AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => The HiRez Music Circle => Topic started by: Phil A on 20 Oct 2010, 01:00 am
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I noticed there are two versions of "Band on the Run" - Deluxe and Special and the Deluxe is much more expensive and apparently has a 4th disc. I'm all for hi-rez and like the music even though I really don't believe Paul McCartney is really alive. It looked like the Deluxe Edition was three and a half times the Special Edition. Anyone know if there are any other differences other than the 4th disc?
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I found some more info. From the below it's looks like the hi-rez will be downloadable only with the expensive Deluxe Edition? Or did I misread it?
http://www.concordmusicgroup.com/albums/Band-On-The-Run-CD-DVD-HRM-32564-00/
“Collectors will be especially thrilled by the 4 disc (3CD, 1 DVD) deluxe edition which adds an extraordinary 120-page hard bound book containing many unseen and unpublished photos by Linda McCartney and Clive Arrowsmith, album and single artwork, downloadable hi-res audio versions of the remastered album and bonus audio tracks, a full history of the album complete with a new interview with Paul and expanded track by track information for all four discs. The deluxe edition also includes a special Band on the Run audio documentary (originally produced for the 25th Anniversary edition.)”
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Hmm, so I assume that's just the $90 flavor in hi-rez (3cd, 1DVD, + download hi-rez)?
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Hmm, so I assume that's just the $90 flavor in hi-rez (3cd, 1DVD, + download hi-rez)?
I don't know but that's how I read the description
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Hmm, so I assume that's just the $90 flavor in hi-rez (3cd, 1DVD, + download hi-rez)?
I also seen pre-order price for the Deluxe Edition in the neighborhood of $70. It would be nice if they just had the downloadable hi-rez version.
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Guys, not sure what you are looking at, but my site shows hirez for $19.99, just like I posted. And yes, as per my post there are like 4 versions of the "collection"...too much IMHO.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37402)
http://www.paulmccartney.com/bandontherun/
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Ted - the site I posted is that of the record label - Concord Music Group. What site are you looking at?
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Ted - the site I posted is that of the record label - Concord Music Group. What site are you looking at?
Paul's site, the one I referenced. It's in my posts (I edited the original too).
http://www.paulmccartney.com/bandontherun/
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I wonder if the record label will show it later? They show four versions, CD, LP, Special and Deluxe but no separate digital?
http://www.concordmusicgroup.com/search/?Search_Type=album&Search=band+on+the+run
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Incidentally, if one goes to the McCartney site and places the digital download in their cart it shows this:
Pre-order BOTR High Resolution Digital Audio Only
Hide details
$19.99
Selected Digital Media:
Audio Format: MP3 Only (320 kbps)
Bonus Tracks
AUDIO TRACKS:
- Band on the Run (Live in Glasgow, 1979)
- No Words (Live in Glasgow, 1979)
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I've been reading the descriptions again on the McCartney website and I believe the Deluxe Edition Digital Audio for $29.99 does include hi-rez vs. the regular digital for $19.99 which is 320bps MP3S. The description of the Deluxe Edition Digital says this:
"Deluxe Edition audio is available as DRM-free 320Kbps MP3s, FLAC, Apple Lossless and high resolution 24bit 96kHz audio (limited and unlimited)
"
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I've been reading the descriptions again on the McCartney website and I believe the Deluxe Edition Digital Audio for $29.99 does include hi-rez vs. the regular digital for $19.99 which is 320bps MP3S. The description of the Deluxe Edition Digital says this:
"Deluxe Edition audio is available as DRM-free 320Kbps MP3s, FLAC, Apple Lossless and high resolution 24bit 96kHz audio (limited and unlimited)
"
Phil, what my site says is there is no "regular digital for $19.99" (you can buy MP3 only for $8.99). If you were to order the deluxe downloads at $29.99 (which you claim is only way to get 24/96) then go to store and pulldown details...still says MP3 (which is obviously wrong....likely just early pre-order issues)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=37423)
I ordered the hirez at $19.99. I'll report back on Nov 2nd.
