Good pre-amps/amps for SongTowers?

jglim0109 · « **on:** 14 Jan 2010, 05:41 pm »

I'm sure this has been discussed repeatedly, but to avoid digging thru years of threads and obsolete information, I thought I would start a new one.

I've had my songtowers for nearly a year and have just been using my old Yamaha receiver from 2001. Just looking for some recommendations for preamps/amps that would go well with my speakers (rock music only, old and new; don't watch a lot of movies that would benefit from high-end audio). I like the neutral/natural sound of the songtowers and want to avoid getting equipment that is going to make them sound warm or harsh.

I haven't done much research yet, but I know about Emotiva and Rotel. I've heard Emotiva makes some really nice stuff for the price. Any other recommendations? I use a squeezebox for music, and I guess my budget would be about 2k for new stuff. No plans to get 5.1 any time soon since I rarely watch any action movies. The only addition I can see would be a subwoofer.

Any links from previous threads are welcome as well.

taoggniklat · « **Reply #1 on:** 14 Jan 2010, 06:34 pm »

For $2k you have quite a number of options.

I know some people like using AVA gear with their Salks. I personally have not used AVA in my own system, but I have listened to Vintagebob's system and he has AVA gear. He will have to chime in with the exact model numbers as I do not recall.

NAD also makes some nice Integrated amplifiers.

I used to own a Conrad Johnson MF200 and I really liked it. I have not used it or any of their new products with Salk Sound but I think they would make a good match. You might be able to find some CJ used in your price range.

Nuance · « **Reply #2 on:** 14 Jan 2010, 07:04 pm »

To go with the recommendations already given:

- Parasound 2100 preamp and 2250 amplifier. The preamp has HT bypass, so you could still use the receiver for movies, but use the preamp for music.
- AVA Insight 240 or 260 amplifier and Insight SL preamp.
- Rotel RC-1550 preamp and RB-1572 amplifier.

There are a lot of different combinations you can look into, and even more if you include the used market. Personally I'd ensure the amplifier has as much power as you can afford, then find a preamp based on features.

Happy hunting.

TomS · « **Reply #3 on:** 14 Jan 2010, 07:06 pm »

AVA is an obvious choice give the partnership and success many have had. Other possibilities might be the Odyssey Khartago/Stratos and the new Wyred4Sound integrateds.

floresjc · « **Reply #4 on:** 14 Jan 2010, 07:28 pm »

If you desire home theater passthrough, it'd be hard to beat the Parasound 2100. I love mine, it has a good many options for modern design (including mp3 jack and a good remote) and sounds quite lovely for the price. And you will love the AVA Insight 240 (I use 5 channels of these to drive my SongTowers, great sound and value).

Now if you want the absolute king of value in a 2 channel setting for Songtowers, I would strongly consider the new AVA Vision DAC/Preamp combination ($1599) with the Insight 240 amp (999). I know its a tad over your budget, but you'd never want for power, and the preamp/dac combination would be just amazing. I have the Insight DAC and the Insight Pre (plus the 240 amps), and they are flat out awesome for the price, the Vision series is supposed to be even better and is only about a month old.

If you wanted to chop that down a little to your budget, exclude the Vision DAC/pre combo and just get a basic Insight preamp. The preamp portion is the exact same, you just won't have a high quality DAC built into the unit, but its only 899, and so you'd come in under 2k for the amp/preamp together.

K Shep · « **Reply #5 on:** 14 Jan 2010, 10:24 pm »

I would suggest looking at a tube pre to partner with you SongTowers I had 2 different tube preamps in a system with my old ST's. My stock answer is Parasound and Ava Hifi...bang for your buck 2 of the best, not to mention build quality, did I mention sound quality? No one seems to mention the Parasound A23 much they may be had used on Audiogon at your budget , so I will mention it.

Another mfg I have been paying attention to is Vincent, they have a hybrid amp that looks interesting. The SP-331 I am working on an audition.

TJHUB · « **Reply #6 on:** 15 Jan 2010, 01:58 am »

You mention Emotiva and Rotel. Rotel is nice, but I think there are better values out there. I used to own Emotiva and it was ok. I wouldn't tell people not to buy Emotiva gear, but it's not nearly as good as the fan base thinks it is. What bothers me more than anything is that none of their "neutral" amps seem to sound the same. Doesn't that seem weird for "neutral" amps? Plus they can't seem to make problem free preamps and processors and then pretend like there are no issues with them. Whatever...

