always an enriching experience,,,maybe you need to lose some money to figure that out. :lol: That said, having some AC members who's insights I trust would go along way into verifying the worth of DAC and this could happen a whole lot faster with a product tour as Lonewolf and others have already suggested. This is the best way for an unknown company to have their products discovered here on AC. Fluctuating Ebay prices ain't gonna cut it IMHO.

Other perceptions my vary,,,,, :D

Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: ooheadsoo on 20 Sep 2008, 01:46 am
I asked about this - the previously offered units were demos and in prototype chassis.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: satfrat on 20 Sep 2008, 01:55 am
I asked about this - the previously offered units were demos and in prototype chassis.

I remember, I've read this thread as it's progressed,, but they were all listed on EBAY in the exact same format as this latest auction. Nothing was mentioned in the other auctions about demos and in prototype chassis. They were all listed as new. Whatever, it doesn't change my perception. Just stating my opinion as many others already have, it doesn't need to mean anything other than to me. :D

Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mcullinan on 20 Sep 2008, 02:06 am
I asked about this - the previously offered units were demos and in prototype chassis.

I remember, I've read this thread as it's progressed,, but they were all listed on EBAY in the exact same format as this latest auction. Nothing was mentioned in the other auctions about demos and in prototype chassis. They were all listed as new. Whatever, it doesn't change my perception. Just stating my opinion as many others already have, it doesn't need to mean anything other than to me. :D

Cheers,
Robin
Stop THE Presses!!! This may be a first, but I 100 percent completely agree with Robin :)
hehe.
Mike
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: satfrat on 20 Sep 2008, 02:07 am
I asked about this - the previously offered units were demos and in prototype chassis.

I remember, I've read this thread as it's progressed,, but they were all listed on EBAY in the exact same format as this latest auction. Nothing was mentioned in the other auctions about demos and in prototype chassis. They were all listed as new. Whatever, it doesn't change my perception. Just stating my opinion as many others already have, it doesn't need to mean anything other than to me. :D

Cheers,
Robin
Stop THE Presses!!! This may be a first, but I 100 percent completely agree with Robin :)
hehe.
Mike


You complete me Mike. :kiss:
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: SET Man on 20 Sep 2008, 02:18 am
Hey!

   ooheadsoo and Robin, you two are wasting your time on this thread.  :roll:

   Why? Well, I've been observing this thread on and off since it first started. And frankly all I've seen on this thread and many other threads from AmpDesigner333 are just "Talk" but so far no "Walk"

    I didn't respond until now because I want to give him time to prove himself. But look at it... 1 months and 11 pages later still nothing have been said about the amp itself and the sound of the amp.

   As for the amp on eBay, check out the feedback and you will see that one sold for $799.99 with the same "Like New and etc"

   So, yes so far he is all about "Talk" but no "Walk" And looking in his site and see that he is in PA not that far from from us here in NY. If he was serious about doing the "Walk" he could have come to the Rave or send the amp to the Rave or to NYAR members. Keep in mind many manufacturers have done this with us NYAR group and some got great success more than others with a lot of feedbacks from real users.

   True that I'm not a fan of this type of amp but it is always good to hear new audio. But at this point I no longer interested in hear his amp at all.

    Anyway, AmpDesigner333 good luck with your amps. :D

Take care,
Buddy :thumb:
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mfsoa on 20 Sep 2008, 02:29 am
He has been invited to the October Rave and is excited about attending.

As far as letting one go on tour, I haven't heard but I expect we'll get to meet him and hear his amp(s) Oct 25.

-Mike
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: satfrat on 20 Sep 2008, 02:31 am
He has been invited to the October Rave and is excited about attending.

As far as letting one go on tour, I haven't heard but I expect we'll get to meet him and hear his amp(s) Oct 25.

-Mike

Where's that RAVE being held Mike?
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: SET Man on 20 Sep 2008, 02:43 am
He has been invited to the October Rave and is excited about attending.

As far as letting one go on tour, I haven't heard but I expect we'll get to meet him and hear his amp(s) Oct 25.

-Mike

Hey!

    Okay, maybe I've said too soon than, should have wait another month or two and after a few of his amps listed on eBay :D

    Let's see than I'm sure that many of you here want to see and hear his amp after all these talk :wink:

     BTW... Mike/mfsoa, I won't make it to your Rave again.  :cry:

Take care,
Buddy :thumb:
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: satfrat on 20 Sep 2008, 03:01 am
He has been invited to the October Rave and is excited about attending.

As far as letting one go on tour, I haven't heard but I expect we'll get to meet him and hear his amp(s) Oct 25.

-Mike

Hey!

    Okay, maybe I've said too soon than, should have wait another month or two and after a few of his amps listed on eBay :D

    Let's see than I'm sure that many of you here want to see and hear his amp after all these talk :wink:

     BTW... Mike/mfsoa, I won't make it to your Rave again.  :cry:

Take care,
Buddy :thumb:

Hey Mike, I just scoped out your last years RAVE thread and I'll be there! I now remember you telling me about them VSR VR4JR of yours at a past RAVE and I want to listen to them real bad. :drool: If DAC shows up with a DAC4800A and or Cherry amps, all the better. :thumb:

Cheers,
Robin
Title: D-Fence, D-Fence, D-Fence...
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 20 Sep 2008, 06:06 am
He has been invited to the October Rave and is excited about attending.

As far as letting one go on tour, I haven't heard but I expect we'll get to meet him and hear his amp(s) Oct 25.

-Mike

Hey!

    Okay, maybe I've said too soon than, should have wait another month or two and after a few of his amps listed on eBay :D

    Let's see than I'm sure that many of you here want to see and hear his amp after all these talk :wink:

     BTW... Mike/mfsoa, I won't make it to your Rave again.  :cry:

Take care,
Buddy :thumb:

Hey Mike, I just scoped out your last years RAVE thread and I'll be there! I now remember you telling me about them VSR VR4JR of yours at a past RAVE and I want to listen to them real bad. :drool: If DAC shows up with a DAC4800A and or Cherry amps, all the better. :thumb:

Cheers,
Robin

Robin / all,

OK, I'm back!  Pardon the brief lapse in "defending myself".

All you can do on a message board is talk, so why the "walk the walk" comment?  That's a rhetorical question.

We cater to customers, and we have a 30-day 100% money back guarantee.  If a potential customer can't afford to buy one to try one, they can't afford to buy one, period.

By the way, some new reviews here:
http://www.digitalamp.com/DAC_REVIEWS.htm

I'm waiting to hear more info about the October 25th rave (in NJ) and do plan to attend.  Not sure if I'll bring both models, but will try.

Thanks for reading this thread, and thanks for your interest.
Title: Re: D-Fence, D-Fence, D-Fence...
Post by: satfrat on 20 Sep 2008, 06:27 am
He has been invited to the October Rave and is excited about attending.

As far as letting one go on tour, I haven't heard but I expect we'll get to meet him and hear his amp(s) Oct 25.

-Mike

Hey!

    Okay, maybe I've said too soon than, should have wait another month or two and after a few of his amps listed on eBay :D

    Let's see than I'm sure that many of you here want to see and hear his amp after all these talk :wink:

     BTW... Mike/mfsoa, I won't make it to your Rave again.  :cry:

Take care,
Buddy :thumb:

Hey Mike, I just scoped out your last years RAVE thread and I'll be there! I now remember you telling me about them VSR VR4JR of yours at a past RAVE and I want to listen to them real bad. :drool: If DAC shows up with a DAC4800A and or Cherry amps, all the better. :thumb:

Cheers,
Robin

Robin / all,

OK, I'm back!  Pardon the brief lapse in "defending myself".

All you can do on a message board is talk, so why the "walk the walk" comment?  That's a rhetorical question.

We cater to customers, and we have a 30-day 100% money back guarantee.  If a potential customer can't afford to buy one to try one, they can't afford to buy one, period.

By the way, some new reviews here:
http://www.digitalamp.com/DAC_REVIEWS.htm

I'm waiting to hear more info about the October 25th rave (in NJ) and do plan to attend.  Not sure if I'll bring both models, but will try.

Thanks for reading this thread, and thanks for your interest.


http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=43029.0

Hi,
From Vermont, it's around a 4.5hr drive for me to Mike/mfsoa. If I can make the effort to attend Mike's october RAVE, I will hope that you will also. Affording your amp isn't the issue here and definitely shouldn't be made an issue for an unknown manufacturer. Exposure should be your issue and so far your only exposure at AudioCircle is from baseless talk as we have no credible DAC customers talking about yur product. You need to do some walking if you want some exposure. Your presence at a NY RAVE would be a step in the right direction as would a product tour. Forming a personal gathering of your own to introduce your amps (as is done by other area manufacturer's) is another idea to establish credibility.

If you want to continue your "we cater to customers only" stance, personally my perception of DAC won't be changing much. Maybe they'll be others that don't mind rolling the dice and pay shipping costs inorder to try an unknown amp,,,,, ya never know. :thumb:


Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: pbrstreetgang on 20 Sep 2008, 06:48 am
Ill be honest, The problem isnt really with credibility its with perceived value of the product. Nobody is shelling out the $3800 when things have shown it can be picked up for $1000. Its a sour taste in the same vein as cable pricing structure. Some products here sell for a bunch and are critically worth the asking, others such as some kits are extremely undervalued. Some others are meh, bring it over and Ill listen. In all these cases we know the justification of price and we determine what we like sonically. Its easy to swallow when you know a kit has 80% of its price in its cost of parts and the manufacturer spends time and effort to get it in front of us. Its wholly another when we know there is $300 bucks worth of B&O modules that many established companies are offering in many different packages and telling us its worth it if only we would pony up.

Not meaning to sound harsh, just as Im sure you didnt mean to sound condescending by suggesting the reason none of us havent had the privilege to hear your fine product because we are simply poor. The song remains the same and the solution is still simple.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: jhm731 on 20 Sep 2008, 07:52 am
I can't drive to a Rave in NY, NJ or Tommy's house in PA,  so I shelled out the shipping cost to try a DAC4800A on Tommy's 30-day 100% money back guarantee.

There aren't any "$300 bucks worth of B&O modules" in this amp. Anyone who's look at at the pictures on Tommy's website could tell you this.

If you're not "simple poor," and are in the market for a powerful, cool running amp, I suggest you contact Tommy and arrange for a 30 day trial.

Aloha,

Dan
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: pbrstreetgang on 20 Sep 2008, 08:49 am
And you are keeping it right?  aa
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: pbrstreetgang on 20 Sep 2008, 08:54 am

There aren't any "$300 bucks worth of B&O modules" in this amp. Anyone who's look at at the pictures on Tommy's website could tell you this.

If you're not "simple poor," and are in the market for a powerful, cool running amp, I suggest you contact Tommy and arrange for a 30 day trial.

Aloha,

Dan

No not really, I see it by what someone else posted on the first page, not on the very informative site. BTW any review or comparison to offer AC?

Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: satfrat on 20 Sep 2008, 05:03 pm

There aren't any "$300 bucks worth of B&O modules" in this amp. Anyone who's look at at the pictures on Tommy's website could tell you this.

If you're not "simple poor," and are in the market for a powerful, cool running amp, I suggest you contact Tommy and arrange for a 30 day trial.

Aloha,

Dan

No not really, I see it by what someone else posted on the first page, not on the very informative site. BTW any review or comparison to offer AC?



You took the words right out of my mouth. Afterall, jhm731 is the 1st AC're to have taken the plunge yet we've heard nothing from him but buy, buy, buy. A review of sorts would be nice, a comparsion with any other known amps would be better. Come on jhm731,,,, throw us dogs a bone will ya? :D

Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: jhm731 on 20 Sep 2008, 06:22 pm

There aren't any "$300 bucks worth of B&O modules" in this amp. Anyone who's look at at the pictures on Tommy's website could tell you this.

If you're not "simple poor," and are in the market for a powerful, cool running amp, I suggest you contact Tommy and arrange for a 30 day trial.

Aloha,

Dan

No not really, I see it by what someone else posted on the first page, not on the very informative site. BTW any review or comparison to offer AC?



You took the words right out of my mouth. Afterall, jhm731 is the 1st AC're to have taken the plunge yet we've heard nothing from him but buy, buy, buy. A review of sorts would be nice, a comparsion with any other known amps would be better. Come on jhm731,,,, throw us dogs a bone will ya? :D

Cheers,
Robin

No where in this thread have I said "buy, buy, buy."

I haven't posted any comments on the DAC4800A's sound quality because the only amp I have on hand for comparison, is my Aberdeen Signature TacT S2150, which no one on this website has heard, and I'm sure no one on this website has heard the Gradient Helsinki 1.5 speakers I'm using. Plus, I wanted to give it some burn-in time.

For the moment, all I'll say is I'm impressed enough to wonder what a pair of DAC 1000+ watt monos would do on the 1.5s.

Dan
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: satfrat on 20 Sep 2008, 06:31 pm
Thank you for your impressions jhm731, I look forward to any further comparisons that you might have in the future. :D

Cheers,
Robin
Title: NOT another Ice Power amp ! ! !
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 20 Sep 2008, 09:05 pm
Ill be honest, The problem isnt really with credibility its with perceived value of the product. Nobody is shelling out the $3800 when things have shown it can be picked up for $1000. Its a sour taste in the same vein as cable pricing structure. Some products here sell for a bunch and are critically worth the asking, others such as some kits are extremely undervalued. Some others are meh, bring it over and Ill listen. In all these cases we know the justification of price and we determine what we like sonically. Its easy to swallow when you know a kit has 80% of its price in its cost of parts and the manufacturer spends time and effort to get it in front of us. Its wholly another when we know there is $300 bucks worth of B&O modules that many established companies are offering in many different packages and telling us its worth it if only we would pony up.

Not meaning to sound harsh, just as Im sure you didnt mean to sound condescending by suggesting the reason none of us havent had the privilege to hear your fine product because we are simply poor. The song remains the same and the solution is still simple.

We do NOT make amps with Ice Power modules!  I replied recently to someone's "just another ice power amp" email comment.  It takes a lot more amp design experience (20+ years for me) to design high performance, high efficiency, high power amps from the ground up than to put off-the-shelf modules in a box with a power supply.  Something like 90% of the digital amps out there are like that, so we're special.  We designed the guts.  We build the guts.  We are the guts.

Digital Amplifier Company amps are built with proprietary patented technology that took more than 10 years to develop.  It's a novel approach to modulation and control that allows closer-to-the-rails output swing while holding noise down as far as 120dB from max output.  Really low THD is also possible with this technology, down to 0.0006% on the bench.

We are customer centric because we appreciate having the privilege of serving them.  They are the reason we exist, and there's nothing quite like having customers repeatedly tell you that your design is the best they have ever heard.  That makes all the hard work that goes into each amp well worth it.  Thanks again.
Title: Return Policy / Prices / Comments on AC
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 21 Sep 2008, 03:49 am
We received questions about our return policy recently.  Look for "Our Standard 30-day Money Back Guarantee" here (scroll down):
http://www.DigitalAmp.com/

Regarding prices, units were sold on EBay as demos, new, and refurb.  The price varies based on age and condition.  The one that's up now is NEW (less than a day left).

Regarding reviews or similar comments on AC, we have found that customers like to provide reviews ONCE.  We asked our subscribers to post here and on Amazon with very little response.  One customer explained that he didn't want to become involved in another message board.  He said that first posts are generally not taken seriously anyway.  Another customer said "feel free to copy my review there".  So, we expect that only customers that heard of us here will post reviews here.  Thanks as always!
Title: DAC4800A auction almost over
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 21 Sep 2008, 05:34 pm
Less than 2 hours left for the NEW DAC4800A on EBay.

Item #120306419785, or search for DAC4800A.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120306419785

Remember, there is a 30-day guarantee.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: 2bigears on 21 Sep 2008, 06:02 pm
:D  12 pages and still swing-in' a dead cat, :duh: please box one of your fine amps and send it to the NY,NY boys for a test run, then and only then, that dead cat will be free.....get it out-there into the world...... :D
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: JerryM on 21 Sep 2008, 06:06 pm
:D  12 pages and still swing-in' a dead cat, :duh: please box one of your fine amps and send it to the NY,NY boys for a test run, then and only then, that dead cat will be free.....get it out-there into the world...... :D

Hear, hear!!!   :lol:
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: 2bigears on 21 Sep 2008, 06:14 pm
 :D sorry bout' that,too much coffee   :thumb:
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 21 Sep 2008, 06:30 pm
:D sorry bout' that,too much coffee   :thumb:

No problem.  Our amps are already "out in the world" --- check the reviews on our site, and take a look at the specs.  How about buying one to try it out?
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: satfrat on 21 Sep 2008, 06:57 pm
:D sorry bout' that,too much coffee   :thumb:

No problem.  Our amps are already "out in the world" --- check the reviews on our site, and take a look at the specs.  How about buying one to try it out?


 :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse:
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: jman66 on 21 Sep 2008, 07:01 pm
:deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse:

Careful, PETA might get upset over all those poor horses  :)
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: 2bigears on 21 Sep 2008, 07:17 pm
 :D  please,your next post should ask what address to send the demo amp.end it at this,no more play-time my friend,get it done with your next post.please and thks :thumb:
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: satfrat on 21 Sep 2008, 07:21 pm
:D  please,your next post should ask what address to send the demo amp.end it at this,no more play-time my friend,get it done with your next post.please and thks :thumb:

Hmmmm, shouldn't that be GIT-R-DONE? :lol:
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: JerryM on 21 Sep 2008, 07:27 pm


Our amps are already "out in the world"

[/quote]

Obviously not. Or, at least in this instance, not nearly enough.

The amp listed at half-price went unpurchased without a single bid. Thus the dead cat. I can't imagine another amplifier manufacturer on this forum who would have a brand new amp, listed at half-price, go without having at least a bit of a bid frenzy.

Since you're hell bent for leather that an amp actually be purchased by AC members to eliminate the dead cat, how about an EBay run with no reserve price; i.e. let's see the true perceived value.

Given your 30 day guarantee, it makes no sense to me that you will not set one free for 30 days, as repeatedly suggested, for the feedback you so obviously desire. The cat clearly has at least one life left.

Clearly just MHO,

Jerry
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: jman66 on 21 Sep 2008, 07:39 pm
I can't imagine another amplifier manufacturer on this forum who would have a brand new amp, listed at half-price, go without having at least a bit of a bid frenzy.

That comment is way off base.
The manufacturers that participate on this message board are already known, have a product history and user base.
DAC does not and that's what Tom is trying to change. I perceive Tom as the consumate engineer without perhaps the business, not marketing savvy.  MHO also.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: art on 21 Sep 2008, 07:58 pm
Dude......

The only way that you are going to put this to rest is to send out a few for these guys to listen to. Yeah, I know.............30 days, blah, blah, blah.

All of us small companies have these same problems getting recognition for a new product. Even when you have been around for a long time. Unfamiliarity does not help, and throwing things up on eBay may work for other business models, but it doesn't work here.

Or haven't you grasped that yet?

Ok, just my opinion, but we have been doing this longer than you have. I guess I could be a horse's butt, and watch a potential competitor fail, but in the long run that doesn't really help any of us.

Send an amp to a couple of these AC get-togethers. The rest of us have. If they like it, you will be in good shape. If not.........well, welcome to running your own business.


BTW, we don't have any marketing types here, either. We did, but not now. In any case, learn from those who have gone on before you. It wouldn't hurt. I know, engineers don't like to hear that sort of stuff. One of the most important lessons that I learned about this business is that the customers are not anything like us. If they were, they would be building their own gear and trying to start their own company.

Obviously, they are not. Listen to what they are telling you, and stop trying to run it through your engineer's perspective.

OK, last word and free advice on this subject from me. I am un-subscribing to this thread. You are now on your own. Good luck.

Pat
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: JerryM on 21 Sep 2008, 08:06 pm
I can't imagine another amplifier manufacturer on this forum who would have a brand new amp, listed at half-price, go without having at least a bit of a bid frenzy.

That comment is way off base.
The manufacturers that participate on this message board are already known, have a product history and user base.
DAC does not and that's what Tom is trying to change. I perceive Tom as the consumate engineer without perhaps the business, not marketing savvy.  MHO also.

I don't think my comment is off base. In fact, I'll use your point to support my own.

If DAC wants to be known amongst AC, the users have said time and again how to accomplish that. A short, 30 day tour would establish some history and user base of the members herein. Outside of the repeated requests for this to take place, it seems like a bit of a hard-sell. Literally.
Your point as to the manufacturers here is well taken. It is my point as well. It does not take much marketing ability to come to the same conclusion, does it?  :thumb:

You can lead a horse to water...
Jerry
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mcullinan on 21 Sep 2008, 08:17 pm
Yes as my friend Oh so eloquently stated before...
 :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse:
Mike
Title: Who would you recommend?
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 21 Sep 2008, 10:30 pm
We would like to get feedback from a RELIABLE, recognized source.  Who is best to do this?

We are planning to attend an "audio rave" in October.

This stuff takes time.  I can't fault the frustration of those who are kind enough to provide advice, especially the ones with similar company experiences.  Thanks, even to the "dead horse" guy.
Title: Re: Who would you recommend?
Post by: JerryM on 21 Sep 2008, 10:42 pm
We would like to get feedback from a RELIABLE, recognized source.  Who is best to do this?

I apologize in advance for the volunteerism.  :wink:

As you asked, my vote is for lonewolfny42. I am exceptionally confident he will know what to do.

As for marketing, Nike comes to mind. Just Do It.

Jerry
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: ooheadsoo on 21 Sep 2008, 11:03 pm
I agree - Lonewolfny42 and the NYAR are your best bet on audiocircle.  Lonewolf's SP Tech Timepieces should take all the power you can give it, for a true full capacity test.  The GAS group also seems to get a lot of word of mouth spread around quickly.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mca on 22 Sep 2008, 12:35 am
Perhaps this was asked on one of the pages, but are you planning to attend RMAF? I know a lot of people from this forum will be attending and that would be a good way to get a listen.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: THE_ANSWERS on 22 Sep 2008, 01:55 pm
well..........  i started here due to this topic becuase my friend who moved away years ago had a dac amp and i thought  " hey i bet im one of the few people out there that has actually heard or seen one"    i was right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   not much has changed



after reading all the comments,    and lots of useless junk,   i don't know any more now except that d.a.c.,   that name still confuses me,   is tryig to be different by selling in strange ways like ebay and amazon.    i said before thats dumb and now other members finally chime in that they think the same.   its like nobody listened to me    sometimes people write stuff just to hear themselves talk  .....or to see themselves type


:roll:

Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: woodsyi on 22 Sep 2008, 02:38 pm
Amp D333,

I suggest you attend the next Rave and leave the amp to do a tour.  Most of the time, quick impression is about all you can get of a gear in a big social gathering.  You really need a week or so to get a good sense of the gear.  I would leave the amp with the host and schedule a review tour.  Most reviewers will be glad to pay the forwarding shipping charge, I think.  I am interested. 

P.S.  Chris, sending the RAVE CD with the amp on the tour (if there is one) would be nice.  Then everyone can comment on the same tracks. 
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: lonewolfny42 on 22 Sep 2008, 04:25 pm
Amp D333,

I suggest you attend the next Rave and leave the amp to do a tour.  Most of the time, quick impression is about all you can get of a gear in a big social gathering.  You really need a week or so to get a good sense of the gear.  I would leave the amp with the host and schedule a review tour.  Most reviewers will be glad to pay the forwarding shipping charge, I think.  I am interested. 

P.S.  Chris, sending the RAVE CD with the amp on the tour (if there is one) would be nice.  Then everyone can comment on the same tracks. 

That's a good idea Rim.... :thumb:

This coming Saturday (9/27) is the next Rave at topround's/Mike's in Ramsey, N.J.

I've read that Tommy and his amp may attend the Oct. Rave...but if he moves it up to the Sept. Rave, it can be "home auditioned" by the Raver's living close to topround's (in their systems) as well.
And there are quiet a few in that local ....as well as a pro reviewer (friend of topround's).
It can then he delivered to the Oct. Rave to make another appearance....with more photo's and comments.

So....all in all....two Rave's...photo's....Raver home audition comments... I think that would give most a good handle on how this amp performs....and no more beating the horse... :deadhorse:   :lol:

I will alert topround to this thread.....good luck. :thumb:

                             Chris
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: richidoo on 22 Sep 2008, 04:43 pm
Our group in NC gets together about every 6 weeks. I would be happy to host a tour stop for DAC.

Don't forget Tommy still has that $900 prototype which I think (still waiting for PM response) has the current spec DAC4800 circuit in the older chassis. I'm tempted to try it, but I don't want the old version. Someone else might though...
Title: Rave in Ramsey, NJ Sept 27th
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 22 Sep 2008, 06:26 pm
Amp D333,

I suggest you attend the next Rave and leave the amp to do a tour.  Most of the time, quick impression is about all you can get of a gear in a big social gathering.  You really need a week or so to get a good sense of the gear.  I would leave the amp with the host and schedule a review tour.  Most reviewers will be glad to pay the forwarding shipping charge, I think.  I am interested. 

P.S.  Chris, sending the RAVE CD with the amp on the tour (if there is one) would be nice.  Then everyone can comment on the same tracks. 

That's a good idea Rim.... :thumb:

This coming Saturday (9/27) is the next Rave at topround's/Mike's in Ramsey, N.J.

I've read that Tommy and his amp may attend the Oct. Rave...but if he moves it up to the Sept. Rave, it can be "home auditioned" by the Raver's living close to topround's (in their systems) as well.
And there are quiet a few in that local ....as well as a pro reviewer (friend of topround's).
It can then he delivered to the Oct. Rave to make another appearance....with more photo's and comments.

So....all in all....two Rave's...photo's....Raver home audition comments... I think that would give most a good handle on how this amp performs....and no more beating the horse... :deadhorse:   :lol:

I will alert topround to this thread.....good luck. :thumb:

                             Chris


I asked Mike with a PM, but didn't hear back.  Where can I get EXACT info about the one this weekend in Ramsey, NJ.  We'd like to go!  Thanks.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mcullinan on 22 Sep 2008, 06:33 pm
AmpD333,
PM topround its his rave this month.
Mike
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 22 Sep 2008, 09:04 pm
AmpD333,
PM topround its his rave this month.
Mike

I contacted him and read through the NYAR Sept 08 thread.  I hope there are some BIG speakers there...  Thanks.
Title: Audio Review Still Hasn't Responded
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 26 Sep 2008, 02:13 am
We tried twice to add the DAC4800A amplifier (see http://www.digitalamp.com/4800a_amp1.htm) to Audio Review so we can get customers to add reviews there. However, there is no selection for adding a new manufacturer. The listing shows up with "unknown" as the manufacturer. Here's the link:
http://www.audioreview.com/cat/amplification/amplifiers/unknown/dac4800a/PRD_419903_1583crx.aspx

We wrote to them, but no reply. We posted to the help board, but the post was removed. We just asked again through the "contact us" link, but we're not holding our breath.

Does anyone here in Audio Circle know somebody in charge at Audio Review? We would like to get on the manufacturers list. Locking us out is just not fair. Thanks.
Title: NYAR September 27th Rave
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 28 Sep 2008, 01:57 am
I attended the NYAR rave today and played both a DAC4800A demo with the standard transformer and a DAC4800A premium (not available on the website yet) with a 1500W transformer.  It was great to meet everyone!  Please post any comments on the sound here.  Next stop, the October rave in NJ (Phillipsburg, I think).  Thanks everybody, especially Mike for hosting.

Best Regards,
Tommy
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: satfrat on 28 Sep 2008, 03:01 am
Well I for 1 won't be flogging the horse anymore. :lol: It's always a pleasure to meet an audio manufacturer. At the last RAVE @ Jims I got to meet Vinnie Rossi of Red Wine Audio and today at Mike's RAVE I met Tom of Digital Amplifier Company. Tommy's amps are the real deal with lots of potential. I particuliarly liked Tommy's Cherry amp in Mikes system. Crystal clear audio, maybe a little too much so when connected with Tommy's DAC w/volume control. Myself I loved it. :thumb: When we replaced Tommy's DAC with Mike's Mapletree tube preamp, things definitely mellowed out and that sounded pretty damn nice also with Mike's Audio Physic Virgo loudspeakers which also impressed the hell outta me.
 (http://www.stereophile.com/images/archivesart/virgooic1.jpg)

I will be looking forward to hearing the Cherry amp at next month's RAVE when connected to a set of VSR VR4JR loudspeakers. I've always wanted to hear a set of Von Schweikert Loudspeakers and having Tommy's Cherry amp should make for a nice listening session. :drool:

Thanks for going out of your way so's to allow us to hear your amps Tommy. :thumb:

Cheers,
Robin

Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: Mariusz on 28 Sep 2008, 04:32 am
Tommy

thanks for opportunity to listen to your gear. Since I am a "tube" guy, my opinion is less then valuable but.......they (amps) did sound very nice. Definitely worth looking into if a lots of clean power is needed.
Chris and his SP Minis could be one of the candidates to match with Tommy's amps.  :scratch:
 Also, I would imagine that Maggies or SoundLabs could benefited from these beasts.

Cheers
Mariusz  :thumb:
Title: New Name for DAC???
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 28 Sep 2008, 05:18 am
OK, we're now taking suggestions on the new name for DAC.

Already mentioned was DACO (mine), DA, and DAD.  Since our web site is "Digital Amp"...

By the way, 333 was the PA lottery number tonight.  Thanks again to Mike and everyone.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: lonewolfny42 on 28 Sep 2008, 05:31 am
Quote
By the way, 333 was the PA lottery number tonight.

$0.50 Straight bet pays $250.00 .....hope you placed a bet.  :hyper:

Thanks for attending the Rave Tommy....your two amps did sound good....the addition of a tube preamp, in this case Mike's Mapletree, did add to the enjoyment.

Looking forward to hearing them again in October.  8)

Quote
OK, we're now taking suggestions on the new name for DAC.

Good idea..... :wink:

                                Chris

Title: Power Conditioning with the DAC4800A and Cherry
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 1 Oct 2008, 02:14 am
Taken from the NYAR thread today...

Quick question about the DAC amp...was it being run thru a power conditioner?  I find that most Class D amps have some problems sounding a bit brash/harsh without it...

The DAC4800A and Cherry are designed to tolerate large AC mains fluctuations so you shouldn't need any line conditioning (save some money there).  In fact, there were several instances when the lights dimmed at Mike's, so there might have been a few brief brown outs, and the DAC4800A played through them without any noticeable effect.

Mike, I plugged into the large outlet strip.  Was that fed with a conditioner?  If so, what type?

I'm looking forward to playing the DAC4800A and probably a Cherry (sorry we were sold out) at the other Mike's house in October...  Thanks.
Title: Re: Power Conditioning with the DAC4800A and Cherry
Post by: satfrat on 1 Oct 2008, 02:18 am
Taken from the NYAR thread today...

Quick question about the DAC amp...was it being run thru a power conditioner?  I find that most Class D amps have some problems sounding a bit brash/harsh without it...

The DAC4800A and Cherry are designed to tolerate large AC mains fluctuations so you shouldn't need any line conditioning (save some money there).  In fact, there were several instances when the lights dimmed at Mike's, so there might have been a few brief brown outs, and the DAC4800A played through them without any noticeable effect.

Mike, I plugged into the large outlet strip.  Was that fed with a conditioner?  If so, what type?

I'm looking forward to playing the DAC4800A and probably a Cherry (sorry we were sold out) at the other Mike's house in October...  Thanks.


No conditioner at Mikes, that power strip was a Niam approved strip tho, I use the same strip as an extension out of my BPT. I would be interested to hear your amps thru a good power conditioner tho. You might be surprised Tommy. :D

Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Power Conditioning with the DAC4800A and Cherry
Post by: jhm731 on 1 Oct 2008, 03:01 am
Taken from the NYAR thread today...

Quick question about the DAC amp...was it being run thru a power conditioner?  I find that most Class D amps have some problems sounding a bit brash/harsh without it...

The DAC4800A and Cherry are designed to tolerate large AC mains fluctuations so you shouldn't need any line conditioning (save some money there).  In fact, there were several instances when the lights dimmed at Mike's, so there might have been a few brief brown outs, and the DAC4800A played through them without any noticeable effect.

Mike, I plugged into the large outlet strip.  Was that fed with a conditioner?  If so, what type?

I'm looking forward to playing the DAC4800A and probably a Cherry (sorry we were sold out) at the other Mike's house in October...  Thanks.


No conditioner at Mikes, that power strip was a Niam approved strip tho, I use the same strip as an extension out of my BPT. I would be interested to hear your amps thru a good power conditioner tho. You might be surprised Tommy. :D

Cheers,
Robin

I had the DAC4800A plugged into a RSA Duke and it didn't make any difference.

From what I can see, the DAC4800A has an AC line filter similar to the "Felix."

Title: Re: Power Conditioning with the DAC4800A and Cherry
Post by: satfrat on 1 Oct 2008, 03:24 am
Taken from the NYAR thread today...

Quick question about the DAC amp...was it being run thru a power conditioner?  I find that most Class D amps have some problems sounding a bit brash/harsh without it...

The DAC4800A and Cherry are designed to tolerate large AC mains fluctuations so you shouldn't need any line conditioning (save some money there).  In fact, there were several instances when the lights dimmed at Mike's, so there might have been a few brief brown outs, and the DAC4800A played through them without any noticeable effect.

Mike, I plugged into the large outlet strip.  Was that fed with a conditioner?  If so, what type?

I'm looking forward to playing the DAC4800A and probably a Cherry (sorry we were sold out) at the other Mike's house in October...  Thanks.


No conditioner at Mikes, that power strip was a Niam approved strip tho, I use the same strip as an extension out of my BPT. I would be interested to hear your amps thru a good power conditioner tho. You might be surprised Tommy. :D

Cheers,
Robin

I had the DAC4800A plugged into a RSA Duke and it didn't make any difference.

From what I can see, the DAC4800A has an AC line filter similar to the "Felix."



Really,,,, now that would be a first and definitely a step all manufacturers should take a look at. Bet Occam would be interested in taking a look at that line filter. :D

Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: Occam on 1 Oct 2008, 05:35 am
I like to look at any and all line filters, which is really a sad comment on my life......  :lol:

As I've said previously, power conditioning ideally should be incorporated into each component, sized and designed for that specific component. When all is said and done, power conditioning, including my own, is an older, known technology, but still, much of the efficacy depends upon the choice of components, some of which, frankly does not correlate well with accepted engineering. When asked why this filter subjectively is prefferable to another (barring difference in filtration characteristics), I can only respond 'its the goober dust' I had thought about some nonsense about a vision quest, communing with the spirits of Maxwell, Tesla and Edison, but frankly, that simply stuck me as being too far over the top, if not downright ludicrious.

Title: Re: Power Conditioning with the DAC4800A and Cherry
Post by: jhm731 on 1 Oct 2008, 05:47 am
Taken from the NYAR thread today...

Quick question about the DAC amp...was it being run thru a power conditioner?  I find that most Class D amps have some problems sounding a bit brash/harsh without it...

The DAC4800A and Cherry are designed to tolerate large AC mains fluctuations so you shouldn't need any line conditioning (save some money there).  In fact, there were several instances when the lights dimmed at Mike's, so there might have been a few brief brown outs, and the DAC4800A played through them without any noticeable effect.

Mike, I plugged into the large outlet strip.  Was that fed with a conditioner?  If so, what type?

I'm looking forward to playing the DAC4800A and probably a Cherry (sorry we were sold out) at the other Mike's house in October...  Thanks.


No conditioner at Mikes, that power strip was a Niam approved strip tho, I use the same strip as an extension out of my BPT. I would be interested to hear your amps thru a good power conditioner tho. You might be surprised Tommy. :D

Cheers,
Robin

I had the DAC4800A plugged into a RSA Duke and it didn't make any difference.

From what I can see, the DAC4800A has an AC line filter similar to the "Felix."



Really,,,, now that would be a first and definitely a step all manufacturers should take a look at. Bet Occam would be interested in taking a look at that line filter. :D

Cheers,
Robin

Not a first. All of the digital amps and SMPS PSUs I've seen have AC line filters. Some use off the shelf filters, and some like the DAC4800A and Aberdeen units use higher quality components.

Title: Hardly Used DAC4800A Available
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 3 Oct 2008, 12:59 am
We have a DAC4800A amp available now that was used only for a few weeks.  It's in perfect condition and was fully re-tested.  We are willing to sell it for cheap to good home (of an AC member)!  Let me know if you're interested.
Title: SMPS versus Linear Power Supply
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 6 Oct 2008, 10:47 pm
We were asked to address this issue by a customer.  The question is...

"Why go with a linear supply instead of a switching supply?"

Well, the reason is simple.  An SMPS (Switch Mode Power Supply) that can output enough power to drive a DAC4800A (or Cherry) amplifier and handle the dynamic current variations at max power would to be very expensive.  In fact, just the SMPS might cost more than the entire amplifier does now, including the linear supply.  Despite the higher cost of linear power supply materials, a good SMPS design meant for driving a very high performance amp requires brute force techniques that make "standard" SMPS designs impractical.  Linear power supplies have some nice characteristics for driving amplifiers, such as a natural "soft dive" to their output voltage when heavily loaded.  Replicating this in an SMPS design is usually not practical.  There are also issues with the output ripple of a switching supply interacting with the output ripple of a switching amplifier...
Title: Slew Rate of DAC4800A and Cherry
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 9 Oct 2008, 03:09 am
This is another topic we are asked about frequently... The DAC4800A and Cherry amplifiers are "switching amps", so technically, the internal slew rate is that of the output stage (about 7200V/uS). The output filter of the amp removes the switching wave and yields an output slew rate of about 20V/uS (with an 8 ohm load). This is a respectable number, but keep in mind that it is limited by the output filter and increases as load impedance goes down.

The frequency response goes up to 60KHz on the DAC4800A and Cherry amps. This is a more valuable number than slew rate to many.

The sound of these amps can't be summed up with measurements (even though they are excellent) since they are designed from the ground up to deliver the best in music reproduction, not just test results in a lab. Comments welcome.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: jman66 on 9 Oct 2008, 09:14 am
Tommy,

So, using a <= 4 ohm speaker would result in a higher slew rate. What are the sonic implications of this, if any?

-jim
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 10 Oct 2008, 04:54 am
Tommy,

So, using a <= 4 ohm speaker would result in a higher slew rate. What are the sonic implications of this, if any?

-jim

None.  This is more than adequate for any practical audio source.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Hardly Used DAC4800A Available
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 13 Oct 2008, 05:16 am
We have a DAC4800A amp available now that was used only for a few weeks.  It's in perfect condition and was fully re-tested.  We are willing to sell it for cheap to good home (of an AC member)!  Let me know if you're interested.


This amp has been sold.  Thanks.
Title: Oct 2008 NYAR
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 21 Oct 2008, 10:28 pm
I plan to be at the rave:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=60190.new#new

-Tommy
Title: Re: Hardly Used DAC4800A Available
Post by: THE_ANSWERS on 23 Oct 2008, 03:06 pm
We have a DAC4800A amp available now that was used only for a few weeks.  It's in perfect condition and was fully re-tested.  We are willing to sell it for cheap to good home (of an AC member)!  Let me know if you're interested.


This amp has been sold.  Thanks.

havent heard much here lately.......  are u still selling these days?       i know times are a little tough in general,,,,   maybe you have inventory you want to "unload"?????     sorry i wasn't to nice before but still think you should consider dealers or at least sell online fr the "real price" if you know what i mean!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: THE_ANSWERS on 23 Oct 2008, 03:46 pm
Due to limited production, we encourage you to purchase at least one of these amazing amps TODAY!  Limit three units per customer.

These are priced at $6000.00 each.

