Subs for Martin-Logan CLS IIa's

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davidwat

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Subs for Martin-Logan CLS IIa's
« on: 12 Jul 2014, 02:09 am »
Before I sell these bassless wonders, does GR research have ideas about well controlled subs for relatively extended bass? I suspect I need to start at 100hz or so I don't need great spl's  or massive deep bass, but they need to be fast to match with these electrostatics. I suspect I'll need two.
Thanks,

David - Dallas

Danny Richie

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Re: Subs for Martin-Logan CLS IIa's
« Reply #1 on: 12 Jul 2014, 01:57 pm »
We have the fastest and most controlled subs money can buy, and they will match perfectly with the Martin-Logans.

I have 12' and 8" woofers designed specifically for open baffle applications and have servo control. And the 12's will play flat to 20Hz and -3db down in the teens.

And if you are in Dallas, then you are 2 hours away from a demo of them.

davidwat

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Re: Subs for Martin-Logan CLS IIa's
« Reply #2 on: 9 Jun 2018, 10:44 pm »
Danny, do you still make an 8" OB servo sub kit? Do you have specs to compare to 12 "?

mlundy57

Re: Subs for Martin-Logan CLS IIa's
« Reply #3 on: 10 Jun 2018, 12:03 am »
To match those Martin Logans I'd recommend H-Frames with three SW-12-16FR drivers per side.  If your preamp has balanced outputs (or you think you might get one that does, use the A370-XLR2 amps otherwise you can use either the A370PEQ or A370PEQ3. Absolutely, hands down the best bass you will find to match your Martin Logans.

Even if the 8" OB drivers (SW-08-16FR) are available, go with the 12's. You won't regret it.

Mike

Tyson

Re: Subs for Martin-Logan CLS IIa's
« Reply #4 on: 10 Jun 2018, 12:38 am »
The GR Research subs do a better job with electrostic speakers than the Martin Logan subs (or bass drivers) :lol:

rockdrummer

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Re: Subs for Martin-Logan CLS IIa's
« Reply #5 on: 11 Jun 2018, 03:43 pm »
You came to the right place!
Ben

Wallacefl

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Re: Subs for Martin-Logan CLS IIa's
« Reply #6 on: 11 Jun 2018, 10:18 pm »
Just a suggestion from a CLSZ2 owner...let the Logan’s run full range and bring the sub in at 40-45 hz.

davidwat

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Re: Subs for Martin-Logan CLS IIa's
« Reply #7 on: 19 Jul 2018, 04:51 am »
Can a 2x8, 3x8 ( ?), or 2x12 w-frame  setup be placed on its side to serve as a stand for the M-L CLS2 without compromising sound?
Davd -Dallas

Edited addition.  The cls2a's measure width 28in x depth 14.5 in at the base.
« Last Edit: 19 Jul 2018, 01:19 pm by davidwat »

Danny Richie

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Re: Subs for Martin-Logan CLS IIa's
« Reply #8 on: 19 Jul 2018, 01:47 pm »
Can a 2x8, 3x8 ( ?), or 2x12 w-frame  setup be placed on its side to serve as a stand for the M-L CLS2 without compromising sound?
Davd -Dallas

Edited addition.  The cls2a's measure width 28in x depth 14.5 in at the base.

Sure, you can do that. A couple of the 12's will be good.

Captainhemo

Re: Subs for Martin-Logan CLS IIa's
« Reply #9 on: 19 Jul 2018, 07:36 pm »
Can a 2x8, 3x8 ( ?), or 2x12 w-frame  setup be placed on its side to serve as a stand for the M-L CLS2 without compromising sound?
Davd -Dallas

Edited addition.  The cls2a's measure width 28in x depth 14.5 in at the base.

Our flat packs  are  30"x19"x17d with base  and top.   Without base & top, you're at  27x16x14  so, if you flipped it on it's side, you  have a  27 x14" flat surface between the  "end plates"  .
Here's  a couple pics of  a customers  setup





If you were to cut off the "flipped uppper edge" of each top / base, and didn't mind dealing with the seams,  you'd end up witha  30" x 14"  surface for the speakers to sit on.

