AudioCircle
Industry Circles => GR Research => Topic started by: Beatcoaster on 9 Feb 2011, 06:20 pm
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Danny,
When I got my LS's years ago MLS had said that the centers and surrounds had been designed already but were just waiting for production - obviously that was either a lie or it just never happened due to the obvious. Many have said that the x-voce (which I am using as my center now) is a good tonal match but gets even better with the ninja x-over upgrade. I'm a little hesitant to drop that kind of money on a upgrade with keeping the 'inferior drivers' compared to the LS's BG8/XBL2 6.5" combo.
The questions to you are: Was there ever a center channel for the LS mocked up? Is there anyway this would be a kit that you could produce? I know you have a ton of the stock LS crossovers from the AV123 auction, is that something that could incorporated into a kit cutting costs/development time? Perhaps (4) of the XBL2 6.5's and a single BG8 or BG3?
After the latest NW GTG I know of one fellow LS owner(Randy, Vancouver WA) that is on this exact quest. I had Scott(Skeeter) over last night demoing the Trinity center channel with my LS's, hoping to help him out, and in my opinion, the search is still on for one that tonally matches.
With my latest endeavors in veneering/box building I have no doubts that I could make something aesthetically great that tonally matches my LS's. I'm sure there are many folks that feel the same, and with you supplying us with a box design and the parts, we could all make the center channels we have wanted since we took delivery of the LS's. Any thoughts on this? Thanks!
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Hey BC,
The last time I spoke to Danny about this (4-5 months ago), there were no plans to go forward with a specific LS Center.
The Neo 8 is a no go for this application as it's really more of a line array specific driver.
Have you considered the OB-5/7 (Neo 3) in a horizontal configuration?
Ruben
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I have X-Omni's and an X-CS all with Ninja Master crossovers and No Rez. The detail level, soundstage, and imaging are great! These are a perfect match up front and my tweeters are all almost the same height.
When the av123 auction came along, I ended up buying 3 pairs of LS-6 cabinets. I started wondering what I would do for a center speaker. Danny suggested the OB-7 Plus without the bass section. After thinking for a while, I realized I had never asked myself if I "needed" the center speaker. I compared the center with center channel mixed back into the mains. As long as I am sitting within the width of the mains, I found that I like a phantom center better. Actually, sitting outside the width isn't even that bad. I used the Blu-ray of Cars to test the panning, soundstage, and detail. With point source speakers, the center is probably more important, but with the omni's and line source I would think that most would be happy without the center. No center also allows me to put my projector screen in a more optimum location.
Positives for no center:
- Better dynamics of center channel material (could be due to using a more powerful amp for mains)
- Higher vertical soundstage for center channel material
- Smoother panning
- Less reflections from another source
- Perfect time alignment with center channel/mains
- Less vertical sweet spot (standing has less of an effect)
I am using an HTPC so I have more advanced control over channels than with a receiver. I can also quickly switch between phantom/no phantom center. Some receivers might have a worse implementation of phantom center than others.
You already have the LS-6's and may have tried a phantom center already.
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This is a sad situation. I have a pair of Moho LS's and it would be nice to have a matching center; or at least something that uses a planar. Mine are used in my family room (not the main HT room) but still it would be nice to get something closer than the Tannoy 8" Dual Concentric I've been using.
Was going to settle for an X-Voce, but from the couple of guys I've talked to that used it with LS's it is not nearly close enough in timbre; plus I don't like toppled MTM's anyway.
Even watching television it's amazing how much of the action comes out of the center channel. Phantom center works great for 1/2 of my seats and the other half gets the center image pulled to whatever speaker is closest.
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It is not really a sad situation. Get a Neo3S and be done with it.
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Good call Robert!
I built an N3S for a customer who paired it with his LS's and he loves it! :thumb:
I'll send him an email and see if he wouldn't mind chiming in with his take on the combo.
Ruben
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The problem (one of them any way) is that it is not practical to use the Neo 8 as single units.
I know a side laying array would be really cool too but in order to keep a good horizontal coverage you have to keep the acoustic centers really close to each other or the woofers just cancel each other out on the horizontal plane. This is why the N3S works pretty well as a center channel as the acoustic centers are close.
And using the Neo 3 pdr works really well. And the N3S matches the LS's really well too.
If you guys want I can do something like the N3S but in a small array. How about six M-130X woofers in an array with the Neo 3 pdr in the middle. I can then cross only the two center woofers over to the tweeter to keep the acoustic centers close. Then I can allow the outer four woofers to share the load in the bottom end only.
I think I could make that work. How does that sound?
That would be 48.75" long and 8" tall. Ports can be used in the rear or it could be sealed.
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:thumb:
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:thumb:
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It is not really a sad situation. Get a Neo3S and be done with it.
I should clarify -- sad in that it would be nice to have the center channel's veneer be a perfect match for the LS's.
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Okay, I just hooked up 6 of the M-130X woofers in a series parallel configuration of two groups of three, then by-passed the outer four with a 47uF cap value (I might could use a 56uF, 62uF, or 75uF value there) and added a typical inductor and cap of a second order crossover. The impedance sweep showed it to be pretty good and the minimum to be in the 6.9 to 7 ohm range. So no problem with that configuration.
Power handling would be high just like the LS's.
Now if enough people want one, and you can get Ruben to not only build you enclosures, but get him to send me an enclosure to do the network design with, then we can make it happen.
Keep in mind too that it will be nearly 49" wide.
Okay, who wants one?
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Now if enough people want one, and you can get Ruben to not only build you enclosures, but get him to send me an enclosure to do the network design with, then we can make it happen.
Keep in mind too that it will be nearly 49" wide.
Okay, who wants one?
The minute you responded with the idea of a new center I shot you an email offering to build the test enclosure. Check your email! :green:
As soon as I get the dimensions from Danny, I'll get started. :thumb:
Ruben
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Im interested, but only in the kit.
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Wow! No beating around the bush on this one. :thumb:
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Okay, then is a rear ported version preferred? That will give it good low end extension, but also means it will need a little room behind it for the ports to breath.
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+1 ported :thumb:
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I wanna build one!
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Do I get an 'idea discount' on the kit? :thumb:
This center needs to have big sound like the LS's with those great vocals and bass, so I say ported for sure!
Now wants a moho x-voce for cheap? :)
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aaron smithski - I am still trying to hunt down some of the 'moho' veneer to this day. So far it seems that there are Eastern Indian Laurel veneers that come close, but typically dont have the same coloring, cut pattern and sap stripe. If I can find some, it will be bought that instant. This website shows some with nearly the same coloring as what are speakers are, but most East indian laurel I have found is much darker... http://www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/laurel.htm
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Ask and you shall receive! That is outstanding customer service! :thumb:
Best,
Ed
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I have been pestering Danny for a couple of years about building a behemoth center. :wink:
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I should clarify -- sad in that it would be nice to have the center channel's veneer be a perfect match for the LS's.
Hey Aaron,
I've put in an inquiry with the original source of the "Moho" veneer.
I'll let you guys know what I find out! :thumb:
Thanks,
Ruben
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The "idea" for an "LS Center" goes back YEARS!!! :P
Ruben
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I wonder if this would be a better match to the Mini's than the X-Voce :scratch: That is REALLY big, but I might be able to figure a way to make it work :) I'd still love a matching center for the Mini's but that's another thread altogether.
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aaron smithski - I am still trying to hunt down some of the 'moho' veneer to this day. So far it seems that there are Eastern Indian Laurel veneers that come close, but typically dont have the same coloring, cut pattern and sap stripe. If I can find some, it will be bought that instant. This website shows some with nearly the same coloring as what are speakers are, but most East indian laurel I have found is much darker... http://www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/laurel.htm
Hey Aaron,
I've put in an inquiry with the original source of the "Moho" veneer.
I'll let you guys know what I find out! :thumb:
Thanks,
Ruben
Yeah, I remember reading comments from Santiago on the Moho (where they source it, etc.) but I don't remember where it was -- probably on the defunct site but he does post here on Audiocircle too.
