AudioCircle
Industry Circles => ZenWave Audio => Topic started by: xsb7244 on 1 May 2013, 01:35 am
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A thread for DaveC113. I like what people are saying about these interconnects. Everybody please post your reviews here. The intro price on these interconnects was $114.99 but Dave made very little profit on these. The intro price on these are now $140. Get them while you can, Correct me but I think the price will soon be $200. Back in the 1970s interconnects were free with the equipment you bought or a couple of bucks. Compared to other stuff like amps cables are super sky high! I like what I read about DaveC113. I like his philosophy about cables.
You get quality stuff and value for what is offered. $200 is the retail price for his cables but it could be sold for $400, $500, $600, etc. DaveC113 what makes a interconnect a quality cable? Whart is the thinking behind DaveC113 cables?
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Hi, xsb. Just saw your thread, thanks. Might need to be moved to the industry ads section but we'll let Pez or whoever currently facilitates this circle decide.
I'll say upfront I do not claim to be an expert on anything audio related, I understand some basics and have built a DIY tube preamp and amp, and lots of cables over the years... I'm just an audio enthusiast like anyone else. I never thought of marketing cables before making the ones I am selling now. My results building DIY cables was always at least decent, but I never managed to build anything that was better than my reference, a cable made by Jupiter Condenser that is sold in bulk for DIY termination. It is made of 8 strands of 28g 6N copper: http://jupitercondenser.com/Cable/cotton-insulated-cable.html It also isn't cheap, 2 meters of that cable costs about $140, plus whatever connectors you want to use... and terminating that cable isn't easy either.
When I first saw the Neotech EC-UPOCC cotton insulated wire, I thought it looked interesting because of all the individually insulated wires... lots of them! It looked like a modification of a litz wire design made with OCC copper and cotton insulation, both of which which I like. When I made the first IC with this wire I was shocked at how good it was... better than the Jupiter cable, better than anything I've ever tried. Then I ordered the 20g wire to make speaker cable... the combination of using this wire for ICs and SCs was amazing in my system. I knew I had something special. And the bonus is that this wire doesn't cost a fortune, I can offer these cables for a very reasonable price.
I also want to offer a good value for the money... I feel that many cables offer dubious value for the money and this end of the hi-fi business is seen as shady and full of snake-oil salesmen. So I have decided to be open and honest with my product, you know exactly what it's made of, you can look up how much the parts would cost you to build your own pair, and if that's what you want to do, I have no issue with people copying my design for their own use. I think people who value their time will find it's easier to pay me for a finished cable though, it's not an easy cable to make because of the braiding. Also, termination of a strange shaped cable into connectors that were designed for cables with round cross sections isn't easy. And, the Neotech wire isn't super easy to prepare for termination either. The parts cost will run about $80 anyway... so paying me $140 for a finished cable is really a bargain (IMO).
In the near future I will be offering 2 cables for folks that want the best regardless of cost... one will use the same Neotech signal wire, but substitutes Neotech solid core OCC copper / teflon ground wire for the mil-spec wire used in the current cable. It also uses Furutech's top of the line RCA connectors with the filament style center pin. The 2nd cable will be the same as the one previously described, but substitutes Duelund silver foil wire with a silk and oil dielectric instead of the Neotech EC-UPOCC signal wire.
As of this post I have not had a single cable returned to me, and most of the people who have bought a cable from me have said it's the best cable they have ever tried. I truly believe that for $140 you will get one of the best IC cables on the market regardless of price. :)
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...I truly believe that for $140 you will get one of the best IC cables on the market regardless of price. :)
Cable tour? :D
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Cable tour? :D
Pics?
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Pics?
Sure!
ICs
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=76975)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=76976)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=76977)
Furutech RCA plug with filament center pin for upcoming high-end interconnect.
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l318/davec113/Cables%204-21-13/FurutechFP-101G007_zps2ae0f81b.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/user/davec113/media/Cables%204-21-13/FurutechFP-101G007_zps2ae0f81b.jpg.html)
SCs
Furutech Banana Plug
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l318/davec113/Cables%204-21-13/speakercablepics002_zpse0d124d2.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/user/davec113/media/Cables%204-21-13/speakercablepics002_zpse0d124d2.jpg.html)
Furutech Banana Plug (top two) and Pure Copper Spade With Strain Relief. The Furutech connectors aren't cheap (spades are nearly $20/ea), but are the best I've ever used.
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l318/davec113/Cables%204-21-13/speakercablepics005_zps72c4ae85.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/user/davec113/media/Cables%204-21-13/speakercablepics005_zps72c4ae85.jpg.html)
20 Gauge Neotech Wire. Cotton blend insulation, braided wire, each strand individually insulated with enamel, flat film core that the wire is braided around (colored red for visibility).
