The Duetta (Duet mod)

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art

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The Duetta (Duet mod)
« on: 13 Nov 2008, 06:24 am »
Yes, it is really going to happen: a modified Duet.

I just sent out the first evaluation unit this afternoon. A few more to follow shortly. We have several different power supplies that we are looking at making, so some guys are going to have to listen to more than one. No, I don't listen to anything that I design, as it is never a good idea for the designer to evaluate it. (We know what it did, and what we expect it to do. So, we let others do that job.)

We are still aiming at making this a $500 mod. If we decide to go with one of the larger supplies, that may be hard to do. Another thing we have decided on is what will be included in the basic offering.

Ok, for $X (whatever "x" will be), this is what we will do:

Low-noise oscillator, powered by its own low-noise regulator inside the unit. Not only will it be separate from the rest of the Duet, it will be fed from a separate pre-regulator inside the remote supply. The remote supply will not only replace the stock SMPS, but will not be interchangeable with it. Or any other power supply. The Duet will have a power cord sticking out of the back, with a connector that will only mate with the supply that we supply with it.

The clock and SPDIF stages will no longer share the same chip. Each will be independent of each other. (They will share the same supply, as that is essential for proper operation, but they will be isolated in that respect.)

The output will be transformer coupled, with a 75 ohm BNC connector. The output return loss of this output will be <-36 dB. (IOW, pretty damn accurate.) The SPDIF will be reclocked to assure low jitter.

And the power supply, as mentioned above.

The Duet will now only work on 44.1 kHz source material. Not knowing enough about the architecture of the unit, I can not say with certainty that it will work with 32 kHz 'Net radio. We have reports that it seems to work ok. Perhaps it is smart enough to figure out the 48 kHz clock is disabled, and somehow resamples to 44 kHz instead. I have no idea. It seems to work, but we do not promise that it will for that application.

Now.............there will be one level of upgrade above this. Probably for an additional $100. This mod is only for those who use the analogue outputs. In order to keep the cost down, this will only be provided for those who actually use those outputs. No sense gouging folks who have no use for it. And frankly, the mod I came up with is a bit of a pain. So. the less folks who want it is fine by us.

Here is what it will entail:

Separate supply for the DAC chip.

Clean clock signal applied directly from the clock, instead of some giant chip. (Which is never good for jitter.)

The post filter will be slightly altered, mostly to add some better parts. And get rid of some others that I feel should not be there (Sorry, Sean!) We do take steps to address the purpose of those parts, so rest assured  that we did not sacrifice one feature for another.

The output caps will not be changed. I know, caps do sound different. But seriously, we have no intention of listening to a bunch of SM caps, only to find out that most of them sound as lousy as the other one. We do not play the "politically correct parts game", and have less desire to find a way to shoe horn a cap that is larger than the case into one of these buggers. Sorry, you have to accept what is in there. We have improved it enough to more than justify the price. If you are the type that loses sleep over what brand of cap that is used, then please, either accept what there is or look elsewhere. We are not going to get involved in that realm.

Ok, that is the good news. Here is the bad news:

You should all be aware that our company is not in the modification business. I will end up doing these on my spare time. (Yes, I can get the hired help to make the PCBs and drill the holes in the supply chassis. But I will have to do the actual job of shoving the mod inside the Duet.) As I have more than enough things to occupy my day, these will be done on a limited basis. IOW, if you request to have your unit done, you will be assigned a number, and contacted when I am ready to proceed. Anyone who sends one to us without being assigned a number or jumps the gun will have their unit sent back. Stock condition, and COD.

Ok, got it? I'm serious.

OK, maybe not the best business model to use, but again, we are not in that business. So, "we" will only proceed as my time allows. Sorry, but I don't want to have my other functions bogged down by this type of work. I will provide it as a service, but I hope that you all understand that this has to be at my discretion.

Ok, here is the preliminary view of what to expect. With one of the "small" supplies that we are thinking about




OK..........questions............?

(I sure hope that I don't live to regret doing this.)

Pat

drmike

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Re: The Duetta (Duet mod)
« Reply #1 on: 13 Nov 2008, 07:26 pm »
hello pat,
how do i get on the list?
thanks,
drmike

art

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Re: The Duetta (Duet mod)
« Reply #2 on: 13 Nov 2008, 07:44 pm »
Uh, guess you get to be first. Ask here.......e-mail.....whatever.

Pat

drmike

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Re: The Duetta (Duet mod)
« Reply #3 on: 13 Nov 2008, 08:11 pm »
you have a pm.
thanks,
drmike

tonyptony

Re: The Duetta (Duet mod)
« Reply #4 on: 15 Nov 2008, 12:20 am »
Pat, will you allow the evaluators to post their thoughts during this prototype testing phase? I can appreciate that they may be commenting on something that may change slightly once you decide on the exact supply you will use, but I'm hoping and suspecting your fundamentals are down close enough to where hearing from the testers may give the rest of us something to think about.

art

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Re: The Duetta (Duet mod)
« Reply #5 on: 15 Nov 2008, 04:56 pm »
It is not a question of whether I will permit them, but rather a question of will they even say. We have always attracted the type of customer that likes our stuff, but would rather listen to it than talk about it.

Translation: our customers tend to be as unconventional as we are. Guess that is to be expected. Wouldn't seem right any other way.

Pat

ajayrav

Re: The Duetta (Duet mod)
« Reply #6 on: 17 Nov 2008, 05:41 pm »
Hello Pat,

You have mail.... :D

Ajay

jhm731

Re: The Duetta (Duet mod)
« Reply #7 on: 20 Nov 2008, 07:25 am »
It has happened!

