AudioCircle
Other Stuff => Archived Manufacturer Circles => Vinnie Rossi => Topic started by: rlabarre on 22 Sep 2014, 07:32 pm
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Vinnie, just saw the teaser on your website! Changing the brand name and logo? Whatever, ooh-la-la! Very, very attractive artwork there! And, please, give us more of a hint!
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Ditto!!!
I haven't had much time recently due to a new puppy, but every time I sit down and listen to my Sig 16 and Bellina, I appreciate them more and more, especially with the Amperex PQs on board. I haven't even come close to fully breaking in any of this stuff, so I'm sure even better sound is in store.
Mike
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Hi Guys,
Just give me a few more days! :shh:
Vinnie
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… the logo is first class! I'm curious, too.
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Wow, Vinnie, not sure what's around the corner for you and RWA, but I'm certain it will be exciting and innovative. All the best! :thumb:
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I'm in countdown mode, I'll admit it!
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All,
If any of you are going to be at the NY Audio Show this Friday, Sat., Sun. - you'll want to stop in my room to get a sneak-peek ("soft launch")
of Vinnie Rossi LIO.
I am getting close to launching the new website, "spilling all the beans," and gearing up for the official launch at RMAF! At RMAF, I'll be at the CanJam section this year. But LIO is equally suited for home audio as it is for headphone listening.
LIO is going to be a true game-changing product in a number of ways! I know this is all a tease, but I'm getting very close to posting a lot more information, so thanks for all your patience.
Vinnie
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Look forward to hearing the details. See you tomorrow.
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Great. See you at the show. Paul
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http://www.6moons.com/news/news.html (http://www.6moons.com/news/news.html)
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Great. See you at the show. Paul
I was in the Red Wine room today, and Vinnie gave me the lowdown on Lio. Can't say anything yet, other than I think it's revolutionary.
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Just got the word 'go' from Vinnie to turn on our industry features which tells (mostly) all :P
And, John Darko at DigitalAudioReview.net has an actual show sighting of Vinnie and his first prototype at the NYC show.
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This is a great idea. Not exactly revolutionary, but modular hi-end audio source is something needed on the market. Looks like Vinnie has thought of pretty much everything an audiophile could want, and at reasonable price points. Can't wait to see the details and hear some of the reactions to the first models.
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Hi Guys,
Just give me a few more days! :shh:
Vinnie
Will you still be offering "mods/options", like balanced
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This is a great idea. Not exactly revolutionary, but modular hi-end audio source is something needed on the market. Looks like Vinnie has thought of pretty much everything an audiophile could want, and at reasonable price points. Can't wait to see the details and hear some of the reactions to the first models.
Now that the cat's out of the bag, the two ultra-capacitor banks replacing either batteries or AC as the power supply in a sophisticated component is what I consider revolutionary. Yesterday's short listening session showed good promise with this new technology. I'll be back in his room today and get a longer listening session.
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Just added a preview to our site with a few more tidbits from Vinnie plus a few more renderings...
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Any chance of ultracapacitor upgrades to existing models ?
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Now that the cat's out of the bag, the two ultra-capacitor banks replacing either batteries or AC as the power supply in a sophisticated component is what I consider revolutionary. Yesterday's short listening session showed good promise with this new technology. I'll be back in his room today and get a longer listening session.
Great! Looking forward to your impressions.
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Here's hoping there is an ultracapacitor version of the Black lightning, or that a DC output module is one of the offerings for this very very cool offering. Would love to get some of that ultracapacitor juice to my DSPeaker Dual Core 2.0.
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Here's hoping there is an ultracapacitor version of the Black lightning,
I'm also interested in the answer to this. I know I might sound like I'm making a big thing out of nothing, but dealing with the batteries is something that has really kept me from trying out various DC-only gear. A high quality DC power option without batteries could get me in the game on a few pieces of gear I can think of off the top of my head. :thumb:
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I'm also interested in the answer to this. I know I might sound like I'm making a big thing out of nothing, but dealing with the batteries is something that has really kept me from trying out various DC-only gear. A high quality DC power option without batteries could get me in the game on a few pieces of gear I can think of off the top of my head. :thumb:
My feelings exactly and this platform is coming at just the right time. Very cool stuff :thumb:
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Hi,
I use the LFP Isabella version and the unit can work on ac or dc and there is no problem. Batteries last for 8 hours and then you can use it on ac if you wish. The ac implementation is very good. I used to have an N.E.W. dc 66 battery powered amplifier and what a pain that was as the implementation and power requirements were huge.
Anyway, it will be interesting to see what Vinnie comes up with. I just received my new iMod from him and I'm very happy with it.
Cheers Rod
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Is Redwine no longer selling direct, your web site no longer has purchase link.
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I went back to the Red Wine room on Saturday and yesterday, and did a bit more listening. The system consisted of the LIO, Vinnie's modded Sony HAP-Z1ES, and Harbeth (I think SHL5) and Vinnie's own (forgot to ask the brand) speakers. I didn't find out about the cabling either. Vinnie can chime in if I incorrectly listed the pieces and add anything I missed. Both PCM and DSD hi-res files stored in the Sony were played during the times I was there. Volume was up compared to the Friday visit. With this system, the music played was engaging due to the overall smooth and natural sound, without any stridency or hardness in the highs. The presentation was clean and dynamic, while the noise floor seemed as quiet as his battery-powered products. The sound reminded me of analog instead of digital. Well done!
Paul Mah
p.s. Vinnie - I'm embarrass to ask but I'll do it anyway, what is the name and song of the DSD male vocals you played for me? I forgot to write it down in my old age. :oops:
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Good to hear about the dynamics. My first concern with off the grid products. Tho I hadn't heard Vinnie's more recent batteries which IIRC also had solid dynamics from reports.
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All,
Thanks to everyone who was able to attend the "sneak-peek" showing of Vinnie Rossi LIO at the NY Audio Show!
I've been working hard trying to catch up since I've been away. There is a lot going on as you can imagine! 8)
Here are some links to LIO coverage at NY, and previews by 6moons:
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2014/09/vinnie-rossi-teases-modular-rechargeable-lio-at-nyas-14/
http://theaudiotraveler.com/2014/09/28/new-york-2014-vinnie-rossis-new-lio/
http://6moons.com/industryfeatures/vinnierossi/1.html
http://6moons.com/audioreviews2/vinnierossi/1.html
We will have the new Vinnie Rossi website live this week: www.vinnierossi.com
(for now, it redirects to Red Wine Audio)
Is Redwine no longer selling direct, your web site no longer has purchase link.
I temporarily disabled the purchase links on the RWA products until we "officially" launch Vinnie Rossi LIO at
RMAF next week. Then they will be reactivated.
Here's hoping there is an ultracapacitor version of the Black lightning, or that a DC output module is one of the offerings for this very very cool offering. Would love to get some of that ultracapacitor juice to my DSPeaker Dual Core 2.0.
All of this is in the works. When the Vinnie Rossi website launches, you'll see a dedicated blog and user forum where new ideas like this will be
discussed. You'll want to sign up for our newsletter as well, so you get (approx.) monthly updates on many things. I do NOT sell out email lists to anyone, and you can unsubscribe at anytime. But it's a great way to update my customers on what is new and coming down the road, and I'll only be using this when there are ripe n' juicy things to share. :wink:
p.s. Vinnie - I'm embarrass to ask but I'll do it anyway, what is the name and song of the DSD male vocals you played for me? I forgot to write it down in my old age.
Hi Paul - thanks for visiting our room! That track I played for you was by Elephant Revival. Track name - "Quill Pen Feather"
It was from their DSD download (Acoustic Sounds) album - "It's Alive." The whole album is good, so check it out!
I'll be posting more soon - but I have to catch up on a lot of work and get ready for RMAF new week, where I'll have the new LIO PCM/DSD dac module ready, as well as the Tubestage. If you'll be at RMAF, please stop by and say hello - I'll be in the CanJam room!
Thanks, everyone!
Vinnie
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Look forward to seeing you at RMAF. The LIO is on my list in BIG CAPITAL LETTERS.
And great to hear that DC out will be an option at some point. Wow. What a product this looks to be.
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http://www.stereophile.com/content/ny-audio-show-2014-saturday-evening (http://www.stereophile.com/content/ny-audio-show-2014-saturday-evening)
"In the Fidelis room, Red Wine Audio's Vinnie Rossi introduced a new modular integrated amplifier to be sold under his own name. The LIO can have a passive, auto-transformer or an active, tube-based preamp stage/volume control and an optional DAC board. Unusually, rather than batteries, the amplifier uses 18 Ultracapacitors in two banks of nine, to provide power. The caps were developed for automotive use (in regenerative braking systems) and can be charged much faster than batteries. The LIO switches automatically and seamlessly between one bank and the other when the voltage drops below a predetermined level. Demmed with the latest version of Harbeth's Super HL5 Plus speakers ($6895/pair in cherry), which have upgraded crossovers, the Vinnie Rossi amplifier sounded very promising."
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=106148)
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That unit has autoformers. :thumb:
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That unit has autoformers. :thumb:
Yes, Slagle's.
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Hi Paul - thanks for visiting our room! That track I played for you was by Elephant Revival. Track name - "Quill Pen Feather"
It was from their DSD download (Acoustic Sounds) album - "It's Alive." The whole album is good, so check it out!
Vinnie
Thanks Vinnie. I'm on this like veal marsala!
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Cool new gear buddy! :thumb:
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Vinnie, this looks like a very interesting unit! Congrats!
Do you have words somewhere that explain in greater detail the benefits of the ultra-capacitors relative to a battery solution, especially a battery system fronted by something akin to a PI Audio BatteryBUSS?
(Sorry, but it's been too long since I've sufficiently researched the build of your previous battery powered units to know whether they had a similar filter/impedance adjustment component in front of their batteries.)
Thanks!
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Thanks, everyone!
Do you have words somewhere that explain in greater detail the benefits of the ultra-capacitors relative to a battery solution, especially a battery system fronted by something akin to a PI Audio BatteryBUSS?
Hi brj,
Yes, it will be on the vinnierossi.com website that is coming very soon (hopefully today!).
If you still have questions after viewing it, please let me know.
All,
Here is a link to a LIO teaser video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pPigQ_5N_s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pPigQ_5N_s)
More videos will follow after launch. :hyper:
Hope to see many of you at RMAF next week!
Vinnie
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Is LIO an acronym? If so, what does it stand for?
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Is LIO an acronym? If so, what does it stand for?
My two daughters and my wife. :whip:
Vinnie
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So much for line input-output. DOH!
This is way better!