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l318/davec113/Cables%204-21-13/speakercablepics006_zps9eb63bd6.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/user/davec113/media/Cables%204-21-13/speakercablepics006_zps9eb63bd6.jpg.html)
Bananas
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l318/davec113/Cables%204-21-13/speakercablepics010_zpsf3b7f313.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/user/davec113/media/Cables%204-21-13/speakercablepics010_zpsf3b7f313.jpg.html)
Spades on the speaker terminals of my DIY amplifier
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l318/davec113/Cables%204-21-13/speakercablepics014_zps0c7cc64b.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/user/davec113/media/Cables%204-21-13/speakercablepics014_zps0c7cc64b.jpg.html)
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Cable tour? :D
I don't see why not?
Not sure how I go about organizing such a thing though? :scratch:
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I just ran a cable tour so you can PM me if you have questions.
Do you make balanced ICs?
Mike
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Thanks Mike, if you could PM me the general procedure in getting a cable tour started that would be great. :thumb:
I have not made a balanced cable yet but that's actually the 3rd time today I have been asked about balanced ICs. I will plan on making a balanced IC using a 4 strand litz braid, 2 runs of Neotech EC-UPOCC wire for signal and 2 18g silver plated copper/teflon for the ground wires. The Furutech FP-701/FP-702 look like a good choice of connector, the FP-601/FP-602 look great, but that's about $325 worth of connectors for one set of balanced ICs!
Also, folks can check out my website, www.davescables.com for some reviews. I have been overwhelmed with positive reviews, which makes this a lot of fun. I am really happy that everyone who has tried these cables shares my enthusiasm for them! :green:
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DaveC113 - Your cables look really well made.
I'm looking to DIY some ICs myself (not this particular style - just trying something else out), but what I'm not sure I have a good handle on is how to solder the ground wire to the "shell" (is there a different term for it?) of the RCA plug.
The signal wire is great, because the plug has a nice "cup" that the wire can sit in while you solder it down, but soldering the wire to the shell was a pain in the behind. Do you have any tips for that?
Sorry for the threadjack. You are welcome to PM me if you would like.
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Dave, thanks for responding to my thread. I knew nothing about you prior to 1 week ago and then I read your comments on cable and I became curious. With limited funds, I am not in the market for cables but there is always the future. Anyway, what attracted me to your cable
was the explanation you gave on how you make them. People should also know that they are getting a cable made by a mechanical engineer. I
like to know about the background of people that make things. I read that you owned a welding and auto shop and have some electrical engineering experience. Please tell me about your days in welding and auto. And then you had a career change and became a mechanical
engineer. What is it like being a ME? My son graduates in late 2013 with a degree in mechanical engineering from Santa Clara University. That is why I have no money! Dave, thanks for taking the risk and making a low cost cable with a max value.
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Congrats to your son for making it through engineering school. :thumb: Before I got my degree I had a little welding/auto shop. I have always been an auto enthusiast and opened the shop after doing a lot of work on 4x4s and building my own highly modified Toyota Landcruiser and Chevy 3/4 ton 4x4. I did custom engine/drivetrain swaps, mostly putting fuel injected Chevy 350s in old Landcruisers... also custom suspensions, axles, steering and electrical systems. I also put in some car audio systems, it's a lot of labor to do a good job on the install but it's fun and non-greasy. :green: And I did whatever random repair and welding work came my way. It was fun, but hard on the body and after a while it was hard to drag myself out of bed and under a truck anymore. I already had almost half of my ME degree done, so I decided to go back to school and finish it up. I worked for Vestas Wind Turbines for a couple years, was part of their project team and designed a lot of the assembly operations in the Nacelle and Hub plant in Brighton, CO. It is a Danish company, I spent a lot of time in Denmark at their various factories and R&D center. Working for the Danes was awesome, I really loved Denmark and the Danes are great to work with. Copenhagen is a beautiful city, I really enjoyed my time there too. Working as a ME can be fun, like any job it depends on the company and your boss. If you're at a good company with a good corporate culture and have a good boss it's great.
@Maritan, the Furutech connectors I use have a slot cut in the shell that forms a thin strip of metal that's easy to solder to because heat doesn't dissipate to the rest of the shell as quickly. For connectors without a specific place to solder the ground wire to, I would put down some flux at the point you want to solder to, then use a large tip and high heat on the soldering iron to heat up that spot quickly to minimize heating up the connector too much. Have the ground wire tinned beforehand, and apply heat until the solder flows onto the shell and wire. I plug the RCA connector into an old cd player to hold it in place while soldering. Feel free to copy my design if you wish, I have no problem with that. Good luck!
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Dave, speaking of welders, companies are desperate to hire skilled welders so they can keep up with demand. You are the triple crown winner, welding, auto,and cables. Also, do you repair bikes? I read that you are not into vinyl. Your amp and preamp are tubes. Tubes and turntables are a throwback to the past, a wonderful past. Tubes and turntables go together. They are like the old Hollywood royalty, Clark Gable, Bogart, Lauren Bacall, Errol Flynn. Vinyl has a magic and an emotion that cry out to be heard. Long live vinyl. And sometime in the distant future can you make phono cables?
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I have some vinyl, but it's hi-res digital rips on flac :green:
Not being into vinyl is more a financial issue than anything else, the equipment isn't cheap! I'm saving my pennies for Schiit's new "statement" DAC that's pending release. I like my Bifrost, especially after the "uber" analog board upgrade (USB board upgrade soon as well), I'm sure their new DAC is going to be spectacular... and I like the upgradeability and that it's made in the USA.
