AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Single Driver, Wide-Bandwidth Speakers => Topic started by: beowulf on 15 Aug 2019, 08:11 am
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Did anybody check these out yet? 99dB very tube friendly and they look pretty stellar, very tank like build and for a good price!
(https://www.lii-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/%E6%B0%B4%E6%99%B6100.jpg)
(https://www.lii-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/%E6%B0%B4%E6%99%B6400.jpg)
(https://www.lii-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/spec.jpg)
They make speakers too:
(https://www.lii-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/%E6%B0%B4%E6%99%B68-600x600.jpg)
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Freq x dB chart too good to be true.
A few days a go there was other topic on this driver:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=162682.0
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Check out the Decware general discussion forums. Several folks building OB's with the Lii Audio Crystal 10" and F-15 drivers. Based on responses these single driver speakers are yielding excellent results.
NB
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Looks like Lii takes a lot of inspiration from the Coral Beta 10, not at all a bad thing.
(https://i.postimg.cc/TPZBk4S9/IMG-3510.jpg)
(https://www.picclickimg.com/d/l400/pict/142750895094_/Coral-Beta-10-Hi-End-Full-Range-Speaker-2Pcs.jpg)
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/47/5f/75/475f75fe7b287b9d4ecb5c6ceb2d462b.jpg)
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Speaking of inspired, the Lii 6.5" driver has the mid-cone suspension like the legendary Western Electric 755 and later Altec 755. Interesting experiment at $250/pair. I remember when Altec touted this decoupled cone design as allowing the center cone to reproduce mids and highs and the outer ring to couple in for the bass. In the '70s I discounted this, after all Stereo Review and Audio magazines said woofer + tweeter + crossover had to be better. :duh: Of course even Altec placed them below their woofer + compression driver coaxs. As soon as I get the time machine working its back to 1976 to pick up a pair. The first picture below is me contemplating missed HiFi opportunities, with a 755 looking down second row far right.
(http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/altec/catalogs/1954-home/Page11.jpg)
https://www.lii-audio.com/index.php/product/6-5-inch-full-range-hi-fi-speaker-exquisite-design-bakelite-cone-for-tube-amplifier-m6-2-pcs/# (https://www.lii-audio.com/index.php/product/6-5-inch-full-range-hi-fi-speaker-exquisite-design-bakelite-cone-for-tube-amplifier-m6-2-pcs/#)
(https://www.lii-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/6.5-inch-full-range-Hi-Fi-speaker-exquisite-design-M6-1.jpg)
And the real deal...
(http://streetcomanches.zohosites.com/files/altec%20755%20trio%20trimmed.jpg)
http://streetcomanches.zohosites.com/My-Altec-Lansing-ramble.html (http://streetcomanches.zohosites.com/My-Altec-Lansing-ramble.html)
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The prices showed at Lii site are for pair or each driver? :scratch:
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The prices showed at Lii site are for pair or each driver? :scratch:
I'm pretty sure, it's for a pair.
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I'm pretty sure, it's for a pair.
That is good news, thanks.
They mention its a pair in the tittle I failed to see that :duh:
Seems there are a typo at the F15 specs:
14.Mms 13.70 grams
that is a too little weight for a 15'' cone and the big wheezer it use.
https://www.lii-audio.com/index.php/product/recommended-15-full-range-speaker-driver-for-music-loudspeaker-with-tube-amplifier-f-15-in-pair/
The 10'' 99dB seems the more suited to small tube amps of this brand imo.
I suppose they are all Ferrite magnet.
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Those 6.5's look really nice. I ordered the F-15's last week. Should be getting them soon, I hope. I post some pics when they show up.
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The F15 is great, go big or go home, keep us posted.
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Those 6.5's look really nice. I ordered the F-15's last week. Should be getting them soon, I hope. I post some pics when they show up.
+1 please report back!
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The F-15's are here. Gotta say these drivers are good. Full large sound even at low volumes. With the small OB's I have them in the bass is very good. So far I'm impressed. Powering them with a Aleph J, Topping D30. SYS, Tidal.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=198677)
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Congratulations, seems a great driver to small tube amps with 97dB spl.
Do you will built the BR recommended box?
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Congratulations, seems a great driver to small tube amps with 97dB spl.
Do you will built the BR recommended box?
I've looked at the plans for the large vented enclosure. Not sure what I'm going to do yet.
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This box will delivery more bass under 200Hz,
but will loss the OB effect in the mid / treble.
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Here's a YouTube video of the Crystal 10's in a simple OB Baltic Birch plywood frame. Driven by a 2 watt Decware amplifier.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=b_yrG3ZzE1g.