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Nice Vinnie :thumb:
Ritchie
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Vinnie Rossi beta site is live:
http://vinnierossi.com/
8)
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Llooks good Vinnie (LIO & the site ) :thumb: :thumb:
Been reading lots about the Sig 16/57 ove the past little while, looks like I'm back to square 1 iwth LIO now !! Looking forward to it
-jay
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Vinnie-
Congrats on the new venture. The Web site is very nice and user friendly.
A couple of questions:
Are you planning on adding more detail about the individual modules?
When are there going to be any units delivered or sent out for review?
I am interested in hearing a bit of in use reaction before I buy.
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Vinnie,
Looked at the new website this morning. It looks good and works easily. Congratulations on the LIO. If this sounds better than my LFP-V Edition Signature 15 amp that I purchased from you in August, it's got to be pretty amazing. I too look forward to hearing more information on the modules and when you are planning on starting production.
Best of Luck,
Blu99Zoomer
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Vinnie-
Congrats on the new venture. The Web site is very nice and user friendly.
A couple of questions:
Are you planning on adding more detail about the individual modules?
When are there going to be any units delivered or sent out for review?
I am interested in hearing a bit of in use reaction before I buy.
Hi firedog,
Thank you! Yes - more detail will be added. For now, click on the text next to each icon (e.g. "MOSFET amp") and it will open to allow you to
view details and specs.
If you have questions that are not covered, please post or email me. I want to make sure that information is being presented as clearly as possible.
- Actual pics won't be uploaded to the site until we are close to production and have the production level enclosures and modules / boards (which will be red, not green). For now, they are fairly accurate 3D renderings of the LIO.
- We will be entering production sometime next month (I estimate mid-November) and have already lined-up 5 reviews! Review units will be sent out next month as well. More will follow - so we'll be hitting the ground running with reviews and feedback to share.
- We'll be accepting orders in a few weeks and will build/ship in a queue. First-to-order = first-to-ship.
am interested in hearing a bit of in use reaction before I buy.
Vinnie Rossi LIO will only be sold factory-direct (to anywhere in the world), with a 30-day return policy. This is covered in the FAQ section:
http://vinnierossi.com/frequently-asked-questions/
but please note that I will be updating FAQs (adding new ones, clarifying based on feedback, etc.). Please contact me if you have questions not addressed on this page, and thank you!
Congratulations on the LIO. If this sounds better than my LFP-V Edition Signature 15 amp that I purchased from you in August, it's got to be pretty amazing. I too look forward to hearing more information on the modules and when you are planning on starting production.
Thanks, Blu99Zoomer!
LIO is in a higher league in many ways, including sonically. That was one of the main requirements. The others were things like:
- Modularity / easy to add features and upgrade at any time.
- Better-than-battery (even better sonically, as well as in terms of lifespan and ease of use. Our PURE-DC-4EVER will essentially last a lifetime).
- Easy-to-use, with lots of features at your fingertips (via remote handset or free App download coming from iOS and Android phones/tablets).
- Highest value (while LIO is more costly to manufacture than RWA products, LIO will offer a lot more value by selling factory-direct in the USA (no dealer network) and direct all over the world (no distribution network). So the LIO prices, depending on configuration, are not *that* much higher than our RWA offerings. With dealers/distributors, they would have to be close to 2x higher and I really wanted to avoid that.
- Cleanest signal paths, highest quality parts, very user-friendly
- Carefully built and tested in the USA, and backed by 10-year warranty.
Thanks for all your interest and enthusiasm! We're just getting started, and the official product launch will be at RMAF next week.
If you are interested, I HIGHLY RECOMMEND you go to: www.vinnierossi.com and join our mailing list (you'll see links to do this on the red bar at the bottom of each page). Why?
- You'll be kept in the loop and updated at least once per month
- If you are busy and don't have time to join our forum and search around online, you'll get the latest Vinnie Rossi blogs posts, links
to reviews, discussions about what is in the works, and videos.
- You have my promise that I will never give out or sell out my email contact list to anyone. And I'm not looking to collect any information other than your email address if you are interested in getting the latest information.
- You can always unsubscribe at any time - if you must! :roll:
More now than ever, I plan to make this new brand / product launch very interactive. The new site has a blog, a forum (I still need to get that all set up), links to social media and a youtube video channel, newsletter sign-up, and more.
I have A LOT of ideas in the works, lots of shows planned for 2015, and I have never before felt so energized and free to embrace what I
believe will be a fresh, game-changing way to innovate, interact, and enjoy in this hobby with everyone - For BOTH home audio and personal audio (headphone) listening, as LIO will be equally applicable to 2-channel home audio as it will be for headphone systems. I see the merging and 'cross-pollination' of the two at shows and with customers as being a really good thing!
Vinnie
(http://vinnierossi.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/vinnie_rossie_lio_1-580x366.png)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=106305)
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I have reviewed all the pages on your web site. Sounds, (pun intended), like some really great products, like you nailed it. Today's high end stereo world is changing. Neil Young isn't having much look with Pono because there's nothing new under the hood, but I believe that you are on track with something truly revolutionary in the world of sound. Direct sales and ultra capacitors, swappable components, and what else? Musk figured this out for Tesla, and so has Vinnie. I may not only upgrade my present system to RE, but might even buy a LIO, and since Vinnie is so hot on Harbeth, why not, heck we only go around once, right? So upgrading and playing, if for no other reason, IT'S REALLY COOL!
One thing I should add, as an architect and designer of retail showrooms, I am watching as the world of consumer goods retailers do exactly what Vinnie is intending with the social media and customer outreach. Retailers who had spent millions of dollars in the past are now looking towards technology to bolster sales, consumers are walking around with PDA's which are in effect a more cost effective means by which to reach their customers for direct feedback and tailor their products to exactly what each customer wants. More like mass individual marketing if you will. If you couple that with revolutionary product design, well, just think Tesla, Apple, etc... Way to go Vinnie...
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Hi Catmansound,
Thank you - I really appreciate your feedback.
And wow - being mentioned in there with Telsa and Apple all in one post! Please post more often! 8) :thumb:
[As an aside (since you brought up Tesla), once they find a way to increase the energy density of ultracapacitors, I predict
they will eventually become widely used in electric vehicles. They can be charged very rapidly. So instead of taking many hours
to charge your car, it could be potentially be done just a quickly as fueling with gas. But that's another topic - don't mean to
derail this thread or anything. :duh:]
Vinnie
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Hmmmmm...The Rossi LIO Ultra Coupe...Italian inspired supercar design complete with world class stereo and wine fridge!
I want one.
:o 8)
(Of course, no drinking and driving!)
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"Hmmmmm...The Rossi LIO Ultra Coupe...Italian inspired supercar design complete with world class stereo and wine fridge!"
Made in America, just north of Wosta...Better have heated seats along with that great stereo and fast charge times. :lol:
Blu99Zoomer
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A Red Coupe with black accent and white trim, to match the LIO look of course! :wink:
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A Red Coupe with black accent and white trim, to match the LIO look of course! :wink:
Cool - and that reminds me:
Vinnie Rossi LIO has been designed to easily change its appearance as well. So if we later offer a custom front panel
color, custom top plate, custom knobs, etc. - you can order them and install to customize the look of your LIO. 8)
For now, we'll be launching with Black and Silver options for everything because those are clearly the most popular - until
we change the trends! :wink: I want some color!
Vinnie
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Looking forward to meeting you and hearing this at RMAF!! And can't wait for the DC out details...
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Hi, Vinnie. Congrats on the the terribly exciting new technology! Wow, that is some amazing stuff. See you in a couple of days. I can't wait to hear it. One questiion up front, though:Will you be offering the wooden faceplates or otherwise incorporating wood into the chassis in the future? The WAF of the wooden faceplates in the Red Wine line was off the charts.
--Zach
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See you guys at RMAF!
One questiion up front, though:Will you be offering the wooden faceplates or otherwise incorporating wood into the chassis in the future? The WAF of the wooden faceplates in the Red Wine line was off the charts.
It is all very possible and something that we'll be looking into next year (as well as other colors and options, such as a clear/tinted custom top plate :drool:). But first things first - I need to get into full production next month! :hyper:
And we'll be opening the site to pre-orders within 1 week!
Vinnie
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Ooooh, love the clear top plate idea. See ya tomorrow!
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Hi Vinnie , The new line looks great. Will you still continue to sell the RedWineAudio Products also?
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Vinnie, this thing looks unbelievable. I'm a sucker for modular design, and feel like RWA was already ahead of the curve in this respect - not user replaceable or as customizable, but it seems like a lot of the customization options and special requests you filled for people were due to an inherent sense of modularity in the design. But the modularity in LIO... it's honestly the sort of thing I've long dreamt about. When I read that you were using something 'better than batteries,' I was skeptical, and foolishly assumed it was just advanced power filtering. But ultracapacitors? I never should have doubted!
I do have a few questions, which I'm sure will be addressed on the website soon enough, but... I'm impatient!
Do you have physical specs? Or at least, a ballpark comparison on the size vs. Sig 16?
Will the RWA trade-in program apply to purchase of a LIO?
Any chance of a lower power amp module in the future? I know, I know, nobody wants that... But I do kind of like the additional layer of protection I get from having an amp that's rated below my speakers...
Are the prices for modules bought after the fact going to be in line with modules purchased with the amp?
I was just about to ask of the possibility of getting a DAC crammed into my Sig 16... Assuming I can find a way to fit it on my desk, I will be all over this thing as soon as I can be! Keep up the good work, Vinnie!
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Vinnie, this thing looks unbelievable. I'm a sucker for modular design, and feel like RWA was already ahead of the curve in this respect - not user replaceable or as customizable, but it seems like a lot of the customization options and special requests you filled for people were due to an inherent sense of modularity in the design. But the modularity in LIO... it's honestly the sort of thing I've long dreamt about. When I read that you were using something 'better than batteries,' I was skeptical, and foolishly assumed it was just advanced power filtering. But ultracapacitors? I never should have doubted!
I do have a few questions, which I'm sure will be addressed on the website soon enough, but... I'm impatient!
Do you have physical specs? Or at least, a ballpark comparison on the size vs. Sig 16?
Will the RWA trade-in program apply to purchase of a LIO?
Any chance of a lower power amp module in the future? I know, I know, nobody wants that... But I do kind of like the additional layer of protection I get from having an amp that's rated below my speakers...
Are the prices for modules bought after the fact going to be in line with modules purchased with the amp?
I was just about to ask of the possibility of getting a DAC crammed into my Sig 16... Assuming I can find a way to fit it on my desk, I will be all over this thing as soon as I can be! Keep up the good work, Vinnie!