I did make another cable though... Duelund silver foil signal wire, Neotech OCC copper ground wires, Furutech FP-101 RCA plugs. This cable cost 10x more in parts... :icon_twisted:
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l318/davec113/Cables%204-21-13/DuelundNeotechFurutechCables004_zps79c7a800.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/user/davec113/media/Cables%204-21-13/DuelundNeotechFurutechCables004_zps79c7a800.jpg.html)
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l318/davec113/Cables%204-21-13/DuelundNeotechFurutechCables011_zps2aee53bd.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/user/davec113/media/Cables%204-21-13/DuelundNeotechFurutechCables011_zps2aee53bd.jpg.html)
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Dave, here is a DAC to consider. A work in progress since NOV 30 2009, the Bottlehead DAC by John Swenson will be a good one and will be
finished very soon. It is a kit I think. Check it out. Dave, if you make a custom bike and sell for $60,000 this will finance all your audio purchases. I am not kidding. With regards to vinyl two options. First try craigslist for a good quality used Technics SL1200 MK2 turntable. Don't buy a junk one. You can pick up one for $300 to $500. Be patient and be very selective. It may up to 6 months to find the one you want.
Option two. Make your own turntable. diyaudio forum is a good place to start. Your work place may have the parts you need. Your engineering friends can help you. Option 3. your audiophile friends feel sorry for you and give you a free turntable! Ok change that to they let
you borrow their turntable.
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Dave, way to go o your higher end cable. It has the perfect snob appeal to go along with the movie The Great Gatsby. I think this new cable
will give you a lot of credibility. A low cost relatively speaking cable for those of us with modest means. And for those others I say, pay more to get more. It is good to have two cables with two different prices.
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I have two pairs of Dave's ICs in da house. They do no harm. Neutral in character. I'm very interested in the Duelund cables. Using the ICs inbetween Plinius CD101 and Loesch & Weisner preamp. Then from BSG QOL to Arion Amps. So far so good. Try them and find out if they are a fit for your system. Not a dealer for Dave.
charles
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Hi xsb, I will definitely check out the Bottlehead DAC, hopefully it can do 24/192 asynch USB :) Just got the new USB board in my Bifrost, it is awesome... I will look into vinyl one of these days, thanks for the tt suggestions :thumb:
Charles, glad you are liking the ICs and I think you have found their charm... they add nothing and are extremely neutral. This allows detail to come through that doesn't in many other cables.
I finished up building a cable that is the same as the Duelund wire cable but with the Neotech EC-UPOCC wire used in the original IC. It has the same character as the cables you are currently trying out, but is significantly better. Not surprising, as it uses Furutech's high-end RCA plugs and Neotech OCC copper ground wires. Parts cost is about 5x higher, so far I think it's just as good as the Duelund cable, but with significantly different character.
The Neotech EC-UPOCC wire is very neutral, while the Duelund wire adds some harmonic "richness" to the sound. I'd say the Duelund wire is a touch on the dark and rich side, but it still has the character of the silver used for the conductor material, so it doesn't sound closed or rolled off. Also, like the Neotech wire, it does not add undesirable harshness, glare or sibilance to the music, it still sounds very clean, and many people may find the little bit of "extra" the Duelund wire adds to be desirable.
I am (temporarily) going to price the cables as follows:
-Neotech EC-UPOCC signal wire, Neotech OCC/Teflon ground wires, Furutech FP-101 RCA plugs > $299
-Dueleund 1.0 Silver/Silk & Oil signal wire, Neotech OCC/Teflon ground wires, Furutech FP-101 RCA plugs > $499
I will keep these prices for the first half dozen or so cables, then I will need to raise the prices about $100... I'd like to get some of these cables out there and I am willing to do it for unreasonably low prices... :green:
Here's a couple pics of the $299 cable:
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l318/davec113/Cables%204-21-13/HighEndNeotechFurutechCables001_zpsfc42fa61.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/user/davec113/media/Cables%204-21-13/HighEndNeotechFurutechCables001_zpsfc42fa61.jpg.html)
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l318/davec113/Cables%204-21-13/HighEndNeotechFurutechCables004_zpscb375bfb.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/user/davec113/media/Cables%204-21-13/HighEndNeotechFurutechCables004_zpscb375bfb.jpg.html)
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I say don't bite off more than you can chew. In the past 10 years in the world of audio a few reputable vendors in the end did not fill their orders. The customers lost their money. How can you take orders if you know you cannot fill them. Don't be greedy. Is it not logical to take only as many orders as you can handle? That can be as few as 2 orders per month. Am I wrong on this? Something to ponder.
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For those that want to know about the Bottlehead DAC. Look up Bottlehead Forum. Than look for the heading that says Digital. Read all 4 threads. Taking orders. Bottlehead DAC prototyping takes another step forward. DAC Progress New. DAC progress.