I better get my order in now  :wink:

this is what I'm talkin about!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: miklorsmith on 23 Oct 2008, 03:48 pm
You are an unkind person.  Your communication skills are also abominable.  You should quit thinking you have all the answers and take some classes on human interaction.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: satfrat on 23 Oct 2008, 03:50 pm
You are an unkind person.  Your communication skills are also abominable.

x2 THE_ANSWERS w/o a clue,,,,, :scratch: :lol:
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: THE_ANSWERS on 23 Oct 2008, 04:13 pm
You are an unkind person.  Your communication skills are also abominable.

x2 THE_ANSWERS w/o a clue,,,,, :scratch: :lol:

it a little fustrating to me since i heard the dac amp years ago and even complimented this guy on the product but then i commented on his sales and markting with a few suggestions....    seems I was mostly ignored.     about my comm skill I TYPE FAST, SO WHAT?????   see, there are caps for you in case youre going to point that out too

i'm an audio lover and dont like to spend lots of money on it mainly because i don't think it necessary and there are a lot of scams out there

when you see a company saying how they save so much money by no advertising and selling only direct you might think "great deal", but the prices are so high there's no way id buy something like that....  you call that mean?????????????
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mcullinan on 23 Oct 2008, 04:18 pm
Answers... you dont speak English that well... and there are ways to approach matters and  you are practically disabled because of the language barrier. Like when I say" You are gay!" Do I mean you are enjoying the intimate company of another man, or do I mean you are a happy go lucky kind of guy.
Exactly.
Now you see.
Mike aa
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: satfrat on 23 Oct 2008, 04:21 pm
You are an unkind person.  Your communication skills are also abominable.

x2 THE_ANSWERS w/o a clue,,,,, :scratch: :lol:

it a little fustrating to me since i heard the dac amp years ago and even complimented this guy on the product but then i commented on his sales and markting with a few suggestions....    seems I was mostly ignored.     about my comm skill I TYPE FAST, SO WHAT?????   see, there are caps for you in case youre going to point that out too

i'm an audio lover and dont like to spend lots of money on it mainly because i don't think it necessary and there are a lot of scams out there

when you see a company saying how they save so much money by no advertising and selling only direct you might think "great deal", but the prices are so high there's no way id buy something like that....  you call that mean?????????????


You've made this same point numerous times already in this thread. Your continued prodding simply makes you look like an A$$hole. :roll:

You've had your say, what else is there to say? :scratch:

Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: miklorsmith on 23 Oct 2008, 04:23 pm
First of all, you're not clear with your message.  What are you actually trying to say?  Next, HOW you present questions/opinions has as much to do with your azzhole perception as what you're asking/saying at the core.  You come across like an uneducated jackass more than happy to espouse your opinion of everything and anything, i.e. THE ANSWERS.  Sheesh.

If the product in question doesn't work for you just don't buy it.  Lots of stuff doesn't work for lots of folks.  I don't go around asking Wilson speakers why dont theyy get of t her e  dumb ASSES amds mak a hi-eficency swpekr cuz thats whut i LIKE.

They have a business model, pricing strategy, R&D costs that have to be defrayed, a whole universe really that you are not part of and not entitled to know about.  Most companies wouldn't give a forum like this the time of day.  They owe you literally NOTHING.  Get over it.

And, learn how to mak wurds so peepl cn unde r s  tand youu its hard to rwead youre crapy riting.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mcullinan on 23 Oct 2008, 06:10 pm
First of all, you're not clear with your message.  What are you actually trying to say?  Next, HOW you present questions/opinions has as much to do with your azzhole perception as what you're asking/saying at the core.  You come across like an uneducated jackass more than happy to espouse your opinion of everything and anything, i.e. THE ANSWERS.  Sheesh.

If the product in question doesn't work for you just don't buy it.  Lots of stuff doesn't work for lots of folks.  I don't go around asking Wilson speakers why dont theyy get of t her e  dumb ASSES amds mak a hi-eficency swpekr cuz thats whut i LIKE.

They have a business model, pricing strategy, R&D costs that have to be defrayed, a whole universe really that you are not part of and not entitled to know about.  Most companies wouldn't give a forum like this the time of day.  They owe you literally NOTHING.  Get over it.

And, learn how to mak wurds so peepl cn unde r s  tand youu its hard to rwead youre crapy riting.
Amen.
M
Title: an offer / regarding comments from and reaction to "THE_ANSWERS"
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 23 Oct 2008, 10:42 pm
Hi, folks.

We feel it's not necessary to bicker when receiving complaints about our marketing or prices.  We are truly doing our best to provide a fine product as inexpensive as we can, within reason.  Replying directly may be seen as justifying the unproductive commentary.  Thanks to those who respect the work we do, and to those that don't, please refrain from the mud slinging.

For the next two weeks, we'd like to offer a HUGE (seriously) discount to Audio Circle members.  Send me a PM if you are interested.  We have stock.  This is our "take advantage of the slow economy" special.

Best Regards,
Tommy
Title: Re: an offer / regarding comments from and reaction to "THE_ANSWERS"
Post by: THE_ANSWERS on 24 Oct 2008, 12:58 am
Hi, folks.

We feel it's not necessary to bicker when receiving complaints about our marketing or prices.  We are truly doing our best to provide a fine product as inexpensive as we can, within reason.  Replying directly may be seen as justifying the unproductive commentary.  Thanks to those who respect the work we do, and to those that don't, please refrain from the mud slinging.

For the next two weeks, we'd like to offer a HUGE (seriously) discount to Audio Circle members.  Send me a PM if you are interested.  We have stock.  This is our "take advantage of the slow economy" special.

Best Regards,
Tommy


no harm intended......  i think the crowd here was harsh but what do you expect!!!!!!!!   the slow economy special may be a good idea,,,, is it direct?
Title: Re: an offer / regarding comments from and reaction to "THE_ANSWERS"
Post by: satfrat on 24 Oct 2008, 01:07 am
Hi, folks.

We feel it's not necessary to bicker when receiving complaints about our marketing or prices.  We are truly doing our best to provide a fine product as inexpensive as we can, within reason.  Replying directly may be seen as justifying the unproductive commentary.  Thanks to those who respect the work we do, and to those that don't, please refrain from the mud slinging.

For the next two weeks, we'd like to offer a HUGE (seriously) discount to Audio Circle members.  Send me a PM if you are interested.  We have stock.  This is our "take advantage of the slow economy" special.

Best Regards,
Tommy


no harm intended......  i think the crowd here was harsh but what do you expect!!!!!!!!   the slow economy special may be a good idea,,,, is it direct?


You still don't have a clue NO_ANSWERS but what do you expect!!!!!!!! :lol:

I look forward to hearing your Cherry this weekend amp Tommy, either with the VSR's or the B&W's. :thumb: It'll be a 5hr drive for me & my pup. Should be a good time. :thumb:

Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: an offer / regarding comments from and reaction to "THE_ANSWERS"
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 24 Oct 2008, 03:33 am
Hi, folks.

We feel it's not necessary to bicker when receiving complaints about our marketing or prices.  We are truly doing our best to provide a fine product as inexpensive as we can, within reason.  Replying directly may be seen as justifying the unproductive commentary.  Thanks to those who respect the work we do, and to those that don't, please refrain from the mud slinging.

For the next two weeks, we'd like to offer a HUGE (seriously) discount to Audio Circle members.  Send me a PM if you are interested.  We have stock.  This is our "take advantage of the slow economy" special.

Best Regards,
Tommy


no harm intended......  i think the crowd here was harsh but what do you expect!!!!!!!!   the slow economy special may be a good idea,,,, is it direct?


You still don't have a clue NO_ANSWERS but what do you expect!!!!!!!! :lol:

I look forward to hearing your Cherry this weekend amp Tommy, either with the VSR's or the B&W's. :thumb: It'll be a 5hr drive for me & my pup. Should be a good time. :thumb:

Cheers,
Robin

Robin,

Good to hear from you!  I'm amazed that you are traveling so far again for the October event.  Thanks to Mike for hosting!  At least you have a sweet ride to drive down...

The Cherry I'm bringing (assuming all goes well) will be referred to as the "Cherry PLUS" since it has an improved transformer (even bigger, with hum killer ring), better output inductors, and bigger reservoir caps.  We are planning to test this monster on the bench tomorrow.  You'll LOVE it!

Looking forward to it!  Thanks as always.

Warm Regards,
Tommy
Title: Re: DAC4800A
Post by: jman66 on 24 Oct 2008, 09:19 am

with hum killer ring

Tommy,

Any chance that this "hum killer ring" could be adapted to the DAC4800A? Thanks!

-jim
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mcullinan on 24 Oct 2008, 02:09 pm
HEy! No dogs better be lickin my DAC... hmm that sounds.... obscene?
Mike
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: satfrat on 24 Oct 2008, 04:03 pm
HEy! No dogs better be lickin my DAC... hmm that sounds.... obscene?
Mike

That's the 1st thing my Bandit goes for Mike, he'll unmake your day.  :lol:
Title: Re: DAC4800A
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 24 Oct 2008, 06:38 pm

with hum killer ring

Tommy,

Any chance that this "hum killer ring" could be adapted to the DAC4800A? Thanks!

-jim

Jim,

I had samples made for the DAC4800A and Cherry.  The band (ring) is inside the transformer wrap, and I'm not too sure how well it works yet.  In any case, it probably wouldn't work as well outside the wrap.  Maybe when we order a bunch of new transformers, I can upgrade yours.  Unfortunately, they are significantly more expensive.  Are you going to the rave tomorrow?

Best Regards,
Tommy
Title: October NYAR --- some impressions of the Cherry Amp
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 27 Oct 2008, 03:13 am
Check out this thread:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=60190.msg544548;topicseen#new

The Cherry amp was played on three different speaker systems this time...

Just a reminder, we're still offering a special deal for AC members, just send a PM to find out more.  Thanks to Mike and Sharon, the awesome hosts of this rave.  Mike has the Cherry amp now.
Title: Re: DAC4800A
Post by: Occam on 27 Oct 2008, 03:52 am

with hum killer ring

Tommy,

Any chance that this "hum killer ring" could be adapted to the DAC4800A? Thanks!

-jim

Jim,

I had samples made for the DAC4800A and Cherry.  The band (ring) is inside the transformer wrap, and I'm not too sure how well it works yet.  In any case, it probably wouldn't work as well outside the wrap.  Maybe when we order a bunch of new transformers, I can upgrade yours.  Unfortunately, they are significantly more expensive.  Are you going to the rave tomorrow?

Best Regards,
Tommy

Tommy,

It sounds like what you are describing is a gossband (grain oriented silicon steel band) that is effective against EMI in the plane of the toriod. A toroids planar EMI is already relatively small, but in cases where component are mounted closely a gossband can minimize that type of induced hum. It would work equally well when mounted outside the transformers wrap. But if the hum is actually emanating from the transformer itself, a gossband isn't going to change it.  Typically that is caused by either a poorly wound, or undersized core, or dc offset on the mains itself.

FWIW,
Paul
Title: Isabella with Cherry Amp at NYAR
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 28 Oct 2008, 02:17 am
We heard the Red Wine Isabella unit drive the Cherry amp this weekend at NYAR, and it's an awesome match!  Any comments about this setup versus the others (like the VAC pre)?  Thanks.

Regards,
Tommy
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: Mariusz on 28 Oct 2008, 03:21 am
Hi Tommy,
this is the Isabella guy.
Few comments about Cherry amp:
* despite my mixed feeling during the September Rave at Mike's place (hard to beat the cheer-leading and commotion to really listen might have been one of the reasons as well as random and unpredicted component matching) I was kind of looking forward to another audition of Cherry amp. I promised myself to give it a serious though and actually try to listen to this newcomer.

* after the Rave , I came to conclusion that Cherry is indeed special and synergistic with few components which we had on hand during a second encounter/introduction. These were:
SP Minis and RWA Isabella preamp. For whatever reason, this combination was IMO - stellar. Given the unpredictable circumstances, room acoustics ( actually lock of it ) etc, the Minis sounded better then ever. Cherry brought the best in those little buggers and Isabella was just icing on the cake. I have to say though, that with introduction of tube preamp Cherry really opened up and its almost sterile, brute power, took Isabella's warmish presentation and present the music reproduction qualities which I can definitely relate to.

Latter.....when used in bi-amp mode with VAC amp on top to drive Mike's main rig with VR4 Jr, It also improve on already good sound. Proving itself to be very competitive contender in the World of Hi End electronics.

* It should be carefully match to ensure proper integration/synergy with one's components.

*at the end, highly recommended and definitely worth looking into. :drool:

Thanks Tommy for opportunity to hear your amp again and participating in our humble NY Raves.  :thumb:

Wish you all the best  :wink:

Mariusz
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: satfrat on 28 Oct 2008, 03:31 am
Hi Tommy,
this is the Isabella guy.
Few comments about Cherry amp:
* despite my mixed feeling during the September Rave at Mike's place (hard to beat the cheer-leading and commotion to really listen might have been one of the reasons as well as random and unpredicted component matching) I was kind of looking forward to another audition of Cherry amp. I promised myself to give it a serious though and actually try to listen to this newcomer.

* after the Rave , I came to conclusion that Cherry is indeed special and synergistic with few components which we had on hand during a second encounter/introduction. These were:
SP Minis and RWA Isabella preamp. For whatever reason, this combination was IMO - stellar. Given the unpredictable circumstances, room acoustics ( actually lock of it ) etc, the Minis sounded better then ever. Cherry brought the best in those little buggers and Isabella was just icing on the cake. I have to say though, that with introduction of tube preamp Cherry really opened up and its almost sterile, brute power, took Isabella's warmish presentation and present the music reproduction qualities which I can definitely relate to.

Latter.....when used in bi-amp mode with VAC amp on top to drive Mike's main rig with VR4 Jr, It also improve on already good sound. Proving itself to be very competitive contender in the World of Hi End electronics.

* It should be carefully match to ensure proper integration/synergy with one's components.

*at the end, highly recommended and definitely worth looking into. :drool:

Thanks Tommy for opportunity to hear your amp again and participating in our humble NY Raves.  :thumb:

Wish you all the best  :wink:

Mariusz

What Mariusz said  aa,,,,,,, you are the real deal Tommy and so is the Cherry.  :thumb:

Cheers,
Robin

Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mfsoa on 28 Oct 2008, 01:59 pm
Hi Everyone,
For those who aren't watching the October Rave thread, I'll catch you up and put some impressions here:
Tommy was kind enough to leave his Cherry amp at my place and I've putting some good miles on it. He can give you more details on this specific unit.  Right now the setup is:
Rotel CD >(Reality IC)> VAC pre >(Reality IC/RCA to XLR adapters)> Cherry > (Reality SCs) > SPTech minis.

Tommy I got to tell you the difference in sound between the simple AC cord and the Black Sand Silver Ref V is stunning - you gotta come hear this. I don't know if you've ever played with AC cords before but when you hear this you'll see...  I also preferred the Reality ICs w/ the adapters to the balanced cables you brought - We can check this out too - I think your balanced cables were a little lean compared to the Realities, which are fast and detailed but not etched at all.

The Minis sound very very good right now. The combo of the DAC amp/BlackSand cord with a tubed pre is working really well, as the DAC did with the Isabella pre in the other room at the Rave.

I guess these comments are vs. my VAC amp, since that's my best frame of reference-

The DAC amp throws a huge soundstage, very precise and more upfront than the VAC. This was the first thing that grabbed me when it was switched on.
Its overall presentation is one of cleanliness, which when matched to the wrong front-end and speakers (a pro dac directly into the amp w/ B&W 805s) sounded downright icy and painful at volume. The DAC liked the more full-bodied SP Minis and now twice has played really well with tubed preamps here.

Bass-wise of course the qualities of the DAC play into the hand of the Minis - These speakers love to be lifted up and thrown around a room by an amp and then come back for more. The DAC amp has excellent bass control and definition which the Minis are eating up.  I compared the DAC vs. a 600 watt Sunfire for use on the woofers of the VR4s and the DAC was far superior in bass dynamics, control and pitch definition.

But... There is still something I prefer about the upper mids to very highs on the VAC. I felt it a bit more detailed and nuanced than what the DAC amp was giving me. That 'ole tube glow, ya' know?

-Mike
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mcullinan on 28 Oct 2008, 02:12 pm
They sound similar in sound to the Bel Cantos.. They were missing the detail in the mids... to highs that the Nuforce have in spades. Not clinical detail either. The Bel Cantos sounded awesome, just smoothed over some of the musical info.

Mike do you have power conditioning on the cherry? That should take away the top end weirdness you are experiencing. The VAC pre which I have heard should be a Perfect match for any digital amp imho.
Mike
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mfsoa on 28 Oct 2008, 02:39 pm
I stole this from some reviewer but it fits - The DAC amp as well as the Rotel ICE amps I've heard have a slight chrome tinge to the highs. If this is accentuated you'll hear it as we did on the 805s. The Minis were far more tolerant of this and the positives of soundstaging, bass control and overall cleanliness and transparency of the DAC amp really work with the Minis.

The Minis are singing like noone heard them at the Rave - Really something wonderful.

Mike, based on the differences I heard in the powercords I wouldn't be suprised if conditioning would also make a big change. I haven't tried it yet - Didn't want to choke it (that's your job (he he))

Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: lonewolfny42 on 28 Oct 2008, 02:49 pm
Quote
Bass-wise of course the qualities of the DAC play into the hand of the Minis - These speakers love to be lifted up and thrown around a room by an amp and then come back for more.

.........Lets ROCK.. :rock:  :lol: (got a sound level meter Mike?)

Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mcullinan on 28 Oct 2008, 03:12 pm
I would choke it any chance you get. Find a dark corner and place the choke hold upon it... the erm amps I mean.
Mike  :lol:
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: satfrat on 28 Oct 2008, 05:02 pm
Just for S&G,I hope you'll try the Cherry with power conditioning. I am surprised to hear that you feel the VAC has more detail in the mids/highs than the Cherry(Jim/Hogg said the same thing to me with the Cherry/Isabella/Mini setup,,,, you tube guys :lol:) as it's that full spectrum detail that I've heard to be the Cherry's strong suit,,, and way to much so when matched up with Tommy's pro dac w/volume control. I heard a more fleshed out but softer mid/high with the VAC myself but that was 1st impression along with numerous beers & munches. :lol: i do know that I'd love to compare your VAC with my Butler's which have a nice little blue glow of their own. aa

Please keep these updates acomin' Mike, love to hear about what you're hearing. :thumb:

Cheers,
Robin
Title: the offer...
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 29 Oct 2008, 04:30 am
Hi, folks.

We feel it's not necessary to bicker when receiving complaints about our marketing or prices.  We are truly doing our best to provide a fine product as inexpensive as we can, within reason.  Replying directly may be seen as justifying the unproductive commentary.  Thanks to those who respect the work we do, and to those that don't, please refrain from the mud slinging.

For the next two weeks, we'd like to offer a HUGE (seriously) discount to Audio Circle members.  Send me a PM if you are interested.  We have stock.  This is our "take advantage of the slow economy" special.

Best Regards,
Tommy


Thanks to all who provided comments regarding the Cherry amp at the October NYAR meet!  Keep them coming.

You know, I also brought a DAC4800A demo unit, but the Cherry was hooked up almost constantly (three different speaker systems), so I didn't get greedy.

Just to remind everyone, we have a few units in stock that we'll sell to AC members at an AMAZING discount.  The offer ends on the 6th, so send a PM if you're interested ASAP.  We recommend a tube pre with balanced outputs, but these amps will do well with just about any pre, SS or tube, balanced or RCA, and into just about any speakers.  Thanks again and as always.

Best Regards,
Tommy
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: jhm731 on 29 Oct 2008, 06:28 am
Plugging the DAC4800A, I tested into a power conditioner (RSA Duke) didn't alter it's SQ.

I never tried the stock power cord, I used the same Supra LoRads I use on my Tact amps.

I returned the DAC4800A, and received a wiki wiki refund.

Mahalo Tommy.

Aloha,

Dan



Title: our recent offer
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 3 Nov 2008, 01:20 pm
3 days left...
Send a PM if you are interested.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mcullinan on 3 Nov 2008, 02:04 pm
Plugging the DAC4800A, I tested into a power conditioner (RSA Duke) didn't alter it's SQ.

I never tried the stock power cord, I used the same Supra LoRads I use on my Tact amps.

I returned the DAC4800A, and received a wiki wiki refund.

Mahalo Tommy.

Aloha,

Dan


No Mike should choke it not you.
Hes a professional choker.
Mike
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: jimdgoulding on 3 Nov 2008, 02:20 pm
Superb thread, gents.  The combination of equipment at the rave was cutting edge and the results being reported have me salivating.  As Mike is still at it I hope he will continue keeping us informed.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mcullinan on 3 Nov 2008, 02:39 pm
Whats the going price of the cherry?
Mike
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: THE_ANSWERS on 4 Nov 2008, 09:13 pm
Whats the going price of the cherry?
Mike

i send a pm and didnt hear back about price -------curious
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mcullinan on 4 Nov 2008, 09:31 pm
Whats the going price of the cherry?
Mike

i send a pm and didnt hear back about price -------curious

Or is it?
M
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 6 Nov 2008, 07:05 am
Whats the going price of the cherry?
Mike

i send a pm and didnt hear back about price -------curious

Or is it?
M

I sent you a private message with the price.  Did you get it?

The unit that was at the October rave might go up for sale someday, so let me know if you are interested.  That make some time to check/re-test.

Tomorrow is the last day for the special deal.
Title: Wiki wiki ???
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 6 Nov 2008, 09:19 pm
Plugging the DAC4800A, I tested into a power conditioner (RSA Duke) didn't alter it's SQ.

I never tried the stock power cord, I used the same Supra LoRads I use on my Tact amps.

I returned the DAC4800A, and received a wiki wiki refund.

Mahalo Tommy.

Aloha,

Dan





For those not in the "Hawaii know", wiki wiki means extra fast.
We never had a DAC4800A come back before!  Dan bought the amp to try it out more or less and made some pretty good suggestions for future modifications.  We then sold it after retesting at a discount.
There's a cool picture that Dan took earlier in this thread...
Title: new deal!
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 14 Nov 2008, 02:56 am
Check this out...
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=61631.msg551901;topicseen#new
Title: Is the high-end market dead?
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 19 Nov 2008, 11:06 am
After offering a 66.6% discount through the end of the month, we have received a lack-luster response!  This is despite great products, great reviews, and even great exposure.  How do we explain this?  Well, we think the market is in a holding pattern due to economic issues.  We hope to see this as a passing phase, and wish all audiophiles the best as we plow throught the mud.  Fortunately, we have invested in parts and assemblies enough to build some inventory for quick delivery.  Thanks as always...
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: lonewolfny42 on 21 Nov 2008, 10:05 am
Tommy....
 
Here's the link for Mike's review of your Cherry amp...some may not have seen it. :wink:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=61748.0
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 22 Nov 2008, 12:06 am
Tommy....
 
Here's the link for Mike's review of your Cherry amp...some may not have seen it. :wink:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=61748.0

Thanks.  Some new comments on the "new" 66.6% off thread, which was moved:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=61890.msg555282;topicseen#new
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 22 Nov 2008, 07:07 pm
Whats the going price of the cherry?
Mike

Now $2K until the end of the month.
Have you read any of the reviews?
Thanks, Mike.

-Tommy
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: CSI on 22 Nov 2008, 09:07 pm
Whats the going price of the cherry?
Mike

Now $2K until the end of the month.
Have you read any of the reviews?
Thanks, Mike.

-Tommy

Hi Tommy,

I sent an email through your website yesterday but didn't get a reply. Are you saying the Cherry is available to ACer's for $2K through November? What about the DAC4800?
Thanks,
CSI
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: opnly bafld on 22 Nov 2008, 10:11 pm
What about the DAC4800?


$1200
Title: Special Deal Almost Over
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 25 Nov 2008, 09:08 pm
Only 5 more days on the 1/3 price deal...

Just a reminder.

Thanks, all.

Regards,
Tommy
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 28 Nov 2008, 05:22 pm
Last weekend for the deal...
Title: Amazon deal too
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 30 Nov 2008, 04:13 am
For those of you who haven't seen the 66.6% off thread:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=61890.msg558459;topicseen#new

Info just put up about the Amazon DAC4800A and Cherry deals, plus a link.

People are buying stuff.  Maybe we're not a "country of whiners" after all.  We wish everybody great holiday shopping!  Hey, where's that thread about the economy?  Can someone post a link, please?
Title: End of year SPECIAL ! ! !
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 17 Dec 2008, 11:33 am
We're planning a special for our newsletter subscribers only...

Please sign up if you haven't already:
http://www.digitalamp.com/news.htm

By the way, we have a DAC4800A demo unit available, too.  Thanks.

-Tommy
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: CSI on 20 Dec 2008, 06:51 pm
Cherry amp impressions..

I received my Cherry amp a few days ago and wanted to post a few early reactions. I will try to follow up with more in depth comments in a few weeks after I have lived with it for a good period of time.

First, the amp is dead quiet. It is also much better looking than I thought it would be. The pictures really don't do it justice - the deep cherry color of the faceplate is very pleasing.

My early impressions of the sound:
No problems at all. A tremendous sense of power, particularly in the bass. One of the first things I noticed was a somewhat cleaner and more extended treble than I'm used to. This is a good thing in my system (ACI Sapphires, passive preamp, small deadish room). Perhaps related to this is a surprising improvement in PRAT over any of my previous amps. Toe tapping and head bobbing started very quickly. The Cherry also has an amazing sound stage and imaging. This is true even when listening well off axis and it is not subtle. I am also hearing an across the board improvement in detail. This is not a "fingers squeaking on the strings" sort of thing so much as an enhanced ability to pick out and follow each member of a well recorded jazz combo. The old analogy of someone cleaning the window is apt. I would say this amplifier is well worth hearing and should be compared with the best you can come up with.

UPDATE...
After two weeks of listening it is hard to add anything to the above. I'm just tempted to go back and underline everything already said. Here is a musical example: Kenny Barron and Regina Carter have a great duo album (Freefall). Carter's violin sound is resiny and forward. This can translate into "steely" through some amps. With the Cherry you can hear and feel the instrument. It is right there, with no edginess. Very much like hearing her perform live. When Barron solos on "Softly.." she carries the melody in the background (there are no other sidemen). On some systems her background playing can sound almost like an annoying bee. With the Cherry in the system you can ignore the piano if you want and just listen to her amazing tone and control. No droning at all. As for Barron, he reminds me that in the hands of some great jazz players the piano is a percussion instrument. With the Cherry in place you not only hear the chords, you feel them. (And, no offense, but listen to this album to understand the difference between "smooth" jazz and the real thing). Enough said. If this kind of presentation appeals to you, try a Cherry. It could be too much of a good thing in some systems so take that as a caution. This is not the amp of choice for gentle  background music. It won't let you ignore the music. I haven't yet had the chance to hear it with a tube preamp which could be the magic combo as suggested by Mike.

Bill
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: jman66 on 20 Dec 2008, 07:11 pm
CSI, perfect, succinct impression of the Cherry amp.
I've been trying to word my experience of the DAC4800A and what you've said about the Cherry also applies to the 4800A. I have the DAC4800A driving Maggie 1.6s, Bryston BDA-1 as the source feed by a Squezebox Duet. I was using a Jeff Rowland Capri preamp but recently sold it and I'm on the search for a new pre.

-jim
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: satfrat on 20 Dec 2008, 07:14 pm

Cherry amp impressions..

I received my Cherry amp a few days ago and wanted to post a few early reactions. I will try to follow up with more in depth comments in a few weeks after I have lived with it for a good period of time.

First, the amp is dead quiet. It is also much better looking than I thought it would be. The pictures really don't do it justice - the deep cherry color of the faceplate is very pleasing.

My early impressions of the sound:
No problems at all. A tremendous sense of power, particularly in the bass. One of the first things I noticed was a somewhat cleaner and more extended treble than I'm used to. This is a good thing in my system (ACI Sapphires, passive preamp, small deadish room). Perhaps related to this is a surprising improvement in PRAT over any of my previous amps. Toe tapping and head bobbing started very quickly. The Cherry also has an amazing sound stage and imaging. This is true even when listening well off axis and it is not subtle. I am also hearing an across the board improvement in detail. This is not a "fingers squeaking on the strings" sort of thing so much as an enhanced ability to pick out and follow each member of a well recorded jazz combo. The old analogy of someone cleaning the window is apt. I would say this amplifier is well worth hearing and should be compared with the best you can come up with.

What are you using for a passive pre, cabling and what's your source? Just curious as I've always felt the digital amp can be fatiguing on the highs with anything other than tube preamps( too much of a good thing, tube pre's mellow things out). But then again I've never heard it with a passive pre so that could be an ideal match. Thanks.

Cheers,
Robin

Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: CSI on 21 Dec 2008, 12:28 am

My passive is the Channel Islands Audio PLC.1. I've had several passives over the years and this is the only one that seems to be truly "invisible". The Cherry is sensitive to cables. Of the AC cords I have on hand I'm getting the best results with a Signal Magic. All other audio cabling is DH Labs Air Matrix and Q-10. I started out with all Audience Conductor but the DH Labs works better which really surprised me since I would have predicted the opposite. Go figure. DAC's are TADAC (sweet and mellow) and CIA (more revealing). Both sound great. More impressions after the holidays. Secondary source is Rhapsody streaming via Sonos. Main source is a Qsonix Server. If you read the professional reviews it is said to have the same sonic performance (through an external DAC as above) as the Sooloos but at a much lower cost (see my post after the Qsonix press release in this circle).

I'd love to try a tube pre someday. So far there is nothing at all fatiguing about the sound (in my system anyway) but it is several degrees more involving than with some of the more laid back amps I've used recently.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mfsoa on 21 Dec 2008, 04:05 pm
Hi there CSI and Jman,
Glad to see you are pleased with your DAC amps, and I'm not the only one touting their virtues arond here  :thumb:

My impressions, after 3 weeks with a Cherry (loaned - not purchased/auditioned and returned) very much mirror yours.

Incredible dynamics yet no strain  :scratch:

Class D efficiency and power without glare  :scratch:

Breathtaking imaging precision yet emotionally involving  :scratch:

Superb bass controll and airy highs  :scratch:

The ICE and UcD solutions I've tried have not been able to pull off these balancing acts.

Very wide soundstage - much more so than my VAC amp (One of the Ravers commented that w/ the DAC in place of the VAC, he was now able to easily hear the R speaker from the L side of the room, while he could not at all w/ the VAC, whatever that indicates)

CSI - I used a good tube pre in front of the Cherry and they got along really well - Maybe if you can borrow one it'd be a worthwhile learning experience one way or the other.

And yes, changes to power cords made a difference, can't say if it was more or less so than other amps, but different it was.

Keep us posted if you don't mind

-Mike



Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: orientalexpress on 21 Dec 2008, 05:26 pm
i really like this amp with my revalation.it's sound exactly how u guys describe it.i was wondering since tommy built this amp .Can He's separated the power supply from the amp.like Naim does their?maybe That will take this amp to another level. aa


lapsan
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: jhm731 on 21 Dec 2008, 05:52 pm
i really like this amp with my revalation.it's sound exactly how u guys describe it.i was wondering since tommy built this amp .Can He's separated the power supply from the amp.like Naim does their?maybe That will take this amp to another level. aa


lapsan

What will take this amp design to another level, are mono versions that put out over 1000 watts into 8 ohms. I suggested this to Tommy when I had the DAC4800A here for evalution.

BTW- IMO, the DAC4800A is a better sounding amp than the AVA Insight 440H, I recently tested (see review: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=62866.0)
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mfsoa on 21 Dec 2008, 06:52 pm
Quote
i really like this amp with my revalation.it's sound exactly how u guys describe it.i was wondering since tommy built this amp .Can He's separated the power supply from the amp.like Naim does their?maybe That will take this amp to another level.

I hope I'm not spilling any beans Tommy doesn't want spilled, but I've had the pleasure of talking amps for several hours with him - I have almost no technical abilities re electronic designs so he brings 100% of that to the table, but I have been an audiophile for decades and largely because of AudioCircle and the NYAudioRave my interest has really peaked in the last few years, so I've been able to bring some of the "tweako audiophile" perspective to Tommy, I hope. (had the great pleasure of blowing his mind with the sound of a power cord change!  :thumb:)

We've discusssed something that's either in his head or maybe he's done some work on it, but it sounds cool - Target is an ultra high perf design - Separate power supply as lapsan suggests, which would leave the actual amp part really small and able to maybe be speaker-mounted w/ really short cables. But the cool part is that the power supplies could be either battery-based, switching, or transformer based (forget which of the last two Tommy said would be for max power - I guess the latter, with the switcher maybe for best efficiency and weight?). Anyway, sorry Tommy if I misspoke, but this concept seems just what laspan suggested, and w/ the battery wrinkle I couldn't keep it in  :lol:


Quote
What will take this amp design to another level, are mono versions that put out over 1000 watts into 8 ohms. I suggested this to Tommy when I had the DAC4800A here for evalution.

BTW- IMO, the DAC4800A is a better sounding amp than the AVA Insight 440H, I recently tested.

AFAIK the amps are bridgeable for the power you seek, but I know that's not really mono. But I had another idea - "Mono" amps that are two-channel for vertical bi-amping. So, each amp would have a single input but that would get split into two channels, so the bass can use the 90+% (?) of the power supply that it needs in one chanel, and the treble can use the bit that it needs from the single power supply w/out being bothered by the demands of the bass. Separate speaker jacks of course.
Just a thought...

And since I've already blapped more than I should :oops: I can tell you guys that he is intimately familiar with the operation of the UcD and ICE modules, and feels absolutely confidant that his designs are superior in both theory and implementation. This may not mean much coming from him if it was ad copy, but this is what I asked him point blank in person. Is it true? I don't have the tech knowledge to know, but I wanted to give you some idea of what Tommy is about and what he's shooting for here.

Tommy - Hope I didn't blather too much or give away your shoe size- just giving my $0.02, FWIW.

-Mike
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: jhm731 on 21 Dec 2008, 09:14 pm

AFAIK the amps are bridgeable for the power you seek, but I know that's not really mono. But I had another idea - "Mono" amps that are two-channel for vertical bi-amping. So, each amp would have a single input but that would get split into two channels, so the bass can use the 90+% (?) of the power supply that it needs in one chanel, and the treble can use the bit that it needs from the single power supply w/out being bothered by the demands of the bass. Separate speaker jacks of course.
Just a thought...

-Mike

First, a two channel amp ain't mono.

How does your "Mono" know what frequency to split the signal at?

Unless there's a crossover inside your "Mono" that can be set by the users to match their speakers, both channels will draw the same amount of current from the power supply.

The only amp I know of that shares a common power supply and has user programmable crossovers is the BOZ 216/2200.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mfsoa on 21 Dec 2008, 10:01 pm
Quote
First, a two channel amp ain't mono
  Hence the quotes around "Mono"

Each of the 2 channels in the amp would receive the same info (either the L or R output from a preamp) so in that sense it would be mono, in addition you'd need two of the VBA (vertical biamp) amps for stereo operation so that's kinda mono too  - It would be up to the biwire-ready speaker's internal crossover (or an external crossover before the amp I guess) to select what frequencies go where. This way the "side" of the amp doing the upper frequencies would be relieved of putting out the bass since the mid/tweeter never asked for any bass. I don't think the bass and mid/tweets (separate channels of the VBA amp)  would draw the same power from the power supply - Does a tweeter crossover really dissipate the perhaps hundreds of watts that its corresponding woofer turns into mechanical energy? I think that the power sent to the woofer is never sent to the tweeter in the first place (the voltage would be), but I've seen this argued over before.

Didn't ever say it was actually a good idea did I?  :lol:

Happy holidays!  :thumb:

-Mike

-Mike
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: jhm731 on 21 Dec 2008, 11:13 pm
Didn't ever say it was actually a good idea did I?  :lol:

I agree it's not a good idea.

Unless there's a crossover before or inside your "Mono" amp both channels will get a full range signal, draw the same amount of current from the power supply, output a full range signal on both channnels and the speaker's crossover
will have to dissipate the wasted power sent to the mid/tweets.

Mele Kalikimaka!


Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: opnly bafld on 21 Dec 2008, 11:38 pm
Didn't ever say it was actually a good idea did I?  :lol:

I agree it's not a good idea.



At times, in certain setups it can be very beneficial and yes vertical biamping is mono.

Lin
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mfsoa on 22 Dec 2008, 02:46 am
Given a conventional biwire-ready speaker w/ internal crossovers biwired to a single amp tap, the tweeter/mid aren't drawing the same power that the woofer is (I'm pretty sure). The crossovers see the same voltage, but the drivers don't see the same power. Otherwise if you biamped with lets say a 400 watt amp on the woofer portion, you would need the same 400 watts for the tweeter, which is not the case. When biwiring, the tweeter is probably using fractions of a watt even though it is connected to the same thing the woofer is. The crossover doesn't dissipate the extra energy, it simply never asks for that energy to be sent to its drivers. (Again, I think this is the way to think of it, please 'splain it better to me if you can :thumb:).  I can't imagine the heat that would be cooped up in a little mid/tweeter cabinet if the crossover actually had to dissipate that much energy  :nono:

Therefore, in a stereo amp w/ one transformer used for vertical biamping, the majority of the power would be available for the bass and the treble would use very little. The channel that produces the treble would then have a much easier task of things, which I could certainly see resulting an an improvement in sound. Therefore in my theoretical VBA amp that uses only 1 input for both the L and R channels (actually, bass and treble channels), you can vertical biamp a 2 ch stereo with a single pair of interconnects, making this a possibility for people with only 1 pr of preamp outs, or freeing up a pair for some other use if the pre has 2 pr of outputs.

See, not so bad an idea after all  :thumb:

-Mike

Title: New amps on the way?
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 22 Dec 2008, 08:54 am
Given a conventional biwire-ready speaker w/ internal crossovers biwired to a single amp tap, the tweeter/mid aren't drawing the same power that the woofer is (I'm pretty sure). The crossovers see the same voltage, but the drivers don't see the same power. Otherwise if you biamped with lets say a 400 watt amp on the woofer portion, you would need the same 400 watts for the tweeter, which is not the case. When biwiring, the tweeter is probably using fractions of a watt even though it is connected to the same thing the woofer is. The crossover doesn't dissipate the extra energy, it simply never asks for that energy to be sent to its drivers. (Again, I think this is the way to think of it, please 'splain it better to me if you can :thumb:).  I can't imagine the heat that would be cooped up in a little mid/tweeter cabinet if the crossover actually had to dissipate that much energy  :nono:

Therefore, in a stereo amp w/ one transformer used for vertical biamping, the majority of the power would be available for the bass and the treble would use very little. The channel that produces the treble would then have a much easier task of things, which I could certainly see resulting an an improvement in sound. Therefore in my theoretical VBA amp that uses only 1 input for both the L and R channels (actually, bass and treble channels), you can vertical biamp a 2 ch stereo with a single pair of interconnects, making this a possibility for people with only 1 pr of preamp outs, or freeing up a pair for some other use if the pre has 2 pr of outputs.

See, not so bad an idea after all  :thumb:

-Mike



Bi-amping --- better than passive xover, but ultimate is active crossover...

Yes, Mike, you spilled the beans.  There is a behind-the-scenes design going on, very active now.  However, the power output is expected to be less than the DAC4800A.

For BIG power, we suggest bridged DAC4800A or Cherry, at 1000W and 1200W into 8 ohms respectively (one channel per amp).  They are internally and externally bridge-able already.  We sold a few pairs for this reason.  Thanks, all, for the comps, and Happy Holidays.  Oh yeah, p.s. we're going to send out a special end-of-year subscriber-only offer, so sign up for the Digital Amp newsletter if you want to get the email.

Warm Regards,
Tommy
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: jman66 on 22 Dec 2008, 01:20 pm

My passive is the Channel Islands Audio PLC.1....


I'm curious to learn how a passive attenuator could work assuming the input Z on the Cherry is very low as is the DAC4800A?


-jim
Title: More on bi-amping
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 29 Dec 2008, 07:33 pm
Didn't ever say it was actually a good idea did I?  :lol:

I agree it's not a good idea.

Unless there's a crossover before or inside your "Mono" amp both channels will get a full range signal, draw the same amount of current from the power supply, output a full range signal on both channnels and the speaker's crossover
will have to dissipate the wasted power sent to the mid/tweets.