Hi brh,
Thanks for all your interest and feedback! :notworthy:
Do you have physical specs? Or at least, a ballpark comparison on the size vs. Sig 16?
Approx. 17.5" W x 13.5" D (includes the added depth from knobs and jacks) x 4.5" H (includes added height from feet)
Will the RWA trade-in program apply to purchase of a LIO?
No. The reason is because LIO will only be sold factory-direct (to anywhere in the world), and not via dealers or distributors. So there
is absolutely no added margins that would allow us to take trade-ins with RWA products.
If LIO was sold via distributors and dealers, the price would be at least 2x the factory-direct price.
Any chance of a lower power amp module in the future? I know, I know, nobody wants that... But I do kind of like the additional layer of protection I get from having an amp that's rated below my speakers...
Wow - never got that question before! Yes - I can custom modify the LIO MOSFET Amp module for lower output power if you wish. Just email me and let me know what power rating you are comfortable.
Are the prices for modules bought after the fact going to be in line with modules purchased with the amp?
They will be the same. There is NO discount for buying more modules upfront. No pressure here - try the LIO with the modules that you need, and if you later want to add more, just order the modules and you can easily install them. No need to send your LIO back for more features and upgrades.
Keep up the good work, Vinnie!
Thanks again!
Hi Vinnie , The new line looks great. Will you still continue to sell the RedWineAudio Products also?
Hi Arrowmark,
Welcome to Audiocircle and the RWA forum!
Thank you. Yes, Red Wine Audio will remain a company that will focus on:
- Modification Services
- Continued support for all our customers of RWA products.
Ooooh, love the clear top plate idea. See ya tomorrow!
Nice to meet you at RMAF, Slee ZZ! Thanks for visiting!
Another LIO thread here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=129401.0
Vinnie
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Any chance of a lower power amp module in the future? I know, I know, nobody wants that... But I do kind of like the additional layer of protection I get from having an amp that's rated below my speakers...
Not bashing here, just hoping for some clarification...
Isn't this (less power = more protection for your speakers) a bit of a misonception ? I'd think that with less power it would be much more lilely to push an amp to the point of clipping than it would be with one rated at higher power than your speakers.
I'm not sure how clipping occurs with Mosfet amps but with typical SS amps clipping is usually considered "hard" and can be very damaging to speakers
-jay
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Not bashing here, just hoping for some clarification...
Isn't this (less power = more protection for your speakers) a bit of a misonception ? I'd think that with less power it would be much more lilely to push an amp to the point of clipping than it would be with one rated at higher power than your speakers.
I'm not sure how clipping occurs with Mosfet amps but with typical SS amps clipping is usually considered "hard" and can be very damaging to speakers
-jay
Hi Jay,
Two ways to look at it:
You are correct - with less power you could reach clipping (think square waves - not the best for tweeters).
But I *think* brh is concerned if he ever had a surge of some sort (e.g. your child maxes out the volume or something crazy that causes the amp to unload full power), a lower power amp will output less max power (less likely to blow the speaker).
Vinnie
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Yes, Red Wine Audio will remain a company that will focus on:
- Modification Services
- Continued support for all our customers of RWA products.
So does that mean the existing RWA product line will cease?
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So does that mean the existing RWA product line will cease?
Yes - eventually. I do not yet have an exact date when this will happen.
Please note: All Red Wine Audio components WILL continue to be supported for in and out of warranty servicing.
Vinnie
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Hi Jay,
Two ways to look at it:
You are correct - with less power you could reach clipping (think square waves - not the best for tweeters).
But I *think* brh is concerned if he ever had a surge of some sort (e.g. your child maxes out the volume or something crazy that causes the amp to unload full power), a lower power amp will output less max power (less likely to blow the speaker).
Vinnie
Thanks Vinnie,
I get the clipping aspect, just wasn't sure if I was missing something which I guess I was, hadn't considered the issue of having the amp rolled on to full power by accident, was thinkinging that possibly brh was assuming by having less power he was protecting his speakers in everyday operation.
-jay
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Just a couple of quick questions. I dont think these were covered, but I may have missed it.
Is the tubestage used with the line inputs only? That is, is it utilized when using the phone inputs? Or the Dac input, for that matter?
Can you plug more than one component into the DAC inputs? And if so, how do you switch between the DAC inputs?
Thanks. This is an interesting product.
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Just a couple of quick questions. I dont think these were covered, but I may have missed it.
Is the tubestage used with the line inputs only? That is, is it utilized when using the phone inputs? Or the Dac input, for that matter?
Can you plug more than one component into the DAC inputs? And if so, how do you switch between the DAC inputs?
Thanks. This is an interesting product.
Hi nnck,
Good questions!
>>Is the tubestage used with the line inputs only? That is, is it utilized when using the phone inputs? Or the Dac input, for that matter?
First, switch the word input in your question to OUTPUT, so it reads:
Q: Is the tubestage used with the line OUTPUTS only? That is, is it utilized when using the phone OUTPUTS? Or the Dac OUTPUT, for that matter?
A: It can be used with both, actually! You can order a dac (or phonostage) with tube output stage. It would follow the dac or phono. If you use it as a linestage (when you use it with the stepped attenuator volume control board), it goes AFTER the volume. This would be active preamp.
So you can do this:
DAC > RCA OUTPUTS
DAC > TUBESTAGE > RCA OUTPUTS
DAC > VOLUME > TUBESTAGE > RCA OUTPUTS
Same with phono.
And if you go with a headphone or speaker amp outputs, it looks like this:
DAC > VOLUME > TUBESTAGE > AMP (but there are still fixed and volume controlled RCA output jacks to use). You can turn OFF
the power amp output stage from the front panel (mute), so you can just use it as a headphone amp or preamp.
The mute to the power amp output stage does NOT add any circuity in the signal path. We just shunt the inputs of the MOSFETS to GND,
which mutes the signal going into the MOSFETS - so NO output on the speaker posts. How cool is that!?? 8)
>>Can you plug more than one component into the DAC inputs? And if so, how do you switch between the DAC inputs?
YES - You can plug in 3 digital sources: USB, COAX, TOSLINK (optical).
The front panel of the LIO has a SOURCE knob (the left knob) to select through your sources. You can also do this via the included
remote handset, or even via the bluetooth App for your smart phone / tablet. (Apps still in the works, but hope to have completed end of year. They will be FREE downloads from Apple App Store and Google Play (for Android). Again, how cool is that?!!!! :green:
Hope this helps,
Vinnie
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Q: Is the tubestage used with the line OUTPUTS only? That is, is it utilized when using the phone OUTPUTS? Or the Dac OUTPUT, for that matter?
A: It can be used with both, actually! You can order a dac (or phonostage) with tube output stage. It would follow the dac or phono. If you use it as a linestage (when you use it with the stepped attenuator volume control board), it goes AFTER the volume. This would be active preamp.
So you can do this:
DAC > RCA OUTPUTS
DAC > TUBESTAGE > RCA OUTPUTS
DAC > VOLUME > TUBESTAGE > RCA OUTPUTS
Same with phono.
Vinnie- Thanks for the clarification and the detailed response.
I think I understand all of what your saying, but just to be certain - The tubestage you speak of can only be chosen for a single (1) of those options you mention - is this correct? Either you chose to have the tubestage follow one of the DAC or phono stages (in which case, the tubestage is not utilized when you switch to one of your other sources coming from the linestage), or you simply use it in the linestage AFTER the volume (in which case all sources plugged into the LIO- DAC, phono, and line outputs ALL go through the tubestage).
That was the real intent of my line of questioning anyway. I wanted to know if you use the tubestage with the line outputs, that both the optional DAC and phono outputs would have their signals go through the tubestage as well.
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Not bashing here, just hoping for some clarification...
Isn't this (less power = more protection for your speakers) a bit of a misonception ? I'd think that with less power it would be much more lilely to push an amp to the point of clipping than it would be with one rated at higher power than your speakers.
I'm not sure how clipping occurs with Mosfet amps but with typical SS amps clipping is usually considered "hard" and can be very damaging to speakers
-jay
Thanks for the response/concern... you are correct, but so is Vinnie with regard to my concerns... I feel like I've just had very bad luck with volume controls over the course of my life, and have more recently attempted to keep my amp and speakers fairly well matched as far as power is concerned. I'm not really sure it's wise, which is the likelier means of destruction here... I just know how I've blown speakers in the past!
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Hi brh,
Thanks for all your interest and feedback! :notworthy:
[Answers to all of my questions]
Thanks for the answers, Vinnie! I have more questions - like how do I rearrange my desk to fit this thing on it, and should I sell or hold on to my Sig 16 for posterity - but these are questions only I can answer :lol:
I do have a couple of follow-ups, though. In line with trying to make space, are the feet necessary for thermal management? I see that the top plate of the case doesn't appear to be vented, though the back panels are.
Also - and I absolutely don't mean this to come off as argumentative, I'm just curious (nosy?) - when you say that you're moving to a factory-direct model, weren't the RWA products always available directly from you? Was there just also another distribution layer that affected prices across the board? I try my hardest to only buy from companies that sell direct, which was one thing that drew me to RWA in the first place. Either way, glad you're going this route - nothing about the traditional dealer network strategy has ever really worked well for me.
Also going to just go ahead and second the idea that clear top plates somewhere down the line would be pretty amazing. Alright, back to playing with configurations on the product page... :green:
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Vinnie- Thanks for the clarification and the detailed response.
I think I understand all of what your saying, but just to be certain - The tubestage you speak of can only be chosen for a single (1) of those options you mention - is this correct? Either you chose to have the tubestage follow one of the DAC or phono stages (in which case, the tubestage is not utilized when you switch to one of your other sources coming from the linestage), or you simply use it in the linestage AFTER the volume (in which case all sources plugged into the LIO- DAC, phono, and line outputs ALL go through the tubestage).
That was the real intent of my line of questioning anyway. I wanted to know if you use the tubestage with the line outputs, that both the optional DAC and phono outputs would have their signals go through the tubestage as well.
Hi nnck,
To make it easier (more clear), let me try to explain it this way:
If you order the tubestage, it will be in the signal path no matter if you use the dac, phono, preamp, or headphone, or speaker outputs. The tubestage is used for ALL of them if you order the tubestage.
YES - both the dac and phono output signals will go through the tubestage to the line outputs (if you add the tubestage module).
I do have a couple of follow-ups, though. In line with trying to make space, are the feet necessary for thermal management? I see that the top plate of the case doesn't appear to be vented, though the back panels are.
The feet are not required for thermal management. The stock feet (rubber) will be 5/8" tall and screwed into place via 8-32 screws. You can remove them if you wish. For those who love Stillpoints feet, their Ultra Minis have an 8-32 thread and can be used. [More on that later].