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Dave, we have accumulated a lot of knowledge and understanding of amplifiers and speakers during the past decades. A body of work exists for amps and speakers. Would it be fair to say that we have less knowledge of interconnects, speaker cables, and power cords? An University of Hawaii biochemist develops treatment for box jellyfish sting. It took 14 years of research for her to understand and develop a treatment. She discovered that there was not much research done on box jellyfish venom and no reliable antidote. Your cable venture is sailing into uncharted waters. Like the biochemist you will make your own discoveries. Google diyAudio cables. Here are some threads from
diyAudio Forum. Cotton OCC 5N silver interconnect Cables. One way to make expensive speaker cables! interesting interconnect cables. Burn in speakercable. I don't beleive cables makes a difference, any input? Homebuilt speaker cables-5th generation. Looking for DIY interconnect Links. DIY speaker cable, need some advices opinions. want to make cables. Power and speaker cables. I hope these threads
will help you in your quest for knowledge. Regardless, you will have fun making your cables and contributing to the world of audio.
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No worries, xsb. This is a very small, straightforward business. It's likely to stay that way too, everyone is going to get what they order.
I believe we can't correlate signal measurements to useful audible results in some cases, which makes things more difficult and provides a hiding place for unscrupulous vendors of questionable audio related items. Cables are certainly in this realm, which is why I'm taking this approach... You know exactly what's in my cables, and the price is very reasonable for what you get. I'd put my cables up against any out there regardless of price. :green:
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You snooze you lose. I knew nothing about upgraded RCA plugs. Doing some digging, I found these: Furutech, Neotech, Vampire, Xhadow, Eichmann, WBT, Cardas, Clearaudio. Dave, did you experiment with any of these? Was Furutech the best choice for you?
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Dave, just saw this. For the guy who must have everything, Furutech CF-102 R RCA connector $171.00 a pair. Maybe you can experiment with this one.
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DaveC113, when you make your power cord will you use Furutech male ac plugs connectors? Furutech IEC Plugs?
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I've used Furutech, Vampire, Neotech and Eichmann RCAs on the high end. I really like Furutech connectors... I have seen the CF-102s, they are pricey! I may check them out sometime but I have a hard time believing they can be much better than the 101s which are reasonably priced for top of the line RCA plugs. I have not tried WBT because of the cost and I heard from a source I trust that they have a bright edge to them...
I have no plans to offer a power cord anytime soon... I have experimented with a only a half dozen or so and they sound good vs. a std PC but they are not at the level of my ICs and SCs. The ones I have made use Wattgate connectors, I have not stepped up to higher quality Furutech AC connectors yet, but that's what I'd use if I had the cash.
I am excited about getting 14 gauge Neotech EC-UPOCC wire to make speaker cables with. Currently, the largest gauge is 20g... the 14g will be my OEM product and I will be the only one that has it! I can choose the color too, considering black and white... the inverse color pattern of the 22g I use for my ICs. The 20g speaker cable is awesome, but limited to low power applications. I think the same cable made with 14g wire is going to be great for higher powered systems, and I can make cables with a double run to get down to 11g.
I am also looking into getting 22g Neotech EC-UPOCC silver wire... will have to see what the price ends up being, minimum orders of custom made wire are fairly large and silver isn't cheap these days...
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Just a FYI, I'm running a few auctions on ebay right now with prices starting a bit lower. One especially good deal is the IC cable made from Duelund 1.0 Silver/Silk signal wire, Neotech UPOCC copper ground wire and Furutech FP-101 RCAs starting at only $399, which is less than the retail cost of the parts used to make it... You can hit "see other items" for a full list of the auctions I am running.
I am especially happy to hear my basic IC cable ($140, but there's an auction starting at $115) compares favorably with a highly regarded IC that retails for $1k, the ASI Liveline...
"Dave,
cables came today - thanks so much. They are in place of my ASI Liveline ICs now and are sounding great.
I'll keep you up to date on my impressions,"
-N
http://www.ebay.com/itm/330936215467?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
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amazing ICs & Speaker Cables got some to use on my cary300sei and my custom shop super6 omegas (by the one and only Louis ) my system now sounds really superb ,dave cables outperformed my dnm and my now to be sold $3000 overpriced and overhyped snake oil garden hose speaker cables, system sounded excellent with the DNM but daves cables sent it to a new level ..soundstage and tonality wise...they are keepers for sure ,,dodger4
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I had purchased a standard IC (Dave I) and was really taken by them. I like the SQ of the OCC wire and already having an example in my system was intrigued by Dave's. After some time on the Dave I, I found the SQ exceeded another OCC cable that I had in place. I sent Dave a ping for another IC and Dave was nice enough the offer audition of the Dave II.
Dave I
The signature of the cable is clarity and image focus. It is like the fuzz is removed from the edges. On first listen I thought he bass was diminished, but it was in reality just tighter. This became even more so after some time on the cables. They just got cleaner and tighter. Voice is presently nicely and pace an tone are right on. Cassandra Wilson, James Taylor, Sade, the tone and warmth of the mids and treble are very good and clear as a bell. A caveat is I have monitor speakers that go pretty low for monitors, but they are monitors. All of the bass is there, an example is Cassandra Wilson, Loverly, The Very Thought of you. If you don't have any Cassandra Wilson in your collection, you are really missing out. Piano is done very well, no stridency or muddiness. Keith Jarrett, Kohln Concert is a beautiful thing.