I've considered getting rid of the LS6's because of the center issue, but I've grown attached to them and would miss them if they were gone. They have a fairly impressive list of strengths. :)
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I may be interested depending on the final specs (I would think ported would match better?), and of course, also keeping the final price as a major factor - I already have 3 centers. :oops:
Be nice to see what a rendering looks like, and of course, impressions on how well it matches the LS6'es (as opposed to the x-voce).
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I should be able to match all of the standard veneer and finish options that the LS's came in. Of course, I still need to hear back on the Moho before I can comfirm that one.
Thanks,
Ruben
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Beatcoaster - thanks for posting this!
Sorry to hear the Trinity didn't match with your LS6s so well. Glad you and Scott were able to test this out for me - saved myself (and Hugh) time and money for sending me an A-Stock unit to test and return!
Danny's idea for the LS Center sounds great!
So who is going to be building these? I need one in a nice Piano Black please :) Any idea on what one of these would cost?
Thanks!
Randy (Vancouver, WA)
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Awesome!! I am beyond eager to hear what you find out Ruben...like waiting by the keyboard pressing F5 excited..;)
Hey Aaron,
I've put in an inquiry with the original source of the "Moho" veneer.
I'll let you guys know what I find out! :thumb:
Thanks,
Ruben
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Yes. Really Interested. Kit and cabinet :thumb:
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So who is going to be building these? I need one in a nice Piano Black please :)
Hi Randy,
You will be able to order the "LS-C" directly through Fallen Enclosures as a complete ready to play unit.
Piano Black will certainly be one of the finish options.
Matching "X" style stands will be available as well.
I will not be ready to provide pricing info until after I have one "on the books".
Thanks!
Ruben
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For six of the M-130X woofers and a Neo3pdr you are looking at $297.50 Then some PSP ports, tube connectors, wiring, crossover parts etc, it is likely to end up in the $450 range give or take.
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You wonder if Large Companies, with so many people could have customer support and discussions like this, with everyone putting in their ideas and coming out with something that most likely will help a large group.. This is the reason I buy from smaller companies with true consumer support. I don't even mind not getting free shipping... ha.. Maybe DR will get a facebook page next, or tweet.... Thanks Danny.
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For six of the M-130X woofers and a Neo3pdr you are looking at $297.50 Then some PSP ports, tube connectors, wiring, crossover parts etc, it is likely to end up in the $450 range give or take.
That's a great price for a center to match the LS'. If it comes even close to that I think you're going to make A LOT of people really happy!!
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The problem (one of them any way) is that it is not practical to use the Neo 8 as single units.
I know a side laying array would be really cool too but in order to keep a good horizontal coverage you have to keep the acoustic centers really close to each other or the woofers just cancel each other out on the horizontal plane. This is why the N3S works pretty well as a center channel as the acoustic centers are close.
And using the Neo 3 pdr works really well. And the N3S matches the LS's really well too.
If you guys want I can do something like the N3S but in a small array. How about six M-130X woofers in an array with the Neo 3 pdr in the middle. I can then cross only the two center woofers over to the tweeter to keep the acoustic centers close. Then I can allow the outer four woofers to share the load in the bottom end only.
I think I could make that work. How does that sound?
That would be 48.75" long and 8" tall. Ports can be used in the rear or it could be sealed.
Sounds a bit like the ol' RA8! Just pdr instead of ribbon... very cool.
Could be 2 channel alternative as well...
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_13_1/raw-acoustics-ra-8-speakers-2-2006-part-1.html
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Sounds a bit like the ol' RA8! Just pdr instead of ribbon... very cool.
Could be 2 channel alternative as well...
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_13_1/raw-acoustics-ra-8-speakers-2-2006-part-1.html
That was a great speaker, but that one was a true 3-way design.
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Maybe DR will get a facebook page next, or tweet.... Thanks Danny.
I do have a FB acount that I use only on a personal level and am a bit garded as to my friends.
However, I have really been considering a GR Research facebook acount.
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Danny, Just a GR FB account.
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I do have a FB acount that I use only on a personal level and am a bit garded as to my friends.
Very wise, you never know what creepy people might want to be your friend :green:
Scott
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Hi Randy,
You will be able to order the "LS-C" directly through Fallen Enclosures as a complete ready to play unit.
Piano Black will certainly be one of the finish options.
Matching stands will be available as well.
I will not be ready to provide pricing info until after I have one "on the books".
Thanks!
Ruben
Thanks. Please let me know when this will be "orderable".
Randy
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Thanks. Please let me know when this will be "orderable".
Randy
Will do.
Ruben
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Attention DIY'ers!!! :D
LS-C DIY options will include:
The enclosure by itself ready for kit installation.
The enclosure by itself ready for veneer/paint.
Flat Pack.
Edit: I just recieved a PM asking about a "baffle only" option, so let's add that to the DIY list as well. :thumb:
Baffle only. (with, or without grille)
Thanks!
Ruben
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Okay, I just hooked up 6 of the M-130X woofers in a series parallel configuration of two groups of three, then by-passed the outer four with a 47uF cap value (I might could use a 56uF, 62uF, or 75uF value there) and added a typical inductor and cap of a second order crossover. The impedance sweep showed it to be pretty good and the minimum to be in the 6.9 to 7 ohm range. So no problem with that configuration.
Power handling would be high just like the LS's.
Now if enough people want one, and you can get Ruben to not only build you enclosures, but get him to send me an enclosure to do the network design with, then we can make it happen.
Keep in mind too that it will be nearly 49" wide.
Okay, who wants one?
Danny,
What about using the same M-165x drivers that are in the LS as opposed to the M-130x?
I know you probably chose those to keep the size of this beast down, but in reality, if you already own a not-so-svelte speaker like LS-6/9's, what's an additional 1.25" in height and another 7.5" in width? :icon_lol:
EDIT: Just noticed the Vas is 140% larger for the 6.5 over the 5.25. :o
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Danny,
What about using the same M-165x drivers that are in the LS as opposed to the M-130x?
I know you probably chose those to keep the size of this beast down, but in reality, if you already own a not-so-svelte speaker like LS-6/9's, what's an additional 1.25" in height and another 7.5" in width? :icon_lol:
EDIT: Just noticed the Vas is 140% larger for the 6.5 over the 5.25. :o
The LS's use a custom built woofer just for that application. They are not M-165X woofers. In fact the parameters are very different. The LS woofers are also a 3 ohm woofer. Using larger drivers would also push the acoustics center further apart and really hurt the off axis response compared to using the smaller M-130X woofers.
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The LS's use a custom built woofer just for that application. They are not M-165X woofers. In fact the parameters are very different. The LS woofers are also a 3 ohm woofer. Using larger drivers would also push the acoustics center further apart and really hurt the off axis response compared to using the smaller M-130X woofers.
Gotcha -- that's what happens when one assumes.
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I have to ask, but might this speaker also work as a pair of fronts built to look more like the OB7 MTMWWWW set up (incase u cant bring the speakers forward enough for the OB)?
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I have to ask, but might this speaker also work as a pair of fronts built to look more like the OB7 MTMWWWW set up (incase u cant bring the speakers forward enough for the OB)?
Yes, yes they would.
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Yes, yes they would.
Ahh, expanding the possibilities here ... This could really be a winner, 2 different styles sort of a Mini LS, but not an LS. :thumb:
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I find myself wondering how many ports are u thinking? If its just 2, I could imagine people forward porting (may be of course) with a port at each end (might work the same for the floorstanders too ( again, may be?)) if there's not enough room for rear?
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Ruben, I hope to build the cabinet myself but will just need some pieces of "moho" veneer to get it dialed - this is gonna be a fun project! I just sold two ULW-10" drivers and two Marantz MA-500U's that have been sitting in the closet to begin my LS-C fund :)
Attention DIY'ers!!! :D
LS-C DIY options will include:
The enclosure by itself ready for kit installation.
The enclosure by itself ready for veneer/paint.
Flat Pack.
Edit: I just recieved a PM asking about a "baffle only" option, so let's add that to the DIY list as well. :thumb:
Baffle only. (with, or without grille)
Thanks!
Ruben
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Ruben, I hope to build the cabinet myself but will just need some pieces of "moho" veneer to get it dialed - this is gonna be a fun project! I just sold two ULW-10" drivers and two Marantz MA-500U's that have been sitting in the closet to begin my LS-C fund :)
Oh no you sold those drivers? I was just thinking about them this morning :duh: Oh well, more money toward your new Center fund!!