Also - and I absolutely don't mean this to come off as argumentative, I'm just curious (nosy?) - when you say that you're moving to a factory-direct model, weren't the RWA products always available directly from you? Was there just also another distribution layer that affected prices across the board? I try my hardest to only buy from companies that sell direct, which was one thing that drew me to RWA in the first place. Either way, glad you're going this route - nothing about the traditional dealer network strategy has ever really worked well for me.
Red Wine Audio uses a "hybrid model." We have some dealers / distributors, but for those who don't have access them them, we sell direct
with a 30-day refund policy.
Vinnie Rossi will ONLY be selling factory-direct, throughout the world.
Also going to just go ahead and second the idea that clear top plates somewhere down the line would be pretty amazing. Alright, back to playing with configurations on the product page...
Clear top plates will definitely come down the line.
The configurations page and entire website in general will also get updated (improved) with time, but hopefully this is a good start. :wink:
Vinnie
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Vinnie Rossi will ONLY be selling factory-direct, throughout the world.
Vinnie
And it must be known that pre orders will receive free shipping anywhere in the world and the 30 money back is still active. :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
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And it must be known that pre orders will receive free shipping anywhere in the world and the 30 money back is still active. :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
This is correct - and next week we'll be opening it up to pre-orders. If you are on our mailing list, you will be notified first. If not, I highly recommend you sign up:
http://vinnierossi.us2.list-manage.com/subscribe?u=8732927ed821bd32f5f0fca4b&id=031c47d651
Why? Because via our email list, you will be the first to learn about:
- The new things that we'll be working on
- Latest news and reviews
- Watch the newest LIO videos
[NOTE: I will NEVER, EVER sell out your email to anyone. :nono: And you can easily unsubscribe at any time. The mailing list
is the best way for me to reach out to our customers and those who are interested in all the updates on what we are up to. There
are some really exciting things in the works! :shh:]
More soon...
Vinnie
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Thanks again for all the answers, Vinnie — I came up with one more question… I'm not going to order mine with a headphone amp right off the bat, but I know I will eventually. Is there one standard face plate with some kind of filler where the headphone jack would go, or will I be able to specifically order the headphone faceplate in anticipation of picking up that module in the future, or…?
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There has been lots of discussion about the power and existing modules but not as much about possible future modules. When trying to think of possible wants in the future, I thought of a wireless streaming module to keep the computer away from the DAC and maybe a DSP equalizer with possible room correction type software. Anyone else have something they might want to see in a module? Though I'd take the existing modules over these ideas for now.
If another useful module was added for the future and you already maxed out your five slots, I guess you'd have to get another case for the amp?
Speaking of which, is it possible to get an amp only (no volume) version? I am relatively happy with my pre right now but my amp needs an upgrade. Long term when funds appear I'd turn the amp into an integrated with the modules.
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The LIO does have bluetooth capability. Or will at some point.
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maybe a DSP equalizer with possible room correction type software.
Not sure that Vinnie would have the time for DSP at this point, but there are some options out there that the LIO DC output could power, like the DSPeaker Dual Core 2.0 that I want to try hooking up to the LIO. It also has a digital output so you could still take advantage of the LIO DAC if it turns out you prefer it.
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There has been lots of discussion about the power and existing modules but not as much about possible future modules. When trying to think of possible wants in the future, I thought of a wireless streaming module to keep the computer away from the DAC and maybe a DSP equalizer with possible room correction type software. Anyone else have something they might want to see in a module? Though I'd take the existing modules over these ideas for now.
Both things I had thought of as well! Neither are necessarily things I would desire, but an EQ controlled by the app seems like a natural fit, and streaming would be very interesting…
I'd also wondered about different power amps… possibility of other topologies down the line, a higher-powered Class D (again, doesn't really interest me, but an intriguing possibility), some solution for subwoofer output… Fun to speculate!
Speaking of which, is it possible to get an amp only (no volume) version? I am relatively happy with my pre right now but my amp needs an upgrade. Long term when funds appear I'd turn the amp into an integrated with the modules.
This, too, I had wondered about. If there'd be some kind of 'dummy' volume module to allow use as a straight-up power amp. Of course, since the pre stages are passive, maxing it out should get you the same end result, albeit with a price tag for a feature you're not using.
The LIO does have bluetooth capability. Or will at some point.
I've seen no hints or suggestions that this could/would be used for streaming, though… just remote control…
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Not sure that Vinnie would have the time for DSP at this point, but there are some options out there that the LIO DC output could power, like the DSPeaker Dual Core 2.0 that I want to try hooking up to the LIO. It also has a digital output so you could still take advantage of the LIO DAC if it turns out you prefer it.
I would love to see a power output for the Auralic Aries or my Alix Voyage player (12-18vdc, <1A) :thumb:
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I do love the Slageformer based preamp I have now, but another interesting possibility would be Morten's Tortuga Audio self calibrating LDR.
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For the first time in human history, you can now place an order for the LIO. Free shipping, both ways if you return, for pre-orders until Dec. 1.. No business affiliation of any sort here. Go to the site, which has already been linked above.
Vinnie, I'll be in touch. Need to ask a few particulars (like how you think 25w will work with Harbeth 30.1 on orchestral music, I sit near-field or midfield). But I do know the proof is in the listening. So, will tube recommendations remain the same? I'd like to have upgrade tubes on hand for the 30 days. Just seems like the smart thing.
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Here we go!
LIO Pre-order details:
http://vinnierossi.com/early-adopter-promo-details/
And some feedback from RMAF posted on our blog:
http://vinnierossi.com/lio-wows-attendees-press-rmaf-2014/
As for all your questions, let's do it!
Thanks again for all the answers, Vinnie — I came up with one more question… I'm not going to order mine with a headphone amp right off the bat, but I know I will eventually. Is there one standard face plate with some kind of filler where the headphone jack would go, or will I be able to specifically order the headphone faceplate in anticipation of picking up that module in the future, or…?
There is only one face plate (with two different colors options), and they both have the XLR jack for the headphone output (which can be an XLR jack that has a 1/4" jack in it, or a 4-pin XLR balanced output jack). The Headphone Amp (HPA) module has both single-ended and balanced outputs - so you just order with the jack of your choice. You can change it at any time - it is easy!
If you do not need a headphone output module (or don't want it right now), the jack will be in place but it will not connect to anything internally. It will be nagging you to try one! :green:
The LIO does have bluetooth capability. Or will at some point.
It does right now for controls only. So you can do things like:
- PWR ON/OFF
- Volume UP/DOWN
- BALANCE L/R
- MUTE
- PHONOSTAGE LOADING
- See DAC frequency (of the file being played)
- Change dac filter and absolute phase
- Turn ON/OFF display
(most of these you will also be able to do via the remote control handset as well!).
For those who are interested in Bluetooth streaming, I'm pretty sure this will need to be a separate module that is
dedicated just for audio.
Not sure that Vinnie would have the time for DSP at this point, but there are some options out there that the LIO DC output could power, like the DSPeaker Dual Core 2.0 that I want to try hooking up to the LIO. It also has a digital output so you could still take advantage of the LIO DAC if it turns out you prefer it.
No time for DSP at the moment, but won't rule it out. For something like that, I would also consider contacting companies like DSPeaker to see if they'd be willing to work with us on a solution that could plug into the LIO. I will definitely be looking into things like this as well.
some solution for subwoofer output… Fun to speculate!
The LIO does have 3 sets of output jacks (1 set it fixed level, and 2 of them could be volume controlled pre-outs if you order your LIO with volume control). So you can use this to feed a powered subwoofer, or use the LIO as a preamp (even if you have the MOSFET AMP module, there is a power button on the front panel to turn ON/OFF the speaker amp stage). So lots of possibilities!
As for different built-in amplifier modules - yes, good ideas! :hyper:
I would love to see a power output for the Auralic Aries or my Alix Voyage player (12-18vdc, <1A)
I'm looking into an output voltage jack for the LIO now - we'll see...
I am also definitely looking into another product design (separate unit) like a Black Lightning power supply, but using our PURE-DC-4EVR supply that is in the LIO, and it being able to supply multiple, linear-regulated output voltages (and with the ability for someone to adjust them as there requirements change). More on that later!
I do love the Slageformer based preamp I have now, but another interesting possibility would be Morten's Tortuga Audio self calibrating LDR.
For now, the two volume control options are the AVC (Slagelformers), and a resistor stepped attenuator type (RVC). Each gives 63 steps of attenuation + mute, and balance.
Balance control feature does NOT add any additional circuitry in the signal path. It simple offsets one channel on the volume control by a 1, 2, 3... steps compared to the other - based on how you set it via the remote control handset. :idea:
There has been lots of discussion about the power and existing modules but not as much about possible future modules. When trying to think of possible wants in the future, I thought of a wireless streaming module to keep the computer away from the DAC and maybe a DSP equalizer with possible room correction type software. Anyone else have something they might want to see in a module? Though I'd take the existing modules over these ideas for now.
Yes! Very cool and if there is enough interest in the future, I'll be looking into future modules like these as well. I like these ideas and all your feedback, so keep it coming!
If another useful module was added for the future and you already maxed out your five slots, I guess you'd have to get another case for the amp?
Some modules can actually stack on top of each other, so there should be room to grow I believe. :wink:
Speaking of which, is it possible to get an amp only (no volume) version? I am relatively happy with my pre right now but my amp needs an upgrade. Long term when funds appear I'd turn the amp into an integrated with the modules.
Yes! And it can be just the MOSFET AMP module, or the tubestage in front of the MOSFET Amp module. No need to add the volume control if you just want the tube input stage in front, and you can add the volume later if you no longer want to use your preamp.
Vinnie, I'll be in touch. Need to ask a few particulars (like how you think 25w will work with Harbeth 30.1 on orchestral music, I sit near-field or midfield). But I do know the proof is in the listening. So, will tube recommendations remain the same? I'd like to have upgrade tubes on hand for the 30 days. Just seems like the smart thing.
The LIO will give you a clean 35wpc into the 6-ohm Harbeths and does a really good job with them! I've tested LIO with P3ESRs, SHL5plus,
30.1 and 40.1 models. You're in for a treat! :D
----
Keep the great questions coming, everyone! That is what this is all about and I appreciate hearing from you and what you'd be interested in -
so thank you!
Vinnie
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[…]
So, will tube recommendations remain the same? I'd like to have upgrade tubes on hand for the 30 days. Just seems like the smart thing.
Good point… Ordered mine this afternoon, didn't even occur to me I should figure out what tubes to have at the ready… Only 6v on this one, eh? Hmmm…
As for all your questions, let's do it!