Bang for the buck, the Parasound 2100 is a steal and a fine piece of gear for the money. Flawless functionality and feature rich with a true to the source sound, it's a fantastic budget preamp. I have audio friends that have owned very expensive preamps and they own 2100s and really like them. I also love the fully discrete remote for programming my universal remote.

I paired my 2100 with a Parasound 2250 2-channel amp delivering 385wpc into 4ohms and all sounds very good. I run subwoofer for music and the 2100 brings it all together nicely and the home theater bypass mode is a must in my book. I like to think of my setup as a dedicated 2-channel setup that is home theater capable. I love it!

I will note that I move from my Emotiva gear straight to the Parasound gear. I have no regrets at all and I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

I too am a tube fan and I will never have a setup without at least one piece of gear with a tube in it. Currently I run a Music Hall tube DAC that is just fantastic. The stage width and depth is wider and deeper than anything else I've owned and the 3D sound stage gives great separation detail. Tubes are the greatest thing I've done for my sound right behind my Salk speakers. Too bad I waited so long to try tubes.

I haven't heard any AVA gear, but if it had a true HT-bypass, I'd be trying it. The other stuff that looks worth giving a long look is Odyssey audio.

Good luck with your search!

P.S. I forgot to mention that none of this maters without a great source or DAC. For DACs, my two budget favorites are my Music Hall DAC 25.2 and the PS Audio DLIII.

Toka · « **Reply #7 on:** 15 Jan 2010, 06:28 am »

Salk + Van Alstine = good tunes & good times.

jglim0109 · « **Reply #8 on:** 15 Jan 2010, 03:27 pm »

It sounds like Parasound and Van Alstine are people's favorites. I'll probably make a decision fairly soon.

Any recommendations for equipment rack companies (not to change the subject too much)? I don't wanna spend a lot, but something strong that looks decent would be nice.

divisionbell77 · « **Reply #9 on:** 15 Jan 2010, 05:06 pm »

BDI makes some real nice stuff, IMO. though their stereo racks are not too many(really constraint on the home theater market). They do have a few racks, though, and some of their home theater models would work as a stereo rack, like the Revo.

http://www.bdiusa.com/

TJHUB · « **Reply #10 on:** 16 Jan 2010, 12:01 am »

Quote from: jglim0109 on 15 Jan 2010, 03:27 pm

Any recommendations for equipment rack companies (not to change the subject too much)? I don't wanna spend a lot, but something strong that looks decent would be nice.

I like StudioTech (which I own) and Salamander. They are both very well made and the StudioTech is compatible with rack mount gear and has fantastic cooling.

mchuckp · « **Reply #11 on:** 16 Jan 2010, 06:13 am »

I can speak well of AVA. Since getting my STRTs in August, my front end included an Emotiva USP-1 preamp into an AVA 240 amp. Sounded AWESOME....until I replaced the Emotiva with an AVA T8. Woah! I still wonder to this day if the tubes made all the difference or the great build of the T8 or both. All I can say is that the fullness in my overall sound grew exponentially and the organic qualities grew equally. My next experiment is trying a tube amp as well. We'll see how that goes. IMO, the Emo is a great unit for the price but not in the same league as the AVA (at least for preamps).

If AVA is in your budget, you seriously cannot go wrong.

oneinthepipe · « **Reply #12 on:** 16 Jan 2010, 06:29 pm »

IMO, you would obtain an enormous improvement through upgrading your source with an external DAC that improves upon the SB's built-in DAC. A good pre-amp and amp will be able to take advantage of the improved source material.

The best combination out there, IMO, for the price, and a great amplification system for the SongTower, regardless of price, is the AVA Vision DAC/Preamp and the AVA UltraValve. These are substantially over your target price, @ 3300.00, but AVA gear periodically becomes available on the used market. There is an AVA Insight SL preamp on a'gon for 675.00. A few weeks ago, two AVA Ultimate 70 amplifiers (substantially similar to the UltraValve in a ST-70 chassis) sold for 1350 (for both of them; 625 each). An AVA Insight DAC sold last week for 575.00. If and when similar products available, you could buy an AVA preamp, DAC, and wonderful tube amp for 2000.00 or less.

Obtaining the best components for a particular system might take a bit of time, but building an audio system should be more of a process, perhaps, than an event.

jglim0109 · « **Reply #13 on:** 18 Feb 2010, 09:14 pm »

Updating this a month later...

I just bought an AVA Transcendence 8 off of audiogon (should be here this weekend). Looking at amps/DACs upgrades in the near future....which ones would you add?

Parasound (A23 or 2250)
or
AVA amp

either one of those better to pair with a tube preamp? The only reason I would choose parasound is there seems to be more of them on audiogon (AVA gear is much harder to find).