Dave II
Everything the Dave I does, the Dave II does better. This is not night and day, but clearly better in every way. The noise floor is lower and has even more clarity, liveliness, tone, note decay... Everything is just better. On Cassandra Wilson. Loverly, Dust My Broom, the lead in drum and transition to the bass, the guitar! Off the chain!. Another example, James Taylor, Nearness of You, Don't Let Me be Lonely Tonight. The warmth and tone of his voice is right on.
I really like the Dave I, but the Dave II is in another league. Benz and AMG, both good, but....
I thank Dave for the opportunity to audition the Dave II IC, which I have purchased. I definitely want give a listen to the higher power speaker cables when available. The cost to performance ratio of his offerings is way off the scale.
My system
Amp Odyssey Khartago mono's ++
Pre Response Audio Bella-Max(Purity One prototype)
DAC NorthStar M192
Transport NorthStar M192
Speaker Salk HT1
Phono Heed Quasar
TT Thorens TD-125 MKII
IC Source to pre - Soundstring
IC Pre to amp - Dave II - replacing Dave I
IC Phono to pre - Clarity Cable - Harvest
SP Coz bi-wire
Music
Cassandra Wilson, Loverly
Michael Brecker, Nearness of You
Sade, Lovers Rock
Keith Jarrett, Kohln Concert
Tord Guvstavsen, The Ground
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Great review, mdfoy!!! :thumb:
You should definitely post a link to it in the Cable Reviews (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=99.0) section, if not move it there entirely.
Other than that, did someone say 'cable tour'? :wink:
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dodger4 and mdfoy, I really appreciate your reviews, thank you! :thumb:
I am very happy everyone likes these cables, the response has exceeded my expectations. :D
JerryM, yes I will do a cable tour. I am considering waiting until I get the 14 gauge EC-UPOCC wire in from Neotech so I can make 14 gauge speaker cables. It will be here in about a month... but maybe I should do ICs and SCs as separate tours?
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Yes, do the IC's as a separate tour.
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OK, I will start a thread for an IC tour as soon as I catch up with building cables! :D
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Tour is posted here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=118081.0
Also, I did some updates to my website... :)
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After doing some reading, it seems that Furutech is the way to go which is why Dave uses Furutech. For example BigE a diy guy switched over to Furutech FP903(G) RCA jack. He said do not underestimate the effect of good RCA jacks. Also Furutech makes good IEC inlets.
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I forgot to mention the Furutech binding post. Some believe this is the best and makes a big difference.
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Hi xsb,
I agree that good connectors and jacks make a fairly large difference in sound, especially if your gear uses steel wiring connectors and large, cheap binding posts. It is worth it to go through your equipment and replace the signal wiring and connectors with high quality parts.
I am impressed with Furutech's design and sound quality, I think they make the best connectors on the market. They do make some parts that are outrageously expensive, but the parts I choose to use in my cables are a great value.
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Again from my research , it is a safe bet to use Furutech. When it comes to wall outlet/receptacle and wall plate/cover everybody has a different opinion. One of these days I will get rid of my cheap one that came with the house. What do you guys like?
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I replaced the wall outlet with a Hubbell 5362 cryo-treated one (~ $30) and found a great improvement. There is a thread in the PLR circle I started on this topic. However, opinions vary on this subject.
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I have not tried out many different electric receptacles, but I currently use a Leviton MRI82-T, which is hospital grade and specified for MRI rooms as it does not have any magnetic parts:
http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ProductDetail.jsp?partnumber=MRI82-T§ion=42416&minisite=10251
I have my amp and a SurgeX SX1115-RT plugged directly into the receptacle, with everything else plugged into the SurgeX. The receptacle made a noticeable improvement in sound quality in my system, and I plan on replacing the receptacles in the Surge X with the Leviton MRI receptacles in the near future.
It would be nice to try out some "audiophile" receptacles made by Furutech and others sometime as well... I do wonder how much of an improvement they might make over the Leviton.
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I have detailed pricing on the 14 gauge wire and speaker cable now.
The 14 gauge Neotech EC-UPOCC copper wire will sell for $8.59/ft.
I am going to make it available in bulk as well as finished speaker cable so people can use it for internal speaker wiring, crossovers, hook up wire inside amps, etc.
One caveat is that tinning the ends will require a solder pot, but a high wattage soldering iron with a large tip may work as well.
I will have an introductory price on speaker cable, the deal will be you get a finished set of speaker cables for the price of parts!
So an 8' set of SCs costs $275 without connectors. The connector prices are listed below, I can also do half spades and half bananas of course.
The "FP" and "FT" type connectors come with either Gold or Rhodium plating, prices are listed for both in G/R format.
