[Daniel]

I've been having a great time learning about vintage tuners at fmtunerinfo.com.  Jim's shootouts are a hoot.  I expect I'll follow the well-trod path of buying a used Sansui TU 717 (or a 517 if one turns up) on Ebay and mailing it off for mods and alignment.  The ubiquity of these tuners on ebay makes for relatively stable pricing and easy re-sale.  More importantly, they look cool.  doug s. back in the mists of time recommended Ed Hanlon of http://www.antennaperformance.com as the man to do the surgery.

I have some questions:
1)  Anybody want to sell a nice tuner?
2)  Should I make any special requests regarding the mods? I live in Manhattan, where multipath problems are likely to be a major issue.  Is it possible to get special "urban" mods?
3)  There's no way for me to rig up an outdoor antenna in my building.  Any recommendations regarding indoor antennas?

[doug s.]

I've been having a great time learning about vintage tuners at fmtunerinfo.com.  Jim's shootouts are a hoot.  I expect I'll follow the well-trod path of buying a used Sansui TU 717 (or a 517 if one turns up) on Ebay and mailing it off for mods and alignment.  The ubiquity of these tuners on ebay makes for relatively stable pricing and easy re-sale.  More importantly, they look cool.  doug s. back in the mists of time recommended Ed Hanlon of http://www.antennaperformance.com as the man to do the surgery ...

hi daniel,

aps isn't the only place for mods, but if yure in nyc, it may be the most conwenient, as ed hanlon is in connecticut.  stephen sank in albuquerque is excellent - he modded, aligned, & refurb'd my harmon-kardon citation 18 & it is a truly amazing thing.  he also did my mcintosh mr65b, & it too, is great, tho i prefer my hk.  and, bill ammons, on the fmtunainfo site, is also highly recommended.

re: buying a tuna, if ya wanna pay top dollar (relatively!   ), i have a mcintosh mr77 that i recently picked up.  it's supposedly mac's best-sounding s/s tuna, according to a lot of mac lovers that have sampled many different units.  to tell ya the truth, i am not all that impressed - it's nice, for sure, but i like several of mine better.  a coupla folk think it may be in need of a standard service & alignment, which i understand mcintosh does for a wery reasonable fee.  personally, i am not a big fan of the mac look, so i am kinda unsure if i wanna get it aligned, or yust let it go...  if yure really into the mac stuff, this would be a nice unit - it's really in good shape.  and, even after getting it serviced/aligned, it would still be cheap by new tuner standards - ie: the ubiquitous magnum-dynalab tuners.  and, i am sure it will give *any* m-d a sonic run, even in its present condition!  

doug s.

[Daniel]

Thanks doug!  I'm not a big fan of the McIntosh look either, truth be told, certainly not enough to pay the $400-$500 fmtunerinfo says they typically fetch on Ebay.  Someone else would probably enjoy it more.  If I were to buy it I'd definitely get it aligned and modded, though.  Perhaps the guy who did your mr65b would take it on.  I'm glad to know that you refurbished an mr65b and are getting pleasure out of it.  Now THATS a vintage piece.  I wasn't even born when it was built.

[cjr888]

If you're in NY, you might also want to talk to Don Scott in NJ.  He may have some laying around that are already modded, but even if not, if you contact him just for suggestion, he will ask you your exact situation and suggest a tuner, and mod to meet _your_ needs.  Prices were awfully cheap the last time I inquired, and he's extremely willing to provide you with as much information as you're willing to listen to.

[Daniel]

Don Scott, eh?  How may I reach him?

[cjr888]

bdscott@nac.net.
Goes by BDScott on Audiogon.
Have his number somewhere around here, but terrific guy to speak with.

[doug s.]

If you're in NY, you might also want to talk to Don Scott in NJ.  He may have some laying around that are already modded, but even if not, if you contact him just for suggestion, he will ask you your exact situation and suggest a tuner, and mod to meet _your_ needs.  Prices were awfully cheap the last time I inquired, and he's extremely willing to provide you with as much information as you're willing to listen to.

i would *never* send *any* tuna to don scott, neither would i purchse one from him - he does not do alignment or mods with proper electronic testing gear.  and, many filters used for tunas are not measuring as they are labeled.  it's hit or miss if something he works on sounds better than before he worked on it.  and it's extremely unlikely that it will sound as good as it could if someone who uses proper test gear did the work...

i posted similar info on an a-gon thread about this, info that was corroberated by the folks on the yahoo fmtuner & fmtunerinfo sites - audiogon promptly deleted the thread, & all traces of it.  hmmm...  a-gon is ok for buying & selling stuff, but their forums are censored in favor of their comercial interests;  i *never* participate there any more...

anyway, go to the yahoo tuner forum, & ask what the general feeling is about don scott...  

caveat emptor...

doug s.

