[trebejo]

You can also always convert FLAC to Apple Lossless...easy, fast, no change in sound.

Easy? It takes quite a while and duplicates files. I wrote a unix script to automate the process and erase the files immediately after conversion, which helps to avoid the duplicate files but that was a bit of work, not the least bit accessible to your typical Apple customer, and why the hell should Apple users pay Apple above-average money for a product that does that to its users?

Anyway, you miss the point of flac. It's open source. It's free. No corporation can tell you what to do with your music when it is in that format. Thirty years from now, when your DAC is still going strong (get one from Frank  ), your flac will be just as playable. Apple file format? Who knows...

I don't understand why people cut a corporation such as Apple any slack when it screws us over like this. People had a flac collection and Apple intentionally makes it unavailable for playback? Unacceptable...

[trebejo]

If you want to stay with the Mac platform and store files in iTunes, consider layering in Pure Music. He allows for hi rez music and also supports FLAC.

Steve

Thanks, I'll pass that on. Of course we should mention that it costs $99, whereas the slimserver is open source and free.

[Atlplasma]

Actually, I think that was an intro offer. It's now $129. 

[Toka]

Easy? It takes quite a while and duplicates files. I wrote a unix script to automate the process and erase the files immediately after conversion, which helps to avoid the duplicate files but that was a bit of work, not the least bit accessible to your typical Apple customer, and why the hell should Apple users pay Apple above-average money for a product that does that to its users?

Anyway, you miss the point of flac. It's open source. It's free. No corporation can tell you what to do with your music when it is in that format. Thirty years from now, when your DAC is still going strong (get one from Frank  ), your flac will be just as playable. Apple file format? Who knows...

Sure, if you have a huge FLAC library, the batch process will take some time. But you just let it run while you do something else...its not like you have to babysit it or constantly fiddle with it. I never had so many to convert that duplicate files was an issue, and if I did I would just run an Automator script to do the housecleaning for me.

I don't get all this rhetoric about "being told what do with my music"...how are you restricted by using ALAC in any way? Non-Apple products support it (Squeezebox), and it will play on any computer on the planet. FLAC doesn't work on Zune either (which supports WMA Lossless...conspiracy!!  ). And if ALAC support will vanish in some post-apocalyptic version of the future, I will just convert it to whatever is around at the time.

Its really a non-issue, unless you want it to be.

Good call on Frank's DAC, though! 

[trebejo]

I don't get all this rhetoric about "being told what do with my music"...

Yes, there clearly is plenty that you don't get on the topic. What I don't get is why you persist on lecturing others about things that you obviously do not get.

Apple definitely gets it. That is why they make it so difficult for you to use flac in iTunes. Why don't you get that it was very, very wrong to intentionally obstruct flac files in iTunes?

Really, why don't you get that? It is very obvious. Do tell. Why do you use that disrespectful tone towards someone that is giving you a heads-up about how you are getting screwed?

The advice that you gave, to supposedly easily convert files to the apple file format, was clearly bad advice. Why don't you just admit that you made a mistake?

Please, stop giving people bad advice and doing the legwork for a corporation that tries to treat your music files as though it is theirs.

[Toka]

The irony of your post is hilarious. I am being disrespectful? 

Ok, we get it, you don't like Apple. Thats fine. But the notion that people are "getting screwed" because Apple doesn't support one of the many equally suitable lossless formats out there is a bit of a stretch, I have to say. As I said Microsoft won't let you use FLAC on their Zune players either. Big deal. Yes, it would be nice if everything out there supported every format under the sun, but nothing does. And there isn't anything out there (lossless or lossy) that doesn't have at least one equivalent, either. Its a file format, not a religion.

I will admit to making a mistake, and that was attempting to engage in a rational discussion with someone clearly not capable of such.

[DMurphy]

I'm trying to think of a thread that has less relevance to Salk Speakers than this one, but the only one that comes to mind is thread about my new puppy.  No.  Off.  Settle.  Maybe some reports will come in from RMAF and get us back on track. 

[trebejo]

The irony of your post is hilarious. I am being disrespectful? 

Ok, we get it, you don't like Apple. Thats fine. But the notion that people are "getting screwed" because Apple doesn't support one of the many equally suitable lossless formats out there is a bit of a stretch, I have to say. As I said Microsoft won't let you use FLAC on their Zune players either. Big deal. Yes, it would be nice if everything out there supported every format under the sun, but nothing does. And there isn't anything out there (lossless or lossy) that doesn't have at least one equivalent, either. Its a file format, not a religion.

I will admit to making a mistake, and that was attempting to engage in a rational discussion with someone clearly not capable of such.

The problem here is that I was just trying to correct some pretty mistaken lousy advice from you. Instead of just admitting that you had no clue, you proceeded to be disrespectful while, apparently, insisting on sucking up to all things "Apple" regardless of what they may actually be doing.

