"Not a Starter" SLR Gift Question

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Odal3

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Re: "Not a Starter" SLR Gift Question
« Reply #20 on: 6 Jun 2016, 06:02 pm »
Listen to the expert. Excellent advice

Escott1377

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Re: "Not a Starter" SLR Gift Question
« Reply #21 on: 6 Jun 2016, 06:14 pm »
I would look at a Canon 5D on the used market.  Try and get an idea of the number of shots the camera has used.  I "think" I sold mine for around $1,200 about a year ago and that was about 50% retail.

It has ridiculous amount of ISO for low light shooting - I was shooting a lot of concerts.

Look on Ebay for glass as well.  You will be paying about 50% of retail and there is always of turnover since most die hards are looking for the latest revision.

I have been out of i for a while, but the 25 - 70 2.8 / Non IS (image stabilization) is great lens and can be cheap since Canon has introduced a full IS version.  It was always my "walk around" glass.

The 70 - 200 L 2.8 IS mentioned previously is killer lens also.  I sold mine for around 50% of retail also and there is a new iteration out on it.

I like the low apertures since I was typically shooting in music venues.

Beware - a camera hobby can rival the amount of money spent on stereo components as well :)

thunderbrick

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Re: "Not a Starter" SLR Gift Question
« Reply #22 on: 6 Jun 2016, 06:30 pm »
Not a big fan of ebay because you are competing against people from everywhere.   Try local photo groups or Craigslist.   I oversee the Ozarks Shutter Junkies on FB.  Tons of valuable info there from people's direct experience, and there are FB pages for buying and selling gear.

If you are near a larger city consider renting used gear from a good B&M shop.  Best way to find out what "fits" her needs.

ACHiPo

Re: "Not a Starter" SLR Gift Question
« Reply #23 on: 6 Jun 2016, 10:48 pm »
You are erring on the side of buying too much at first.
As you note, she has to tell you the lens mount system she prefers (nikon, canon, sony, 4/3rds)
She actually has no idea based on the camera she uses now. I would advise Nikon, but Canon is fine too.
This is where you go to read on camera and reviews on them, etc.
http://www.dpreview.com/


THANK YOU!!!  Great feedback and advice! :bowdown:

ACHiPo

Re: "Not a Starter" SLR Gift Question
« Reply #24 on: 6 Jun 2016, 10:51 pm »
I would look at a Canon 5D on the used market.  Try and get an idea of the number of shots the camera has used.  I "think" I sold mine for around $1,200 about a year ago and that was about 50% retail.

It has ridiculous amount of ISO for low light shooting - I was shooting a lot of concerts.

Look on Ebay for glass as well.  You will be paying about 50% of retail and there is always of turnover since most die hards are looking for the latest revision.

I have been out of i for a while, but the 25 - 70 2.8 / Non IS (image stabilization) is great lens and can be cheap since Canon has introduced a full IS version.  It was always my "walk around" glass.

The 70 - 200 L 2.8 IS mentioned previously is killer lens also.  I sold mine for around 50% of retail also and there is a new iteration out on it.

I like the low apertures since I was typically shooting in music venues.

Beware - a camera hobby can rival the amount of money spent on stereo components as well :)
Eric,
If this was for me, I'd definitely be up for the CL or ebay route.  Given that it's to reward my darling daughter for kicking butt (and getting a job) in chemical engineering, I figure I can splurge for new.  Additions to feed the habit, however, will be much more frugal.

Thanks!

Evan

ACHiPo

Re: "Not a Starter" SLR Gift Question
« Reply #25 on: 6 Jun 2016, 10:53 pm »
Not a big fan of ebay because you are competing against people from everywhere.   Try local photo groups or Craigslist.   I oversee the Ozarks Shutter Junkies on FB.  Tons of valuable info there from people's direct experience, and there are FB pages for buying and selling gear.

If you are near a larger city consider renting used gear from a good B&M shop.  Best way to find out what "fits" her needs.
TB,
That may be a good way to proceed once she gets relocated from Seattle to Flagstaff.  I'd kinda like to get her something when I'm in Seattle this week, but I also don't want to rush a pretty big expenditure.

AC

drewm

Re: "Not a Starter" SLR Gift Question
« Reply #26 on: 6 Jun 2016, 11:30 pm »
I really think you need to give us some kind of price range that you're looking at, this thread is really all over the place.