[Gordy]

Hi Daniel,  If you're serious about the Sansui, hold out for a 717!  Ed Hanlon did a A-One job on updating/refurbishing my 717, couldn't be happier one year later.

As far as indoor antenna's go, I have yet to find anything (in my location) that beats a $1.99 loop except Ed's very large and butt ugly indoor ant., especially from 91 on down.  I'm not sure he still sells 'em though, you might try contacting him about it.

[Daniel]

Thanks for the heads up.  I'm sorry to hear it.  I had a friendly e-mail from Don Scott.  He turned me on to a Luxman 110 that was in the wrong category.  I got home 2 minutes too late to make a final bid.  It wound up selling for about $100.  What a bummer.  I get the sense he may be a good writer and an honest business man but perhaps a lousy engineer.  He had a couple tuners for sale but nothing I wanted.  He disparages the Sansui 717's, by the way, which had seemed to me to be a relatively budget way into decent radio sound.

Now I'm a man without a plan.

[doug s.]

Thanks for the heads up.  I'm sorry to hear it.  I had a friendly e-mail from Don Scott.  He turned me on to a Luxman 110 that was in the wrong category.  I got home 2 minutes too late to make a final bid.  It wound up selling for about $100.  What a bummer.  I get the sense he may be a good writer and an honest business man but perhaps a lousy engineer.  He had a couple tuners for sale but nothing I wanted.  He disparages the Sansui 717's, by the way, which had seemed to me to be a relatively budget way into decent radio sound.

Now I'm a man without a plan.

yes, i spoke w/don a few times myself, before i learned about his "methods".  imo, he is *not* an honest biz man; especially after i read his posts on the a-gon thread - before it was deleted.

i was also watching that luxman tuna, but i really don't need any more tunas presently...  it's yust that i get a hankering to try different stuff.     but, to be honest, from what other folk say, the lux wouldn't be at the top of my list, if i were looking for *one* good tuna for my main fm source.  don't fret, ya will find something that like, w/o having to spend an exhorbitant amount.  and, i'd still keep an eye out for the sansui 517/717 - quite nice regardless of what mr scott sez about it...

also, i nabbed a philips 185 & a technics st-8600, both were <$40 each, & they sound fantastic, even stock.  right up there w/my onix bwd-1/soap-2.  certainly better than the mac mr77, tho the mac may benefit from an alignment/service.  of course, the philips & the technics have not been serviced either!  

if ya haven't awreddy been, check out this site, it's pretty cool:

http://www.fmtunerinfo.com

please also note that jim rivers, who does the shoot-outs there, still prefers his modded kenwood kt-7500 (read: cheap) better than any of the top tuna he's reviewed...

hth,

doug s.

[Merle]

One more recommandation for Antenna Performance. I have a Realistic analog tuner modded by them that frankly, I'd put up with most any other tuner out there. It picks up EVERYTHING on the dial. It sounds fricken fantastic. I paid $85 for it on Audiogon!  

[JoshK]

I am really happy with my Yamaha T300.  I was listening to it a lot this weekend.  I picked it up for $60 shipped I *think* on ebay.  I like the looks of it, which is superficial but still important to my wife and decor.  It is slim and black but still an analog tuner.   I have had two Sansui tuners in the past, the 719, and a 919?  Can't remember exactly but I would put this Yamaha in the same league but it certainly is more appealing to look at, IMO.

[mcrespo71]

Yeah, nothing beats a tuner for background music while your doing work around the house.  Plus, there is some amazing programming on some of the quality stations (e.g., WBGO 88.3).  As I've said before, I listen to my tuner more than my CD player.

Michael

[doug s.]

Yeah, nothing beats a tuner for background music while your doing work around the house.  Plus, there is some amazing programming on some of the quality stations (e.g., WBGO 88.3).  As I've said before, I listen to my tuner more than my CD player.

Michael

the sound i get from a good fm station is easily on par w/that of my not-too-shabby other sources.  i listen to fm a lot - even from the "sweet spot"

doug s.

[Daniel]

I contacted Don Scott to ask him about the allegation that he does not use the right gear for alignment.  Reputations are fragile after all.  Here is his e-mail response:

I cannot figure this person's motive in discrediting me (Ryan?)-
perhaps jealousy. He isn't nor has ever been my customer. I have one of
the better signal generators around, RCA WR52A, which is the recommended
signal generator in all the McIntosh service manuals. Also, I have
several other pieces of test gear, but YES, as in the final analysis of
all audio equipment, it is my ears that made/make me one of the most
respected audio reviewers. Also, my wife is a trained audiologist with
35-years experience, and she always gives me a second opinion.
    Another factor to consider is that I was the chief engineer of five
radio stations, so I think I know what good FM sounds like from the
transmission end. It is not like upgrading a CD player, where the same
disc can be played over and over for comparison. Judgments as to the
authenticity of announcers' voices have to be made. I always want the
announcer to sound like he/she is sitting in the room.
    I also noticed that there was a statement about me not using test
equipment when I wrote for Stereophile. I had a Sencore SG-80 on loan
from Sencore and had to return it when I stopped writing for the
magazine. The agreement was to mention it in the Measurement Section of
a review, which I could no longer fulfill. In addition, I worked for a
radio communications company in Hartford, CT at the time, and was able
to use two Motorola 20002R signal generators/receivers/spectrum
analyzers, worth $20,000 each and were the most spectrally pure signal
generators known in the industry.
    So...........it is all smoke. I don't know of any complaints from
about 200 happy upgraded tuner owners. In lies the truth. All the good
feedback on Audiogon was not written by my mother --- either read my
customer feedback or though DISCUSSION FORUMS, ARCHIVES, enter Don
Scott.
    You may re-post this if you like. In the real world, there has been
character assassination, which is an illegal no-no.
Don

[doug s.]

I contacted Don Scott to ask him about the allegation that he does not use the right gear for alignment. Reputations are fragile after all. Here is his e-mail response:

Quote:
I cannot figure this person's motive in discrediting me (Ryan?)-
perhaps jealousy. He isn't nor has ever been my customer. I have one of
the better signal generators around, RCA WR52A, which is the recommended
signal generator in all the McIntosh service manuals. Also, I have
several other pieces of test gear, but YES, as in the final analysis of
all audio equipment, it is my ears that made/make me one of the most
respected audio reviewers. Also, my wife is a trained audiologist with
35-years experience, and she always gives me a second opinion.
Another factor to consider is that I was the chief engineer of five
radio stations, so I think I know what good FM sounds like from the
transmission end. It is not like upgrading a CD player, where the same
disc can be played over and over for comparison. Judgments as to the
authenticity of announcers' voices have to be made. I always want the
announcer to sound like he/she is sitting in the room.
I also noticed that there was a statement about me not using test
equipment when I wrote for Stereophile. I had a Sencore SG-80 on loan
from Sencore and had to return it when I stopped writing for the
magazine. The agreement was to mention it in the Measurement Section of
a review, which I could no longer fulfill. In addition, I worked for a
radio communications company in Hartford, CT at the time, and was able
to use two Motorola 20002R signal generators/receivers/spectrum
analyzers, worth $20,000 each and were the most spectrally pure signal
generators known in the industry.
So...........it is all smoke. I don't know of any complaints from
about 200 happy upgraded tuner owners. In lies the truth. All the good
feedback on Audiogon was not written by my mother --- either read my
customer feedback or though DISCUSSION FORUMS, ARCHIVES, enter Don
Scott.
You may re-post this if you like. In the real world, there has been
character assassination, which is an illegal no-no.
Don

it's not yust ryan, it's also a coupla other folk from the yahoo fmtuner forum, who had to undo messes in tunas sent to them, which had prewiously been *upgraded* by mr. scott.  filters, which are used to improve selectivity of tunas need to be measured & matched, as they are often way out of spec - their walues often aren't what's written on 'em.  don doesn't seem to be interested in measuring them.  

a while back, i responded to a thread on a-gon asking about mr scott's services.  (a buddy i know, who knows i normally awoid agon forums, but knows i'm into tuna, sent me a link to the thread.)  when i, and others familiar w/don's work posted unflattering comments, which don tried, but failed miserably to refute, the thread mysteriously vanished into thin air.  not yust locked, but completely gone.

this was my 1st re-wisit to a-gon's forums in a coupla years, cuz i was disgusted about their protection of commercial vendors & mfr's at the expense of truth; my distaste at how they dealt with that thread insured that it was my last...

ymmv,

doug s.

[Mike Doyle]

All this motivates me to ask for advice as intended to ask for awhile.

I purchased a Marantz 150 a few years back for $50. I was not sure
how well it worked but since it included a good wood cabinet what
the hell. By the way, probably needs align and some parts and scope works.

I feel there is room for a refurb budget because of initial investment.

Any suggestions for the right tech for the job? Any special advice on project.?

[doug s.]

i would recommend ed hanlon (ct), bill ammons (az), mike zucarro (ca), stephen sank (nm), or ryan huizenga (mi).  mike isn't into mods, the others are.  any of 'em will do a great job, imo...  all but stephen sank can be found at the yahoo tuna site, or its related site fmtunerinfo.com.  stephen sank is the proprietor of talking dog transducers...  (ed hanlon is proprietor of antenna performance specialties.)  if ya wanna do mods, i'd talk w/the tech(s), directly, to see what they recommend.

doug s.

All this motivates me to ask for advice as intended to ask for awhile.

I purchased a Marantz 150 a few years back for $50. I was not sure
how well it worked but since it included a good wood cabinet what
the hell. By the way, probably needs align and some parts and scope works.

I feel there is room for a refurb budget because of initial investment.

Any suggestions for the right tech for the job? Any special advice on project.?