AudioCircle
Industry Circles => GR Research => Topic started by: Coreyportelli on 9 Aug 2021, 09:17 am
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Hi all, I’m pretty new to speaker building but am a woodworker so not new to woodwork.
My first and second speakers projects were TriTrix MTM’s.
I’ve since discovered the GR research videos on YouTube and have wanted to do a X series build.
I was debating for a while whether to build a X LS encore, or a X SLS encore, or a X MTM encore, I have since decided on the X MTM encore because I will be using these speakers in a large room for playing music without a subwoofer, so the larger two woofer speaker was selected.
I have started with the braces, I cut them on the saw at work marked out the hole centres and cut the holes out.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=228001)
these are one’s l have ready so far.
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Looks like you're off to a great start!
Looking forward to the rest of your build! :thumb:
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Looking good thus far!
I am curious if, prior to deciding on the X-MTM, you had the chance to listen to either of the three choices, or get any opinions from anyone who had direct experience with them?
I am in the same boat as you...
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I'm in the same dilemma as 'kickngas'; going to do a build soon. Want to upgrade my mains but not sure whether to go with X-MTM's or the X-SLS Encore. I have a subwoofer (Paradigm Defiance V10) and i must admit i do love bass but don't want to be overwhelmed by it. Concerned that the X-MTM may give me too much bass. My listening room is 14' wide by 22' long and the system is at a 45 degree angle in one corner (no options to move as per wife...LOL) and thus the mains are barely a foot away from angled wall. I generally sit about 10' away from system. Suggestions?
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Replying to Kickngas
No I haven’t listened to any of them, but the specs on the GR Research website shows the X MTM down point at -3db of 40Hz, and the X LS at -3db down point at 55Hz.
So the X MTM being a floor standing MTM design was the choice I went with.
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Replying to MJWilson_61
Depends on what you want the low end to sound like, I to have a Paradigm sub but I don’t like using it when I’m playing music.
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The braces are all made now
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=228040)
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I'm in the same dilemma as 'kickngas'; going to do a build soon. Want to upgrade my mains but not sure whether to go with X-MTM's or the X-SLS Encore. I have a subwoofer (Paradigm Defiance V10) and i must admit i do love bass but don't want to be overwhelmed by it. Concerned that the X-MTM may give me too much bass. My listening room is 14' wide by 22' long and the system is at a 45 degree angle in one corner (no options to move as per wife...LOL) and thus the mains are barely a foot away from angled wall. I generally sit about 10' away from system. Suggestions?
I’m building the X-SLS now to accommodate my listening situation that closely mirrors yours, plus you have the bonus option of forward firing port close to that wall. The SLS is really close to the MTM, -3dB@45Hz which should mean (I think) only a tiny bit of sub will be needed to get the bass I want.
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I started glueing the braces to the rear baffle last night, I’ve decided to start this way because this method makes the most sense to me.
Than I can square up the braces and glue in the sides later.
I’m using two strips of MDF to centre the braces on the baffle, so I know the sides will fit correctly.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=228119)
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I certainly am hoping you keep posting this step by step guide of your build! Most likely my next build as well.
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I definitely will 👍
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I'm in the same dilemma as 'kickngas'; going to do a build soon. Want to upgrade my mains but not sure whether to go with X-MTM's or the X-SLS Encore. I have a subwoofer (Paradigm Defiance V10) and i must admit i do love bass but don't want to be overwhelmed by it. Concerned that the X-MTM may give me too much bass. My listening room is 14' wide by 22' long and the system is at a 45 degree angle in one corner (no options to move as per wife...LOL) and thus the mains are barely a foot away from angled wall. I generally sit about 10' away from system. Suggestions?
I don't have direct experience with the SLS, but my experience with the MTM's in my room (17x27) is a measured in-room response below 30hz, and others have seen that as well. It is certainly not overwhelming, though. They dig deep, but the response is still fairly flat. You are far more likely to have issues with the room rather than the speaker when it comes to boominess. For example, I have very noticeable in-room peaks at 44hz & 134hz which are entirely room related.
