AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => The Vintage Circle => Topic started by: SteveFord on 23 Sep 2012, 02:04 pm
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To help get a better feel for the membership's expectations, please feel free to stuff the ballot box.
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To me, vintage is good and old, but not necessarily antique. Kind of like me. :lol:
Doc
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I have kept some skateboards from the late 70s and early 80s. I put them up on Kijiji as "Vintage Skateboards For Sale". I got an unexpected amount of responses and sold them. So looks like late 70s and early 80s constitutes Vintage.
Rocket_New School_Ronny
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Vintage, to me, means old enough for a lot of people to learn that they wish it was still made. Vintage has a positive connotation of goodness, not just oldness. Good enough for their popularity to last through the generations.
It is fun to think that there are products being made today that will be "vintage" in the future. New products with excellent quality, design, appearance and value are all around us.
Does it mean literally, "old wine?"
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Steve:
Congrats on taking over the Vintage Circle. The 80's was for the most part a vast wasteland. To me true vintage is pre 1970.
Jim
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In my mind ..........all the pretty colours :smoke: it would be pre 1980 .
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My main system is from 4 different decades, my amps are from 1997 and are Marantz Model 9 reissues of the 1962 Marantz 9. My preamp/tuner is a circa 1962 McIntosh MX-110. The speakers are Magnepan MG2.5's from 1987, and my CDP is from 1999 a Marantz that was totally rebuilt by Ah Tjoeb. My subs are B&W's from the 2000's.
I've heard many a fine system and I will take mine still. In my humble opinion, tube amplification is superior to all the rest, even if it doesn't test as well as modern gear. Moreover, there has been no real significant improvements to the design since the late 1940's.
My CDP has a tube stage to get it real close to analogue.
I guess I'm a die hard vintage bottlehead.
Jim
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MediumJim,
You made me think (head hurts now).
My junk ranges from 1962 to 2012 with everything somewhere inbetween.
I think that advances have certainly been made in a lot of areas but when you look at something like an old tube tuner, well, they really don't make things like that any more.
There's a certain beauty and elegance in the designs which was lost when electronics became seen as disposable devices.
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Vintage is something old and expensive. Just old and cheap will go to waste bin.
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In the 15 years since I first bought "vintage" gear, the age of the same equipment has increased by 15 years. I know that's obvious, but... um, well, um... Personally I would have a hard time putting 80's gear in the "vintage" category, perhaps because to me "vintage" connotes "before my time." Quite possible a misguided sentiment and obviously not a useful guideline for a group of people.
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Most music from the early 80's is either called classic rock or old school now. I wonder why?
My daughter enjoys her "vintage" system consisting of Met 7s (1983), NAD integrated (early 90's), iPod, and recycled DVD player to spin CDs. Her friends think she is retro-cool. 8)
Why get hung up on a single word?
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Here is an example of why I consider 60s gear Vintage.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4c/Apollo_guidiance_computer_ferrit_core_memory.jpg/570px-Apollo_guidiance_computer_ferrit_core_memory.jpg)(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fb/Agc_rope.jpg)
ROM Core Rope Memory used by NASA.
Software written by MIT programmers was woven into core rope memory by female workers in factories.
Some programmers nickname for the finished product was LOL memory for Little Old Lady memory.
This was the memory used in the Apollo program and was part of the guidance computer in the LEM.
Scotty
Wiki link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rope_memory
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Now that is awesome, *Scotty*. A good reminder of truly how far things have come.
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Vintage gear frequently embodies the KISS rule because at the time there was inadequate or insufficient amounts of technology available to make it so complex that it wouldn't work.
I rebuilt my 1962 Fisher FM 100B back in the 80s, replacing every resistor, capacitor and wire in the chassis. It was time consuming but easy to do. I wouldn't dream of attempting this with more modern tuner circuitry even if I had a schematic.
Scotty
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John, here is a youtube video about Core Rope Memory
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=P12r8DKHsak
Scotty
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I consider vintage gear anything that isn't made anymore. Included on that list is the Technics SL12XX turntable series and the Sony XDR-F1HD digital tuner. There are, for all practical purposes, none left new in the box, nor are there any retailers selling these products. Therefore, these 2 have, in my opinion, moved to the vintage category.