Mele Kalikimaka!




Actually, typical crossovers will NOT load the amp across the band.  For instance, the simplest of crossovers is merely an inductor or cap in series with the driver.  A cap to reject lows or an inductor to reject highs.  In this simple example, the amp is not loaded with bass if it only drives the tweeter through a cap --- even if the input to the amp has lots of bass.  The advantage of driving a high frequency element, even though a crossover, directly with a separate amp is that there is definitely a smaller power requirement than full range.  Mike's idea is not new, and definitely not bad.

By the way, some fancier crossovers try to look as resistive as possible to make them easier to drive and that can add load farther out from the drivers range.  Now, somewhere, I have info on spectral content for specific music tracks...  Using that info, it's possible to determine high/low bi-amping power requirements.  It certainly varies based on content (or genre).

Happy New Year to all.
Title: more on using a passive pre
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 29 Dec 2008, 10:08 pm

My passive is the Channel Islands Audio PLC.1....


I'm curious to learn how a passive attenuator could work assuming the input Z on the Cherry is very low as is the DAC4800A?


-jim

Jim,

The balanced inputs on the Cherry have the same electrical characteristics as the DAC4800A --- about 10K impedance from + to -...

Most sources have adequately low output impedance for a passive pre to work just fine.  The question becomes about output level...
   Rated power for DAC4800A (clipping into 8 ohms):
      one ch driven --- 380W --- 2.36Vin
      both ch driven --- 330W --- 2.20Vin
   Rated power for Cherry (clipping into 8 ohms):
      one ch driven --- 400W --- 2.42Vin
      both ch driven --- 380W --- 2.36Vin

Hope you are well, and thanks for the post.

BR,
Tommy
Title: matching gain
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 30 Dec 2008, 04:15 am
Didn't ever say it was actually a good idea did I?  :lol:

I agree it's not a good idea.

Unless there's a crossover before or inside your "Mono" amp both channels will get a full range signal, draw the same amount of current from the power supply, output a full range signal on both channnels and the speaker's crossover
will have to dissipate the wasted power sent to the mid/tweets.

Mele Kalikimaka!




Actually, typical crossovers will NOT load the amp across the band.  For instance, the simplest of crossovers is merely an inductor or cap in series with the driver.  A cap to reject lows or an inductor to reject highs.  In this simple example, the amp is not loaded with bass if it only drives the tweeter through a cap --- even if the input to the amp has lots of bass.  The advantage of driving a high frequency element, even though a crossover, directly with a separate amp is that there is definitely a smaller power requirement than full range.  Mike's idea is not new, and definitely not bad.

By the way, some fancier crossovers try to look as resistive as possible to make them easier to drive and that can add load farther out from the drivers range.  Now, somewhere, I have info on spectral content for specific music tracks...  Using that info, it's possible to determine high/low bi-amping power requirements.  It certainly varies based on content (or genre).

Happy New Year to all.


Before I forget...  For bi-amping to work correctly, the amplifier power can be different for high/low, but the gain should be the SAME (matched) for high/low.  Also, there is another advantage to having, say, a 10/90 power ratio between high/low.  The "high amp" can be made with much smaller heat sinks and maybe even faster output devices (especially with digital or Class-D amps) on the lower power channel that you can't get away with on the lows.  This is even true when the same rails (voltages) are used for both amps.  By the way, Mike has me thinking quite a bit about this idea now...  Hmmmmmm...
Title: Special Offer for DAC Newsletter Subscribers Only
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 31 Dec 2008, 01:46 am
The email went out this morning, so if you didn't get it, please send a message to DACSales@DigitalAmp.com.  My PM box is 99% full, so please don't use that.  Thanks, all.

BR,
Tommy
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: NewBuyer on 11 Jan 2009, 07:03 am
Tommy, perhaps you can please answer this question, which I know for a fact is scaring away a few potential buyers of these new switching technology amps.

I have been hearing some rumor lately, that some of these new types of switching amps can have high enough switching-frequencies and voltages, that they can thus actually produce and emit some low-level x-ray radiation.  Is this potentially correct, even in theory?

I realize this is a weird question, but I don't like to settle for anecdotal information - I'd rather ask an expert (you) for a detailed reply.

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 11 Jan 2009, 07:47 pm
Tommy, perhaps you can please answer this question, which I know for a fact is scaring away a few potential buyers of these new switching technology amps.

I have been hearing some rumor lately, that some of these new types of switching amps can have high enough switching-frequencies and voltages, that they can thus actually produce and emit some low-level x-ray radiation.  Is this potentially correct, even in theory?

I realize this is a weird question, but I don't like to settle for anecdotal information - I'd rather ask an expert (you) for a detailed reply.

Thanks in advance.

Switching amplifiers emit a small amount of EMR at frequencies from 100KHz to 10MHz just like any switching power supply you might find in your house.  No X-RAY radiation (30 petahertz to 30 exahertz)!  Thanks for the post.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: rpm on 20 Jan 2009, 11:00 pm
X-Ray radiation...  lol.

Switching power supply technology is no where near that fast yet.

When you see the first petahertz CPU let me know though...  I will sacrifice my fertility for a PC that quick!
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: NewBuyer on 25 Jan 2009, 08:09 am
...Switching amplifiers emit a small amount of EMR at frequencies from 100KHz to 10MHz just like any switching power supply you might find in your house.  No X-RAY radiation (30 petahertz to 30 exahertz)!  Thanks for the post.

Thanks Tommy! :)  I am glad to have a chance, to ask an expert about that new rumor.  I wonder how it got started - you might be surprised to know how many people are believing/spreading this rumor, that these new types of powerful switching amplifiers emit small amounts of low-level radiation that are actually dangerous with long-term exposure in the household.

As follow-ups please: In the emission frequency range you specified, can you say approximately what amount of EMI your amps (and to your knowledge, other manufacturers' switching amps) actually do emit?  Is there any possibility (even remote) of any health impact or danger, from long term exposure to these emissions at close ranges? :?:

Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: cab on 25 Jan 2009, 02:10 pm

And since I've already blapped more than I should :oops: I can tell you guys that he is intimately familiar with the operation of the UcD and ICE modules, and feels absolutely confidant that his designs are superior in both theory and implementation.

Would very much like to hear how exactly his designs better the UcD in theory and implementation....
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: Audiovista on 25 Jan 2009, 10:16 pm


As follow-ups please: In the emission frequency range you specified, can you say approximately what amount of EMI your amps (and to your knowledge, other manufacturers' switching amps) actually do emit?  Is there any possibility (even remote) of any health impact or danger, from long term exposure to these emissions at close ranges? :?:



Tommy will answer for his products specifically - I'll just post some general info...

Class D amplifiers, along with ANY electronic component having oscillator operating above 9kHz, MUST comply with FCC imposed emission limits in the frequency range of 450kHz to 1GHz (450kHz to 30MHz for conducted emissions and 30MHz-1GHz for radiated emissions). In Europe, limit is 150kHz-1GHz (and 30MHz is a crossover between conducted and radiated emissions). This is for UNINTENDED radiators, not for radio stations, cell phones, etc. In practice, most switchmode power supplies and class D amps radiate in 100kHz-150MHz range.

The actual limits for household equipment are more stringent than for industrial equipment.

Now - the primary goal of the regulations is to prevent harmful effects on other electronic equipment (in Europe the equipment must have a certain level of immunity to electrical and magnetic fields). I am not aware of any regulation or study discussing harmful effects on humans. However, allowed emission levels are much lower than your typical cordless or cell phone, wireless router, etc.

Boris
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 26 Jan 2009, 10:47 pm


As follow-ups please: In the emission frequency range you specified, can you say approximately what amount of EMI your amps (and to your knowledge, other manufacturers' switching amps) actually do emit?  Is there any possibility (even remote) of any health impact or danger, from long term exposure to these emissions at close ranges? :?:



Tommy will answer for his products specifically - I'll just post some general info...

Class D amplifiers, along with ANY electronic component having oscillator operating above 9kHz, MUST comply with FCC imposed emission limits in the frequency range of 450kHz to 1GHz (450kHz to 30MHz for conducted emissions and 30MHz-1GHz for radiated emissions). In Europe, limit is 150kHz-1GHz (and 30MHz is a crossover between conducted and radiated emissions). This is for UNINTENDED radiators, not for radio stations, cell phones, etc. In practice, most switchmode power supplies and class D amps radiate in 100kHz-150MHz range.

The actual limits for household equipment are more stringent than for industrial equipment.

Now - the primary goal of the regulations is to prevent harmful effects on other electronic equipment (in Europe the equipment must have a certain level of immunity to electrical and magnetic fields). I am not aware of any regulation or study discussing harmful effects on humans. However, allowed emission levels are much lower than your typical cordless or cell phone, wireless router, etc.

Boris


Boris,

Thanks very much for your post.

Regarding the effects of low level EMI on organic matter (like, people), I'd also like to know more about this.  As far as the magnitude of various sources, AC power lines are on the top of the list, even though the frequencies are low.  Next comes your cell phone.  Didn't US courts throw out a bunch of cell phone radiation related cases in the 1990s?

BTW, I'll get to the UCD question soon...

BR,
Tommy
Title: UPS busted a Cherry
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 27 Jan 2009, 05:57 pm
Hey, folks...
We received a Cherry last week that was dropped, so the faceplate was sheered off and the chassis suffered some minor bend and paint chipping.  I plan to fix this up with new boards.  If you are interested in this unit, please send an email to Support@DigitalAmp.com.  Thanks.

Tommy
Title: Difference between UCD and our proprietary technology
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 27 Jan 2009, 09:04 pm

And since I've already blapped more than I should :oops: I can tell you guys that he is intimately familiar with the operation of the UcD and ICE modules, and feels absolutely confidant that his designs are superior in both theory and implementation.

Would very much like to hear how exactly his designs better the UcD in theory and implementation....

There are a few key differences.  For one, UCD takes feedback after the filter which allows less phase margin and relies on the capacitance of the output to control the modulation.  There is also more than a decade of R&D behind the Digital Amp Co. methods involving much more than the general topology of the amp.  We use innovation in our modulation method, component selection, and practical implementation matters (layout, partitioning, etc.).

Sorry this can't go to the "exactly" level without divulging some "secret sauce" info.  We believe UCD is one of our more worthy competitors, and we have the greatest respect for Bruno P who created the technology.  I'd like to hear some more opinions from people who have heard both, preferably in an A/B comparison.  So far, we have heard that the Cherry and DAC4800A sound better all around, but keep in mind the speakers, source, power output, and setup can make all the difference.

Thanks for your post!
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: NewBuyer on 28 Jan 2009, 12:10 am
...AC power lines are on the top of the list, even though the frequencies are low.  Next comes your cell phone...


Thanks Tommy and Boris for the info regarding the type/frequencies of radiation that these switching amps emit. 

Tommy, just to reiterate my above question please: In the emission frequency range you specified for your amps, have you measured and can you say (approximately) what amount of EMI radiation your amps actually do emit?  :?:

Title: Low EMI from DAC4800A and Cherry
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 28 Jan 2009, 12:22 am
...AC power lines are on the top of the list, even though the frequencies are low.  Next comes your cell phone...


Thanks Tommy and Boris for the info regarding the radiation type/frequencies that these switching amps emit. 

Tommy, just to reiterate my above question please: In the emission frequency range you specified for your amps, can you say approximately what amount of EMI radiation your amps actually do emit? :?:



I can't show plots due to an NDA with a customer.  The emissions are low with respect to other amplifier designs.  Do you know of any companies that publish their EMI test results?  Thanks again.
Title: Re: Low EMI from DAC4800A and Cherry
Post by: NewBuyer on 28 Jan 2009, 12:31 am

I can't show plots due to an NDA with a customer.  The emissions are low with respect to other amplifier designs...

No plots is fine... could you at least say please what the max values are, that your amps ever emit? :?:

Title: Re: Low EMI from DAC4800A and Cherry
Post by: satfrat on 28 Jan 2009, 01:08 am

I can't show plots due to an NDA with a customer.  The emissions are low with respect to other amplifier designs...

No plots is fine... could you at least say please what the max values are, that your amps ever emit? :?:



Newbuyer, can you enlighten me to any other company that publishes the type of info that you're asking Tommy to do? Thanks. :D




Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Low EMI from DAC4800A and Cherry
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 28 Jan 2009, 01:10 am

I can't show plots due to an NDA with a customer.  The emissions are low with respect to other amplifier designs...

No plots is fine... could you at least say please what the max values are, that your amps ever emit? :?:



I'll send you an answer via PM...  Thanks again.
Title: Radiation emitted from DAC4800A and Cherry
Post by: NewBuyer on 28 Jan 2009, 01:48 am

I can't show plots due to an NDA with a customer.  The emissions are low with respect to other amplifier designs...

No plots is fine... could you at least say please what the max values are, that your amps ever emit? :?:



I'll send you an answer via PM...  Thanks again.


Hi Tommy,

Good to know - I appreciate your fast PM regarding this radiation information.  I sense you may not be comfortable making this information public, so I won't repeat it here (I hope others will please understand).  My thanks again for your replies and help.

Title: Re: Difference between UCD and our proprietary technology
Post by: cab on 28 Jan 2009, 03:16 am


There are a few key differences.  For one, UCD takes feedback after the filter which allows less phase margin and relies on the capacitance of the output to control the modulation.  There is also more than a decade of R&D behind the Digital Amp Co. methods involving much more than the general topology of the amp.  We use innovation in our modulation method, component selection, and practical implementation matters (layout, partitioning, etc.).

Sorry this can't go to the "exactly" level without divulging some "secret sauce" info.  We believe UCD is one of our more worthy competitors, and we have the greatest respect for Bruno P who created the technology.  I'd like to hear some more opinions from people who have heard both, preferably in an A/B comparison.  So far, we have heard that the Cherry and DAC4800A sound better all around, but keep in mind the speakers, source, power output, and setup can make all the difference.

Thanks for your post!


The Ucd uses feedback, your amp doesn't, we know that. Why is yours better from a theoretical standpoint? I am guessing the UcD has much better distortion specs, which in theory, should make it superior.

10 years of time developing your amp means nothing as far as why it is superior from a theoretical or implementation standpoint.

You seem reluctant to discuss EMI data on your amp... Has it passed the EU requirements for radiated EMF? What makes your layout, etc., better? UcD is well known to have passed and has very little EMI, unlike most other class d amps....

No offense, but Bruno, based on his work, publications, and patents, is recognized as one of the leading authorities, if not the authority, in the world, on class d amp design. Other than this amp, what publications, patents, and research have you published which would lend credence to your claims that you have out designed and out implemented the leading expert on class d?

To say that some people think it sounds better is not proof in my book-too subjective and too dependent on a multitude of other factors...besides, I am sure there are plenty of people who would disagree...such is the subjective nature of audio....

I have no doubt your product is a good one; it simply seems to me that the claims that it is a better design and implementation than the UcD is a bold statement that requires more than hand waving to back up.....

Title: Re: Difference between UCD and our proprietary technology
Post by: brj on 28 Jan 2009, 05:31 am
Quote from: cab
The Ucd uses feedback, your amp doesn't, we know that. Why is yours better from a theoretical standpoint? I am guessing the UcD has much better distortion specs, which in theory, should make it superior.

I've never owned a class D amp of any kind (mostly due to a lack of opportunity), but did just read an interesting article by Nelson Pass on negative feedback and the value of distortion specs as currently reported by most manufacturers:

http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/distortion/distortion.html

(I certainly wouldn't claim anyone is an authority over anyone else, but Nelson Pass certainly has a lot of experience in this area...)


As a general point, keep in mind that electromagnetic radiation follows an inverse square law, meaning that if you double the distance from the amp, the EM drops by a factor of 4.  Triple the distance, and it drops by a factor of 9, etc..  While I certainly like the idea of minimizing EMI as a general concept and pay attention to such things myself, I focus much more on the cell phone that I hold next to my head rather than components located some distance away from me when operating.

(That said, I'd be curious to see the EMI numbers more generally reported by amp manufacturers as well, if for no other reason than to let me know ahead of time whether I'd be forced to use shielded ICs.)
Title: Re: Difference between UCD and our proprietary technology
Post by: jon_010101 on 28 Jan 2009, 08:20 am
The Ucd uses feedback, your amp doesn't, we know that. Why is yours better from a theoretical standpoint? I am guessing the UcD has much better distortion specs, which in theory, should make it superior.

I think what Tommy is trying to say is that his feedback is taken before the output filter rather than after, not that it doesn't use feedback.  As long as the output filter is of high quality, it will contribute very little distortion of its own.  In tube amplifiers, for example, it is most common to take feedback after the output transformer - but stability gains can be had by taking it before, with comparable distortion-reduction.

Judging by the measurements posted on the website, his amp should have no problem competing with a UcD.  I am mighty impressed, and proud to see it is a product of Pennsylvania :thumb:
Title: Re: Difference between UCD and our proprietary technology
Post by: satfrat on 28 Jan 2009, 01:31 pm
Quote from: cab
The Ucd uses feedback, your amp doesn't, we know that. Why is yours better from a theoretical standpoint? I am guessing the UcD has much better distortion specs, which in theory, should make it superior.

I've never owned a class D amp of any kind (mostly due to a lack of opportunity), but did just read an interesting article by Nelson Pass on negative feedback and the value of distortion specs as currently reported by most manufacturers:

http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/distortion/distortion.html

(I certainly wouldn't claim anyone is an authority over anyone else, but Nelson Pass certainly has a lot of experience in this area...)


As a general point, keep in mind that electromagnetic radiation follows an inverse square law, meaning that if you double the distance from the amp, the EM drops by a factor of 4.  Triple the distance, and it drops by a factor of 9, etc..  While I certainly like the idea of minimizing EMI as a general concept and pay attention to such things myself, I focus much more on the cell phone that I hold next to my head rather than components located some distance away from me when operating.

(That said, I'd be curious to see the EMI numbers more generally reported by amp manufacturers as well, if for no other reason than to let me know ahead of time whether I'd be forced to use shielded ICs.)


I wholeheartedly agree with your last statement, it would be nice if all companies made available EMI numbers for consumers but I've never seen any myself? I guess neither has Newbuyer has he failed to answer my question on the subject. :?: So Newbuyer, have you presented this same line of questioning to Bryston in their Circle? I've failed to see it mentioned in your recent posts to them but I would like to, if for no other reason than to see what answer you'd get from them? :lol:

Alone those the same topic of EMI radiation, I have to wonder how effective Audio Magic Pulse Gen ZX  (http://www.audio-magic.com/Prod-PulseGenZX.html) units are in counteracting these emmisions? I use these little gems inside all my components, even my DirecTv HD DVR, HTPC computer and the breakerbox. :o I had never been concerned or actually even thought about the adverse "human" effects of EMI til Newbuyer brought it up but now I see an even more increased value for these little EMI fighting units than I had previously realized. I wonder what a Pulse Gen ZX would do for a Cherry amp? :D Hey Tommy, maybe we can find out at a future RAVE possibly, I have a spare I could bring for such an occasion if interested.  :thumb:
(http://www.audio-magic.com/Images/Insets/PulseGenZX.jpg)

Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Difference between UCD and our proprietary technology
Post by: cab on 28 Jan 2009, 02:48 pm

I think what Tommy is trying to say is that his feedback is taken before the output filter rather than after, not that it doesn't use feedback.  As long as the output filter is of high quality, it will contribute very little distortion of its own.  In tube amplifiers, for example, it is most common to take feedback after the output transformer - but stability gains can be had by taking it before, with comparable distortion-reduction.


As long as the output filter is outside the loop, the distortion of the amp will not be load independent. That means it will react and perform differently with varying load impedance. Know any speakers with a perfectly flat impedance?

Usually amps of this design are optimized for a set impedance, which means they are suboptimal at every other impedance. UcD does not have this problem.

Also, amps without post filter feedback usually have difficulty with very low impedance loads. Not sure about these amps-can they handle 1 ohm loads without blinking like the UcD?

Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: cab on 28 Jan 2009, 04:11 pm
Here is what I am talking about:

Frequency response vs load:

Cherry Amp (4 and 8 ohm loads):

(http://www.ejapaneseswords.com/cherry.jpg)

UcD Amp

(http://www.ejapaneseswords.com/ucd.jpg)

The UcD is FLAT for 3, 6 and infinite ohms (open circuit).

One can see that the frequency response for the Cherry varies depending on the load. Figures aren't provided for less than 4 or greater than 8 ohm loads, but the trend is apparent.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: richidoo on 28 Jan 2009, 05:59 pm
Only class D amps with high switching freqs are a problem for EM pollution. Bryston does not make class D amps.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: brj on 28 Jan 2009, 06:26 pm
Quote from: richidoo
Only class D amps with high switching freqs are a problem for EM pollution.

You do need to distinguish between the power supply and the amp module.

A non-switching amp module could be fed by a switch mode power supply (although I can't think of any shipping amps offhand that use this configuration) while many class D (switching) amps use a linear power supply.  Like anything else, this comes down to a design choice.  Design the amp chassis to be a big Faraday cage, and this becomes far less of a concern - if was a concern to begin with.


CAB, it is entirely possible that Tommy doesn't have the same design philosophy, especially regarding feedback, that UcD does, in which case you wouldn't expect identical specs.  Certainly many amps play better with some types of speakers than others, but work exceedingly well for the subset they target.  (I'd never use a tube amp to drive a demanding woofer, for example, but many people will use nothing but tubes on a sensitive speaker or the mid-tweet of a more demanding speaker - even if tube amp specs aren't always as impressive as the specs of other amp topologies.)  Personally, specs alone wouldn't preclude me from listening to any amp, especially as I'm pretty convinced that the commonly reported measurements don't go far enough in fully characterizing what we can actually hear.  (For example, when people discuss distortion in amps or jitter in sources, I'd like to see the spectra involved, not just a single max value.)
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: TomS on 28 Jan 2009, 06:35 pm
Quote from: richidoo
Only class D amps with high switching freqs are a problem for EM pollution.
... although I can't think of any shipping amps offhand that use this configuration) while many class D (switching) amps use a linear power supply.

...
FWIW, NuForce is probably one.  I dont' think they have room or dissapation capability for a linear supply in their little case.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: satfrat on 28 Jan 2009, 06:46 pm
Only class D amps with high switching freqs are a problem for EM pollution. Bryston does not make class D amps.


Ohh, didn't know that. Thanks for cluing me in. :thumb:

Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: brj on 28 Jan 2009, 06:47 pm
... although I can't think of any shipping amps offhand that use this configuration) while many class D (switching) amps use a linear power supply.
...
FWIW, NuForce is probably one.  I dont' think they have room or dissapation capability for a linear supply in their little case.

You cut of my quote too early! :wink:

I mentioned a non-switching amp module with a switching supply.  NuForce amps have a SMPS in front of a switching amp module.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: cab on 28 Jan 2009, 06:54 pm


CAB, it is entirely possible that Tommy doesn't have the same design philosophy, especially regarding feedback, that UcD does, in which case you wouldn't expect identical specs.  Certainly many amps play better with some types of speakers than others, but work exceedingly well for the subset they target.  (I'd never use a tube amp to drive a demanding woofer, for example, but many people will use nothing but tubes on a sensitive speaker or the mid-tweet of a more demanding speaker - even if tube amp specs aren't always as impressive as the specs of other amp topologies.)  Personally, specs alone wouldn't preclude me from listening to any amp, especially as I'm pretty convinced that the commonly reported measurements don't go far enough in fully characterizing what we can actually hear.  (For example, when people discuss distortion in amps or jitter in sources, I'd like to see the spectra involved, not just a single max value.)

The UcD is designed to function the same regardless of speaker load, while the Cherry specs vary with changing loads. Since nearly all speakers present a varying load, this is less than desirable, although as you remark, it may be less of a problem with certain speakers, i.e., those with a relatively flat impedance. How large a subset is that?

Personally, I wouldn't claim that an amp with output dependent on load to be a superior design.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: brj on 28 Jan 2009, 07:35 pm
I agree that load invariant power is an excellent design goal, but my point was that the common mechanism to achieve this - negative feedback - isn't "free" in terms of the acoustic signature it lends an amp.  Some people don't like the sound of GNFB amps, just like others don't like tubes, or solid state, or class D, or any other over-generalized term that may or may apply to a specific amp.  Like everything else, it is a matter of degree.  (I'd very much recommend the Nelson Pass article I linked to further up this thread - I don't know how much I'm personally concerned about feedback, but I found it educational regardless.)

I would also add that there are other ways to deal with a significantly non-flat impedance curves, for example, from a Zobel network to a fully active rig where suitable amps are slaved directly to drivers.  If the curve is significantly problematic, I would also tend to lay some of the criticism on the speaker designer, rather than expect every amp to handle it without oscillating!

Of course, this thread is now veering pretty heavily into general amp and system design philosophy and away from Tommy's specific products, so I will attempt to avoid further excursions off-topic.  Sorry, Tommy!
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: cab on 28 Jan 2009, 08:31 pm
I agree that load invariant power is an excellent design goal, but my point was that the common mechanism to achieve this - negative feedback - isn't "free" in terms of the acoustic signature it lends an amp. 

His amp uses feedback....
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: TomS on 28 Jan 2009, 08:54 pm
... although I can't think of any shipping amps offhand that use this configuration) while many class D (switching) amps use a linear power supply.
...
FWIW, NuForce is probably one.  I dont' think they have room or dissapation capability for a linear supply in their little case.

You cut of my quote too early! :wink:

I mentioned a non-switching amp module with a switching supply.  NuForce amps have a SMPS in front of a switching amp module.
Sorry, I got caught by the double negative sort of thing - doh...

I meant switching output with a switching supply.... like the NuForce :wink:  I have seen a few DIY efforts with a SMPS feeding class AB output stages, but you're right, can't think of commercial efforts on this.
Title: Re: Difference between UCD and our proprietary technology
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 29 Jan 2009, 09:25 pm


There are a few key differences.  For one, UCD takes feedback after the filter which allows less phase margin and relies on the capacitance of the output to control the modulation.  There is also more than a decade of R&D behind the Digital Amp Co. methods involving much more than the general topology of the amp.  We use innovation in our modulation method, component selection, and practical implementation matters (layout, partitioning, etc.).

Sorry this can't go to the "exactly" level without divulging some "secret sauce" info.  We believe UCD is one of our more worthy competitors, and we have the greatest respect for Bruno P who created the technology.  I'd like to hear some more opinions from people who have heard both, preferably in an A/B comparison.  So far, we have heard that the Cherry and DAC4800A sound better all around, but keep in mind the speakers, source, power output, and setup can make all the difference.

Thanks for your post!


The Ucd uses feedback, your amp doesn't, we know that. Why is yours better from a theoretical standpoint? I am guessing the UcD has much better distortion specs, which in theory, should make it superior.

10 years of time developing your amp means nothing as far as why it is superior from a theoretical or implementation standpoint.

You seem reluctant to discuss EMI data on your amp... Has it passed the EU requirements for radiated EMF? What makes your layout, etc., better? UcD is well known to have passed and has very little EMI, unlike most other class d amps....

No offense, but Bruno, based on his work, publications, and patents, is recognized as one of the leading authorities, if not the authority, in the world, on class d amp design. Other than this amp, what publications, patents, and research have you published which would lend credence to your claims that you have out designed and out implemented the leading expert on class d?

To say that some people think it sounds better is not proof in my book-too subjective and too dependent on a multitude of other factors...besides, I am sure there are plenty of people who would disagree...such is the subjective nature of audio....

I have no doubt your product is a good one; it simply seems to me that the claims that it is a better design and implementation than the UcD is a bold statement that requires more than hand waving to back up.....



First, our amps DO use feedback.  Where did you read or hear otherwise?
Second, we are a private company and don't divulge information haphazardly.  The proof is in the sound.
Third, we trust our customers 100% and none of them have ever said that they like the sound of UCD better than DAC.  Have you ever heard this anywhere?  Have you ever heard one of our amps?  Specs wise, it's easy enough to visit www.DigitalAmp.com and check our specs.  They are very, VERY good, but like I say often, bench measurements don't tell the whole story.  You can also search the net for patents, publications, and the like that I have published.  Consider that it takes quite a bit of knowledge in the field to make such products.  I have been at this since the 1980s.  Also, Bruno can vouch for me, so feel free to ask him!  He even posted to this thread (check it out).  Thanks again for your post.

WR,
Tommy
Title: Re: Difference between UCD and our proprietary technology
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 29 Jan 2009, 09:34 pm
The Ucd uses feedback, your amp doesn't, we know that. Why is yours better from a theoretical standpoint? I am guessing the UcD has much better distortion specs, which in theory, should make it superior.

I think what Tommy is trying to say is that his feedback is taken before the output filter rather than after, not that it doesn't use feedback.  As long as the output filter is of high quality, it will contribute very little distortion of its own.  In tube amplifiers, for example, it is most common to take feedback after the output transformer - but stability gains can be had by taking it before, with comparable distortion-reduction.

Judging by the measurements posted on the website, his amp should have no problem competing with a UcD.  I am mighty impressed, and proud to see it is a product of Pennsylvania :thumb:

Great post!  Are you from PA?  Thanks.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: cab on 29 Jan 2009, 09:36 pm
Here is what I am talking about:

Frequency response vs load:

Cherry Amp (4 and 8 ohm loads):

(http://www.ejapaneseswords.com/cherry.jpg)

UcD Amp

(http://www.ejapaneseswords.com/ucd.jpg)

The UcD is FLAT for 3, 6 and infinite ohms (open circuit).

One can see that the frequency response for the Cherry varies depending on the load. Figures aren't provided for less than 4 or greater than 8 ohm loads, but the trend is apparent.


Well, if you don't wish to back up your statements objectively or address the EMI issues, and I understand why you would rather not, can you at least address the above issue as it concerns data that you have published?

Many people prefer the euphonic "tube sound" as well, but then most people are aware that is isn't a more accurate amplification scheme, simply "agreeable" distortion. Perhaps the fact that your amp is not flat with load is much the same....
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 30 Jan 2009, 12:00 am
Here is what I am talking about:

Frequency response vs load:

Cherry Amp (4 and 8 ohm loads):

(http://www.ejapaneseswords.com/cherry.jpg)

UcD Amp

(http://www.ejapaneseswords.com/ucd.jpg)

The UcD is FLAT for 3, 6 and infinite ohms (open circuit).

One can see that the frequency response for the Cherry varies depending on the load. Figures aren't provided for less than 4 or greater than 8 ohm loads, but the trend is apparent.


Well, if you don't wish to back up your statements objectively or address the EMI issues, and I understand why you would rather not, can you at least address the above issue as it concerns data that you have published?

Many people prefer the euphonic "tube sound" as well, but then most people are aware that is isn't a more accurate amplification scheme, simply "agreeable" distortion. Perhaps the fact that your amp is not flat with load is much the same....


Take a look at the frequencies!  It's a little hard to read the UCD graph, but you can see from the DAC plot that there is less than a 1dB difference between 4 and 8 ohms load at 20KHz.  Once again, this comes down to sound.  I have designed several amps that use after-filter feedback, and it certainly takes away from clarity, especially for "guitar pluck" and "cymbal tap" type dynamics.  That is based on years of research and development.  Thanks again.

BR,
Tommy
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: cab on 30 Jan 2009, 12:17 am
Here is what I am talking about:

Frequency response vs load:

Cherry Amp (4 and 8 ohm loads):

(http://www.ejapaneseswords.com/cherry.jpg)

UcD Amp

(http://www.ejapaneseswords.com/ucd.jpg)

The UcD is FLAT for 3, 6 and infinite ohms (open circuit).

One can see that the frequency response for the Cherry varies depending on the load. Figures aren't provided for less than 4 or greater than 8 ohm loads, but the trend is apparent.


Well, if you don't wish to back up your statements objectively or address the EMI issues, and I understand why you would rather not, can you at least address the above issue as it concerns data that you have published?

Many people prefer the euphonic "tube sound" as well, but then most people are aware that is isn't a more accurate amplification scheme, simply "agreeable" distortion. Perhaps the fact that your amp is not flat with load is much the same....


Take a look at the frequencies!  It's a little hard to read the UCD graph, but you can see from the DAC plot that there is less than a 1dB difference between 4 and 8 ohms load at 20KHz.  Once again, this comes down to sound.  I have designed several amps that use after-filter feedback, and it certainly takes away from clarity, especially for "guitar pluck" and "cymbal tap" type dynamics.  That is based on years of research and development.  Thanks again.

BR,
Tommy


We don't know what the figures are for 1~2 ohm loads or those greater than 8 ohms, except that the response will be worse than what is shown. The UcD response is independent of load and is flat to 20Khz...

The discussion was about the comment that your amp is a better design and implementation than the UcD. Sound quality is subjective while specs, such as a flat response to a varying load and low EMI, are valid criteria upon which to judge the design and implementation. Objectively, I still fail to see why your amp is superior in design and implementation....Talking about your years of experience and happy customers does nothing to support the claim.

If you have patents and published papers, I can't find them....have any links?
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: satfrat on 30 Jan 2009, 12:38 am
Hey cab, why don't you compare the 2 amps for yourself and see which design you prefer? Seems mfsoa has done this and he made his statement based on an opinion. :thumb: Myself, I'll take an actual listener's(that being mfsoa) opinion over your charts, specs, and rants anyday. :D

Cheers,
Robin

edit, I too was pestimistic as my early posts in this thread will attest but I have heard this amp a few times, thanks to Tommy's participation in past RAVES and I have liked what I heard,,, really liked in some cases depending on the preamp matchups. I myself haven't ever had the chance to hear a UcD amp or compare the 2 so i have no opionion as to any superiority claims between the 2 designs myself. :thumb:
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: cab on 30 Jan 2009, 01:01 am
Hey cab, why don't you compare the 2 amps for yourself and see which design you prefer? Seems mfsoa has done this and he made his statement based on an opinion. :thumb: Myself, I'll take an actual listener's(that being mfsoa) opinion over your charts, specs, and rants anyday. :D

Cheers,
Robin

edit, I too was pestimistic as my early posts in this thread will attest but I have heard this amp a few times, thanks to Tommy's participation in past RAVES and I have liked what I heard,,, really liked in some cases depending on the preamp matchups. I myself haven't ever had the chance to hear a UcD amp or compare the 2 so i have no opionion as to any superiority claims between the 2 designs myself. :thumb:

It is strictly a matter of engineering, not subjective performance. Claiming it is superior in design and implementation means charts and specs not customer reviews. Not sure where you are getting the rant portion....

It's like claiming car b, which is slower, costs more, and emits more emissions than car a, is a better design than car a because some drivers liked driving it better than car a.

Glad you and others like it. I'm just asking for proof that supports the marketing.....
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: jman66 on 30 Jan 2009, 01:21 am
Proof, specs and other nomenclature can be the equivalent of toilet paper when it comes to audio performance.
Take for example the measurements conducted on tube amps versus solid state. They typically measure poorer than solid state.
But in the listening, there's an entirely different story being told... :wink:
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: cab on 30 Jan 2009, 01:24 am
Proof, specs and other nomenclature can be the equivalent of toilet paper when it comes to audio performance.
Take for example the measurements conducted on tube amps versus solid state. They typically measure poorer than solid state.
But in the listening, there's an entirely different story being told... :wink:

Yeah, some people like it and some don't. It's SUBJECTIVE.....

The claims made were OBJECTIVE.

Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: orientalexpress on 30 Jan 2009, 01:26 am
i have the opputunity to compare between Spectron amp and DAC 4800A with sp tech revalation speakers.at first i thought this not going to be even close,after i read all the rave review on the spectron.as soon as i aquired the Spectron i put my DAC for sale here at AC.but no one seem to be interested.over the weekend i got a couple friends come over to do A-B comparison.I try to use different genre music to comnpare them.playing about 4 different CDs.Alison Krause,Rodrigo Gabriela,Fredric Chopin,Opus3 test CD.ouput is about the same.seem like DAC have better image ,bass,more live ,better mid,the high ia about the same..That why i decided to sell the spectron .ask Tommy to send u a DAC amp for try out.i think u going to like DAC amp.even tho they're not well known in Hi end audio.they're real deal. :thumb:


lapsan
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mfsoa on 30 Jan 2009, 01:30 am
To All, but especially Cab,

I feel bad I started all this with my comments, and I have put words in Tommy's mouth and said things in public that he told me in private that maybe I shouldn't have repeated  :oops:.

I was just trying to point out that Tommy/DAC has great confidence in his product's ability to compete w/ any of the most popular types of Class D circuits and that some of this belief is the result of his being familiar w/ the guts of the other ClassD designs. I don't think that there is harm in saying that he feels his product is superior - I sure hope that Bruno feels that his amps are better than Tommy's, that Krell/Audio Research etc. feels that their amps are better than Bruno's, that the Wyred4Sound folks think that their amps are better than UcDs, that VAC thinks that their stuff is better than ... - You get the picture. I was trying to make the point that DAC is not only hoping to "keep up" w/ the other amps designs, but to exceed them. I wouldn't want the makers of my equipment to think anything less!

I like the sound of the DAC amps. I feel that they are at least competitive with the UcD and ICE amps I've had in my house and that other's may benefit from (or be free to ignore if you want) my impressions. Tommy won't be hired to run the Marketing dept at Bose anytime soon (sorry buddy) but I'd rather pay for engineering expertise.

It would be nice to have a perfectly flat frequency response in my ears first, and then in my speakers, and then in my room, and then in my recorded material so that flat response from my electronics would actually mean something. But alas, I don't think I'll miss a dB or two at 20K  :lol:

Quote
The discussion was about the comment that your amp is a better design and implementation than the UcD
I made that comment and maybe shouldn't have. Let's not take Tommy to task for not defending my comment vigorously enough.  :thumb:

So, sorry to have stirred things up.

-Mike




 
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: satfrat on 30 Jan 2009, 01:38 am
Hey cab, why don't you compare the 2 amps for yourself and see which design you prefer? Seems mfsoa has done this and he made his statement based on an opinion. :thumb: Myself, I'll take an actual listener's(that being mfsoa) opinion over your charts, specs, and rants anyday. :D

Cheers,
Robin

edit, I too was pestimistic as my early posts in this thread will attest but I have heard this amp a few times, thanks to Tommy's participation in past RAVES and I have liked what I heard,,, really liked in some cases depending on the preamp matchups. I myself haven't ever had the chance to hear a UcD amp or compare the 2 so i have no opionion as to any superiority claims between the 2 designs myself. :thumb:

It is strictly a matter of engineering, not subjective performance. Claiming it is superior in design and implementation means charts and specs not customer reviews. Not sure where you are getting the rant portion....

It's like claiming car b, which is slower, costs more, and emits more emissions than car a, is a better design than car a because some drivers liked driving it better than car a.

Glad you and others like it. I'm just asking for proof that supports the marketing.....

Marketing cab?? Can you show me proof that DAC is marketing claims that their design is superior to the UcD? Thanks. :D

Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 30 Jan 2009, 01:41 am
I agree that load invariant power is an excellent design goal, but my point was that the common mechanism to achieve this - negative feedback - isn't "free" in terms of the acoustic signature it lends an amp.  Some people don't like the sound of GNFB amps, just like others don't like tubes, or solid state, or class D, or any other over-generalized term that may or may apply to a specific amp.  Like everything else, it is a matter of degree.  (I'd very much recommend the Nelson Pass article I linked to further up this thread - I don't know how much I'm personally concerned about feedback, but I found it educational regardless.)

I would also add that there are other ways to deal with a significantly non-flat impedance curves, for example, from a Zobel network to a fully active rig where suitable amps are slaved directly to drivers.  If the curve is significantly problematic, I would also tend to lay some of the criticism on the speaker designer, rather than expect every amp to handle it without oscillating!

Of course, this thread is now veering pretty heavily into general amp and system design philosophy and away from Tommy's specific products, so I will attempt to avoid further excursions off-topic.  Sorry, Tommy!