Overall, I am very pleased with them and glad I chose them over the SLS.
OTOH, the MTMs are pretty darn big and require a fair amount of real estate, so the SLS may be a more livable option for everyone.
You probably can't go wrong with either choice.
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All the braces glued to the rear baffle now
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=228129)
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I don't have direct experience with the SLS, but my experience with the MTM's in my room (17x27) is a measured in-room response below 30hz, and others have seen that as well. It is certainly not overwhelming, though. They dig deep, but the response is still fairly flat. You are far more likely to have issues with the room rather than the speaker when it comes to boominess. For example, I have very noticeable in-room peaks at 44hz & 134hz which are entirely room related.
Overall, I am very pleased with them and glad I chose them over the SLS.
OTOH, the MTMs are pretty darn big and require a fair amount of real estate, so the SLS may be a more livable option for everyone.
You probably can't go wrong with either choice.
I agree that the sheer size of the MTM's at 46 x 16.5 x 8.5 may be overbearing for an angled setup - the SLS at 37 x 12 x 8.5 might be more palletable. It could be a nice hybrid if one could build an MTM style at the SLS dimensions. The CF of the enclosure would drop from 2.70 to 1.80 which i would suspect is significant in regard to min driver CF, port tube as well as possible effects of crossover network. It essentially would be like removing one section from internal brace to bottom. Bad idea?
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Would likely need to become a sealed cabinet for that ti work
Tho there will be a smaller transmission line version coming using the smaller M130 woofers that will replace the oler A/V-3 speakers.
And like the upcoming X-Bravo will use the same tweeter as the rest of the X lineup.
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Doing some more cutting today, this is the saw we have at work.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=228470)
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glueing and clamping the side on
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=228485)
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Nice equipment and space to have access to! Looking good.
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I have the sides and tops and bottoms glued on now, here they are standing next to one of my TriTrix speakers.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=228816)
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:o Beastly!
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I have the sides and tops and bottoms glued on now, here they are standing next to one of my TriTrix speakers.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=228816)
I have the XLS's with upgrades and the TL Tri-Trix speakers as well. I like them both amd think you'll probably like the X MTM's :)
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Nicely done, I was surprised at how big the boxes were once assembled. Do you have some final images?
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This is the stage there at now, I’m posting my progress as I go.
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Here’s a photo showing the outer edges being flush cut with the router, it makes things easier if you leave your edges slightly proud and then trim and sand them later.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=228937)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=228938)
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I’ve progressed a little more this week, this isn’t necessary but I like to give the inside of the cabinets a coat of varnish to seal the MDF.
And I’ve started joining up Oak veneer to cover the top, sides and the back, I’m going the paint the front baffle with a 2 pack black paint.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=229224)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=229225)
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Cutting the woofer holes now at 5.75” diameter with my home made hole cutting jig, and then cutting a 1/2 radius on the back of the woofer holes.
I ordered the kit from GR research the other day so when the kit arrives I will do some test cuts for the tweeter before I cut the tweeter holes in the front baffle.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=229270)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=229271)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=229272)
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Coming along nicely! :thumb:
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Thanks 👍
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I’m a bit in two minds at the moment, I’m going to veneer the boxes with Oak veneer and was planning to use MDF for the front baffles and paint them black.
But now I’m thinking of using solid Oak for the front baffles to keep the timber grain look consistent on the speakers, but I don’t want to take away any sound quality away from the speakers.
Dose anyone know if there would be any noticeable difference in sound between MDF or solid wood.
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If you don't mind me asking, why not veneer the front baffle as well? Sonically, solid Oak may be fine considering how well braced those cabinets are, but I might be concerned about movement over time due to temp or humidity.
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If you don't mind me asking, why not veneer the front baffle as well? Sonically, solid Oak may be fine considering how well braced those cabinets are, but I might be concerned about movement over time due to temp or humidity.
