AudioCircle
Other Stuff => Archived Manufacturer Circles => Hoyt-Bedford Speakers => Topic started by: Canada Rob on 21 Apr 2014, 09:07 pm
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If you have a typical solid state amplifier like a Marantz, Creek, Cyrus, Sim Audio, Rotel, NAD, Parasound, Roksan, Teac, Naim, Yamaha, Pioneer, Onkyo, Denon, Arcam, Cambridge Audio, Audiolab (and the list goes on) and you want to get into single driver speakers without replacing your solid state amp, the Hoyt-Bedford line could be a perfect choice. They will work well with SET, SEP, and PP tube amps, and gainclones, but they work equally well with conventional solid state. I haven't tried class D on them, but the strides class D has made, I have no doubt they would work well too.
I thought I would post this to clear away any notion that these speakers are for tubes only. They are thoroughbreds, yet generally very happy with what is in front of them. At 97db efficiency, virtually any power of amp can be put in front of them from flea power to megawatts, from a Decware SE84 to a pair of Halo JC1s. The Hoyt-Bedfords will bring greater dynamics out of your solid state amp than a pair of conventional two+ way heavy rubber surround drivered speakers will. High efficiency and ultra lightweight drivers make for incredible dynamics and a reality of presentation most 2+ way speakers can't even dream of.
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Hi Rob,
I decided to finally get involved in this forum (I always keep an eye on it anyway)! I just wanted to second your post that the Hoyts are pretty happy with pretty much anything you can put in front of them and I thought other forum users might be looking for an actual Hoyt owner's opinion. So long as the amp is quite (very quiet, remember those speakers are really sensitive!) you'll get good to amazing results...but almost never bad sound. In fact I think you really have to make a concious effort to make the Hoyts sound "bad".
Cheers!
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Hello Dave, and welcome to the AudioCircle forum. We look forward to your input. My experience on here is that a great bunch of guys (maybe girls too) frequent this forum, and I have thoroughly enjoyed it.
The Hoyt-Bedford speakers make the single driver experience so easy in that you often can use whatever amp you currently have, not to say the Omega lines aren't friendly to a lot of different amps too. Sadly, not enough people know what an incredible bargain the Hoyts are.
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I have a pair of Hoyt Type 1's on order with Louis. I can switch amps between the Musical Paradise MP-301 MK2 or my harmon/kardon AVR 645. I'll post on this thread with the amp that offers the best results.
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Hi milford3,
I've always been curious about the Musical Paradise amps. I look forward to reading your opinions. If I can offer just a bit of advice; be patient with the Type 1s as they break in! Ah, you probably already knew that :D
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High efficiency and ultra lightweight drivers make for incredible dynamics and a reality of presentation most 2+ way speakers can't even dream of.
Most excellent Canada Rob...a simple and elegant statement that brings home how the Louis' Super 5's behave. Unless I come across a once-in-a-life-time, 2-way monitor and matching class D amp, it's single driver...full speed ahead. The coherence on DVD's such as Alison Kraus, Fleetwood Mac and live Therion is just addicting.
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Well said FireGuy!!! Well said :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
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Well said FireGuy!!! Well said :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
Has Louis given you a ship date on those Type 1's? You have until next month the 17th. No excuses. Your choice Karelian Birch Burl should nothing less than gorgeous. I'm liking it because it's a finish that's different. I guess I'm just too scared to meander away from Boston Cherry, Natural Cherry and Walnut and this should be proof enough that I need to experiment a little.
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Has Louis given you a ship date on those Type 1's? You have until next month the 17th. No excuses. Your choice Karelian Birch Burl should nothing less than gorgeous. I'm liking it because it's a finish that's different. I guess I'm just too scared to meander away from Boston Cherry, Natural Cherry and Walnut and this should be proof enough that I need to experiment a little.
No ship date yet. The Karelian Birch Burl is imported from Italy. This wait is killing me.
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FireGuy,
Thank you for the kind compliment.
milford3,
We don't want the wait to kill you. We want you alive when you get your speakers, so you can enjoy them for many years to come.
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I am currently running my Hoyt-Bedford Type I's with an Odyssey Stratos SS Amplifier.
The Stratos produces are big dynamic sound with my Hoyt's.
The word that keeps coming to mind with this combination is fun; it is simply fun to listen to.