[…]
Answers appreciated as always, Vinnie!
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Good point… Ordered mine this afternoon, didn't even occur to me I should figure out what tubes to have at the ready… Only 6v on this one, eh? Hmmm…
Answers appreciated as always, Vinnie!
Hi brh,
Thanks for your pre-order today!
This first LIO Tubestage offering will be 6922 family only, with 6.3V heater. Heater supply is constant current regulated at 330mA.
Stock tubes will probably be JJ E88CC (I've had pretty good experience with them over the years, and they are my favorite sounding of the 'basic' new production tubes).
LIO Tubestage design has 0dB/12dB (like RWA Isabella), but is an improved upon circuit with constant current sourcing and other refinements that make it our best one yet! But I have found that when tube rolling, I am getting the same kind of changes with the tubes that I listed in the "LFP-V Tube Rolling thread" on this forum - so this could help guide some of you on what direction you might want to go with tubes. I suspect that at least 50% of you will be more-than-happy with the stock tubes in this new circuit! :wink:
Vinnie
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Is the AVC always superior to RVC with or without tube stage ?
I'm thinking of going with RVC without tube stage and upgrading to AVC later.
This still gives me option of tube stage later if I change my mind about AVC,
The problem is RVC and tube stage plus matched pair of tubes is getting close to AVC price, hence my original question.
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Hi brh,
Thanks for your pre-order today!
Thank you for taking such a reasonable approach to high-end audio! Honestly, I'm not one for upgrade-itis, and I didn't expect to replace my Sig 16 after a year and a half by any means... But LIO really looks like a game-changer in a lot of ways, it's very exciting!
Stock tubes will probably be JJ E88CC (I've had pretty good experience with them over the years, and they are my favorite sounding of the 'basic' new production tubes).
[...]
But I have found that when tube rolling, I am getting the same kind of changes with the tubes that I listed in the "LFP-V Tube Rolling thread" on this forum - so this could help guide some of you on what direction you might want to go with tubes. I suspect that at least 50% of you will be more-than-happy with the stock tubes in this new circuit! :wink:
The JJs are great tubes considering their availability and price point, but... you have to have a present waiting when a baby is born, right? :lol:
So on that note... in the 'LFP-V Tube Rolling thread,' you said that driver-grade is fine when ordering from Upscale, I assume this still holds true for LIO?
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Is the AVC always superior to RVC with or without tube stage ?
I'm thinking of going with RVC without tube stage and upgrading to AVC later.
This still gives me option of tube stage later if I change my mind about AVC,
The problem is RVC and tube stage plus matched pair of tubes is getting close to AVC price, hence my original question.
Without the tubestage, the AVC is superior to the RVC. RVC is excellent (very precise, very clean layout, much better than any potentiometer), but AVC is even better!
To learn more about what an AVC is and what makes it special, please check out the site of 'the man,' David Slagle, who hand-winds them:
http://www.intactaudio.com/atten_FAQ.html
And 'the man,' John Chapman, whom I have been working with on these:
http://bentaudio.com/index2.html
These guys have developed something really special with their AVC, and I am very fortunate to be able to integrate all of their hard work into a
LIO module option!
With RVC + Tubestage (vs. AVC) I do not find that one is better than the other. As I responded to Srajan of 6moons:
I don't see one as better than the other. They simply have different flavours. For super transparency and neutrality, the AVC is hard to beat. For more meat on the bones of tonal richness, density and a greater sense of space albeit at the expense of some transparency and speed, the RVC plus tube stage are the way to go. Some customers in fact might want to have both and change things up every now and then; or as they change their system (e.g. different modules will work best with different speakers or headphones)."
For those who are not sure, you can buy both and keep the one you prefer, and return the other within 30 days for a full refund.
But LIO really looks like a game-changer in a lot of ways, it's very exciting!
Thank you! I share all your excitement with LIO and plan to offer truly amazing circuits for it down the road. There are so many
possibilities - including some top-secret ones :shh: :wink:
So on that note... in the 'LFP-V Tube Rolling thread,' you said that driver-grade is fine when ordering from Upscale, I assume this still holds true for LIO?
Yes - absolutely! In my experience, no need to spend more than that.
In time, I am going to start up a whole new "LIO tube rolling" thread. And down the road, I'm sure you guys would like to see another LIO Tubestage option using different tubes, right? :green: Like I said, this is going to be a ton of fun! :singing:
Vinnie
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For those who are not sure, you can buy both and keep the one you prefer, and return the other within 30 days for a full refund.
...or buy both and swap for the flavor of the hour, day, month or year. :P
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...or buy both and swap for the flavor of the hour, day, month or year. :P
That's what I'm doing! :thumb:
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...or buy both and swap for the flavor of the hour, day, month or year. :P
Or maybe a LIO+ that can carry both/more modules ?
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Or maybe a LIO+ that can carry both/more modules ?
with a switch?
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Perhaps I missed it, but are the modules user installable? Or would the LIO need to be shipped back? Or does the answer change depending on the specific module?
(In my case, I'm curious about a user-install of the still-on-the-drawing-board DC power-out module that could run a digital streamer, ala a Squeezebox Touch.)
Thanks!
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Perhaps I missed it, but are the modules user installable? Or would the LIO need to be shipped back? Or does the answer change depending on the specific module?
IIRC, the modules are user-installable. Vinnie will of course correct me if I am wrong (wouldn't be the first time).
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Perhaps I missed it, but are the modules user installable? Or would the LIO need to be shipped back? Or does the answer change depending on the specific module?
(In my case, I'm curious about a user-install of the still-on-the-drawing-board DC power-out module that could run a digital streamer, ala a Squeezebox Touch.)
Thanks!
Hi brj,
The modules are user installable. The idea here is that you would NOT need to ever send LIO back for added features or upgrades. We would send the module to YOU, and you get 30 days (return policy) to make sure you are 100% happy with it. If not, send it back (again, no need to send your LIO back).
In the next month or so, I'll be posting videos that show how easy the process is. With thumbscrews, you don't even need a screwdriver. :wink:
There is no need to purchase more modules at the beginning, as you can buy them later and the price per module does not change if you buy now, or later. So you don't need to make those decisions until you are ready. Start out with what you are interested in and what your budget allows for. See how you like the LIO - the sound, the built quality, the level of customer support, etc. Then you can later decide to try adding in more features that you might need, or upgrades that come out later on.
Let's make up some example scenarios
--- You are interested in a LIO configured as an integrated amp. You already have a dac. You might later want to get a turntable. You connect your dac to the LIO via the analog inputs. Whenever you want, you can try the LIO DSD/PCM dac module. You plug it in and compare to what you have. You have 30 days to decide if you want to return it for a full refund, or keep it and put your dac up for sale. Then let's say a few months from then, you start researching turntables and find the one for you. At that point, you can buy the LIO Phonostage module (and perhaps one from another company with a refund policy, so you can compare them over 30 days). Same thing - keep the one that you like better, return the other. Later on, you family grows and you have a newborn. It's harder to play music in the home when the baby is trying to sleep. You get into headphone listening and need a headphone amplifier. You simply add the LIO Headphone Amplifier module and you are ready to go!
The beauty of LIO is how it eliminate components at you populate it, it also eliminates interconnects, the need for any power conditioning / power cables / dedicated mains, and internally, the signal paths between modules are optimized to be short as possible. When you add modules, we don't have to duplicate another enclosure with another user interface, power supply, remote, etc. - so you don't have to pay all the added cost for that. And shipping you the module that you decide to add later is also going to be much easier (smaller package, less weight, much less concern about damage, much lower cost to ship).
Over time when the next generation modules come out, you do NOT have to send LIO back for upgrade if you are interested in trying it. So now you can actually try the upgrade and decide for yourself if it is worth the cost (30-day refund policy). In the past, you had to send in your component to me for upgrade. You had to pack up your component, ship it, insure it, wait a few weeks for it to come back, etc. Not anymore! With LIO - we send you the upgrade and you are not without your music. You install it in minutes - without even a screwdriver needed. And since I don't have to take your component apart to upgrade it - you don't have to pay all the extra labor expense. You just buy the module - done!
Let's say something happens. A module gets damaged (e.g. the amp was accidentally shorted and blew a channel). We send YOU the replacement and you repair it very quickly, and then send back the damaged one. You don't have to send the unit in for repair.
Hopefully, everyone is starting to get the idea! :idea:
Let me wrap this up by saying that these scenarios came easy to me whip up because in the last 10 years of running Red Wine Audio (and I cannot believe it has been 10 years already!!! :o ), these are EXACTLY what I have seen numerous times. And I have to confess that it was not really me who really came up with the idea behind LIO - it was many of YOU. Over the years of posting here on audiocircle, emails, phone calls, talking to you at the audio shows - I have been doing my best to listen and understand how to do things better and better. This is why I am very thankful for all of you - your business, your support and believing in me, your feedback, your enthusiasm! It pushes me to improve and make product that not only sounds better and better, but also delivers better functionality, better build quality, better reliability, and a better overall experience for the listener. And it's been both a lot hard work and a lot of fun along the way. So here's to another 10 years of working with you! :beer:
Thank you,
Vinnie
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All,
Just a quick note on materials finishes:
- Front panel and sides are CNC-machined and finely brushed DuPont Corian (If we used all metal, the range for Bluetooth control would be severely limited).
The "silver" option for Corian is not quite the same silver that you'd see with aluminum. It is more like a silver-ish / whitish / gray, but it sure looks great against the knobs, silk screen, and top plate! But just for clarification, it is not quite as silver looking as the top panel or knobs (if you get them in the silver option).
- The Top panel (which slides open/closed via a groove in the side panels) is brushed aluminum (black, or silver)
- The bottom and rear is black, powder-coated aluminum. Bottom is thick enough and also used for heatsinking many linear voltage regulators.
- Knobs are anodized aluminum (black or silver).
- Feet are black rubber, and screwed on via 8-32 screws. There will also be an option to add StillPoints feet later for those who want to try (30-day money back guarantee on this as well when we offer it).
- I'll take pics of the external power adapter (included) soon. It does accept a standard IEC power cord. There is absolutely no reason to use an audiophile-approved power cable, or any power conditioning with it, as there will be 0% benefit since the LIO runs ALL audio-related circuitry 100% isolated from the grid. 8)
Remote control handset (included) is black anodized aluminum, will have our logo, and has functions for:
- PWR On/Off
- Display mode
- Mute
- Vol Up/Down
- Balance L/R
- Input select
- Phonostage loading
- Dac Phase (0 or 180)
- Dac Filter (soft roll-off, or standard)
Once we get all parts in for production (hoping to start end of November), we'll have a big photoshoot to get lots of pictures of the inside, outside, etc. And more Videos showing how the modules get installed and more info about LIO in general.