No different then vintage wine or cars.
Wayner
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I consider vintage gear anything that isn't made anymore.
Like a 2010 Macbook Air?
I don't think that definition works so well for me.
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Vintage gear frequently embodies the KISS rule because at the time there was inadequate or insufficient amounts of technology available to make it so complex that it wouldn't work.
I rebuilt my 1962 Fisher FM 100B back in the 80s, replacing every resistor, capacitor and wire in the chassis. It was time consuming but easy to do. I wouldn't dream of attempting this with more modern tuner circuitry even if I had a schematic.
Scotty
There is something to be said about simplicity, many times, less is more! The Western Electric circuit for amplification is simple. effective and really hasn't been improved upon IMHO. This is not to say that the modern type of guy would like the Lush, Bigger than Life soundstage that old tube amps brought to the table....many won't. But for those in love with it, there will be nothing else for them.
(http://ampslab.com/SCHEMATICS/WesternElectricNo91A.jpg)
Jim
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I voted 70's and older, but to me anything prior to the BPC era I consider vintage. Maybe prior to 1983 to be picky. :D
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Here is some memory refreshment for you folks. :thumb:
http://www.classicaudio.com/ads/index.html
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Do those ads ever bring back memories.
I still have all of those old National Lampoons that so many of those ads ran it - thanks for the link!
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Here is an example of why I consider 60s gear Vintage.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4c/Apollo_guidiance_computer_ferrit_core_memory.jpg/570px-Apollo_guidiance_computer_ferrit_core_memory.jpg)(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fb/Agc_rope.jpg)
ROM Core Rope Memory used by NASA.
Software written by MIT programmers was woven into core rope memory by female workers in factories.
Some programmers nickname for the finished product was LOL memory for Little Old Lady memory.
This was the memory used in the Apollo program and was part of the guidance computer in the LEM.
Scotty
Wiki link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rope_memory
This is a ''modern'' Vintage IBM 370/138 DOS-Power/VSE, full 512K ROM, and more virtual storage in VSAM 3320 HDs. Good Times...I even had no belly...rs rs rs
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=22377)
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If you really want vintage, here's a rare shot of the Founding Ladies of AudioCircle, proudly displaying their new laptop.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=68259)
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This is a ''modern'' Vintage IBM 370/138 DOS-Power/VSE, full 512K ROM, and more virtual storage in VSAM 3320 HDs. Good Times...I even had no belly...rs rs rs
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=22377)
Programmed it's predecessor, the 135 with 144K. VSAM and 144K was a match made in hell! The 138/512K was a godsend! Thanks for the "memories".
Mike
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Just a thought: "vintage" = a used component whose current street value is at least equal to its original MSRP.
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for most hobbies, 25 years old is the standard cut-off for what constitutes "vintage". of course, vintage usually also connotes something old "and" desirable. while technically, a ford pinto is "vintage", i don't think it has a lot of appeal to most folks.
ymmv,
doug s.
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Just a thought: "vintage" = a used component whose current street value is at least equal to its original MSRP.
I like that way of looking at it!
Jim
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1970's was my choice.
The 1980's is just too recent to be called 'vintage'
The oldest 1980's could possibly be is 32 years old..
Probably approaching vintage, but not yet there.
So for my take on it, 35 years is minimum for an electronics item to be called vintage.
Plenty of stuff made in the 80's is still in 'common' use. Nothing vintage about that.
My ARC SP-15 was made in 1988 and no way is that item Vintage..
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Anything made before my birth is vintage - so I'm not.
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Re: What Constitutes Vintage or classic?
20 to 40 years old,also depends on how fast technology/idea changes,that's what I think,Ihaven't really thought about it until now.
cheers
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Here is some memory refreshment for you folks. :thumb:
http://www.classicaudio.com/ads/index.html
Well....look at that....I still have...."The Finest Stereo Receiver The World Has Ever Known".... :lol:
(http://www.classicaudio.com/ads/pioSX1010.jpg)
The Pioneer SX-1010....in my basement somewhere.... :?
