AudioCircle

Industry Circles => GR Research => Topic started by: mkrawcz on 26 Jun 2022, 01:46 pm

Title: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: mkrawcz on 26 Jun 2022, 01:46 pm
A few weeks ago, I happened to see that the Sony SSCS5s were on sale for $113 on Amazon (now they are $228), so I bought them. I saw Danny's upgrade video on them and the measurements were really impressive, so I got the upgrade for them.  I listened to the stock speakers for about a week while waiting for the kit. The moment I heard the stock speakers for the first time, I could tell what the upgrade was going to do to these speakers. Stock, they sounded really good for the price and it was like they were being held back from their potential. Sure enough, upgrade completed, these things sound impressive. They image as good as any boxed speaker I've heard. The detail and soundstage are about as good as it gets for a speaker this size. With all soft driver material, they always sound very natural. If you can get them at a low price, these are definitely a speaker worth buying just to upgrade.

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=242050)


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=242051)


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=242049)
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: corndog71 on 26 Jun 2022, 03:01 pm
I bought them for $113 too!  Thanks to thecheapaudioman.  I haven’t cracked them open yet because life keeps happening and I’m still getting settled into a new place.  I also noticed the upgrade kit price went up since the video came out which I wasn’t prepared for.  I’ll get to it eventually. 

I appreciate the pics of your work.  Nicely done!
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: mkrawcz on 26 Jun 2022, 04:59 pm
I bought them for $113 too!  Thanks to thecheapaudioman.  I haven’t cracked them open yet because life keeps happening and I’m still getting settled into a new place.  I also noticed the upgrade kit price went up since the video came out which I wasn’t prepared for.  I’ll get to it eventually. 

I appreciate the pics of your work.  Nicely done!
Thanks! You're going to love those speakers, they're a real stunner.   
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: DAY4201 on 1 Jul 2022, 05:01 pm
Nice work! Very neat. I found a pair for $88 at Best Buy at the end of December 2001. I too was impressed with the sound of the stock speaker but was interested in seeing how much better it could sound.  I ordered the update kit in January 2022. As it was the first crossover I had ever built I had some difficulty but received a lot of help from E-Zee and Hobbs. Very grateful to both. I was able to mount the woofer section across the back bottom. I was a little tight but worked out. I had to remove some of the bracing to fit it. I later added more bracing and No-Rez plus fiber glass.

I mounted the tweeter section much like you but I made a small shelf to help secure it. I also added tube connectors and upgraded the existing binding posts with ones I purchased from Parts Express. I replaced the only ferrous metal part on the replacement biding post (a washer) with a nylon one. I split the wiring to the tube connectors and binding posts be able to use one of the other. I did it partly to test to my ears if the tubes connectors were better. I would say they were but I think for this pair of speakers the binding posts are good also.  My photo was taken before the No-Rez and the wiring for the binding post was added.

I think the kit was a good value considering the improvement in sound quality over the stock speakers plus the addition of the No-Rez and tube connectors. 
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=242218)
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: mkrawcz on 1 Jul 2022, 06:20 pm
Right now, I am listening to this setup: Sony CS5 ->GR Research GK10 prototype ->Holo Spring3KTE w/preamp -> Ifi Zen Steam. These speakers really are a force to be reckoned with.
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: mkrawcz on 9 Dec 2022, 12:55 pm
Did another Sony upgrade and thought I’d share the new crossovers. Came out a lot cleaner this time and man do these speaker sound good.


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=247407)

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=247406)

Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: Onionhead on 18 Feb 2023, 02:09 pm
Nice work organizing the crossovers. Your pics have me thinking I can get this project off the shelf and completed.
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: IchibanKnifeFan on 14 Sep 2023, 06:48 pm
New to Audio Circle here......

I'm in the process of doing the GR Research upgrade to my Sony CS5 speakers.

What are the opinions on how much No-Rez to use on the internal walls? Use all that Danny supplies, or is there an optimum amount?

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: mkrawcz on 15 Sep 2023, 01:02 pm
New to Audio Circle here......

I'm in the process of doing the GR Research upgrade to my Sony CS5 speakers.

What are the opinions on how much No-Rez to use on the internal walls? Use all that Danny supplies, or is there an optimum amount?