- Vinnie
-
Hi Vinnie, Wondering about the dac module. I've read the info. Is this pretty much the same as the previous Pro dac option with the addition of dsd? Any additional details would be helpful.
-
Well, i just pulled the trigger on one of these puppies.
The power supply, from an electrical engineering perspective, is absolutely brilliant :thumb:. Look Ma, NO BATTERIES! And I'm off the grid! WOW, just frick'in WOW! Vinnie, choosing to go with the Slagle's autoformers puts the LIO at the top of the heap as a passive preamp. Everything else, with the various audio component modules, is just icing on the cake.
Looking forward to having this feed my various DHT SET & PP amps.
Cheers!
Rolly
PS: Are there any more details on the DAC module such as the chip that is being used, or if it will support DXD?
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Hi Vinnie, Wondering about the dac module. I've read the info. Is this pretty much the same as the previous Pro dac option with the addition of dsd? Any additional details would be helpful.
Hi christopher3393,
It is an entirely new design unlike anything we've done before. Here are some details:
- Accepts PCM sampling rates from 44.1kHz to 384kHz (16, 24, or 32 bit compatible), and DSD64, DSD128 via USB 2.0 input.
- Accepts up to 24/192k PMC via the SPDIF inputs.
- Dual-Mono design, with independent d/a converter chips per channel (Asahi Kasei AK4399)
- Sample rates are viewable from LIO's front panel display
- 3 digital inputs - selectable via front panel and remote handset
- Asynchronous, integer-mode USB functionality
- Selectable PHASE (normal and inverted) and FILTER (normal, and minimum phase) settings via remote handset (and the LIO app coming soon).
- On-board re-clocking circuitry considerably reduces jitter
- Galvanic isolation used for oscillator and re-clocking circuitry
- Ultra-low noise, linear voltage regulators used for each section
- USB and SPDIF (both 75-ohm BNC coaxial and optical) input jacks.
- Swappable daughter board that contains the d/a converter chips and analog output stage – so you can easily upgrade performance as new technologies become available in the future.
- Output impedance: < 100 ohm
- Output voltage: 2Vrms
The LIO dac has no problem keeping up with our RWA-Z1ES-3 (level 3) modded Sony player - it is that good! :eyebrows:
And for the cost to add it into a LIO - it becomes a total no-brainer. Compare it to any other dac that is many times the cost, and then decide if it is a keeper. :wink:
Hi Rolly,
Welcome - and thank you for your pre-order and comments above! LIO makes for one very fine "passive" preamp when using the AVC module. The cool thing about the AVC module that you ordered is that at the lower volume settings, it steps-down voltage (attenuates), but at the same time steps-up current, so you get really good drive at lower volume levels. And at the higher levels, it steps-up voltage to you get up to 7dB gain (like you would with an active preamp). The balance control is also a great feature (that does not add ANY additional circuitry). You are going to love it!
Thanks again!
Vinnie
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[…] The cool thing about the AVC module that you ordered is that at the lower volume settings, it steps-down voltage (attenuates), but at the same time steps-up current, so you get really good drive at lower volume levels. And at the higher levels, it steps-up voltage to you get up to 7dB gain (like you would with an active preamp). […]
That's very interesting… I've tried to read up on what makes an autoformer special for volume control, and never found as clear of an answer as this. It makes sense now that it's been explained, but I don't think I would've put that all together on my own even with the other explanations I've read… so thanks for that!
-
Hi brh,
To learn more about what an AVC is and what makes it special, please check out the site of 'the man,' David Slagle, who hand-winds them:
http://www.intactaudio.com/atten_FAQ.html
And 'the man,' John Chapman, whom I have been working with on these:
http://bentaudio.com/index2.html
These guys have developed something really special with their AVC, and I am very fortunate to be able to integrate all of their hard work into a
LIO module option!
Vinnie
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Hello Vinnie,
I´m from Germany and i have a question about taxes when i buy the Lio. When i receive the lio i had to pay the taxes. Once paid it is very difficult to get the tax back when i want to send back the Lio.
I know there is a way that Firms pay the taxes and the customer pays the full Price with taxes.
Wich way will you go?
If i buy a Lio in early next year, i want to have a brand new one, and not one used from your 30 Day return policy. How will you handle this ?
Greetings from Germany...
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Hi brh,
To learn more about what an AVC is and what makes it special, please check out the site of 'the man,' David Slagle, who hand-winds them:
http://www.intactaudio.com/atten_FAQ.html (http://www.intactaudio.com/atten_FAQ.html)
And 'the man,' John Chapman, whom I have been working with on these:
http://bentaudio.com/index2.html (http://bentaudio.com/index2.html)
These guys have developed something really special with their AVC, and I am very fortunate to be able to integrate all of their hard work into a
LIO module option!
Vinnie
Can you do a fully balanced unit?
-
I´m from Germany and i have a question about taxes when i buy the Lio. When i receive the lio i had to pay the taxes. Once paid it is very difficult to get the tax back when i want to send back the Lio.
I know there is a way that Firms pay the taxes and the customer pays the full Price with taxes.
Wich way will you go?
Hi Sam73,
Please email me directly regarding this: vinnie@vinnierossi.com
I can help you with this.
If i buy a Lio in early next year, i want to have a brand new one, and not one used from your 30 Day return policy. How will you handle this ?
Unless you order a used / demo unit (not even available at this time), you would only receive a brand new unit. In other words, if/when we receive a return, these will be sold at some level of discount for not being brand new (but they will still be sold with full warranty and refund policy).
All the best,
Vinnie
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Can you do a fully balanced unit?
Hi jtwrace,
Early next year, I will be looking into offering Balanced (XLR) LIO INPUTS and LIO OUTPUTS modules as options for those who
will be interfacing with equipment that has BAL in / outs.
Thanks,
Vinnie
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Hi jtwrace,
Early next year, I will be looking into offering Balanced (XLR) LIO INPUTS and LIO OUTPUTS modules as options for those who
will be interfacing with equipment that has BAL in / outs.
Thanks,
Vinnie
Any chance of the AVC in balanced?
I know 4 Slagleformers take up a lot of space, but that's what I have now.
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Any chance of the AVC in balanced?
I know 4 Slagleformers take up a lot of space, but that's what I have now.
Hi TomS,
No plans for this version - sorry.
Vinnie
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Hi TomS,
No plans for this version - sorry.
Vinnie
Oh, that's what I was going after.
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Oh, that's what I was going after.
Hi jtwrace,
It's not that I don't want to help. I just can't fit two LIO AVC modules (each with two Slagleformers) in the LIO. Every location
in the LIO is designed for a particular module. For example, I cannot put the LIO AVC module in the location of the LIO MOSFET Amp.
- Vinnie
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Hi jtwrace,
It's not that I don't want to help. I just can't fit two LIO AVC modules (each with two Slagleformers) in the LIO. Every location
in the LIO is designed for a particular module. For example, I cannot put the LIO AVC module in the location of the LIO MOSFET Amp.
- Vinnie
Understood. No biggie.
-
Here is a rendering of LIO's remote handset (which is included with every LIO - no matter the configuration):
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=108127)
POWER ON/OFF = Top left button, with the line pointing to a red LED on the remote that lights up when you press any button.
DISP = Display Mode (what you see on the front panel 3 digital display): LEVEL, LOAD, FREQ, VOLTS, DARK
VOLUME UP / DOWN (Up and Down arrows)
BALANCE L/R = The left / right arrows
MUTE = center button
SOURCE (Select input source, such as: Analog 1, 2, and 3; Digital USB, Coax, TOSLINK; Phonostage: MM1, MC2, MC3)
LOAD = If you order the remote cartridge loading (RCL) option for your Phonostage, you can adjust the cartridge loading (255 settings!).
DAC FILTER = Linear Phase, or Minimal Phase digital filter used by the d/a chips
DAC PHASE = Output's phase are 0 degrees, or 180 degrees (inverting).
We are also working on a LIO Remote App for iOS (iPhone, iPad) and Android phones/tablets. The LIO Remote App will be a FREE download from the Apple App store, or Google Play. They should be ready early next year. There is a bluetooth module on the front panel that would talk wirelessly to your phone or tablet for this. More on that later...
Vinnie
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Hi jtwrace,
Early next year, I will be looking into offering Balanced (XLR) LIO INPUTS and LIO OUTPUTS modules as options for those who
will be interfacing with equipment that has BAL in / outs.
Thanks,
Vinnie
This will be an interesting development. If possible, it would be great to see either the Tortuga LDR or AVC module with balanced input, but also at least a single-ended input to offer flexibility.
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This will be an interesting development. If possible, it would be great to see either the Tortuga LDR or AVC module with balanced input, but also at least a single-ended input to offer flexibility.
Hi doctorcilantro,
I'll keep this all in mind for the future - thanks for your feedback!
UPDATE
LIO Phonostage --- After doing back and forth between a new JFET MC input stage design, and a pair of step-up transformers (mounted on the board), I decided to go with the step-up transformers for the MC input. They sound more organic from top to bottom, they offer lower noise, are more dynamic, and just more FUN to listen to at all volume levels. Highly addictive sounding! :wine:
The problem with the MC step-ups is they cost a lot more money! :duh: For everyone who has already pre-ordered a LIO with the LIO Phonostage, you'll be getting the MC step-up transformers on the board (no extra cost). For everyone who pre-orders (Dec 1st is the last day), I will also keep the price the same. After that, the price of the LIO Phonostage module is going to have to increase. But please trust me on this - you'll be so much happier that I'm going with the step-ups instead of the JFETs for the MC input stage. There is 'just enough' room to fit them on the board.
We're still looking at approx. MM gain of 40dB, MC gain of 60dB (+12dB on either if you go with with the LIO Tubestage and set the switch from 0dB to +12dB).
LIO MOSFET Amp --- In order to keep things running cool when driving 4-ohm speakers hard (and with speaker that dip down ever lower in impedance!), we are adding a small, built-in fan into the heatsink. It is super-quiet (spec'd at < than 15dB SPL), and it runs ONLY from the external power adapter feed and NOT from the Ultracapacitor bank in use that feeds the audio circuitry. So it has absolutely no impact on the sound quality because it is 100% electrically isolated from the all audio circuitry, and is also will not be heard inside the unit.