Video and audio was taken with a mobile phone. Can you imagine how good they sound in person?
NB
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Why he dont walk the camera?
Seem a direct from CD playback,
there is no room ambience.
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FullRangeMan,
Remember video and audio were taken with a cell phone. Not the best quality. Source was reel to reel tape. There have been several Crystal 10 OB speakers built by posters on the Decware forum. Most of these builders are claiming they are the best full range single driver speaker they've ever heard.
There will be "live streaming" of Steve Deckerts upcoming Decfest get together on Oct. 3-5 which will feature the Lii Audio Crystal 10 driver in an OB configuration and with the driver in a custom cabinet designed and built by Lii Audio. This event will be live streamed in HD video with a professional stereo mike set up to capture the audio.
Feel free to tune in for a better listening experience.
NB
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These drivers are good news as the price are very affordable, the 15'' are incredible value and a very rare size in FR comunity.
Gracias
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Just a reminder, if anyone's near Peoria Illinois over October 3-5 the Lii F-15 and Crystal 10 drivers are going to be at the Decware 2019 Decfest in both open baffle designs and also Lii's flag ship Crystal 10 speaker cabinets!
You guys should check it out if you're in the area. I'm in San Diego, so I will have to live vicariously through the live stream ... one of these days I'll make it there though.
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FullRangeMan,
Remember video and audio were taken with a cell phone. Not the best quality. Source was reel to reel tape. There have been several Crystal 10 OB speakers built by posters on the Decware forum. Most of these builders are claiming they are the best full range single driver speaker they've ever heard.
There will be "live streaming" of Steve Deckerts upcoming Decfest get together on Oct. 3-5 which will feature the Lii Audio Crystal 10 driver in an OB configuration and with the driver in a custom cabinet designed and built by Lii Audio. This event will be live streamed in HD video with a professional stereo mike set up to capture the audio.
Feel free to tune in for a better listening experience.
NB
i spent a few hours reading that thread. It has me really intrested. i love a low power amp option. quick question here... so that shape of the betsey is important because why?
This could be an easy first speaker build project? I have some woodworking skills. Just get some plywood or mdf or hardwood and cut and install drivers and enjoy?
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The open baffle barrel shape (Betsy Baffle) and dimensions were developed by Randy of Caintuck Audio, after a lot of trial and error. He designed the baffle to incorporate the Wild Burro Audio Betsy driver (8") and has been selling them for several years.
Randy's good friend, Steve Deckert of Decware upscaled the design dimensions to accommodate the larger Lii Audio Crystal 10 & F-15 drivers. Steve refers to the F-15 OB as the "Big Betsy' and the Crystal-10 OB as the "Big Betsy Juniors".
NB
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There is other OB classic design simpler than Betsy, here w/the Super10CF:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171833)
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The Crystals look like beautiful drivers and well suited for OB. I’m looking forward to seeing some used ones come up for sale.
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I just bought the last pair of Fast-10s. Looking forward to seeing how they sound.
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I just bought the last pair of Fast-10s. Looking forward to seeing how they sound.
I have about 80 hours on my Fast-10S, they are sounding very good on open baffle, they definitely improve with break in, they had a “honkiness” at some frequencies where they seemed to accentuate the note early on. I am playing with them in OB on top of my H frame servos at the moment, using cardboard to vary the width of the baffle, I started with a winged baffle initially, running full range with no baffle step compensation. I am also using a dome tweeter firing up, I have disconnected ithe tweeter a couple of times but prefer it with the tweeter.
I will probably throw together the Crystal-Mehnir cabinet over the holiday to try out. It is still early, but a worthy candidate I believe.
Best,
Ed
BTW, I thought I bought one of the last 4 sets, then when I checked again they had added 6 more, their little scheme worked, I jumped a little sooner than I might have otherwise, haha. One other note, be sure to refer to the Fast 10 cabinet to get the driver cutout dimensions, it is apparently a little smaller than the Crystal 10.
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BTW, I thought I bought one of the last 4 sets, then when I checked again they had added 6 more, their little scheme worked, I jumped a little sooner than I might have otherwise, haha. One other note, be sure to refer to the Fast 10 cabinet to get the driver cutout dimensions, it is apparently a little smaller than the Crystal 10.
Hmmm. I wonder if I've been caught in the scheme, too. Now I see there are 6 more available after briefly showing "sold out"...
https://www.lii-audio.com/index.php/product/full-range-speaker-10-inch-hi-end-99db-hifi-speaker-driver-for-tube-amplifier-xizi-audio-2pcs-fast-10/
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haha it's smart marketing. on their facebook group they show an upcoming model called the Fast10-B that's black and has an updated whizzer that uses what they learned making the big 15 incher. more relaxed highs I think they said.
