Best speaker stand ever.

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Danny Richie

Re: Best speaker stand ever.
« Reply #20 on: 3 Oct 2014, 01:07 am »
As much as I think this is genius, I'd probably still only want them firing out.

Danny, could these principles be applied to a subwoofer closer to the ground?

Yes, you could move them down to ground level.

Quote
While that design appeals to some, my first and foremost is life compatibility, and I can't deal with just huge boxes. I'm sure two is better, but I live without subwoofers as is....  Also I'm going to have to be talked out of this subwoofer position/direction with force. I spent too many months getting imaging to be forceful and good with bass instruments and what not, without room treatment stuff.

I know a lot of people tend to think the impact must be out towards the sides. In actuality though it's just not the case. Those ranges are very omni directional. It has the same impact regardless of which way they face. The direction they face only makes a difference at the crossover point. Flipping a sub around another direction flips the phase. So long as they are in phase at the crossover point then all is good. And with the servo amp you have complete phase control just by turning a knob. So it can't get any easier.

Folsom

Re: Best speaker stand ever.
« Reply #21 on: 3 Oct 2014, 02:37 am »
 :green:

You should have a questions by Danny section where people answer things you want to know.

Trismos

Re: Best speaker stand ever.
« Reply #22 on: 19 Oct 2014, 04:10 pm »
These could be the best speaker stands ever. They will be for a lot of applications.

I am just building up the first pair and thought I'd share this with everyone. I am building some stands that have an 8" servo sub on each side of the stand and the HX300 servo amp on the inside facing side panel.

These are open baffle woofers so they need no full box. So the air space is nothing. They face to the sides. This does have some force cancelling benefit too. And as you can see from the pics the back is open.



With the back open the output from the side and from the back will cancel each other out. So they will have no output on the back side of the stand. But they will have output on both sides and in front of the stand.



This means that they can be placed near the front wall and there will be no coupling effect from the wall. So no room boom from the front wall at all.



Rotating them now you can see where the amp and woofers mount.

In this pic below you can see them from the front. They are only 6.25" wide and only 10.75" deep.



Rotating them again for another front corner view.



And I designed to be built out of 3/4" material. It is well brace of coarse and I will line it with No Rez.

They will get a bottom plate for floor spikes and a top plate for the speakers to sit on. So they will get a little taller. The center section is only 26.5" tall. So when finished they will be just about right. They will be 28" tall plus the floor spikes.

And with the servo controls these will do just about anything you want them to. They can even play to a -3db down of 20Hz. Now your little mini-monitor turns into a full range speaker without getting any bigger.

More on the HX300 amp here: http://www.rythmikaudio.com/compact_amplifiers.html

I might even offer some in-line passive filters for mini-monitors like these.



Pretty cool huh....  :thumb:

Very cool. Have you finished them? How much is that amp? I am looking to build the LGKs for my smaller living room to replace the gawd awful surround sound fronts that came with one of them cheapo home theatre packages. The wife wasn't all that keen on my N3 TLs there so I was kind of hoping to build a reasonable sub section to the LGKs, which will work better than what I have regardless of a sub bottom or not....

Dave

Danny Richie

Re: Best speaker stand ever.
« Reply #23 on: 19 Oct 2014, 05:07 pm »
I have them coated with Duratex, lined with No Rez, and I am currently finishing up the bases.

I will have them finished in a few days and have a complete report.

nrenter

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Re: Best speaker stand ever.
« Reply #24 on: 19 Oct 2014, 05:52 pm »
Danny,

What are your thoughts on this (from another thread):

Quote
Rather than sub / stands that were rectangles, how about a similar geometry to the "wedgies" (kind of a "V" with an open back? A "wedgie" would seamlessly set atop this "atomic" sub, or could be integrated into the sub. The side panel would be large / tall enough to  incorporate the sub amp (removing the need for a seperate enclosure).

Would the wedgies play down low enough for this type of configuration?