No problem.  I appreciate your comments.  This is going beyond "how is your design different" and into the "obvious affiliation" area...  Thanks as always.  You are a great contributor to this thread!
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: cab on 30 Jan 2009, 01:49 am
"Marketing cab?? Can you show me proof that DAC is marketing claims that their design is superior to the UcD? Thanks. Very Happy

Cheers,
Robin"

Maybe you missed the post that started this where the OP, a customer I believe, related what he was told by the designer....I have quoted it below for you......

In any case, this horse is dead and there is no need to beat it further. Most manufacturers make such statements so it is best to just let it go for what it is.....





And since I've already blapped more than I should :oops: I can tell you guys that he is intimately familiar with the operation of the UcD and ICE modules, and feels absolutely confidant that his designs are superior in both theory and implementation. This may not mean much coming from him if it was ad copy, but this is what I asked him point blank in person. Is it true? I don't have the tech knowledge to know, but I wanted to give you some idea of what Tommy is about and what he's shooting for here.

Tommy - Hope I didn't blather too much or give away your shoe size- just giving my $0.02, FWIW.

-Mike

Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mfsoa on 30 Jan 2009, 01:55 am
Quote
Most manufacturers make such statements so it is best to just let it go for what it is.....

Ahhh, very good. This is how my comments should be taken, thanks for understanding.

Wow I reread my comment you attached - Pretty over the top, I admit  :oops:

Happy listening, everyone!

-Mike
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: satfrat on 30 Jan 2009, 01:56 am
 I think I get your point just fine cab. :D


"Marketing cab?? Can you show me proof that DAC is marketing claims that their design is superior to the UcD? Thanks. Very Happy

Cheers,
Robin"

Maybe you missed the post that started this where the OP, a customer I believe, related what he was told by the designer....I have quoted it below for you......

In any case, this horse is dead and there is no need to beat it further. Most manufacturers make such statements so it is best to just let it go for what it is.....





And since I've already blapped more than I should :oops: I can tell you guys that he is intimately familiar with the operation of the UcD and ICE modules, and feels absolutely confidant that his designs are superior in both theory and implementation. This may not mean much coming from him if it was ad copy, but this is what I asked him point blank in person. Is it true? I don't have the tech knowledge to know, but I wanted to give you some idea of what Tommy is about and what he's shooting for here.

Tommy - Hope I didn't blather too much or give away your shoe size- just giving my $0.02, FWIW.

-Mike


Title: OK, on to other topics...
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 30 Jan 2009, 02:10 am
"Marketing cab?? Can you show me proof that DAC is marketing claims that their design is superior to the UcD? Thanks. Very Happy

Cheers,
Robin"

Maybe you missed the post that started this where the OP, a customer I believe, related what he was told by the designer....I have quoted it below for you......

In any case, this horse is dead and there is no need to beat it further. Most manufacturers make such statements so it is best to just let it go for what it is.....





And since I've already blapped more than I should :oops: I can tell you guys that he is intimately familiar with the operation of the UcD and ICE modules, and feels absolutely confidant that his designs are superior in both theory and implementation. This may not mean much coming from him if it was ad copy, but this is what I asked him point blank in person. Is it true? I don't have the tech knowledge to know, but I wanted to give you some idea of what Tommy is about and what he's shooting for here.

Tommy - Hope I didn't blather too much or give away your shoe size- just giving my $0.02, FWIW.

-Mike



Cab (what is your real name?),

Thank you for your participation in this thread.  As you remarked, we starting to beat a dead horse.  As for articles, press releases, patents, and the like, I figured I'd Google that for you (try the following links):
http://tinyurl.com/cyxraz
http://tinyurl.com/clu5bl
http://tinyurl.com/c39jn2
Also, try the following keywords: Ravisent, ST Microsystems, Crest Audio, AudioXPress, Live Sound International, AES, Amplifier, Class-D, Digital Amp, Switching Audio Amp, Digital Recorder, EEG, EKG, Ultrasound, iPod, iTunes, Apple, Digital5, Sycom, Telefactor, Board Level Digital Amp, Module Based Digital Amp, etc.
I noticed some of those who either own DAC amps or have heard them stepped in to defend our small, American, innovative company.  Sorry we are not playing the game like other companies, but that's how we are able to give our customers real value instead of having them pay for a marketing program.  Thanks again.

WR,
Tommy
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: *Scotty* on 30 Jan 2009, 02:12 am
cab,The DAC amp actually does have a technical advantage over the UcD design. The DAC amp has a 3dB down point of 60kHz and the UcD amp is 3dB down at 30kHz. Because the UcD filter pole is twice as close to the audio band as DAC amp it has phase shift in the audio band in the mid and high frequencies, this is audible. The DAC amp has a filter pole far enough away from the audio band to avoid the worst of this problem,if it has a Bessel filter design it would avoid the problem entirely. The phase shift problem does not show up in a simple frequency response graph. Once again we come back to the necessity of actually listening to the amp to hear what is going on.
Scotty
Title: Re: OK, on to other topics...
Post by: cab on 30 Jan 2009, 02:34 am
"Marketing cab?? Can you show me proof that DAC is marketing claims that their design is superior to the UcD? Thanks. Very Happy

Cheers,
Robin"

Maybe you missed the post that started this where the OP, a customer I believe, related what he was told by the designer....I have quoted it below for you......

In any case, this horse is dead and there is no need to beat it further. Most manufacturers make such statements so it is best to just let it go for what it is.....





And since I've already blapped more than I should :oops: I can tell you guys that he is intimately familiar with the operation of the UcD and ICE modules, and feels absolutely confidant that his designs are superior in both theory and implementation. This may not mean much coming from him if it was ad copy, but this is what I asked him point blank in person. Is it true? I don't have the tech knowledge to know, but I wanted to give you some idea of what Tommy is about and what he's shooting for here.

Tommy - Hope I didn't blather too much or give away your shoe size- just giving my $0.02, FWIW.

-Mike



Cab (what is your real name?),

Thank you for your participation in this thread.  As you remarked, we starting to beat a dead horse.  As for articles, press releases, patents, and the like, I figured I'd Google that for you (try the following links):
http://tinyurl.com/cyxraz
http://tinyurl.com/clu5bl
http://tinyurl.com/c39jn2
Also, try the following keywords: Ravisent, ST Microsystems, Crest Audio, AudioXPress, Live Sound International, AES, Amplifier, Class-D, Digital Amp, Switching Audio Amp, Digital Recorder, EEG, EKG, Ultrasound, iPod, iTunes, Apple, Digital5, Sycom, Telefactor, Board Level Digital Amp, Module Based Digital Amp, etc.
I noticed some of those who either own DAC amps or have heard them stepped in to defend our small, American, innovative company.  Sorry we are not playing the game like other companies, but that's how we are able to give our customers real value instead of having them pay for a marketing program.  Thanks again.

WR,
Tommy


Thank you for the links. I would have had better luck if I could have found your name on your web site....

Best of luck....
Title: Re: OK, on to other topics...
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 30 Jan 2009, 03:16 am

Thank you for the links. I would have had better luck if I could have found your name on your web site....

Best of luck....

My questions have gone unanswered, but either way, thanks again...  You should really listen to one of our amps someday.  We are certain that you'll be impressed!

-Tommy
Title: Re: OK, on to other topics...
Post by: cab on 30 Jan 2009, 03:34 am

Thank you for the links. I would have had better luck if I could have found your name on your web site....

Best of luck....

My questions have gone unanswered, but either way, thanks again...  You should really listen to one of our amps someday.  We are certain that you'll be impressed!

-Tommy


Yeah, I know the feeling.....

Someday I will.

Thanks again....
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: jon_010101 on 30 Jan 2009, 03:35 am
Well, if you don't wish to back up your statements objectively or address the EMI issues, and I understand why you would rather not, can you at least address the above issue as it concerns data that you have published?

Many people prefer the euphonic "tube sound" as well, but then most people are aware that is isn't a more accurate amplification scheme, simply "agreeable" distortion. Perhaps the fact that your amp is not flat with load is much the same....

   :scratch:

I know you've brought up this issue many times before on this forum (re: switching amp output filters).  A +/-1.5dB response variation at 30-50kHz is quite benign to humans.  To suggest this is equivalent to the frequency response deviations of a low-feedback tube amplifier (that occur all throughout the audio band with typical speaker loads) is either disingenuous or (hopefully) simply misled.  It is clear that varying design approaches lead to different trade-offs, between linear and nonlinear distortion, frequency and phase response, etc... to say that one approach is better than the other on the basis of one measured parameter is insufficient - in reality the approaches are simply different.  In any case, your confrontational approach here makes me quite uneasy.  :?
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 30 Jan 2009, 05:36 am
Well, if you don't wish to back up your statements objectively or address the EMI issues, and I understand why you would rather not, can you at least address the above issue as it concerns data that you have published?

Many people prefer the euphonic "tube sound" as well, but then most people are aware that is isn't a more accurate amplification scheme, simply "agreeable" distortion. Perhaps the fact that your amp is not flat with load is much the same....

   :scratch:

I know you've brought up this issue many times before on this forum (re: switching amp output filters).  A +/-1.5dB response variation at 30-50kHz is quite benign to humans.  To suggest this is equivalent to the frequency response deviations of a low-feedback tube amplifier (that occur all throughout the audio band with typical speaker loads) is either disingenuous or (hopefully) simply misled.  It is clear that varying design approaches lead to different trade-offs, between linear and nonlinear distortion, frequency and phase response, etc... to say that one approach is better than the other on the basis of one measured parameter is insufficient - in reality the approaches are simply different.  In any case, your confrontational approach here makes me quite uneasy.  :?

Wow!  What a great post.  Interesting choice of words with "confrontational".  Of course, as I have said many times before, the proof is in the pudding.  The SOUND is all that really matters.  I have had the pleasure of hearing Mike's system driven by the DAC4800A with our new non-servo modulators.  I was simply blown away!  The sound was out-of-body euphoric!  I found myself floating in space, surrounded by the music.  Amazing!  A few times, I thought the amp would overload or clip, and this never happened.  The Cherry has a bigger power supply than the DAC4800A, and on the bench, puts out more power and has less distortion (at high power), but this DAC4800A was just unreal in transparency and sheer power delivery.  It was like discovering known tracks all over again.  Unfortunately, this is when I wanted to try my new Wadia Transport with lossless recordings of my test tracks on my iPod, but I forgot that Mike didn't have a separate D/A (notice I don't use the acronym "DAC", ha ha).  Anyway, as you said, audio is full of tradeoffs, and we have always leaded toward sound quality over "the specs", even though our measured performance is outstanding.  We hope that people out there recognize marketing versus customer satisfaction.  Our customers have said that our amps are the best the have ever heard.  So, if you're worried that your speakers might load the Cherry amp to -0.5dB at 20KHz, go ahead and give it a listen.  You just might be floored in the difference between something engineered to perform well on the bench as opposed to something that's engineered to sound best in your system.  Thanks again, and hope to hear from you in the future.

-Tommy
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: satfrat on 30 Jan 2009, 05:45 am
Well, if you don't wish to back up your statements objectively or address the EMI issues, and I understand why you would rather not, can you at least address the above issue as it concerns data that you have published?

Many people prefer the euphonic "tube sound" as well, but then most people are aware that is isn't a more accurate amplification scheme, simply "agreeable" distortion. Perhaps the fact that your amp is not flat with load is much the same....

   :scratch:

I know you've brought up this issue many times before on this forum (re: switching amp output filters).  A +/-1.5dB response variation at 30-50kHz is quite benign to humans.  To suggest this is equivalent to the frequency response deviations of a low-feedback tube amplifier (that occur all throughout the audio band with typical speaker loads) is either disingenuous or (hopefully) simply misled.  It is clear that varying design approaches lead to different trade-offs, between linear and nonlinear distortion, frequency and phase response, etc... to say that one approach is better than the other on the basis of one measured parameter is insufficient - in reality the approaches are simply different.  In any case, your confrontational approach here makes me quite uneasy.  :?

Wow!  What a great post.  Interesting choice of words with "confrontational".  Of course, as I have said many times before, the proof is in the pudding.  The SOUND is all that really matters.  I have had the pleasure of hearing Mike's system driven by the DAC4800A with our new non-servo modulators.  I was simply blown away!  The sound was out-of-body euphoric!  I found myself floating in space, surrounded by the music.  Amazing!  A few times, I thought the amp would overload or clip, and this never happened.  The Cherry has a bigger power supply than the DAC4800A, and on the bench, puts out more power and has less distortion (at high power), but this DAC4800A was just unreal in transparency and sheer power delivery.  It was like discovering known tracks all over again.  Unfortunately, this is when I wanted to try my new Wadia Transport with lossless recordings of my test tracks on my iPod, but I forgot that Mike didn't have a separate D/A (notice I don't use the acronym "DAC", ha ha).  Anyway, as you said, audio is full of tradeoffs, and we have always leaded toward sound quality over "the specs", even though our measured performance is outstanding.  We hope that people out there recognize marketing versus customer satisfaction.  Our customers have said that our amps are the best the have ever heard.  So, if you're worried that your speakers might load the Cherry amp to -0.5dB at 20KHz, go ahead and give it a listen.  You just might be floored in the difference between something engineered to perform well on the bench as opposed to something that's engineered to sound best in your system.  Thanks again, and hope to hear from you in the future.

-Tommy


Yep Tommy, it was at Mike's(mfsoa) system when your Cherry amp was paired with his VAC Standard MKII tube preamp that I really fell in love with your amp. Your amp doubled the sound stage depth in his system and that's when I closed my eyes. 8) Something special was happening that day! :thumb:

Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: jhm731 on 30 Jan 2009, 06:11 am
Wow!  What a great post.  Interesting choice of words with "confrontational".  Of course, as I have said many times before, the proof is in the pudding.  The SOUND is all that really matters.  I have had the pleasure of hearing Mike's system driven by the DAC4800A with our new non-servo modulators.  I was simply blown away!  The sound was out-of-body euphoric!  I found myself floating in space, surrounded by the music.  Amazing!  A few times, I thought the amp would overload or clip, and this never happened.  The Cherry has a bigger power supply than the DAC4800A, and on the bench, puts out more power and has less distortion (at high power), but this DAC4800A was just unreal in transparency and sheer power delivery.  It was like discovering known tracks all over again.  Unfortunately, this is when I wanted to try my new Wadia Transport with lossless recordings of my test tracks on my iPod, but I forgot that Mike didn't have a separate D/A (notice I don't use the acronym "DAC", ha ha).  Anyway, as you said, audio is full of tradeoffs, and we have always leaded toward sound quality over "the specs", even though our measured performance is outstanding.  We hope that people out there recognize marketing versus customer satisfaction.  Our customers have said that our amps are the best the have ever heard.  So, if you're worried that your speakers might load the Cherry amp to -0.5dB at 20KHz, go ahead and give it a listen.  You just might be floored in the difference between something engineered to perform well on the bench as opposed to something that's engineered to sound best in your system.  Thanks again, and hope to hear from you in the future.

-Tommy



"new non-servo modulators"

Tommy-

I take it that the DAC4800A I tested didn't have these?

What improvements do these non-servo modulators make?

Dan

PS- In case anyone hasn't read my older posts, I tested a DAC4800A last year, and returned it under the 30 day trial period.

PPS- Tommy was a much better person to deal with, than the other AC amp designer/manufacturer, who's product I tried last year.



Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: orientalexpress on 30 Jan 2009, 06:20 am
yeah Tommy,when can i try your new the DAC4800A with our new non-servo modulators.since i love the original 4800a.:)


lapsan
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 30 Jan 2009, 01:46 pm
"new non-servo modulators"
I take it that the DAC4800A I tested didn't have these?
What improvements do these non-servo modulators make?

Dan

PS- In case anyone hasn't read my older posts, I tested a DAC4800A last year, and returned it under the 30 day trial period.
PPS- Tommy was a much better person to deal with, than the other AC amp designer/manufacturer, who's product I tried last year.


Hey, Dan.  How are you these days?
The non-servo boards came in just this month, so the amp you tried didn't have them.
The difference is simple...  The servo version uses an additional stage to compensate for DC offset.  The non-servo version uses a capacitor in the signal path to block DC.  The "purist" approach is not to have caps in the signal path.  The low frequency roll off is less than 0.2Hz either way.  We are still evaluating...

Tommy
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 30 Jan 2009, 01:49 pm
yeah Tommy,when can i try your new the DAC4800A with our new non-servo modulators.since i love the original 4800a.:)


lapsan

Lapsan,

I'll send you a regular email to discuss.  Thanks as always, and hope you are well...

Best Regards,
Tommy
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: cab on 30 Jan 2009, 02:26 pm
cab,The DAC amp actually does have a technical advantage over the UcD design. The DAC amp has a 3dB down point of 60kHz and the UcD amp is 3dB down at 30kHz. Because the UcD filter pole is twice as close to the audio band as DAC amp it has phase shift in the audio band in the mid and high frequencies, this is audible. The DAC amp has a filter pole far enough away from the audio band to avoid the worst of this problem,if it has a Bessel filter design it would avoid the problem entirely. The phase shift problem does not show up in a simple frequency response graph. Once again we come back to the necessity of actually listening to the amp to hear what is going on.
Scotty

Sorry for the late reply-didn't see this post...

According to the inventor, the standard UcD actually has a 55kHz bandwidth. Snce the DAC amp doesn't have full feedback round the output filter, the output filter will change from Bessel to others with load, unless you have a lot of loop gain around the filter. UcD deviation from linear phase at 20kHz is 1.7 degrees (from 1.5 to 2.0 across the full load range). Would be interesting to compare the same spec with the DAC amp.

This hasn't meant to be confrontational. I simply asked in what ways is the design and implementation of the DAC amp better than the UcD? As I said, that is a pretty bold statement and I would think that anyone making it would not do so lightly and would be fully prepared to defend it. It may have become confrontational as others rushed in and raised the vitriolic level. I apologize if that is the case.

Again, design and implementation are objective parameters that can be verified by specs only. Saying the proof is that the amp sounds better is purely subjective and does not constitute proof of a superior design or implementation. I agree that people buy amps based on their subjective preferences. The debate here has nothing to do with which amp sounds better....

Enough already...
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: *Scotty* on 30 Jan 2009, 06:35 pm
See link to PDF Docs with graphs of bandwidth and phase shift
http://seniordesign.engr.uidaho.edu/2008_2009/audiophile/UcD_WhitePaper.pdf
Scotty
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: cab on 30 Jan 2009, 09:53 pm
See link to PDF Docs with graphs of bandwidth and phase shift
http://seniordesign.engr.uidaho.edu/2008_2009/audiophile/UcD_WhitePaper.pdf
Scotty


I was given the info I quoted directly by Bruno......this is current info....
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: RodMCV on 31 Jan 2009, 12:18 am
I think Genesis Loudspeaker is using the UcD in their new Reference Amp.
And Jeff Rowland is using the ICEamp in his topend amps.

Different strokes for different folks.

Tommy can you email me; I tried PM but the box is full ?

Rod
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 31 Jan 2009, 04:24 am
I think Genesis Loudspeaker is using the UcD in their new Reference Amp.
And Jeff Rowland is using the ICEamp in his topend amps.

Different strokes for different folks.

Tommy can you email me; I tried PM but the box is full ?

Rod

Rod,
I sent a regular email since your PM box is full as well...  Thanks.
BR,
Tommy
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: orientalexpress on 31 Jan 2009, 05:51 am
Hey Tommy,didn't get any email from you .email please.thanks


lapsan
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: jhm731 on 31 Jan 2009, 05:55 am
"new non-servo modulators"
I take it that the DAC4800A I tested didn't have these?
What improvements do these non-servo modulators make?

Dan

PS- In case anyone hasn't read my older posts, I tested a DAC4800A last year, and returned it under the 30 day trial period.
PPS- Tommy was a much better person to deal with, than the other AC amp designer/manufacturer, who's product I tried last year.


Hey, Dan.  How are you these days?
The non-servo boards came in just this month, so the amp you tried didn't have them.
The difference is simple...  The servo version uses an additional stage to compensate for DC offset.  The non-servo version uses a capacitor in the signal path to block DC.  The "purist" approach is not to have caps in the signal path.  The low frequency roll off is less than 0.2Hz either way.  We are still evaluating...

Tommy


Tommy-

Doing great, thanks.

If the cap in the signal path produces  "out-of-body euphoric" results, maybe it's time to forget the "purist" approach
and just enjoy the music.

Best regards to your family.

Aloha,

Dan

PS-Like Spectron's V-cap option, just think of all the favors you could offer......
Title: servo versus non-servo
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 2 Feb 2009, 08:56 pm
"new non-servo modulators"
I take it that the DAC4800A I tested didn't have these?
What improvements do these non-servo modulators make?

Dan

PS- In case anyone hasn't read my older posts, I tested a DAC4800A last year, and returned it under the 30 day trial period.
PPS- Tommy was a much better person to deal with, than the other AC amp designer/manufacturer, who's product I tried last year.


Hey, Dan.  How are you these days?
The non-servo boards came in just this month, so the amp you tried didn't have them.
The difference is simple...  The servo version uses an additional stage to compensate for DC offset.  The non-servo version uses a capacitor in the signal path to block DC.  The "purist" approach is not to have caps in the signal path.  The low frequency roll off is less than 0.2Hz either way.  We are still evaluating...

Tommy


Tommy-

Doing great, thanks.

If the cap in the signal path produces  "out-of-body euphoric" results, maybe it's time to forget the "purist" approach
and just enjoy the music.

Best regards to your family.

Aloha,

Dan

PS-Like Spectron's V-cap option, just think of all the favors you could offer......

By the way, when we listened to the non-servo version, we didn't have the servo version handy for comparison...
Title: new Cherry motherboard --- CHERRY PLUS
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 22 Feb 2009, 04:41 am
Introducing the Cherry PLUS...

- new motherboard for even lower noise and distortion
- 20% more bulk power supply capacitance
- fewer interconnects
- shorter/fatter PCB traces
- improved output filter components
- improved modulator circuit

We're planning a special on this amp for AC members, so email DACSales@DigitalAmp.com if you'd like a unit before we offer this new design to the public.  Thanks.

Tommy
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mfsoa on 22 Feb 2009, 08:06 am
 :drool:
Title: comments about the new Cherry PLUS
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 22 Feb 2009, 05:17 pm
:drool:
1st one's on reserve already, Mike (sorry, someone beat you to it)...

Guess you want one!  There will be a few built up short term, but then there will be a few months delay mostly because of chassis supplies.  We figure the first few units can go to good Audio Circle homes!!!

I was asked what the "most meaningful difference" is between the Cherry and the Cherry PLUS.  It's a tie between the bigger rail caps and the improved output filter.  Anyway, we hope the Cherry PLUS will show off the technology better than ever due to the refinements we put into this new version.  Thanks, and hope all is well...

-Tommy
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: RodMCV on 23 Feb 2009, 07:31 pm
Tommy,

Good to see a continued improvement and refinement,

the best is of course the Max end point Sound!

What is going to happen to the sound,,
 
better headroom, less variation of sound regardless of speaker types?

Rod
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mfsoa on 24 Feb 2009, 02:10 am
Quote
Guess you want one!

Well, "want" is a word that we bandy-about quite a bit around here!  :lol:

But due to unforseen economic reprioritization ( http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=65235.msg597021;topicseen#new (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=65235.msg597021;topicseen#new) ) I'll have to hold off on the audio goodies for a bit.

-Mike
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mcullinan on 24 Feb 2009, 02:43 am
My car is rusting out and I will need one soon too... I figure if I get enough rust on the roof I will have a self installed moon roof. aka an unforseen luxury item actually raising the price of my decrepit 1998 dodge Aaavenger.
No new audio for me either, until the economic turn around...
Mike
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 24 Feb 2009, 05:23 am
Tommy,

Good to see a continued improvement and refinement,

the best is of course the Max end point Sound!

What is going to happen to the sound,,
 
better headroom, less variation of sound regardless of speaker types?

Rod

Rod,

Thanks for your kind reply.  The sonic target is better all-around.  We're putting a test report together, but we all know the difference between bench tests and listening.  A blind A/B test is planned as well, comparing the Cherry to the new Cherry PLUS.  On a technical note, the overall design is meant for greater current delivery and control, although it is quite good already in the original Cherry amp.

BR,
Tommy
Title: We are super busy
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 26 Feb 2009, 01:46 am
By the way, we have been receiving lots of email about the Cherry PLUS.  This amp is in short supply and in demand.  We are willing to sell the first few at a REALLY deep discount to AC members only...
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: RodMCV on 27 Feb 2009, 03:27 am
When Lapsan told me he preferred his 4800a on his SP-Tech Revelations compared to his Spectron SE MK2 I was flabbergasted.

I asked him again and he said Better!

Now we know YMWV but I understand the Rave also noted a synergy of the SP-Tech's speakers and DAC amps.

SP-Tech are known to reveal upstream no no's so that is really saying something good.


This must be the value of the  Green Big Amps this year and
Audiocircle-ites can get in on the ground floor.

Tommy is this an economy booster?

Rod
Title: Cherry Refurb for $1950 ! ! !
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 7 Mar 2009, 09:31 pm
When Lapsan told me he preferred his 4800a on his SP-Tech Revelations compared to his Spectron SE MK2 I was flabbergasted.

I asked him again and he said Better!

Now we know YMWV but I understand the Rave also noted a synergy of the SP-Tech's speakers and DAC amps.

SP-Tech are known to reveal upstream no no's so that is really saying something good.


This must be the value of the  Green Big Amps this year and
Audiocircle-ites can get in on the ground floor.

Tommy is this an economy booster?

Rod

Rod,

We are trying to do our part considering the economy!  In fact we now have a Refurbished Cherry Amp for only $1950.  It is in near perfect condition.  It was fitted with the newest boards and completely re-tested.  Thanks for your kind post.

Best Regards,
Tommy
Title: Wadia Transport versus CD
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 7 Mar 2009, 09:56 pm
OK, here's an interesting one...  Using lossless rips of some great recordings, including "Bright Nightgown" from Donald Fagen, "Spanish Harlem" from Rebecca Pidgeon, and "Chinese Dance" (Nutcracker, featuring flute, Sony Classical), my wife listened to the new Cherry PLUS amp in a blind test.  She has really good ears and lots of experience doing listening tests --- thanks to me  :P.  The amp was driven directly from an outboard D/A (has output level control) with balanced outputs.  The D/A was driven by either a SONY CD player (optical out) or the Wadia Transport (coax out).  This made A/B-ing easy because the D/A has an input selector.  The end result --- the Wadia source was preferred or tied on all recordings.  Any comments???

Best Regards,
Tommy
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: rms on 7 Mar 2009, 10:04 pm
Hey Tommy - I want to try a passive attenuator in my system but need to know the input impedence and input sensitivity ratings for my 4800A to have it built - or if you have any other recommendation please let me know. Tim at Luminous Audio builds one that looks promising;

http://www.luminousaudio.com/axiomrca.php

Take a look at the Axiom at the link above and let me know if that is something you could put together for me. If so I'll purchase it from you instead - or is there something else you would recommend? I'm just looking for the cleanest possible signal to the 4800A.

Thanks

Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 7 Mar 2009, 10:48 pm
Hey Tommy - I want to try a passive attenuator in my system but need to know the input impedence and input sensitivity ratings for my 4800A to have it built - or if you have any other recommendation please let me know. Tim at Luminous Audio builds one that looks promising;

http://www.luminousaudio.com/axiomrca.php

Take a look at the Axiom at the link above and let me know if that is something you could put together for me. If so I'll purchase it from you instead - or is there something else you would recommend? I'm just looking for the cleanest possible signal to the 4800A.

Thanks



The input impedance is about 10K when using single-ended (RCA), and here's the sensitivity info:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=61890.0

How do you like your DAC4800A?

Thanks for your post.

BR,
Tommy

Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: rms on 7 Mar 2009, 11:47 pm
Thanks Tommy - and to answer your question - the 4800A is ROCKING MY WORLD!  (sorry for shouting) Seriously, it is one incredibly sweet amp. Somebody a while back said something about "out of body euphoric". Well, I'll second that. A couple examples from two of my favorite recordings; Dave Holland's Prime Directive - so incredibly present, huge soundstage, everybody in their place with correct height, depth, you name it. The other is Chick Corea To The Stars which sounded great before but a little - maybe, harsh, that's not the right word exactly, but kind of edgy. Well, now it is sweet and majorly 3D - holographic even. I keep turning around because there are people playing behind me. There is a section in the first tune where everybody is trading fours - it is just plain wicked now. Everybody is lined up right in front of me blowing like crazy. I listened to it three times in a row just to make sure it was real. And the bass - holy smokes. You guys who heard the 4800A with the SP Tech speakers know what I am talking about. I have the Continuum's and I just received a set of Mini's from another AC member. If you think the 4800A sounds great with the Minis you should hear it with the Continuums, and I can only imagine what two of these in Mono would sound like through a pair of Revelations  :o
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: lonewolfny42 on 8 Mar 2009, 03:22 am
rms...
Quote
You guys who heard the 4800A with the SP Tech speakers know what I am talking about.

Yes...its a good match...and I think even Tommy was surprised.... 8)

Happy listening.... :beer:
Title: Brief note about this economy
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 9 Mar 2009, 01:26 am
While the "big guys" are hurting due to their huge overhead and large inventories, we are doing quite well and able to serve our customers even better these days.  The reason is simple --- we have already positioned ourselves to deliver quality product at low prices.  We don't spend our cash on trade shows, delivery of "free" units to reviewers, advertising (web or print), or "middle man" dealers.  We have received MANY invitations to do this, and we have rejected them all.  We focus on YOU, the customer.  So, we are listening to customers and able to make special deals to help them experience ultimate sound without breaking the bank.  In the meantime, our vendors are also helping us get parts at better-than-ever pricing.  We hope you appreciate this, and we hope you will give Digital Amp company a try.  Thanks for your time!

Best Regards,
Tommy O
Digital Amp Company
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: ted_b on 9 Mar 2009, 02:37 am
If you think the 4800A sounds great with the Minis you should hear it with the Continuums, and I can only imagine what two of these in Mono would sound like through a pair of Revelations  :o

I'm game!   :D  I could compare them to the Spectron Musician III Mark 2 monoblocks that currently power my fronts (SP Tech Revelations w/ ultimate Mundorf external crossovers).  How do I demo them?   :)
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mfsoa on 9 Mar 2009, 03:27 am
I get to hear a new Cherry Plus Tues at my place.   :thumb:

I'll let you know how it goes.


Ted, are you thinking of trying the 4800 or Cherry Plus?

I'd love to hear two Cherrys vertically biamp something...

-Mike
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mfsoa on 9 Mar 2009, 03:47 am
Quote
Thanks Tommy - and to answer your question - the 4800A is ROCKING MY WORLD!  (sorry for shouting) Seriously, it is one incredibly sweet amp. Somebody a while back said something about "out of body euphoric". Well, I'll second that. A couple examples from two of my favorite recordings; Dave Holland's Prime Directive - so incredibly present, huge soundstage, everybody in their place with correct height, depth, you name it. The other is Chick Corea To The Stars which sounded great before but a little - maybe, harsh, that's not the right word exactly, but kind of edgy. Well, now it is sweet and majorly 3D - holographic even. I keep turning around because there are people playing behind me. There is a section in the first tune where everybody is trading fours - it is just plain wicked now. Everybody is lined up right in front of me blowing like crazy. I listened to it three times in a row just to make sure it was real. And the bass - holy smokes. You guys who heard the 4800A with the SP Tech speakers know what I am talking about. I have the Continuum's and I just received a set of Mini's from another AC member. If you think the 4800A sounds great with the Minis you should hear it with the Continuums, and I can only imagine what two of these in Mono would sound like through a pair of Revelations   

It does not suprise me that you find the amp to be giddy-good   :thumb:

-Mike
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: ted_b on 9 Mar 2009, 04:44 am
I get to hear a new Cherry Plus Tues at my place.   :thumb:

I'll let you know how it goes.


Ted, are you thinking of trying the 4800 or Cherry Plus?

I'd love to hear two Cherrys vertically biamp something...

-Mike

I don't know.  I'm open to whatever.  Seems there is a good synergy with SP Techs and so I'd be willing to demo with my Revelations (monoblocks or biamped).
Title: Cherry PLUS price for March 2009 (while supplies last) --- AC Members only
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 9 Mar 2009, 06:34 am
We are going to sell a few Cherry PLUS units to AC members for $2400.  The list price will be $7200.  Email Support@DigitalAmp.com if you are interested.  First come, first served.  Once the first lot is sold, it will take months to build more due to component lead times.  Sorry, but this will end once the first few units are sold.  We also ask that buyers agree to provide a review of this fine amp, and no "AC newbies", please.  Thanks.

Regards,
Tommy
Title: Re: Cherry PLUS price for March 2009 (while supplies last) --- AC Members only
Post by: cab on 9 Mar 2009, 01:01 pm
We are going to sell a few Cherry PLUS units to AC members for $2400.  The list price will be $7200. 


Anyone else having a hard time understanding the pricing strategy?

Are you selling at a loss at $2400? Are you hoping to generate great reviews that will cause people to want to pony up $7200 for something that was sold for 1/3 of that?

Does the $7200 price have any rational relationship to manufacturing costs or was it chosen to make the $2400 price look like a great deal? After the deal is over, is the actual price of these going to be $7200? If not, maybe a list price of $10,000 would work even better!

Price gimmicks on equipment at these prices seems a bit out of place. Most reputable manufacturers set a stable price at a reasonable percentage above cost and offer small discounts as incentives for promotions. The way these are priced and marketed, I am holding out for the 2 for 1 deal with the bonus pack of ShamWows thrown in when I call the 800 number.....



Title: Re: Cherry PLUS price for March 2009 (while supplies last) --- AC Members only
Post by: RodMCV on 9 Mar 2009, 06:01 pm







Suit yourself.
Title: Re: Cherry PLUS price for March 2009 (while supplies last) --- AC Members only
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 9 Mar 2009, 09:52 pm
We are going to sell a few Cherry PLUS units to AC members for $2400.  The list price will be $7200. 


Are you selling at a loss at $2400? Are you hoping to generate great reviews that will cause people to want to pony up $7200 for something that was sold for 1/3 of that?



This is only for a few units to get them out for reaction and to help those who wouldn't normally be able to afford such a piece of equipment.  Thanks for your "kind" post.

Warm Regards,
Tommy
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: bummrush on 9 Mar 2009, 11:59 pm
What good is the purpose of a substantially high list price, then you kinda go off in a corner and say but boy do i ever have a deal on it at this price.I really dont get it.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: RodMCV on 10 Mar 2009, 01:18 am
If you don't get it, go rag on some other web page.

I have been into the circle awhile and Tommy is not the first Cottage designer to work this way, so whats the beef?

Concider the early adopters Beta testers, if that makes you feel better.

YMMV,

Rod
Title: Re: Cherry PLUS price for March 2009 (while supplies last) --- AC Members only
Post by: satfrat on 10 Mar 2009, 01:19 am
We are going to sell a few Cherry PLUS units to AC members for $2400.  The list price will be $7200. 


Anyone else having a hard time understanding the pricing strategy?

Are you selling at a loss at $2400? Are you hoping to generate great reviews that will cause people to want to pony up $7200 for something that was sold for 1/3 of that?

Does the $7200 price have any rational relationship to manufacturing costs or was it chosen to make the $2400 price look like a great deal? After the deal is over, is the actual price of these going to be $7200? If not, maybe a list price of $10,000 would work even better!

Price gimmicks on equipment at these prices seems a bit out of place. Most reputable manufacturers set a stable price at a reasonable percentage above cost and offer small discounts as incentives for promotions. The way these are priced and marketed, I am holding out for the 2 for 1 deal with the bonus pack of ShamWows thrown in when I call the 800 number.....





Let's face it cab, you have no intention of buying anything here, you're just running your mouth for the sake of running your mouth. :nono: I don't see where you're holding out in that respect. :lol:

While I do understand you're (and bummrush) questioning of a $7200 going for $2400 (many other audio businesses use the same strategy i'm afraid), $2400 is a very fair price from what I've heard from the Cherry's performance and Tommy deserves better than stupid trash talk from you. :thumbdown:

Cheers,
Robin
Title: only a few Cherry PLUS units at $2400
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 10 Mar 2009, 01:22 am
We care about our CUSTOMERS.  Such a deal is bound to make certain people (competitors?) upset.  Once again, this is a limited offer, and many of our customers have told us our amps are the best sounding amps they have ever heard, regardless of price.  Thanks to our customers and supporters, we have been very fortunate, and would not be able to sell anything at such a deep discount otherwise...
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: rms on 10 Mar 2009, 01:30 am
I agree with Robin. I have not met Tommy but I can tell you he has a great product that he is trying to get out there. I appreciate him offering a discounted price because I would not currently be enjoying such a phenomenal amplifier otherwise. I say grab one at a great price now or wish that you had.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: jman66 on 10 Mar 2009, 01:59 am
What good is the purpose of a substantially high list price, then you kinda go off in a corner and say but boy do i ever have a deal on it at this price.I really dont get it.

The "deal" is a limited offer to get the amp into AudioCircle members' hands at a price that fits the current economic conditions.
Tommy gets to sell amps - folks get a great deal. No different than the $$$ the auto makers are discounting at.
Would the reaction be the same if your favorite audio manufacturer presented the same offer strategy?
At this price, some folks are going to be able to grab an amp which could very well be their final amp and one that they could never afford at the regular price. A win-win situation.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: bummrush on 10 Mar 2009, 02:18 am
 Such a deal is bound to make certain people (competitors?) upset,,,,,,Previous from before,,,,,its like this line you throw in which is supposed to have some kind of basis in something,what ,who the heck knows what that even means.i doubt any competitors could care less.
Title: Re: Cherry PLUS price for March 2009 (while supplies last) --- AC Members only
Post by: opnly bafld on 10 Mar 2009, 02:22 am
We are going to sell a few Cherry PLUS units to AC members for $2400.  The list price will be $7200. 


Anyone else having a hard time understanding the pricing strategy?

Are you selling at a loss at $2400? Are you hoping to generate great reviews that will cause people to want to pony up $7200 for something that was sold for 1/3 of that?

Does the $7200 price have any rational relationship to manufacturing costs or was it chosen to make the $2400 price look like a great deal? After the deal is over, is the actual price of these going to be $7200? If not, maybe a list price of $10,000 would work even better!

Price gimmicks on equipment at these prices seems a bit out of place. Most reputable manufacturers set a stable price at a reasonable percentage above cost and offer small discounts as incentives for promotions. The way these are priced and marketed, I am holding out for the 2 for 1 deal with the bonus pack of ShamWows thrown in when I call the 800 number.....





I have a hard time understanding you cab.  :scratch:

From what I know of DAC and Tommy, I'd say they are reputable, maybe you meant "well established" manufacturers? There are several "reputable" direct to consumer manufacturers that I know of that sell new products at introductory prices. Manufacturers with a dealer network have to do things differently than a direct manufacturer.
I don't understand why you worry so much about DAC's business model, do you own stock?  :wink:
Say a pizzeria normally sells their medium pizza for $10 and this is viewed by many as a good value, if they decide to have a medium special once a week and sell it for $6, does this mean the other 6 days when the pizza is $10 is no longer a good value?
I cannot afford many of my favorite cars, but if a dealer (manufacturer) decided to sell me one at half price, I wouldn't complain, I'd buy the thing!

+1 on what others have posted in Tommy's defense.

Lin  :)
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: bummrush on 10 Mar 2009, 02:27 am
Point to me where any of your listings suggested a 7200 price.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: opnly bafld on 10 Mar 2009, 02:37 am
Point to me where any of your listings suggested a 7200 price.

We are going to sell a few Cherry PLUS units to AC members for $2400.  The list price will be $7200. Email Support@DigitalAmp.com if you are interested.  First come, first served.  Once the first lot is sold, it will take months to build more due to component lead times.  Sorry, but this will end once the first few units are sold.  We also ask that buyers agree to provide a review of this fine amp, and no "AC newbies", please.  Thanks.