Thanks in advance.
The only place you can really fit it is on the side walls. You will need to leave about 1 inch of space free from the front baffle so that the foam is away from the woofer.
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: BrandonB on 15 Sep 2023, 01:19 pm
Right now, I am listening to this setup: Sony CS5 ->GR Research GK10 prototype ->Holo Spring3KTE w/preamp -> Ifi Zen Steam. These speakers really are a force to be reckoned with.

I see you have the holo spring 3 dac with preamp.  How do you like it?  I have been looking at that.
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: mkrawcz on 15 Sep 2023, 01:39 pm
I see you have the holo spring 3 dac with preamp.  How do you like it?  I have been looking at that.
It’s really good but I think the Gustard R26 is better.
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: BrandonB on 15 Sep 2023, 09:45 pm
It’s really good but I think the Gustard R26 is better.

Have you listened to the Gustard to compare?
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: mkrawcz on 15 Sep 2023, 10:37 pm
Have you listened to the Gustard to compare?
I own a Gustard R26. I find it to have a wider and deeper soundstage than the Holo. Not by much but I prefer listening to the Gustard over the Holo which is a little irritating considering its half the price.
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: jmimac351 on 28 Sep 2023, 07:42 pm
HA!…. :lol: 

“Used / Like New”  :popcorn:


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=257008)
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: jmimac351 on 30 Sep 2023, 10:54 pm
They are definitely going to put me in jail!!!

Wilson Audio Duette w/ Stands - $15,695 (Retail 2012)

Sony SS-CS5 - "Used / Like New" Amazon $66.36 (arrived in original packaging)
24" Stands - Neighbor Curb Alert "FREE" (need to assemble 28" Monolith stands, will raise speaker to ear level, but vertical response of these is good by measurement, especially after upgrade)

SVS SB16-Ultra subs (dual) Sony SS-CS5 crossover settings per SVS setup tool: 60Hz, 12dB/octave slope

They are so good right now (a little honk / shout every now and then)... no question to get the upgrade from Danny.  This is even before installing 100Hz high pass filter into Ayre VX-5 Twenty Amp.

HOLY COW!


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=257140)


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=257141)

Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: jmimac351 on 2 Oct 2023, 12:00 am
The 28" Monolith stands are perfect for my seating height.  You can see how they sit relative to what Wilson thinks is a good height.


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=257139)
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: jmimac351 on 2 Oct 2023, 12:48 am
Pre-Upgrade... Stock vs Stock... Look at a few of the hot spots between the Duette and the SS-CS5.  I suspect this is why people are impressed with the Sony "out of the box".  It's tipped up @1k.  Look at some of the peaks / valleys with the Duette... known for being "resolving" - which they are.  It's also tipped up there.  The Duette will rip your face off if not setup right.

With subwoofers on, I bet I could convince you the Wilsons are playing - if you weren't already very familiar with their "house sound".  Subwoofers can make you forget other things are missing, and if you don't have subs - you are missing out! With the subs off, the Sony speakers do not get it done, compared to the Duette.



(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=257142)

If the scaling of these graphs were the same I think visual would be more prominent.  Hmm... it looks like the Wilson may have a few of the same "issues" the SS-CS5 does.  Maybe I should ask a guy about that.  Maybe I'm a moron.


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=257145)



Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: corndog71 on 2 Oct 2023, 12:54 am
Clearly you need to send one of your Wilson’s in for Danny to set straight.
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: Tyson on 2 Oct 2023, 04:12 am
Clearly you need to send one of your Wilson’s in for Danny to set straight.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/ztujni1w6RR96/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: jmimac351 on 2 Oct 2023, 02:15 pm
Between shipping the crates / stand boxes from Arizona to Florida, and shipping a different, heavy speaker to and back from Danny, I've spent ~$1,000 in shipping over the past few months.  I'm a little shipping cost weary right now.  I'd be happy to send a Duette to Danny...however...

Ima need about tree-fiddy... Three Hundred and Fifty Dollars.

Actually, I've looked up the cost and as I recall it's about $145 each way.


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=257163)


Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: Danny Richie on 2 Oct 2023, 05:50 pm
Try our upgrade on the little Sony's and then see how they compare to the Wilsons.  :D
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: yoster on 2 Oct 2023, 10:20 pm
Hello! New here and wanted to pick your brains.