Captainhemo

Re: Best speaker stand ever.
« Reply #25 on: 19 Oct 2014, 07:05 pm »
Danny,

What are your thoughts on this (from another thread):

Would the wedgies play down low enough for this type of configuration?

See reply #4  on first page,   these will  play up high enough to   cross nicely with the  Wedgies.
I think the problem you'd have with trying to make the shape match the Wedgie seamlessly  would be the width,  I believe the SW-8's are  just too deep , even with the  angle of the  Wedgies,  to have the front of the  sub/stand match up perfectly with the Wedgies

-jay

Rythmik site says 5" clearance in depth, 
http://rythmikaudio.com/DS800drivers.html

Danny Richie

Re: Best speaker stand ever.
« Reply #26 on: 19 Oct 2014, 09:13 pm »
Danny,

What are your thoughts on this (from another thread):

Would the wedgies play down low enough for this type of configuration?

You can use the 8" servo subs in a wedge shaped baffle, but it has to be a lot stronger and beefier than the Wedgie.

Danny Richie

Re: Best speaker stand ever.
« Reply #27 on: 21 Oct 2014, 09:46 pm »
Okay, I finished out the pair and completed some extensive testing. There is good and bad with a few surprises.

First here are a few pics. Good looking stands...



The mirrored pair allows the amps to be on the inside.



Front on view.



Looking down at them from the back.



Back side.



The idea was that the open back would allow cancellation and have a null that would minimize front wall gains. In actuality the slotted opening in the back was so narrow that it acted more like an open port. Measuring all the way around it from front to back showed a slight decrease in output at a 90 degree angle or dead on with a side where it was 6 to 8db down across the lower range. In the rear it had just as much output as from the front and it had a little bit of a peak at 250Hz on the back side indicating that might be the tuning range of the slotted opening. 

So I then tried some listening tests with the single LGK desk top speakers sitting on them.

Here is an in room response measurement. Note this is a 5db scale. So getting an in room response this smooth is almost unheard of.



I have various filters like these on hand for pulling the lows off of the LGK's. I had some .047uF, some .033uF, and some .022uF values to test with. I settled on the .022uF values for them. That pulled enough of the lows off of the LGK's for me to play them pretty hard with no issues.



Here is another set of measurements that I took with the stands turned around backwards.



Okay, the listening tested reveals good and bad.

The good was that it sounded unbelievable. It was clearly full range just like the measurements showed. The bass was very clear and tight as one would expect from servo subs. And they matched well with the LGK's. It was a stunning combination. You'd never know a little 3" driver was handling so much.

Okay the bad part was this was with the highest extension filter and damping setting. Yes, it was flat to 20Hz on the highest setting. The other two settings let it drop deep into the teens. The problem with the lower settings is that when playing music with really low notes it let them run out of X-Max in a hurry. Even on the highest setting the X-Max became a limiting factor on deep notes. We are going to have to re-visit extension filters and come up with some ways to limit the low end extension to bring SPL levels up.

I also tried these with a pair of the N1's.



Again I went with the .022uF filter to remove the lows from them. It removed a LOT of the low end from the N-1's. The woofers hardly moved even with good bass notes. It did make the mid-range much cleaner as well. The servo woofers blended easily with them.



I flipped the phase control all the way around on this reading. If I would have played with it a little I am sure I could have gotten a better response. They weren't perfectly in phase at 200Hz. But man, did these things sound great! All of the great imaging of a mini-monitor and the full range sound of a big speaker. It was great top to bottom. But again, really low notes over worked the woofers pretty easily. So this thing is clearly going to need some tweaking. 

mlundy57

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Re: Best speaker stand ever.
« Reply #28 on: 21 Oct 2014, 10:37 pm »
Danny,

that Duratex looks sharp.

If two of these drivers are running out of X-Max on the low notes in this configuration, would the same thing happen with two of them in an H-frame?

Mike

Danny Richie

Re: Best speaker stand ever.
« Reply #29 on: 21 Oct 2014, 10:58 pm »
They can play pretty hard and hit some really good SPL levels if not asked to play down into the teens. The same goes for the H frame.