Regards,
Tommy


Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: orientalexpress on 10 Mar 2009, 02:41 am
Man,i was cautious at first about DAC amp.i was giving a 30 day trial at no risk.when i first heard it,I go, Damn this amp is pretty good,Then i saw rydenfan post a Spectrons amp for sale,i was all over it because of alot great review on here and everywhere on the net.before the spectron amp arrive,i try to sell the DAC amp at $1100.00 ship.no one bite,then i hook up spectron amp and listen for awhile and i didn't like it as much,i thought something wrong with my ears,so i invited a couple friends come over the weekend,we're do A/B both amp using arcam 74t>>>MW transporter>>>AVA T-8>>>amp >>>>SP tech speakers.using Alison Krause,Rodrigo Gabriela,Fredric Chopin,Opus3 test CD.They're all said DAC sound better .i sold my spectron amp to Ironlion the next couple week.I'm happy ever since with this set up.Sometime the best way to compare amps is to have both amp on hand,I'm glad i never sold 4800A amp otherwise i don't have anything to compare with. :thumb:


lapsan
Title: Re: Cherry PLUS price for March 2009 (while supplies last) --- AC Members only
Post by: cab on 10 Mar 2009, 03:00 am
We are going to sell a few Cherry PLUS units to AC members for $2400.  The list price will be $7200. 


Anyone else having a hard time understanding the pricing strategy?

Are you selling at a loss at $2400? Are you hoping to generate great reviews that will cause people to want to pony up $7200 for something that was sold for 1/3 of that?

Does the $7200 price have any rational relationship to manufacturing costs or was it chosen to make the $2400 price look like a great deal? After the deal is over, is the actual price of these going to be $7200? If not, maybe a list price of $10,000 would work even better!

Price gimmicks on equipment at these prices seems a bit out of place. Most reputable manufacturers set a stable price at a reasonable percentage above cost and offer small discounts as incentives for promotions. The way these are priced and marketed, I am holding out for the 2 for 1 deal with the bonus pack of ShamWows thrown in when I call the 800 number.....





I have a hard time understanding you cab.  :scratch:

From what I know of DAC and Tommy, I'd say they are reputable, maybe you meant "well established" manufacturers? There are several "reputable" direct to consumer manufacturers that I know of that sell new products at introductory prices. Manufacturers with a dealer network have to do things differently than a direct manufacturer.
I don't understand why you worry so much about DAC's business model, do you own stock?  :wink:
Say a pizzeria normally sells their medium pizza for $10 and this is viewed by many as a good value, if they decide to have a medium special once a week and sell it for $6, does this mean the other 6 days when the pizza is $10 is no longer a good value?
I cannot afford many of my favorite cars, but if a dealer (manufacturer) decided to sell me one at half price, I wouldn't complain, I'd buy the thing!

+1 on what others have posted in Tommy's defense.

Lin  :)

I am not "worrying so much" about DAC's business model- I simply asked if others found this marketing plan odd. Your are right- there are certain things that are customarily sold with large discounts as promotions- pizza, pocket fisherman, extenzs, etc....I know of no high end audio manufacturer that sells a $7000+ component at a 67%+ discount as a promotion.

But hey, I hope he sells a ton of them....
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 10 Mar 2009, 10:56 am
Thanks, guys!
   :)

Tommy
Title: Re: Cherry PLUS price for March 2009 (while supplies last) --- AC Members only
Post by: opnly bafld on 10 Mar 2009, 11:26 am

I am not "worrying so much" about DAC's business model- I simply asked if others found this marketing plan odd. Your are right- there are certain things that are customarily sold with large discounts as promotions- pizza, pocket fisherman, extenzs, etc....I know of no high end audio manufacturer that sells a $7000+ component at a 67%+ discount as a promotion.

But hey, I hope he sells a ton of them....

My point was not about comparing apples to oranges (or stereo equipment to pizza), but perceived value.
For a number of people $7200 for a top quality amp is not out of line (take a look at what is out there at this price point and even higher). What a manufacturer sets the list price at is up to them and if they want to sell a few units below cost to get more of their product out to build a name for themselves that is also up to them.
At times manufacturers (and others) do things that I don't understand or agree with, but I don't post (multiple times) bashing them for their decisions.

Lin  :)
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: rms on 10 Mar 2009, 12:24 pm
Hey Tommy - I'm afraid my emails are not getting through to you. Could you please call Tim at Luminous Audio;

Luminous Audio Technology
1312 N Parham Rd
Richmond, VA 23229
(804) 741-5826

He needs more detail about the amp to be able to properly configure the Axiom attenuator for me. Please give him the specs for the 4800A and the Cherry Plus.

And you have my email address - if possible could you also give me an alternate way to contact you?
I am interested in purchasing another amp.

Thanks,
Mitch
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: ted_b on 10 Mar 2009, 01:00 pm
Hopefully emails are getting through, cuz his PM box is full!
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: CSI on 10 Mar 2009, 01:17 pm

I'm not sure if the debate here is about Tommy's pricing strategy, his business model or just about the annoyance of a poster who is uncomfortable with the deep discount approach. Before I give you my 2c worth I can tell you, as a Cherry amp user, the performance of the amp is amazingly good-competitive with everything I've heard. As for his business practices, he has plenty of happy customers and supports them fully with technical backup. As for his sales model, is it odd? No. Is it unusual? Yes, but not that unusual. Check out the pricing strategy that Paul over at TADAC uses for instance. Pricing is always strategic and not necessarily related to the cost of goods plus a set markup. I remember when Porsche raised all their prices substantially. They told the business press that, for their clientele, a high price was a feature. It worked. Their sales went up.

As for the deep discount, consider this. Tommy probably hopes that by getting a few AC'ers to buy his amp at a very attractive price they will discover how good it is and post their impressions here. The more of that happens the more likely he is to sell amps to the general public.

There is an undertone of criticism in all this that this approach is somehow illegitimate. Well, we all know that many larger mfg. "loan" their gear to pro reviewers without expecting to get it back in every case. I've also heard of mfg. selling their expensive gear to reviewers for cents on the dollar. We are also aware that if you work in the business - even peripherally - or know someone who does you can often get an "accommodation" discount which can be up to 1/2 price. These are all "strategies" designed to get the products into the hands of the influentials. If they make you uncomfortable, move on. Or call 911 like the Chicken McNuggets lady. But don't waste your time bashing a guy whose trying to make a living.
Title: slight delay...
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 11 Mar 2009, 11:25 am
Thanks, all, and sorry for any delay in communication.  We are getting lots of email.  I'll try to clean my PM box soon (use the regular support@DigitalAmp.com for now)...  ;)
-Tommy
Title: some parts in short supply
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 14 Mar 2009, 06:41 pm
All,

Regarding the $2400 deal on the Cherry PLUS...

1. We are running out of silkscreened faceplates.  We silk screen them separately and there is a lead time.

We have ONE Cherry PLUS in stock, but the faceplate is "blank".  The remaining silkscreened faceplates are for non-PLUS Cherry units.  We can build another one or two units to order, then the intro deal is over.

2. We are running out of remote jack wire assemblies.

The remaining stock Cherry PLUS unit doesn't have the remote jack.  We are trying to get them in ASAP but if you want this unit without the jack, it can ship right away.

3. We have no 230VAC transformers in stock.  The lead time is about 8 weeks, and we order as necessary.

All units are now 120VAC only.  We also have a few DAC4800As in stock, by the way.  It is possible to modify these to be nearly identical to the Cherry or even Cherry PLUS.  It will still look like a DAC4800A, however, with the front LEDs and standby button.  Send an email to Support@DigitalAmp.com if you are interested.  Thanks.

-Tommy
Title: Re: slight delay...
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 15 Mar 2009, 12:01 am
Thanks, all, and sorry for any delay in communication.  We are getting lots of email.  I'll try to clean my PM box soon (use the regular support@DigitalAmp.com for now)...  ;)
-Tommy


Back up and running with direct email, and cleaned my PM inbox too...
-Tommy
Title: Comments on Cherry PLUS ! ! !
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 15 Mar 2009, 09:10 pm
See here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=65976.new#new

This is the first Cherry PLUS review.

Thanks.

-Tommy
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: jwes on 15 Mar 2009, 10:11 pm
Tommy,

Congrats - looks nice!  I went a somewhat similar route - Spectron Musician III Mk2's run in mono.  Happy to see more high quality choices in the Class D/digital/switching variety surfacing...

Jim
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 15 Mar 2009, 11:16 pm
Tommy,

Congrats - looks nice!  I went a somewhat similar route - Spectron Musician III Mk2's run in mono.  Happy to see more high quality choices in the Class D/digital/switching variety surfacing...

Jim
Thanks, Jim.  Scan through if you have time, and see Lapsan's (orientalexpress) comments...
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mittg on 22 Mar 2009, 02:46 pm
I own a DAC CHERRY amp. It powers my Apogee Cal Sig's. Operation is flawless. The sound repro is the clearest I have ever operated. Over the years I have used mostly tubes, Cary, Conrad Johnson and Manley. Currently I have a few of these amps to compare. Without exception the Dac Cherry reproduces music clearer and with a wider spectrum.  As far as Tommys business model is concerned that is up to him. An entreprenur takes risks. If he has to sell at or below cost to get his product noticed, so be it. I am the lucky beneficiary. You can be too. He is a trustworthy intelligent individual. Highly recommended product. :thumb:
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 22 Mar 2009, 05:45 pm
I own a DAC CHERRY amp. It powers my Apogee Cal Sig's. Operation is flawless. The sound repro is the clearest I have ever operated. Over the years I have used mostly tubes, Cary, Conrad Johnson and Manley. Currently I have a few of these amps to compare. Without exception the Dac Cherry reproduces music clearer and with a wider spectrum.  As far as Tommys business model is concerned that is up to him. An entreprenur takes risks. If he has to sell at or below cost to get his product noticed, so be it. I am the lucky beneficiary. You can be too. He is a trustworthy intelligent individual. Highly recommended product. :thumb:
Thanks for your kind post!
BR,
Tommy
Title: cross-threads
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 22 Mar 2009, 11:36 pm
Some cross threads (mentioning Cherry or DAC4800A amps):

Cherry PLUS review:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=65976.new#new

66.6% off deal (expired):
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=61890.new#new

Mini Rave April 2009:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=66238.new#new

Musica Bella Purity Extreme Preamp:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=62271.new#new

NYAR, SEPT 2008:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=59355.new#new

NYAR, OCT 2008:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=60190.new#new
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: JDarby - Stereomojo.com on 26 Mar 2009, 02:35 pm
Hello,

This is James Darby, publisher of Stereomojo.com.  I've looked at your homepage and read the posts here. We have a special area of expertise in "digital" amps per our internationally praised shootout in 2007 of 11 different such amps. We also have a review of the Spectron Musician MkIII pending. A pair was sent to us to use as monoblocks for review. We would be interested in doing a formal review of one of your amps (you may choose). If you are interested, please contact me at:

publisher@stereomojo.com

Thanks
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 4 May 2009, 07:15 pm
Hello,

This is James Darby, publisher of Stereomojo.com.  I've looked at your homepage and read the posts here. We have a special area of expertise in "digital" amps per our internationally praised shootout in 2007 of 11 different such amps. We also have a review of the Spectron Musician MkIII pending. A pair was sent to us to use as monoblocks for review. We would be interested in doing a formal review of one of your amps (you may choose). If you are interested, please contact me at:

publisher@stereomojo.com

Thanks
James,
We have been rather quiet lately, as you can see.  We ran out of hardware, and we've been working to fix that.  Lots of custom stuff in the Cherry and DAC4800A.  Anyway, did you get our email last month about a demo unit?  You might want to read early in this thread about our thought on "formal reviews".  We have been looking for a different kind of publication than a Stereophile type of venue.  In your opinion, aside from the print aspect, what is the biggest difference between Stereomojo and the other product review sites?  Thanks again for your post.
Title: www.DigitalAmp.com site updates / newsletter due out soon
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 11 May 2009, 08:23 pm
We just updated our site to include the Cherry PLUS, a few new reviews, and "inside the box" pictures of the Cherry and Cherry PLUS...  Here's a direct link to the new Cherry PLUS page:
http://www.DigitalAmp.com/Cherry_PLUS_amp.htm

We have a newsletter coming out very soon (tomorrow?), so if you aren't a subscriber, please join ASAP.  There will be an awesome deal on some demo units.  As you already know if you're a subscriber, we send out very few newsletters (only a few per year).  Here's the link to subscribe:
http://www.DigitalAmp.com/news.htm

Thanks, everybody!

-Tommy
Title: Newsletter went out yesterday
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 13 May 2009, 12:01 pm
Hey, everybody.  Our newsletter went out yesterday.

If you didn't receive it, fill out the form here, and we'll forward a copy:
http://www.digitalamp.com/news.htm

And for those who did received the newsletter, yes, we realize there was a [minor] typo.  Sorry about that.  Thanks.
Title: lower power Cherry???
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 28 Jun 2009, 04:44 am
We received so many questions about lower power amps over the last few years.  The DAC4800A, Cherry, and Cherry PLUS all put out more than 1000W total (500Wpc).

We are now working on a new model, the Cherry jr, with a smaller and lighter transformer.  It still puts out plenty of power at 180Wpc into 8 ohms and 360Wpc into 4 ohms.  SNR is still more than 110dB.  The sound is just as fast and dynamic as Class-A at high levels and and just as smooth and detailed as tubes at low levels.  We plan an early adopter special before this model goes up on DigitalAmp.com.  Pricing is not set at this point.  If you would like to receive news about availability, please sign up for our confidential newsletter here:
http://www.DigitalAmp.com/news.htm

By the way, we have one Cherry demo unit available (not the Cherry PLUS).  Thanks, and hope you are all well.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: Big Red Machine on 28 Jun 2009, 04:48 am
Get an error when I try to sign up for email and hit enter.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 28 Jun 2009, 05:20 am
Get an error when I try to sign up for email and hit enter.

Sorry about that!!!  It seems there is something wrong on the host server, and we are trying to resolve it ASAP.

In the meantime, just send me a private Audio Circle message with your first and last name and I'll add you to the list.

Thanks for the heads up.
Title: no PMs?
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 28 Jun 2009, 05:25 am
Crap!  It looks like the PM system is not working on AC!  Is this a known issue since the re-do?
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: Big Red Machine on 28 Jun 2009, 11:40 am
Yes.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=68842.40
Title: Re: lower power Cherry???
Post by: Big Red Machine on 28 Jun 2009, 05:32 pm
We received so many questions about lower power amps over the last few years.  The DAC4800A, Cherry, and Cherry PLUS all put out more than 1000W total (500Wpc).

We are now working on a new model, the Cherry jr, with a smaller and lighter transformer.  It still puts out plenty of power at 180Wpc into 8 ohms and 360Wpc into 4 ohms.  SNR is still more than 110dB.  The sound is just as fast and dynamic as Class-A at high levels and and just as smooth and detailed as tubes at low levels.  We plan an early adopter special before this model goes up on DigitalAmp.com.  Pricing is not set at this point.  If you would like to receive news about availability, please sign up for our confidential newsletter here:
http://www.DigitalAmp.com/news.htm

By the way, we have one Cherry demo unit available (not the Cherry PLUS).  Thanks, and hope you are all well.

I have a 4800A and am very impressed with it.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: satfrat on 28 Jun 2009, 05:47 pm
You are you using for the front end of your DAC4800A BRM? Thanks.
 
Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: Big Red Machine on 28 Jun 2009, 06:21 pm
TP into an Electrocompaniet 4.5 preamp.

Waiting on the return of my Bella Purity pre from Bill to try that out.  Also am selling the TP and going with a SB and maybe an AudioSector DAC.  I canceled the order for the EC ECD1 DAC after seeing how much to mod it.

While using the Archos speakers I have to calm the system down as they are very unforgiving with stock TP's or I assume very analytical DACs.  I'm hoping the NOS AS DAC will be the ticket.  I usually like more detailed electronics but staying short of tubed DACs this might work.

That 4800 is absolutely the 600 lb. gorilla in the room.  Way more instantaneously powerful than the Wyred amps.  The 600 hp Corvette that can light the tires up in all gears.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: satfrat on 28 Jun 2009, 06:33 pm
TP into an Electrocompaniet 4.5 preamp.

Waiting on the return of my Bella Purity pre from Bill to try that out.  Also am selling the TP and going with a SB and maybe an AudioSector DAC.  I canceled the order for the EC ECD1 DAC after seeing how much to mod it.

While using the Archos speakers I have to calm the system down as they are very unforgiving with stock TP's or I assume very analytical DACs.  I'm hoping the NOS AS DAC will be the ticket.  I usually like more detailed electronics but staying short of tubed DACs this might work.

That 4800 is absolutely the 600 lb. gorilla in the room.  Way more instantaneously powerful than the Wyred amps.  The 600 hp Corvette that can light the tires up in all gears.

I'm betting you're gonna like the Bella Purity pre with the 4800. I absolutely love this crystal clear sounding amp with tube's in front of it. Maybe a little too much clear with solid stage front end (depending on the loudspeaker being used) but you gotta love that crystal clear presentation when a little pinch of warmth is injected into the mix. Hopefully you'll post something when you get that Musica Bella Purity pre.  :D
 
Cheers,
Robin
Title: Cherry jr / PMs
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 2 Jul 2009, 12:16 pm
Thanks, guys, for the comments on the 4800A.  The Cherry jr is a lot like the 4800A sonically.

Anyway, I have received a few PMs already, so they must be working for some people.  We're still having a hard time with our site host (WebAir) regarding the newsletter page.  This happened before.  Suddenly, something stops working on our site without any changes on our part.  Hopefully, WebAir will fix this today.

If you don't want to send a PM, just email DACSales@DigitalAmp.com with your first and last name in the message.  Thanks again...
Title: Re: Cherry jr / PMs
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 4 Jul 2009, 05:11 am
If you don't want to send a PM, just email DACSales@DigitalAmp.com with your first and last name in the message.  Thanks again...

In fact, I'm receiving AC messages, but can't seem to send them (or reply), so please use email for now (address above).  I have notified the "sys op"...  Thanks.
Title: Happy 4th
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 4 Jul 2009, 06:17 pm
Just wishing all fellow Americans a happy and safe July 4th holiday!
Title: Can now send or reply to AC private messages
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 6 Jul 2009, 04:56 pm
I can now send (and reply to) personal messages on AC.  I went through several computers before this would work, and Google Chrome seemed to work on a PC where IE didn't.  Hmmmm.

Anyway, we're getting closer to "Cherry jr" day, so let us know if you are interested...

Thanks, all.
Title: Cherry demo unit available
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 18 Jul 2009, 05:55 pm
Special low price on a Cherry demo.  It's in perfect shape with less than 100 hours of use.  Here's the link:
http://www.digitalamp.com/Cherry_amp2_spec_may2009.htm

It's the same link as we used for our subscriber only offer in May.  You don't need to be a newsletter subscriber to use the link now.

By the way, we are still working on a fix for our newsletter form.  Webair said they will move the site to another server, and we are waiting for that.  So, if you want to subscribe, just send me a private message.  Thanks.
Title: Cherry Demo
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 20 Jul 2009, 01:46 am
I opened up this new thread:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=69956.msg650888#msg650888
Title: Cherry jr
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 22 Jul 2009, 12:07 pm
We have been asked about a release date for Cherry jr, but we don't have one yet.  Probably in a month or so...  Thanks.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: ooheadsoo on 9 Aug 2009, 08:49 am
I just acquired a 4800a from Lapsan (orientalexpress.) 

I love this amp already.  Did someone say 600lb. gorilla?  Maybe the 600hp Corvette is the more apt image, because the finesse and clarity is there, too.  Maybe M3?  M6?  Bass?  I turned off my subwoofers when I fired up this amp to hear what it can do unadultered.  I haven't turned my subs on since.  I don't want do deal with their mud.  This bass is clean and tight.  I feel like I should hook my previous amp back up to give it something more of a head to head comparison - but I can't be bothered.  The 4800a is some serious stuff.  I think I'm ready for the SPTech TP3.0s whenever they arrive.  I am experiencing some fatigue when listening at moderately high levels for extended periods, but this is not unusual in and of itself.  I have sensitive ears that are easily fatigued - what is unusual is the desire to keep turning it up!

Speakers: SPTech AV-2
Preamp: Nuforce P8
Source: Emu1212m

Important - the supplied adapters created an awful hum.  Some XLR mic cables from the Nuforce P8 to the 4800a fixed the problem.  Lapsan told me that RCA to XLR cables also work well, for those who do not have balanced output from their preamp.

Monty Alexander - My America, Telarc, has some explosive microdynamics.  The AV-2 are sealed and I never thought they had much bass heft, but they're strutting their stuff on this CD/amplifier combo.  Take this with a grain of salt, I just bought this CD and have not listened to it with any other system.

But I don't think it's just this CD.  This amplifier has some serious control and it's energy efficient, too?  Get outta here!  :o
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: Big Red Machine on 9 Aug 2009, 01:57 pm
Effortless power, huh!? 8)
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: rms on 9 Aug 2009, 03:56 pm
"The 4800a is some serious stuff.  I think I'm ready for the SPTech TP3.0s whenever they arrive."


Hey ooheadsoo, you are going to love the 4800a with the TP 3.0's. It sounds incredibly sweet with my Continuum's. The bass is phenomenal, the soundstage is huge, every note is crystaline and not remotely fatiguing. I can listen to it all day and it sounds just as exquisite after 8 hours.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: orientalexpress on 9 Aug 2009, 06:54 pm
i doing moonwalk as i listening michael jackson thriller album.4800a is a great amp but i have to give up something to get something :thumb:.oh btw,cherry plus is freaking awsome.if 4800a go to 11,cherry plus amp go to 15. :thumb:



lapsan
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: lonewolfny42 on 9 Aug 2009, 07:02 pm
Tommy's amps work very well with the SP Tech speakers....as you've been hearing. Strong point about the SP Tech's...they love good clean power...and really shine when its available...and his amps deliver that in spades...happy listening !

                     Chris
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: aaron smithski on 11 Aug 2009, 09:23 pm
Does anybody know how well the 4800a would handle a difficult to drive speaker? I have a pair of Martin Logan CLS IIa electrostats that need something with serious b@ll$ to drive them.  :green:
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: Big Red Machine on 11 Aug 2009, 10:37 pm
Tommy?

I'm pretty sure they have enough b@ll$, but Tommy would be best to pipe in unless another estat owner is wandering by.

I had Acoustat 3300's in the 90's.  Loved 'em.  Drove them with a Hafler XL600.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 13 Aug 2009, 03:35 pm
Does anybody know how well the 4800a would handle a difficult to drive speaker? I have a pair of Martin Logan CLS IIa electrostats that need something with serious b@ll$ to drive them.  :green:

In a word, "excellent".  We have customers driving Acoustat and Quads (said to be the most difficult load) with great results --- loads of immediate power, superb detail, and wide imaging.  Thanks.

Best Regards,
Tommy
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 13 Aug 2009, 06:48 pm
$2000 for a Cherry demo unit with smaller transformer:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=69956.new#new

Send a PM if interested.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 14 Aug 2009, 06:52 am
Interesting thread on digital amps:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=70716.msg658872;topicseen#new

Feel free to chime in, especially if you own a Cherry or DAC4800A...

Thanks, all.
Title: fix for newsletter form --- sign up for info on Cherry jr release
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 16 Aug 2009, 02:10 am
Our site host finally fixed the newsletter form, but it's pretty much a kludge since we can't edit it.

If you are interested in getting info on our Cherry jr release and a link to purchase at the introductory price, please use the form here:
http://www.DigitalAmp.com/news.htm

Thanks.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 22 Aug 2009, 06:10 pm
$2000 for a Cherry demo unit with smaller transformer:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=69956.new#new

Send a PM if interested.

Thanks!

That unit has sold.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: ooheadsoo on 24 Aug 2009, 04:52 am
Tommy, got a question for you.

I've got a pair of SP Tech Timepieces coming, and I understand you have a little experience with SP Techs, yourself, from the NYAR raves.

What are the advantages and disadvantages of each scenario:

1) 1 x Cherry (Cherry Plus?)

vs

2) 2 x DAC4800A bridged
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: WG on 24 Aug 2009, 02:10 pm
I was curious as to the specs on these speakers but no longer can find their Circle nor was able to connect to the manufacturer's website for SP Tech.  I haven't checked in on these for awhile--is something going on with them?

Thanks,
Will
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: TF1216 on 24 Aug 2009, 03:08 pm
Hi WG,

Try Aether Audio.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=69758.0
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: WG on 24 Aug 2009, 04:25 pm
tf121682,

Thank you,
Will
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 26 Aug 2009, 11:04 pm
Tommy, got a question for you.

I've got a pair of SP Tech Timepieces coming, and I understand you have a little experience with SP Techs, yourself, from the NYAR raves.

What are the advantages and disadvantages of each scenario:

1) 1 x Cherry (Cherry Plus?)

vs

2) 2 x DAC4800A bridged

Actually, I'd recommend Cherry or Cherry PLUS over bridged DAC4800As.  Our amps bridged are more comfortable with higher impedances (like 8 ohms).  I heard that the impedance of the SP Tech Timepieces can go very low.  Can you send an impedance curve?  Thanks.

Warm Regards,
Tommy
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: ooheadsoo on 27 Aug 2009, 01:26 am
I don't think they drop much below 8ohms, but I'll see if I can find out.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: RodMCV on 27 Aug 2009, 01:42 am
I think the Time Piece is 8 ohms with fairly flat Impedence and Phase.
The Revolution is 4 Ohms and similar as a little drop into 3 ohms but not deep(fairly flat too).

Rod
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: rms on 27 Aug 2009, 02:02 am
ooheadsoo - I think you will be mighty amazed by what the 4800A will do with your TP's. It absolutely rocks my Continuums. I haven't heard a Cherry yet but if you are able to buy one please do. I want to know what you think of that with the Timepiece's!
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: ooheadsoo on 28 Aug 2009, 01:48 am
I absolutely will do once the TPs arrive.

So, I couldn't get my hands on the impedance graph, but Bob of SPTech (Aether Audio) says that the impedance never drops below the dcr of the woofer, which is 6.1 ohms.

So, Tommy, back to the original question - 2 DAC4800A bridged or 1 Cherry?
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 30 Aug 2009, 05:14 pm
So, Tommy, back to the original question - 2 DAC4800A bridged or 1 Cherry?
I recommend Cherry or Cherry PLUS over bridged DAC4800As.  This is more cost effective and probably plenty of power.  You may be surprised since recommending bridged amps would mean selling more amps (!), but we haven't heard from any customers verifying that double bridged amps will work better.  I'd like to know if anyone has tried this...  Thanks.
Best Regards,
Tommy
Title: web site messed up
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 30 Aug 2009, 05:21 pm
We have had even more problems with our site host, and now all the navigation disappeared from the site!  Any web site experts out there???

We are now working with a local company to develop a totally new site.

If you're interested in buying an amp, please email DACSales@DigitalAmp.com.  We'll keep you posted...
Title: new web site very soon!
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 2 Sep 2009, 03:12 am
As many of you know, our website has been down for a while, but the new one is due out soon --- possibly by the end of the week...

Best Regards,
Tommy
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: ooheadsoo on 8 Sep 2009, 05:11 am
Tommy - I just ran across a problem and I have no idea at all if it's caused by your amp or not.  Unfortunately, I don't have enough spare parts to trouble shoot it all and I'm not exactly handy with a multimeter.

So I just wanted to ask if you've ever encountered this situation before.  One day after...enjoying...my sound system with the dac4800a, I noticed the sound in the left speaker starting to sound like it was cutting out intermittently.  After a while, the sound in the left channel just became much much softer than the right side.  If I flip the balance all the way over to the left and turn it up, it doesn't sound like the frequency response of the speaker is changed, it's just 50 or more decibels softer than the right side (db figure according to the pc sound card balance interface.)  When changing sources, the problem persists.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 8 Sep 2009, 05:51 am
Tommy - I just ran across a problem and I have no idea at all if it's caused by your amp or not.  Unfortunately, I don't have enough spare parts to trouble shoot it all and I'm not exactly handy with a multimeter.

So I just wanted to ask if you've ever encountered this situation before.  One day after...enjoying...my sound system with the dac4800a, I noticed the sound in the left speaker starting to sound like it was cutting out intermittently.  After a while, the sound in the left channel just became much much softer than the right side.  If I flip the balance all the way over to the left and turn it up, it doesn't sound like the frequency response of the speaker is changed, it's just 50 or more decibels softer than the right side (db figure according to the pc sound card balance interface.)  When changing sources, the problem persists.

Can you try another source (preamp or audio device with volume control)?  Even an iPod can help with inital troubleshooting in this sense.

Can you see if the protect LEDs are going on (they are red)?  Did you try switching the speakers -- left/right?

Was the amp shipped recently?  Are you the original owner?  Please send a PM with purchase details if so (don't publish them here).  Thanks for helping us debug the problem with you.

Regards,
Tommy
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mfsoa on 8 Sep 2009, 12:52 pm
OOhead-

A wild guess here - Are you using RCA to XLR adapters?  Maybe something is loose in there - I have been able to jiggle mine and sometimes get some cut-out effects.

I just realized after making many positive comments re the DAC amps that I have still not heard one with what I consider to be worthy-quality balanced cables pre to amp. I have always used adapters w/ minimal interconnect swapping/optimization and so there may be more to be had than I've gotten so far.

Best of luck

-Mike
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: ooheadsoo on 8 Sep 2009, 01:19 pm
I'm using a pair of pro audio xlr microphone cables.  After a bit of cable swapping, I'm half certain the problem has been narrowed down to either my speaker cables or the amp.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 10 Sep 2009, 06:04 pm
I'm using a pair of pro audio xlr microphone cables.  After a bit of cable swapping, I'm half certain the problem has been narrowed down to either my speaker cables or the amp.
So everybody knows, we are now working on this behind the scenes...
Title: Prototype Web Site
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 10 Sep 2009, 06:06 pm
We now have a new web site, but it's only a prototype so far.  Please take a look and send me a PM if you have comments.  We're with a new host and a new site designer now, so it may take a while to get everything just the way we want it.  Enjoy...

Here's the address:
http://www.digitalamp.com/Index.html

Thanks!
Title: Cherry PLUS at a rave today?
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 12 Sep 2009, 02:39 pm
I'm waiting for confirmation from Mike (mfsoa)...

He might bring a Cherry PLUS demo unit to a rave today:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=70475.msg669318;topicseen#new

I'm going to a wedding and can't make it to this rave.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: ooheadsoo on 13 Sep 2009, 12:50 am
I did as Tommy asked me to and the problem seem to be resolved.
Title: new DAC4800A and Cherry units for sale...
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 5 Oct 2009, 12:47 am
Getting ready to put up several amps for sale...

We have a DAC4800A demo with only a slight ding in the rear top corner of the box.  Nearly unnoticeable...  This unit has the bigger power supply caps.

We also have a new Cherry PLUS in stock, including new gold input connectors, premium speaker connectors, and the newest hardware/chassis.  More to come...
Title: Major Product Line Update
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 19 Oct 2009, 12:20 am
We have updated our product line.  All models now have the bigger power supply caps, bigger heat sinks, new motherboard, and new super-heavy-duty chassis.

Here are some pictures...

New DAC4800A back:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=22904)

New Cherry jr back:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=22903)
(new premium gold binding posts)

New Cherry PLUS back:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=22902)
(new ultra-premium insulated gold binding posts, new gold XLRs)

New DAC4800A front:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=22906)

New Cherry FRONT (all Cherry models look the same from the front):
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=22905)

Sorry we don't have high quality photos just yet, but we're working on that.

We have several units in stock, and we're willing to sell them at a deep discount for AC members, so send a PM if you're interested.

Thanks to all.
Title: Re: Major Product Line Update
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 19 Oct 2009, 02:22 am
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=22909)

Title: Some demos in stock
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 20 Oct 2009, 12:29 pm
We now have a DAC4800A demo in stock (old chassis, old motherboard) as well as a Cherry demo amp (old chassis, old motherboard).  Let me know if you are interested with a PM.  Thanks.
Title: At the Oct. 24th Rave...
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 25 Oct 2009, 08:53 pm
Plenty of Cherry Amp mentions here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=71724.msg685600;topicseen#new
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: Bill Baker on 27 Oct 2009, 05:44 pm
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=23248)
Title: !!! Special Digital Amp Co Deals for November Only !!!
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 31 Oct 2009, 05:42 pm
For AC members ONLY, and only for the month of November.  These links are for NEW amps, as described by my recent posts.  Offer good until we sell off current inventory...

Cherry PLUS for $3600 (half price):
http://www.digitalamp.com/spec/New_Cherry_PLUS_AC_Nov_09.htm

Cherry for $2400 (60% off):
http://www.digitalamp.com/spec/New_Cherry_AC_Nov_09.htm

Cherry jr for $1800 (half price):
http://www.digitalamp.com/spec/New_Cherry_jr_AC_Nov_09.htm

DAC4800A for $1800 (half price):
http://www.digitalamp.com/spec/New_DAC4800A_AC_Nov_09.htm
Title: Special Edition Cherry
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 31 Oct 2009, 06:13 pm
We also have a special unit available here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=73119.msg688123#msg688123
Title: Re: Special Edition Cherry
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 25 Nov 2009, 03:22 am
We also have a special unit available here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=73119.msg688123#msg688123

That unit has sold.

We are also out of the DAC4800A for now, but we still have a few Cherry jr and Cherry amps left at the special price mentioned above.

Only one Cherry PLUS left at the special price now...

Title: Interesting thread!
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 25 Nov 2009, 04:26 am
An interesting thread (see my comments) for fans of our amps:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=73991.msg698555#msg698555

Had to put in my 2 cents...

More power usually comes with a few compromises, such as zero-crossing distortion, transient distortion, and noise.  We worked for decades to find a solution to these issues and think we've found it.  Doing so is not cheap, but it doesn't need to be outrageously expensive either.

A quick word about zero crossing distortion...  At low levels, high power Class-AB amps have real issues controlling a reactive load.  Imagine driving a car where the middle 10 degrees or so of steering wheel rotation has no effect on the direction of the car.

Regarding noise, the more power output, the louder the same noise figure (dB) with respect to maximum power sounds.  There's no magic, so you need really good SNR to sound good at low levels with high max power.

Another concern is peak output delivery.  If you can put out 100A into 4 ohms momentarily (micro- or milli-seconds), this is equivalent to 40,000W!  The path from the power supply to the speaker needs to be as direct as possible to provide clean peaks.

This is just touching on the subject, but hope it clears up a few issues that are commonly misunderstood.  Thanks for reading it!
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: Barry_NJ on 25 Nov 2009, 05:29 am
Plenty of Cherry Amp mentions here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=71724.msg685600;topicseen#new


I was at this Rave meet last month and got a chance to really hear what these Cherry amps can do. I was really quite impressed. Mike's main system with the Krell CD player, VAC Pre-Amp, and Van Schweikert VR4JR Sounded great. There was powerful bass, an open mid-range and an airy, detailed, and still smooth treble.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=23160)

In the second system, there were a few different amps in and out of the system through out the day, and the Cherry Jr. Was superior in every way, to every other amp we heard there.
It really brought those Harbeth speakers to life...

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=23161)

I'm anxious to hear what my Gallo's can do with a Cherry driving them.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mfsoa on 25 Nov 2009, 01:51 pm
Barry,

Sorry, dude, you're wrong -

It's not the Krell or Cherry, it's the approximately 6' of diffusion/absorption I place just inboard of each of my right speakers.

The degree of forearm dampening on the top of each speaker is also critical.  :lol:

-Mike
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mcullinan on 25 Nov 2009, 02:34 pm
I havent sat down with the Cherry amps to really make a confident assessment (Though what I heard sounded good!), but I can tell you that Tommy is a great guy and willing to personalize any amp he makes for the customer, and he is the real deal.
Mike
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mfsoa on 25 Nov 2009, 06:44 pm
I felt that I maybe went out on a limb a little bit the first time I heard a Cherry, proclaiming it to be the real deal despite not having heard nearly as many different amps as many of you have. There was some sort of rightness to my ears, and a degree of imaging precision that I really found to be amazing.

So each time I hear someone else who was pleased with the Cherry lineup's sound I give a brief "whew" and think that my ears might not be too bad after all!

There's this audiophile phenomenon that when you demo your system to friends (or a LOT of friends like at a Rave) that your system sounds a bit off to you, and jeez you guys should have heard it last week, it was singin' but now there's just something not quite right etc...  But I gotta say I've never heard my system sound better than at the Oct. Rave, a sentiment kindly shared to me by many Ravers. Unfortunately I had to return the Krell and the balanced TARA cables and put my Rotel CDP back in so the SQ took a noticable step backwards  :(.

Certainly if the Cherry amps were crummy there's no way 20+ really serious audiophiles would have to listen to it at very loud volumes for hours and hours and come away pleased with the overall sound quality.

-Mike
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: satfrat on 25 Nov 2009, 07:10 pm
I felt that I maybe went out on a limb a little bit the first time I heard a Cherry, proclaiming it to be the real deal despite not having heard nearly as many different amps as many of you have. There was some sort of rightness to my ears, and a degree of imaging precision that I really found to be amazing.

So each time I hear someone else who was pleased with the Cherry lineup's sound I give a brief "whew" and think that my ears might not be too bad after all!

There's this audiophile phenomenon that when you demo your system to friends (or a LOT of friends like at a Rave) that your system sounds a bit off to you, and jeez you guys should have heard it last week, it was singin' but now there's just something not quite right etc...  But I gotta say I've never heard my system sound better than at the Oct. Rave, a sentiment kindly shared to me by many Ravers. Unfortunately I had to return the Krell and the balanced TARA cables and put my Rotel CDP back in so the SQ took a noticable step backwards  :( .

Certainly if the Cherry amps were crummy there's no way 20+ really serious audiophiles would have to listen to it at very loud volumes for hours and hours and come away pleased with the overall sound quality.

-Mike

I hear ya Mike. I remember when your system was all VAC and as nice as it did sound, I didn't like the "soft" limited sound stage. Now this was like 2 years ago and I haven't had the chance to hear your present system with the upgraded Cherry but from what I remember from that RAVE 2 years ago when you 1st tried out Tommy's 4800 in your system, I remember there was a stark sound stage improvement, both in clarity, dynamics and in the actual depth of the sound stage itself. There have been times when I've heard this amp with a SS pre and I find the sound to simply be too much of a good thing (read listeners fatigue) but when paired with a tubed pre, there's added body to the already crsip clear sound and it does sound good,, really good. :thumb: And for speakers that like lots of power that the Cherry provides, things get really interesting @ high volumes. I can well imagine with the continuing refinements Tommy has made to his powerful amplfiers, the good things I remember hearing have only gotten better.  8)
 
Cheers,
Robin
Title: improvements
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 25 Nov 2009, 08:03 pm
Thanks to all who posted such nice comments recently!   :D

Like Robin guessed, there have been several improvements over just the last year, such as:
   - new motherboard (lots better about it like larger heat sinks, beefier traces, etc.)
   - improved input stage
   - bigger power supply caps
   - even more powerful transformers
   - new "rock solid" chassis with available premium binding posts and XLRs
   - improved output filter

Even our shipping containers were improved.  We are very proud of all this progress despite a tough 2009.  Our customers are smart people willing to give a relatively unknown and small company a chance, and we owe it all to them.



Title: Cherry PLUS Demo!
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 30 Nov 2009, 05:50 pm
We will have a Cherry PLUS demo unit available soon.  Any takers?  Low mileage (<10 hours)...
Title: Re: improvements
Post by: jman66 on 30 Nov 2009, 06:38 pm
Thanks to all who posted such nice comments recently!   :D

Like Robin guessed, there have been several improvements over just the last year, such as:
   - new motherboard (lots better about it like larger heat sinks, beefier traces, etc.)
   - improved input stage
   - bigger power supply caps
   - even more powerful transformers
   - new "rock solid" chassis with available premium binding posts and XLRs
   - improved output filter

Even our shipping containers were improved.  We are very proud of all this progress despite a tough 2009.  Our customers are smart people willing to give a relatively unknown and small company a chance, and we owe it all to them.