If you're building these yourself,  I think you'd be ok adding  .5"  to both the front/rear to  make it  15" .

jay

twitch54

Re: Subs for Martin-Logan CLS IIa's
« Reply #10 on: 19 Jul 2018, 08:59 pm »
Martin Logan 'Balanced Force' would work nicely, all depends on your budget

Tyson

Re: Subs for Martin-Logan CLS IIa's
« Reply #11 on: 19 Jul 2018, 09:02 pm »
Open baffle electrostatics deserve open baffle bass. 

davidwat

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Re: Subs for Martin-Logan CLS IIa's
« Reply #12 on: 19 Jul 2018, 09:29 pm »
Thanks, guys.
Do I need to worry about frame vibration/resonance or just pick materials and thickness that will be strong enough to support the drivers and the CLS2a's on top of them?

Will a simple H with a top be enough?
Do I need to stew about coupling to my slightly jouncy hardwood floor?

David - Dallas

Captainhemo

Re: Subs for Martin-Logan CLS IIa's
« Reply #13 on: 19 Jul 2018, 10:11 pm »
yeah, material is important, the 12"  servo subs will  load even an open baffle  cabinet  quite signifigantly.  We use  1.5"   MDF for the  side panels, you could laminate  2 .75"  sheets  to achieve this   if you  can't  source  1.5"  ( I kind of  doubt it).  We  also use  1"   baffles/braces ( I like to build them  like brick you  know what's !)  although, .75"   will  do.  Our  non-modular subs  also use  1.5" tops/bases while the   modular design use  1.25"  side panels, tops  and bases , 1" baffles,  and  .625"  module uppper/lower  plates which bolt to the next module l .625"  bottom plate.

The  material used in  our  modular design is  Medex which is slightly  denser than  reg MDF so we felt we'd  get  away with the  1.25   in lieu of 1.5"  ( can't  get the  1.5" in Medex).

Even at that,  it's  still  recommended to   line the  cabinets with  no-rez

jay

twitch54

Re: Subs for Martin-Logan CLS IIa's
« Reply #14 on: 20 Jul 2018, 12:44 am »
Open baffle electrostatics deserve open baffle bass.

??? explain please ......

twitch54

Re: Subs for Martin-Logan CLS IIa's
« Reply #15 on: 20 Jul 2018, 12:47 am »
Thanks, guys.
Do I need to worry about frame vibration/resonance or just pick materials and thickness that will be strong enough to support the drivers and the CLS2a's on top of them?

Will a simple H with a top be enough?
Do I need to stew about coupling to my slightly jouncy hardwood floor?

David - Dallas

What makes you think subs located beneath your CLS's is the best location for your room ? Have thought about better 'anchoring / bracing' of the CLS's themselves ?

davidwat

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Re: Subs for Martin-Logan CLS IIa's
« Reply #16 on: 20 Jul 2018, 12:56 am »
The m-L's beam a bit, and many suggest they sound better or provide room sound better if elevated a foot or so. They are already big and I would like to not increase the speaker footprint in my room if possible.

davidwat

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Re: Subs for Martin-Logan CLS IIa's
« Reply #17 on: 23 Jul 2018, 02:01 am »
What are the acoustic implications of an H- baffle tilted at a 45 deg angle and placed sideways on the floor? Making the baffle the hypotenuse of an equilateral triangle would shave  3-4 inches off the vertical dimensions. Would carpet alter the sound?

thanks,

David - Dallas

ZENTISH

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Re: Subs for Martin-Logan CLS IIa's
« Reply #18 on: 23 Jul 2018, 02:29 pm »
Hi David, You should look up and research TBI subs. There is one for sale in the trading post today [I don't know the seller] but the price is good.
Have fun, Tish

mlundy57

Re: Subs for Martin-Logan CLS IIa's
« Reply #19 on: 23 Jul 2018, 03:03 pm »
What are the acoustic implications of an H- baffle tilted at a 45 deg angle and placed sideways on the floor? Making the baffle the hypotenuse of an equilateral triangle would shave  3-4 inches off the vertical dimensions. Would carpet alter the sound?

thanks,

David - Dallas

That sounsd like a W frame instead of an H frame.