I shoot a Nikon D5500 with a lot of lenses, and sometimes a Canon 6D with 24-70 F/2.8 L, and can tell you that the Nikon DX bodies and lenses offers way way more value for money, but it's comparing $600 with $3000, you have to know what price range you're looking at. Cameras also are all diminishing returns as you get up in price, just like speakers.

From her photos on the front, high iso ability is probably pretty far down on the list of needs, so I'd even more highly recommend sticking with the Nikon DX format.

On a great deal you can find the D3300 with kit lens refurbished for about $300:
http://slickdeals.net/f/8797727-nikon-d3300-24-2mp-dslr-camera-w-18-55mm-vr-ii-lens-refurbished-299-free-shipping?src=SiteSearch

Or the D5500 and kit lens refurbished for about $500:
http://slickdeals.net/f/8728079-nikon-d5500-24-2mp-dx-format-dslr-camera-with-18-55mm-vr-ii-lens-refurbished-499-free-shipping-ebay-daily-deal

I've owned 4 refurbished Nikons DSLRs and have had no issues at all. Along with the kit 18-55mm (landscape, macro, general use) grab a 35mm F/1.8 DX prime (indoor portrait, low light, bokeh) new for $170, and a 55-200mm VR (outdoor portrait, distance, bokeh, wildlife) for $90 used and that's nearly all the lenses you'll ever need for any situation.
« Last Edit: 7 Jun 2016, 06:05 am by drewm »

audioguy213

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Re: "Not a Starter" SLR Gift Question
« Reply #27 on: 7 Jun 2016, 12:13 am »
FYI - in 15 years the digital camera body you buy today will have been replaced (maybe 2 or 3 times over), but she still will have whatever lenses you buy for a lifetime.

For the professional zooms, I like to rent them from:
 borrowlenses.com
(you can rent locally in many cities, not sure about Flagstaff though)

Want to take a trip and try out a new $2000 lens, rent it for a week for $100 and see what it can do,
see how you like the weight and image quality and focal range. Or if she ever has a specialty macro need, same idea she can rent a variety of focal lengths to see what she likes.


My personal favorite lens is a 50/1.8 that cost me $89 new and has taken more photos for me than any other due to it's simplicity and convenience.  On a DX crop you may want 30mm or 35mm 1.4 or 1.8 instead.

Thirty years from now your daughter will be taking pictures on some 1 billion megapixel camera, but still using the prime lenses you got her this week.

Glazers camera in Seattle is decent.

Ordering online from B&H or Adorama is fast, tax free, and they also have interesting used lens collections that are WORTH looking at once you know what lenses you want.
They test their lenses, and I have bought many used lenses from B&H with awesome results (they stand behind their stuff too).

thunderbrick

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Re: "Not a Starter" SLR Gift Question
« Reply #28 on: 7 Jun 2016, 02:02 am »
TB,
That may be a good way to proceed once she gets relocated from Seattle to Flagstaff.  I'd kinda like to get her something when I'm in Seattle this week, but I also don't want to rush a pretty big expenditure.

AC

I was just in Flagstaff last month.  Buy it in Seattle!  The only camera shop was in Sedona and it was, uh, underwhelming, to say the least.    :thumbdown:

thunderbrick

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Re: "Not a Starter" SLR Gift Question
« Reply #29 on: 7 Jun 2016, 02:08 am »
I'd strongly consider Nikon's D7100 or 7200 over the 5000 series.  They feel solid without being too heavy.  Well-balanced with both light and heavy glass attached.

Yes, you can go with the kit lenses (18-55/55-200) but a 17-55 2.8 will produce much better images and will hold up to years of abuse, the kit lens won't.  I've also heard that the 70-300VR lens is really quite sharp, far superior to the 55-200.

And if she wants to shoot the night sky in Arizona, the 2.8 lens will be the way to go.  It's not a toy, it's a real tool.



drewm

Re: "Not a Starter" SLR Gift Question
« Reply #30 on: 7 Jun 2016, 08:45 am »
I'd strongly consider Nikon's D7100 or 7200 over the 5000 series.  They feel solid without being too heavy.  Well-balanced with both light and heavy glass attached.

Yes, you can go with the kit lenses (18-55/55-200) but a 17-55 2.8 will produce much better images and will hold up to years of abuse, the kit lens won't.  I've also heard that the 70-300VR lens is really quite sharp, far superior to the 55-200.