I have the Fast8 and am waiting for a couple of 10" dipole woofers to make my first speaker. Gonna try to make my own version of the caintuck betsy and buck type baffle. with active crossover dsp..
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Well the drivers arrived undamaged in spite of marginal packaging and early results are very promising. I ran a frequncy sweep through them and they were subjectively very smooth with little in the way of peaks. High frequency extensio does not sound curtailed in any way my ears can discern (my hearing falls off around 10 kHz). They are still without panel or enclosures, just sitting naked on my desktop.
I'm very happy with the purchase so far. Time will tell once they're broken in and in boxes.
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Hi,
I run the F15 for 33hours now. First I just lay them bare on the floor 1 to 2 feet away from the walls....surprising.
Now I mounted them into a Caintuck barrel shape OB rather big size (40cm/65/105)...no spectacular improuvement.
From that I believe the small Caintuck OB is adequate if you place them near the walls and the bigger sizes if you place them "in the midddle of the room" so to speak.
My running period is probably too short to have real feeling of what this driver is capable of.
I run these beasts with a FW F5 + Sys.
I placed it in the corner for the picture but with such a big OB, it isn't adequate.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=203297)
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For those of you who are interested in Lii Audio drivers with open baffle set ups, I encourage you to check out the extensive user information on the Decware forums. Steve Deckert and Randy Bash (Caintuck Audio) were early adopters of these drivers and waded through a lot of OB design elements (will save you a lot of time & $). These forums are chocked full of helpful information on drivers, open baffle implementation, and room positioning.
FWIW, from my direct communications with the company, the Lii Audio F-15 drivers were designed specifically for open baffle use. The Lii Audio Crystal 10's were designed primarily for box implementation, although sound very good in OB designs.
https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1561942815
https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1563675938
Also for full disclosure, I purchased a pair of Caintuck Audio The Lii 15 open baffle speakers from Randy. I've been using these in my dedicated two-channel system for over 2 months. Randy's Lii 15 baffles are available for under $1K shipped for those of you who are not DIY'ers. They sound absolutely stunning with proper placement and some diffuser room treatments. I have not affiliation with Caintuck Audio other than having met Randy @ two Decfest events and being a very satisfied customer. Below is a link to the Caintuck Audio F-15 webpage & a shot of my listening room FYI.
http://www.caintuckaudio.com/Lii_15.html
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=203306)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=203307)
NB
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These look very interesting. How are they holding up for you?
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Slam,
If you are inquiring about the Lii Audio F-15 drivers, mine are holding up perfectly after about 5 months of regular, daily use. They communicate recorded music in an exceptionally realistic & musical way.
As I have previously noted they are the very best full-range driver I've ever heard.
NB
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As expected I supose.
Did you ever hear any Nirvana from CommomSense?
A comparison would be interesting.
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As expected I supose.
Did you ever hear any Nirvana from CommomSense?
A comparison would be interesting.
No, I have not heard any of the CommenSense offerings. I have listened to a dozen or more full rsnge, single driver speakers.
NB
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I'm using Commonsense full-range drivers, 15" Classic Alnico Audio Nirvana and love them. I have had mines for 9 months now and they are a beautiful and engaging speaker.
Wig
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=203621)
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NB,
How far back is the listening position from the drivers to the ears? With the drivers that low to the floor do you get the sense that the higher frequencies are somewhat attenuated?
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I'm using Commonsense full-range drivers, 15" Classic Alnico Audio Nirvana and love them. I have had mines for 9 months now and they are a beautiful and engaging speaker.
Wig
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=203621)
Thanks boys for your input.
Awesome enclosure congratulations.
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NB,
How far back is the listening position from the drivers to the ears? With the drivers that low to the floor do you get the sense that the higher frequencies are somewhat attenuated?
WC,
My listening position is ~8' from the speakers. I hear no attenuation or exaggerated higher frequencies from the drivers due to the low driver position. I also heard these F-15 drivers in taller, similar barrel shaped OB design (Decware Zen OB's) at Decfest in October, 2019. These Decware OB's were not only larger & wider but hardwood panels were thicker at 2".
The larger baffles had slightly tighter bass notes and a taller soundstage image. I did not hear a difference in treble response between the two in a carpeted room. The larger, much heavier Decware F-15 offering are priced substantially higher (4-5X) than the Caintuck Audio baffles. I opted for the Caintucks because they lthey delivered ~95% of the performance of the larger ones, IMHO.