I just feel better knowing that it will be in use to get a little bit of air flowing through the heatsink - as this makes all the difference. Surface area is one thing (and of course I'm limited to how large I can use for a heat sink - unless you want it sticking out the side or up through the top panel!), but air flow is another aspect of cooling that we can improve via the fan. So while you won't hear it - it IS playing an important role at loud volume levels in keeping the speaker amplifier stage running cool all the time, which = longer life and better performance.
I also want to thank everyone who has placed a LIO Pre-Order so far. We're getting closer and closer to production and I can't wait to get one in your hands soon! :hyper:
More to come!
Vinnie
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The problem with the MC step-ups is they cost a lot more money! :duh: For everyone who has already pre-ordered a LIO with the LIO Phonostage, you'll be getting the MC step-up transformers on the board (no extra cost). For everyone who pre-orders (Dec 1st is the last day), I will also keep the price the same. After that, the price of the LIO Phonostage module is going to have to increase. But please trust me on this - you'll be so much happier that I'm going with the step-ups instead of the JFETs for the MC input stage. There is 'just enough' room to fit them on the board.
This is exciting (well, not the price increase part specifically, you know what I mean!)... any idea what the ultimate cost of this module will be, then? Also, if one wants remote cartridge loading, does that have to be ordered with the phonostage, or is it some kind of daughterboard that can be added later?
I just feel better knowing that it will be in use to get a little bit of air flowing through the heatsink - as this makes all the difference. Surface area is one thing (and of course I'm limited to how large I can use for a heat sink - unless you want it sticking out the side or up through the top panel!), but air flow is another aspect of cooling that we can improve via the fan. So while you won't hear it - it IS playing an important role at loud volume levels in keeping the speaker amplifier stage running cool all the time, which = longer life and better performance.
Better safe than sorry - though, I must say, heatsinks sticking up out of the top panel would give LIO a sweet 'street rod' look :lol:
I also want to thank everyone who has placed a LIO Pre-Order so far. We're getting closer and closer to production and I can't wait to get one in your hands soon! :hyper:
Can't wait either!
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This is exciting (well, not the price increase part specifically, you know what I mean!)... any idea what the ultimate cost of this module will be, then? Also, if one wants remote cartridge loading, does that have to be ordered with the phonostage, or is it some kind of daughterboard that can be added later?
Hi brh,
- Not sure yet on what the new cost of the Phonostage module will be after the pre-order period, but it will increase by at least $100.
- If someone wants the remote cartridge loading module later, they can order it later and it's "plug n' play" (just like all the other modules).
Yes, it is a daughterboard that plugs onto the LIO Phonostage module.
HEADFI
I am now a site sponsor on Head-Fi.org, and started a thread about LIO over there as well:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/742354/vinnie-rossi-lio-ultracapacitor-powered-modular-hi-fi-system-is-here
If you are a headfi member, please feel free to post there the next time you are on the site. LIO is equally as revolutionary of a product for headphone listening as it is for home audio listening! 8)
Thank you!
Vinnie
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Hi Vinnie,
I am sure you are correct by placing a fan in the LIO. But it is a wrinkle that, with all that I read about avoiding fans in audio related equipment, that gives me pause in thinking about upgrading from my sweet, silent Signature 15 amp. I guess the size of the fan blades would limit the sound. As you say, it won't be heard in the enclosure. I know I could order one to hear for myself, right? Ordered by 12/1, return for free right? LOL.
Thanks for making great equipment Sir! Keep up the good work.
Blu99Zoomer
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Hi Vinnie,
I am sure you are correct by placing a fan in the LIO. But it is a wrinkle that, with all that I read about avoiding fans in audio related equipment, that gives me pause in thinking about upgrading from my sweet, silent Signature 15 amp. I guess the size of the fan blades would limit the sound. As you say, it won't be heard in the enclosure.
Hi Blu99,
Thanks for posting your concern. Fans could be troublesome with regards to:
1) mechanical noise
2) electrical noise
In the case of the LIO Amp, there will be NO such issues because:
1) The fan I'll be using is very small (1.5" x 1.5"), nearly silent, and not spinning all that fast, as it does not need to. So compared to your Sig 15, you won't hear any difference in that regard (but you definitely will with regards to the sound that comes out of your speakers 8).
2) No electrical noise will be introduced into the system because it is 100% isolated via LIO's Ultracapacitor Power Supply ("PURE-DC-4EVR").
The Ultracapacitor bank that is providing power to the audio circuitry is not connected to this fan. The fan is only powered from the external power adapter (which also feeds the Ultracapitor bank that is charging and NOT connected to the audio circuit).
I know I could order one to hear for myself, right? Ordered by 12/1, return for free right? LOL.
Thanks for making great equipment Sir! Keep up the good work.
Exactly - if you pre-order by 12/1 and decide within 30 days that you want to return it, I refund you for the shipping BOTH ways (no matter where in the world you live). You don't lose a cent.
Vinnie
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Hi,
I can't see apart from cost, why a noiseless pipe system "a la" graphics cards in pc's can't be used, as fan seems low tech solution, in another wise high tech Lio.
-
Hi,
I can't see apart from cost, why a noiseless pipe system "a la" graphics cards in pc's can't be used, as fan seems low tech solution, in another wise high tech Lio.
Hi Henry,
It has nothing to do with cost - it is more of an issue of space. If a heat pipe was used, where would it connect to? Below the amplifier module is the backplane (motherboard), so it is not easy to get to the aluminum bottom panel. The side panel right next to the amp module and is not metal. The top panel (aluminum) is designed to be opened/closed, so I do not want to connect to that.
The simplest (K.I.S.S.) and most effective solution in this case appears to be the fan, and I can't find any drawbacks to using it. There is also no need here for a high tech solution. It is a very low-tech problem (heat) that is easily and simply met with a small, quiet-running fan that will not add audible noise, nor will it have any influence on the power feeding the audio circuitry. And it's so small and cute looking. :green:
Vinnie
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Hi Vinnie,
I have to agree with the K.I.S.S. principle.
My comparison of PC with amplifier was hasty, as not only does my fanless graphics card sit in a box full of other fans, but it takes up two slots so heat pipes can transfer heat outside PC case.
Keep up the good work Vinnie.
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Hi Vinnie,
Another layman question please. How does your LIO DAC play with JRiver 18, 19, and or 20? Perhaps more appropriately, do software engineers include automatic recognition of DAC capabilities and automatic alignment/realignment with upgrades of software? Thanks.
Blu99Zoomer
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Vinnie-
Not sure if this has been covered in detail but I haven't found a good discussion.
Can you go into the benefits of getting the remote loading option for the phono stage? How would one adjust the loading without it?
Do you thnk this option is really geared toward someone who is continuously changing carts? Once someone has dialed in a preference for a particular setup, is there much need to change the loading all that often?
Just looking for more info and perhaps ideas and suggestions about how you envision people using this option.
-
Vinnie-
Just looking for more info and perhaps ideas and suggestions about how you envision people using this option.
Good questions. In the same vein, is there much need for this advanced tuning with a MM cart? I'm also assuming adding the RCL option to the phono stage is as easy as any other upgrade. Correct?
-
Hi Vinnie,
Another layman question please. How does your LIO DAC play with JRiver 18, 19, and or 20? Perhaps more appropriately, do software engineers include automatic recognition of DAC capabilities and automatic alignment/realignment with upgrades of software? Thanks.
Blu99Zoomer
Hi Blu99Zoomer,
LIO DSD/PCM Dac should play fine with all versions of JRiver, but I have not tested them all.
Regarding software auto-recognizing the dac capabilities, this depends on the software. I know Audirvana shows on the front panel info such as the bit rate, sample rate, Integer Mode (if the dac can play it). I'm not sure about auto upgrades, but there should be an option to 'check for updates' and you can check with the company to see what is new with each version.
Can you go into the benefits of getting the remote loading option for the phono stage? How would one adjust the loading without it?
Hi nnck,
With the LIO RCL board (remote cartridge loading), you get 255 different MC cartridge load settings that you can adjust via the LIO remote handset (and upcoming smart phono / tablet App).
This is John Chapman's (Bent Audio's) design that we are scaling into the LIO Phonostage. It is very useful because it lets you fine-tune the sound as you listen to music, and then saving the loading value that sounds best to you.
If you do not go with the LIO RCL module, the LIO Phonostage has DIP switches that give you 16 load settings.
Do you thnk this option is really geared toward someone who is continuously changing carts? Once someone has dialed in a preference for a particular setup, is there much need to change the loading all that often?
It's definitely suited for one who likes to play with different cartridges, or likes to tinker with load settings to fine-tune their sound. It gives you a lot more load settings than other phonostages, and being able to make the adjustments on the fly while you listen is the best way to do it!
Good questions. In the same vein, is there much need for this advanced tuning with a MM cart? I'm also assuming adding the RCL option to the phono stage is as easy as any other upgrade. Correct?
Hi Carter,
Not much need if you are using a standard MM cartridge that wants the typical 47K loading.
Adding the RCL later on is easy - you just plug it down into the LIO Phonostage and the LIO automatically recognizes that it is installed and lets you play! 8)
Vinnie
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Is this the thread to give suggestions for future features or is there another thread? The possibilities seem immense with this approach. Just amazing.
Thanks,
UL
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Is this the thread to give suggestions for future features or is there another thread? The possibilities seem immense with this approach. Just amazing.
Thanks,
UL
Hi UL,
Great idea! :idea:
See: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=130693.0
Looking forward to your posts!
Vinnie
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Hi Vinnie,
Any update on LIO production and when shipping might begin?
Thanks,
Christopher
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Hi Christopher,
I emailed everyone on the pre-order list this AM, but I'll attached the note here so the whole world knows were we stand. :rules: :green:
Dear (LIO Pre-Order Customer's name),
Thank you for your LIO Pre-Order!
I want to take this time to provide you with an update on LIO production and the status of your order:
Slowly but steadily, parts are coming in! There have been some delays with the enclosures as well as with certain parts for the modules, but barring any other unlikely delays, we should have all the parts by the end of this month. Then we will immediately begin populating PCBs, building the LIOs, carefully testing them, and then packing them in our custom-made packaging (including double-wall box) for a safe journey to you.
The LIO Pre-Order campaign was a big success (thanks to you!) and we have many orders to build - following our order queue. Your LIO is scheduled to ship next month. I will check-in with an update early next month to give you a more accurate estimate on when it will ship.
If you have any questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you again for your pre-order, and for all your patience. Finally - wishing you and yours a very happy, healthy and safe holiday season!
Sincerely,
Vinnie
More to come soon!
Vinnie
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Thanks, Vinnie. Great timing.