And if she wants to shoot the night sky in Arizona, the 2.8 lens will be the way to go.  It's not a toy, it's a real tool.

You know, I didn't much like the grip on the D3300 with my big lenses, but the D5500 grip is really deep and the whole camera is actually quite solid. I shoot everything from a 35mm DX prime to a 4lbs Tamron 150-600mm and have no complaints. Give it a grab if you're ever around a camera store. They really did wonders with it for being such a small camera body.

I also want to point out that the above 17-55mm 2.8 is a $1500 lens, which may sticker shock the OP. I find the 18-55mm kit lens to be way sharper than I need, especially stopped down to F/8 for landscapes.

Also, since the 70-300mm VR is a full frame lens, were you actually thinking of the 55-300mm VR DX instead?
http://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/product/camera-lenses/af-s-dx-nikkor-55-300mm-f%252f4.5-5.6g-ed-vr.html

I also own that lens, and can say it gives you a bit more reach, but image quality-wise, it's a teeny bit worse than the 55-200mm.

ACHiPo

Re: "Not a Starter" SLR Gift Question
« Reply #31 on: 7 Jun 2016, 12:14 pm »
I really think you need to give us some kind of price range that you're looking at, this thread is really all over the place.

I shoot a Nikon D5500 with a lot of lenses, and sometimes a Canon 6D with 24-70 F/2.8 L, and can tell you that the Nikon DX bodies and lenses offers way way more value for money, but it's comparing $600 with $3000, you have to know what price range you're looking at. Cameras also are all diminishing returns as you get up in price, just like speakers.

I want to keep the total under $2k, which should be enough for a top consumer body and at least one good lens.  I talked to my daughter last night and she checked out some cameras and said she prefers the feel of the Canon, but I'm not sure which one, so I still want to find a good brick and mortar camera store in Seattle so she can handle a variety of options.  It's very unlike me, but this is one time when I'm willing to pay retail in exchange for the opportunity to compare several options and get some hopefully good advice. 

ACHiPo

Re: "Not a Starter" SLR Gift Question
« Reply #32 on: 7 Jun 2016, 12:25 pm »
For the professional zooms, I like to rent them from:
 borrowlenses.com
(you can rent locally in many cities, not sure about Flagstaff though)

Thanks for the tip on renting lenses.  It seems like there should be some good camera shops in Flag, but anymore it may be too hard to compete with online retailers.
FYI - in 15 years the digital camera body you buy today will have been replaced (maybe 2 or 3 times over), but she still will have whatever lenses you buy for a lifetime.

My personal favorite lens is a 50/1.8 that cost me $89 new and has taken more photos for me than any other due to it's simplicity and convenience.  On a DX crop you may want 30mm or 35mm 1.4 or 1.8 instead.

Thirty years from now your daughter will be taking pictures on some 1 billion megapixel camera, but still using the prime lenses you got her this week.

This was my original strategy--get a decent body and 1 or 2 really good lenses.  It seems the most important thing is for her to decide between Nikon and Canon, then I can get her started on her "glass collection".

Glazers camera in Seattle is decent.

Ordering online from B&H or Adorama is fast, tax free, and they also have interesting used lens collections that are WORTH looking at once you know what lenses you want.
They test their lenses, and I have bought many used lenses from B&H with awesome results (they stand behind their stuff too).
I've purchased gear from B&H and have a semi-pro photographer friend that highly recommends them.  Thanks for the lead on Glazer's--for this purchase I'm willing to pay the premium for B&M service.

PeteG

Re: "Not a Starter" SLR Gift Question
« Reply #33 on: 7 Jun 2016, 12:26 pm »
I really like Canon too. The 80D is very nice, played with one and it feels very good.

ACHiPo

Re: "Not a Starter" SLR Gift Question
« Reply #34 on: 7 Jun 2016, 03:34 pm »
I also want to point out that the above 17-55mm 2.8 is a $1500 lens, which may sticker shock the OP. I find the 18-55mm kit lens to be way sharper than I need, especially stopped down to F/8 for landscapes.

I'm trying to figure out if I'm missing something.  The 17-55mm f/2.8 image stabilization Canon lens I come up with when I Google is ~$750.  Is this the right lens, or is there another better version?