Now you bring Microsoft into it? Dude, it's the squeezebox that you need to be talking about. Who wanted a Zune player here??

The squeezebox is a better choice for music playback, and support for flac is the most obvious reason why. Just because you refuse to understand it, that doesn't mean that you get a pass on misinforming people. Just man up on having been clueless and move on.

[trebejo]

I'm trying to think of a thread that has less relevance to Salk Speakers than this one, but the only one that comes to mind is thread about my new puppy.  No.  Off.  Settle.  Maybe some reports will come in from RMAF and get us back on track.

Look, if it's that bad, so be it. I see the subject title is "New AppleTV as transport", so as far as I can tell, within the thread, the content is accurate.

Maybe the whole thread should be elsewhere, that certainly is not for me to decide... but Salk speaker purchasers deserve accurate information as much as anyone.

[Toka]

The problem here is that I was just trying to correct some pretty mistaken lousy advice from you. Instead of just admitting that you had no clue, you proceeded to be disrespectful while, apparently, insisting on sucking up to all things "Apple" regardless of what they may actually be doing.

Now you bring Microsoft into it? Dude, it's the squeezebox that you need to be talking about. Who wanted a Zune player here??

The squeezebox is a better choice for music playback, and support for flac is the most obvious reason why. Just because you refuse to understand it, that doesn't mean that you get a pass on misinforming people. Just man up on having been clueless and move on.

All I said was that you can convert from one lossless format to another. That isn't "pretty mistaken lousy advice", its the truth. If that rates as "sucking up to Apple" in your book I don't know what to tell you. And what was that about being disrespectful, again?

I never said a Squeezebox was a bad choice for a transport...in fact, its excellent (and supports ALAC as well as FLAC, oddly enough). If someone has a wealth of different formats and doesn't want to convert it makes an even better choice. I never said anything to the contrary. There is nothing I am "refusing to understand". I understand this sort of thing quite well, thank you.

I mentioned the Zune to show that its not merely an Apple decision to not support FLAC. That part, at the very least, I figured would be obvious.

I don't know why you are taking something as trivial as a file format or music server so personally...its just music, and it will play no matter what you use.

[trebejo]

All I said was that you can convert from one lossless format to another. That isn't "pretty mistaken lousy advice", its the truth. If that rates as "sucking up to Apple" in your book I don't know what to tell you. And what was that about being disrespectful, again?

I guess I need to remind you of what you wrote? "You can also always convert FLAC to Apple Lossless...easy, fast, no change in sound."

Clearly mistaken and lousy advice. There is nothing "easy" or "fast" about it. I stand by my remark. You are disrespectful, among other things, because you distort the record instead of simply admitting that you do not know what you are talking about.

[Toka]

I guess I need to remind you of what you wrote? "You can also always convert FLAC to Apple Lossless...easy, fast, no change in sound."

Clearly mistaken and lousy advice. There is nothing "easy" or "fast" about it. I stand by my remark. You are disrespectful, among other things, because you distort the record instead of simply admitting that you do not know what you are talking about.

This has gone from silly to sad, and I won't comment any further as this has gone too far afield from the purpose of the the thread.

But for those still curious, last night I transferred a live album I purchased in FLAC to ALAC using Max. It took:

1. Maybe 3, 4 clicks to get it going (a 5-year old could do it)

2. Took about 12 seconds per track to convert (faster than re-ripping a disc)

3. Sounded exactly the same.


So, again, very easy, fast, and no loss in sound quality.  Really not that hard to comprehend.

Anyone wanting more info without "input" from trolls can feel free to PM me and I would be happy to oblige. 

[skunark]

I guess I need to remind you of what you wrote? "You can also always convert FLAC to Apple Lossless...easy, fast, no change in sound."

Clearly mistaken and lousy advice. There is nothing "easy" or "fast" about it. I stand by my remark. You are disrespectful, among other things, because you distort the record instead of simply admitting that you do not know what you are talking about.

Actually I find it quite simple and fast to convert between WAV, AIFF, FLAC and Apple Lossless.   It's just a matter of the correct conversion application, disk space, basic knowledge of folders(directories, filesystem) and compute cycles.    Perhaps if one is challenged by any of those aspects then, sure, call it difficult.

[skunark]

This has gone from silly to sad, and I won't comment any further as this has gone too far afield from the purpose of the the thread.

But for those still curious, last night I transferred a live album I purchased in FLAC to ALAC using Max. It took:

1. Maybe 3, 4 clicks to get it going (a 5-year old could do it)

2. Took about 12 seconds per track to convert (faster than re-ripping a disc)

3. Sounded exactly the same.


So, again, very easy, fast, and no loss in sound quality.  Really not that hard to comprehend.