The reason why I don’t want to veneer the front is I want to have a 1/2 radius on the sides of the front baffles, it’s easier to have a 3/4 solid piece of wood there and router the sides.
But I just saw the NX-Otica on The new record day channel and they inspired me to go with the Oak veneer box and white front baffles, so I might keep the MDF front baffles after all.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=229463)
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The reason why I don’t want to veneer the front is I want to have a 1/2 radius on the sides of the front baffles, it’s easier to have a 3/4 solid piece of wood there and router the sides.
But I just saw the NX-Otica on The new record day channel and they inspired me to go with the Oak veneer box and white front baffles, so I might keep the MDF front baffles after all.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=229463)
I get it. When I built my MTM's I used one solid piece of veneer to cover the sides and front, but that requires one solid 4'x4' sheet to accomplish. Sounds like you have a solid plan.
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I pressed the first piece of veneer on one of the backs today, I’m using Oak veneer glued with polyurethane glue and pressed down with boards and clamps.
I get a little glue bleed through the veneer but the polyurethane sands quite well.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=229543)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=229544)
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Hi guys I’m currently waiting on parts and materials to progress with my build.
Im waiting for the kit from GR research, I’m also waiting for the veneer to cover the cabinets, so I’ve come to a bit of a stop at the moment.
I will continue as soon as I get my hands on the veneer.
I have decided to veneer the front baffle like the rest of the cabinets, I have a idea that will allow me to cut a 1/2” radius on each side of the front baffle.
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I like your progress thus far. I am trying to decide between the X-MTM Encore or NX Otica or Otica MTM. Decisions, decisions....either way I will go with dual OB subs. Why is this so hard!!?? I would love to opportunity to audition these options prior to purchasing. Anyone in NC have any of these speakers available for audition?
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In the past I’ve applied veneer with contact adhesive to see after a year or so it starts to crack and lift.
This method using polyurethane glue is a very good way of applying veneer because the polyurethane sets hard bonding the veneer to
The MDF for good.
After I spread the glue I apply the veneer, I then put wax paper over it to prevent any sticking to the press boards, then I clamp it up.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=230258)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=230259)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=230260)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=230261)
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I bought a box of vinyl tile to dampen the side walls of the cabinets
I’ve started cutting them and glueing them in with contact adhesive.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=230741)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=230742)
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I bought a box of vinyl tile to dampen the side walls of the cabinets
< Insert record joke here >
such a great thread! I wish I had the skills and the patience to pull off a build. these look fantastic so far. and with CLEAR pictures too!
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< Insert record joke here >
such a great thread! I wish I had the skills and the patience to pull off a build. these look fantastic so far. and with CLEAR pictures too!
You should buy your self a small kit like a C note or a X Bravo one of them would be a good first build
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Cutting and gluing in the vinyl tiles was a lot more work than I was expecting, I’m now almost done with this.
Im also currently waiting for the kit from GR Research, I need the port tubes so I can cut the holes in the backs before I fit the front baffles, I also need the tweeter’s so I can cut the recess for the tweeters.
All I can do now is put in the poly fill.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=231851)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=231852)
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Hi all it’s been a while since I’ve posted any updates, but I’ve received the kit parts now
so I should have a good run from now on.
Here’s a few pix of my latest progress, I’ve drilled the 7/16 holes for the tube connectors and started laying out the parts on the board for the crossover.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=235267)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=235331)
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Looking good!
(Remember to hide the parts values of the crossovers before posting, thanks!)
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One crossover completed
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=235333)
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Very clean! :thumb:
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Second crossover completed
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=235585)
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Crossovers and polyfill fitted to the cabinets, I used some spray on contact adhesive to help hold the polyfill to the sides
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=235519)
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Excellent build! They are going to look and sound great :thumb:
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I have a question for anyone that has some knowledge on this kit.
The plans for this kit show the ports to be 3 1/2 inches long, but the ports supplied in the kit are over 4 1/2 inches long, I was wondering if I need to cut these down?
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Danny says it's not necessary to cut them.
The longer tubes allow them to play lower, and shortening them will reduce that extension a little bit.