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I am currently running my Hoyt-Bedford Type I's with an Odyssey Stratos SS Amplifier.
The Stratos produces are big dynamic sound with my Hoyt's.
The word that keeps coming to mind with this combination is fun; it is simply fun to listen to.
It's looking real good that I'll be able to road test the Type 1's in the coming few weeks with Milford3. In addition to enjoying the HB's I'll be able to compare these with the RS5 driver on my 5's. Should be interesting to get a take of their different sonic characteristics. Yes sir, it's simply fun. Sometimes we need to enjoy the music (nothing new said here) and put aside the X's & O's. I plan on doing just that. Will someone fill the fridge please!
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The fridge will be filled with this.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=98416)
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Save the juice for after your evaluations, so we can get an accurate take on your comparisons. :beer: :lol:
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Save the juice for after your evaluations, so we can get an accurate take on your comparisons. :beer: :lol:
Good advice. We'll have plenty of time to do both.
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As opposed to typical tube amps?
Sounds like you're trying to stereotype solid state amps, implying that they are inferior to tube amps and not well suited for single driver speakers. As a solid state owner for 40+ years I could take offense at your proposition. My single driver speakers (F3 = 28 Hz) match up better with the high damping factor typical of solid state. Have tried a few tube amps on them and got typical tube bass bloat every time.
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As opposed to typical tube amps?
Sounds like you're trying to stereotype solid state amps, implying that they are inferior to tube amps and not well suited for single driver speakers. As a solid state owner for 40+ years I could take offense at your proposition. My single driver speakers (F3 = 28 Hz) match up better with the high damping factor typical of solid state. Have tried a few tube amps on them and got typical tube bass bloat every time.
Hi JLM,
No attack on solid state intended, I have both tubes and solid state. What are you running for amp and speakers?
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I commissioned the first pair of Bob Brine's M18-200's (he keeps changing his website and speaker designations) which is a 3 cubic foot transmission line design (6 dB roll off to match room gain, port sound wave in phase with driver, internal baffle is sloped so that rear sound wave is directed away from the driver so it doesn't smear against/through the cone). The driver is a Fostex F200A (huge AlNiCo magnet, 90 dB/w/m, 8 ohms, F3 = 30 Hz, no "stinking" whizzer, currently $560 each via Madisound). Bud Purvine himself (inventor of EnABL) treated the drivers and calls them the world's best (his treatment worked wonders on a speaker I already loved). The sound is full bodied and supremely musical. Owners of "typical" single driver speakers are uniformly slack jawed by the deep bass.
http://www.brinesacoustics.com/Pages/T18-F200/Main.html
http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-8-fullrange/fostex-f200a-8-full-range-with-alnico-magnet/
I driven these speakers with a variety of amps. The first regular amp was a battery powered 7 wpc modified class T. Did a remarkably good job, but too "polite". Had much more drive than a 6 wpc Decware integrated. The Decware and an EL34 push pull both exhibited severe bass bloat. Replaced the class T with used Channel Island Audio VMB-100 (40 watt chip based mono blocks). The polite dinner guest was easily upstaged by the NFL linebacker in a tux. A few years back picked up a used pair of the original Channel Island Audio D-100 (100 watt Hypex based class D). Dusty's designs always emphasized hefty power supplies, which I believe in. These amps added more resolution and bit more grip. Like all my solid state amps I leave them on to keep circuits warm, extend their life, and to be ready at a moments notice.
http://www.stereophile.com/solidpoweramps/805cia
http://www.stereomojo.com/Channel%20Islands%20D-100%20Monoblock%20Power%20Amplifiers/CHANNELISLANDSD-100MONOBLOCKPOWERAMPLIFIERS.htm
I tried for years to like tubes, was a devoted DecHead, but have remained for 40 years a "speaker guy" and gave up trying to find a high efficiency speaker that pushed all my buttons. Thanks to exposure to I. M. (Bud) Fried I became a big fan of transmission line design and those years around Decware I also became a fan of single driver design. So the M18-200's are my "babies" and my audio world revolves around them. I hang around here (Omega Circle) because of Louis' spirit and the magic he's done with 4 inch drivers. Would love to find an affordable, high sound quality, high powered tube amp with extreme tube life but frankly I don't have good luck with tubes and they don't fit my lifestyle anyway.