NB
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My understanding is they float the images above the speakers, which is pretty interesting especially if you can be only 8’ back from the drivers. I think I’d still be inclined have them on a baffle closer to ear level at the expense of some bass. Years ago when I was experimenting with the Visaton B200 I mounted two drivers on each baffle, one at ear level and the other down low driven with a plate amp for bass reinforcement. It seemed to work quite well with the 8” drivers.
Still I’d like to hear the 15” drivers in the Betsy baffle arrangement as illustrated above. So you don’t feel the need for a tweeter and you don’t perceive the soundstage as being too low?
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My understanding is they float the images above the speakers, which is pretty interesting especially if you can be only 8’ back from the drivers. I think I’d still be inclined have them on a baffle closer to ear level at the expense of some bass. Years ago when I was experimenting with the Visaton B200 I mounted two drivers on each baffle, one at ear level and the other down low driven with a plate amp for bass reinforcement. It seemed to work quite well with the 8” drivers.
Still I’d like to hear the 15” drivers in the Betsy baffle arrangement as illustrated above. So you don’t feel the need for a tweeter and you don’t perceive the soundstage as being too low?
As previously mentioned a taller baffle increased the height of the soundstage. The smaller Caintuck Audio baffles give me a very realistic 6' tall soundstage.
I suggest you check out the Decware Betsy Baffle forum for additional information on adding a tweeter. My recollection is some tried adding a separate super tweeter with no noticable improvement. Some DIYers are building variations with tweeters and/or additional bass drivers either with resistors or simple crossovers. I prefer the simple, one driver approach and lack the woodworking equipment/skills to experiment. FWIW, I'm just really delighted with the F-15 driver in a simple barrel shaped baffle.
NB
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The smaller Caintuck Audio baffles give me a very realistic 6-7' tall soundstage.
Wow, that is really quite surprising. I’d really like to hear these.
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I have had crystal 10 for some time now. Before that I had fast 10, also very good and have F15 in open baffle. Fast 10 and F15 will be sold due to space constraints. I was using my Sony receiver with crystal 10 for a while but had an urge for another valve amp, but then decided I would like something like first watt SIT but so thin on the ground I turned my attention to something I had been looking at for a while but knew nothing about, Bakoon amplifiers. Long story short I bought an earlier model 11R 15w/channel. Has transformed the crystal 10 from very good to the best sound I ever heard, anywhere.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=204340)
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=204344)
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Can someone turn the image around
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I can't help with that but please tell about the enclosures for those drivers.
Did you build them and what plans did you use?
Thanks
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=204348)
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those reminds me of occellias... must resist
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Nature Boy,
Tell me more! What else is in your audio chain with the Lii 15's? what amp/preamp are you using? Do you have any subs or any of Randy's bass baffles at play in your system?
Thanks for your thoughts! I am contemplating a build over here myself.
Thanks
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Buy the F15 soon, never had see such a bargain, you know the Decware prices.
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LII Audio is working on a set of speakers with the 15. I just purchased their Crystal Speakers and they showed me the blueprints for the 15 model.
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Do its the 15'' OB woofer already released?
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I can't help with that but please tell about the enclosures for those drivers.
Did you build them and what plans did you use?
Thanks
You can also find plans for speakers (https://www.lii-audio.com/dt_gallery/) on the Lii Audio site, and Leon Huijgens has also a new OB design (http://www.modelpromo.nl/The%20Liiondias%20Open%20Baffle%20Speaker.htm) for Lii Audio units.
Do its the 15'' OB woofer already released?
I think so, at least the W-15 (https://www.lii-audio.com/product/15-inch-woofer-1-pair-2pcs-for-bass-compensation-of-open-baffle-or-cabinet-w-15/) is another (new) woofer on their site.
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did anyone try to build this Crystal-10 for near-field monitor use? do it sound great? Given my situation, I can only put the bare driver on my desk or put in bookshelf at the side of my desk. however all the plan on lii website are towers.
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did anyone try to build this Crystal-10 for near-field monitor use? do it sound great? Given my situation, I can only put the bare driver on my desk or put in bookshelf at the side of my desk. however all the plan on lii website are towers.
FYI, someone on another forum tried the driver on a small stand the result was less than optimal. YMMV.
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Driver values require floorstanding size box. Needs additional bass woofer for open baffle. Bare driver on desk sounds awful. I tried it with fast 8
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thanks guys, I don't know to read those numbers except the resistant value. will see if lii got the lil crystal 6 for monitor use
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LII Audio is working on a set of speakers with the 15. I just purchased their Crystal Speakers and they showed me the blueprints for the 15 model.
Was this a candidate speaker for a 15 inch version of crystal? Then I can wait a little longer to buy.