For those who have an older 4800A, do get in touch with Tommy about what upgrades can be done. He recently installed new modulator boards (I believe) in my 4800A. Out of the box, what struck me was a new-found fullness in the sound. That unjustly implies that the former 4800A was lacking, which it was not. The amp really presents a clear sonic picture, it hits hard when called upon and treads lightly with finesse too as the music content presents. I think much of the fine sonics relate back to a simple cliche, if the 1st watt sucks, what's the point of the rest. There's so much riding on that 1st watt, especially when high efficiency speakers are thrown in the mix...
The new product packing is certainly improved from what the amp was originally shipped in.
Just wanted to offer a little of my experience with the DAC4800A.

-jim
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: watercourse on 1 Dec 2009, 11:00 pm
Just wanted to echo others' positive feedback on Tommy's amps and briefly share my experiences. I have been thoroughly enjoying the power and finesse of the Cherry Jr., and am constantly amazed at just how good this amp is as I pull out music I haven't heard in a while.
I had auditioned the Devores with an all-tube setup before buying them, and was very impressed with the musicality and immersive experience of the mega-buck demo system - in a much larger room than I would have thought these smallish drivers and speakers could fill. The system got me (and the owners) up and dancing at one point (to the Average White Band, no less)! Not being able to afford the demo system though (>$15K), it did provide a lofty reference, and my search began to achieve those heights once I got the Nines home.
Previously, I had a Bel Canto S300/Pre3 combo, then went off the grid with the Dodd battery pre and then the Red Wine Signature 30.2, before purchasing the very first Cherry Jr. from Tommy in August. I got to hear the 4800A (thanks to Lapsan) before the Jr., and got a sense of the potential of Tommy's designs with the rest of my system before committing. Tommy does have a 30-day return policy, though I didn't use it. He also offers a 3-year warranty on his amps (or more, says Tommy, but this doesn't appear on his prototype web page at this point). I can tell you my experience with Tommy has been first-rate.
Having gone through a series of amps in my system, the Cherry Jr. is the first one that I feel truly complements and shows off the Devore's many inherent qualities.
With other amps, the Nines tended to sound light in character, and at higher volumes sometimes shouty (S300) or underpowered (RWA). The S300 had an appealing "big screen" soundstage, but it was rather flat and uninvolving. The RWA had nice, palpable imaging, but everything was a bit dark-hued when tubes were in front of it. Before the Cherry Jr., I thought that the Devores just didn't soundstage all that well. Now, the Devores disappear, and the soundstage extends above, behind, and outside of the speakers' footprint (depending on the recording, of course).
My experiene with the other Class D amps was that bass in particular was never well-controlled, had a dip or recess in some frequencies, or a darkness or tubbiness that lacked detail in other frequencies (even with solid state preamps or direct from DAC - not due to tubes). I attributed a lack of weighty bass to the Devores, but the Cherry Jr. set me straight. Now, with some types of music, I may forget to turn on the sub and not notice or care because the bass is evenly balanced through the range of the speakers, and is tight and textured - which is perfect for late night listening. This also made it very easy to dial-in the sub's x-over frequency and volume because the bass was so consistent and tonally accurate with the Cherry Jr. driving.
In my system, and with the Dodd running Amperex 7308s, the S300 was still overly cool, while the RWA was too warm (!). At the upper end of the spectrum, the high frequencies usually didn't sound like they are supposed to - sibilants were too hot or disjointed from the rest of the voice, cymbals sounded metallic, but tizzy - lacking the varied bronze overtones, textures, and full range of colors they are supposed to have, and that the Cherry Jr. reproduces accurately with these same recordings. Now the cymbals only sound tizzy when the recording is that way to begin with.
I only realized after putting the Cherry Jr. into the mix that the other Class D amps left their imprints on the sound that were a hindrance to the rest of the system. My experience with this amp is that it really excels at musicality, macro- and micro-dynamics, tonal accuracy, and detail - all of which simply increase in scale as you add more juice, without any sense of breaking up or topping out like with previous Class D amps I've tried. This amp really does go to 11. Give one of Tommy's amps a try if you're in the market. I'm very happy with mine, and I think it has given me a solid reference to keep fine-tuning the rest of my system.

-Wilson
Title: DAC4800A demo
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 14 Dec 2009, 12:30 am
We now have a DAC4800A demo for sale.  Price is $999.  Thanks.

Send a Private Message if interested.

Thanks.
Title: Happy Holidays ! ! !
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 24 Dec 2009, 05:03 pm
We wish all of you a happy and safe holiday season!
Title: DAC4800A demo SOLD --- more demos available
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 13 Jan 2010, 09:24 pm
We now have a DAC4800A demo for sale.  Price is $999.  Thanks.

Send a Private Message if interested.

Thanks.
This unit was sold, but we have a few other demos in stock now --- a Cherry PLUS (new version), and regular Cherry (first version with some slight faceplate silkscreen damage)...
Title: new web site
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 16 Jan 2010, 06:38 pm
We have a new web site now:
http://www.digitalamp.com/

Any comments on this new format?  We will add content over time.

Thanks for taking a look!
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: Barry_NJ on 21 Jan 2010, 10:58 pm
The new web site looks good!
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mfsoa on 21 Jan 2010, 11:28 pm
Yup, looks good.

I do miss the "Inside the box" pics - maybe you could add them in the future- that 1500(?) watt transformer is sure purdy.

-Mike
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: srb on 21 Jan 2010, 11:39 pm
I do miss the "Inside the box" pics - maybe you could add them in the future- that 1500(?) watt transformer is sure purdy.

I must have missed the transformer photo.  All I see are small angled views of the front panels.
 
I would suggest at the very least, large higher resolution photos of both the front and back panels, accessed from smaller linked photographs on each product page.
 
The current front view photos leave me uncertain if it is a painted front panel or a nicely finished anodized one.  And I think most people would like to see the back panel photos showing the layout and differences between standard and premium jacks and posts.
 
Steve
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: watercourse on 22 Jan 2010, 05:40 am
Congrats on the new webpage, very nice job!
I second the comment on the "in-the-box" photos.
Title: Inside the box photos...
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 26 Jan 2010, 12:37 am

I must have missed the transformer photo.  All I see are small angled views of the front panels.
 
I would suggest at the very least, large higher resolution photos of both the front and back panels, accessed from smaller linked photographs on each product page.
 
The current front view photos leave me uncertain if it is a painted front panel or a nicely finished anodized one.  And I think most people would like to see the back panel photos showing the layout and differences between standard and premium jacks and posts.
 
Steve

Steve,
Thanks for your post.  All good points and a great help.
Yes, the front panel of the Cherry is brushed and anodized aluminum.  There are good resolution pictures here (earlier in this thread):
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=58526.msg682534#msg682534
We will work to make the improvements you suggested.  In the meantime, here are some photos:

New DAC4800A Inside:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=25895)

New Cherry jr Inside:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=25894)

New Cherry PLUS Inside:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=25893)
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mcullinan on 26 Jan 2010, 12:46 am
Wow nice site!!! Someone really talented must have designed it for you! ;)
Mike
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: satfrat on 26 Jan 2010, 12:50 am
Wow nice site!!! Someone really talented must have designed it for you! ;)
Mike

Is that your work Mikey? Damn nice job and very informative also.  :thumb:
 
I'm looking at them pictures Tommy and I'm thinking to myself, it's just as I remembered seeing them at a NY RAVE.  :thumb:
 
Cheers,
Robin
Title: Cherry jr DEMO
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 27 Jan 2010, 06:26 am
We're getting a Cherry jr demo in very soon (early next week?), and we'd like to sell it at a deep discount to an AC member!  If you are interested, send a PM...
Title: POLL --- Please participate!
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 1 Feb 2010, 03:40 pm
We have a poll going...
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=77070.0
Title: Made in USA
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 2 Feb 2010, 07:16 pm
For what it's worth, we are responding to comments on another thread of another amplifier manufacturer...

We build our amps in the USA.  We do all our PCB assembly in the USA with PCBs that are made in the USA.  We buy all the parts that we can from USA based companies.  We, as proud Americans, believe this makes our quality BETTER as well as supporting our country.  If we were from another country, we'd probably do everything there.

This isn't an easy path to take, and prices are a little higher here, but not as bad as you might be led to believe by some other company who makes their stuff in China.  We save money in other places, as explained before in this thread.  Here are a few ways we save money so we can sell a device packed with expensive parts at a reasonable cost:
1. No paid ads
2. No trade shows
3. No dealer markups

However, as we grow, we are finding it harder to play outside the normal bounds.  Here's one example...  We preach that we don't pay for advertising, so formal reviewers won't review our products.  Try getting a free "new product" spot in a magazine when there's no chance you'll advertise there.  We're waiting for the first reviewer with enough guts to do a review knowing that there's almost no chance that we will advertize in their magazine (in print or online).  That'll tell you who the REAL reviewer is.  You can't blame the magazine guys for running their business, though.  We have plenty of reviews from discerning audiophiles, by the way.

We are working to find ways to spread the word about our products without diverting significant money from improvements and/or research and development of new products.  We are not a marketing company.

So, to sum up, we build stuff in the USA with pride and depend on word of mouth (or text) to get new customers.  Think of it this way, our customers are lucky to find us, and we are even more lucky to have the opportunity to serve them.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: Barry_NJ on 2 Feb 2010, 10:29 pm
There's nothing "wrong" with your business model, it'll just be hard for you to grow that way...

P.S. the product is excellent!
Title: Re: Made in USA
Post by: RPM123 on 3 Feb 2010, 11:15 pm
However, as we grow, we are finding it harder to play outside the normal bounds.  Here's one example...  We preach that we don't pay for advertising, so formal reviewers won't review our products.  Try getting a free "new product" spot in a magazine when there's no chance you'll advertise there.  We're waiting for the first reviewer with enough guts to do a review knowing that there's almost no chance that we will advertize in their magazine (in print or online).  That'll tell you who the REAL reviewer is.  You can't blame the magazine guys for running their business, though.  We have plenty of reviews from discerning audiophiles, by the way.

We are working to find ways to spread the word about our products without diverting significant money from improvements and/or research and development of new products.  We are not a marketing company.


Have you approached "10 Audio" or "Bound For Sound" for a review? Neither accept any advertising.
Title: Re: Made in USA
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 5 Feb 2010, 04:22 pm
However, as we grow, we are finding it harder to play outside the normal bounds.  Here's one example...  We preach that we don't pay for advertising, so formal reviewers won't review our products.  Try getting a free "new product" spot in a magazine when there's no chance you'll advertise there.  We're waiting for the first reviewer with enough guts to do a review knowing that there's almost no chance that we will advertize in their magazine (in print or online).  That'll tell you who the REAL reviewer is.  You can't blame the magazine guys for running their business, though.  We have plenty of reviews from discerning audiophiles, by the way.

We are working to find ways to spread the word about our products without diverting significant money from improvements and/or research and development of new products.  We are not a marketing company.


Have you approached "10 Audio" or "Bound For Sound" for a review? Neither accept any advertising.
We will look into them.  Thanks!
Title: Looking for D/A recommendations...
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 5 Feb 2010, 04:26 pm
We are looking for a reasonably priced D/A with balanced outputs and a level control --- something readily available.  Price target is <$600 street.  Any recommendations???
Title: Two FINE demo units available...
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 6 Feb 2010, 12:12 am
We now have a Cherry jr and Cherry PLUS DEMOS in stock.  Any interest, send a PM or email Support@DigitalAmp.com...

Also, we are thinking about dropping the "regular" Cherry due to much more interest lately in the Cherry jr and Cherry PLUS.  Any thoughts on this?

Also, we just got a REALLY nice deal on some parts for the premium output filter, so we are upgrading all new units to have the premium filter until further notice.  We can also customize units as far as binding posts, XLR connectors, and even faceplate color for the Cherry models (silver or red).  Thanks again to all for your support, and have a great weekend...
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mfsoa on 6 Feb 2010, 12:13 am
Aren't the used Lavry or Benchmarks going for near $600 now?

Do you need USB?

Good luck.

-Mike
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mfsoa on 6 Feb 2010, 12:22 am
Cherry vs Cherry Plus - I don't know what's going on inside these units, but there doesn't seem to be a heck of a lot of difference between them spec-wise or power-wise.

If the Plus uses a new board or whatever, maybe you should move along and bury the cherry and use jus' the plus.

My $0.01

-Mike

Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: TomS on 6 Feb 2010, 01:04 am
Cherry vs Cherry Plus - I don't know what's going on inside these units, but there doesn't seem to be a heck of a lot of difference between them spec-wise or power-wise.

If the Plus uses a new board or whatever, maybe you should move along and bury the cherry and use jus' the plus.

My $0.01

-Mike
I wondered this too.  Looking at the pictures of the inside of all 4, the motherboard, daughter board, and big caps look pretty much the same, just with bigger transformers and better hardware as you move up the line. 
Title: Re: POLL --- Please participate!
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 6 Feb 2010, 09:04 pm
We have a poll going...
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=77070.0
The poll closes Monday morning, so please vote if you haven't already.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 6 Feb 2010, 09:07 pm
Aren't the used Lavry or Benchmarks going for near $600 now?

Do you need USB?

Good luck.

-Mike
I'll look for them again.  No need for USB.  Thanks.
Title: Re: POLL --- Please participate!
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 7 Feb 2010, 06:15 pm

The poll closes Monday morning, so please vote if you haven't already.  Thanks.

Please vote before your Super Bowl party...
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=77070.0
Title: $1299 for a Cherry Amplifier ??? not the jr version either
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 13 Feb 2010, 07:11 pm
We have an older demo unit with some slight chassis damage and a blank (no printing) faceplate.  It has the previous motherboard version, but it is fully tested and works perfectly!  It has the 1500W transformer, original binding posts, and puts out an astounding 1200W total into a 4 ohm pair of speakers.  The same amazing clarity and low level detail as all of our amps.  Priced to go ASAP at $1299.  Send a private message if interested.
Title: Our own circle!
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 14 Feb 2010, 03:11 pm
This is a test post since the thread has moved.  We have our own circle now!  Pardon our learning curve...
Title: Re: Our own circle!
Post by: pjchappy on 14 Feb 2010, 03:13 pm
This is a test post since the thread has moved.  We have our own circle now!  Pardon our learning curve...

Congratulations!   :thumb:


Paul
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: satfrat on 14 Feb 2010, 07:12 pm
Thata way to git r' done Tommy. Hope you'll have an active & prosperous Circle.  :thumb:
 
Cheers,
Robin
Title: new thread
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 19 Feb 2010, 07:14 am
It was suggested that we start a new thread in our new circle:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=77921.0

To those that follow this thread: please post a message on the new one!  Just a "hello" will do.  Be sure to check the "Notify me of replies." box.

We have a list of topics we want to cover this year, so stay tuned.  Feel free to suggest your own.  For example: tubes versus Class-D.  Thanks as always.
Title: Re: new thread
Post by: satfrat on 19 Feb 2010, 07:22 am
It was suggested that we start a new thread in our new circle:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=77921.0 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=77921.0)

To those that follow this thread: please post a message on the new one!  Just a "hello" will do.  Be sure to check the "Notify me of replies." box.

We have a list of topics we want to cover this year, so stay tuned.  Feel free to suggest your own.  For example: tubes versus Class-D.  Thanks as always.

There's really no need for anyone posting to check the notification box Tommy as that's automatically done when anyone posts in any thread. But the notification box does come in handy for someone who wants to follow a thread w/o having to post first.  :thumb:
 
Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: new thread
Post by: JohnR on 19 Feb 2010, 07:30 am
There's really no need for anyone posting to check the notification box Tommy as that's automatically done when anyone posts in any thread.

It depends on each person's own notification settings - in your Profile, go to Notifications and there is a checkbox "Turn notification on when you post or reply to a topic". It may be turned on or off for any particular individual.

:)
Title: Re: new thread
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 24 Feb 2010, 04:21 am
It depends on each person's own notification settings - in your Profile, go to Notifications and there is a checkbox "Turn notification on when you post or reply to a topic". It may be turned on or off for any particular individual.

:)

My current settings don't check "notify" by default...
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: kedoades on 26 Feb 2010, 01:56 am
   I recently found a dac 4800A on audiogon for a great price.  I had never heard one before but read all the reviews so I decided to try one.  I  sure am glad I did.  This amp is very clear, it really lets you hear all the inner details that you may have been missing.  It is also very powerful with great bass midrange and trebel.  I would recommend pairing it with a tube preamp for best results. It beat the pants off my musical fidelity amp which was more expensive, it wasn't even a contest. I have had this amp for about 6 months now and plan on having it for a long time, really a great amp. 
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: satfrat on 26 Feb 2010, 02:10 am
   I recently found a dac 4800A on audiogon for a great price.  I had never heard one before but read all the reviews so I decided to try one.  I  sure am glad I did.  This amp is very clear, it really lets you hear all the inner details that you may have been missing.  It is also very powerful with great bass midrange and trebel.  I would recommend pairing it with a tube preamp for best results. It beat the pants off my musical fidelity amp which was more expensive, it wasn't even a contest. I have had this amp for about 6 months now and plan on having it for a long time, really a great amp.

So what tube preamp did you end up pairing your 4800 with? Thanks.  :D
 
Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: kedoades on 26 Feb 2010, 01:47 pm
   Hi Robin,  I ended up going with a bat vk 31 and it is an excellent combo with the dac 4800. 
Title: DAC4800A demo on the way
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 3 Mar 2010, 04:13 am
We have a DAC4800A demo unit coming in next week.  Send a PM if interested.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: JAMn Joe on 3 Mar 2010, 04:42 am
If your in the market for a Class D amp, I highly recommend you put the DAC4800A on your shortlist of amps to audition. With the Purity preamp fronting the DAC4800A, one of our listeners during testing thought he was listening to a SET amp. He had no clue the DAC4800A was the amplifier driving the speakers.

Tommy doesn't sell through dealers but if he did this would be a Class D amp that I would want to carry!

Title: DAC4800A demo is IN
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 10 Mar 2010, 12:35 am
If your in the market for a Class D amp, I highly recommend you put the DAC4800A on your shortlist of amps to audition. With the Purity preamp fronting the DAC4800A, one of our listeners during testing thought he was listening to a SET amp. He had no clue the DAC4800A was the amplifier driving the speakers.

Tommy doesn't sell through dealers but if he did this would be a Class D amp that I would want to carry!
Thanks, Joe.
We are looking into dealers once again, by the way.
We have a DAC4800A demo in stock now, so send a PM if interested.  We also have a few Cherry demos in stock, including an old version unit in excellent condition.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: Glenee on 12 Mar 2010, 03:00 am
Just too Much Money. I think I would Spend $1200.00 on a Wyred 4 Sound SX-1000 II First.
Just My Opinion, and maybe a little of a Hint. :eyebrows: :D :D :D
Title: Re: DAC4800A demo is IN
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 12 Mar 2010, 04:24 am
Thanks, Joe.
We are looking into dealers once again, by the way.
We have a DAC4800A demo in stock now, so send a PM if interested.  We also have a few Cherry demos in stock, including an old version unit in excellent condition.

The DAC4800A demo has been SOLD.  Thanks, all.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: Big Red Machine on 12 Mar 2010, 06:45 am
Just too Much Money. I think I would Spend $1200.00 on a Wyred 4 Sound SX-1000 II First.
Just My Opinion, and maybe a little of a Hint. :eyebrows: :D :D :D

Been there, done that.  The Cherry is better in all areas.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: Glenee on 13 Mar 2010, 12:09 am
Well then Big Red I may have to eat crow. It won't be the first time.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: satfrat on 13 Mar 2010, 12:11 am
Well then Big Red I may have to eat crow. It won't be the first time.

It's an aquired taste, I know.  :drool:   :lol:   :thumb:
 
Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: kngale1 on 1 Apr 2010, 05:45 pm

Has anyone compare the DAC4800A to the Cherry?   Does both offer the SAME sound signature except more power with the Cherry?

Since price in bridging 2 DAC4800A is ~1 Cherry ... has anyone decided to bridge 2 DAC4800A instead of 1 Cherry?
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 1 Apr 2010, 08:35 pm
Has anyone compare the DAC4800A to the Cherry?   Does both offer the SAME sound signature except more power with the Cherry?

Since price in bridging 2 DAC4800A is ~1 Cherry ... has anyone decided to bridge 2 DAC4800A instead of 1 Cherry?
This is from today (coincidence):
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=79614.msg758786#msg758786
Title: Silver Faceplate on Cherry Amp
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 5 Apr 2010, 12:39 pm
This is a picture of the silver faceplate:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=20530)
Title: new Cherry PLUS review
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 9 Apr 2010, 05:09 pm
A new Cherry PLUS review is located here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=79898.msg762612#msg762612

There are reviews sprinkled about on AC.  Maybe on a separate review thread would be good...

Anyway, have a nice weekend everybody!
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: satfrat on 26 Apr 2010, 05:25 pm
Hey Tommy, got to hear the Cherry Plus over the weekend at the NY RAVE, very nice amp  :thumb: , crystal clear as always on Emil's Magnaplaner Magnepan's. With over 400 watts per channel @ 8 ohms, I wish Barry had pulled it out for Neil's Acoustic Zen Crecendo's. I think it might have been a nice comparison opportunity with the WiredforSound Integrated.
 
Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 26 Apr 2010, 10:20 pm
Hey Tommy, got to hear the Cherry Plus over the weekend at the NY RAVE, very nice amp  :thumb: , crystal clear as always on Emil's Magnaplaner Magnepan's. With over 400 watts per channel @ 8 ohms, I wish Barry had pulled it out for Neil's Acoustic Zen Crecendo's. I think it might have been a nice comparison opportunity with the WiredforSound Integrated.
 
Cheers,
Robin
Thanks for the post, Robin!
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mcullinan on 26 Apr 2010, 11:27 pm
I finally got to hear the Cherry plus in a bigger system and it did sound great. Someday I will get to borrow one!
M
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: Barry_NJ on 27 Apr 2010, 01:15 am
Hey Robin, I would have put the Cherry+ into Niel's system, but when asked about it, he didn't seem enthusiastic and I wasn't going to push the subject.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: satfrat on 27 Apr 2010, 01:17 am
Hey Robin, I would have put the Cherry+ into Niel's system, but when asked about it, he didn't seem enthusiastic and I wasn't going to push the subject.

Gotsha.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 28 Apr 2010, 03:19 am
I finally got to hear the Cherry plus in a bigger system and it did sound great. Someday I will get to borrow one!
M

Nah, best to just BUY one!   :D
Title: Re: Looking for D/A recommendations...
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 9 May 2010, 04:52 am
We are looking for a reasonably priced D/A with balanced outputs and a level control --- something readily available.  Price target is <$600 street.  Any recommendations???
More info on this in a recent post here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=81017.msg777549#msg777549
Title: Comments about our amps on the Von Schweikert Users circle
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 9 May 2010, 05:07 am
Interesting posts:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=80952.msg777119#msg777119
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=80952.msg776887#msg776887
Title: Demo Cherry/DAC4800A Amps and other deals
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 31 May 2010, 12:06 am
Demos for sale are now going to be listed here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=81883.0
Title: Cherry Amps powering Gallo Reference 3.5 and more
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 16 Jun 2010, 04:07 pm
Cherry PLUS and our new Cherry monoblock prototypes powering Gallo Reference 3.5 speakers:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=80470.msg793012#msg793012
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 16 Jun 2010, 10:30 pm
Please let us know if you own one of these amps:

Channel Islands D500
Edge NL 10.1 Stereo Amp
Lamm Reference 1.2 Hybrid Monoblock Amps
Vincent Audio SP-331 Mk Stereo Amp
Vincent Audio SP-T 800 Monoblock Amps
Karan Acoustics KSA-270 Stereo Amp
Pass Labs XA100.5 Monoblock Amps
Cary Audio CAD 120-S MkII
Title: Picture of new Cherry faceplate
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 16 Jun 2010, 11:31 pm
Great picture of our new faceplate (thanks, Levi):
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=80470.msg793180#msg793180
Title: Re: Picture of new Cherry faceplate
Post by: satfrat on 16 Jun 2010, 11:53 pm
Great picture of our new faceplate (thanks, Levi):
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=80470.msg793180#msg793180 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=80470.msg793180#msg793180)

(http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s43/ofier/Stereophile/NY%20Audio%20Rave%202010/06-June%20at%20Audio%20Video%20Synergy/_DSC2584.jpg)
 
Nice stylin' Tommy.  :thumb:
Title: re: Picture of new Cherry faceplate
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 17 Jun 2010, 01:07 am
Robin,

Barry did the new silk design and Levi took the photo.  FYI, the "real deal" will have a darker red background than in the picture above.  Thanks for the compliment!

Best Regards,
Tommy
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 23 Jul 2010, 05:48 pm
Check out my reply on this thread:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=83834.msg811405#msg811405

It's about load dependence.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mojave on 27 Jul 2010, 08:38 pm
Have you considered making a multi-channel amp to compliment your current amps? I would be interested in a 5 channel amplifier to go with my Cherry Jr.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 28 Jul 2010, 12:41 am
Have you considered making a multi-channel amp to compliment your current amps? I would be interested in a 5 channel amplifier to go with my Cherry Jr.
We have considered this, and we have designed several multi-channel amplifier systems over the last decade for other companies, with digital and analog modulation, from 3 to 16 channels.  However our next product will be a one channel amp.  We already have a few customers waiting for these.  One use is for ultimate home theater --- the single channel amp drives the center channel and two stereo amps drive the front/rear.  One great combination is a Cherry PLUS for the front, Cherry jr for the rear channels, and Cherry MONO for the center.  The gains are all matched.  We plan special deals for buyers of multiple amps too (like two MONOs).  Thanks for your kind post.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: satfrat on 28 Jul 2010, 02:29 am
We have considered this, and we have designed several multi-channel amplifier systems over the last decade for other companies, with digital and analog modulation, from 3 to 16 channels.  However our next product will be a one channel amp.  We already have a few customers waiting for these.  One use is for ultimate home theater --- the single channel amp drives the center channel and two stereo amps drive the front/rear.  One great combination is a Cherry PLUS for the front, Cherry jr for the rear channels, and Cherry MONO for the center.  The gains are all matched.  We plan special deals for buyers of multiple amps too (like two MONOs).  Thanks for your kind post.

Now that's a system I'd like to check out Tommy at a future RAVE. Better bring a van tho.  :D
 
Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 28 Jul 2010, 05:10 am

Now that's a system I'd like to check out Tommy at a future RAVE. Better bring a van tho.  :D
 
Cheers,
Robin
I got the family truckster, baby.  Chevy Traverse LTZ.  A sweet ride with room for 7, amps or people that is...
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mojave on 28 Jul 2010, 02:16 pm
I was hoping to not have as many amps.  :wink: With a 7.1 system with two subwoofers I already have two 1000 watt subwoofer amps. I would need 4 Cherry camps for the other channels to replace my Outlaw Audio 7100. I also have a Buttkicker mounted in the floor joists which has another separate amp.

A 3-channel amp would be nice in the lineup. One could buy a 3-channel first for their mains and center. They could then upgrade the mains and move two channels of the 3-channel amp to the surrounds. If they went 7.1, then they could buy another 2-channel amp. Also, there are more people going with active crossovers. A 3-channel Cherry amp would be nice for a 3-way speaker, but it might be a little overkill.  :eyebrows:
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 29 Jul 2010, 04:18 am
I was hoping to not have as many amps.  :wink: With a 7.1 system with two subwoofers I already have two 1000 watt subwoofer amps. I would need 4 Cherry camps for the other channels to replace my Outlaw Audio 7100. I also have a Buttkicker mounted in the floor joists which has another separate amp.

A 3-channel amp would be nice in the lineup. One could buy a 3-channel first for their mains and center. They could then upgrade the mains and move two channels of the 3-channel amp to the surrounds. If they went 7.1, then they could buy another 2-channel amp. Also, there are more people going with active crossovers. A 3-channel Cherry amp would be nice for a 3-way speaker, but it might be a little overkill.  :eyebrows:
Sweet!  I like that idea!
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mojave on 11 Aug 2010, 05:43 pm
Yes...

Cherry Specs:
http://www.digitalamp.com/cherry%20measurements%20v6.pdf

DAC4800A Specs:
http://www.digitalamp.com/DAC4800A%20standard%20measurements%20v3.pdf

Product page for Cherry (list form specifications):
http://www.digitalamp.com/Cherry_amp2.htm

Product page for DAC4800A (list form specifications):
http://www.digitalamp.com/4800a_amp1.htm

Thanks for your post.

I can't find these measurement pdf's anymore on your website. Are they still available? Do you also have measurements of the Cherry Jr.? Thanks.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: Barry_NJ on 12 Aug 2010, 01:52 am
I can't find these measurement pdf's anymore on your website. Are they still available? Do you also have measurements of the Cherry Jr.? Thanks.

Try here...

http://www.digitalamp.com/dac4800a.htm

http://www.digitalamp.com/cherryjr.htm

http://www.digitalamp.com/cherry.htm

http://www.digitalamp.com/cherryplus.htm

The amp's specs are at the bottom of the pages
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mojave on 12 Aug 2010, 02:15 pm
The PDF I requested was not specs, but measurements. The post right above Tommy's that I quoted asked, "Do you have any graphs of your amp's performance? THD vs freq, THD vs output power, etc?" Tommy replied, "Yes . . ." and proceed to post some PDF's that had the word "measurements" in them. This is what I am requesting.

I own the Cherry Jr. and am familiar with the website and the specs. I'm not sure what I would learn from looking at the graphs, but it sounded like fun.  :D
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: Barry_NJ on 12 Aug 2010, 06:06 pm
My bad, maybe Tommy will get back to you with the "measurements".
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 12 Aug 2010, 06:51 pm
These links should work now...

Cherry Specs:
http://www.digitalamp.com/cherry%20measurements%20v6.pdf

DAC4800A Specs:
http://www.digitalamp.com/DAC4800A%20standard%20measurements%20v3.pdf

Please keep in mind that our recently produced amps (within the last 2 years) have slightly better performance.

Also, keep in mind that the Cherry jr has essentially the same hardware internally as the DAC4800A, so the measurements are about the same.

Sorry for the delay in getting the files re-posted.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 3 Sep 2010, 11:16 pm
Current Audiogon deals on demo amps:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=81883.msg831622#msg831622

One auction has only 2 hours left.

The DAC4800A on there has 7 days left, and it's only $900 to start.  For those of you interested in Cherry amps, this is essentially the same internally as a Cherry jr.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 8 Sep 2010, 05:30 am
Cherry jr review in Affordable Audio:
http://www.affordableaudio.org/aa2010-09.pdf
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 11 Sep 2010, 07:02 am
And now for something completely different:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=85631.msg834002#msg834002
Title: DAC4800A and Cherry Amps mentioned in AC "best amps" thread...
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 23 Sep 2010, 09:43 pm
read this:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=80881.msg775825#msg775825
 
and this:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=80881.msg776189#msg776189

Please let us know if you find similar posts on AC (or other places)...
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 27 Sep 2010, 02:08 am
Some good feedback from recent customers:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=86164.0
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 21 Nov 2010, 07:20 am
Does anyone care to comment on this post?
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=80938.msg865813#msg865813
Title: We're waiting!
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 6 Aug 2011, 10:12 pm
While we'd love to be building, testing, shipping....  We are waiting for parts from our suppliers.  Seems some items, such as high density Panasonic capacitors, have super long lead times.

In the meantime, we are working on a new version of the Cherry MONO that has an 1800W transformer (per channel!) and double (!) the rail capacitance.  Other projects have received added attention while we wait, such as a super high fidelity mono amp that is tiny and puts out up to 200W.....

We'd like to thank our customers, especially those with backordered amps, for their patience during this time.   
Title: Original Cherry jr Amp used in Affordable Audio Review
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 4 Oct 2011, 11:18 am
This amp is for sale:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=99168.0
Title: Black Cherry????
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 4 Oct 2011, 02:54 pm
The first black faced Cherry PLUS amp will be available this week....   Hmmmmm  maybe a pair of 1500W double capacitance Cherry MONO PLUS BLK amps!!!!  Pictures will follow.  Comment on this thread for notification and be sure to check the "Notify me of replies." box.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mfsoa on 4 Oct 2011, 02:59 pm
Tommy,

Are the black (or silver) faceplates specific to certain models?

Like can you get a black that says Cherry JR  or Cherry Plus etc. or are they already screened with Mono... etc.?
Thnx
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 9 Oct 2011, 06:04 am
Tommy,

Are the black (or silver) faceplates specific to certain models?

Like can you get a black that says Cherry JR  or Cherry Plus etc. or are they already screened with Mono... etc.?
Thnx
You can choose red or silver on any type of Cherry.  However, the black plates will only be available for PLUS or ULTRA versions.  Thinking about which plates you want on a pair of MONO ULTRAs????  Thanks.

-Tommy

P.s. Here's a thread about the new, not yet released Cherry MONO ULTRA BLK:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=99358.0
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: munosmario on 9 Oct 2011, 11:24 pm
Tommy, what are exactly the differences between the Plus and Ultra versions? I have seen references to 1500W and 1800W but seemingly with regard to transformer rating rather than the actual mono amplifier power (8, 4, or 2 ohms).

Thanks and all the best,

Munosmario
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 10 Oct 2011, 09:44 pm
Tommy, what are exactly the differences between the Plus and Ultra versions? I have seen references to 1500W and 1800W but seemingly with regard to transformer rating rather than the actual mono amplifier power (8, 4, or 2 ohms). 

Thanks and all the best,

Munosmario

Yes, this is about the transformer.....  Cherry PLUS has a 1500W transformer, Cherry ULTRA goes that extra step to an 1800W transformer.  Same for MONO as stereo.  The Cherry MONO (plain) has a 750W transformer and standard rail capacitance, but the Cherry MONO PLUS and ULTRA have double the capacitance!   PLUS and ULTRA models also have WBT Gold binding posts.  Thanks for your post.

-Tommy O
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 2 Dec 2011, 03:43 pm
The DAC4800A is back, but going away:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=100716.msg1021204#msg1021204
Title: Describing the DAC4800A sound
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 2 Dec 2011, 06:36 pm
The DAC4800A is back, but going away:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=100716.msg1021204#msg1021204

Someone asked me today to describe the sound of the DAC4800A.  Thought I might share my reply:

The sound is powerful and solid with great control.  It is very clean (due to ultra-low distortion) and controls woofers with a vice-like grip.  The noise floor is black (>115dB SNR).  Midrange is detailed and imaging is phenomenal.  The level if transparency is so high, that customers often tell me they hear new things in tracks they've listened to many times before. 

-Tommy O
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 23 Dec 2011, 03:38 pm
We're building a few more, $100 more off if you buy TODAY!!!!

Here's more:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=100716.msg1029829#msg1029829

-Tommy
Title: What PREAMP?
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 4 Feb 2012, 06:44 pm
Since this was the first thread for Digital Amp Co. and it's almost to 60,000 page views, we decided to post our latest question to all Cherry/DAC4800A owners here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=103123.0
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 13 Feb 2012, 03:33 am
A good post on "what makes you different":
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=103389.msg1051252#msg1051252
Title: $150 cash back today only --- Happy Valentine's Day
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 14 Feb 2012, 01:56 pm
See here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=103554.new#new


 :o
Title: Faceless Cherry MONO pair
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 10 Apr 2012, 11:41 pm
Less than 4 hours left!
http://app.audiogon.com/listings/digital-amp-co-faceless-cherry-mono-amplifier-pair

This is a pair of Cherry MONO "faceless" power amplifiers. The first
pair of its kind to be built. Offering about 1500W total output with
amazing signal integrity (nearly 120dB SNR and 0.003% THD+N). These amps
are being sold as a DEMO pair to a lucky recipient willing to write an
informal review. :)

-Tommy O
Title: July deal on Cherry MONOs
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 18 Jul 2013, 03:29 pm
July deal on Cherry MONOs:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=117856.0
Title: Maraschino compared to the classic Cherry amp
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 13 May 2014, 05:26 pm
Just wondering if there is significant interest in a listening test comparing Maraschino (our new desktop amp, <10 lbs) to the "big Cherry" (our classic stereo/mono amps, 30-40 lbs).  Let us know......

Other, similar ideas are welcome, too :)
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: Cheeseboy on 13 May 2014, 09:05 pm
I'd like to hear a few opinions on the sound quality of each of these and how they differ.  Try them on some different speaker designs to guage where the sweet spot is for each of the designs.  Perhaps a litte tap dance about the engineering diferences as well. 
Title: Maraschino Reviews Thread Growing
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 8 Dec 2014, 09:11 pm
Here's the link:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=127654.0
Title: CherryAmp.com
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 13 Dec 2014, 04:17 pm
Check out our new web site, CherryAmp.com!

This weekend only, coupon code HOLIDAY gets you $500 off anything on the site, which now includes the "Big Cherry" amps.

Some demos are also available:
Cherry WOOD Cherry MONO ULTRA DEMO PAIR $5000
Black Cherry ULTRA (stereo) DEMO $2700
Red Cherry MONO DEMO PAIR $2200
60V Black Desktop Maraschino DEMO PAIR $2100
60V Red Desktop Maraschino DEMO PAIR $1400
48V Red Desktop Maraschino DEMO PAIR <way low!>

Email Support@DigitalAmp.com for details on demo amps.

PLEASE NOTE the new location of our demo list:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=132013.0


Title: Truth in Audio thread
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 19 Jan 2015, 07:22 pm
Some interesting stuff here, including comments from Roger A. Modjeski, Frank Van Alstine, and Salis Audio:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=131727.0
Title: Re: Truth in Audio thread
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 13 Feb 2015, 08:28 pm
Some interesting stuff here, including comments from Roger A. Modjeski, Frank Van Alstine, and Salis Audio:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=131727.0
This thread is now nearing 15,000 hits and more than 30 pages!  Recently posted was a graph of Maraschino versus Futterman distortion over frequency.  Check it out.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Truth in Audio thread
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 10 Mar 2015, 09:02 am
This thread is now nearing 15,000 hits and more than 30 pages!  Recently posted was a graph of Maraschino versus Futterman distortion over frequency.  Check it out.  Thanks.

Check out the latest few posts. Things just got a bit more interesting.....
Title: MINT Maraschino Kickstarter
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 13 Mar 2015, 05:52 pm
Check it out:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/378044010/mint-maraschino-amp-for-use-with-high-res-players
Title: Re: MINT Maraschino Kickstarter
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 18 Mar 2015, 06:06 pm
Check it out:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/378044010/mint-maraschino-amp-for-use-with-high-res-players
Minimum donation to show your support is $8 USD.  You get a t-shirt for $30.  After that, it's amps, amps, amps....

AND....  By popular demand.....

We've added two new rewards:

$1300 - 48V In-Line Maraschino PAIR (5 available)
$2200 - KING 60V In-Line Maraschino PAIR (5 available)

These are full production units.  Add $100 and get two pair of locking banana speaker wires.  These can be used to hang the In-Line Maraschino from your speakers.  Output is up to 800Wpc (KING version)!

Some have said the Maraschino is the "best sounding amp in the world".  Hopefully, the MINT Maraschino project will get the word out.

As always, THANK YOU, BACKERS!

p.s. We also added a features list in the text.
Title: Special for 48V Maraschino owners!
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 8 Apr 2015, 02:00 am
If you own 48V Maraschinos, check out the DUAL 60V upgrade deal here:
http://kck.st/1EKKHSt

Check out the "rewards" section.

A little more than 3 days left on the project, so get in before it's too late.  Orders from the Kickstarter will be shipped before orders outside the program.

By the way, there's a sweet deal on a pair of demo desktop Maraschinos in there.  Only one pair available!

Thanks to Seth for adding the cable deal (see http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=133137.msg1418883#msg1418883)!

-Tommy O
Title: LOTS OF NEWS
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 9 Sep 2015, 12:37 am
We have announced the development of some new products, and not only amplifiers....