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As opposed to typical tube amps?
Sounds like you're trying to stereotype solid state amps, implying that they are inferior to tube amps and not well suited for single driver speakers. As a solid state owner for 40+ years I could take offense at your proposition. My single driver speakers (F3 = 28 Hz) match up better with the high damping factor typical of solid state. Have tried a few tube amps on them and got typical tube bass bloat every time.
I don't think he's stereotyping solid state amps at all. The fact of the matter is that the damping factor is "typically" much higher in solid state amplifiers as you know, and this sees them not always play ball with single driver speakers. And that is because for a driver to be full-range it needs to be of low mass, and if this is combined with a strong motor, can lead to a lean sound if the damping factor is too high from the amp. Zu speakers are a prime example of this.
Not sure why you would take offence to this, being fact.
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Thanks JLM for the information and the links.
I have played the Hoyt-Bedford type 1 (early version with larger whizzer cone) and if memory serves me correctly on an Ideal Innovations Elite 80 PP and Elite 40SE SET, Decware SE84 Select SET (CCE with V-Caps and Alps blue), Creek A50 (MOSFET), and a Firestone Big Joe V1.3 gainclone all with non bloated, believable bass. In fact, I have never in all my years with Omega and all the models I have had go through my place experienced bloated bass regardless of the amplification. The only time I experienced too much bass on Omega speakers was running a pair of Super 3Ts with a Decware SE84 Select on my desktop. Between the low damping factor of the amp and the 3Ts ability to produce considerable bass, and the fact my desk was in a corner, the bass got a bit too much, not to mention I am not a "bass head". That same system in a room situation was sublime.
I have also had another brand (highly touted, and often reviewed) of single driver speaker on my desktop which did have bass bloat which was so bad I couldn't play certain music on them. I put my first Omega Super 3i's in their place and the difference was like night and day - the whole frequency spectrum dramatically improved. The 3i's stayed, the others went. Louis, IMO has nailed the bass department on every speaker of his I have ever heard.
A major key to this hobby of audio can be summed up in three words; synergy of components, and my reason for starting this thread is to give a heads up to owners and potential owners of Hoyt-Bedford speakers, that there may be a lot out there which synergizes with them in the way of solid state amps.
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High efficiency and ultra lightweight drivers make for incredible dynamics and a reality of presentation most 2+ way speakers can't even dream of.
Most excellent Canada Rob...a simple and elegant statement that brings home how the Louis' Super 5's behave. Unless I come across a once-in-a-life-time, 2-way monitor and matching class D amp, it's single driver...full speed ahead. The coherence on DVD's such as Alison Kraus, Fleetwood Mac and live Therion is just addicting.
The only driver I have heard that is clearly superior is from TAD, they start at $30k for the cheapest speaker model and the matching TAD electronics will be in the 6-figure range...
And I would also mention that the TAD gear is clearly better than anything else available at any price.... so if I had 6-figures I would own TAD gear, since I don't Omega is a nice alternative. :icon_lol:
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Was taken back by the opening statement of this thread, "getting rid of your solid state," and wondered how the tube guys would take it if an alternative wording was used that included, "dumping your tube amps."
Solid state and tubes each have their advantages/disadvantages, damping factors being a single aspect to consider.
I'm glad that Rob has found that solid state works well with Hoyt-Bedford.
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I have been considering a pair of Hoyt Type 1 monitors for awhile now, and was always curious how they did on solid state. I have a Naim Uniti1 along with Nap-100 amplifier which I do enjoy a lot. Nice to see a thread which mentions solid state on these, as it does seem to be more of a tube-amplification focus generally on single-driver speakers.
My main issue is that I tend to do a lot of listening late at night, and would like to try something that will still maintain detail and clarity at much lower volume settings, and really something that is more efficient/sensitive. My current speakers are multi-driver, dynamic speakers(Larsen Model 4 and Shahinian Obelisk2), and they take a bit of drive to wake them up. Will be watching this space, curious, but not quite ready to take this plunge at the moment. Tim
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Hi JLM,
I agree, my choice of words could have been better, so I changed the wording on that post.
I am not alone in my experience with solid state working well with the Hoyts. Check this link out if you haven't already:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=117506.0 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=117506.0)