Hope you and yours get some holiday music listening in. All through my childhood and adolescence, my family had a tree decorating party a week or so before Christmas. We always sang Christmas carols while decorating. There were 8 of us. So over the years, harmonies were added, as well as occasionally irreverent changes in lyrics. All was completed with a toast, glasses filled with homemade eggnogg...with just an Irish touch of spirits to further gladden the already glad hearts.
Best wishes,
Christopher
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Thanks, Vinnie. Great timing.
Hope you and yours get some holiday music listening in. All through my childhood and adolescence, my family had a tree decorating party a week or so before Christmas. We always sang Christmas carols while decorating. There were 8 of us. So over the years, harmonies were added, as well as occasionally irreverent changes in lyrics. All was completed with a toast, glasses filled with homemade eggnogg...with just an Irish touch of spirits to further gladden the already glad hearts.
Best wishes,
Christopher
Hi Christopher,
Thanks for sharing.
It is awesome how music can bring us 'back in time.' When I hear a song for the first time, somehow my brain seems to save other details in memory, such as where I am, and what I am doing - WITH - remembering the song. It does't happen for every song, but it does for many of them. When I hear certain Christmas songs, I can remember being a little boy and where I was and who I was with the first time I heard them. It sounds like this has been your experience with your caroling as a child.
Here is to another glass of 'spirited' eggnogg! (the best kind!) :beer:
Vinnie
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All,
UPDATE TIME
- LIO MOSFET AMP - Good news! We found a heatsink that is fits perfectly and is far superior thermally, so we will NOT be using
any fan. 8)
- Deliveries of parts continue to come in, and the LIO enclosures are almost complete and ready to ship. Final REV PCBs are also
being made and shipping soon. So it's getting exciting because we're gearing up to start production and we'll be doing it all day and
night once we have everything.
- LIO Packaging - All set! With two well made foam end-caps, a separate box for accessories, and a double-wall outer box. Designed to be used multiple times and to keep your LIO protected in the harshest shipping environments:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Q6_9A90cUk :green:
- After the holidays, I'll be emailing our pre-order customers to give a more precise estimate on when their LIO will be shipping.
Thanks for all your patience, continued support, and excitement! :xmas: :singing: :hyper:
Happy Holidays to everyone, and all the best in 2015! It's going to be a great year!
Vinnie
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Vinnie,
There will be a mass lay-off quality workers that will be migrating from the north in about 3 days. These guys are kinda small so you can fit a lot of them in your "workshop". They like candy canes, candy corn, and maple syrup, but will only be around for a short time till they are called back to the old grind.
If this guy shows up put him in the quality control department...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEUkxtdVVPA
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=110972)
Chris :xmas:
-
All,
UPDATE TIME
- LIO MOSFET AMP - Good news! We found a heatsink that is fits perfectly and is far superior thermally, so we will NOT be using
any fan. 8)
I was }{ this close to ordering a LIO during the pre-order period when you offered free shipping both ways. Then I saw there was a high probability of a fan on board and opted out. The heatsink is really exciting news Vinnie. Great work!! Merry Christmas.
Blu99Zoomer
-
All,
UPDATE TIME
- LIO MOSFET AMP - Good news! We found a heatsink that is fits perfectly and is far superior thermally, so we will NOT be using
any fan. 8)
I was }{ this close to ordering a LIO during the pre-order period when you offered free shipping both ways. Then I saw there was a high probability of a fan on board and opted out. The heatsink is really exciting news Vinnie. Great work!! Merry Christmas.
Blu99Zoomer
Hi Blu,
Thanks - I'm glad we found a good sink. Not cheap, but well worth it instead of the fan. I did some 4-ohm load torture testing and it works great!
So now you need to place your order. :wink: :green:
Vinnie
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All,
Just a quick update:
LIO ENCLOSURES - should finally arrive by end of this week! :thumb:
LIO PCBs - most of them will be here by next week, and then we'll be soldering away! A few will
follow the week after and we'll finish them, and then we'll be BUILDING AWAY! :hyper:
- January is going to be a busy month! I believe we'll be able to ship out many of the pre-orders then, and hopefully
some review units as well!
- End of January is scheduled for a big photo and video shoot, so after that the LIO website will be updated as well.
- Our next audio show is going to be AXPONA (Chicago - April 24 - 26). This will be my first AXPONA and I'm looking forward to it!
Wishing everyone a happy, healthy, and music-filled New Year! :beer:
Vinnie
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All,
Happy New Year!
I've been very busy - NOW THAT (many) LIO PARTS ARE IN!!!! :thumb: :hyper: :bounce: :dance:
- LIO ENCLOSURES are IN
- MOST of the blank PCBs for the modules (which we are soldering parts do around the clock!) are IN
- LIO Packaging is all here
So... just waiting on a few more PCBs that will be coming in in the next 1 - 2 weeks, but in the meantime, we are building
away on the LIO Pre-Orders and expect to be able to ship most of them this month (definitely to those who ordered
in October and November, and hopefully a handful of the orders received in December).
If we were already in production last month like I hoped for, I would have been at CES. But since there is just too much to do now, we are staying back to build pre-orders and review units.
I was also informed that the new issue of The Absolute Sound lists LIO as "Top 10 Most Significant Products at RMAF 2014." I need to
get a copy... 8)
More updates soon...
Vinnie
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Hi Vinnie,
Thought you might find a little news from CES interesting: http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2015/01/chord-electronics-launch-hugo-tt-dac-at-ces-2015/ (http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2015/01/chord-electronics-launch-hugo-tt-dac-at-ces-2015/)
The noteworthy part: In surrendering portability, the Hugo TT has been designed to run continuously from the supplied wall charger. However, the battery has been doubled in size and is now ameliorated by 10,000,000 uF of supercapacitors providing greater power storage potential than the standard capacitors found in the original Hugo. The Hugo TT packs a power supply double act about which Franks says, “We use them (supercapacitors) in the same way that Formula 1 racing cars use them: they give the batteries more time to ramp up their chemical action, extending battery life as well as improving dynamics and a providing a faster response to demanding transients.”
(Keener observers will know that Vinnie Rossi’s forthcoming LIO amplifier will also deploy supercapacitors). --John Darko
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Hi Vinnie,
Thought you might find a little news from CES interesting: http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2015/01/chord-electronics-launch-hugo-tt-dac-at-ces-2015/ (http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2015/01/chord-electronics-launch-hugo-tt-dac-at-ces-2015/)
The noteworthy part:
Hi Chris,
Thanks for sharing. Looks like a different application using ultracapacitors - in parallel with batteries.
If anyone has any questions about the ultracapacitor technology used by LIO - feel free to ask.
Vinnie
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Just an update:
We are neck-deep in building LIO modules. They are coming out great! 8)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=113351&size=small)
LIO MOSFET AMP modules being assembled (top view). Cool blue heatsink -
no fan.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=113355&size=small)
LIO MOSFET AMP modules, rear view. Cardas binding posts.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=113352&size=small)
LIO RVC (Resistor Volume Control) modules. Only 3" x 3" (and analog circuitry
is only 1/2 of that!)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=113353&size=small)
LIO OUTPUTS (1 fixed level, 2 variable). Cardas Rhodium RCAs.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=113354&size=small)
A stack of LIO bottom panels (black anodized aluminum) being populated with standoffs, feet, and more...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=113356&size=small)
A freshly opened box of ultracapacitors that will be used in building LIO PURE-DC-4EVR boards.
More pics, videos, and details coming soon! :hyper:
Vinnie
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How many farads in that box of caps, Vinnie?
Pictures look great, and I appreciate the update emails as well. Exciting stuff!
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Nice to see things comng along Vinnie :thumb:
Pics are great, keep them coming
-jay
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How many farads in that box of caps, Vinnie?
Pictures look great, and I appreciate the update emails as well. Exciting stuff!
Hi brh,
Each ultracapacitor we use has a storage rating of 350 Farads (350,000,000uF).
In the LIO, each capacitor bank of the PURE-DC-4EVR power supply uses 9 ultracaps.
Just for fun, each carton (cardboard box, from the pic above) contains 63 ultracaps. If all in parallel that would be
22,050,000,000 microfarads of charge. Yes - 22 trillion uF !!! :whip: That's a whole lot of electron lovin' :inlove:
Another tidbit - the ESR (effective series resistance) of each ultracap is approx. 3 milliohm = 0.003 ohm. Needless to say,
peak output current capability is insanely high!
Nice to see things comng along Vinnie
Pics are great, keep them coming
-jay
Thanks, Jay!
-Vinnie
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And here we have a LIO bottom assembly. Just a couple of pics from my phone (real photo shoot this weekend!). :D
These are the 2 main boards in the LIO. The one with the 18 ultracapacitors is the PURE-DC-4EVR board, which is located
closer to the front panel (not shown). The board behind it is the LIO MB ("motherboard"), with no modules installed yet. You can see black, 10-pin headers and stand-offs on this board that the LIO modules plug into.
When the sides and front panel get installed next, the LIO CONTROL board is mounted to the front panel and connects to both of
these boards. LIO CONTROL is the main "brain" of the system. I'll show that one next!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=113980)
[A top view of LIO MB and LIO PURE-DC-4EVR main boards, mounted to black anodized aluminum bottom panel.]
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=113978)
[Side view of the pic above.]
I'll be going into more detail soon (with professional photos). For now, we are too busy building away the pre-orders! :hyper:
Have a good weekend,
Vinnie
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My photographers are doing their thing today. Their pics are going to look MUCH better than mine! Tomorrow
is a new video shoot.
I should have them to share in a few weeks. :bounce:
Vinnie
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All,
UPDATE
I anticipate shipping the first handful of pre-order units this week, followed by more next week. :singing:
I am confident that *most* of the pre-orders will be shipped out by the end of this month.
I want to thank you all for your patience and understanding. I really was hoping that you would of had them by now,
but there have been a few delays as well as some lost days from being hit with winter storms (if you live in New England,
you know what I'm talking about. This year is heading towards being one of worst ones for snow fall :cuss:).
The good news is that we are building away around the clock now and will be shipping soon. And once we clear through the
pre-orders, we will be working on some of your great ideas for future modules.
Thank you!
Vinnie
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My photographers are doing their thing today. Their pics are going to look MUCH better than mine! Tomorrow
is a new video shoot.
I should have them to share in a few weeks. :bounce:
Vinnie
As promised, see this new thread:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=132496.0
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Website updates are happening as I type this:
http://vinnierossi.com
http://vinnierossi.com/configure-lio/
:thumb:
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Website updates are happening as I type this:
http://vinnierossi.com
http://vinnierossi.com/configure-lio/
:thumb:
Love that interior animation of it being "assembled"!
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And the new LIO video is live on our website, as well as here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=009ipwPuMgg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=009ipwPuMgg)
8)