To get the news:
bit.ly/1G8bsxZ

Thanks.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 12 Sep 2015, 09:03 pm
New Product: Speaker Snakes !

Early info:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=137075.0

Intro Offer (FREE / HALF PRICE):
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=137203.0


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=127937)
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 7 Oct 2015, 12:42 pm
News (really good) from RMAF, still being updated:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=137104.0

If you happen to see mention of Cherry Amplifiers in other places, please let me know.

Thanks, and happy listening!

-Tommy O
Title: DAC DAC
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 13 Oct 2015, 03:04 pm
The cat's out of the bag!

We are pre-announcing the DAC DAC,  A high-performance digital to analog converter.

Check our board for more.
Title: DAC DAC Kickstarter
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 23 Dec 2015, 11:47 pm
We may have set the record for fasted funded Sound Project to date (Dec 14th).  Check it out:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/378044010/dac-dac-ultra-high-performance-d-a-converter

We reached our funding goal in less than 9 hours!

Plenty of rewards left.

We plan to add amp and DAC/amp combo rewards soon, based on availability.  If you already pledged and want to add amps, no problem, we can do that!

Welcoming $1 pledges just to say "I support you".  Backers find out first when new rewards are added, regardless of the pledge amount.  Thanks.

-Tommy O

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=132383)
Title: One week left
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 6 Jan 2016, 04:32 pm
One week left to NOT miss out on deal-of-a-lifetime type Cherry Amp rewards!
http://kck.st/1NWutrj

Seriously, some amps below half price.

Inventory is limited.

Thanks.
Title: Re: One week left
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 10 Jan 2016, 04:03 pm
One week left to NOT miss out on deal-of-a-lifetime type Cherry Amp rewards!
http://kck.st/1NWutrj

Seriously, some amps below half price.

Inventory is limited.

Thanks.
Only 3 days left.  New rewards added plus a surprise.  Don't be kicking yourself later because you passed by thousands in discounts when you had the chance....
Title: Less than 2 days left !
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 12 Jan 2016, 01:18 am
Only 3 days left.  New rewards added plus a surprise.  Don't be kicking yourself later because you passed by thousands in discounts when you had the chance....
Less than 48 hrs left.  Link just in case:
http://kck.st/1NWutrj

63 backers as of a few minutes ago....  We're trying to get to 100, so any support helps us, even $1 pledges!

Exciting stuff (:

Thanks to all who have joined us so far!
Title: Re: Less than 2 days left !
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 12 Jan 2016, 12:14 pm
Less than 48 hrs left.  Link just in case:
http://kck.st/1NWutrj

63 backers as of a few minutes ago....  We're trying to get to 100, so any support helps us, even $1 pledges!

Exciting stuff (:

Thanks to all who have joined us so far!
36 HOURS LEFT !!!!
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 13 Jan 2016, 12:27 pm
Less than 12 hours to go!
http://kck.st/1NWutrj
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 13 Jan 2016, 10:55 pm
Countdown....  Less than 90 minutes to go (:
http://kck.st/1NWutrj
Title: HR-PCM vs DSD
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 2 Feb 2016, 04:09 am
Interesting thread if you're into digital audio:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=140579.0
Title: 6moons KING Maraschino review and comments
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 5 Feb 2016, 02:43 pm
Interesting commentary here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=140658.0
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 15 Mar 2016, 02:33 am
Getting ready to make an announcement.  If you'd like to know what's-up, sign-up:
bit.ly/1G8bsxZ

Thanks.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mresseguie on 15 Mar 2016, 03:02 am
If that line was a link, I'm afraid it doesn't work.

BTW I sent you a PM two days ago. I wonder if perhaps your pm quota is full?

Michael
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 15 Mar 2016, 04:10 am
If that line was a link, I'm afraid it doesn't work.

BTW I sent you a PM two days ago. I wonder if perhaps your pm quota is full?

Michael
Michael,

Try this link:
http://visitor.r20.constantcontact.com/manage/optin?v=001BRl1GnvqHBR4JD1YTw0Xu2dZiGd_tRYWQTBmyjKRZK2gvrNq1NmpKGPq6NumFjrboQjRyc9Knez8bD_Htqrlf1bij1F9ox9wyoXyX_Pa4xM%3D

Maybe BiyLy is blocked on here.  It's a link abbreviation site.

I replied to your message earlier today.  Please check your inbox.

Thanks.

-Tommy
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mresseguie on 15 Mar 2016, 04:37 am
Done! Thank you.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: Shear Bliss VMPS on 17 Mar 2016, 03:54 pm
Tommy,

Any idea when the DAC DAC will begin building or shipping ??
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 17 Mar 2016, 11:24 pm
Tommy,

Any idea when the DAC DAC will begin building or shipping ??
The longest lead time item is the chassis. We expect these in a few weeks. Waiting for a more accurate estimate.   Is this Doug?  Thanks for your post.

-Tommy O
Title: Time to take advantage of CherryAmp.com (SPECIAL)
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 12 Jul 2016, 02:18 am
This just in....  Hefty summertime discount on www.CherryAmp.com.  Now's your chance.  We're updating our site and celebrating the new look!  Please send a PM if there are any issues ordering.  Note the new equipment and new demo section.  The new STM is also now available for early adopters!

-Tommy O
Title: So WHY should I connect my amps directly to my D/A ?
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 29 Jul 2016, 02:44 pm
A series of posts about direct amplifier drive (DAC DAC to Maraschino as an example), culminating with a post that discloses something other audio manufacturers would rather keep secret!
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=144082.msg1546007#msg1546007
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 30 Oct 2016, 04:00 pm
Demos from RMAF coming in soon, like-new condition, including:
    - Stereo Maraschino
    - In-Line Maraschino
    - Desktop Maraschino (Golden Cherry too)
    - DAC DAC

We can't sell these as new, so now's the time to get an amazing deal. Email us at Support@DigitalAmp.com if interested.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=152743)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=152744)
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 10 Nov 2016, 08:43 pm
Special on In-Line (hangable) Maraschinos coming up!   Subscribe to our newsletter to get the head's up:
http://bit.ly/1G8bsxZ


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=153240)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=153241)
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 11 Nov 2016, 01:29 pm
Special on In-Line (hangable) Maraschinos coming up!   Subscribe to our newsletter to get the head's up:
http://bit.ly/1G8bsxZ

Newsletter goes out in a few hours, so don't miss out!
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 3 Dec 2016, 12:21 pm
Double cap In-Line Hanging Maraschinos!   We figured out a way to install extra caps in our new "Hanging Maraschino Cherry" amplifiers!  We can also change the LEDs to blue (red is standard).

* We have a Stereo Maraschino demo available. Some wear but no tear.  No silkscreen.  Original board.  HALF PRICE!   Only one.  Contact us if interested, but hurry.  If you always wanted that open and elevated Maraschino sound, but thought you couldn't afford it, here's your chance.  Contact form here:
http://www.cherryamp.com/contact
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: OzarkTom on 3 Dec 2016, 07:51 pm


* We have a Stereo Maraschino demo available. Some wear but no tear.  No silkscreen.  Original board.  HALF PRICE!   Only one.  Contact us if interested, but hurry.  If you always wanted that open and elevated Maraschino sound, but thought you couldn't afford it, here's your chance.  Contact form here:
http://www.cherryamp.com/contact

If I had a second system, that baby would be mine. I still may buy it if my Rethm SET amp sells. My buddy Rex sure loves his. He bought it for his desktop system, but instead sold his LIO and left it in his main system.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: Barry on 4 Dec 2016, 02:49 pm
Double cap In-Line Hanging Maraschinos!   We figured out a way to install extra caps in our new "Hanging Maraschino Cherry" amplifiers!  We can also change the LEDs to blue (red is standard).

* We have a Stereo Maraschino demo available. Some wear but no tear.  No silkscreen.  Original board.  HALF PRICE!   Only one.  Contact us if interested, but hurry.  If you always wanted that open and elevated Maraschino sound, but thought you couldn't afford it, here's your chance.  Contact form here:
http://www.cherryamp.com/contact

I'm looking forward to receive the double cap In-Line Hanging Maraschinos.  Thanks! 
Title: First double cap ILMs !
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 22 Dec 2016, 07:22 pm

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=155276)
Title: Stereo Maraschino -- Stereo Times Most Wanted Component Award !
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 22 Dec 2016, 07:25 pm
Stereo Maraschino won a Stereo Times Most Wanted Component Award !  Review on the way....

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=155274)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=155275)
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 31 Dec 2016, 02:33 am
UP FOR GRABS !   Demo 48V Maraschino Cherry pair with WBT upgrade.  Latest hardware. Chipped corner on the granite block of one channel.  Willing to let them go at a discount.  Email Support@DigitalAmp.com.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=155590)
Title: Hey, how about MQA?
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 18 Jan 2017, 02:57 am
MQA being pushed hard, against much resistance?
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=147977.0
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 28 Jan 2017, 02:21 am
UP FOR GRABS !   Demo 48V Maraschino Cherry pair with WBT upgrade.  Latest hardware. Chipped corner on the granite block of one channel.  Willing to let them go at a discount.  Email Support@DigitalAmp.com.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=155590)

Industry Ad with price (and a photo of the pair):
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=148219.0
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 8 Mar 2017, 02:58 pm
New STM volume knob.  Any thoughts?


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=158876)
Title: Golden Cherry review / An Interview with Tommy O'Brien of Digital Amp Co
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 2 Apr 2017, 08:44 pm
New review (and interview)....
Part 1 of Golden Cherry review in POF: An Interview with Tommy O'Brien of Digital Amplifier Company:
http://positive-feedback.com/interviews/tommy-obrien-digital-amplifier-co/

"....these GOLDEN CHERRY Digital Amp Co. gems may be the single most transparent, uncolored, and precise amplification experience...."

"So what exactly are you doing in your amplifiers (and DACs) that is different from everyone else?"

"I made a cattle-prod circuit from a Radio Shack Electronics Kit"
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: jseipp on 2 Apr 2017, 10:00 pm
Nice interview, personal and with technical descriptions even I can follow!

I'm looking forward to reading the impressions of how your golden boys play with that range of equipment. 
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: Shear Bliss VMPS on 3 Apr 2017, 03:35 pm
A very insightful and in depth interview from Mr. Kipnis into the thoughts and ideals of Mr. O"Brien (Tommy) and the DAC company, very well written and with through responces to questions asked, no yes or no quick one liners either!

After reading part 1 of the interview I get a far better sense of who Digital Amplifier Company is, and the man behind it. A great interview I no doubt will read again and again, looking forward to part 2 now. I can only surmise the Cherry Gold will be a industry benchmark for others to follow!
DW
Title: KICKSTARTER: Maraschino Video Series - NEW CHERRY PRODUCTS!
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 19 Apr 2017, 01:14 pm
ANNOUNCING our Maraschino Video Series Kickstarter!  A great selection of rewards including:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/378044010/maraschino-video-series
Title: What is the MEGAschino Cherry ?
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 24 Apr 2017, 04:22 pm
MEGAschino Cherry ?

Find out:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=149935.0
Title: In a world....
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 27 Apr 2017, 02:28 am
A friend sent me this message....
    (Regarding the MEGAschino motherboard upgrade for Classic Cherry)
"I also wish to let you know how much I respect the fact that you are offering retrofits to the customers of your Classic Cherries.  In a society of disposable everything, it is the rarest of rare to find someone willing to put in the effort to breathe new life into well-used, well-loved products."

Check the rewards to see a very special surprise that we just added:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/378044010/maraschino-video-series
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: Shear Bliss VMPS on 27 Apr 2017, 01:09 pm
I too love the idea of the Megaschino retrofit into the Classic Cherry amps. I just took delivery of the last big Cherry Chassis amp that Tommy built for me, which I call a Super Cherry with a 1800W transformer and Cardas binding posts ... Awesome and still running in.

That I have household obligations at present (new roof) coming May 4th or I would've jumped at the Megaschino mother board retrofit pains me to no end ... hopefully I can get this upgrade done in the near future as I have listened to the 48V Maraschinos on my Acoustat 1100 and they were quite amazing thru them! Basically my system craves big power hence my opting for my Super Cherry.

Tommy are we seeing a rebirth of the big chassis in the new Megaschino amps ??? Keep pushing the envelope Sir!

Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 27 Apr 2017, 01:41 pm
I too love the idea of the Megaschino retrofit into the Classic Cherry amps. I just took delivery of the last big Cherry Chassis amp that Tommy built for me, which I call a Super Cherry with a 1800W transformer and Cardas binding posts ... Awesome and still running in.

That I have household obligations at present (new roof) coming May 4th or I would've jumped at the Megaschino mother board retrofit pains me to no end ... hopefully I can get this upgrade done in the near future as I have listened to the 48V Maraschinos on my Acoustat 1100 and they were quite amazing thru them! Basically my system craves big power hence my opting for my Super Cherry.

Tommy are we seeing a rebirth of the big chassis in the new Megaschino amps ??? Keep pushing the envelope Sir!
Yes, we're bringing the big steel chassis back!  Big transformers, big caps, solid, thick faceplate, heavy, and now with the speed and clarity of Maraschino....  Thanks for your kind post (:

---- added later: By the way, you were driving the Acoustats with the 48V version.  DUAL 60V 1kW power supplies might have given you the "slam" you like, but the raw power of the Classic Cherry is why the MEGAschino was invented.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: Shear Bliss VMPS on 27 Apr 2017, 04:20 pm
Tommy,

I also agree after listening to the 48V versions, the Maraschino 60V would have given my Acoustat 1100 all the power they likely would ever need.

I do prefer the ease of a single chassis and in a Red faceplate is quite a stunner to behold, my biases are a more manly he-man appearance the big chassis renders, I think a great move putting your new Megaschino into the classic chassis.

Hopefully in the future I can turn my Super into the Mega.
DW
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: Shear Bliss VMPS on 30 Apr 2017, 07:12 am
Lost perhaps but not forgotten are my VMPS ST/Rs and monitor type 626R speakers which demand big power to sound their best. These loudspeakers played center stage in my audio cave with a Cherry Ultra with totally outstanding results ... until I ... (Well a very long story) both my fault on two occasions ouch!! Both bone head times, All Tommy said was to ship it back and he would take care of it! Anyway this is where the Long story or Saga comes in. Now people Tommy could've ran for the hills, or just more abruptly told me I was S.O.L ..... BUT to his credit hung in their with me. I will not go into the details here other to say we both thought it better to swap it out for the Maraschino 48V versions, which sounded great but didn't possess the shear power my loudspeakers craved and demanded. I mentioned to Tommy if a well cared for Cherry happened to pass thru, to notify me as I was thinking of listing the amps. Not long after Tommy said their was one Classic Chassis left that he could build for me ..... and I Leaped and pounced!!! This amp I dubbed Super Cherry because of the back and forth we both had on this build as I requested of Tommy and the build, big power ... 1800W transformer-check ... Red faceplate ... check ... Custom binding posts, Cardas ... check, the rest was done with magic fingers and mind!! I think we both had a blast with the build!! Just before I received my amp I bought a pr. of Acoustat 1100s and was able to hear them on the Maraschinos which were awesome!! I now understand the upper reach the Maraschinos give effortly thru the panels, outstanding! The upcoming Megaschino will be a monster and contender with whatever is out their to contend with it!! You heard it here first. Tommy IS THE MAN.

DW
Title: Press release in "the audio beatnik"....
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 30 Apr 2017, 07:07 pm
Check it out!
http://theaudiobeatnik.com/index.php/2017/04/26/digital-amplifier-nears-the-end-of-their-fourth-successful-kickstart-campaign/
Title: Re: In a world....
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 12 May 2017, 02:21 pm
A friend sent me this message....
    (Regarding the MEGAschino motherboard upgrade for Classic Cherry)
"I also wish to let you know how much I respect the fact that you are offering retrofits to the customers of your Classic Cherries.  In a society of disposable everything, it is the rarest of rare to find someone willing to put in the effort to breathe new life into well-used, well-loved products."

Check the rewards to see a very special surprise that we just added:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/378044010/maraschino-video-series
We'll soon be down to 24 hours left....

As rewards, we have amazing deals on:
    - Linear Power Supplies for Maraschino amps (new product)
    - DAC DAC (TL or HS)
    - KING Stereo Maraschino
    - MEGAschino and Classic-to-MEGAschino upgrades (new product)
    - Golden Cherry (top of the line Maraschino) and Golden Cherry Upgrade (for KING Maraschino owners)
    - Maraschino Module Development Kit (new product for OEMs and DIY)
    - USB to SPDIF Converter (new product)
    - Dual 60V 1kW Maraschino power supply upgrade
    - INSIDER White Paper (only $4)
    - In-Line Maraschino ("hanging" Cherry)
    - KING In-Line Maraschino ("hanging" Cherry)

Here's the link again:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/378044010/maraschino-video-series

DON'T MISS THIS OPPORTUNITY !  Thanks for your support.

-Tommy O
Title: THE SIMPLE FAQs
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 1 Jun 2017, 09:08 am
Some simple answers to recent questions....

Q: Why haven't I heard of Cherry Amplifiers or Digital Amplifier Company before?
A: In a word, ADVERTISING.  We do almost none of it.  Why?  More value for our customers.  Same goes with trade shows.  Here's a little something about the company, and about ME:
http://positive-feedback.com/interviews/tommy-obrien-digital-amplifier-co/

Q: Why are Cherry Amplifiers different?
A: We design for sonics.  Our impressive bench measurements may be a few dB less here and there than the "competition", but very much world class.  Number one is the sound for us.

Q: Are Class-AB or Class-A amps better than Class-D?
A: In some cases, yes, but Class-D can achieve higher levels of sonic performance when done right, aside from some extreme cases in analog amps (the $100k, 300 lb variety?).  However, within reasonable cost constraints, well designed Class-D can outperform conventional amplifiers in every respect that matters for listening.  The problem is that almost all Class-D suffers from a serious design flaw ---- the control scheme, aka feedback topology.  The sad truth is that almost every Class-D designer uses gobs and GOBS of negative feedback and/or complex phase shifting networks to get decent, and sometimes deceivingly amazing bench measurements.  Most audiophiles know the difference between sonic performance and bench measurements, but the misconception of better measurements tending to mean better sound is no coincidence.  Old fashioned amplifiers were much easier to tell apart that way.

Q: Why do you (Cherry Amplifier®) claim better sound than other Class-D amps?
A: Our designs, which are home-grown, are first put together with ideal component values to get noise and distortion well below audible levels, then we tweak the circuits for sonic improvement.  This usually costs us a little bit in the specifications, but is a tremendous advantage sonically.  The other reason is that we DO NOT use gobs of feedback.  We DO NOT use complex phase compensation networks.  Instead, we make our output circuits well controlled and we make our output filters inaudible.  This way, we don't need to put a massive feedback loop around the amplifier, which is the way just about everybody else is doing it, even today after the lessons the 1980s taught us.  Fact is, most Class-D designers weren't designers back in the 1980s.  Not to age myself, but I was, and I remember the strident and screechy sound of the old Adcom Class-AB amps with their obscene amounts of corrective feedback.  Remember that feedback can't correct for errors that already happened, so it changes the future signal such that the average over time adds up to approximately the desired signal.  Did you catch that?  The error happens, then the counter error happens, and all this is going into your speaker, then into your ears!

If you enjoyed this post, feel free to ask for more of the same.  Believe me, I could go on and on and on....

-Tommy O
Title: Before and after tweaking for sonics
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 1 Jun 2017, 10:30 am
I was asked to "put up some numbers"....

OK, using the Maraschino Monoblock board, we measured 125dB SNR and 0.0008% THD+N at 10Wout with component values optimized for bench measurements.

After tweaking for sonics (adjusting modulator, extending frequency response, reducing feedback, etc.), we measured 118dB SNR and 0.002% THD+N at 10W.  Why would any designer do such a thing????

  IT SOUNDS BETTER!
Title: Jack Roberts of The Audio Beatnik reviews DAC DAC, compares TL to HS
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 5 Aug 2017, 06:09 pm
Jack Roberts of The Audio Beatnik reviews DAC DAC ---- TL vs HS:
http://theaudiobeatnik.com/index.php/2017/08/02/comparing-high-spec-version-tube-like-version-digital-amplifier-company-dac-dac/

"Both the HS and the TL made it easy to just sit and listen, and I’d say better than most digital sources I have had in my house. Some of these sources cost in up to $40,000, but I did not have them on hand to make a direct comparisons.  However, I don’t remember them being vastly better, if any better at all."
Title: customer review - Stereo Maraschino
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 14 Aug 2017, 06:01 am
A new customer review of the Stereo Maraschino:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=127654.msg1626441#msg1626441
Title: Handy Reference Info
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 30 Aug 2017, 12:32 pm
We're gathering reference information to help customers understand the options.  So far, we put up info about Desktop Maraschinos.  Please take a look and let us know what you'd like to see on this new thread:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=152409.0

We'd like to compile reference info about the following products:
- Desktop Maraschino
- In-Line Maraschino
- Stereo Maraschino
- DAC DAC
- USB to SPDIF converter
- MEGAschino

Thanks.
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 4 Sep 2017, 05:07 pm
Something very special here.   First Desktop Maraschino ever built:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=152358.0
Title: New information about Maraschino Modules
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 5 Sep 2017, 08:37 pm
As we get ready to release the NEW Maraschino Amplifier Module, check out our new description blurb:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=150215.msg1630295#msg1630295

Features and Specifications included !
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 30 Sep 2017, 02:47 am
Check out the new CRISPIN amplifier (uses Maraschino Modules):
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=152791.0
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 4 Oct 2017, 02:33 am
New Maraschino USB to SPDIF converter!
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=152971.0
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 4 Dec 2017, 07:43 pm
Interesting Q and A about "direct drive" of Maraschino and MEGAschino amps, but there are few posts about Golden Cherry vs MEGAschino, covered for the first time here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=144082.0
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 8 Dec 2017, 02:26 pm
DAC DAC USB Bundle:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=154113.msg1647634#new
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 16 Dec 2017, 12:30 pm
Discussion about making a digital preamp:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=154346.0

Looking for ideas!
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 1 Jan 2018, 06:24 pm
Official MEGAschino announcement (prices and more) this week! It will be sent to our newsletter subscribers, so sign up (takes about 10 seconds) here if you're not already:
http://bit.ly/1G8bsxZ
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 12 Jan 2018, 05:15 am
If you own Cherry Amps and Zu Omen speakers, please comment here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=154805.0

Thanks (:
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: mfsoa on 13 Jan 2018, 11:19 pm
I hear all this stuff about how Zu speakers JUST ROCK!! with a few triode etc. watts.  I don't know...Every time I've heard a Zu hooked up to a megawatt Cherry the performance jumped significantly.
Title: Digital Product of the Year ---- DAC DAC High-Spec Version
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 16 Jan 2018, 06:12 pm
Digital Product of the Year:
    DAC DAC High-Spec Version !

http://theaudiobeatnik.com/audio-beatniks-best-2017-awards/
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: Wind Chaser on 16 Jan 2018, 06:25 pm
I hear all this stuff about how Zu speakers JUST ROCK!! with a few triode etc. watts.  I don't know...Every time I've heard a Zu hooked up to a megawatt Cherry the performance jumped significantly.

That’s quite understandable, but it’s also applicable to pretty much any loudspeaker out there. A great amp not only communicates more (meaning all) information to the speaker... it also regulates the speakers motion in a very controlled fashion, no matter how challenging the load.

Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 5 Feb 2018, 06:03 am
Big news:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=155488.0
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 8 Feb 2018, 07:54 pm
Kickstarter #5 almost ready for launch:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=155488.0
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: smargo on 8 Feb 2018, 08:26 pm
A great amp not only communicates more (meaning all) information to the speaker... it also regulates the speakers motion in a very controlled fashion, no matter how challenging the load.

totally disagree - with all due respect - and i love my maraschino stereo amp - In my experience - the speakers communicate - the speakers make the amp sound great

its been never the amp - its always the speakers!
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: Early B. on 8 Feb 2018, 10:44 pm
totally disagree - with all due respect - and i love my maraschino stereo amp - In my experience - the speakers communicate - the speakers make the amp sound great

its been never the amp - its always the speakers!

I'm having difficulty following your logic. How do speakers make an amp sound great? Do speakers make preamps sound great, too? What about DACs, transports, interconnects, power cords, and power conditioners?


 
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: smargo on 9 Feb 2018, 02:20 am
I'm having difficulty following your logic. How do speakers make an amp sound great? Do speakers make preamps sound great, too? What about DACs, transports, interconnects, power cords, and power conditioners?


 

in my experience - ive tried many dacs - transports - interconnects - power conditioners -amps - preamps - up to $5000 - and when i change speakers they have made the greatest inpact

sorry - thats my experience
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: Early B. on 9 Feb 2018, 03:49 am
in my experience - ive tried many dacs - transports - interconnects - power conditioners -amps - preamps - up to $5000 - and when i change speakers they have made the greatest inpact

sorry - thats my experience

Gotcha. No argument there. That's like saying, "I've tried many tires, brakes, mufflers, and air filters, but changing the engine in my car had the greatest impact."
Title: DAC DAC 2 !!!!
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 9 Feb 2018, 11:29 pm
Check it out:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=155555.0
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 27 Feb 2018, 10:10 pm
Our MEGAschino Kickstarter has launched!

Now available:

Take a look:
http://kck.st/2CH4sLB

Lots of information in the project text.

Thanks.

-Tommy O
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 3 Mar 2018, 02:39 am
"....I listened to a Vandersteen system that cost well over $100,000, and I honestly liked the way my Maraschinos sounded better...."

Much more:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=127654.msg1666682#msg1666682
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: LarryD56 on 3 Mar 2018, 05:49 am
   I come home from many of our audio club meetings and like my system better than what I'd just listened to. Especially since I've gotten the DAC DAC, Cherry USB, and Megaschino upgrade. Now I need bigger speakers.

Larry D.
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier (R) ---- What We're About
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 11 Mar 2018, 06:48 pm
Check out our NEW summary (all about Cherry Amp), page 1, post 1 of this thread!

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=58526.0
Title: Re: Digital Amplifier Company DAC4800A and Cherry amps
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 13 Mar 2018, 03:44 am
AmpDesigner 333

I like your philosophy and hope you will succeed in your creative venture! And when you do, don't forget that customer service is one of the pillars to a successful audio business! Krell started as a backyard project to beat the Big Boys and succeeded to become one of the most successful audio brands but they forgot about their customers once they tasted the dizzy heights of success! I had an experience with their customer service and speak from the perspective of my experience.

I know how hard it is to convince the consumer that you have a great product in hand, beyond the marketing hyperbole!

Best Regards
Dennis
Dennis,

Please take a look at the first post on this thread!  I updated it after more than a DECADE! It was my first post on Audio Circle....

You were (and are) correct!  Your advice was as natural to follow for us as waking up in the morning. We realize the customer is who puts the food on our tables. The customer is why we exist.  They are everything to us!  You are certainly a smart and genuine man. Thanks for your kind words way back when hardly anyone was aware of Cherry Amplifier (R)!

-Tommy O
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier (R) ---- What We're About
Post by: ohenry on 13 Mar 2018, 05:15 am
Tommy, it's always enriching to see someone thrive.  And looking back as you suggested, really brings it home.  Nice work and be proud.   :D
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier (R) ---- What We're About
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 13 Mar 2018, 01:55 pm
Tommy, it's always enriching to see someone thrive.  And looking back as you suggested, really brings it home.  Nice work and be proud.   :D
Thanks for your kind words.  Intelligent people like you see beyond the marketing and understand true value.  Thanks also for taking the time to check out my modified "first post" (original version included) and posting your thoughts here!

-Tommy O
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier (R) ---- What We're About
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 14 Mar 2018, 08:09 pm
Less than 12 days left:
http://kck.st/2CH4sLB

We now have a Digital Audio Bundle!  Take a look at the rewards to see what I'm talking about....
Title: Calculating SNR at 1W
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 19 Mar 2018, 06:26 am
SNR at 1W can be calculated from SNR at rated power.  This is not just for Cherry Amplifier (R) products, but for any amplifier.

If we know the signal level and the SNR, we can calculate the noise level.  This is typically A-weighted, by the way, but not important to the math....

SNR is the ratio of signal to noise, or signal/noise.  These are voltage levels.  Units must match, and we use volts.  SNR = 20 * log(signal/noise).  Since there is more signal than noise, SNR is positive.  If it were noise/signal, the result would be negative, due to the log function.

We start by reversing the log function to get the actual ratio in straight scalar units (no units, actually).  So, we're "un-doing the dB", going from exponential scale to linear scale.

Let's say SNR is 120dB (MEGAschino, Maraschino).  This means 6 = log (x), x being SNR as a linear scalar.  10^6 is 1,000,000.  So, if the signal is 1V, the noise would be 1/1,000,000 V, or 1uV.

Let's also say the rated power is 400W into 4 ohms (KING Maraschino).  Power is V^2/R in this case, so V = sqrt(1600V^2) = 40V.  So, in this case, noise is 40uV.

Now, what is it at 1W (into 4 ohms)?  Well, we know the noise voltage, and 1W is sqrt(4V^2) = 2V, so SNR = 20 * (2V/40uV) = 94dB.

The reverse also works, so if you know SNR at 1W, you can calculate it for rated power.  Almost every amp manufacturer states SNR at rated power, by the way.  Thanks.

-Tommy O
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier (R) ---- What We're About
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 19 Mar 2018, 06:35 am
What....  ....does Digital Amplifier Company consider reasonable or acceptable in Class-D amplifiers?
The higher the better.  Class-D is just a topology.  What I (representing Digital Amp Co) consider "reasonable or acceptable" is not based on 1W.  It's based on max output of the amp, and it's 110dB or more for anything that's considered a "high performance" amplifier.  Thanks again.
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier (R) ---- What We're About
Post by: maty on 19 Mar 2018, 12:36 pm
From the other thread, better here.

I know the maths but I have found too often that the data advertised by the manufacturers do not coincide with the independent measurements. It was something I already knew with class AB but I was surprised that it also happened with Class D amplifiers.

Same problems with speakers manufacturers: sensitivity and nominal impedance. And then some complain that the speakers do not sound as good as many say. Or sell them accompanied by amplifiers that do not have the necessary power to sound with all their splendor.

https://www.cherryamp.com/the-stm-specs

Gain: 22dB

Frequency Response: 0 Hz to >100 kHz

Power Efficiency: 95% !!!!

(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/c78071_237da81fcb31422689f578a2258787dd.png/v1/fill/w_655,h_541,al_c/c78071_237da81fcb31422689f578a2258787dd.png) (https://static.wixstatic.com/media/c78071_237da81fcb31422689f578a2258787dd.png/v1/fill/w_655,h_541,al_c/c78071_237da81fcb31422689f578a2258787dd.png)

Very good specs.

And thank you very much.
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier (R) ---- What We're About
Post by: maty on 19 Mar 2018, 12:37 pm
Quote
The reverse also works, so if you know SNR at 1W, you can calculate it for rated power.  Almost every amp manufacturer states SNR at rated power, by the way.  Thanks.

I know I know. As Nelson Pass always says, the first watt is very important. To compare is very good.

The most realistic measurements are with 8 watts - 10 watts I think.

With class AB amplifiers, I like > 88 dB at 1 watt "A weighted" with 8 Ohms load. To play very good recordings. Better 90 dB off course, but after so many measurements that I have seen lately I lowered the bar.

In class D one always expects better specifications, hence my surprise with others manufactures.
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier (R) ---- What We're About
Post by: maty on 19 Mar 2018, 12:38 pm
To finish,

The measures are very important but... Years ago, when the DC, noise, interferences... in my house mains had me bitter I decided to buy a second-hand amplifier (only €118 at home) to implement solutions and improvements. Before giving the purchase order I duly informed myself.

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/marantz-sr4500-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures

After the internal improvements I made and my problems solved, I have been able to appreciate the excellent recordings I usually listen to. The measurements I suppose will be the same -with much less noise- but the sound is much better than when it came to my hands.

In short, that measurements are a necessary but not sufficient condition. There are more factors to take into account to get a good sound, not to mention the room conditioning.
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier (R) ---- What We're About
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 22 Mar 2018, 11:36 am
This weekend is the last one for our new Kickstarter.  Time to get involved if you haven't already.  Our backers provide the funds for new product development and get rewarded generously as a result.

Here's the link (please help us spread the word by posting this link on social media):
http://kck.st/2CH4sLB

We also added a special new reward today.  It's an "only one available" pair of amps.  See if you can spot it (:

Thanks as always!
Title: Sunday is the last full day to get special pricing
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 22 Mar 2018, 01:51 pm
This weekend is the last one for our new Kickstarter.  Time to get involved if you haven't already.  Our backers provide the funds for new product development and get rewarded generously as a result.

Here's the link (please help us spread the word by posting this link on social media):
http://kck.st/2CH4sLB

We also added a special new reward today.  It's an "only one available" pair of amps.  See if you can spot it (:

Thanks as always!
Last full day for the program is this Sunday, the 25th.  Thanks again.
Title: New MEGA Review
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 24 Mar 2018, 01:54 pm
“MEGAschino may very well be the most dynamic amplifier ever built – outing the Golden as my favorite in this area”
    - Jeremy R. Kipnis / Kipnis Studios
http://www.jeremykipnis.com/MEGAschino_Review_-_03_18.html
Title: Re: Calculating SNR at 1W
Post by: maty on 25 Mar 2018, 10:53 am
SNR at 1W can be calculated from SNR at rated power.  This is not just for Cherry Amplifier (R) products, but for any amplifier.

If we know the signal level and the SNR, we can calculate the noise level.  This is typically A-weighted, by the way, but not important to the math....

SNR is the ratio of signal to noise, or signal/noise.  These are voltage levels.  Units must match, and we use volts.  SNR = 20 * log(signal/noise).  Since there is more signal than noise, SNR is positive.  If it were noise/signal, the result would be negative, due to the log function.

We start by reversing the log function to get the actual ratio in straight scalar units (no units, actually).  So, we're "un-doing the dB", going from exponential scale to linear scale.

Let's say SNR is 120dB (MEGAschino, Maraschino).  This means 6 = log (x), x being SNR as a linear scalar.  10^6 is 1,000,000.  So, if the signal is 1V, the noise would be 1/1,000,000 V, or 1uV.

Let's also say the rated power is 400W into 4 ohms (KING Maraschino).  Power is V^2/R in this case, so V = sqrt(1600V^2) = 40V.  So, in this case, noise is 40uV.

Now, what is it at 1W (into 4 ohms)?  Well, we know the noise voltage, and 1W is sqrt(4V^2) = 2V, so SNR = 20 * (2V/40uV) = 94dB.

The reverse also works, so if you know SNR at 1W, you can calculate it for rated power.  Almost every amp manufacturer states SNR at rated power, by the way.  Thanks.

-Tommy O


SNR calculation. Easy and fast.

400 watts/4 Ohms -> SNR: 120dB. V=40v


with 1 watts/4 Ohms V=2v

 -> 120dB - 20log(40v/2v) = 120dB - 26dB = 94 dB


to compare

1 watts/8 Ohms -> 91 dB


With class AB, 91 dB is very good. With class D is only good, I think.
Title: Re: Calculating SNR at 1W
Post by: OzarkTom on 25 Mar 2018, 03:07 pm

SNR calculation. Easy and fast.

400 watts/4 Ohms -> SNR: 120dB. V=40v


with 1 watts/4 Ohms V=2v

 -> 120dB - 20log(40v/2v) = 120dB - 26dB = 94 dB


to compare

1 watts/8 Ohms -> 91 dB


With class AB, 91 dB is very good. With class D is only good, I think.

The proof is in the listening Maty. I have had a lot of Class D amps here and the Cherries has beat them all by quite a bit. :thumb:
Title: Re: Calculating SNR at 1W
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 25 Mar 2018, 03:08 pm

SNR calculation. Easy and fast.

400 watts/4 Ohms -> SNR: 120dB. V=40v


with 1 watts/4 Ohms V=2v

 -> 120dB - 20log(40v/2v) = 120dB - 26dB = 94 dB


to compare

1 watts/8 Ohms -> 91 dB


With class AB, 91 dB is very good. With class D is only good, I think.
Although our specifications are admirable, they only tell part of the story.  I'm guessing you've never HEARD a Cherry Amplifier (R)....

You should take a look at the very first post in this thread.  I explain why the Cherry Amp SOUND is better than non-Cherry amps (Class-D or not).

There are only a few hours left of our MEGA Intro Kickstarter (http://kck.st/2CH4sLB).  How about picking up a MEGA to see/hear for yourself?  Then you can hear how good Class-D can SOUND.  If for some odd reason you decide not to keep your Cherry Amp, you can easily sell it, probably for a decent profit considering the Kickstarter price.

Thanks again (:

-Tommy O
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier (R) ---- What We're About
Post by: maty on 25 Mar 2018, 03:12 pm
I have nothing against this amplifier. For example, the efficiency of 95% giving so much power is an engineering prodigy.

The problem is in the other brands that buy modules designed by others and spoil the specifications and not by little.

And then there are revisions in Stereophile and they are silent in the face of the obvious.
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier (R) ---- What We're About
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 25 Mar 2018, 03:15 pm
I have nothing against this amplifier. For example, the efficiency of 95% giving so much power is an engineering prodigy.

The problem is in the other brands that buy modules designed by others and spoil the specifications and not by little.

And then there are revisions in Stereophile and they are silent in the face of the obvious.
We are discussing a review with Stereophile, but since we don't advertise there, it might be a while.  Thank for your kind post.
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier (R) ---- What We're About
Post by: OzarkTom on 25 Mar 2018, 04:43 pm
We are discussing a review with Stereophile, but since we don't advertise there, it might be a while.  Thank for your kind post.

Tom Goetz sent a pair of speakers and bought an ad, never got one review. Too much politics.
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier (R) ---- What We're About
Post by: sumoking on 25 Mar 2018, 05:25 pm
With social media, AC, and other forums, Stereophile has lost its power.  I have been out the game for about 12 years and came back in a couple years ago and got a subscription. It did nothing for me.  At this point, meeting folks on AC, going to audio shows and listening to the products is the only way to make sound purchasing decisions in the current era.

I would never just buy a product cause of a review.  The point is their is so much free information from people who are knowldegable and just want the best sound.  Stereophile reviewers are just way to influenced by the mighty $$$.

I understand the need as a manufacturer to want to get their product reviewed and it will probably help get a few sales, but that's not where the future lies.  I wonder how many subscribers they have? vs. 5 years ago? vs 10 years ago? vs 15?
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier (R) ---- What We're About
Post by: LarryD56 on 25 Mar 2018, 06:17 pm
I bought my first Cherry amplifier while looking online for a high powered amp to run my newly acquired vintage Infinity speakers. Saw one for sale, checked out the specs, then I went to the forums to see what owners had to say about their amps. Reading articles are a good introduction, but to me, I want to know what owners think.

Larry D.
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier (R) ---- What We're About
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 25 Mar 2018, 06:40 pm
If you've ever wanted a Cherry Amp or DAC DAC, you have less than 30 hours to take advantage of the sweet goodies here:
http://kck.st/2CH4sLB

Included is a pair of Demo Golden Cherry Amps in mint condition, the new 130dB+ DAC DAC 2 HS, and our Cherry Digital Preamp pre-order.

....and, of course, Stereo MEGAs, and MEGA MONOs.

In any case, we are starting to see the fortunate success of an innovative, customer-first company.  I couldn't be more proud of our customers!  They are smart, and took a calculated risk on a relatively unknown company.  They deserve all the credit for Cherry Amp's success.