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Danny says it's not necessary to cut them.
The longer tubes allow them to play lower, and shortening them will reduce that extension a little bit.
Thanks for the information, do you know Danny personally.
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Hobbs works for Danny. If you call up GR Research you will probably talk to Hobbs :thumb:
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Danny has had a bit of a sore throat the last few days, so I've been manning the phones almost exclusively.
But if he's in the shop, he usually answers, if not then there's an 80% chance it'll be me. :P
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Nice 👍
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I used a 50mm Forstner bit to drill out the port holes, the port tube fit perfectly
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=235592)
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Excellent build! They are going to look and sound great :thumb:
Thanks for your comment 👍
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First cut made for the tweeter after doing some test cuts to adjust the diameter and depth of the cut
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=235972)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=235973)
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Those are coming along nicely.
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Thanks
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Driver test fit into front baffle
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=236144)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=236005)
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Looks nice. If you can, round off the corners.
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I was planning to put a 1/2” taper on the front edges, I hope this will be sufficient.
The reason for this is because I’m glueing the veneer on and it’s easier to put veneer on a flat surface.
Thanks for your input Danny, I’m enjoying building the kit.
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I’ve glued the front baffles on and have clamped down the veneer on the first side.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=236798)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=236799)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=236800)
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First side has veneer on it,
I can now get a look at what there going to look like.
I have had some glue bleed threw the veneer so I need to make sure all the glue is sanded off before I varnish the cabinets otherwise it will stand out.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=236840)
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Having that first look at the light at the end of the tunnel is where it gets exciting. You know up until then it will turn out awesome, but having the garage filled with dust and glue and clamps all over seems the project will never end. That first glimpse of almost finished project is a real motivator. Keep up the good work; they look awesome and will sound even better :thumb:
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Thanks 👍
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The right one has had some sanding done that’s why it looks lighter, but very happy with the Oak veneer grain.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=237091)
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Normally I'm not a huge fan of oak, but damn yours looks great. Love that grain pattern!
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I’ve cut a 1/2 chamfer on the front edges to help with diffraction.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=237512)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=237513)
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Nice. Narrower speaker front is always better when it comes to imaging.
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Cool. I'm liking the look of bevels instead of roundovers these days.
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It’s easier to veneer a flat edge opposed to a rounded edge as well.
Very happy with the way they look
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=237540)
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Just found your thread...
Nice work. I like the look of the oak. :thumb:
I know it has been a few days since you last posted... But did you chamfer the top corner too? Sorry if it is in the picture; I couldn’t tell. It would be good if it is, same as it is for the sides.
I finished my X-MTMs about a year ago and I am continually blown away with how good they sound.
Looking forward to following your build... :popcorn:
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Since you are removing some wood with the chamfer doesn't that compromise the strength of the corner?
Or are you compensating by adding a corner block on the inside?
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Since you are removing some wood with the chamfer doesn't that compromise the strength of the corner?
Or are you compensating by adding a corner block on the inside?
I'm not the builder, Oskar, but I can tell you that strength of the corner is dictated by the material itself in this case. The glue joint, the strongest part of a butt joint, remains fully intact from what I see. I'd have no concerns doing what's illustrated if the joint itself was sound. If the structure didn't have bracing elsewhere, and you were to do apply diagonal pressure corner to corner, I can see the strength being compromised by the reduced thickness at the corner, but this is a speaker box after all and there are shelf braces resisting that sheer force. One could add corner blocks but considering all else it would seem superfluous.
The notion that this would affect the performance of the speaker somehow just doesn't hold water, IMHO. Here's a cross-section graphic to help illustrate my point.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=238099)
EDIT: I realized my illustration was wrong. I corrected it to show approximately 5/8" across the face of chamfer and 5/8 radius. Mo betta now.
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Since you are removing some wood with the chamfer doesn't that compromise the strength of the corner?
Or are you compensating by adding a corner block on the inside?