And I've read about these being the three best DACs for the money...

Music Hall
DacMagic
PS Audio Digital Link III

any one of those better, given that i have a tube preamp now, or are they all pretty similar?

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #14 on:** 18 Feb 2010, 11:06 pm »

Quote from: jglim0109 on 18 Feb 2010, 09:14 pm

And I've read about these being the three best DACs for the money...

Music Hall
DacMagic
PS Audio Digital Link III

The SS PSA is a great DAC even in stock form. The tubed MH is a great DAC that is more musical. Have owned the stock and modified PSA and own the MH. No experience with the third one.

TJHUB · « **Reply #15 on:** 19 Feb 2010, 01:06 am »

Quote from: jglim0109 on 18 Feb 2010, 09:14 pm

Updating this a month later...

I just bought an AVA Transcendence 8 off of audiogon (should be here this weekend). Looking at amps/DACs upgrades in the near future....which ones would you add?

Parasound (A23 or 2250)
or
AVA amp

either one of those better to pair with a tube preamp? The only reason I would choose parasound is there seems to be more of them on audiogon (AVA gear is much harder to find).

And I've read about these being the three best DACs for the money...

Music Hall
DacMagic
PS Audio Digital Link III

any one of those better, given that i have a tube preamp now, or are they all pretty similar?

I too have owned the PS Audio and I still have a Music Hall (modified). I prefer the tube sound stage of the Music Hall, but I wouldn't complain if I owned the PS Audio again. In my opinion, the Music Hall *needs* the opamps upgraded to either Burson's or higher end Burr-Browns. I have the Burson's and it makes the Music Hall a whole new animal. PM me if want to know more. (I'd low-ball Big Red Machine on his Music Hall he has in the classifieds

)

The DacMagic is supposedly decent, but I've never heard it.

I'm a synergy guy, so if you have the cash, I'd pair an AVA amp with the AVA preamp. I just like it when things match or go together. What's funny about that is for the first time in my life, none of my gear is from the same manufacturer.

luckyrolls · « **Reply #16 on:** 19 Feb 2010, 01:33 am »

I got my SongTowers about 3 weeks ago (and loving them) and I am just using my old 85w Denon 2800. I decided to give these class d amps a try ... http://classdaudio.com/index.php/class-d-amplifier-kits/home-kits/250w-x2-500w-x1-amp-large-power-supply-transformer.html. Hopefully I can get this together this weekend and see how it sounds. Lots of chatter about these amps over here http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=76400.0

If I like it, somebody is creating a custom case for it and it will leave me more money for a Dac, Pre-Amp (I use a Squeezebox as well).

atroder · « **Reply #17 on:** 19 Feb 2010, 03:21 am »

I've had my STRTs for about a week now. Before last Christmas I couldn't pass up an Emotiva UPA-2 (125w) for $249, and paired with the STRTs, the sound is simply amazing. However, I haven't tried connecting the STRTs directly to the AVR, nor have I ever experimented with other amps. I am faced with the question of whether or not a higher quality (price) amp would significantly benefit the STRTs over and above the UPA-2. Nuance - you mentioned the Rotel RB-1572 class D amp (250w). Have you heard it, and if so, what does it do for the STRTs? The RB-1572 is especially attractive to me because of its small footprint. - Thanks.

David C · « **Reply #18 on:** 19 Feb 2010, 04:40 pm »

Anyone using the Nuforce mono amps with Salk speakers?

Nuance · « **Reply #19 on:** 19 Feb 2010, 08:39 pm »

Quote from: atroder on 19 Feb 2010, 03:21 am

I've had my STRTs for about a week now. Before last Christmas I couldn't pass up an Emotiva UPA-2 (125w) for $249, and paired with the STRTs, the sound is simply amazing. However, I haven't tried connecting the STRTs directly to the AVR, nor have I ever experimented with other amps. I am faced with the question of whether or not a higher quality (price) amp would significantly benefit the STRTs over and above the UPA-2. Nuance - you mentioned the Rotel RB-1572 class D amp (250w). Have you heard it, and if so, what does it do for the STRTs? The RB-1572 is especially attractive to me because of its small footprint. - Thanks.

Yes I have heard it, but not with my ST's. The only complaint I have ever had about class D is some of them (D-Sonic) roll off the very top end ever so slightly, at least to my ears. Listening under level matched blind conditions, I'd probably never notice to be honest, though. I think its a very decent amp, for what its worth, and heard no top end roll-off.