Anyone wanting more info without "input" from trolls can feel free to PM me and I would be happy to oblige. 

Max is a great app for that.  It even allows you to do multiple conversions at once even making the process faster with larger libraries.

[Saturn94]

I'm trying to think of a thread that has less relevance to Salk Speakers than this one, but the only one that comes to mind is thread about my new puppy.  No.  Off.  Settle.  Maybe some reports will come in from RMAF and get us back on track.

I never understood why this thread is here.  Can a moderator move it?

At least the puppy thread involves a key member of the Salk team, and I don't see any needless bickering going on there either.

[trebejo]

This has gone from silly to sad, and I won't comment any further as this has gone too far afield from the purpose of the the thread.

But for those still curious, last night I transferred a live album I purchased in FLAC to ALAC using Max. It took:

1. Maybe 3, 4 clicks to get it going (a 5-year old could do it)

2. Took about 12 seconds per track to convert (faster than re-ripping a disc)

3. Sounded exactly the same.


So, again, very easy, fast, and no loss in sound quality.  Really not that hard to comprehend.

Anyone wanting more info without "input" from trolls can feel free to PM me and I would be happy to oblige. 

All of that work comes to you courtesy of Apple. All that hassle, for no good reason.

You want to give them a pass for that? That's your affair. But calling all that hassle "fast and easy" is dishonest.

You have not outlined all the additional work you had to do: the additional software that you had to install, plus the fact that there is double the storage required (one for the original flac, one for the new apple format that you put there).

All that work, just because Apple tells you you have to do it? It is unjustifiable. They should not try to herd users into their own propietary format when there was already something available that was free and open source.

If you want Apple to succeed in herding all users into their own little format, that's your affair. But the description of "fast and easy" is dishonest.

Salk users deserve to know these things as they evaluate which digital transport to use. Use one that supports flac and you will not have any of these propietary-format headaches.

[srb]

All that hassle, for no good reason.

I haven't found file conversion to be much of a hassle.

But calling all that hassle "fast and easy" is dishonest.

I did find it fast and easy, too.  Dishonest?

But the description of "fast and easy" is dishonest.

You already said that.

Use one that supports flac and you will not have any of these propietary-format headaches.

I also have no headaches.
 
 
 
It would have been nice if Apple had included FLAC capability with iTunes.  I suppose if one would prefer to use FLAC and iTunes, you could use Fluke with it.  The fact is, I use iTunes because I like the intuitive interface and the easy creation of playlists and smart playlists.  I have seen the Squeezeserver operation and interface, and I don't like it as much.  But oddly enough, because of the tone of your posts, I am (albeit wrongly) taking perverse delight in knowing that this bothers you so much.
 
Steve

[trebejo]

Max is a great app for that.  It even allows you to do multiple conversions at once even making the process faster with larger libraries.

Max is a nice app, the most flexible that I know of without using the Terminal. Free, open, etc. It even helps when you rip your files from CD.

Now the multiple conversion, is that drag and drop for each individual album (usually contained in its own directory)? That was so the last time I tried it. If you have, say, 200 albums, that's a lot of dragging and dropping.

XLD is another nice app, I think it's a bit more robust for ripping files, checking for a good rip, etc. That's the one I'm using nowadays.

[trebejo]

It would have been nice if Apple had included FLAC capability with iTunes.  I suppose if one would prefer to use FLAC and iTunes, you could use Fluke with it.  The fact is, I use iTunes because I like the intuitive interface and the easy creation of playlists and smart playlists.  I have seen the Squeezeserver operation and interface, and I don't like it as much.  But oddly enough, because of the tone of your posts, I am (albeit wrongly) taking perverse delight in knowing that this bothers you so much.
 
Steve

Well, that's great for you. You could take some straightforward delight in knowing that Apple is not trying to herd its users into a propietary format that basically makes things into an unnecessary hassle.

You prefer to take delight at other people's annoyance. Good luck with that.

[skunark]

Max is a nice app, the most flexible that I know of without using the Terminal. Free, open, etc. It even helps when you rip your files from CD.

Now the multiple conversion, is that drag and drop for each individual album (usually contained in its own directory)? That was so the last time I tried it. If you have, say, 200 albums, that's a lot of dragging and dropping.

XLD is another nice app, I think it's a bit more robust for ripping files, checking for a good rip, etc. That's the one I'm using nowadays.

Just pick a directory and it will read all the files in a sub-directory. If you computer has multiple cores, say 4, you can ask it to do 4 at a time.    Great open source product to help folks get around the betamax vs vhs digital file format war.  IMO very painless process, it's great.

XLD doesn't seem to be an open source or at least there's no mention of open source or GPL on the website.  But like all of those apps they all end up using the same open source libraries and the core audio libraries.