JohnR

Re: "Not a Starter" SLR Gift Question
« Reply #35 on: 7 Jun 2016, 03:34 pm »
The bigger, more complex, and heavier a camera system gets, the less likely you are to carry it. It's easy to be seduced by the notion that you need a collection of "glass" to cover every possible situation. It doesn't help you take better photographs. If I were starting from scratch knowing what I know now, I would get a mirrorless camera with a crisp wide-angle (say 21-24 mm EFL) and a macro lens say 90-100 mm EFL. That combination would cover most of the photography enjoyment I've had. Unfortunately, the particular choice there is only something the individual can discover for themselves ;)

The macro lens, by the way, doubles pretty well as a portrait and landscape lens.

You may also want to consider setting her up with some essential accessories, like white balance filters, remote shutter release, and a nice tripod (and they are not cheap). And a good bag (I really like Crumpler).

One advantage of mirrorless is that you can get adapters for lenses from most other non-mirrorless systems. So if you do come across a prize piece of glass in your travels, it can stay with you even if you switch systems.

ACHiPo

Re: "Not a Starter" SLR Gift Question
« Reply #36 on: 7 Jun 2016, 03:58 pm »
The bigger, more complex, and heavier a camera system gets, the less likely you are to carry it. It's easy to be seduced by the notion that you need a collection of "glass" to cover every possible situation. It doesn't help you take better photographs. If I were starting from scratch knowing what I know now, I would get a mirrorless camera with a crisp wide-angle (say 21-24 mm EFL) and a macro lens say 90-100 mm EFL. That combination would cover most of the photography enjoyment I've had. Unfortunately, the particular choice there is only something the individual can discover for themselves ;)

The macro lens, by the way, doubles pretty well as a portrait and landscape lens.

You may also want to consider setting her up with some essential accessories, like white balance filters, remote shutter release, and a nice tripod (and they are not cheap). And a good bag (I really like Crumpler).

One advantage of mirrorless is that you can get adapters for lenses from most other non-mirrorless systems. So if you do come across a prize piece of glass in your travels, it can stay with you even if you switch systems.
John,
Thanks.  Obviously you're happy with the way the mirrorless cameras feel.  Your logic is one of the reasons I decided to buy the G12--highly portable, some tweakability with telephoto rings and filters, etc.  I took some great shots with it when I was in sub-Saharan Africa, although a few times I wished I had the reduced shutter lag of an SLR.
Evan

Odal3

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Re: "Not a Starter" SLR Gift Question
« Reply #37 on: 7 Jun 2016, 04:31 pm »
Other than weight, what are the pro and cons comparing mirrorless with DSLR

xr2

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Re: "Not a Starter" SLR Gift Question
« Reply #38 on: 7 Jun 2016, 04:41 pm »
I went through a very long process of trying to decide on a camera system for myself last year.  I decided to go micro4/3.  I wanted something relatively small and light I could carry around, and there are lot of wonderful lens options.  I love the panasonic 42.5mm f1.7 as it makes a wonderful portrait lens, and it can also focus really closely for nice macro shots without having a dedicated macro lens.

But here are some of the key things I've learned.

Most people buy more camera than they really need.  How much camera you need depends on the pictures you want to take.

If you want to take outdoor pictures in daylight of non-moving subjects, most phones will work just fine.

If you want to take pictures indoors, at great distances, of quickly moving subjects, then you need much better, heavier gear.

I can get away with using fast primes indoors without a flash, and my slower zooms outdoors in good light and I haven't felt a need for better equipment yet.

So it comes down to what kind of things she wants to photograph.  If she wants to travel or walk around and take pictures, micro4/3 is great as it's relatively easy to travel with and you don't need to carry 10 lbs of gear with you everywhere.  But if she wants the ultimate in depth of field or low light performance or fast autofocus, then you need to move up to a full frame camera, but be aware of the weight and costs involved.

thunderbrick

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Re: "Not a Starter" SLR Gift Question
« Reply #39 on: 7 Jun 2016, 04:43 pm »
JohnR is dead right about having/taking too much stuff along.  I own (or have owned) a 300, 400, 600, 800 and 1200mm lenses, Nikkors all, and there are a real PITA.    But when you are ultra serious/obsessed fast/long glass is hard to beat.

A two lens outfit of 17-55 and 70-200 2.8 will take care of almost everything,  Add extension tubes (light, small and cheap) and the 70-200 becomes an incredible macro lens.  A 1.4 or 1.7 tele converter gives her a great wildlife lens.

Tripod?  You bet!!  Start with a smaller Manfrotto and maybe carbon fiber ($$$) when the aluminum becomes an inconvenience.