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Ruben, I hope to build the cabinet myself but will just need some pieces of "moho" veneer to get it dialed - this is gonna be a fun project! I just sold two ULW-10" drivers and two Marantz MA-500U's that have been sitting in the closet to begin my LS-C fund :)
Hey BC,
Sounds Good! :thumb:
As soon as I hear back on the Moho I let you know. One way, or another, I'm sure I can find us a source.
Ruben
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Oh no you sold those drivers? I was just thinking about them this morning :duh: Oh well, more money toward your new Center fund!!
Hey Scott,
Doesn't Kevin have some of those drivers on hand?
Ruben
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I know, sorry Skeet, but you could order better with your PE discount anyway! I'm sure there is a load of those drivers floating around.
Oh no you sold those drivers? I was just thinking about them this morning :duh: Oh well, more money toward your new Center fund!!
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Nice, I'm excited!
Hey BC,
Sounds Good! :thumb:
As soon as I hear back on the Moho I let you know. One way, or another, I'm sure I can find us a source.
Ruben
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ULW-10" drivers
I think I even hae a few of those drivers laying around.
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Hey Scott,
Doesn't Kevin have some of those drivers on hand?
Ruben
Ruben,
Probably, but Mike lives 15 minutes from me so I could save on freight and he was gonna make me a pretty sweet deal on them :) Its all good though!
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I know, sorry Skeet, but you could order better with your PE discount anyway! I'm sure there is a load of those drivers floating around.
No worries, its not like I have a place to use it, but I still wanted it :lol:
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I think I even hae a few of those drivers laying around.
Really? I might be interested if the price is right. I don't need one but I have a spare 500w amp that was in the ULW-10 laying around so the EQ is right for those drivers. I'd be interested if I could use that amp with another driver though. I'll start another thread so this thread doesn't get too OT.
Scott
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Yes!!! FINALLY an LS Center!! WOOHOO!!
Will these be available only in kit form? Or will buying a ready built (plug & play) speaker be an option??
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Yes!!! FINALLY an LS Center!! WOOHOO!!
Hi Eric,
It's been a long time coming, hasn't it? :D
Will these be available only in kit form? Or will buying a ready built (plug & play) speaker be an option??
See reply #31 on page 2 of this thread. :thumb:
Ruben
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Danny i have been assuming that this will also be the perfect speaker for the OB/7. Am i correct?
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Really? I might be interested if the price is right.
How about $35 each?
Will these be available only in kit form? Or will buying a ready built (plug & play) speaker be an option??
I have to stick with selling them only as kits so I don't compete with any of the companies that I do design work for.
But I think Ruben will accommodate you your assembly needs.
Danny i have been assuming that this will also be the perfect speaker for the OB/7. Am i correct?
Yes, it would.
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Hi Eric,
It's been a long time coming, hasn't it? :D
See reply #31 on page 2 of this thread. :thumb:
Ruben
Definitely has brotha! Just glad its finally becoming a reality. :green:
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I have to stick with selling them only as kits so I don't compete with any of the companies that I do design work for.
But I think Ruben will accommodate you your assembly needs.
That'll work too! :thumb:
Thanks Danny! :D
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Yes, it would.
Given proper clearance, the modified OB-7 Plus would be the "ideal" OB-7 CC, wouldn't it?
Assuming a rear ported LS Center, what would you recommend as the optimal distance from the wall behind?
If there wasn't the option of pulling the CC out into the room and it had to be placed within a few inches of the wall behind, would you recommend the N3S as a viable alternative for the OB-7's?
Thanks!
Ruben
(http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z387/Outofthewoods/center_channel_003-1.jpg)
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^^^^^^^^
:notworthy: :drool: :rock: :dance:
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Given proper clearance, the modified OB-7 would be the "ideal" OB-7 CC, wouldn't it?
Assuming a rear ported LS Center, what would you recommend as the optimal distance from the wall behind?
If there wasn't the option of pulling the CC out into the room and it had to be placed within a few inches of the wall behind, would you recommend the N3S as a viable alternative for the OB-7's?
Thanks!
Ruben
(http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z387/Outofthewoods/center_channel_003-1.jpg)
Is this the box for the new center? Is it going to be OB for the center drivers? Looks like a giant X-Voce ...
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No, that's the OB-7 Plus, Minus the Plus. :green:
It's known as the "OB-7 Center".
I posted it in response to Danny's answer to Nick about pairing the LS Center with OB-7's.
Sorry for the confusion.
Ruben
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No, that's the OB-7 Plus, Minus the Plus. :green:
I posted it in response to Danny's answer to Nick about pairing the LS Center with OB-7's.
Sorry for the confusion.
Ruben
Ahh got ya! I was getting really excited to have a new bigger/badder X-Voce! Still interested in this though :)
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Ahh got ya! I was getting really excited to have a new bigger/badder X-Voce! Still interested in this though :)
Actually Scott, that IS a bigger/badder version of the X-Voce! But instead of the Encore tweeter, it uses the BG Neo3. :thumb:
Here's the OB-7 Plus product page.
http://www.gr-research.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=121
Delete the subwoofer section and you get the "OB-7 Center."
Ruben
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If you have OB-7's as left and right mains, and you have room to pull the center channel a good distance out from the wall then this version of the OB-7 would be really ideal.
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If you have OB-7's as left and right mains, and you have room to pull the center channel a good distance out from the wall then this version of the OB-7 would be really ideal.
My Voce isn't really far out but still a decent amount. I've found the back reflection to be extremely spot on for imaging with the center of my TV. I LOVE the OB sound so maybe an OB7-C would be a better match to my Mini's :scratch:
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The minute you responded with the idea of a new center I shot you an email offering to build the test enclosure. Check your email! :green:
As soon as I get the dimensions from Danny, I'll get started. :thumb:
Ruben
Have you started yet? :icon_lol:
How does this work btw? Does Danny send you detailed cabinet plans or just rough dimensions?
Thanks
Randy
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lol, ya chip chop you guys - it's already been a week, and I got money burning a hole in my pocket! :icon_lol:
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glad to hear that some progress is made in this direction........i am currently using xvoce........with regards to the finish choices........i have that starry night black obsidian.........is this finish possible.......plus any possibility of matching stands to go with the beast ?
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Welcome to AC soundofrockets.
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thanks Danny.....i am big fan of your creations...........
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i have that starry night black obsidian.........is this finish possible
Absolutely!
I have the better part of a gallon of that EXACT paint sitting in the shop. :thumb:
plus any possibility of matching stands to go with the beast ?
Yes, Sir. I already have some rough sketches drawn up.
Your LS-9's have the rectangle "floating" bases don't they?
Welcome to AC! :D
Ruben
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yes they do........but the 6s have the X base........just plain old piano black for the 6s
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yes they do........but the 6s have the X base........just plain old piano black for the 6s
Cool. I plan to make stands that will compliment both base styles.
Ruben
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This is really exciting news for us LS owners.
I can't wait to see the finished product.
I should probably put my X-voce for sale and start saving some $.
Thanks Danny and Ruben for making this happen. :thumb:
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I got a feeling there will be a lot of x-voce's for sale - just wish/hope there is a market for them!
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Satin rosewood for me.
Any recommendations for surround speakers to go with these and LS-6's?
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The N3 (http://gr-research.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=151) is being used by someone else as surrounds for his LS speakers. It uses the same drivers that are going to be used for the LS-Center.
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Hey everybody, here are the box plans: http://www.gr-research.com/pdf/ls-c.pdf
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There are a few things to consider when looking for a surround speaker. Danny much prefers the Omni-directional approach of the AV1-RS because it gives you a diffuse sound field with good frequency response throughout the room.
I have personally had mini monitors for surrounds and disliked it because they were just too directional. You knew the speaker was there this is not what surround sound is about. The other approaches di-poll etc just project sound everywhere and you get very inconstant frequency response in the room. My current surround speakers are omni-directional but not nearly as good as the AV1-RS however I much prefer them to other speakers I have used.
Ok now that we have established the merit of Omni-directional AV1-RS for surround sound let’s consider some aspects of this particular speaker. The choice to use a soft dome vs. the Neo is probably driven by the fact that the soft dome will have better vertical off axis frequency response. Given that it is above your head this is important and likely the reason Danny has never created a Neo Surround speaker. (I’m guessing here and could be totally wrong). Now let’s look at the driver configuration. I know you guys love multiple drivers, but a surround speaker mounted on the wall/ceiling has no baffle step correction and thus a single mid-woofer is all that is needed to keep up with the efficiency of either the soft dome or Neo tweeter. So less being more the AV1-RS is looking like the best candidate thus far for a number of reasons. The final reason is this. Look at this graph of where music is played.
(http://)
Now look at where the AV-1RS is crossed roughly 1.8k. A lot of what you are listening to is coming from the mid-woof which is in the same family as the line arrays. Meaning it will fit very well. The tweeter is mostly adding ambiance.
I don’t think the AV-1RS always gets the respect it deserves. The Rodney Dangerfield of Danny’s speakers. Lol Over the years I have come to conclude it must be perfect for its intended job because Danny seems loath to mess with it.
For reference here is a link to the AV-1RS http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=10915.0
Again I could be totally wrong about all this…
Cheers,
Robert
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Hey everybody, here are the box plans: http://www.gr-research.com/pdf/ls-c.pdf
Now THAT is a center worthy of the title LS-C. :thumb:
I'll have one out to you early next week!
Ruben
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Getting closer! :thumb:
This one is being shipped to GR Research tomorrow evening.
(http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z387/Outofthewoods/LS-Center2.jpg)
(http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z387/Outofthewoods/LS-Center1.jpg)
(http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z387/Outofthewoods/LS-Center.jpg)
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Nice Ruben! That is big, but doesn't look too big. I like the comparison to the Voce (which I have).
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It extends past the X-Voce by 4.5" on either side and is about 1" deeper.
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Getting closer! :thumb:
This one is being shipped to GR Research tomorrow evening.
(http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z387/Outofthewoods/LS-Center2.jpg)
(http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z387/Outofthewoods/LS-Center1.jpg)
(http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z387/Outofthewoods/LS-Center.jpg)
I'll take one in Rosewood please. :)
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Very Nice :green:
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Sick!
Ruben, you do such nice work.
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That looks terrific!
One question: Where are the speaker wire connections? :P
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That looks terrific!
One question: Where are the speaker wire connections? :P
You run them straight through the ports. It gives you a direct connection to the crossover board so less connections equals better sound. Jeeze, you think everyone would know this.
:lol:
Agreed, Ruben you screwed up! LOL!
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Dang Ruben, you were quick with the box.
You run them straight through the ports.
Actually for measuring and testing the crossover during the design stage, I do just drop the wiring of the drivers straight out the ports, and work with the crossover parts externally.
Once it is completed then we can drill holes for tube connectors anywhere on the back of it and internally mount the crossover through the woofer holes.
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Dang Ruben, you were quick with the box.
Actually for measuring and testing the crossover during the design stage, I do just drop the wiring of the drivers straight out the ports, and work with the crossover parts externally.
Once it is completed then we can drill holes for tube connectors anywhere on the back of it and internally mount the crossover through the woofer holes.
Man, even in my sarcasm I was right :thumb: LOL! Good to know Danny. Its not that much bigger than my current X-Voce and would just hang off the sides of my ET Center, I could probably swing it :)
Scott
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I bet an LCR setup of those would be awesome! :drool:
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I bet an LCR setup of those would be awesome! :drool:
I'd just have to move two woofers from one end to the bottom. It would be just like an OB-7 but without the open baffle part. And it would be a 2.5 way design instead of a 3 way.
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I'd just have to move two woofers from one end to the bottom. It would be just like an OB-7 but without the open baffle part. And it would be a 2.5 way design instead of a 3 way.
So is this center going to be a 2.5 way? Did you already say that and I just missed it :scratch:
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So is this center going to be a 2.5 way? Did you already say that and I just missed it :scratch:
Time to cut back on the caffeine. :duh: :lol:
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So is this center going to be a 2.5 way? Did you already say that and I just missed it :scratch:
Yes, but not in the traditional sense. There is no paralleling of low frequency drivers.
What I am doing keeps all of them in phase and all drivers play the bottom ranges together, but only the center drivers play all the way up to the tweeter.
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Yes, but not in the traditional sense. There is no paralleling of low frequency drivers.
What I am doing keeps all of them in phase and all drivers play the bottom ranges together, but only the center drivers play all the way up to the tweeter.
Nice, that's what I thought would happen. That's similar to how the X-Voce works correct or is that an actual 3-way? I'm dusting off the cobwebs right now and with the AV123 site totally down, getting that info isn't as easy as it used to be :)
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I'd just have to move two woofers from one end to the bottom. It would be just like an OB-7 but without the open baffle part. And it would be a 2.5 way design instead of a 3 way.
OR...Keep the current layout, stack it vertically on a servo sub and call it the LS-C Plus. :P
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LS C Plus no, we should incorporate two servo 12's in to the LS series... that would be cool and heavy..... literal..like 250 lbs...
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So how long before I can have one these sitting on top of my studiotech stand?? :)
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That's similar to how the X-Voce works correct or is that an actual 3-way?
The X-Voce is a true three way.
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The X-Voce is a true three way.
Ok couldn't remember. Thanks for clearing it up.
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Amazing how quickly you guys were able to make this happen! Thanks again Danny and Ruben.
Ruben, have you weighed the center yet, as I'm wondering if it will be a lot heavier than the X-voce?
Can't wait to read Danny's thoughts on the sound of the LS center.
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Amazing how quickly you guys were able to make this happen! Thanks again Danny and Ruben.
Ruben, have you weighed the center yet, as I'm wondering if it will be a lot heavier than the X-voce?
Can't wait to read Danny's thoughts on the sound of the LS center.
It should be substantially heavier than the X-Voce. You have that large portion in the center of the Voce that is open, there is more mass in both width and depth and more drivers. I bet it weighs at least a good 20lbs more than the Voce :scratch:
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Amazing how quickly you guys were able to make this happen! Thanks again Danny and Ruben.
You're welcome. :D
Ruben, have you weighed the center yet, as I'm wondering if it will be a lot heavier than the X-voce?
As it sits, the LS-C weighs approx. 10lbs. more than the X-Voce.
Ruben
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Thanks for the information Ruben.
I'm sure the LS center will look great in all of your finishes but I can't wait to see how it will look with the rosewood finish.
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Thanks for the information Ruben.
I'm sure the LS center will look great in all of your finishes but I can't wait to see how it will look with the rosewood finish.
+1 :thumb:
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Looks great Ruben!
Any luck getting ahold of Santiago regarding tracking down the moho veneer?
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You're welcome. :D
As it sits, the LS-C weighs approx. 10lbs. more than the X-Voce.
Ruben
I would have thought it would have weighed more. Not a problem, just did my guesstimating wrong :)
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Danny, could you comment on how this new design would compare to a LS9 mounted horizontally as a center? Specifically regarding the horizontal dispersion.
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That looks amazing Ruben! Is it actually white or is that the primer again?
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Danny, could you comment on how this new design would compare to a LS9 mounted horizontally as a center? Specifically regarding the horizontal dispersion.
Completely different!
An LS-9 on its side is not a very ideal center channel.
The tweeter line length is 70.875" long. for it to maintain an even response you need to stay above the first tweeter and below the last one. In other words you have about a 54" range where the response is the same. Above that or below it and the highs start to drop out of it. And if you are outside the length of the tweeter line then there basically is no highs.
So if you laid it on its side you'd basically have to sit right in front of it +/- about 2 feet each way.
The new LS-C has a wide horizontal coverage area just like a standard N3S kit. So you'll have the great off axis response of a narrow (5/8" wide) playing surface element of the Neo 3 pdr. And in this case, the deep back cup Neo 3 pdr.
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Ruben....those look great! Excellent work.
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I know what thread Danny was just looking at:
Line Array Center Channel (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=91764.msg910284;topicseen#new)
:lol:
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I know what thread Danny was just looking at:
Line Array Center Channel (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=91764.msg910284;topicseen#new)
:lol:
:nono: :lol:
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Considering how this is really the first thread of its kind here regarding a center channel for matching line sources, and considering the enthusiastic interest and multiple responses, to then see a thread like that pop up as a follow up, and in all such vagueness... :roll: I admit that it is indeed kind of funny.
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Woohoo! Amazing work and in such great time too! Kudos to you for taking the lead on this and making it happen Danny.
Ruben, that box looks fantastic! I second the question from a few pages back - any word on the moho veneer?
Nice work guys!
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I know what thread Danny was just looking at:
Line Array Center Channel (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=91764.msg910284;topicseen#new)
:lol:
Ha!! I sense there has been someone following this thread?!! :icon_twisted:
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Yeah, yeah, ha, ha. But lets not make this any worse than it is. It is better to just ignore stuff like that. So Beatcoaster if you don't mind could you please edit your last post to sound a little nicer? I wouldn't want to provoke any unnecessary responses.
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Considering how this is really the first thread of its kind here regarding a center channel for matching line sources, and considering the enthusiastic interest and multiple responses, to then see a thread like that pop up as a follow up, and in all such vagueness... :roll: I admit that it is indeed kind of funny.
You know that you have arrived when there are others hitching a ride. Kind of reminds me of the old line array discussion days many, many moons ago on the MadBoard. :D
Dave
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Looks great Ruben!
Any luck getting ahold of Santiago regarding tracking down the moho veneer?
Thanks Aaron!
Still waiting to hear back.
Ruben
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That looks amazing Ruben! Is it actually white or is that the primer again?
Thanks Kristian!
It's just primer.
Ruben
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Ruben....those look great! Excellent work.
Thanks Chad!
Ruben
BTW, Your enclosures are scheduled to leave here on Wednesday. :D
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Mindless banter - just give us the plans
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Mindless banter - just give us the plans
Interesting :scratch:
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ATTN: Future LS-C Owners. :green:
I have a few orders to get out of the way before I can start LS-C production. Assuming I don't hit any "snags" I should be ready to move forward within the next 2 weeks.
I will start by building one in Satin Rosewood and one in Piano Black. Once I get those two builds under my belt I'll be able to provide pricing and lead times across the board.
Thanks again!
Ruben
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Mindless banter - just give us the plans
Not sure what the problem is hesster, but the "plans" were posted a few pages back.
Hey everybody, here are the box plans: http://www.gr-research.com/pdf/ls-c.pdf
Ruben
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Not sure what the problem is hesster, but the "plans" were posted a few pages back.
Ruben
Maybe he just missed that post with all the "mindless banter" that surrounds it. :lol:
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Maybe he just missed that post with all the "mindless banter" that surrounds it. :lol:
Maybe so! :lol:
Ruben
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Maybe so! :lol:
Ruben
But your cabinet pictures make it all worth it,, IMHO! :thumb:
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But your cabinet pictures make it all worth it,, IMHO! :thumb:
Then let the "mindless banter" continue! :thumb:
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Love you Guys - had a few too many beers that night. Missed Danny's Post among the pages of "enthusiam".
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No worries hesster!
I had a feeling that was the case. :green:
Looking forward to seeing your LS-C build. :thumb:
Ruben
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We got the ball rolling on the Moho veneer! :dance:
Just waiting to hear back about shipping clearance.
I'll let you know how it pans out as soon as I hear back.
Thanks,
Ruben
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I've been asked weather or not I plan to build the LS-C to mirror the shape of LS 6/9's with a 3/4" Round-Over on the short vertical edges. Although it would simplify the build somewhat, it would absolutely compromise performance due to added surface reflections in the upper ranges of the tweeter. There are also edge diffraction issues to consider due to the abrupt edge.
I will happily build them in whatever shape or finish you'd like, but keep in mind that a 3/4" R.O. on the top and bottom edge is optimum.
Thanks!
Ruben
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OK, I gotta ask, has anybody actually heard one (or for that matter, a pair) of these things, may be even plotted a response or several, may be racked it up against the N3S or N3's or the OB7's to give us a better idea of what we have here?
:D
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OK, I gotta ask, has anybody actually heard one (or for that matter, a pair) of these things, may be even plotted a response or several, may be racked it up against the N3S or N3's or the OB7's to give us a better idea of what we have here?
:D
I know these drivers pretty well. I don't see any issue with creating a snooth response out of them.
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Danny - how is development of the LS Center kit going?
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Danny - how is development of the LS Center kit going?
+1 :D
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I know these drivers pretty well. I don't see any issue with creating a snooth response out of them.
Haha, I dont doubt that or yourself for a sec Danny :) Still curious about the finer (or bigger :) ) details though :)
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Any updates fellas?? :thumb:
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Hey edog,
I know Danny has a lot to get done before Axpona. http://www.axpona.com/
So, I don't know how much he has been able to work on it these past 2 weeks?
As for me, I'm ready to go! :thumb:
Ruben
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Hey edog,
I know Danny has a lot to get done before Axpona. http://www.axpona.com/
So, I don't know how much he has been able to work on it these past 2 weeks?
As for me, I'm ready to go! :thumb:
Ruben
Thanks for the info bro! :)
Can you PM me a price for a cabinet (shipped to 92336) in a satin rosewood finish? ;) :thumb:
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I know Danny has a lot to get done before Axpona.
I can't find GR Research listed as an exhibitor. Are they sharing a room with someone else?
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I am there supporting one of my clients, Carnegie Acoustics.
-
That new speaker must put on one amazing show.
-
So how much room does the LS Center need behind it to work properly? For those too close to a wall, can the LS Center be designed with a sealed option, or is an N3S the best way to go in that case?
BTW, I'm using an X-Voce center with my LS-6's, and built and use a pair of N3S speakers as side surrounds. I actually like my X-Voce, but could always use a new project to do if I can improve my system.
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Hey edog,
I know Danny has a lot to get done before Axpona. http://www.axpona.com/
So, I don't know how much he has been able to work on it these past 2 weeks?
As for me, I'm ready to go! :thumb:
Ruben
Yeah please also send me a PM with a price on a satin rosewood LS-C to zip code 93110 Rueben thanks
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Thanks for the info bro! :)
Can you PM me a price for a cabinet (shipped to 92336) in a satin rosewood finish? ;) :thumb:
Yeah please also send me a PM with a price on a satin rosewood LS-C to zip code 93110 Rueben thanks
Sending PM's now. :thumb:
Ruben
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Sending PM's now. :thumb:
Ruben
Hey Rueben, please send the PM and quote the complete finished version and cabinet only in the satin rosewood to 93110. I received an error message earlier thanks!
-
Welcome to AC, RJH65.
-
Sending PM's now. :thumb:
Ruben
Replied :thumb:
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Hey Rueben, please send the PM and quote the complete finished version and cabinet only in the satin rosewood to 93110. I received an error message earlier thanks!
Sorry about that!
Trying again now.
Replied :thumb:
Right back at ya! :thumb:
Thanks,
Ruben
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Hi Ruben,
I sent you a PM requesting a price for a LS-C in satin Rosewood to 99114.
Thanks
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Sorry about that!
Trying again now.
Right back at ya! :thumb:
Thanks,
Ruben
Sorry Rueben, by chance do you have a picture of the magnetic grill attached to the LS-C that you could post here or through a PM? I am trying to look at creative financing to see if I can make this thing happen thanks Ruben!!
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Hi Ruben,
I sent you a PM requesting a price for a LS-C in satin Rosewood to 99114.
Thanks
Right back at ya!
Ruben
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Sorry Rueben, by chance do you have a picture of the magnetic grill attached to the LS-C that you could post here or through a PM? I am trying to look at creative financing to see if I can make this thing happen thanks Ruben!!
No pics yet.
Just sent you an email.
Thanks!
Ruben
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Hi Ruben,
I sent you an email about the LS-C in satin rosewood. Just curious if you are currently building these or not. Waited a long time for a matching center channel to the LS6's.
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Hi tigger,
The LS-C kit isn't available just yet, but as soon as it is, I WILL be building complete units.
I'll add you to the LS-C queue and send you an update when I'm ready to start building them out. :thumb:
Thanks,
Ruben
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Bump!
Any update fellas????
-
Now that I have the Atlanta show behind me, I can get back on some of these projects. I really look forward to this one.
-
How about a 2 week BUMP :green:
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How about a 2 week BUMP :green:
I have just one more project that I have to get out of the way first and then I can be on this one.
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This is the first thing that has made me excited about this hobby in a long time. Look forward to seeing the finished product and pricing. Here's a vote for african ebony, or whatever AV123 called their veneer. I would go check the website to see exactly what it was called, but . . .
-
It was called African Macassar Ebony and had (if I remember right) three distinct variations - a mostly dark brown, a light brown/dark brown almost tiger stripe sort of look, and a grain that matched the dark brown, but with a deep red tint to it.
. . . now what this veneer actually was, where it was sourced, and how to reasonably match any of the three finishes. . . might be better to stick with black. . . ;)
-
I'd say mine is more the tiger-striped variety. But black would probably be just fine for under the screen.
-
Yes this is the first thing i've been excited about in a while as well.
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OK Guys - my LS Center purchase is fully funded so please give me some news soon before something comes up!
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OK Guys - my LS Center purchase is fully funded so please give me some news soon before something comes up!
It's coming, it's coming.
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I am working on this today.
And I must say, Ruben's box is of outstanding quality. I can't even find a seam on it.
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I am working on this today.
And I must say, Ruben's box is of outstanding quality. I can't even find a seam on it.
Excellent! :thumb:
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I am working on this today.
And I must say, Ruben's box is of outstanding quality. I can't even find a seam on it.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=47455)
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Thanks Danny!
The timing couldn't be better...I am finally getting caught up and back on schedule. :hyper: These past few weeks have been hectic!!!
Rdog, you can see pics of the enclosure on page 5 of this thread. :thumb:
Ruben
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Rdog, you can see pics of the enclosure on page 5 of this thread. :thumb:
Thanks Ruben. :duh: :thumb:
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I'm so happy this is moving forward for everyone. Within the past months I have found my wife and I are having our first child, and subsequently found out we are having twins, and then found out we are having a boy and a girl (fraternal)...We are super excited, but it's a little bittersweet, as my funds are obviously directed elsewhere for a good amount of time!! hehe, I still can't wait to see this speaker and dream for it one day! :) :wink:
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Ruben, you have PM.
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I'm so happy this is moving forward for everyone. Within the past months I have found my wife and I are having our first child, and subsequently found out we are having twins, and then found out we are having a boy and a girl (fraternal)...We are super excited, but it's a little bittersweet, as my funds are obviously directed elsewhere for a good amount of time!! hehe, I still can't wait to see this speaker and dream for it one day! :) :wink:
That's fantastic! Congratulations Beatcoster!!!
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I'm so happy this is moving forward for everyone. Within the past months I have found my wife and I are having our first child, and subsequently found out we are having twins, and then found out we are having a boy and a girl (fraternal)...We are super excited, but it's a little bittersweet, as my funds are obviously directed elsewhere for a good amount of time!! hehe, I still can't wait to see this speaker and dream for it one day! :) :wink:
Wow! Congrats!
You can come down and listen to mine once I get them :)
Randy
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I have been working on this the last few days and I think I have it all worked out. Time for a little listening now.
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Very cool! Keep us posted bud! :)
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I'm excited. :)
-
As it stands the balance is real good and really smooth. Most of the workload is handled by the two center woofers, and horizontal off axis looks pretty good. I'd say you have a good coverage range out to 20 degrees off axis each way. Seating outside that range will notice a softening in the 1.5kHz to 2kHz range from the horizontal canceling effect of the two center woofers. Because the four outer woofers are only playing the lowest ranges they only show about 1db drop off in output 30 degrees off axis and about 3db of drop off at 40 degrees off axis (at least above 200Hz).
So this center channel will have a minimum of side wall reflections in the lower ranges.
Looks to me like at about 40Hz and down the workload of the woofers is pretty even. Above that and the center two woofers start really handling the bulk of the load. So on most bass notes they are the ones really working the hardest. With 6 woofers sharing the work load down low, power handling is pretty high. I beat on these things pretty hard playing music with heavy bass tracks and the woofers eased right through it.
For most music it will appear as if the outer woofers are hardly even working at all.
I tried all 6 woofers as M-130X's but the impedance dropped a little too low. I also tried using M-130/16's as the centers and standard M-130's on the four outside positions. This made the output a little heavy in the bottom end. I then tried using M-130/16's as the inside woofer and all M-130X woofers on the outside. This gave the best balance and used the most simplistic crossover.
I also tuned the box to 36Hz. This was a range where the woofers should be a good 6 to 8db down (by the numbers). So if this center channel is set up as close as 4 to 6 inches from the wall behind it then it will add a good 3db or more of output in that range. That plus the collective gain from all six woofers could give most users an in room -3db in the mid 30's.
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Sounds good! :dance:
I'm ready to get to work...
Standing by for pricing. :hyper:
Ruben
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WOW! Sounds like a complete BEAST! :thumb:
-
Ruben's pics of this one is right here: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=91207.msg909653#msg909653
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Looks like parts cost total comes to $559.
-
Great!
Can't wait to get the first LS-C finished. :thumb:
Thanks,
Ruben
-
What do you guys think a fully assembled "ready-to-rock" LS-C speaker will sell for???
-
Hi Eric,
Depends on finish.
I can do something like the X-Voce and veneer the baffles only and finish the rest in a Satin Black. That would cut cost considerably for the veneered version and they would still look great!
You inquired about Satin Rosewood, correct?
Thanks,
Ruben
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Could ya quote me both? An LS-C with a full satin rosewood finish and also an "x-Voce style" satin rosewood LC-C?
Thanks man!!! :thumb:
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Ruben,
If you make them in piano black I would definitely be interested in buying one.
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Hi Ruben,
Sent you a PM requesting some prices for LS-C full satin rosewood and a X-voce type LS-C with satin rosewood face.
Thanks
-
Ruben,
If you make them in piano black I would definitely be interested in buying one.
Hi Jeremy,
Piano Black is definitely an option. :thumb:
Here's a few pics showing some Piano Black finish work that I've done for GR customers.
Thanks!
Ruben
(http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/1610/sfront.png) (http://img132.imageshack.us/i/sfront.png/)
(http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/1313/18595055.png) (http://img338.imageshack.us/i/18595055.png/)
(http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/4751/sbases.png) (http://img268.imageshack.us/i/sbases.png/)
(http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/1131/n3sfb1.png) (http://img175.imageshack.us/i/n3sfb1.png/)
(http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/3508/n3sfb.png) (http://img51.imageshack.us/i/n3sfb.png/)
(http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/6125/n3sfb2.png) (http://img51.imageshack.us/i/n3sfb2.png/)
(http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/6176/anotherone.png) (http://img149.imageshack.us/i/anotherone.png/)
(http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z387/Outofthewoods/IMG_3394tn.jpg)
(http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z387/Outofthewoods/ServoSubFlash1.jpg)
(http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z387/Outofthewoods/ports1.jpg)
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Hey Guys,
Now that we're ready to roll, I need to make a few calls to find the best veneer pricing. I'll get back with a number within the next day, or so.
Thanks,
Ruben
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Hey Guys,
Now that we're ready to roll, I need to make a few calls to find the best veneer pricing. I'll get back with a number within the next day, or so.
Thanks,
Ruben
You da man! (again) :thumb:
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Here is a measured response showing the individual drivers. Blue is the tweeter of coarse. Green is the inside two woofers. And Purple is the outside four woofers.
(http://www.gr-research.com/mis/individual%20drivers.jpg)
The whole lower range is about +/-1db.
-
very nice. i am interested in getting one or two of them.......what would be the price for
satin black
piano black
starry night obsidian black
any special packaging if more than one purchased ??
txs
-
Sound O,
Any louder and the walls will come tumbling down! YAYA!
I would absolutely want to hear your theater when the new center is installed.
Can I get an invite?
I have never heard dynamic range like the lobby sequence in The Matrix on your LS system. WOW!
Steve
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Rumor has it that Ruben has started a (3) unit production run (2 Piano Black, 1 Satin Black) this morning and they should be ready to prime by tomorrow evening :thumb:
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It's true! :D
However, I may go ahead and finish all three in Piano Black.
I'll likely have these guys primed tonight and ready for paint by the end of tomorrow.
Also, after some further thought, I've decided to build both styles of the veneered version before I price them. I tend to underestimate my labor and end up shorting myself. :duh: After this run is done I will start working on the veneered LS-C's.
Thanks,
Ruben
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very nice. i am interested in getting one or two of them.......what would be the price for
satin black
piano black
starry night obsidian black
any special packaging if more than one purchased ??
txs
PM Sent! :D
-
Had to hold off on priming until today.
I'll post pics of these three units coated in primer tonight.
Thanks,
Ruben
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Are any of those 3 up for sale? :green:
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Hey Eric,
I'm pretty sure they're all spoken for.
It's no biggie to start another run though. :thumb:
Are you considering going with Piano Black instead?
Ruben
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Can ya get me pricing on:
Piano black
Rosewood
Rosewood baffle (x-Voce style)
Hey Eric,
I'm pretty sure they're all spoken for.
It's no biggie to start another run though. :thumb:
Are you considering going with Piano Black instead?
Ruben
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A little late, but here they are. :D
Ruben
(http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z387/Outofthewoods/LS-CPrimer.jpg)
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Beauties!
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Cool lookin' aren't they!
Here are the build details:
Premium Super Refined MDF all around
1.25" Front baffle
.75" Top, bottom, sides, rear baffle and bracing
(6) .375" Cylindrical Neo Magnets for grille attachment
.75" Round-over along the length of the array which is designed to minimize surface reflections and edge diffraction.
All outside joinery selected to eliminate telegraphing
Bracing holes and inside edge of woofer cutouts rounded over to allow optimum air flow
(2) step sealing and priming process that's followed up with a premium two-stage Urethane finish
I think that about covers it! :D
I'll post more pics as I progress through the builds.
Thanks,
Ruben
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Hi Ruben,
Those cabinets look great. When you get a chance, can you give us a list of prices for the complete center speaker in each finish type, if there's differences, as well as the complete x-voce type complete center? Also, could you give us cabinet only prices too?
You already PM'd me with shipping cost.
Thanks
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any further progress ?? i would love to see the finished product.......thanks
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Was hoping to build this monster but need to settle on a x-voce for now. :|
Looking for a dark natural wood finish. thanks
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any further progress ?? i would love to see the finished product.......thanks
I've not been home for a couple of weeks so these were put on hold. :(
I'm spraying base and clear coats today, so I can post some painted pics tomorrow. As soon as the finish has cured sufficiently I'll get to work on refining the finish and then I can put up some hi-rez "glamor shots". :D
Thanks,
Ruben
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OK, a few questions:
1) I'm guessing that the graph that Danny posted earlier indicates a sensitivity in the 92-93 range - a bit more efficient than the LS6, and closer to the LS9. Is that correct?
2) Any idea when we will start seeing these in the wild? More specifically, some comments from end users?
I'm curious as to how they will fair compared to the X-Voce, more specifically, with modified x-overs on the X-voce? Trying to figure out which route to go - these, or upgrading my X-voce crossover.
(FYI - I have LS6'es with platinum Sonicap upgrade)
Gotta figure out which way to go! :scratch:
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Yes it is in the 92 to 93db range. It should match great with LS-6 or LS-9.
Keep in mind that a line source looses 3db per doubling of distance and a point source looses 6db per doubling of distance. So overall an LS-6 may still appear to have higher sensitivity.
These should be the best sonic match for the LS series speakers.
OK, a few questions:
1) I'm guessing that the graph that Danny posted earlier indicates a sensitivity in the 92-93 range - a bit more efficient than the LS6, and closer to the LS9. Is that correct?
2) Any idea when we will start seeing these in the wild? More specifically, some comments from end users?
I'm curious as to how they will fair compared to the X-Voce, more specifically, with modified x-overs on the X-voce? Trying to figure out which route to go - these, or upgrading my X-voce crossover.
(FYI - I have LS6'es with platinum Sonicap upgrade)
Gotta figure out which way to go! :scratch:
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Hi Guys,
Worlds FIRST Piano Black LS-C!!! :rock:
It needs to cure a bit more before I can "button up" the finish....I'll post more pictures when it's done. :thumb:
Best,
Ruben
(http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z387/Outofthewoods/LS-CPB.jpg)
(http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z387/Outofthewoods/LS-CPB1.jpg)
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Nice job man! She is a beautiful!! :thumb:
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:notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:
:notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:
:notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:
:notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:
:notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:
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Wow!
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I like! :D
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What do I have to do to get one? Please I beg you to make some rosewood ones next. Have money, will pay.
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Kits are in stock and ready to ship. :eyebrows: All you need is to get one of those nice looking cabinets from Ruben abd you're set.
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Hey, I still have the Gray primer test box here. I bet Ruben would make a good deal on it as is.
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Outofthewoods,
Are all those piano black LS-C's spoken for? If so, any plans to do more? Also, are you building them completely or just shipping the cabinets?
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Hey, I still have the Gray primer test box here. I bet Ruben would make a good deal on it as is.
Thanks Danny!
$350 plus shipping for the primed LS-C enclosure.
If you've not yet seen it, there are pictures of the enclosure posted in this thread a few pages back.
Thanks,
Ruben
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Outofthewoods,
Are all those piano black LS-C's spoken for? If so, any plans to do more? Also, are you building them completely or just shipping the cabinets?
Hi tigger,
If you need one and I don't have one on hand at the time I will build you one. I can supply the enclosure empty, or fully built out and ready to play.
Thanks,
Ruben
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What do I have to do to get one? Please I beg you to make some rosewood ones next. Have money, will pay.
Rosewood is next! :thumb:
Ruben
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Now we talking! Are they gonna have the piano or satin finish? Or both?? Got pricing on those yet?
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Nothing solid on Rosewood pricing just yet. Workin' on it!
Both Piano and Satin will be available. :eyebrows:
Ruben
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Ruben, you have PM. 8)
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Ditto! :wink:
Ruben
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The primed LS-C has been sold.
Thanks Doug!
Ruben
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Completed Piano Black LS-C enclosure. :thumb:
I didn't have a regular tweeter plate on hand so I borrowed the painted one from another pair of speakers that I'm selling. Once I have the actual kit installed I'll post a pic with an unpainted (by me) tweeter plate.
Ruben
(http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z387/Outofthewoods/LS-CPolish3.jpg)
(http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z387/Outofthewoods/LS-CPolish2.jpg)
(http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z387/Outofthewoods/LSCPolish1.jpg)
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:o Wow
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Yes! Wow comes immediatly to mind doesn't it?
How much time do you have in that baby?
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Are these plans going to be available as a DIY? Also, is this kit going to be shown on the GR Research website?
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Are these plans going to be available as a DIY? Also, is this kit going to be shown on the GR Research website?
These will be available as a DIY kit.
Things have finally started to slow down now and I am getting some of these projects out of the way that have been around for a while. So I may be able to get to the web site soon. I have all of the LS series kits to add and all of the X series kits to add.
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Thought I'd bump this to go with the "pictures" thread.
These have been available for awhile and I'm hoping that owners would share some of their impressions on them. I would really appreciate hearing from those who switched from x-voce to the LS-C, with respect to both music and HT.
Thanks
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Thought I'd bump this to go with the "pictures" thread.
These have been available for awhile and I'm hoping that owners would share some of their impressions on them. I would really appreciate hearing from those who switched from x-voce to the LS-C, with respect to both music and HT.
Thanks
Bueller?........ Bueller?.......... Bueller?...........
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I have the x-voce now
Bought the ls/c cabinet will be ordering no-rez and the kit soon
hopefully will have impressions soon
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Thought I'd bump this to go with the "pictures" thread.
These have been available for awhile and I'm hoping that owners would share some of their impressions on them. I would really appreciate hearing from those who switched from x-voce to the LS-C, with respect to both music and HT.
Thanks
Sorry - haven't listened to music yet with the LS-C but for HT it is EXCELLENT!!! I used to have a x-voce paired with my LS6s. The x-voce did an OK job but sounded somewhat out of place. With the LS-C the whole front end feels very solid and project a HUGE soundstage. I highly recommend this center!
Danny and Ruben did a great job!
Special thanks to Beatcoaster and Skeeter for helping make this happen as well! When do you guys want to come over to check out the new center?
Randy
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I have the x-voce now
Bought the ls/c cabinet will be ordering no-rez and the kit soon
hopefully will have impressions soon
Thanks! Looking forward to any impressions.
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Sorry - haven't listened to music yet with the LS-C but for HT it is EXCELLENT!!! I used to have a x-voce paired with my LS6s. The x-voce did an OK job but sounded somewhat out of place. With the LS-C the whole front end feels very solid and project a HUGE soundstage. I highly recommend this center!
Danny and Ruben did a great job!
Special thanks to Beatcoaster and Skeeter for helping make this happen as well! When do you guys want to come over to check out the new center?
Randy
Yeah, I like the x-voce OK for HT.,but usually go to the 2 track audio on concerts. I am running in to more and more 5.1 audio mixes, whether SACD, DVD-A, or Blu-ray, and it just isn't quite right. Trying to decide if I can rationalize this expenditure or not.......
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These will be available as a DIY kit.
Things have finally started to slow down now and I am getting some of these projects out of the way that have been around for a while. So I may be able to get to the web site soon. I have all of the LS series kits to add and all of the X series kits to add.
Hey Danny, is the kit up on your site yet?? I looked but couldnt find it. Maybe i missed it??
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Hey Danny, is the kit up on your site yet?? I looked but couldnt find it. Maybe i missed it??
Not on my site, but available. Sorry I have been too busy to work on the web site again.
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hi Ruben,
could you please quote me a price for 2 satin rosewood LS-9 cabinets and a satin rosewood LS-C to my Canadian postal code v0j2go? thank you.
i am a brand new member here, i gotta say it is awesome Danny, i love it!!
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hi Ruben,
could you please quote me a price for 2 satin rosewood LS-9 cabinets and a satin rosewood LS-C to my Canadian postal code v0j2go? thank you.
i am a brand new member here, i gotta say it is awesome Danny, i love it!!
Welcome.
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hi Ruben,
could you please quote me a price for 2 satin rosewood LS-9 cabinets and a satin rosewood LS-C to my Canadian postal code v0j2go? thank you.
Sure can!
I will have you some numbers by tomorrow night.
Best,
Ruben
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my apologies for this Q but its been rattling around in my head for a few days now :?
With these 6 midwoofers with their different resistances, I cant, for the life of me, work out any way to make all the speakers handle loads equally or have the result anywhere close to 8 ohms?
Any possibility someone could put me out of my misery here?? please?? :(
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my apologies for this Q but its been rattling around in my head for a few days now :?
With these 6 midwoofers with their different resistances, I cant, for the life of me, work out any way to make all the speakers handle loads equally or have the result anywhere close to 8 ohms?
Any possibility someone could put me out of my misery here?? please?? :(
It ends up as a nominal 8 ohm impedance. There is a minimum impedance dip of about 4.5 ohms up high where current demand is low. And below 100Hz the impedance rises to decrease low frequency current demand and increase power handling.
(http://gr-research.com/pics/lscimpedance.jpg)
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If one is looking for the BEST Center, then build a LS-C. I have tried numerous other Centers, and was disappointed that I could never get them to integrate into my 9.1 system. I have had mine since I built it for about a year now, and it is the perfect companion to the 9's. I use mine predominately in HT mode, and after a little EQ and volume trim it is just stellar - crystal clear vocals, plays deep but also hits highs effortlessly. Not to mention - this speaker can play LOUD if you want it to in HT and other sound field programs (like 7 channel enhanced stereo mode), and always keep up with the 9's. Just try your favorite Blue Ray movie, or better yet a BR HD Music Concert, and you will see in a hurry how dynamic it is.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=91338)
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It is an old post but I'd like to know if any of you still looking for the LS-C?
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bigger question is are there any ribbons for the center left
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bigger question is are there any ribbons for the center left
The Neo 3 pdr planar magnetic tweeters used in those are not currently in stock. There are a few of them floating around though.
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I'd not post if I didn't come across some. :-)
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I would like to build an LS Center one of these days, to pair up with my LS-6's. If the tweeters are going to be hard to find then maybe I should get them while I can?
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I would if I were You.
I would like to build an LS Center one of these days, to pair up with my LS-6's. If the tweeters are going to be hard to find then maybe I should get them while I can?
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I just acquired a pair of LS-6's (satin rosewood) - pretty amazing speakers. Would love to get a matching LS-C. If there are any available please feel free to contact me. Thanks...Bill (billwr32@gmail.com)
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I just acquired a pair of LS-6's (satin rosewood) - pretty amazing speakers. Would love to get a matching LS-C. If there are any available please feel free to contact me. Thanks...Bill (billwr32@gmail.com)
I actually just found a couple of Neo 3 pdr's that I had measured and tested with some time ago. So I can make the kit available to you. The full kit is $550.
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Danny, per my post above from Nov. 7th, I am interested in purchasing an LS C kit to build out myself. If still available let me know.
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Danny, per my post above from Nov. 7th, I am interested in purchasing an LS C kit to build out myself. If still available let me know.
Yes, I have one available.
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Great, please reserve that one for me, and we can work out the details through email.
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Great, please reserve that one for me, and we can work out the details through email.
Yes.
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How many sheets of No-Rez are needed inside an LS-C?
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How many sheets of No-Rez are needed inside an LS-C?
I think it will take about a sheet and a half.
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Good, I have half a sheet left from an earlier project, so I just need to order one full sheet.
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Danny, I have question on placement of the LS-C for best performance in my system.
I currently have my center channel speaker sitting on an AV rack about two feet off the floor. The front of the speaker is elevated about 2 inches to line up with the center of my head/ear height at my seat about 10 feet away.
Another option is to build a stand/legs so the LS-C is 6 to 12 inches off the AV rack, for a little more breathing room.
In both options above the front of the center speaker is even with the front of the AV rack.
Is either option any better sonically than the other?
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Anyone have some pictures of their completed LSC crossover networks to post on here or email to me? I would appreciate it.
Thanks,
Mike
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Anyone have some pictures of their completed LSC crossover networks to post on here or email to me? I would appreciate it.
Never mind, I built the crossovers yesterday. Was just looking for some good ideas before I started, but I guess this is just an old and apparently dead topic. I think I may be building the last LSC, unless Danny can find more tweeters.
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Never mind, I built the crossovers yesterday. Was just looking for some good ideas before I started, but I guess this is just an old and apparently dead topic. I think I may be building the last LSC, unless Danny can find more tweeters.
Sorry that I didn't get back with you earlier. I did not have any fully assembled crossover pics.
And yes, that might well be the last one.
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No problem, I figured out a good layout pretty quick, and the crossovers turned out well. The speaker enclosure is looking pretty good so far too. I may post a picture of "the last LSC" when done, so we have the proper closure for this thread.
Mike B.
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Interest check, I built my LSC several years ago and I just dont use it. It has probably seen half dozen movies total, it sounds amazing. Always had dialog issues with the 3-4 other center channels I used, not with the LSC it is just in another league. As Reben once said if its in the movie your going to hear it, it reveals so much more than anything ive ever heard. If I didnt listen to 2 channel audio 99.9% of the time I would never consider parting with it.
I just painted it satin black but always planned on coming back to it and doing a walnut wood grain veneer baffle to match my speakers. I believe kits are sold out making this unobtainium status. Therefore not sure of its value or interest at this point, its well built and very heavy. But not Reuben quality mind you.
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g295/mrnick_2006/ls-c002-3.jpg)
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You have a pm.
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I finished building my LS Center speaker, check out the results below. It sounds great and matches my LS-6's and N3's perfectly as expected. This could be the last LS Center build if Danny can't get any more Neo tweeters, but I hope not. Like all of you I really enjoy building speakers, and sometimes I'm almost sorry it's over when I finish!
BTW, I have a really nice X-Voce center speaker for sale if anyone is interested.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140845)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=140844)
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Nice work. Congrats.
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I totally feel sad when I am done building something, especially speakers! :D
Ben
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If anyone is interested, I have a Rosewood LS-C that I bought from Reuben a few years ago. Im selling it since I was able to find a single LS-6 for center duties.
I have no idea on price. Any thoughts?
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Is it a completed unit or just a box only?
Thanks