Add $96/$172 for Furutech FP-200B(G/R) Bananas
Add $290/350 for Furutech FT-212(G/R) Bananas
Add $900 for Furutech CF-202(R) Bananas
Add $140/180 for Furutech FP-201(G/R) Spades
Add $250/280 for Furutech FT-211(G/R) Spades
Add $725 for Furutech CF-201(R) Spades
I think the best bang for your buck is with the FP-201(G) spades, an 8 foot set would cost $415. With half FP spades and half FP bananas the price would be $393.
In the future I do plan on actually charging for cable construction, but for now I would like to get as many cables out there as I can :thumb:
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What is the insulation on the 14 gauge Neotech EC-UPOCC copper wire? Single conductor? Thanks.
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Hi cab, the 14 gauge wire is made of ~1060 strands of 44 gauge UPOCC copper, each strand is individually enamel insulated and braided around a flat film core. The wire is enclosed in a cloth jacket made of 70% cotton, 30% polyester.
The 20 gauge wire is pictured below, the 14g wire is the same except scaled up. The film core is colored red with a sharpie for better visibility. The 14g wire will have a black jacket with white accents.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=83950)
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Here's a prototype D1 XLR cable. Launche and pfarthings are going to give it a try, I appreciate it guys! :thumb:
It uses Furutech FP-701M and FP-702F gold plated XLR connectors. They are very robust connectors with a metal body and spring-type strain reliefs. The 22 gauge Neotech EC-UPOCC wires are braided with 18 gauge mil spec ground wires. This cable takes a bit more time, effort and money to build, but price will definitely be under $200.
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l318/davec113/XLR%20Cable/XLRCable005_zpsb71d1df0.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/user/davec113/media/XLR%20Cable/XLRCable005_zpsb71d1df0.jpg.html)
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l318/davec113/XLR%20Cable/XLRCable006_zps4fc65d3b.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/user/davec113/media/XLR%20Cable/XLRCable006_zps4fc65d3b.jpg.html)
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l318/davec113/XLR%20Cable/XLRCable007_zpsafbe06ae.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/user/davec113/media/XLR%20Cable/XLRCable007_zpsafbe06ae.jpg.html)
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l318/davec113/XLR%20Cable/XLRCable009_zps4fb18730.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/user/davec113/media/XLR%20Cable/XLRCable009_zps4fb18730.jpg.html)
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l318/davec113/XLR%20Cable/b4259df5-c46f-496f-aa93-144e37ce8d17_zps48270864.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/user/davec113/media/XLR%20Cable/b4259df5-c46f-496f-aa93-144e37ce8d17_zps48270864.jpg.html)
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No, thank you Dave for accommodating the request. I am very pleased to be able to audition your cables. They look nice and I'm looking forward to hearing them.
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Might need to be moved to the industry ads section but we'll let Pez or whoever currently facilitates this circle decide.
Right. It would be more helpful if you followed the published guidelines (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=about;area=industry-participant#posting-rules) to start with.
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Sorry, I am trying... :oops:
I figured the mod here would move the thread as needed, I did not start it.
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I figured the mod here would move the thread as needed, I did not start it.
Sorry but that's nonsense. Why should anyone do extra work for your sake? Read the guidelines!! Please!!????
Thanks ;)
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I sent you a PM John. I am trying, really. :oops:
I read the guidelines, asked for my membership to be changed to Industry Participant or Contributor and suggested this thread be moved in the first post I made. I cannot delete or move threads myself. Anyway, would be great to keep this to PMs, I would really like to follow any and all rules here and I am not breaking any on purpose.
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Look. You can't make commercial/promotional posts in a non-commercial area. That's just simple and obvious. You can't excuse it with "someone else started the thread." Please just use the designated commercial areas for commercial posts.
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JohnR, you're right and this thread is now in the right section. Sorry about that. Now for good news!
DHL was a couple days late, and my tracking info said my package was in Tokyo yesterday, but I called and it was sitting at the local delivery dock... not being delivered.
But I got it today! :D
The wire is made of 1060 strands of 44 gauge UPOCC copper, enamel insulated and braided around a thin/flat film core. Pretty cool!
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l318/davec113/14%20Gauge%20Neotech%20EC_UPOCC%20Wire/14GaugeNeotechEC-UPOCCWire001_zps68ac4f26.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/user/davec113/media/14%20Gauge%20Neotech%20EC_UPOCC%20Wire/14GaugeNeotechEC-UPOCCWire001_zps68ac4f26.jpg.html)
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l318/davec113/14%20Gauge%20Neotech%20EC_UPOCC%20Wire/14GaugeNeotechEC-UPOCCWire002_zps0c6d653c.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/user/davec113/media/14%20Gauge%20Neotech%20EC_UPOCC%20Wire/14GaugeNeotechEC-UPOCCWire002_zps0c6d653c.jpg.html)
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l318/davec113/14%20Gauge%20Neotech%20EC_UPOCC%20Wire/14GaugeNeotechEC-UPOCCWire011_zpsa42f310d.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/user/davec113/media/14%20Gauge%20Neotech%20EC_UPOCC%20Wire/14GaugeNeotechEC-UPOCCWire011_zpsa42f310d.jpg.html)
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Oh, interesting. These Furutech XLRs are really great, but did you try Neutriks, though? I just finished comparing about 6 sets of balanced cables and the ones I liked most used cheapo Neutriks (though the cable itself is hideously expensive)
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Oh, interesting. These Furutech XLRs are really great, but did you try Neutriks, though? I just finished comparing about 6 sets of balanced cables and the ones I liked most used cheapo Neutriks (though the cable itself is hideously expensive)
No, I have not tried Neutrik yet. The Furutech plugs I'm using look like Abbatron connectors with a couple differences. I look forward to hearing what you think of the XLR cable!