Along with the Wollensak 8060 8 track recorder....anyone have any blank's.... :lol:
(http://www.classicaudio.com/ads/w/wollensak8054.jpg)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=2781)
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Threshold,
Would love to own one now or 20-30 years ago.
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There is something to be said about simplicity, many times, less is more! The Western Electric circuit for amplification is simple. effective and really hasn't been improved upon IMHO. This is not to say that the modern type of guy would like the Lush, Bigger than Life soundstage that old tube amps brought to the table....many won't. But for those in love with it, there will be nothing else for them.
That's definitely vintage... but V1 and V2 are pentodes (are they not?), which is interesting.
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Perhaps it would be good to distinguish between "vintage" and "classic." To me, "vintage" refers to age and era, but may not necessarily be classic. "Classic" means iconic, a prime example, holds up over time, indicative, etc., and generally includes age and era, but not necessarily. For instance, there are classic designs used in modern and current gear. My 2 cents!
I'm sure that everyone could provide examples of both, as well as current gear that is modeled after vintage and classic designs. The same can be said for music.
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for most hobbies, 25 years old is the standard cut-off for what constitutes "vintage". of course, vintage usually also connotes something old "and" desirable. while technically, a ford pinto is "vintage", i don't think it has a lot of appeal to most folks.
ymmv,
doug s.
I think this is a pretty good rule of thumb. It means as of today anything pre-1987. Not that there wasn't stuff produced beyond those years that we would want to own or collect, but probably hard to consider it "vintage".
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1987 was how long ago?
Time is really speeding up as that seems like not very long ago at all.
Am I the only one who feels that way?
Anybody see where I put my teeth?
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I have Boston Acoustics HD-9 speakers that are 22 years old, Baby Advent II speakers that are 23 years old, and a Yamaha integrated amp that is 23 years old. Not real sure if I would classify them as vintage. They were made after the audio companies started cheapening the components, but they are still working fine today. Replacements of the amp and speakers can be had for less than $100/item.
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Interesting topic and one that will probably always be debated. I bought my Michelle GyroDec 30 years ago but even in another 10 years it won't look like a vintage or classic turntable. On the other hand my McIntosh MA6100 fits nicely into the vintage category by it age and looks.
(http://gargoyle.smugmug.com/Music/music/i-xbsNswL/0/L/P1000238-L.jpg)
(http://gargoyle.smugmug.com/Music/music/i-hcBzRQD/0/L/DSCF9012-L.jpg)
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Good looks never go out of style, do they?
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I think some kind of higher quality has to be present. Otherwise it's just an artifact, not too worthy. The time frame...dunno.
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Before Disco :lol: :lol: :lol:
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I'm a brand spanky new member so maybe I should tread carefully, but here goes.
I regard vintage as anything from the 1930's upward that deserves to be saved. Zenith Stratospheres, some E. H. Scotts, most McMurdo-Silvers and most any Midwest come to mind. Output transformer design was not too hot in the 1930's and that limited frequency response for many radios of the era. Output transformers in the 1920's were horrible, which pretty much eliminates radios from that period.
Modern day tube audio beats the pants off those old radios, but it doesn't come in interesting-looking furniture.
I am not a complete Luddite. Just this a.m., I ordered a Van Alstine Transcendence 8+ preamp to go with a tube amp being custom built for me by a Canadian friend. This will replace Adcom gear which I bought in the 1980's when I was temporarily infected by the SS virus. Haven't listened to it much for at least the last 10 years.
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I think you'll fit in just fine.
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Good looks never go out of style, do they?
My good looks don't, that's for sure! :thumb:
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Thanks, I needed something to cheer me up!
How are those 20.1s treating you?
Oh wait, wrong circle. Never mind.
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Hey!
Wouldn't this depend on the age of the person you ask? As a 30's something crowd I voted for 1980's or older. :D
Take care,
Buddy :thumb:
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Well, at the ripe old age of 71, how about some adventure -- looking for something made in the 1930's you could listen to all day?
