[zothen]

Hello,

I am considering a pair of LS6's or some open baffle speakers (such as the x-statik's or OB-7s) but I have very limited placement options so I want to find if they will be ok or would I lose much of the benefits of these speakers. 


Firstly, the speakers would only be 6 to 12 inches from the rear of the speakers to the wall behind them.  Will this cause problems with the rear port firing LS6s?  Will this cause any problems with open baffles speakers?  If it matters, I plan on HPF at 40 or 60 Hz for the LS6's and 60 or 80Hz for the open baffle speakers.

Next, these speakers will only be about 7 or 8 feet apart from center to center of the speakers.  And there is seating slightly outside of the left and right speaker.  Do LS speakers lose their advantages when the listener isn't near the sweet spot between the speakers?  What about open baffle?

Lastly, I may not use a center channel so those not sitting in the center may have someone direction center sound.  Because of this, I've thought about toeing in the speakers I get.  What are youf thoughts on toeing in the LS6's or some open baffle speakers?

Any input you have would be very helpful.

THanks!
Rob

[S Clark]

When listening to the LS6's at Danny's, they were placed a good 6 feet into the room- but so was everything else that he has set up in his listening room.  Your best bet for accurate info is to PM Danny directly. He usually responds in 24 hours.

[pbrstreetgang]

Doesnt look like either are really going to shine in your space constraints. Also the LS6 will need no low pass augmentation that near the wall. Both speakers are very high end and it simply is a waste if you have so many compromises. I would not hesitate to try one of GRs underappreciated Omni designs that will image well off center, be used near walls and integrate well with subs.

[zothen]

Thanks for the info so far.  I PM'd Danny as suggested to hear his input on this issue. 

I mentioned the high-pass filtering at 40 or 60Hz in case that removes some of the detriment of placing the LS6s close to the back wall.  I have a very capable sub so this is a compromise I can live with.

But if the LS's will be significantly compromised still, perhaps a sealed speaker like the X-statik (bass is sealed anyway) or a front ported speaker is the way to go?

Thanks,
Rob

[Danny Richie]

The open baffle designs minimize side wall interaction and they can be placed a little closer to side walls than most speakers. You will still have the same forward reflection points but you won't get low frequency gain from the wall.

However, they do need to be at least three feet away from the rear wall so that the rear reflected wave will be perceived as a delay and not part of the original signal.

The omni designs, also suggested, are in that same boat. Those speaker sound great but they need to be at least three feet from any wall.

The LS-6's can be made to work well in a room as small as 13' by 19'. We had them easily dialed in at the RMAF in a room that size.

If the port is close to the rear wall then you will get some coupling with the wall and some additional output at the tuning frequency in the 26Hz range. A little bump there is not too bad of a deal, but it is likely that you'll get some gain higher up as well. Fortunately the bass management system will allow you adjust the output level from 30Hz to about 100Hz.

Even with the adjustability I'd still recommend treating the rear wall behind the speaker pretty heavy if you can.

[zothen]

Danny,

Thanks a ton for the reply.  It sounds like the LS-6s might be doable in the configuration I mentioned without being too compromised.  I think treatment of that rear wall behind them is feasible.

For the open baffle speakers, will treatment behind them not resolve the reflective issues?  Or do you want some amount of reflection from the rear (and you want it delayed as you said)?

My other option is placing my left/right speakers in the corners.  I've understood that this isn't a good idea so I didn't mention it at first.  Below is a rough sketch of my 16x25 ft living room.  S1 represents the configuration I first mentioned.  S2 would be a corner configuration.  Do you think S1 is preferrable to S2?  or is S2 as good or better *if* I have a center channel and I toe them in some which should reduce side wall interaction? 

-------------------------------------------
|S2| window |S1|Chimney|S1| window  |S2|
|                                                          |
|                                                          |
|                                                          |
|                                                          |
|           |                               |             |
|           |                               |              D
|           |       Sectional            |              o
|           |                               |              o
|           |                               |              r
|           |----------------------|              |
---------------------------------Door-----|

Thanks!
Rob

[mono-tubeleosis]

I'm with you.  I'll be a foot from the wall.  Is it do-able to put rollers on the bases to move them out into the room for critical listening?  Here is my room.  The 'cocoons' where the existing speakers are will be moved out of the room to be replaced by LS6's I think. 

Unless you have a dedicated listening room for your speakers where having them 6 feet away from the wall like stadium pillars isn't a problem then aren't we all pretty much in the same boat?  What happened to the days of putting your speakers in the corners of a room?     How much of a difference sonically are we talking here if they are a foot from the wall?  I can put in some padding on the wall (as long as it looks good). 

Anyway here is my room.  Go ahead and blast me for what I need to do to the room but unless I can sell my home for a house dedicated to speakers There is not a whole lot I can do.  If there is the all forgiving speaker that can go anywhere regardless there doesn't seem to be much that can be improved on I think.  Oh, the room is 24.5 x 22.5

[Danny Richie]

For the open baffle speakers, will treatment behind them not resolve the reflective issues?

It will reduce the amplitude of the reflection, but it will not delay it in time. The reflection is okay if it is delayed enough in time.

Is it do-able to put rollers on the bases to move them out into the room for critical listening?

Rollers might actually let the speaker move around during playback. That wouldn't be good.

Mounting your speakers in the entertainment system will cause very early reflections that will create a time smear. You might notice a world of difference if you pulled them out into the room when you wanted to do critical listening.

[mono-tubeleosis]

Problem solved.  I showed this thread to my wife last night (your comment sealed the deal Danny).  Entertainment center will be finding a new home.  I've had this dang thing in my room for a few years now.  Ironically she said she only wanted it for my benefit and I said I only did it so It would look more like a living room for her.  Last night I stomped my feet and acted like a two year old over how it was killing my sound system.   It worked.   I guess sometimes you just have to grow some.

We have a vacation home that hasn't got much furniture in it yet with a large wall in a great room.  Guess where the entertainment center is going.  Remember the AV1's I got from you last year? well they'll have to live on the shelves there.  I guess you could say the AV1's took a grenade for the Big boys I'll be bringing into my system here.  They ARE bookshelf speakers after all.   Seriously though.  When we're there I basically just use them as background music anyway.  We're there to vacation and not hang around the house and play music and watch TV.  This couldn't have worked out better.  Now I can build/buy the LS-6's and they'll have room to breath.  Since the EC will be gone now, I can also do wall treatments (They'll have to look good).  This is going to work out great.

Life in the universe has been restored.

 

[Danny Richie]

Good for you man. That sounds like a good plan.

[goatwuss]

Hi Danny,

Do you prefer absorption, diffusion or a mix of both on the wall behind your speakers?

Thanks
Goatwuss

[Val]

Stuffing the ports might also help.

[Danny Richie]

Do you prefer absorption, diffusion or a mix of both on the wall behind your speakers?

I guess my room as a little of both. For low frequency ranges you'll need absorption, especially in the corners of the room.

[zothen]

Stuffing the ports might also help.

That is an interesting idea.  My first uneducated guess would be that the X-over design is not meant for that.

Danny, what are you thoughts on this?  Would this cause xdB of roll-off starting as some y-frequency?  Or would the effects be less predicatable than that?

Thanks,
Rob

[Danny Richie]

My first uneducated guess would be that the X-over design is not meant for that.

Stuffing or changing the port length only alters the low end extension and does nothing in the range of the crossover.

Danny, what are you thoughts on this?  Would this cause xdB of roll-off starting as some y-frequency?  Or would the effects be less predictable than that?

It is very predictable and the same with any speaker. The roll off starts sooner and is more gradual.