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Some pics of cables...
14 Gauge Speaker Cables
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l318/davec113/Cables%208-14-13/DSC06574_zpsaf497dff.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/user/davec113/media/Cables%208-14-13/DSC06574_zpsaf497dff.jpg.html)
Furutech FT Series Spades and Bananas on 14 Gauge Speaker Cables
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l318/davec113/Cables%208-14-13/DSC06572_zpsed32b386.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/user/davec113/media/Cables%208-14-13/DSC06572_zpsed32b386.jpg.html)
11 Gauge Speaker Cables
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l318/davec113/Cables%208-14-13/DSC06581_zpscaf4493a.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/user/davec113/media/Cables%208-14-13/DSC06581_zpscaf4493a.jpg.html)
11 Gauge Speaker Cables, There are flexible leadout wires going into the spades that can be bent to suit.
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l318/davec113/Cables%208-14-13/DSC06580_zps3cef095d.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/user/davec113/media/Cables%208-14-13/DSC06580_zps3cef095d.jpg.html)
D2 IC Cable
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l318/davec113/Cables%208-14-13/DSC06589_zpsed10db74.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/user/davec113/media/Cables%208-14-13/DSC06589_zpsed10db74.jpg.html)
Furutech FP-101 RCA Plugs
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l318/davec113/Cables%208-14-13/DSC06593_zpsf9690ba9.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/user/davec113/media/Cables%208-14-13/DSC06593_zpsf9690ba9.jpg.html)
DD IC Cable
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l318/davec113/Cables%208-14-13/DSC06597_zps095d3fc8.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/user/davec113/media/Cables%208-14-13/DSC06597_zps095d3fc8.jpg.html)
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Hi Dave,
Thanks for making your cable designs so available. I built, and have been using for some time a 1/2 metre pair of Deulund 0.5 in simple parallel configuration using Eichmann Silver RCA Bullet Plugs. Soon I will want to connect a device between my dac and amplifier and will need a second pair of interconnects, ideally matching. The Deulund silver is expensive and I want to save on expenditure at the moment by not having to buy more. Your DD design interests me because I could use the existing returns from both cables to make two new pairs using your configuration, though to save on cash I might use the copper version of the Eichmann Bullet plugs, of which I have a spare set already.
My questions are.....have you compared my existing simple parallel Deulund design to your DD? Have you tried crossing the Deulund foils to compare with simple parallel, as described in the attached link? If any or all of the forgoing what was your experience? Finally, do you have a preference for stranded or solid core Neotech for the return from a sound point of view?
http://www.hificollective.co.uk/kits/pdf/duelund_wbt_interconnect_review.pdf
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Hi Liam,
Yes, I have tried some different configurations, I will send you a PM.
I will say I am not a fan of parallel runs of wire in ICs. :green:
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Thanks for your prompt pm Dave. I cannot pm you back at the moment, being a new member that is restricted. I appreciate your advices. As I said in my original post I have a set of the copper Eichmanns' so I will use those to keep cost down at the moment, there being potential further outlay when I trial the equipment the cables will be needed for. The Neotech wire is available locally, so I will go with that. Thanks again and I will keep in touch with the cable tour to learn how others appreciate your different designs.
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I am testing out Neotech's new OCC silver/gold alloy wire. It is 99% silver and 1% gold made with the OCC process and insulated with PE.
The cable uses 4 braided strands of 28 gauge wire, which is braided with the two 18 gauge UPOCC copper ground wires.
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l318/davec113/Cables%208-14-13/DSC06607_zpsc0055ad2.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/user/davec113/media/Cables%208-14-13/DSC06607_zpsc0055ad2.jpg.html)
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l318/davec113/Cables%208-14-13/DSC06611_zps869ea0e8.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/user/davec113/media/Cables%208-14-13/DSC06611_zps869ea0e8.jpg.html)
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l318/davec113/Cables%208-14-13/DSC06612_zpsa7b6504e.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/user/davec113/media/Cables%208-14-13/DSC06612_zpsa7b6504e.jpg.html)
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I am testing out Neotech's new OCC silver/gold alloy wire. It is 99% silver and 1% gold made with the OCC process and insulated with PE.
The cable uses 4 braided strands of 28 gauge wire, which is braided with the two 18 gauge UPOCC copper ground wires.