The X-MTM cabinet is already well braced internally as can be seen in this picture by the builder. This is typical of Danny’s designs. There is little need to worry about corner strength from the little loss of material as Peter has shown above and given all the internal bracing that exists in this design.
I have the sides and tops and bottoms glued on now, here they are standing next to one of my TriTrix speakers.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=228816)
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Thank you for answering the corner question.
I’ve decided to make up 1/8 MDF panels and paint them black to cover the tops of the cabinets, and doing something similar on the bottom to keep some consistency.
I’ve taken inspiration from a pair of Jamo speakers I saw on the internet.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=238556)
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I’ll be posting more progress photos in a week or so, I’m currently sanding the veneer getting it ready for varnish.
I’ll be using a oil based polyurethane varnish on the veneer.
Hopefully I’ll be looking at spraying the varnish very soon. 👍
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I finally got the sanding done and put the first coat of oil based polyurethane on.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=239651)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=239652)
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Very nice!
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I can’t wait to give them a run, this week I should start to fit them out
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That veneer is so nice, you'll be pleased with them for a very long time.
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Varnishing is done now and it’s time to fit out the cabinets
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=239731)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=239732)
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That veneer is so nice, you'll be pleased with them for a very long time.
Thanks 👍
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That veneer is so nice, you'll be pleased with them for a very long time.
Agreed, you did a nice job highlighting the veneer as well. I've owned a pair of these for a couple years now and I'm very pleased with them. You probably already know this, but don't be surprised when they don't sound quite right at first. Mine took 24 hours of burn-in before they started coming into their own, then they kept getting better and better.
Enjoy!
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Agreed, you did a nice job highlighting the veneer as well. I've owned a pair of these for a couple years now and I'm very pleased with them. You probably already know this, but don't be surprised when they don't sound quite right at first. Mine took 24 hours of burn-in before they started coming into their own, then they kept getting better and better.
Enjoy!
Very true. Danny's speakers take time to burn in. They might go through a period of sounding bass-light, then another period of sounding bass-heavy, then another period of sounding harsh in the highs. It's all part of the burn in process and will smooth out over time.
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👍
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=239798)
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The black on top sets off the black of the drivers nicely.
Looking good!
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Thanks I’m going to make outriggers with speaker spikes in black as well to keep the theme going.
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That will be really nice, the black accents really tie the drivers into the design. You should probably expect a bit of a love-hate relationship until the capacitors form and the drivers break in; there were days when I totally hated our X-SLS towers before they began to sing their sweet song. And sweet it is, so good I’ve almost forgotten those days when I wanted to burn them.
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That will be really nice, the black accents really tie the drivers into the design. You should probably expect a bit of a love-hate relationship until the capacitors form and the drivers break in; there were days when I totally hated our X-SLS towers before they began to sing their sweet song. And sweet it is, so good I’ve almost forgotten those days when I wanted to burn them.
One trick I use to burn in new speakers is to put them face to face and invert phase on one speaker (but not the other). This will let you play pink noise through them at loud volumes and it will mostly just cancel out. The other thing I do it throw a big blanket over them, that quiets them down even more. That first 100 hours is pretty brutal if you don't do something like this.
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The heads up about the pre-burn-in performance is worth while just so there is no disappointment.
But FWIW - I just played my X-MTMs and enjoyed them from the get-go. My guess is they have gotten better, but, honestly, not sure I would know the difference given how much better they are from I came from and never having had speakers at this level. Maybe, because they get use for TV and generally not played overly loud, there wasn’t much to hear in the way of burn-in difference. They amazed me the day I first plugged them in and, now, a little over a year old they still amaze me.
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Looks awesome.
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Thanks for the comments guys, I need to finish them off with some nice outriggers and spikes
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=239885)
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I've used outriggers from Soundocity a few times. https://soundocity.com/product-category/outriggers/
Here's some on my N3 towers
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=239866)
They have a number of different options.
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I just completed a new HiFi stand and I thought I’d post a photo of my setup, I still want to finish the bottoms of the X MTM Encore’s
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=255491)