I picked up a set of SSCS5's on marketplace for a whopping $49.57.  They were in "acceptable" condition according to amazon.. but upon receiving.. they were sealed new.. score!!

Anywho, of course now, I'm looking at these crossover upgrades.  So, here's my question.

I see various ones out there.  I see this one:
https://www.nbdesigns.work/shop/p/modifications-for-sony-ss-cs5-speakers

I also see one by GR Research and a few youtubers.

I'm primarily interested in the URL link above (this is also the one that cheap audio man recommended), but my question is this.  Is the 'methodology' between the various versions all similar?  Is one inherently better than another etc?  I'm inclined to go with the $20 PDF from NBD and do it myself.. any feedback from anyone here who has done that one?

Thank you!!
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: jmimac351 on 2 Oct 2023, 11:01 pm
Try our upgrade on the little Sony's and then see how they compare to the Wilsons.  :D

That's definitely happening!  I'm picking up another pair of speakers tomorrow locally that you and I discussed several days ago via email - "AV123 ELT525T".  I have an idea for that speaker that I want to discuss with you but don't want to muddle this thread with it.  I'll order upgrades for both speakers at the same time.  For others reading this, if it works, I'll share separately as it might work out kinda cool for fixing another speaker that left the factory "broken"... you may have seen it in a video recently. 

ALL - the thing is... although it would be very interesting to ship the Duette and have Danny measure them, make them better, etc. - what do I end up with?  I end up with a better speaker that I still have a pile of money invested into already, that will want even more money with the upgrade. And, maybe that's OK too.  What something costs you mostly is the difference between what you bought it for, and what you sell it for; notwithstanding opportunity costs for that money used eslewhere.  I am not "unhappy" with the Duette speaker, as they currently sit.  "They do a thing."  I bought the Duette because I heard a pair at a friend's house, and I liked them.  They work for my room placement and I'm using them as a reference to compare with other things and keep learning about what I like / want / need.  The fact of the matter is, I probably "need" a pair of NX-Studio paired with subs.

I bought the Sony speakers for this reason: What if I can do even better than the Duette for a fraction of the cost?  Here's what's more... what if you took the upgrade for these Sony speakers, removed the drivers, built upgraded crossovers / installed all of that stuff into a better, custom enclosure with dual 8" servo subs in the base to keep a slender baffle?  Or, the exact same width baffle and a single 12" servo sub mounted in the side?  Things like that could be crazy enough to be spectacular... for less than half the money of a pair of used Duette.

This idea is crazy enough because of the Sony upgrade measurements below:

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=257174)


Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: Danny Richie on 3 Oct 2023, 05:04 pm
Anywho, of course now, I'm looking at these crossover upgrades.  So, here's my question.

I see various ones out there.  I see this one:
https://www.nbdesigns.work/shop/p/modifications-for-sony-ss-cs5-speakers

I also see one by GR Research and a few youtubers.

I'm primarily interested in the URL link above (this is also the one that cheap audio man recommended), but my question is this.  Is the 'methodology' between the various versions all similar?  Is one inherently better than another etc?  I'm inclined to go with the $20 PDF from NBD and do it myself.. any feedback from anyone here who has done that one?

Thank you!!

The upgrade mentioned in the link is not at all like what we offer. We designed an upgraded based on the actual response of the drivers and the measurements are the actual measurements of the new design. We reconfigured the range the driver operate in. We readjusted the crossover points, improved the vertical and horizontal off axis response and addressed the resonance in the woofers response by notching it out. Our kit also replaces the binding posts. Ours even includes half of a sheet of No Rez to control cabinet resonances.

The one in the link has response measurements generated in a software package. "These response graphs are generated by XSim"

Not apples and oranges.....
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: Danny Richie on 3 Oct 2023, 05:05 pm
Quote
What if I can do even better than the Duette for a fraction of the cost?  Here's what's more... what if you took the upgrade for these Sony speakers, removed the drivers, built upgraded crossovers / installed all of that stuff into a better, custom enclosure with dual 8" servo subs in the base to keep a slender baffle?  Or, the exact same width baffle and a single 12" servo sub mounted in the side?  Things like that could be crazy enough to be spectacular... for less than half the money of a pair of used Duette.