My 1937 vintage 16-tube Midwest S-16 console comes to mind, with four 6N6 output tubes, power and output transformers manufactured to a high standard (for the 1930's) by Midwest and a 12" electrodynamic speaker.
This sounds so good I grafted an RCA jack and toggle switch on the back panel so I could listen to an FM tuner or CD player through the S-16. Heresy to an old radio collector, but with the current wretched state of AM broadcasting it's either this or listening to the WWV time signal all day.
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Cerebral mumbling..
As I think about this more, this topic of Vintage, something came into my mind. Much has to do with technology and the product.
For example: A quality fine wine will be a vintage wine someday. More often than not, the older wines will be considered better than the current ones. But a quality computer will be vintage someday, and more often than not, the older computer will worse than the current ones. Also the ever changing technology will make a tech product vintage sooner, than say wine would become vintage...
Audio? Well some tube pieces and some analog equipment that is Vintage is considered superior. Many say here, it can sound better than the best available SS or digital gear. I know I would like to own a Shindo Garrard 301 turntable system....myself.
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Hey!
Wouldn't this depend on the age of the person you ask? As a 30's something crowd I voted for 1980's or older. :D
Take care,
Buddy :thumb:
i dunno... i have ~20 years on ya, and i also woted for '80's - as the 80's gear is now +/-30 years old. :wink:
doug s.
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OK, how about this for a vintage standard...
If a particular piece of gear had four wheels and an internal combustion engine, would it qualify for "pioneer" plates in your state?
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OK, how about this for a vintage standard...
If a particular piece of gear had four wheels and an internal combustion engine, would it qualify for "pioneer" plates in your state?
1993 qualifies where i live...
doug s.
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Is it 25 years for vintage plates?
There's some food for thought as to what vintage components are better than the current ones.
I would say tuners, arguably tubes but I think that everything else has progressed.
One thing that has gone backwards is FM radio itself.
I spoke with a gentleman recently who was the president of one of the major corporate monstrosities that gobbled up all of the local stations and gave them all cookie-cutter play lists to maximize profits.
It's just a cash cow to those guys, they could care less about what gets broadcast. It could be a test tone as long as the advertisers cough up.
Ugh!
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Well put, Mr. Ford. In rural areas, especially, FM radio broadcasting is equally as bad as AM. I am fortunate enough to be within range of both Wyoming and Montana Public Radio translator stations.
Without NPR, FM broadcasting in Northern Wyoming is a vast wasteland.
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Vintage Audio for me is pre-digital playback... there's no such thing as a vintage CD player.
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Is it 25 years for vintage plates?
There's some food for thought as to what vintage components are better than the current ones.
I would say tuners, arguably tubes but I think that everything else has progressed.
One thing that has gone backwards is FM radio itself.
I spoke with a gentleman recently who was the president of one of the major corporate monstrosities that gobbled up all of the local stations and gave them all cookie-cutter play lists to maximize profits.
It's just a cash cow to those guys, they could care less about what gets broadcast. It could be a test tone as long as the advertisers cough up.
Ugh!
re: wehicles, it is only 20 years in md.
re: fm, agreed - thank dog for public radio. not yust npr, but other small non-profit stations. i hope that the competition from internet radio will drive the commercial fm broadcast conglomerates to once again start broadcasting quality diwerse programming, in order to remain relevant. otherwise commercial radio will lose listeners. i have read that auto mfr's are already planning on not offering fm radio in new cars...
re: tuna, there are a small handful of quality fm tuna still being made today, but be prepared to shell out big dollars for them. it makes purchasing a quality wintage tuna a wery reasonable alternative. unless you purchase 50 of 'em... :lol:
re: other equipment, there are a few choice pieces of audio gear that still hold their own w/the modern goods, imo. turntables, speakers, amps... many folks have their pet faves...
doug s.
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Vintage Audio for me is pre-digital playback... there's no such thing as a vintage CD player.
no such thing as a good one, that's for freaking sure! :lol:
doug s.