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Ted thanks. It is hard with most commercial labels to get accurate information when it is hi-rez. I'm all over it if it is $19.99 and I'd even spring for $29.99. $89.99 (even discounted) is just too much.
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Ted-
I'd love to have this in high res, but I'll wait to hear your report about what the file really is. I agree that the "mp3" description with the link is probably just a mistake; but after you get the file, let us know if it is really 24/96 and how the remaster sounds.
I for one really appreciate that they are making an "unlimited" version available. I don't like volume compression, even when lightly applied as on the Beatles remasters - I think, for example, it makes the percussion sounds too up front and un-natural sounding.
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Wrote the company asking about the checkout calling the hi res files 320k mp3. Here's the reply I received:
Hi there,
Apologies for any confusion but the "mp3/320 only" refers to the bonus tracks you receive immediately after purchasing. Any other audio that comes with your order will be available in the hi-res formats.
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Amazon just emailed me an advertisement for the remaster. They are pushing all the variations EXCEPT the hi-res. The hi-res is only mentioned in a passing phrase in the product description (as a bonus you get with the deluxe and special editions). No separate download mentioned or the ability to buy the download from them or through them as a separate edition. No listing of the hi-res tracks in the product detail.
I think this tells us a lot about the place of hi-res in marketing for the mainstream - non-existent.
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Agree about hirez in the mainstream. We're trying! :)
Update: I cancelled my hirez order for $19.99 (cc problem on the site) and forgot to reorder until today. Lo and behold the Macca site now has the hirez split into "limited " and "unlimited" each for $9.99. I ordered the "unlimited" and it went through (downloaded the 2 addtl mp3 songs, live versions of BOTR and No Words).
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Ted:
What is the difference between the "limited" and "unlimited"?
Chris H.
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Peak limiting is a process that increases the loudness of music. It is achieved by holding the loudest peaks down and raising the overall level of the music. Much depends on the amount of limiting applied, but at its most extreme the result can be a serious reduction in the dynamic range and often audible distortion.
The release of The Beatles’ remasters in 2009 saw a marked change in attitudes towards these issues, where both noise reduction and limiting were used sparingly with the aim of representing the master tapes more accurately. Such is the case with the newly remastered CD of Band on the Run: tape noise reduction has scarcely been used and the degree of limiting is subtle. In addition digital technology has advanced with the ability now to offer recordings in 24 bit/96kHz. The high resolution version is being made available via download and is being offered in two formats: limited, which is comparable in volume to the remastered CD, and un-limited, which in comparison with the limited version will sound quieter, but retain the dynamic range of the original master recording.
Allan Rouse Abbey Road Studios"
[/i]
http://www.paulmccartney.com/bandontherun/
Chris, That's all I got. I've never seen this kind of release before...a hirez file with gain limiting? Might be interesting to get both for $19.99 or we swap (for scientific purposes only :) ).
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Agree about hirez in the mainstream. We're trying! :)
Update: I cancelled my hirez order for $19.99 (cc problem on the site) and forgot to reorder until today. Lo and behold the Macca site now has the hirez split into "limited " and "unlimited" each for $9.99. I ordered the "unlimited" and it went through (downloaded the 2 addtl mp3 songs, live versions of BOTR and No Words).
I ordered it too
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Got both the limited and unlimited yesterday. Only paid $9.99, but they sent me download codes for both versions. They've also changed the site pricing again: it's back to $19.99 for each version.
That's sort of pricey, and not a good idea in my opinion. I think greed will lead to fewer sales and less profit in the end.
In any case, I'm happy with the sound, especially of the unlimited version. Has greater clarity and detail than previous versions, more "air" between instruments, and better dynamics. More thump to drums.
As far as the limited version:
Pros: Louder (obviously). But seriously, the most noticeable difference is that Paul's bass is louder and more prominent than on the unlimited. On it's own that's a good thing.
Cons: The limiting negatively effects the balance between the instruments in the mix. Example: the guitar in the opening of Mamunia: you can hear it in both versions, but in the Limited version it is more in the background, more overshadowed by the prominent bass.
Overall: the limiting is not heavily done, and in general sounds fine. I think I might like the limited version better for casual or background listening, or on a mp3 player. It's definitely not as good for critical listening.