Changing the cabinet would require a redesign of the crossover. A better idea is to leave it as is and add one or more of our servo subs.
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: jmimac351 on 3 Oct 2023, 05:20 pm
Changing the cabinet would require a redesign of the crossover. A better idea is to leave it as is and add one or more of our servo subs.

Ok, so can’t turn it into a tower design.  Thank goodness. 😁

I’m curious… is there any benefit to building a better cabinet, same internal volume, same width front baffle, with thicker MDF panels so it’s more rigid than the factory cabinet, or will making ANY cabinet change cause a variance not designed for?  In other words, would a better cabinet actually be “bad”?
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: mkrawcz on 3 Oct 2023, 06:09 pm
The upgrade mentioned in the link is not at all like what we offer. We designed an upgraded based on the actual response of the drivers and the measurements are the actual measurements of the new design. We reconfigured the range the driver operate in. We readjusted the crossover points, improved the vertical and horizontal off axis response and addressed the resonance in the woofers response by notching it out. Our kit also replaces the binding posts. Ours even includes half of a sheet of No Rez to control cabinet resonances.

The one in the link has response measurements generated in a software package. "These response graphs are generated by XSim"

Not apples and oranges.....
I did the Neal upgrade on a pair of Sonys and it’s completely different than Danny’s. It also does not sound remotely as good. It also sounds like there is comb filtering issues with it.
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: mkrawcz on 3 Oct 2023, 06:11 pm
Ok, so can’t turn it into a tower design.  Thank goodness. 😁

I’m curious… is there any benefit to building a better cabinet, same internal volume, same width front baffle, with thicker MDF panels so it’s more rigid than the factory cabinet, or will making ANY cabinet change cause a variance not designed for?  In other words, would a better cabinet actually be “bad”?
I will say that the Sony cabinet is a problem. There is resonance up into the midrange even with the norez. I think a high pass filter will take care of a lot of that.
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: yoster on 3 Oct 2023, 06:39 pm
I did the Neal upgrade on a pair of Sonys and it’s completely different than Danny’s. It also does not sound remotely as good. It also sounds like there is comb filtering issues with it.

Thanks for the reply - that's interesting.

Now my question, and I understand this is awkward given Danny is here in the thread (Hi Danny!  :icon_lol:), so if you want to DM me the response I fully understand.

On Danny's upgrade - the cost is pushing (close-enough) to territory of other good speakers.  Emotiva B2+ as just one example, RP-600M if/when on  sale, the polk r200 which was just on sale for $500, etc.   Does this upgrade (assuming you've been able to compare to other speakers that is) - push these healthily above those?  If not, I'm now inclined to just keep them stock.  Then just use the upgrade money towards future better speakers.  But if it turns them into "you'll need to spend at least $1k to beat them" territory, then it's still worth considering.

I caveat all of this by saying, yes, I understand a lot of this is subjective to the individual.  Things can sound "different" but not "better" etc etc etc blah blah blah lol.  I'm just looking for general thoughts and opinions :) Thank you!!
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: yoster on 3 Oct 2023, 07:15 pm
The upgrade mentioned in the link is not at all like what we offer. We designed an upgraded based on the actual response of the drivers and the measurements are the actual measurements of the new design. We reconfigured the range the driver operate in. We readjusted the crossover points, improved the vertical and horizontal off axis response and addressed the resonance in the woofers response by notching it out. Our kit also replaces the binding posts. Ours even includes half of a sheet of No Rez to control cabinet resonances.

The one in the link has response measurements generated in a software package. "These response graphs are generated by XSim"

Not apples and oranges.....

Thanks Danny!  I've seen a lot of your videos and it's clear you turn out the highest of quality equipment.  Appreciate your specific information and comparisons there.
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: fre11111 on 3 Oct 2023, 08:30 pm
Hello! New here and wanted to pick your brains.

I picked up a set of SSCS5's on marketplace for a whopping $49.57.  They were in "acceptable" condition according to amazon.. but upon receiving.. they were sealed new.. score!!

Anywho, of course now, I'm looking at these crossover upgrades.  So, here's my question.

I see various ones out there.  I see this one:
https://www.nbdesigns.work/shop/p/modifications-for-sony-ss-cs5-speakers

I also see one by GR Research and a few youtubers.

I'm primarily interested in the URL link above (this is also the one that cheap audio man recommended), but my question is this.  Is the 'methodology' between the various versions all similar?  Is one inherently better than another etc?  I'm inclined to go with the $20 PDF from NBD and do it myself.. any feedback from anyone here who has done that one?

Thank you!!

Hi Yoster,

Welcome. The answer is Yes, they are different from each other. I have experience building the Gr Research crossover  and the design you are looking at that was promoted by CHEAPAUDIOMAN. The Gr Research crossover is far superior.

Frederick
frederickdelrosario111@gmail.com
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: Danny Richie on 3 Oct 2023, 09:30 pm
Ok, so can’t turn it into a tower design.  Thank goodness. 😁

I’m curious… is there any benefit to building a better cabinet, same internal volume, same width front baffle, with thicker MDF panels so it’s more rigid than the factory cabinet, or will making ANY cabinet change cause a variance not designed for?  In other words, would a better cabinet actually be “bad”?

Once that little cabinet is lined with No Rez it's fine for the application.
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: Danny Richie on 3 Oct 2023, 09:36 pm
On Danny's upgrade - the cost is pushing (close-enough) to territory of other good speakers.  Emotiva B2+ as just one example, RP-600M if/when on  sale, the polk r200 which was just on sale for $500, etc.   Does this upgrade (assuming you've been able to compare to other speakers that is) - push these healthily above those?  If not, I'm now inclined to just keep them stock.  Then just use the upgrade money towards future better speakers.  But if it turns them into "you'll need to spend at least $1k to beat them" territory, then it's still worth considering.

Those other speakers that you just mentioned need an upgrade as much as the Sony's, and we've designed upgrades for them too.

I would be willing to bet that the upgraded Sony's will give jmimac351's Wilson Duette's a run for their money in all areas except bass extension. And I think those Wilsons were mentioned to have originally sold for $15,695.
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: mkrawcz on 3 Oct 2023, 10:05 pm
Thanks for the reply - that's interesting.

Now my question, and I understand this is awkward given Danny is here in the thread (Hi Danny!  :icon_lol:), so if you want to DM me the response I fully understand.

On Danny's upgrade - the cost is pushing (close-enough) to territory of other good speakers.  Emotiva B2+ as just one example, RP-600M if/when on  sale, the polk r200 which was just on sale for $500, etc.   Does this upgrade (assuming you've been able to compare to other speakers that is) - push these healthily above those?  If not, I'm now inclined to just keep them stock.  Then just use the upgrade money towards future better speakers.  But if it turns them into "you'll need to spend at least $1k to beat them" territory, then it's still worth considering.

I caveat all of this by saying, yes, I understand a lot of this is subjective to the individual.  Things can sound "different" but not "better" etc etc etc blah blah blah lol.  I'm just looking for general thoughts and opinions :) Thank you!!
Excluding the output capability and the bass response, the upgraded Sonys are better than the XLS Encores and not quite as good as the NX Studios. Just the XLS encores typically compete with $3-5k speakers. The Sonys are really that good. But they need to be in a smaller room.
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: tizenketto on 4 Oct 2023, 04:28 pm
I just finished the SSCS5 upgrade. I never owned or considered Sony speakers before. I listened to those speakers stock for about 1 week so maybe between 35- 40 hours total (driven by Nikko Alpha/Beta II) and my impression was that they are OK stock but somewhat congested in the mid range. Kind of what I expected from cheap Sony speakers ($123 on Amazon). Stock they would not be something I would want to listen to all day but I felt I should get a good baseline before doing the upgrade.

Wow, what a difference the upgrade made. It was like clouds cleared and the sun came out. I have to let you know my listening tastes are jazz, classical, orchestral, and 60's and 70's R&B.  The bass is beautiful; clear and strong (Dave Holland and Ron Carter) and the mid range congestions is gone (lots of Freddie Hubbard and Chet Baker). I am quite impressed. Listening to some Bernard Hermann and Henry Mancini film sound tracks, recorded in 50's and 60's that I played before the conversion sound clearer, more detailed after.

I had to listen to one of my Philly favorites, the Delfonics 'Didn't I Blow your Mind.' I think this should be theme song for these Souped-up Sony's.

Thanks for this Danny! Makes me want to build one of your kits. I was considering building Wayne Parham's four pi speakers but now I am rethinking that.

My wife already told me I don't "need" any more speakers. What does she know?
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=257227)
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: jmimac351 on 5 Oct 2023, 05:16 am
Thanks for the reply - that's interesting.

Now my question, and I understand this is awkward given Danny is here in the thread (Hi Danny!  :icon_lol:), so if you want to DM me the response I fully understand.

On Danny's upgrade - the cost is pushing (close-enough) to territory of other good speakers.  Emotiva B2+ as just one example, RP-600M if/when on  sale, the polk r200 which was just on sale for $500, etc.   Does this upgrade (assuming you've been able to compare to other speakers that is) - push these healthily above those?  If not, I'm now inclined to just keep them stock.  Then just use the upgrade money towards future better speakers.  But if it turns them into "you'll need to spend at least $1k to beat them" territory, then it's still worth considering.

I caveat all of this by saying, yes, I understand a lot of this is subjective to the individual.  Things can sound "different" but not "better" etc etc etc blah blah blah lol.  I'm just looking for general thoughts and opinions :) Thank you!!

As I understand it, the forum frowns on certain individuals, like Danny, very directly criticizing a competitor's product - even if he's 100% right.  I think you'll find that Danny is going to be very polite on here with respect to that path, but will be happy to discuss with you if you reach out.  Danny is extremely patient with questions and answers with specifics for the "why?".  I have spent a lot of time watching his videos and, the thing is, he doesn't just make claims - he backs it up with data / measurements and explains what's going on.  That has helped me get a feel for how he goes about doing things and it builds a lot of confidence.  For each of the speakers on his site, there is full data showing the measurements.  My view on the "money for what you get" issue is very dramatically evolving.  In fact, you know where I see claims being made without measurement data to back them up?...Most other speaker manufacturer websites.

If you haven't already, watch this video and you'll see where he explains how it's not just a "different crossover design", he's changed the strategy for how the drivers interact with one another in terms of the frequency ranges they cover.  When you look at the number and quality of parts, the crossover costs what it costs.

Danny has mentioned this speaker relative to my Wilson Duette, and I don't think his comments are hyperbole.  I plan to order the upgrade this week and fully expect the result to be much greater than just the sum of the parts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upVyx7G5T2U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upVyx7G5T2U)
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: Danny Richie on 6 Oct 2023, 02:42 pm
jmimac351,

Very well said. Thank you.
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: jmimac351 on 9 Oct 2023, 01:38 pm
Since the Sony box is not "big", and there are quite a few crossover parts... does it make a substantive difference in measurement if the parts are not in the box? I.e., does the volume displaced by a bunch of crossover parts change things if they are there / not there?
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: Danny Richie on 9 Oct 2023, 04:51 pm
Since the Sony box is not "big", and there are quite a few crossover parts... does it make a substantive difference in measurement if the parts are not in the box? I.e., does the volume displaced by a bunch of crossover parts change things if they are there / not there?

It is not enough to be a problem. How much or how little the amount of insulation you add or don't add will have a greater impact on the volume.
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: jmimac351 on 10 Oct 2023, 01:05 pm
So this is the 10 degree off axis measurement of the upgraded Sony that GR Research has posted vs measurement for the Wilson Audio Duette I own.  I overlayed the measurements on each other.  The Wilson measurement was done in an anechoic laboratory in Canada and published in a review on Soundstage.  So, go read Soundstage as they deserve credit for it. 

The Duette measurement was done on-axis, but I have to listen to them way off axis... spread way apart, pointed straight ahead.  I think maybe I see why it wants to peel my face off if pointed at me. I have a hunch these speakers might sound a little different from one another...  :green:

Oh, uhhh... the Sony is in RED


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=257405)


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=257406)
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: jmimac351 on 27 Oct 2023, 02:00 am
(https://media.giphy.com/media/ztujni1w6RR96/giphy.gif)

(https://media.tenor.com/images/f275448a47b765a8913bd9129325b28b/tenor.gif)

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258058)
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: jmimac351 on 27 Oct 2023, 02:16 am
It really is a cool speaker... we'll see how it stacks up.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Wilson-Duette/i-5VCDFzg/0/800a6cd9/L/Image%2010-26-23%20at%2010.12%E2%80%AFPM-L.jpg)
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: Tyson on 27 Oct 2023, 02:34 am
Hell Yeah!!!!
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: jmimac351 on 30 Oct 2023, 02:42 pm
AirTags are cool...inside a wooden crate, on a semi truck...


(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258153)
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: mkrawcz on 30 Oct 2023, 03:01 pm
This might  be a very interesting upgrade video.
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: goggle1824 on 30 Oct 2023, 03:12 pm
Sorry if this was too obvious, but these are headed to Danny and crew?
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: jmimac351 on 30 Oct 2023, 03:17 pm
Sorry if this was too obvious, but these are headed to Danny and crew?

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/4e/13/88/4e13889c121f49f82aa1bd12e59056a9.gif)
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: jmimac351 on 30 Oct 2023, 03:18 pm
Danny needed a box to put the Sony upgrade parts in so he could ship it to me, so I sent him a crate...
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: Presb4 on 31 Oct 2023, 03:17 am
Im ready, cant wait.... :popcorn:
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: jmimac351 on 31 Oct 2023, 11:27 pm
Im ready, cant wait.... :popcorn:

What did the lizard say when his tail fell off?  It won't be long now...  :green:

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Wilson-Duette/i-Lvj4SvZ/0/572d00be/L/Screenshot%202023-10-31%20at%207.22.58%E2%80%AFPM-L.png)

Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: Hobbsmeerkat on 1 Nov 2023, 11:21 pm
The Duette has arrived safely, and we just finished testing it.
We'll have some very interesting measurements soon.  :wink:
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: jmimac351 on 1 Nov 2023, 11:42 pm
Wilson Audio Duette / Crossover Upgrade... New Thread, including measurements from below move here:

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=187454.msg1965091#new
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: goggle1824 on 1 Nov 2023, 11:44 pm
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: mkrawcz on 1 Nov 2023, 11:52 pm
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: Danny Richie on 2 Nov 2023, 09:46 pm
The on axis response:   It looks like they did not compensate for the baffle step loss at all. So there is quite a swing from 300Hz to 600Hz.

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258239)

The horizontal off axis:

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258240)

The vertical off axis:

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258241)

Changing the supplied tweeter resistors:

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258242)

Raw drivers versus the on axis measured response:

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258243)

The impedance curve showed a little internal resonance near the port tuning:

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258244)

The spectral decay was pretty clean:

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=258245)


Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: mkrawcz on 2 Nov 2023, 09:54 pm
That’s ridiculous
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: Tyson on 2 Nov 2023, 10:00 pm
I think we now see why the speaker sounds so 'hot'.

That's so bad it makes me wonder if some part of the crossover got knocked loose during shipping. 
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: mkrawcz on 2 Nov 2023, 10:04 pm
I think we now see why the speaker sounds so 'hot'.

That's so bad it makes me wonder if some part of the crossover got knocked loose during shipping.
I’ve seen how Wilson crossovers are made. They encase them in resin so I doubt that.
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: Danny Richie on 2 Nov 2023, 10:34 pm
I think we now see why the speaker sounds so 'hot'.

That's so bad it makes me wonder if some part of the crossover got knocked loose during shipping.

Check the measurements that Jim posted on page two that were taken by the NRC. They match mine really well.
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: Tyson on 2 Nov 2023, 10:41 pm
Check the measurements that Jim posted on page two that were taken by the NRC. They match mine really well.

Oh, right you are!  It was just so scaled out it was harder to see:

(https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/speakers/wilson_duette/frequency_on1530.gif)
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: jmimac351 on 2 Nov 2023, 11:19 pm
Created a new thread for this Wilson Duette speaker.  The Sony is awesome!!

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=187454.new#new
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: jmimac351 on 19 Dec 2023, 02:43 pm
Frederick just finished a set of Sony crossovers for me.  Looking forward to playing with these in my $63 Sony SS-CS5 speakers  :green:

I thought about having him mount these to a single board for each speaker, as I'm not sure I am going to put them inside the speakers.  It occurred to me it's best to build them as separate boards, so I could have that flexibility down the road to put them inside the enclosures. 

The output wires will be 40" long (extra long so I can trim to suit), as I may mount them on the column of the stand and / or make an enclosure for them, similar to my Wilson Duette project.  Rather than introducing another set of connections in a crossover enclosure, the wires will run straight from the crossover to tube connectors on the speaker enclosure.