-Tommy O  :D
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier (R) ---- What We're About
Post by: OzarkTom on 25 Mar 2018, 08:43 pm
It is hard to believe those demo cherry mono amps are still there.
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier (R) ---- What We're About
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 27 Mar 2018, 06:54 pm
Thanks to our amazing backers, we have succeeded with our MEGAschino Intro Kickstarter and reached 511% !
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier (R) ---- What We're About
Post by: Kal Rubinson on 1 Aug 2018, 01:52 pm
Tom Goetz sent a pair of speakers and bought an ad, never got one review. Too much politics.
There must be more to this than stated here.
1.  Reviewers must review any products that they accept for review.  (That does not include unsolicited submissions.)
2.  Buying an ad is not relevant.
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier (R) ---- What We're About
Post by: OzarkTom on 1 Aug 2018, 05:43 pm
There must be more to this than stated here.
1.  Reviewers must review any products that they accept for review.  (That does not include unsolicited submissions.)
2.  Buying an ad is not relevant.

1. Gordon Holt made a mock-up review and sent it to Tom Goetz damning his speakers, but Sterophile never published that review. The Goetz was much better than the Vandersteen 2's or the Thiel speakers. I use to sell all three. But that was back in the 80's, it may not be so true today.

2.Goetz did buy an ad, so that part maybe true.
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier (R) ---- What We're About
Post by: Kal Rubinson on 1 Aug 2018, 10:44 pm
1. Gordon Holt made a mock-up review and sent it to Tom Goetz damning his speakers, but Sterophile never published that review. The Goetz was much better than the Vandersteen 2's or the Thiel speakers. I use to sell all three. But that was back in the 80's, it may not be so true today.
Well, that antedates my tenure and JGH ain't around to explain.

Quote
2.Goetz did buy an ad, so that part maybe true.
He may have believed that it was relevant but, afaik, it is not so today.
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier (R) ---- What We're About
Post by: rodge827 on 13 Oct 2018, 12:19 am
Here’s  a good deal on an STM:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=160156.msg1708953#new
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier (R) ---- What We're About
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 22 Oct 2018, 04:56 am
Here’s  a good deal on an STM:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=160156.msg1708953#new
Please post a photo.  How would you characterize the sound?  Thanks.

-Tommy O
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier (R) ---- What We're About
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 2 Nov 2018, 10:28 pm
In case you haven't seen, there is a November special following the Steven Stone review of the Stereo MEGAschino in Home Theater Review:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=160513.msg1712166#msg1712166
Title: Stereo Maraschino Thread
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 5 Nov 2018, 06:22 pm
Since we have a bunch of scattered technical information, photos, reviews, and more regarding the Stereo Maraschino integrated amp, we decided to start a new thread to focus on this increasingly popular product:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=160564.0
Title: NEW PRODUCT: 130dB+ DAC DAC 2 HSV
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 7 Nov 2018, 09:23 pm
The 130dB+ DAC DAC 2 HSV features a natural feeling analog potentiometer to control digital attenuation.  Why?

More details and photos here:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=160514.0
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier (R) ---- What We're About
Post by: doctorcilantro on 21 Nov 2018, 10:29 am
deleted, found the answer
Title: New Product on the Way !!
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 28 Dec 2018, 10:37 pm
We are getting ready to launch a new Kickstarter for our new mini MEGA stereo amplifier:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=161372.0
Title: mini MEGAschino Kickstarter LAUNCHED !!
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 24 Jan 2019, 09:01 pm
We have officially launched our mini Cherry Kickstarter !!

Here's the link:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/378044010/cherry-mini-megaschino-tm-high-performance-stereo

Amazing deals as rewards.

We will be making an announcement through this project soon.  A very special surprise, but something that our customers have been requesting for years.

The mini Cherry is a stereo amplifier capable of 400Wpc into 4Ω.  It features that refined Cherry Sound!

Email us at Support@DigitalAmp.com if you want the full product/price list.  We can customize any combination of items.

Thanks for taking a look, and please let us know what you think!

Best Regards,
Tommy O / Founder
Digital Amp Co
CherryAmp.com
Title: THIS WEEKEND ONLY !! Factory Rebuilt DAC DAC 1 HS/TL
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 8 Feb 2019, 07:46 pm
We have officially launched our mini Cherry Kickstarter !!

Here's the link:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/378044010/cherry-mini-megaschino-tm-high-performance-stereo

Amazing deals as rewards.

We will be making an announcement through this project soon.  A very special surprise, but something that our customers have been requesting for years.

The mini Cherry is a stereo amplifier capable of 400Wpc into 4Ω.  It features that refined Cherry Sound!

Email us at Support@DigitalAmp.com if you want the full product/price list.  We can customize any combination of items.

Thanks for taking a look, and please let us know what you think!

Best Regards,
Tommy O / Founder
Digital Amp Co
CherryAmp.com

This weekend only!  Here's a great reason to support our development efforts:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=162272.0
Title: Re: THIS WEEKEND ONLY !! Factory Rebuilt DAC DAC 1 HS/TL
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 11 Feb 2019, 04:29 pm
This weekend only!  Here's a great reason to support our development efforts:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=162272.0
This is still active until midnight Eastern Time....
Title: New 5-Channel Cherry Amp announced on Audio Circle
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 20 Feb 2019, 10:26 pm
There's an early adopter special (ends soon) and other details here:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=162524.0

Thanks for taking a look!!


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=190936)
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier (R) ---- What We're About
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 22 Feb 2019, 09:24 pm
Last weekend for our 6th Kickstarter!

Some new rewards added today and FULL PRICE LIST here:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=162256.msg1730172#msg1730172
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier (R) ---- What We're About
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 6 Mar 2019, 02:57 am
Last weekend for our 6th Kickstarter!

Some new rewards added today and FULL PRICE LIST here:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=162256.msg1730172#msg1730172
Well, we finished up last week, 668% of our goal !!  Thanks again to our loyal and generous BACKERS (:
Title: Some Audio Philosophy
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 6 Mar 2019, 03:39 am
You might recognize some common themes below, and this is about much more than just our Cherry DAC DACs....

We have measured performance of the Cherry DAC DAC (version 1 HS/TL, 130dB+ version 2 HS/HSV) driven by our 1-ft UHF SPDIF gold cable while varying jitter from none until the DAC can't even lock. The results for THD+N vs amplitude, THD+N vs frequency at 100mFS, THD+N vs frequency at FS, FFT of -60dBFS @ 1kHz, Frequency Response, and SNR DO NOT CHANGE from jitter.  In other words, jitter has NO EFFECT on the DAC DAC's performance as long as it's not bad enough to throw off the interface as a whole, which is WAY more than any reasonably designed source would have!  Why?  The data is internally re-clocked by a tight tolerance "pico clock" oscillator.

You may find the same with other high performance DACs, but they never seem to state this fact.  Maybe they want to sell you a re-clocker later on to improve their "sloppy DAC".  We don't recommend such devices between the audio data source and DAC simply because they don't produce any performance enhancement with our properly designed Cherry DACs.   There's never been an argument to the contrary that holds water.  Also, consider the source of such an argument.  Consider what they're selling.  Be extra weary of any comments pertaining to things that supposedly can't be measured.  My test equipment can reliably tell the difference between 0.001% and 0.002% THD, but no human can.  Same for 120dB SNR vs 122dB.  Same for 10° vs 12° of phase shift.  Same for....  You get the point....

I believe in my test equipment more than any rhetoric, conjecture, or hyperbole.

Another important fact....  The Cherry DAC DAC's INTERNAL power supplies use multiple isolation, regulation, and filtering steps.  This assures immunity to power supply fluctuations at least to +/-1Vpp from the external power supply!  PLUS....  The external power supply is regulated, so there's no need for any power conditioners or an "improved power supply"!

This is how well designed equipment works, folks.  It is able to meet spec out of the box and without the need for any "fixes" like jitter removal or a better power supply.

One semi-exception to the "works to spec" thing....  In order to test our Classic Cherry and MEGA series amplifiers at their highest continuous power levels, a fat power cord is necessary.  This is NOT necessary for music reproduction, however, because average power is much higher when reproducing a continuous sine wave.  The cord we provide (when requested) with our amplifiers is several gauges smaller because performance reproducing just about any music will NOT be affected by using a fancy ultra-low gauge power cord.  We'll discuss the atrocities regarding misinformation about cables some other time....

....and the results are always confirmed by listening tests, of course.

We've proven expectation bias many times by simply not switching something that was supposedly switched during demos.  It's a bit like a magic trick, which is ironically the way snake oil salesmen convince the unsuspecting buyer....

It's important that listeners understand expectation bias and placebo effect.  Many listeners claim to hear something different when there is indeed no difference (nothing was changed, but they thought it was).  Improvements that are so-called "subtle", in many cases, don't actually exist.  I could go on about this for days, but I think it's important to point out that digital data transportation typically works or it does not.  The only reason for the fancy cable is to assure no errors in the data.  Same goes for USB cables.  Super expensive USB cables are certainly snake oil.  It's NOT the same with analog signals, but we're taking about digital here.  It's data.  Regarding subtle effects, one day I was talking to a salesman at a dealer about speaker isolation platforms.  There were other people standing near us when he said the improvement was subtle.  After the others walked away, I said "Subtle as in non-existent?".  He smiled and said "You got it!".

Here's a photo of the Cherry 130dB+ DAC DAC HSV.  It uses a analog pot controlled digital attenuator instead of adding anything to the analog signal path, which is about one inch long in all DAC DACs....

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=185799)

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=186268)
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier (R) ---- What We're About
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 25 Mar 2019, 04:32 pm
Have you heard about our new 5-CHerry amplifier ??

Details here, plus info on a multi-product special that’s now open to the public:
https://myemail.constantcontact.com/-enter-subject-here-.html?soid=1101188089143&aid=GZx5GG7EBVQ
Title: Potentially Record Breaking 🍒 Surround System at AXPONA 2019
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 2 Apr 2019, 07:07 pm
We will be at AXPONA powering a potentially record breaking surround sound system!  Details here:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=163293.0
Title: Re: Potentially Record Breaking 🍒 Surround System at AXPONA 2019
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 9 Apr 2019, 05:56 pm
We will be at AXPONA powering a potentially record breaking surround sound system!  Details here:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=163293.0
Check the thread -- 2-channel demos will be played as well using the Cherry MEGA MK2 MONOs (these have 1800W transformers and quad cap upgrades as well), driving JTR 212RTs.
Title: Pre-Summer Cherry Sale starts NOW !!
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 13 May 2019, 04:27 pm
Check out our massive pre-summer sale!

https://myemail.constantcontact.com/-enter-subject-here-.html?soid=1101188089143&aid=FU-pLlkxB6c

#Sound #Stereo #MEGAschino #DAC #DACDAC #CherryDACDAC #CherryAmp #CherryMaraschino #CherryMEGA #MaraschinoCherry #SurroundSound #Audio #HomeAudio #Amplifiers #DigitalAmpCo #HighEndAudio #miniCherry #Cherry5ch #cherry5 #5CHerry #4CHerry #3CHerry #2CHerry #HomeTheater #ExtremeAudio
Title: Want to turn the commentators OFF?
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 14 May 2019, 01:54 pm
If you've ever wanted to mute just the commentators, while preserving the rest of the audio when watching sports, check this out:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=163888.0
Title: Re: Pre-Summer Cherry Sale starts NOW !!
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 21 May 2019, 07:07 pm
Check out our massive pre-summer sale!

https://myemail.constantcontact.com/-enter-subject-here-.html?soid=1101188089143&aid=FU-pLlkxB6c

#Sound #Stereo #MEGAschino #DAC #DACDAC #CherryDACDAC #CherryAmp #CherryMaraschino #CherryMEGA #MaraschinoCherry #SurroundSound #Audio #HomeAudio #Amplifiers #DigitalAmpCo #HighEndAudio #miniCherry #Cherry5ch #cherry5 #5CHerry #4CHerry #3CHerry #2CHerry #HomeTheater #ExtremeAudio
Sold out of ILMs at the moment.  We do have a few desktop Maraschinos left as well as this deal on DACs:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=138311.160
Title: DAC4800A upgrades to MEGA !!
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 17 Jun 2019, 05:26 pm
Attention DAC4800A owners!

We can now upgrade DAC4800A to Stereo Cherry MEGAschino!  More information about this here:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=164331.0

-Tommy
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier (R) ---- What We're About
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 20 Jun 2019, 05:45 pm
One feature of Cherry Amps is high damping factor.  This is where even the resistance of the speaker cables makes a significant difference to effective damping factor.  The debate will never end regarding damping factor and its effect on the sound, but there is a parallel here with power cords (another great debate).  People seem to forget that the wire behind the wall is part of the circuit, and simple engineering (yes, I know not everyone's an engineer) concepts like power supply rejection ratio.  Here's an article about that, including my comments along with those of a guy selling power cords:
https://audiophilereview.com/audiophile-news/can-power-cords-have-an-effect-on-an-audio-systems-sound.html

I've been involved in many "cable debates" (sooooo many, ugh  :roll:) and similar online conversations where someone is berated for using logic and science instead of hyperbole, conjecture, or rhetoric.  There's often a "your system isn't resolving enough" comment, mixed in with a refusal to produce evidence of what seems like outrageous claims.  Usually, the claims are typically nebulous ones like "opens up the sound stage", etc.  I don't want this thread to turn into a cable debate, or one about placebo effect, or measurements versus subjective listening.  These arguments are like trying to talk someone out of a cult.  What matters in the end is the pleasure one's sound system gives them.
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier (R) ---- What We're About
Post by: RonN5 on 20 Jun 2019, 06:50 pm
We all have our own cable stories....and Tommy is no doubt correct that it is pretty hard to covert true believers...on either side...one way or another. 

Here is my story.  I purchased a Halo amplifier and a buddy suggested I specifically try a Shunyata Venom HC power cord....and if it didn't improve things, send it back.  So, I bought one...but rather than put it on my amplifier, I put it on my disk player, no improvement.  Then I tried it on my preamp, no improvement.  By the time I put it on the Halo, my mind was pretty well made up...but low and behold, it seemed that the bass was better.  Over the next few weeks, back and forth with the stock cord and ultimately I decided to keep it and leave it on.

Then I bought a 2Cherry from Tommy and was using the Shunyata.  I asked Tommy for his thoughts about the sound with the stock cord; he sent me the link above.  By now, I was pretty familiar with the sound of the 2Cherry + Shunyata on a couple of tracks...switched to the stock cord....no difference.  Spent the next week going back and forth and as of now, I'm using the stock cord and will probably sell the Shunyata along with the Halo.

You might wonder, did I go back and retest the Halo with the stock cord...so far no....the 2Cherry sounds so darn good that Idon't want to take it out of my system.

Conclusion:  Not sure I have one....but when it comes to any of the Cherry Amps...I'm pretty sure you are not giving anything up by using the stock cords.
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier (R) ---- What We're About
Post by: Nick77 on 20 Jun 2019, 06:59 pm
Quote
        Shunyata Venom HC power cord     

I dont think you should base your final conclusions on such a budget PC. Give a true audiophile PC a try like Petes Triode Wire Labs then draw conclusions. Just saying...........
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier (R) ---- What We're About
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 20 Jun 2019, 07:41 pm
I dont think you should base your final conclusions on such a budget PC. Give a true audiophile PC a try like Petes Triode Wire Labs then draw conclusions. Just saying...........
Properly designed equipment is much less sensitive to cable selection.  For power cords, it's about PSRR.  We recommend spending no more than $100 for any cable (assuming 10 feet or less) unless you are buying it for the looks.  Nothing wrong with wanting cool looking stuff!  Just a general rule of thumb.
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier (R) ---- What We're About
Post by: RonN5 on 20 Jun 2019, 07:59 pm
Nick 77.....My thought is that the Shunyata is a $300 wire....the Triodes seem to run anywhere from $500-1200...I'm thinking that from an overall "sound of my system" standpoint, I'd be much better off to spend the $$$ on the DACDAC or the new preamp when it comes out
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier (R) ---- What We're About
Post by: Nick77 on 20 Jun 2019, 08:07 pm
Nick 77.....My thought is that the Shunyata is a $300 wire....the Triodes seem to run anywhere from $500-1200...I'm thinking that from an overall "sound of my system" standpoint, I'd be much better off to spend the $$$ on the DACDAC or the new preamp when it comes out

My bad, I thought it was a $150. Anyhow given the opportunity to demo a TWL or Wywire PC do give it a try.  :thumb:
Title: Magnepan or other panel speakers and Cherry Amps?
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 21 Jun 2019, 04:29 am
There's a recently started thread about panel speakers and Cherry Amps.  If you have Magnepan speakers and Cherry Amps, please post what you're using here:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=164248.0

One of our reference speaker systems is the Magnepan 1.7i.  The Cherry MEGA MK2 was designed to drive speakers like this for an "open and airy" sound.
Title: Summer Sale in full swing
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 5 Jul 2019, 04:06 pm
We have a Summer Sale going on.  Mostly demos, but some new hardware, too.  Our previous deal on 2-CHerry and 3-CHerry has been extended as well.  Email Support@DigitalAmp.com for the price list!!
Title: New simple reference system experiment
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 11 Jul 2019, 12:02 pm
Here’s a great system, yet VERY simple:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=164657.0
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier® ---- What We're About
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 19 Sep 2019, 05:16 pm
We received a question about the differences between ILM, DTM, and STM.  Here's the answer, which covers more than just those models....

ILM and DTM are monoblocks, so they come with separate (external) power supplies for each channel.  Early versions had a single power supply driving both channels, but we haven’t done that since 2014 or so.  The same Maraschino Monoblock boards are inside the ILM and DTM, but the connector arrangement is different to accommodate the case style.  The Golden Cherry (GCM) is our top-of-the-line DTM, and includes triple rail caps, no-sleep mod, modulator tweaks (modified Maraschino Monoblock boards), gold cases, and 6” DC_SNAKEs.  The gold cases can be changed to black or red if desired.

The ILM can’t fit triple rail caps, but the DTM/GCM can, and so can the new 2-CHerry, which now comes with triple rail caps standard, even in the non-KING version.  The 2-CHerry is our newest amp, and uses the same 60V 1kW power supply as KING Maraschinos, but the power supply is internal.  The 2-CHerry also uses Power Pipes™ to connect the power supply rails to the amp boards, which are Maraschino Monoblock boards mounted vertically.  A single power supply drives both channels in the 2-CHerry.  The 2-CHerry is part of our “x-Cherry” series (2-5 channels).  More information on our x-CHerry amps:
https://www.cherryamp.com/5-channel-amp

The STM also uses one power supply (external) to drive both channels.  It’s an integrated amp, so you get a volume control and an input selector.  We also have a new (not officially released yet) MK2 version that features higher efficiency and even lower distortion than the original STM.  We can modify existing STMs to be MK2, but this is a labor intensive mod.  Price for the STM MK2 mod is not set yet.

The sound quality of all our Maraschino based amps is almost identical.  Fast, clean, and powerful.  Super low noise.  There’s a sweetness about these amps that’s well recognized.  Some say “liquid” or “extremely musical”.  They control speakers very well at all frequencies and levels.  The STM is close to the sound of the monoblocks, but distortion performance is slightly better with the monoblock boards.

By the way, the mini-MEGA was put on hold in favor of the 2-CHerry, since the goals of that configuration were more than met with the 2-CHerry.  Our digital preamp is under development, and we expect prototypes more toward the end of the year.  It will have analog outputs (two stereo pairs -- one balanced, and one single ended) as opposed to the original plan of digital outputs.  We expect audio performance to be the same as our 130dB+ Cherry DAC DAC 2 HS.

Title: Preamp Follow Up
Post by: RonN5 on 20 Sep 2019, 12:04 am
Tommy,

I'm glad that the preamp is still in the works....Going with the analog outputs is a good decision...otherwise, its more difficult to connect to a sub. 

Would also suggest, if possible, to have the voltage output of the balanced and the RCAs be the same...why....because assume that the balanced outputs are 4v and i'm running those to my 2Cherry (which I absolutely love)....and then assume the RCA outputs are 2v and I'm running those to my sub....even though the sub has an input gain control...getting the overall balance between the mains and the sub is much easier if the output voltages match.  (or if it is simpler, maybe just go with double balanced outputs and include the neutrik balanced/rca adapters)

I hope this ship hasn't already sailed...but maybe one pair of analog inputs should be included for all the turntable/analog people....

One final thing....if possible, please offer a remote...not having one will likely turn away customers....why...because those of us that use a preamp probably have a number of things input into the preamp and we want it to be master control.

Thanks for listening.
Title: Re: Preamp Follow Up
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 20 Sep 2019, 03:00 am
Tommy,

I'm glad that the preamp is still in the works....Going with the analog outputs is a good decision...otherwise, its more difficult to connect to a sub. 

Would also suggest, if possible, to have the voltage output of the balanced and the RCAs be the same...why....because assume that the balanced outputs are 4v and i'm running those to my 2Cherry (which I absolutely love)....and then assume the RCA outputs are 2v and I'm running those to my sub....even though the sub has an input gain control...getting the overall balance between the mains and the sub is much easier if the output voltages match.  (or if it is simpler, maybe just go with double balanced outputs and include the neutrik balanced/rca adapters)

I hope this ship hasn't already sailed...but maybe one pair of analog inputs should be included for all the turntable/analog people....

One final thing....if possible, please offer a remote...not having one will likely turn away customers....why...because those of us that use a preamp probably have a number of things input into the preamp and we want it to be master control.

Thanks for listening.
Ron,

You’re on.  ALL OF IT !!  Thanks (:

-Tommy O
Title: Re: Preamp Follow Up
Post by: lewdogg on 20 Sep 2019, 05:22 pm
Ron,

You’re on.  ALL OF IT !!  Thanks (:

-Tommy O

GD, more things to take my money?!?!?!  :duh: :duh: :duh:
Title: Preamp Follow Up
Post by: RonN5 on 20 Sep 2019, 06:28 pm
Tommy....forgot to mention soft start for the preamp so as to minimize the thump...and to future proof....maybe a 12 volt trigger if possible.

lewdog....No doubt that Tommy will not release the preamp until it meets the Cherry sonic targets that have made us all so happy with his amps and dacs...so for me, as long as the price is not in the stratosphere, I'm in.
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier® ---- What We're About 🍒
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 7 Jan 2020, 04:01 am
Getting ready for our Winter Sale, including this pair of Golden Cherry Monoblocks:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=166699.0

Email Support@DigitalAmp.com for the preliminary price list....
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier® ---- What We're About 🍒
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 7 Jan 2020, 10:29 pm
Getting ready for our Winter Sale, including this pair of Golden Cherry Monoblocks:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=166699.0

Email Support@DigitalAmp.com for the preliminary price list....

We're already running out of some items!
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier® ---- What We're About 🍒
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 17 Feb 2020, 01:01 am
2020 Video Product Brochure:
https://youtu.be/nL5IGvSHE9M

We’d like your comments, please !!
Title: Sending Newsletter Wednesday
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 18 Mar 2020, 06:02 am
If you didn't receive our newsletter by Thursday, please let us know by emailing Support@DigitalAmp.com.  Thanks.

Subscribe here, so you don't miss the next one:
https://bit.ly/2FdSR7K
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier® ---- What We're About 🍒
Post by: dwmaggie on 19 Mar 2020, 08:22 pm
I have been lucky.  I found a used DAC4800A at The Music Room in CO.  I was impressed from the beginning.  It replaced my pair of Denon POA6600 amps.  The difference was night and day, the improvement was miles above the Denon, or the Acurus 2003.  Next 6 months were a search for another DAC amp and multiple visits to the DAC web page.  Ebay had a 60V King Maraschino for sale.  Negotiated a little better price, about 30 some days later I purchased a new to me demo 60V King Maraschino direct Digital Amp Co.  Why?  There is something magical in these Cherries, they just seem to get out of the way of music-soft or played loudly.  They are there.....but not there either.  Speakers are various Magnepans.  Pre is either a Sherbourn PT7010A or Parasound Halo C2.  A Oppo BDP 95 for SACDs etc.  Not the best, not pedestrian either.
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier® ---- What We're About 🍒
Post by: Wind Chaser on 19 Mar 2020, 09:21 pm
There is something magical in these Cherries, they just seem to get out of the way of music-soft or played loudly. They are there.....but not there either.

Well put. They are the only amplifiers I know of that don’t have an identifiable signature. Total stealth.
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier® ---- What We're About 🍒
Post by: dwmaggie on 19 Mar 2020, 09:27 pm
Wind Chaser thank you for your kind words.  Writing has never been easy for me.  You gave the Cherries a new logo to work with, A Stealth Amplifier, love it.  Thank you again.
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier® ---- What We're About 🍒
Post by: Wind Chaser on 19 Mar 2020, 09:53 pm
 :thumb:
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier® ---- What We're About 🍒
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 22 Mar 2020, 07:22 pm
Our “Don’t Get Stuck” sale is in full swing.  Our newsletter subscribers were alerted last week, but you can get the sale list by emailing Support@DigitalAmp.com.  Thanks (:
Title: COVID-19 STATEMENT
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 15 Apr 2020, 07:23 am
We are open.

WE LOVE OUR CUSTOMERS !!

Stay safe and healthy, everyone (:

Email us at Support@DigitalAmp.com if you're interested in, or would like to show your support for, Digital Amplifier Company, or the Cherry Amplifier® Brand.  Thanks for your continued support.
Title: Re: COVID-19 STATEMENT
Post by: AvsFan on 17 Apr 2020, 12:42 am
We are open.

WE LOVE OUR CUSTOMERS !!

Stay safe and healthy, everyone (:

Email us at Support@DigitalAmp.com if you're interested in, or would like to show your support for, Digital Amplifier Company, or the Cherry Amplifier® Brand.  Thanks for your continued support.

And your customers LOVE you too Tommy!

Sitting here in musical bliss because of your Golden Cherries! I work from home and my two channel system is in my office. Well...... when you are done with your work day and don't want to leave work/the office because you're enjoying the music, well..... that says a lot!  :D

The late nights and skipped meals, making sure we get state of the art audio equipment from you! Your efforts are much appreciated!   
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier® ---- What We're About 🍒 -- PLUS COVID-19 STATEMENT
Post by: Wind Chaser on 17 Apr 2020, 01:52 am
Avs,

What speakers are you using with your new Cherry amps?
Title: Re: COVID-19 STATEMENT
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 17 Apr 2020, 02:08 am
And your customers LOVE you too Tommy!

Sitting here in musical bliss because of your Golden Cherries! I work from home and my two channel system is in my office. Well...... when you are done with your work day and don't want to leave work/the office because you're enjoying the music, well..... that says a lot!  :D

The late nights and skipped meals, making sure we get state of the art audio equipment from you! Your efforts are much appreciated!
Thanks for your heartwarming message!  I’m honored to have you as a customer (:
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier® ---- What We're About 🍒 -- PLUS COVID-19 STATEMENT
Post by: AvsFan on 17 Apr 2020, 08:56 pm
Avs,

What speakers are you using with your new Cherry amps?

I think I've already answered your question in some other threads, but the LRS's.

Looks like you we a little impatient and did not want to wait, so you went with the .7's?
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier® ---- What We're About 🍒 -- PLUS COVID-19 STATEMENT
Post by: Wind Chaser on 17 Apr 2020, 09:42 pm
Waiting up to three months is out of the question so I went for the .7 version.
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier® ---- What We're About 🍒 -- PLUS COVID-19 STATEMENT
Post by: AvsFan on 17 Apr 2020, 11:01 pm
Waiting up to three months is out of the question so I went for the .7 version.

I’ll sell you my LRS’s tomorrow.  :D
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier® ---- What We're About 🍒 -- PLUS COVID-19 STATEMENT
Post by: Wind Chaser on 17 Apr 2020, 11:13 pm
I’ll sell you my LRS’s tomorrow.  :D

Even though the .7 is on the way, perhaps I should entertain that idea? What’s your next move?
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier® ---- What We're About 🍒 -- PLUS COVID-19 STATEMENT
Post by: AvsFan on 18 Apr 2020, 10:14 pm
Even though the .7 is on the way, perhaps I should entertain that idea? What’s your next move?

1.7i's
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier® ---- What We're About 🍒 -- PLUS COVID-19 STATEMENT
Post by: AvsFan on 18 Apr 2020, 10:15 pm
Even though the .7 is on the way, perhaps I should entertain that idea? What’s your next move?

I'm already talking to the HI-FI shop I got them from and they'll give me a full refund towards the 1.7i's.
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier® ---- What We're About 🍒 -- PLUS COVID-19 STATEMENT
Post by: AvsFan on 18 Apr 2020, 10:19 pm
Even though the .7 is on the way, perhaps I should entertain that idea? What’s your next move?

To be honest, I don't think I am going to go that route. I REALLY like the LRS's. I'm adding dual subs. I think that will be plenty for this room. I think the 1.7i's are not needed.
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier® ---- What We're About 🍒 -- PLUS COVID-19 STATEMENT
Post by: Wind Chaser on 18 Apr 2020, 11:28 pm
I don’t know how much difference there is between the two models but I won’t entertain the idea of anything bigger than .7 in my small room. I suppose I could sell the .7 and buy your LRS... What color and trim package are they?
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier® ---- What We're About 🍒 -- PLUS COVID-19 STATEMENT
Post by: AvsFan on 19 Apr 2020, 01:02 am
I don’t know how much difference there is between the two models but I won’t entertain the idea of anything bigger than .7 in my small room. I suppose I could sell the .7 and buy your LRS... What color and trim package are they?

And if you did, you don't have to worry about break in.  :D
Black cloth and the dark walnut or whatever they call it. Unless you're up there looking at the LRSs's from the side, you rally can't see the  finish.
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier® ---- What We're About 🍒 -- PLUS COVID-19 STATEMENT
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 19 Apr 2020, 04:55 am
I'm already talking to the HI-FI shop I got them from and they'll give me a full refund towards the 1.7i's.
Love my 1.7i speakers!  Not for “huge bass”, but so “silky”.
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier® ---- What We're About 🍒 -- PLUS COVID-19 STATEMENT
Post by: AvsFan on 19 Apr 2020, 10:48 pm
Love my 1.7i speakers!  Not for “huge bass”, but so “silky”.

I love my LRS's and with the new GC's, I am actually very pleased with the bass. Tigjt, fast, controlled, not sloppy or boomy at all. But no matter how good the bass is, they still need help below 60hz. A lot of help. And they are not dynamic in the bass department. No visceral punch or kick to kick drums. Four 8's will definitely change that!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=207473)

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=207474)
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier® ---- What We're About 🍒 -- PLUS COVID-19 STATEMENT
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 20 Apr 2020, 01:08 am
I love my LRS's and with the new GC's, I am actually very pleased with the bass. Tigjt, fast, controlled, not sloppy or boomy at all. But no matter how good the bass is, they still need help below 60hz. A lot of help. And they are not dynamic in the bass department. No visceral punch or kick to kick drums. Four 8's will definitely change that!
How do you connect the subs?  They look great, by the way. How’s the sound with the LRSs and subs working together?  Thanks.
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier® ---- What We're About 🍒 -- PLUS COVID-19 STATEMENT
Post by: Wind Chaser on 20 Apr 2020, 02:58 am
If he isn’t using a preamp, then most likely high level inputs via Cherry Power.
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier® ---- What We're About 🍒 -- PLUS COVID-19 STATEMENT
Post by: AvsFan on 20 Apr 2020, 04:11 am
How do you connect the subs?  They look great, by the way. How’s the sound with the LRSs and subs working together?  Thanks.

My Yamaha has a sub pre-out on it. It's very versatile. But, I won't be using it. I am having a passive pre-amp built for me right now that has a set of balanced in for the 1HS DAC that I am getting back.  :D
It has a set of balanced out to go to the Golden Cherries and I had him put in a set of unbalanced RCA out's to go to two stereo subs.

Those are pictures of the person who is selling it to me. I don't have it yet. Soon. And I have used a version of this sub before in some speakers he built me a few years ago. They are VERY fast. I have never dealt with a dual 8 version though. Should be ridiculously good with the Maggie's.   

Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier® ---- What We're About 🍒 -- PLUS COVID-19 STATEMENT
Post by: in1unison on 28 Apr 2020, 11:31 pm
Love my 1.7i speakers!  Not for “huge bass”, but so “silky”.

What do you mean by "not for the huge bass?" These babies rock!
Title: Stephen Stone article about Class-D amplifiers
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 1 May 2020, 08:56 pm
Stephen Stone article about Class-D amplifiers:
https://audiophilereview.com/audiophile-news/whats-the-current-state-of-digital-amplifiers.html

Is Cherry the only finished product manufacturer left that actually designs amplifier circuitry instead of just putting pre-fab modules in a fancy box?  Sure, some say they “tweak” the hardware, but if they don’t know how to design an amplifier, how can they know what they’re doing when making changes?
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier® ---- What We're About 🍒 -- PLUS COVID-19 STATEMENT
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 4 May 2020, 01:32 am
Your amps have always gotten seriously great feedback.  You are a really great designer.  I hope you continue to make your amps better and better.
Thanks for the compliment!  I'm honored to have this said about my work (:
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier® ---- What We're About 🍒 -- PLUS COVID-19 STATEMENT
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 9 May 2020, 08:01 am
If you emailed us recently and haven't received a response yet, don't worry, we're catching up on emails as fast as possible.  A few weeks ago we sent a newsletter  (https://bit.ly/2FdSR7K to sign up) regarding a demo sale, and we received a flood of replies.  Thanks to all who responded, and hope you're staying safe and healthy.

....and if you have an urgent request, please email us at Support@DigitalAmp.com with "URGENT" in the subject line.
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier® ---- What We're About 🍒 -- PLUS COVID-19 STATEMENT
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 13 May 2020, 11:05 pm
Interview featured on Enjoy the Music today:
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/manufacture/0520/10_Questions_Tommy_OBrien_Digital_Amplifier_Company.htm
Title: Cherry Amplifier® 🍒 to attend HiFi Summit !!
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 31 May 2020, 12:37 am
Digital Amp Co’s Cherry Amplifier® 🍒 will be attending The HiFi Summit, a new online trade show !!

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=170480.0
Title: The HiFi Summit -- first online audio trade show
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 26 Jun 2020, 01:51 pm
We are exhibiting at The HiFi Summit, the first online audio trade show.  Show starts in 2 hours:
https://thehifisummit.com/

Check it out!  Thanks (:
Title: speaker thread getting huge
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 9 Jul 2020, 11:26 am
I started a thread about speakers under $3000/pr a week ago, and it’s almost to 4000 page reads and 8 pages:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=171140.0

If you’re thinking about speakers in this price range, you might want to browse the suggestions, some of which might be new to you as they were to me!
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier® ---- What We're About 🍒
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 4 Sep 2020, 05:26 pm
Yesterday, we launched our new Kickstarter (DAC DAC 3)!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/digitalampco/cherry-dac-dac-3

We are at 92% already, less than 24 hours into the program!  Please help us spread the word (:  Thanks !!

To follow along with updates, visit here:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=172243.0
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier® ---- What We're About 🍒
Post by: scenic on 13 Sep 2020, 08:52 am
Hello, I have the opportunity to buy the used Desktop Maraschino 36v DTM with 60v power supply. Generally known that Cherry amps are "dead" quiet, but I read somewhere that options with a more powerful power supply unit may have some background noise with high sensitivity speakers. I own 96db sensitivity loudspeakers. Could I have any problem with background noise through my loudspeakers with 60v power supply Maraschinos?
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier® ---- What We're About 🍒
Post by: sumoking on 14 Sep 2020, 04:53 am
I have those amps with 60V power supply and my speakers are 97db.
No issues. Dead quiet. Sound marvelous!
What speakers do you have?
Cheers!
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier® ---- What We're About 🍒
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 14 Sep 2020, 01:09 pm
Hello, I have the opportunity to buy the used Desktop Maraschino 36v DTM with 60v power supply. Generally known that Cherry amps are "dead" quiet, but I read somewhere that options with a more powerful power supply unit may have some background noise with high sensitivity speakers. I own 96db sensitivity loudspeakers. Could I have any problem with background noise through my loudspeakers with 60v power supply Maraschinos?
The source itself needs to be quiet to take advantage of the Maraschino’s 118dB SNR.  I use JTR 210RTs (95dB sensitivity) frequently, and they are super quiet at idle.  The Maraschinos are usually driven by a Cherry DAC DAC 1 HS (124dB SNR) or DAC DAC 2 HS (130dB SNR).  So, no worries with your system assuming a quiet source.

We are also running a Kickstarter currently (ends on the 24th) with great deals on NEW Maraschinos:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/digitalampco/cherry-dac-dac-3
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier® ---- What We're About 🍒
Post by: rodge827 on 14 Sep 2020, 01:16 pm
My 2 Cherry DACDAC 2HSV combo is dead quiet on my 100db Charney Audio horns.
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier® ---- What We're About 🍒
Post by: pompon on 14 Sep 2020, 08:29 pm
I have 3 way active speakers (18inch 100db 45-300hz, 8inch mid 300-2.8k 97db, ribbon tweeter 95db).

Option 1 :
- x-2 for bass (45hz+)
- x-4 for mids and highs

Option 2:
- x-3 for the left speaker
- x-3 for the right speaker

It's the same price.

X-3 have triple rail so the mids/highs can have it. Let me the possibility to hide the amp behind my open baffle (while they are at 45 inch from the wall).

Considering my amplified subwoofers take care 45hz- (18db/oct) and the 18inch do 45hz+ 18db/oct do you think Option 1 is better than Option 2 ?

I tend to prefer Option 2 to have amp very close to the speakers.
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier® ---- What We're About 🍒
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 15 Sep 2020, 03:29 am
I have 3 way active speakers (18inch 100db 45-300hz, 8inch mid 300-2.8k 97db, ribbon tweeter 95db).

Option 1 :
- x-2 for bass (45hz+)
- x-4 for mids and highs

Option 2:
- x-3 for the left speaker
- x-3 for the right speaker

It's the same price.

X-3 have triple rail so the mids/highs can have it. Let me the possibility to hide the amp behind my open baffle (while they are at 45 inch from the wall).

Considering my amplified subwoofers take care 45hz- (18db/oct) and the 18inch do 45hz+ 18db/oct do you think Option 1 is better than Option 2 ?

I tend to prefer Option 2 to have amp very close to the speakers.
I would choose option 2 and put the amps close to the speakers (short speaker cables) -- like monoblocks, which these will essentially be.
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier® ---- What We're About 🍒
Post by: pompon on 16 Sep 2020, 03:11 pm
According to web site,
Double rail cap on 3-CHerry, 4-CHerry, and 5-CHerry

Kickstarter state 3-cherry as triple rail.

Who tell the truth ? 8-)
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier® ---- What We're About 🍒
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 19 Sep 2020, 03:15 am
According to web site,
Double rail cap on 3-CHerry, 4-CHerry, and 5-CHerry

Kickstarter state 3-cherry as triple rail.

Who tell the truth ? 8-)
As mentioned in response to your similar comment on the DAC DAC 3 Kickstarter thread, the enclosure design was modified, and new 3-CHerry amps have triple rail caps.  Thanks for catching the outdated information on our web site.
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier® ---- What We're About 🍒
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 21 Sep 2020, 05:18 pm
Quick Update on our DAC DAC 3 Kickstarter:  Currently at 266% with 69 HOURS left!!
The link: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/digitalampco/cherry-dac-dac-3

Only 22 hours left on the MEGAschino MK2 Stereo LC offer detailed here:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=172243.msg1823765#msg1823765
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier® ---- What We're About 🍒
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 25 Sep 2020, 06:39 am
Quick Update on our DAC DAC 3 Kickstarter:  Currently at 266% with 69 HOURS left!!
The link: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/digitalampco/cherry-dac-dac-3

Only 22 hours left on the MEGAschino MK2 Stereo LC offer detailed here:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=172243.msg1823765#msg1823765

We did it!!  Thanks to our 26 backers 🙂

288% funded
Title: Re: Cherry Amplifier® ---- What We're About 🍒
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 24 Feb 2021, 03:39 am
Check out this awesome video showing two home theater systems and one massive two channel system.  JTR and other speakers.  Cherry and other amps.
https://youtu.be/xKLLiMqOfyE