And I love Duratex.

Tyson

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Re: Best speaker stand ever.
« Reply #30 on: 21 Oct 2014, 11:03 pm »
Why not just vent it in the front as well as the back?  Then turn the whole thing sideways, so the woofer is toward the front and the 2nd woofer is toward the back?  You could make the top platform a bit bigger in order to fit speakers on it. 

mlundy57

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Re: Best speaker stand ever.
« Reply #31 on: 21 Oct 2014, 11:10 pm »
They can play pretty hard and hit some really good SPL levels if not asked to play down into the teens. The same goes for the H frame.

And I love Duratex.

What type of low end extension could be expected with SPL levels of 70dB for normal listening with peaks around 85-90dB?

Danny Richie

Re: Best speaker stand ever.
« Reply #32 on: 21 Oct 2014, 11:22 pm »
Why not just vent it in the front as well as the back?  Then turn the whole thing sideways, so the woofer is toward the front and the 2nd woofer is toward the back?  You could make the top platform a bit bigger in order to fit speakers on it.

I was trying to stick with a narrow stand look.

I like the way you are thinking though.

Danny Richie

Re: Best speaker stand ever.
« Reply #33 on: 21 Oct 2014, 11:23 pm »
What type of low end extension could be expected with SPL levels of 70dB for normal listening with peaks around 85-90dB?

Not too much of an issue if peaks don't get above 85 to 90db in room. With some adjustments to give up low end extension a little they might be able to really hit some solid high SPL levels.

Peter J

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Re: Best speaker stand ever.
« Reply #34 on: 21 Oct 2014, 11:46 pm »
Interesting. I realize it would change the desired dimensions, but would using 3 drivers address the x-max issues?

Captainhemo

Re: Best speaker stand ever.
« Reply #35 on: 22 Oct 2014, 12:14 am »
Interesting. I realize it would change the desired dimensions, but would using 3 drivers address the x-max issues?

Exactly what I was thinking as  I was reading   today's posts.
Now what happens if you make it a wedge ..... with the wider opening at the rear  does  problem get worse  ?

They do look good Danny , necely done so far   :thumb:

-jay

jcotner

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Re: Best speaker stand ever.
« Reply #36 on: 22 Oct 2014, 12:27 am »
Curious. Could you reduce the width in the front and increase
it in the back. Like a wedge but not quite.
That would widen the back out some and maybe improve  that
some. Like you said you have phase control anyway.
Just a thought.

And maybe someday I'll read the post before mine before I
say anything!  :oops:

Tyson

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Re: Best speaker stand ever.
« Reply #37 on: 22 Oct 2014, 12:31 am »
I think that the bass wavelengths are so long, it's gonna act like horn loading as long as one side is sealed and the other side is vented. 

Danny Richie

Re: Best speaker stand ever.
« Reply #38 on: 22 Oct 2014, 12:37 am »
Exactly what I was thinking as  I was reading   today's posts.
Now what happens if you make it a wedge ..... with the wider opening at the rear  does  problem get worse  ?

They do look good Danny , necely done so far   :thumb:

-jay

A wedge shape might actually be better and might start to create the null in the rear like it was originally intended. A wedge shape that matches the new LGK Wedgies might be just the ticket.

I was just speaking to Brian about this, and the amps I am using are for an open baffle design. So they have a shelving circuit that helps make the response in an open baffle more linear. These are acting like they are in a ported box. So the shelving circuit may be forcing too much exertion. So Brian is going to send me some instructions on how to by-pass that part of the circuit. That might do the trick.

bdp24

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Re: Best speaker stand ever.
« Reply #39 on: 22 Oct 2014, 01:42 am »
Of course, sealing the enclosure (and adjusting its volume for the requirements of the non-OB version of the 8" driver) will increase the output. Are you set on keeping it OB, for use with the Wedges? Do you not want to do an H- or W-frame?