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re: wehicles, it is only 20 years in md.
re: fm, agreed - thank dog for public radio. not yust npr, but other small non-profit stations. i hope that the competition from internet radio will drive the commercial fm broadcast conglomerates to once again start broadcasting quality diwerse programming, in order to remain relevant. otherwise commercial radio will lose listeners. i have read that auto mfr's are already planning on not offering fm radio in new cars...
re: tuna, there are a small handful of quality fm tuna still being made today, but be prepared to shell out big dollars for them. it makes purchasing a quality wintage tuna a wery reasonable alternative. unless you purchase 50 of 'em... :lol:
re: other equipment, there are a few choice pieces of audio gear that still hold their own w/the modern goods, imo. turntables, speakers, amps... many folks have their pet faves...
doug s.
I dont think broadcasters are interested in remaining relevant. I see FM as a race to the bottom, just like AM radio. Broadcasters want to make a buck, and they see their diminishing audience as knuckle-dragging yahoos and try their best to cater to them.
Eventually, FM broadcasting will disappear, a victim of satellite radio and the internet.
Sort of like the old Beta-VHS battle. VHS won, but then disappeared when DVD's hit the scene. And DVD's are on their way out now.
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imo pre 1970 is vintage, again just my opinion, if your comparing cars its 30 years but audio is different I think and should be because we are not trying to get registration or tax breaks here are we?
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College stations, NPR and a few jazz stations will hopefully keep FM going until I'm too old and toasted to care.
If I never hear Free Bird and Welcome To The Jungle again that will be fine with me.
I can see turntables holding their own and possibly amps, maybe preamps/phono stages but not speakers or at least not planar speakers.
What's available today is so much better than the ones of yore that there's no comparison.
Now I've managed to derail this thread on several different levels!
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Vinyl seems to be making a comeback of sorts. Do you suppose that is due to the popularity of club DJ's and their antics with turntables? Is Stanton still in the TT business because of the club scene? That's what most of their dealer advertising seems to be aimed at.
I guess it is up to us to educate the youngsters. We must demonstrate that one does not get good audio from a computer or Ipod, and the cab of a pickup truck is a lousy place to install 2 or 3 large in stereo equipment.
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I'm sure that's what has kept Stanton going; they abandoned the high end a long time ago with the 991S as far as I know.
My feeling is that so much of the vinyl resurgence lies with people's dissatisfaction with digital - the perfect sound forever really never materialized - along with a helping of nostalgia. Seeing turntables at clubs couldn't hurt things, either.
It was funny seeing some young hipsters getting all excited about an old Captain Beefhart album at a used record store...
There was an article some time back about teen agers dismissing "big stereo" in favor of MP3s but I think they'll come around once the raging hormones settle down a bit and they get places of their own.
After a bit they might even think that their parents weren't such morons after all although that might take 20 or 30 years!
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Vinyl seems to be making a comeback of sorts. Do you suppose that is due to the popularity of club DJ's and their antics with turntables? Is Stanton still in the TT business because of the club scene? That's what most of their dealer advertising seems to be aimed at.
I guess it is up to us to educate the youngsters. We must demonstrate that one does not get good audio from a computer or Ipod, and the cab of a pickup truck is a lousy place to install 2 or 3 large in stereo equipment.
i don't really think it has anything to do w/the dj scene. i think it has more to do w/an initial simple fascination w/an old school technology, and once it is heard, the sound reels 'em in. my daughter, who yust graduated from college, and her boyfriend, got hooked big time. i found a nice wintage empire turntable for my daughter to buy for a present for her boyfriend. (i demo'd it before i bought it, from an old fart like me, w/a nice system - it sounds killer! :green: ) now, it seems they're spending a lot of time at wintage record stores, and my daughter is emailing me w/questions about older groups, and w/her recent "scores"! :thumb:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=67747)
this deck is ~50 years old, and you need to spend $2k or more on something new, to better it, imo...
doug s.
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relevant
doug s.
You mean "relewant" or maybe "relewent" to avoid any mispwonunciwations!
Paul
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You mean "relewant" or maybe "relewent" to avoid any mispwonunciwations!
Paul
:lol:
i was wondering if anyone would notice that! :green:
doug s.
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I dont think broadcasters are interested in remaining relevant. I see FM as a race to the bottom, just like AM radio. Broadcasters want to make a buck, and they see their diminishing audience as knuckle-dragging yahoos and try their best to cater to them.