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I also paid $9.99 for the unlimited version and received download codes for the limited version also, downloaded both and so far just listened to the unlimited. I know the red book version very well so have not bothered doing an AB, the hi-rez version is glorious to listen too. In addition the additional tracks are an added bonus.
I was going to post that the $9.99 was a tremendous deal and a wake up call to the industry as a pricing strategy that would generate more interest and total revenue, so was surprised when they reverted back to $19.99. At $9.99 I would jump on buying downloads of classic albums that I have on LP/CD/Cassette etc etc.., but at $19.99 I would be more selective.
Back to the plot - this is a classic album, the hi-rez version is well worth the download for all fans. Thanks for the heads up on this Ted.
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I first posted over on CA (cuz AC was down, of course :) ) that I was disappointed by the "unlimited" version's lack of heft or weight compared to the 25th Anniversary redbook (known to be a little bass heavy anyway), or even the gold DCC. I downloaded the limited version too. After listening only via my desktop setup (foobar and AudioEngine 5's) I continue to like the gold DCC and 25th a little better, but enjoy some songs in the unlimited version (more clarity, more well-defined instruments, more air, but less ballsy). Those songs are more the ballads (Mamunia, Nineteen Hundred...etc). The limited version sounds almost identical to my existing ones so it's of little use, and takes up significantly more hd space, so unless it blows me away on my main rig it will be archived in FLAC and taken out of rotation.
Overall, I have to admit that Band On The Run is not my favorite Paul album. I mean, as a 56 yr old it was a major soundtrack to my life, and I remember the day I picked it up in winter of 1973, at Forest Books and Records, about a 5 min walk off campus at Univ of Dayton. But after hearing it maybe a gazillion times I still find myself finding it a bit too saccharin vs classics like Paul's self-titled first album, Ram, Back To The Egg and the quirky Wild Life. I guess it's why I like the more ballsy versions; it takes the album from pop to semi-rock?
So, I'll report back after firing all these versions up on the main rig......but today is VJ day (vote for Jennifer, my wife, running again for State Representative, a position she held from 2006-2008, then lost.). I'll be back in the saddle tomorrow. We are soooooo looking forward to life returning to semi-normal, win or lose (and she'll likely lose...it's VERY conservative here :wink: ) ).
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So Ted, politics aside :lol:, what you're confirming is that the value of the Hi-Rez download is overestimated by the industry. What the industry believes the download to be worth is greater than critical customers believe the value to be. Not trying to put words in your mouth here, but just stating what I believe is the major enabler preventing growth of Hi-Rez media downloads - price. It's worth $9.99 as an incremental purchase but not worth $19.99 when you already have equivalent or better versions available that you've already purchased?
By the way, I'm just jealous - I have no voting rights, maybe not a bad situation give the comedians in my part of the country :roll:.
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Sorry for the political rant.. It's banned here, so mine was more work-related. :)
Anyway, as far as value is concerned, I continue to be concerned about the hi-price of hi-rez! In some cases, the material is either newly available (HDTT) or of such higher quality (lots of DVD-Audio like Donald Fagen, Beck, etc) that the price is warranted for those of us with resolving systems. Add to that, the multichannel surround experience of SACD, Blu-Ray and DVD-Audio and once again for those of us with 5.1 or 7.1 needs...it's good money in most cases. However, more and more hirez remasters are being uncovered as "barely hirez" (i.e 24 bit but upsampled from 44k) or even some "faux" stuff (redbook masters) that value is very spotty. What's nice about several download sites, like HDtracks, is that 1) they are weeding out the faux ones; and 2) they allow you to buy an individual song for like $3, so you can test for yourself without a huge commitment.
I tend to begin to sweat when downloaded music costs more than $20-25. So..for Band On The Run, $9.99 was a no-brainer, and I believe $19.99 isn't bad...especially if you like the album more than I do. But these boxed versions at $70-90? Wow.
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I got it for $9.99, so I can't complain. I probably would have paid $19.99, but I really like BOTR (still).
But I don't think I would pay that on a regular basis, especially for new copies of stuff I already own. I think this is another classic case of record company greed that will lead to everyone losing. Once you go over $10 a pop, and certainly over $15, the market is going to be very small. In addition to rational considerations of "value", it's already well established that items like this and like monthly "subscriptions" on the web have to deal with psychological pricing barriers. $10 is one barrier, and $20 is definitely another. For instance, MLB over the years raised it's season subscription price (for live streaming of baseball radio broadcasts) from $10, to $15, to $20. After the first year at $20, they brought the price back to $15, because the number of subscriptions dropped off drastically. The $5 doesn't seem like a big difference, but it simply pushed the price over that psychological barrier, and even many existing subsribers weren't willing to pay it.
The record companies would make more money in the long run by pricing at $9.99: They will make more immediate sales, and also start building a market for hi-res downloads. If people never try it, they'll never start to buy it.
If the market for hi-res doesn't expand, it will never be more than a niche format, and we will probably not see much of a catalogue of popular music (as opposed to classical and jazz). The classical market is totally different, listeners are willing to pay for quality sound and new good versions of previously owned material.
I don't have any problem with the prices of the boxed versions (although I doubt they sell very many). That's for people who want the "coffee table book" version, and not just the music. Another market entirely. I'm just not interested.
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Overall, I have to admit that Band On The Run is not my favorite Paul album. I mean, as a 56 yr old it was a major soundtrack to my life, and I remember the day I picked it up in winter of 1973, at Forest Books and Records, about a 5 min walk off campus at Univ of Dayton. But after hearing it maybe a gazillion times I still find myself finding it a bit too saccharin vs classics like Paul's self-titled first album, Ram, Back To The Egg and the quirky Wild Life.
Ted, I'm glad to know I'm not the only person in the world who actually likes (and listens to) Wild Life. Except for the lead vocal when sung by Linda. Sorry Paul, she was okay as a backup singer, but as a lead? No.
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I downloaded the Unlimited version at HD Tracks today ($19.98). Came with bonus tracks as well. Have not had a chance to listen to it. I can definitely see the argument of why some might prefer the Limited version for more casual listening but for critical listening, I'll take the most detail I can. For anyone familiar with MFSL releases, I'm assuming that is what one would expect from an Unlimited version. A bit lower volume but slightly more detail in the extremes. For those that complain about the lower volume, that is what the volume pot is for. :icon_lol:
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You can buy individual tracks at HDTracks. More expensive per song, but lets you download a track or two for testing purposes.
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HD Tracks also has a good explanation of the difference in the compressed and non-compressed versions. I am going to download the non-compressed version. It is a good album. https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?file=artistdetail&id=9433 (https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?file=artistdetail&id=9433)
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... I mean, as a 56 yr old it was a major soundtrack to my life, and I remember the day I picked it up in winter of 1973, at Forest Books and Records, about a 5 min walk off campus at Univ of Dayton. ...
1973???? Damn, I'm feeling old......
Reminds me of the time when I coached teenagers in the 80's. We were driving on a road trip and I had the soundtrack to the Big Chill playing (for their edification). One kid kept trying to guess the singers, but was usually out by 20 - 30 years!
I finally told him that if he could guess any band on the tape, I would buy him a jumbo ice cream cone. Well, he tried to no avail. Then the tape flipped over and started playing the other side.
"Hey, I know this one!" he said. "That's Paul McCartney"
The tape had flipped over to "Let It Be".
Damn, I thought. "OK, but what's the band?", I asked.
"That's easy!", he replied, "Band on the Run", with a big grin on his face.
"Nope, close but no cigar - it's the Beatles", I told him.
He looked at me in bewilderment, "You mean to tell me that Paul McCartney was in a band before BOTR?"
I nearly drove off the road....
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Nordic Norm, I had the SAME experience...mine was a friend of my niece's (back in mid-eighties), who upon hearing a Beatles song on the car radio was surprised that Paul was in a band before Wings!! I swerved and nearly killed all of us.
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I just reread my post!? I obviously had BOTR on my brain while I wrote it!
I meant to write Wings, not BOTR!? :oops: