[Elizabeth]

my bad lol wrong section , I just bought the logans

No problem.. enjoy! 
They are kind of cousins...

[SteveFord]

Dear Magnepan,
I can see through my speakers, is this normal?

[McNubbins]

I am afraid to email this directly to Magnepan (because I'm putting myself in serious danger of buying something)... I'm looking for some advice.

My listening space is at one end of a 13 x 26 ft (4 x 8m) room with 7-foot (2.1m) ceilings. The room is an open loft-like space. My set up is at one end of the room on the long wall and occupies a little less than half of the room, while the other half of the room is the kitchen. Wood floors and ceilings, no room treatments except the couch and a little area rug in front of it.

I'm looking at the .7 as compared to the 1.7i. In my room I could get them 3 feet off the front wall (and more when I'm home alone), so no problems there. But I'll probably only be 6 to 7 feet (~2m) away on the couch. My reading indicates that might be a little close for Maggies. So I have to main lines of inquiry I'd like some help with, if anyone knows.

1. Bass/Size: Are the .7 too small to give me the bass they're specced for in this room? I'm afraid the space goes beyond "medium" into "large" when the air volume of the adjoining kitchen is accounted for. My current speakers roll off pretty steeply at starting at 60Hz and are all done below 40. If I can match that kind of response I'll be satisfied.

2. Listening distance: Is my listening position too close for me to appreciate what Magnepans have to offer?
.7 vs 1.7i: as a current single driver speaker guy, my gut tells me that, all other things being equal, the 2-way .7 would need less distance to the listener to feel as coherent as the 3-way 1.7i. But then I've also heard people say that the 1.7i's midrange and (super)tweeter are actually closer together than the drivers in the .7, so the bigger speaker would be preferable for near-er field listening.

Does anyone know what's really up? Is it still a case of "get the biggest Maggies you can afford"? Before you ask, a sub is currently not on the table. I do not want to jeopardize the peace I currently enjoy with my neighbours.

Thanks for any help.

[Elizabeth]

General comments to McNubbins:
My listening space is similar, but 8 ft ceilings. My width is only 11ft 8 in. With my Magnepan 20.7 speakers 42" to 53" (angled a lot) from back wall, and sides 18" (closest) to side walls. Tweeter 'in' (vs outside) I sit about eight feet away. (But I wish I could sit closer some times.) I also have the kitchen as the back part of the room, and a hallway to the front door, with a space between with two closets, one facing hall, one facing kitchen sticking into the space behind me. but the basics of it is the space front to back is about 26 feet.
I also care about not disturbing my neighbors, and have a variety of ways of attenuating the bottom end of my big Maggies. (However still some Rock music which is just not really playable on them due to 'too much bass' (so those I use earphones, but since I enjoy all sorts of music, particularly small Jazz and Classical groups, usually not a problem)

One point to remember about Maggies is the bass does not travel through walls nearly as much  as box/cone speakers bass does. So you get a 'head start' on not annoying the neighbors with Magnepans!
As far as how big a speaker you need to fill the space... You can see I am of the opposite camp. (Which is how huge a speaker can I cram into my 'little' room) So I do not have that part of the answer. I used to have 3.6 Maggies in the same spot as my current 20.7 and they were just about perfect. as far as bass and the room went. The 20.7 have much better midrange clarity than the 3.6 did, but more bass than I really can use. (with some bass heavy Rock.. PS ALL Rock from the 60's 70's bass is no problem. Only into the 80s. like Madonna and forward does bass become BIG, and a problem. the perfect bass for my 20.7 is Depeche Mode as an example of bass i can play and not worry about getting an eviction notice. I usually am playing Rock at around 67dB "C" weighted at listening position using a Radio Shack SPL meter. (Having  meter is great so I know 'how loud am I really) Been here 12 years, no one has ever complained about my playing music (and being in an 'over 55' complex plenty of folks complain about ANYTHING...)

I would say if you can afford the 1.7i got for them. Remember they will want a powerful amp. Not just to play loud, but to play well at moderate levels. But I am all for get the biggest you can crowd.
Good luck.

[josh358]

I'm with Elizabeth -- I like the big ones!

Otherwise -- you'll get better imaging a few feet back, because of the lateral displacement of the drivers, but I don't think 6-7 feet is an impossible distance. As you move closer you'll get a major bass rise but I don't think you're quite that close. I listen to my Tympanis at something like 6' and it works well.

The speakers do like to be at least 5' off the wall.

I'm in a small room, 13' x 14' with 13' of usable area, so my situation isn't all that dissimilar to yours. The solution is to pull the speakers out 5' or so and listen near the rear wall. That means some minimal acoustical treatment, broadband absorption behind your listening position. Corning 703 2" fiberglass should do the trick, 4' x 4', two or better yet three pieces thick (4"-6" total) so you get bass absorption. Or you can buy a ready made acoustical panel from GIK, et al.

If you're close to a side wall, you may notice the asymmetry as the sound will tend to wrap around the side wall but be open on the other side. If you can, move the speakers further out from the side wall, otherwise, again, some treatment may help.

i'd be concerned about the reverberation from the hard kitchen. Fortunately, dipoles don't radiate all that much to the side.

Re size, yeah, as I said, I'd be inclined to go to a larger Maggie. That might not be true if the speakers were on the short wall but on the long wall, they won't get bass reinforcement from two proximate side walls. And in general, the bigger the Maggie, the better the performance, as you'd expect -- louder, deeper, lower distortion for the same playback level.

I don't think the supertweeter is an advantage specifically for listening up close but it is an advantage in general.

That said, the .7's should be acoustically smaller than the 1.7's and you're sitting up close, so they may image better, laterally, anyway. But I think Wendell will be better able to respond to this on the basis of experience with the various models! Even if it does mean you'll end up buying 30.7's.

[McNubbins]

Thanks for all the tips and information, Elizabeth and Josh.

It's encouraging to hear others' Magnepan success stories of setups in rooms that don't seem ideally matched to the size of speaker being used.

I think you're both probably probably right that bigger is better. I've been bitten before in some of my other hobbies by getting gear that's just "good enough". So it is probably better to wait until I can fit a 1.7i into my budget rather than getting something that might be too small. And if I get the 1.7i, it's tall enough that I might just be able to walk around the room a bit and have my ears still in vertical window of good treble dispersion (The VWGTD)!

It's also good to be reminded that room treatments can help mitigate some positioning compromises.

I'm still curious if anyone has anything further to add--I've learned a lot going back through threads like this one, and it may be helpful to someone else in the future. Thanks again.

[SteveFord]

Even though you're really close to those speakers the small guys might get dwarfed by that room.

[Wind Chaser]

I have a question based on the following statement taken from the Magnepan FAQ page...

“If we sold the portion of the speaker from 200 Hz up, you could put it in the average apartment. Yes, it would be tall, but very narrow.”

Magnepan says they “are not fans of hybrid speakers” BUT the fact is many of their customers use conventional subs with their Maggies. So assuming there was enough demand, would Magnepan be willing offer “the pole portion of the speaker from 200 Hz up”?

Subs are much smaller than large panels. And there are some subs (OB servo) that are probably every bit as good as large panels when it comes to extension, impact and high definition bass.

I hope Magnepan is open minded enough to at least explore this avenue.

[seadogs1]

Hey Magnepan! How about making the LRS an Active Loudspeaker.

[SteveFord]

Wind Chaser,
Here's your answer (kinda):
On a theoretical basis, mixing a line-source, dipole driver with a monopole woofer doesn't work. However, a dynamic dipole (open baffle) woofer would work, but there are very few of them on the market. 

[Wind Chaser]

Hi Steve,

The question I was hoping Magnepan would answer is... would they (Magnepan) be willing offer just “the pole portion of the speaker from 200 Hz up”?

If so, assuming the poles were sensibly priced, I bet the demand would be prolific. If they offered just the pole portion of the speaker from 200 Hz up, it would allow people the flexibility to choose their own bass solution. As it is, early results of a quick poll indicate the vast majority of Maggie owners are using subs with their Magneplanars. This would suggest most people want more bass then the panels can produce. So why not offer the poles which although very tall, would be least space taking Maggie that could fit in almost any room?

[Elizabeth]

I would never have a sub with a pair of Maggies. 

[SteveFord]

I know that your question was not really answered.
I took that to be a "no" along with an oblique hint.

They're always fooling around with something at the factory so we'll see what comes next.

[Wind Chaser]

I would never have a sub with a pair of Maggies. 

Have you ever tried or heard a sub / subs with them?

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Tall poles are a lot more appealing than large panels. They could be moved in and out of position with relative ease / nominal effort. Mated with dynamic OB servo subs would open up tremendous possibilities in smaller rooms where large panels are not an option.

[Elizabeth]

Why would I want to do THAT? 
I live in an 'over 55' complex. That means NO NOISE. Half the reason Magnepans are great here is the fact the damn thumping does NOT go through walls. Gee ... what an idea.. buy a sub so it DOES...
Plus I hate that throbbing sheet.   

[Wind Chaser]

Half the reason Magnepans are great here is the fact the damn thumping does NOT go through walls. Gee ... what an idea.. buy a sub so it DOES...

NOT AT ALL with OB subs... 

[Wind Chaser]

I know that your question was not really answered.
I took that to be a "no" along with an oblique hint.

Steve,

I'm not sure I understand, are you saying Magnepan's response to my question was an indirect evasive "no" based on a "theoretical basis"?

[SteveFord]

If you watch what they do they'll start off with one model change and then a whole slew of them follow (the 3.7s gave rise to the 1.7 and the 20.7 and then came the "i" designation and down to the .7 and finally the new LSR speakers).

They just came out with the 30.7 which is a different direction than just two panels.  Super expensive statement speakers for the jet set crowd.
Their history suggests that they'll use that as a model for a new family of products which may include what you're after although they're really against conventional cone woofers and any sort of built-in amplification.  I know for a fact that ain't never gonna happen even if ain't ain't in the dictionary.

They also seem to really like selling packages with the DMV being the exception.

My educated guess is that your credit card will take a beating sooner or later.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

McNubbins,

I am a Maggie owner (1.6's and original MMG's). I have a friend that has the 1.7's in a small room, maybe 10x12 if that.  He uses his in a near field setup, sitting maybe 5' from the speakers. He also uses dual Rhythmik subs and room treatments.   His system sounds awesome.

When I first saw the set up, I thought that there was no way it was going to sound good but it does.  Of course he has electronics that sound great at lower volumes but he does turn them up and rock.

By the way, subs can integrate well with Maggies.  You need a good non ported sub to fill in the bottom end.  I run dual Martin Logan subs with mine and it is a seamless transition.

Go for the 1.7i's and don't look back.

Larry

[Saturn94]

I am afraid to email this directly to Magnepan (because I'm putting myself in serious danger of buying something)... I'm looking for some advice.

My listening space is at one end of a 13 x 26 ft (4 x 8m) room with 7-foot (2.1m) ceilings. The room is an open loft-like space. My set up is at one end of the room on the long wall and occupies a little less than half of the room, while the other half of the room is the kitchen. Wood floors and ceilings, no room treatments except the couch and a little area rug in front of it.

I'm looking at the .7 as compared to the 1.7i. In my room I could get them 3 feet off the front wall (and more when I'm home alone), so no problems there. But I'll probably only be 6 to 7 feet (~2m) away on the couch. My reading indicates that might be a little close for Maggies. So I have to main lines of inquiry I'd like some help with, if anyone knows.

1. Bass/Size: Are the .7 too small to give me the bass they're specced for in this room? I'm afraid the space goes beyond "medium" into "large" when the air volume of the adjoining kitchen is accounted for. My current speakers roll off pretty steeply at starting at 60Hz and are all done below 40. If I can match that kind of response I'll be satisfied.

2. Listening distance: Is my listening position too close for me to appreciate what Magnepans have to offer?
.7 vs 1.7i: as a current single driver speaker guy, my gut tells me that, all other things being equal, the 2-way .7 would need less distance to the listener to feel as coherent as the 3-way 1.7i. But then I've also heard people say that the 1.7i's midrange and (super)tweeter are actually closer together than the drivers in the .7, so the bigger speaker would be preferable for near-er field listening.

Does anyone know what's really up? Is it still a case of "get the biggest Maggies you can afford"? Before you ask, a sub is currently not on the table. I do not want to jeopardize the peace I currently enjoy with my neighbours.

Thanks for any help.

Did you decide what to go with?  Did you get them yet?

I’m have a similar situation/layout, except I have a cathedral ceiling, and have the same question; .7 vs 1.7i?

One of my concerns is only being able to set the speakers 2.5 to 3ft max from the walk behind them, with a 60” plasma TV between.  That puts the main listening position 7 - 7.5ft from the speakers.

In my case I plan to use my current sealed sub (Power Sound Audio Triax).

My concern with the 1.7i is how visually big it will be in my setup.  Visually, the .7 would be better, and easier to move out of the way when I want to use my current Soundfield Audio Monitor 1 speakers.  But, in terms of performance, would the .7 be too small for the room?

Here’s a pic of the listening area.  It’s open to the right to the dining area (about the same size as the listening area.  The SVS sub in the left corner has been replaced with my current sealed sub.