Eventually, FM broadcasting will disappear, a victim of satellite radio and the internet.
Sort of like the old Beta-VHS battle. VHS won, but then disappeared when DVD's hit the scene. And DVD's are on their way out now.
i agree, but i can only hope that, when the rewenue stops coming in, the broadcasters will rewert to quality programming. cuz the rewenue will be decreasing steadily... i don't think fm is gonna go away any time soon, tho. as the rewenue decreases reach a critical threshold, the "biggies" will be looking for a way to cut their losses, and will start improving content/quality, or the cost of stations will start dropping as they start to bail, allowing lesser-funded "upstarts" a way back in...
doug s.
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I have a 1974 914 Porsche. It has fuel injection but no power windows, no power steering, no power brakes, no electric door locks, etc. It comes at the very tail end of the classic period of cars where carburetors ruled and there was minimal robotic/electronic. I can take apart the dashboard with a screwdriver and a 27mm nut holds on the steering wheel.
Compared to today's disposable goods, in many cases, the classic vintage stuff harkens back to the day when stuff was actually made by humans. And when you "look under the hood" you can actually see and understand what the heck is going on and what went into it. I worked at Dahlquist back in the day and watched my DQ-10's being made. By actual people, no less!
For me at age 57, that holds much of the allure of the old stuff. My Van Alstine stuff is modern but still has the human element. Even though the Linn has been upgraded umpteen times, it still rotates and makes me smile.
I love this hobby.
Paul
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Yeah Dougie. We know you are just listening to the radio when you're typing. Surprising that you type as well as you do!!! 8)
And, Ah, you and me constitute vintage my friend. Or is it antique? I forget...
James
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Yeah Dougie. We know you are just listening to the radio when you're typing. Surprising that you type as well as you do!!! 8)
ain't that the truth! :thumb:
wpfw 89.3
"Night Jazz with Willard Jenkins"
http://www.wpfwfm.org/
the sound is glorious!!! :banana piano: :drums: :guitar:
(http://i1051.photobucket.com/albums/s437/sedond/PICT0001adjusted_zps6b4b3ae5.jpg)
8)
doug s.
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Wow, that Fisher brings back memories of the 1950's, when a few radio stations -- especially in the Minneapolis area -- were permitted to run trial stereo broadcasts (one channel on an FM station, the other on an AM outlet). All this while the FCC was trying to decide on the Zenith/GE or the Crosby stereo FM systems. The gummint finally selected Zenith/GE, which many regarded as the inferior system.
Meanwhile Crosby's manufacturing company, Madison Fielding, marketed a number of high fidelity receivers set up for the Crosby stereo FM system. The father of a friend of mine bought one at a substantial discount, as it wouldn't receive Zenith/GE stereo FM.
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I'll come pick up another loaner tuna from you. But will it work when I get it this time? :wink:
I know that was just some inexplicable anomaly with the other one. My MR78 continues to sound very fine.
It was modded by my guru Brett Mullen.
But I am open to demoing serious Tunas. And you are the noted authority, at least among our circles.
James (Does the "J" resemble an inverted walking cane?)
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I'll come pick up another loaner tuna from you. But will it work when I get it this time? :wink:
I know that was just some inexplicable anomaly with the other one. My MR78 continues to sound very fine.
It was modded by my guru Brett Mullen.
But I am open to demoing serious Tunas. And you are the noted authority, at least among our circles.
James (Does the "J" resemble an inverted walking cane?)
hey! that tuna i loaned you worked fine when i got it back! what were you doing to it? :lol: seriously, its only issue was the meter itself; it was actually getting signal. i opened it up, wiggled the meter, and it yumped right to life. we can arrange another loaner. but don't break it! :green:
doug s.
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Wow, that Fisher brings back memories of the 1950's, when a few radio stations -- especially in the Minneapolis area -- were permitted to run trial stereo broadcasts (one channel on an FM station, the other on an AM outlet). All this while the FCC was trying to decide on the Zenith/GE or the Crosby stereo FM systems. The gummint finally selected Zenith/GE, which many regarded as the inferior system.