This sounds interesting. Do you hear a difference between multi-multi strand cables and cables using single or dual strands per leg? There have been "claims" that the fewer strands the better, supposedly providing more coherence and better timing with equal bandwidth. Both Darwin and Tempo Electric (as well as Audioquest, IIRC) make that claim.
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From my experience, the biggest contributing factors to overall sound quality with the signal leg of an IC cable are material and geometry.
Geometry that reduces the skin effect seems to work best, the D1 and D2 IC cable's signal wire is made of ~166 individually insulated strands of 44 gauge UPOCC copper... it is a litz cable developed for audio use. Litz wire was originally developed for RF applications and is intended to eliminate skin effect.
Duelund and others use a different approach, they use a flat wire or foil type geometry that reduces the thickness and increases the surface area of the conductor.
So in some of my cables there is one strand (DD) and others (D1, D2) have ~166 separate strands. Both work great. So I suppose I don't agree that fewer strands are better. There are far more important factors and using a single strand of wire with a round cross section is never going to provide optimal results imo.
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Has anybody done this? Replace the stock wires in the amp or inside the preamp. Superfluous?
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Has anybody done this? Replace the stock wires in the amp or inside the preamp. Superfluous?
Sure, also the wiring inside the speaker cabinet. It make as much difference as cabling, but the runs inside amps/pres tend to be very short so it won't have as much of an effect as the much longer IC cables.
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So... Neotech's brand new OCC silver/gold alloy wire is ridiculously good. It's an easily audible upgrade over the D2 and about the same difference in performance as the D2 is over the D1. It's also significantly better than the same cable made with Neotech's UPOCC silver wire!
I'm breaking in a DD cable made with Duelund 2.0 silver/silk/oil wire... when that's further along I will compare the Neotech silver/gold cable to the Duelund silver cable.
This will be added to the catalog as the D3. 8) Price is the same as the Duelund cable, $425 for 1 meter, $325 for .5 meters.
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l318/davec113/Cables%208-14-13/DSC06612_zpsa7b6504e.jpg) (http://s99.photobucket.com/user/davec113/media/Cables%208-14-13/DSC06612_zpsa7b6504e.jpg.html)
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Dave break in those Duelunds for 500 hours. Mine are still changing with 150 hours. However the top end is so natural and pure. Same character as the Duelund CAST caps. They took 750 hours to stop changing. Lots of dielectric to settle.
The D2 is brighter than the Duelund but not Hi Fi sounding. I'm liking both very much in my system. The D2 from CDP to Pre and DD from QOL to Amps.
The DD even though still changing is clearly a step in the right direction in my system. The d2 fits the warm character of the Plinius CDP as well as the Esoteric line of CDP.
My personal Arion mono blocks with Duelund CAST output caps have a wonderful synergy with the duelund cables. When all is fully broken in will report my findings.
Dave consider a Cable Cooker your customers will be glad you did.
charles
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Has anyone heard Dave's speakers cables? Are they similar sounding to his ICs? Any comparisons would be welcome.
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Has anyone heard Dave's speakers cables? Are they similar sounding to his ICs? Any comparisons would be welcome.
I have Dave's Speaker Cables.
Yes, there is a similarity (a house sound) to the IC's.
They present a very open, wide and deep sound.
It is as if they have a wide dynamic range.
I am very pleased with them.
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Hi jonbee,
Yes, the D1 IC, D2 IC, and all the speaker cables are made with Neotech EC-UPOCC copper wire in various gauges. The ICs are 22g, the speaker cables are 11, 14 and 20 gauge. This Neotech wire is the best copper wire I have ever used and is a great value. I can make a Duelund silver speaker cable but it will be very, very expensive. :)
Hi rollo,
Thanks for your comments! :thumb: I agree the DD is a just a nice sounding cable, the Duelund wire is very unique (and very expensive at $30/ft).
I have a system set up to burn in cables now! I doubt folks want to wait for it but I will consider adding a burn in service as an (no-cost) option.
Hi ZLS,
Thanks for your comments, I agree dynamics are a strong point and a characteristic of UPOCC copper over regular copper. They are very fast, detailed and open without any harshness that can cause fatigue.
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I have Dave's Speaker Cables.
Yes, there is a similarity (a house sound) to the IC's.
They present a very open, wide and deep sound.
It is as if they have a wide dynamic range.
I am very pleased with them.
Thanks. After I have my Daedalus speaker upgrades completed in the next month or so, I'll take a more serious look at them.
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Is the Neotech 26 gauge occ silver/gold alloy you are selling by the foot solid or stranded?
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Is the Neotech 26 gauge occ silver/gold alloy you are selling by the foot solid or stranded?
It's solid-core. Thanks for the question!
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It's solid-core. Thanks for the question!
That is good! Apart from usually sounding better, it is also much easier to work with than stranded stuff. :D
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That is good! Apart from usually sounding better, it is also much easier to work with than stranded stuff. :D
Just to be clear, it's not the wire in the pic in the post above... that's the standard wire offered by Neotech, which is stranded with soft clear PE insulation... good for headphone cables for sure, but with IC/SC you don't need so much flexibility so I have Neotech make me a solid-core / teflon version. My solid core version does sound a little better. :green: