DSP for my X3s, Why not?

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 1423 times.

Desertpilot

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 472
  • Retired
Re: DSP for my X3s, Why not?
« Reply #20 on: 30 Jul 2022, 07:54 pm »
Yes, that's totally normal and is what's known as insertion loss.  To deal with the volume swap between filters, you can use the Audiolense or Mitch's own Hang Loose Convolver which will balance all volume for you automatically so you just select them and listen.   ;)

Thanks Jason,

Mitch told me he would fix volume reduction.  We are just not there yet.

Here's an interesting thought.  When I was younger, much younger, my Dad would call me for "tech support" because he couldn't get his computer to work.  I would get so frustrated because he didn't understand computer "lingo".  Thus, calls would last much longer.  My email interactions with Mitch strike me as familiar.  I do not know all the DSP lingo.  A few times, I confused him terribly, as I was trying to explain what was happening here at my home.  But, Mitch is patient and we are making it work.


jtwrace

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 11401
  • www.theintellectualpeoplepodcast.com
    • TIPP YouTube Channel
Re: DSP for my X3s, Why not?
« Reply #21 on: 30 Jul 2022, 08:17 pm »
Thanks Jason,

Mitch told me he would fix volume reduction.  We are just not there yet.

Here's an interesting thought.  When I was younger, much younger, my Dad would call me for "tech support" because he couldn't get his computer to work.  I would get so frustrated because he didn't understand computer "lingo".  Thus, calls would last much longer.  My email interactions with Mitch strike me as familiar.  I do not know all the DSP lingo.  A few times, I confused him terribly, as I was trying to explain what was happening here at my home.  But, Mitch is patient and we are making it work.
He can only fix so much unless there isn't much with your system since it's not fully active (hopefully you'll do that next).  I would suggest using REW and just play some pink noise with an SPL meter at your listening position using both filters so you know if you need to adjust the volume and if so, by how much. 

Desertpilot

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 472
  • Retired
Re: DSP for my X3s, Why not?
« Reply #22 on: 2 Aug 2022, 08:06 pm »
The new music server (Intel NUC12 (i9)) is performing flawlessly.  This has turned out to be an excellent purchase!  One thing I noticed while listening and switching between using the DSP filters and not using them is the volume difference, now that I have the new computer, is not as great as it was before.

Mitch wrote me today and said he thinks my frequency response using his 2nd filter set is excellent.  I agree.  He welcomes a new set of measurements because we want to nail down a final set of filters.  He thinks I got the subwoofer volumes on all three X3s aligned perfectly using each speaker's volume control.  Later this week, I will run new sweeps using Audiolense XO (from the new computer).  I also want to run REW and see what it has to say.

My impression of music with Mitch's DSP filters is getting better all the time.  Instruments sound more precisely placed within the soundstage.  Clarity is improved as well.  Once I complete the measurements, I will post results.

Thanks
Marcus

Desertpilot

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 472
  • Retired
Re: DSP for my X3s, Why not?
« Reply #23 on: 5 Aug 2022, 07:53 pm »
My final thoughts.

I completed a new set of measurements (Audiolense XO, Version 6.20) and sent them off to Mitch.  He replied with a third filterset which I am now using.  I will give it a lot of listening time over the next few days.  I can still switch between using the filters or not using them right from the MLP.

Minor changes:
- Incorporate a 30 Hz crossover for my front three X3s to my SVS Subwoofers.
- Keep the 90 Hz crossover on my rear SVS Bookshelf speakers.
- Confirmed that all three X3 subwoofers now have equal volume.

Mitch's overall judgment:  "You are getting excellent frequency and timing response."  My judgment with the 2nd filterset was excellent.  Subtle changes, for sure, but I always preferred using the filters.  Never any colorization or detriment to the sound.  I'm looking forward to extensive listening with the 3rd filterset.  Hopefully, no more measurements or new filtersets.  I think we are done.

Marcus

Desertpilot

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 472
  • Retired
Re: DSP for my X3s, Why not?
« Reply #24 on: 8 Aug 2022, 08:28 pm »
Mitch and I spoke today about the third filterset.  If you want to know what he does when designing filters, watch his YouTube video, "Understanding the State of the Art of Digital Room Correction", https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfGAUvyvdNU&t=5010s.  I admit, he presents a lot of information and it can be tough to get through it in one sitting.  I had to watch it several times.  But, once you find out his process, you realize this truly is "State of the Art" stuff.

Edit:  The YouTube video that got me connected with Mitch was an interview by Jason (The Intellectual People Podcast).  This might be the best way to learn about DSP and Mitch Barnett.  Accurate Sound Calibration using Digital Signal Processing (DSP) | Mitch Barnett, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1n8o7Wv4LQ.

Over the weekend, I listened to hours of music (classical, multichannel surround).  Music included orchestras, ensembles, vocals and choirs.  In my opinion, he made an already great sounding system even better.  Clarity, realism, width and depth are all improved.  Never once did I feel the sound quality was diminished.  In fact, I was so enjoying all the music, I didn't fall sleep in my recliner (how's that for no listening fatigue!).

We are done with the process.  I can put the measurement microphone away!  Mitch did give me two methods to overcome "filter insertion loss".  I'll try each one.  But, even with no changes, I have plenty of volume so this is a low priority.

Here's Mitch's assessment:  "... you are getting an excellent response, both in the frequency and time domain. Technically, you are getting the ideal minimum phase response to your ears without any frequency or time domain distortions."

Here's the "simulated" frequency response with Mitch's filters. 





Here is the "step" response:





I still don't understand all of it but his final thoughts to me were very motivating:  "That is an awesome open baffle system you have there, and the correction filters fully optimize what you have. I bet it sounds pretty good."

I agree.  Time to listen to music and forget about "adjustments".

Marcus
« Last Edit: 9 Aug 2022, 03:10 am by Desertpilot »