[Bullitt5094]

I guess you have to keep the DBs down as to not hurt the plants.

[Mike-48]

Now that everything's legal it's cheaper and better quality than home grow.

I was a student in the 1960s. That would have been our dream, a weed patch in the middle of an audio room! Ah well....
Good luck with the redesigned garden!

[jrocks29ms@gmail.com]

With your high end wall outlets. There are two sets of input posts for the electoral positive and negative.
Are y’all using a piece of wire as jumpers to have direct wire contact to both the sockets. I mean obviously it isn’t needed to function, but it is likely to increase the performance of the second socket

In my experience it made a difference in the volume and punch of bass of my subwoofer when doing this and plugging it into a jumped outlet verses the socket without the jumpers. Just curious if anyone else has tested this or has thoughts on it one way or another.

[BicycleJoe]

I'm working it out in the garden but meanwhile back on topic,

 What do people prefer for their high-end equipment?
Power Regulator Regenerators or Power conditioners isolation transformers.?

Paul McGowan says isolation transformers provide clean power at the cost of voltage regulation and impedance which degrades system performance.
Read https://www.psaudio.com/pauls-posts/its-not-that-simple/

When I asked Steve Deckert of Decware  if he preferred power conditioners or power regenerators specifically about my conditions,
I live on the top floor of an apartment building with 120 units 12 stories tall. he suggested an isolation transformer.

I'd like to get Danny's opinion on this question cause I know he uses batteries for his reference system

I'd like to get a chance to ask his opinion but but please chime in specifically about what Paul says about voltage regulation regulation and impedance did it it also isolates as well as a isolation transformer providing adequate clean power



Decware ZPC Zen Power Conditioner (Isolation Transformer)


PS audio Power Regenerator

[toocool4]

What do people prefer for their high-end equipment?
Power Regulator Regenerators or Power conditioners isolation transformers.?

I use a power regenerator, everything on the end of it is galvanically isolated from the incoming power. It regenerates the perfect 240V AC for the equipment on the end of it. What the equipment sees is a steady 240V AC as the regenerator is set to always deliver 240V no matter what is coming in.

[BicycleJoe]

jrocks29ms@gmail.com wrote

With your high end wall outlets. There are two sets of input posts for the electoral positive and negative.
Are y’all using a piece of wire as jumpers to have direct wire contact to both the sockets. I mean obviously it isn’t needed to function, but it is likely to increase the performance of the second socket

In my experience it made a difference in the volume and punch of bass of my subwoofer when doing this and plugging it into a jumped outlet verses the socket without the jumpers. Just curious if anyone else has tested this or has thoughts on it one way or another.


My opinion is you need to back up look where you are and what kind of equipment you have, you are creating a fire hazard, 120 V is nothing to fuck around with

[BicycleJoe]

I use a power regenerator, everything on the end of it is galvanically isolated from the incoming power. It regenerates the perfect 240V AC for the equipment on the end of it. What the equipment sees is a steady 240V AC as the regenerator is set to always deliver 240V no matter what is coming in.

Thanks too cool, I am in a 120 V World I'm thinking that with almost 120 apartments ahead of me on the buildings power an isolation transformer might work to my advantage. You do have a good regulation, Paul mentions impedance and voltage regulation as advantages of a power regenerator at the cost of clean power.
I'd like to see the pros and cons of both.

[Mike-48]

Back to the topic? I'm using a Torus RM-20, an isolation transformer with noise filtering and surge suppression. It made a difference to my ears with my former amp. I haven't tried removing it lately to see what I think now. Because of its inductance, its large toroidal transformer is said to provide a current reserve for peaks. I surely have not noticed any power limitation.

Paul McG. of course is primarily a salesman. A charming one, and he sells some nice products, but I'd advise keeping that in mind.

I avoid power regenerators as too complex and prone to failure over time. Basically, they are like feeding your equipment with the output of a power amplifier (one that outputs only a 120 Hz wave). I see that as intrinsically offering more paths to failure than simpler methods of power filtration.

That's how I see it. It's entirely possible that I'm wrong about any or all of it.

[toocool4]

BicycleJoe when I installed the regenerator in my system many years ago, the difference it made to the sound was huge.

