Evolution STA Questions

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NoahH

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Evolution STA Questions
« on: 3 Apr 2022, 04:58 pm »
Hi all,
My amp search has gotten me directed to Nuprime but I have a lot of questions after some reading. Hoping folks here might be able to help.

1. I love the power supply focus in the marketing materials, but the inability to double wattage with halving impedence tends to mean the power supply is not overbuilt. Anyone know what this can't double given the supply focus?

2. Why is the switching speed down from the evo ones to the STAs?

3. How are either the ones or STAs switching that fast with MOSFET? I thought the limit was lower.

4. I was aligned with the input impedence focus on the Ones. Why was that dropped for the STA?

5. What is the damping factor on these?

Thanks to anyone who can help with even chunks of this!

seikosha

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Re: Evolution STA Questions
« Reply #1 on: 3 Apr 2022, 06:34 pm »
Don’t get too hung up on doubling of power from 8 to 4 ohms.  Any manufacturer can take their 100 watt amp into 4 or 8 ohms and then market it with the same powe supply as a 50 watt amp which doubles to 100 watts into 4 ohms.  Is it now all of the sudden a better amp?  Of course not.  It’s all marketing.  What you really need is to ignore manufacturers specs and see how the equipment measures by a competent independent 3rd party.
« Last Edit: 4 Apr 2022, 07:57 pm by seikosha »

NoahH

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Re: Evolution STA Questions
« Reply #2 on: 3 Apr 2022, 06:41 pm »
Don’t get too hung up on doubling of power from 8 to 4 ohms.  Any manufacturer can take their 100 watt amp into 4 or 8 ohms and then market it as a 50 watt amp which doubles to 100 watts into 4 ohms.  Is it now all of the sudden a better amp?  Of course not.  It’s all marketing.  What you really need is to ignore manufacturers specs and see how the equipment measures by a competent independent 3rd party.

I think that not doubling means that the PS is the limiting factor in the design. I think that is correlated with a lack of body. But I am asking directly here for the reasoning as I am very humble on not knowing everything and am eager to here technical reasoning here.

I would love for better 3rd party characterization, but that is unlikely to happen any time soon. ASR has set the standard for that so far and it is too low a standard to be useful.

mresseguie

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Re: Evolution STA Questions
« Reply #3 on: 3 Apr 2022, 07:46 pm »
NoahH,

I suspect Jason (rustydoglim) and the engineer who designed this amp are the only people able who can answer your questions. Jason is in Singapore; his engineer <I believe> is in Taiwan, so their timezones are very different from ours.

In another thread, Jason mentioned that the mono Evo One amps can still be ordered even though they're no longer listed on the website - if you deem them more suitable to your needs.

Michael

 

rustydoglim

Re: Evolution STA Questions
« Reply #4 on: 3 Apr 2022, 11:59 pm »
I don't understand the issue here. Did "NoahH" audition the Evo STA and arrive at the conclusion of lack of body (this amp has just been released and we have not heard any such comment from the few who have purchased or listened to it)?
We know what we are doing. Before joining us, our chief engineer spent 20 years designing power supplies as a profession, solid-state and tube amps as a hobby.
The power of Evo STA is among the highest in all our products (except MCX-1 and MCX-2). Evo One amp power rating is slightly higher than single-channel of Evo STA.
2 x 230W @ 8 ohms; 2 x 310W @ 4 ohms has more than enough power. There are also two very large capacitor banks too.


NoahH

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Re: Evolution STA Questions
« Reply #5 on: 4 Apr 2022, 03:36 am »
Hi Rusty,

No offense was meant - they were honest questions. The body thing was an explicit question because I *appreciate* the focus on power supply that your marketing docs have, but usually that focus also shows up with doubling between impedences. I described the question in a follow-up from others as 'with humility' because I suspect there are other reasons for the not-doubling, and wanted to confirm.

Note that this is also consistent with my question on damping factor - I am trying to understand how it will do with complex load.

The other questions are also very aligned towards that the Ones have marketing that is excellent and speaks to other topics I often see overlooked like input impedence. But that was dropped for the STA - I was curious as to why.

Generally, my questions were all seeking to understand some core design choices that I have found correlated to the situation I am trying to find candidate amps for, so I wanted to directly ask for the info rather than request an in-home trial from a dealer or direct when info like this could help me figure out if the STA or the Ones were good candidates

JackD

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Re: Evolution STA Questions
« Reply #6 on: 4 Apr 2022, 04:08 am »
Noah

You might want to read Christian Punter of HiFi Advice's review of the STA's "little brother" the ST-10.  He was able to use the ST-10 to drive Sabrina's, Watt/Puppy 8's, Apogee's and Vivid Giya's with no issue.  This would be an indication that the much more powerful STA would have no problems with your Wilson's and probably not your GR's either. 

https://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/amplifier-reviews/power-amplifier-reviews/nuprime-st-10-power-amp/

rustydoglim

Re: Evolution STA Questions
« Reply #7 on: 4 Apr 2022, 07:00 pm »
Quote
You might want to read Christian Punter of HiFi Advice's review of the STA's "little brother" the ST-10.
I think Noah is referring to Evolution STA not AMG STA.

Quote
No offense was meant - they were honest questions. The body thing was an explicit question because I *appreciate* the focus on power supply that your marketing docs have, but usually that focus also shows up with doubling between impedences.
Thanks for asking.  Usually that's the case because most vendors don't design their amps (using modules from Hypex, IcePower) or power supplies. But since we design both, we tend to optimize the power of 8 & 4 Ohm (obviously speaker's impedance is not discrete, so 8 and 4 are just spec)
Lets say we start with a design with a 200W PSU.  Perhaps we ended up with 100W @ 8 ohm and 200W @ 4ohm spec.  If we buy off-the-shelf amp modules, that's what we ended up with. But we could also design an amp for 200W @ 8ohm and 200W @ 4 Ohm, with the same 200W PSU.
One might argue that why not put in a 400W PSU. Well, the same logic goes where you ended up with 200W@8ohm and 400W@4Ohm. So why not design an amp for 400W @ 8 & 4 ohm.

Quote
But that was dropped for the STA - I was curious as to why.
The assistant engineer forgot.  I will get the info later this week.  I recall it is around 750K Ohm, still very high, but not 1M Ohm. 
We emphasized so much about 1M Ohm for Evolution One and AMG series, why did we drop the input impedance for Evolution STA?  Well, 1M Ohm is just a number, 750K is still very large but for Evo STA design, it works better.


JackD

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Re: Evolution STA Questions
« Reply #8 on: 4 Apr 2022, 07:17 pm »
Jason

I know what he was asking.  My point was that if the ST-10 could drive the two Wilsons and other difficult leads then the more powerful Evolution STA would have no issues at all.

NoahH

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Re: Evolution STA Questions
« Reply #9 on: 5 Apr 2022, 12:34 am »
Thanks for the context, Rusty. That is definitely helpful.