Meanwhile Crosby's manufacturing company, Madison Fielding, marketed a number of high fidelity receivers set up for the Crosby stereo FM system. The father of a friend of mine bought one at a substantial discount, as it wouldn't receive Zenith/GE stereo FM.
why is it that it always seems the lesser quality tech is the one that makes it to market? cd could have been 24/192 from the get-go. beta was better than vhw. oh well...
yup, this fisher 100r is one of many wintage tuna that says "stereo" on it, when it's a mono tuna set up for simulcast broadcasting w/am on one channel and fm on the other. it has a mpx out which i use to send signal to a relatively modern studio-12 decoder; the sound is excellent....
doug s.
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There's some interesting history on the net regarding the Zenith/GE v. Crosby business. Just Google Zenith/GE v. Crosby FM stereo for several good sites.
Basically, although the Crosby system was better in nearly every regard (frequency response, channel separation, noise rejection, etc.), it was not compatible with mono FM radios currently in American homes. The FCC had already been through the moving of FM to 88-108 MHZ following WWII, thus making all those high-dollar consoles with FM bands sold in the late 1930's instantly obsolete.
Also, many smaller-market FM stations were demodulating their signal somewhat, freeing up some bandwidth which they could sell to Muzak and Storecast for that execrable elevator music we all hated. They would need this bandwidth under the Crosby system, but not under Zenith/GE. Finally, both Zenith and General Electric had much deeper pockets than Crosby and, accordingly, much more influence in D.C.
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There's some interesting history on the net regarding the Zenith/GE v. Crosby business. Just Google Zenith/GE v. Crosby FM stereo for several good sites.
Basically, although the Crosby system was better in nearly every regard (frequency response, channel separation, noise rejection, etc.), it was not compatible with mono FM radios currently in American homes. The FCC had already been through the moving of FM to 88-108 MHZ following WWII, thus making all those high-dollar consoles with FM bands sold in the late 1930's instantly obsolete.
Also, many smaller-market FM stations were demodulating their signal somewhat, freeing up some bandwidth which they could sell to Muzak and Storecast for that execrable elevator music we all hated. They would need this bandwidth under the Crosby system, but not under Zenith/GE. Finally, both Zenith and General Electric had much deeper pockets than Crosby and, accordingly, much more influence in D.C.
the last sentence in your comment made all the difference. :wink:
doug s.
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I know politics is not welcome on this site, but I will risk banishment to say that big money not only influences executive and legislative decision making in D.C., but bureaucratic edicts also. An example of this was the FCC decision to move the FM band from 42-50 MHZ to 88-108 following the war. This was done primarily at the demand of the evil "General" David Sarnoff, head of RCA, who was trying to kill FM broadcasting (he feared it would interfere with television) and, at the same time, continue his ongoing feud with Edwin Armstrong, father of the superheterodyne circuit and, later, FM.
This damn near killed FM broadcasting, which didn't recover until the advent of FM stereo. Sarnoff's continuing battles -- legal and otherwise -- with Armstrong may have been responsible for the latter's unfortunate suicide.
If there is a hell, I hope the General is roasting in the deepest pit, right next to the inventor of aluminum siding.
Couldn't resist that Woody Allen reference...
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Just for you-know-what and giggles, here's some vintage gear from Madison Fielding -- an early receiver possibly equipped to handle FM stereo broadcasts using the Crosby system -- which never happened. I copped this picture from www.radiomuseum.org. I heard one of these in operation numerous times, and if memory serves, it sounded pretty good.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=77473)
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I can't believe I'm the only vote for 1950 and earlier vintage gear.
What about the McIntosh C8 preamp and its companion amplifier? Surviving examples are going for thousands in the audiophile market. I will admit I've never heard one, but they must sound good. Either that, or fools and their monies are being parted.
Must admit I was also tempted to vote for the "layer of dust" choice.
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To me, "Vintage never gets old!"
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I voted 1970s and earlier, and these two items in my main system just make that cut:
(http://jimtranr.com/SX824_10_5_5.jpg)
(http://jimtranr.com/MR77_5.jpg)