Mike-48 I will have been in my new flat 3 years by next month, the regenerator has been on since then as I never turn my system off. I have had no failure yet, the regenerator is designed to be on all the time. I am not saying a failure is impossible, anything can fail.
The only downside to the regenerator I see is, it’s pricy to run. If it’s on, it's eating power.

[BicycleJoe]

toocool4 & Mike-48 thanks for answering

Toocool wrote BicycleJoe when I installed the regenerator in my system many years ago, the difference it made to the sound was huge.

Mike 48 wrote I'm using a Torus RM-20, an isolation transformer with noise filtering and surge suppression. I avoid power regenerators as too complex and prone to failure over time. Basically, they are like feeding your equipment with the output of a power amplifier (one that outputs only a 120 Hz wave). I see that as intrinsically offering more paths to failure than simpler methods of power filtration.

Two sides of the coin.
Both very valid points of view and why I am researching further.

I have an appointment to talk to Steve Deckert today about the ZPC power conditioner (iso transformer) on his website he mentions that basically a regenerator is an amplifier. He wrote "Some people will wonder how this approach compares to a power re-generator so it pays to know that a power re-generator is a large power amplifier. It simply plays a 50/60 cycle note (sine wave) instead of music. It is, nevertheless, an amplifier whose performance is affected by incoming power quality just like anything else therefor it would make sense to plug a power re-generator in the Zen Line Conditioner."

So what comes first the chicken or the egg?

Stereophile's Larry Greenville reviewed the Torus TOT AVR and compared it to his reference RM 20, he wrote "The TOT AVR is 48.9 lbs lighter, 6.5" narrower, 2.5" shallower, 2.3" shorter, and $1300 cheaper than the Torus Power RM 20 I've used for the last eight years. Unlike the RM 20 and the two other TOTs, the TOT AVR can also regulate the AC line voltage so that it remains at 120V, ±5V. Surge protection is an option for extra cash"

So putting these two points of view together with what Paul says that more important than clean power is impedance and voltage regulation.

In addition to my living in 120 apartment building that's wired for digital VIOS inside the walls, I have other concerns.
In New York City in the summer we have thunderstorms almost every day, they may only last a half an hour but lightning cracks the sky.
The other concern of mine is in the summer months when temperatures hit 90 - 100° we have controlled brownouts that restrict power.

There is no way I can afford both unless I can find two entry level units.
Funny enough there is a discontinued PS Audio Power Plant Premier Power Controller Surge Conditioner Regenerator (picture above) used at a decent price but it's a very old unit. 6 out of 10..

Like the Rolling Stones said. https://youtu.be/j5RVsgmUrnY

[Elizabeth]

I would stay away from that particular PS Audio product. the PPP or PS Audio Power Plant Premier Power Controller Surge Conditioner Regenerator was not made in house. and can have problems. I sold mine.
Brownouts are a big deal.. I would go for a device that regulated that.

I still use a Furman Ref20 (with all Furutech outlets) anda PS Audio P600 wit the frequency adjustment option (also all Furutech outlets)

[Mike-48]

BicycleJoe when I installed the regenerator in my system many years ago, the difference it made to the sound was huge.
I will have been in my new flat 3 years by next month, the regenerator has been on since then as I never turn my system off. I have had no failure yet, the regenerator is designed to be on all the time. I am not saying a failure is impossible, anything can fail.
The only downside to the regenerator I see is, it’s pricy to run. If it’s on, it's eating power.

I am glad it's worked for you. I always like to see fellow audiophiles get something that works for them. No doubt, such a unit can help.

A frequently made point in professional reviews is that one should buy a power conditioner only with right of return, because no such unit helps in all cases. I think that's wise.

Another issue I've seen with power conditioners of all kinds is that some emit a hum or buzz. In a quiet room, that's a problem. And we all hope for quiet rooms. (The RM-20 is dead silent.) That's another reason to buy something that can be returned . . . it might not be quiet enough for you.

As to reliability, I expect my RM-20 to be working exactly the same 20 years from now. But none of us can see the future.

I want to be clear: I'm not saying the Torus units are the best or only units to buy. The goal is to bring up some of the considerations one might have in buying a power unit.

[BicycleJoe]

I am glad it's worked for you. I always like to see fellow audiophiles get something that works for them. No doubt, such a unit can help.

A frequently made point in professional reviews is that one should buy a power conditioner only with right of return, because no such unit helps in all cases. I think that's wise.

Another issue I've seen with power conditioners of all kinds is that some emit a hum or buzz. In a quiet room, that's a problem. And we all hope for quiet rooms. (The RM-20 is dead silent.) That's another reason to buy something that can be returned . . . it might not be quiet enough for you.

As to reliability, I expect my RM-20 to be working exactly the same 20 years from now. But none of us can see the future.

Good advice MIKE I just wanna clarify those were Too Cool's words not mine, I don't have a power generator or a line conditioner isolation transformer yet.
I've got at least 13 months before my components from Decware arrive, I'd still like to hear from Danny since he's totally off grid with battery power for his whole system.

thanks Elizabeth good to know

[Mike-48]

Good advice MIKE I just wanna clarify those were Too Cool's words not mine...

Thanks for that! I knew it but it seems I quoted the wrong message. Have fun!

[jrocks29ms@gmail.com]

I am still curious to know if anyone has tried this. Is there any reason not to from a performance standpoint, or is my thinking that it may produce a second and possibly less hindered path of electrical conductivity for the second socket? 

 I am asking if anyone has done tests or knows if jumping can improve the conductivity or performance of the second outlet that isn't directly receiving the wires from the wall.

[Bullitt5094]

Seems to me it would only add to the possibility of another antenna to pick up noise. Doubtful it would make much difference in voltage drop. And I think I would choose some other color than green for the wires. The next home owner could be problematic with that.

[toocool4]

BicycleJoe if you really want to push the boat out, try StromTank. I use something similar but at a fraction of the StromTank price.
StromTank is pure battery power, so totally of grid.

https://stromtank.com/

[mikeeastman]

Stromtank is very very over priced for what it is, I can build an entire solar system to run a whole house for far less than what they want. It says pure sine wave but all inverters even the pure sine wave ones actually are not, in that the wave is actually a series of very small steps not a wave, most electronics can’t tell the difference though.

If you wanted to go that way you could build your own for far less and would easily have more battery storage, also if you use the right battery charger it can be left on all the time without effecting the sound quality.

[Theronbo]

Why not isolate the grid from components while protecting them.

This unit is $500 about 10% of the value of the equipment to protects.

Converts AC to DC & back to AC ‘Pure Sine Wave’.  Better would be to run off the batteries always… but that’s more money.


Maruson 1000VA Online Double-Conversion UPS Battery Backup System & Surge Protector, True Sine Wave, Tower, Single Phase Uninterruptible Power Supply, TUV Certified, TAC-LV1K 1000VA / 900W

[BicycleJoe]

Stromtank is very very over priced for what it is, I can build an entire solar system to run a whole house for far less than what they want. It says pure sine wave but all inverters even the pure sine wave ones actually are not, in that the wave is actually a series of very small steps not a wave, most electronics can’t tell the difference though.

If you wanted to go that way you could build your own for far less and would easily have more battery storage, also if you use the right battery charger it can be left on all the time without effecting the sound quality.

Yesterday I added to my order with Decware, a ZLC line conditioner which is just a quality isolation transformer, no special surge protection, no voltage control or changing impedance like a regenerator, it just cleans your power and isolates from the grid.. 30 day money back & a lifetime guarantee $995. When I talked to Steve he said that the Zen SE34.6 Rachel integrated amplifier will have no problem with brownouts deviating power out of the wall because of its massive transformer which is over overbuilt by more than 60%.  Although I would be still worried about power surges and lightning. My intention is to find the right power regenerator if I can and borrow one, Steve says that a power regenerator is basically an amplifier whose signal is a sin wave and that some of them have software built-in, circuit boards and solid state parts that degrade an SET flea watt. I'll have to judge for myself if it's a new improvement or a tone suck. I'll also be able to test them vice versa and alone separately to hear for myself.

Mike EastmanMike I live on the 12th floor in an apartment building with eastern exposure but I don't think even if they let me it would be economically viable with enough solar panels and I like my view but I want to speak with Danny Ritchie about it and how he does it. No roof access for anyone. Maybe a battery for the turntable would be possible.