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=259825&size=xlarge)
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: goggle1824 on 19 Dec 2023, 03:07 pm
That looks like a seriously well laid-out crossover, neat and tidy! Following with much interest!
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: mkrawcz on 20 Dec 2023, 12:08 am
Frederick just finished a set of Sony crossovers for me.  Looking forward to playing with these in my $63 Sony SS-CS5 speakers  :green:

I thought about having him mount these to a single board for each speaker, as I'm not sure I am going to put them inside the speakers.  It occurred to me it's best to build them as separate boards, so I could have that flexibility down the road to put them inside the enclosures. 

They have to be on separate boards if going in the speaker as there is no room for one board.
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: jmimac351 on 20 Dec 2023, 12:47 am
They have to be on separate boards if going in the speaker as there is no room for one board.

Yep, that's why we did separate boards - I can do it either way. I should have them Saturday. :rock:
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: jmimac351 on 24 Dec 2023, 01:45 am
Frederick making me look good with Sony SS-CS5 crossovers...  :rock:

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=259946&size=large)

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=259947&size=large)

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=259948&size=large)

Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: Danny Richie on 24 Dec 2023, 03:58 pm
I can't wait to hear a comparison of the stock Wilsons compared to the modified Sony's.
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: mkrawcz on 24 Dec 2023, 04:17 pm
I can't wait to hear a comparison of the stock Wilsons compared to the modified Sony's.
I can’t wait to hear the comparison of the upgraded Wilson’s compared fm the Sony’s.  :D
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: jmimac351 on 24 Dec 2023, 04:52 pm
I can't wait to hear a comparison of the stock Wilsons compared to the modified Sony's.

I can’t wait to hear the comparison of the upgraded Wilson’s compared fm the Sony’s.  :D

It's probably going to be a real headache that will require counseling.

"Yeah, but the Wilson's don't need a sub"

"Well, for the same money as the Wilson's, I could have a pair of Otica in their spot and the Sony's that are easy to carry around, and still enough money for Chic-fil-A."

"But they are cool... they have an 8" driver and Danny hasn't made a 2-way with his 8" driver, yet".

"But the Wilson's are nice and special, and I like owning nice things."

"Well, she's OK with me having all of these speakers, and I'm having fun anyway..."

The handy part is the SVS subs allow presets.  So I can have a preset for the Sony's and a preset for the Duette.  My Ayre VX-5 Twenty amp (which I absolutely LOVE - Zero Negative Feedback) has 2 sets of Cardas binding posts on the back.  Besides, I'll have tube connectors.  I'll be able to swap in a different setup in seconds / hit a preset on the sub...

I wonder if this will be a bit of a story where measurements don't quite tell the entire story.  The 8" Scan-Speak driver in the Duette is no joke, and there's no replacement for displacement... but the narrower baffle of the Sony...

You see? A real headache.  The struggle is real! 
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: Tyson on 24 Dec 2023, 07:13 pm
The Wilsons have a seriously good cabinet and outstanding drivers.  Once you get in the upgraded crossovers, I doubt very many speakers in the world will come close to them.  And they look very cool. 

IMO the NX-Oticas with triple OB subs will be better, but that's because I like OB speakers better than box speakers. 
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: jmimac351 on 26 Dec 2023, 12:24 am
I knew there was a reason why I've been saving these boxes for years!  Don't listen to her when she says you need to throw them away!

The board fit in the box with a friction fit... Like A Glove!  Ha!  Frederick must be a "Brother of the Leaf". :thumb:

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=260004&size=large)

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=260001&size=xlarge)

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=260002&size=xlarge)

(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=260003&size=xlarge)
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: jmimac351 on 26 Dec 2023, 12:28 am
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=260006)
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: goggle1824 on 26 Dec 2023, 12:59 am
 :rotflmao:  :lol:
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: mkrawcz on 26 Dec 2023, 01:01 am
Alright that’s it. Frederick has inspired me to build a set of external crossovers for the Sonys. They won’t be as nice as his, but I think external is the way to go with these.
Title: Re: Sony SSCS5 Upgrade
Post by: snaimpally on 26 Dec 2023, 01:17 am
I have a pair of Sony SSC5 that I tried out for a few months. Bought new from Amazon. Still have the original boxes. If anyone is interested in buying them to upgrade, just shoot me a message.