I've had Pat's prototype Duetta and PSU PV1 running for the past two days.

The Duet receiver is connected to my digital processor using Pat's U-byte cable (5Meters),
and the PSU is connected directly to an AC outlet with a generic power cord.

Having heard his SB3 and previous Duet upgrades, this is a major step forward in SQ.

Everything has an enhanced smoothness, with images emerging out of a totally silent background.

I'm looking forward to testing the other versions of his linear PSUs and the analog outputs.

Aloha,

Dan


mr_bill

Re: The Duetta (Duet mod)
« Reply #8 on: 20 Nov 2008, 04:30 pm »
Keep us posted Dan,
I'm almost ready to add my name to ART's list!
BB

art

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Re: The Duetta (Duet mod)
« Reply #9 on: 20 Nov 2008, 06:33 pm »
In a nutshell, that is the improvement to be expected once the issue of clock jitter is addressed. Takes more than just adding a separate 3-terminal regulator to fix that problem. Which is all 99.99% of all designers know how to do.

Pat

tonyptony

Re: The Duetta (Duet mod)
« Reply #10 on: 1 Dec 2008, 02:37 pm »
It has happened!

I've had Pat's prototype Duetta and PSU PV1 running for the past two days.

The Duet receiver is connected to my digital processor using Pat's U-byte cable (5Meters),
and the PSU is connected directly to an AC outlet with a generic power cord.

Having heard his SB3 and previous Duet upgrades, this is a major step forward in SQ.

Everything has an enhanced smoothness, with images emerging out of a totally silent background.

I'm looking forward to testing the other versions of his linear PSUs and the analog outputs.

Aloha,

Dan



Dan, any updates?

Pat, how are the design elements coming along?

art

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Re: The Duetta (Duet mod)
« Reply #11 on: 1 Dec 2008, 05:47 pm »
I have a better idea what the supply will be. Unfortunately, it will need to be what I was hoping it wouldn't. Nothing wrong with the less expensive ones, just that the more expensive ones are a tad better.

We are not going to make 2 or 3 versions, so only the expensive one is going to survive. So, next step is to see if it needs to be tweaked any.

(Basically, it is going to be the low voltage supply from our amps. Yeah, the amps that I am still dragging my feet on the upgrades. Those amps.......)

Translation: we already know that they work. Been using that style of supply for many years. Just tried to find a way to see if we could "Muntz" it a bit. Turns out we can't. Time to "un-Muntz" it.

Pat

art

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Re: The Duetta (Duet mod)
« Reply #12 on: 21 Dec 2008, 12:21 am »
For those of you who might be interested in the analogue output mod........

What are you thoughts on putting better RCA jacks in? Remember the analogue mod will be additional. So, those of you who only use it for a transport won't have to pay for something that you will not ever use.

Anyway, if you are paying extra to begin with, is it worth it to pony up a few more $ for better RCAs?

Pat

tonyptony

Re: The Duetta (Duet mod)
« Reply #13 on: 21 Dec 2008, 12:25 am »
My vote is yes. What did you have in mind?

arthurs

Re: The Duetta (Duet mod)
« Reply #14 on: 21 Dec 2008, 04:00 am »
For those of you who might be interested in the analogue output mod........

What are you thoughts on putting better RCA jacks in? Remember the analogue mod will be additional. So, those of you who only use it for a transport won't have to pay for something that you will not ever use.

Anyway, if you are paying extra to begin with, is it worth it to pony up a few more $ for better RCAs?

Pat

You know my opinion on it Pat.... (Hey, how about them Eagles???!!!)

art

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Re: The Duetta (Duet mod)
« Reply #15 on: 21 Dec 2008, 08:20 pm »
My vote is yes. What did you have in mind?

Right now, we have some Tiffany, or Tiffany-style made by Sound Connections, sitting around the shop. (They have all been dumped into the same bin these days.) It will take enlarging the hole a bit to make them fit. The only problem will be how far back into the chassis they go. Hope they don't bump into any of the obscure parts that I thought needed to go.

O/T, yes the Eagles won. One side of the extended family rubbing it in the nose of others in their family. Rivals, you see. I was told what side I had to take, although I really didn't care. Not close enough to them to care about their internal feuds.

I had already been through that stuff in my family! And I usually got the butt end.

Pat

tonyptony

Re: The Duetta (Duet mod)
« Reply #16 on: 21 Dec 2008, 11:43 pm »
Right now, we have some Tiffany, or Tiffany-style made by Sound Connections, sitting around the shop. (They have all been dumped into the same bin these days.) It will take enlarging the hole a bit to make them fit. The only problem will be how far back into the chassis they go. Hope they don't bump into any of the obscure parts that I thought needed to go.

If it works and the additional cost is within reason then I think it should be okay. But I am curious - every choice you make is based on sound engineering assessment, Pat. I'd be interested in knowing why you feel the existing jacks should be replaced.

art

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Re: The Duetta (Duet mod)
« Reply #17 on: 22 Dec 2008, 02:31 am »
Uh.........the Duet sells for $150, or less. I may make Arthur listen to his with the stock jacks first, and then send it back for further mutilation.

Sound like a plan?

Pat

tonyptony

Re: The Duetta (Duet mod)
« Reply #18 on: 22 Dec 2008, 01:05 pm »
      :thumb:

tonyptony

Re: The Duetta (Duet mod)
« Reply #19 on: 1 Jan 2009, 07:24 pm »
Well Pat. Now that the new year has arrived (Happy New Year :D ), how do things look for closing in on the last bits of the mod?