A fun speaker.

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Early B.

Re: A fun speaker.
« Reply #20 on: 10 May 2021, 12:34 am »
Still looking at Wayne’s 4pi if nothing turns up here.

These look interesting, too:  https://www.jtrspeakers.com/jtr-noesis-212htr




corndog71

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Re: A fun speaker.
« Reply #21 on: 10 May 2021, 12:46 am »
These look interesting, too:  https://www.jtrspeakers.com/jtr-noesis-212htr

I heard those a few years ago at Axpona.  Wasn’t impressed.

Doublej

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Speaker Challenged

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Re: A fun speaker.
« Reply #23 on: 10 May 2021, 05:48 am »
I am actually working on some new products using Radian drivers that will be sold through Radian and GR Research that are right along those lines.

C'mon Danny you can't leave it at that enticing little piece of information. That's audio teasing. :)  :lol:

CaptainBill

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Re: A fun speaker.
« Reply #24 on: 12 May 2021, 03:00 pm »
These look interesting, too:  https://www.jtrspeakers.com/jtr-noesis-212htr

Thanks.  I saw those on the home theater sites.  I don’t like the difference in distance of the compression driver and the woofer.     They also seem a bit overpriced with those drivers and that cabinet.  No clue if it sounds nice for 2 channel audio.

Liteagilis

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Re: A fun speaker.
« Reply #25 on: 12 May 2021, 03:26 pm »
I'd be extremely interested in a speaker that is less on direction and more on 'fun'.  I think the problem i run into often is that so many speakers are designed to image and I get why and all, but the majority of my listening is while I'm just home, walking around, working at our counter (or on the couch) etc.  The only space I have that is really in front of my speakers is the dining room table and I am not often (ever) critically listening there.  So I'm in on clear sound.  I'm in on loud.  I'm in on quality drivers.  But i don't need pinpoint imaging.  So this sounds great.  Image attached to give an idea of my space




AKLegal

Re: A fun speaker.
« Reply #26 on: 12 May 2021, 04:27 pm »
Hopefully, these are on Danny's radar.  https://radianaudio.com/collections/coaxials-neo/products/5312neo-12-neo-coaxial-speaker?variant=20538615234622

An upgraded Super V is about the only thing that might get me to budge from the Super 7.

Danny Richie

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Re: A fun speaker.
« Reply #27 on: 12 May 2021, 04:56 pm »
I've been racking my brain trying to figure out what woofer or woofers to stick under them, but I have not found a good answer yet.

The drawbacks to high sensitivity woofers are limited bass extension, limited X-Max, and the box size may get out of hand for a pair of large woofers. They need to be an easy 8 ohm load and match the 98db or so sensitivity of the upper driver.

But then if someone has a bass heaviness in their room there is not much they can do about it.

I am really leaning towards adding a pair of servo subs under them all in sealed boxes. Now sensitivity is not a problem, matching output levels is not a problem, and they will play flat to 20Hz.

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: A fun speaker.
« Reply #28 on: 12 May 2021, 05:06 pm »
Why not the X-Omni?  :P

Otherwise, it shouldn't be to difficult to design a fun, 3 way box speaker that looks kinda retro, with wide baffles & all that, but still sounds good, it just wont excell at imaging or soundstage.

The real trick tho will be keeping costs down, cuz i mean you could basically build a pair that is basically an oversized & sealed XLS with a custom crossover and a sealed servo sub all in one box, but thats still not exactly "cheap.." :lol:
Tho I'm sure there's some decent & affordable 10" or 12" woofers that can take over the 200Hz to 30-40Hz range.

Early B.

Re: A fun speaker.
« Reply #29 on: 12 May 2021, 05:17 pm »
I've been racking my brain trying to figure out what woofer or woofers to stick under them, but I have not found a good answer yet.

The drawbacks to high sensitivity woofers are limited bass extension, limited X-Max, and the box size may get out of hand for a pair of large woofers. They need to be an easy 8 ohm load and match the 98db or so sensitivity of the upper driver.

But then if someone has a bass heaviness in their room there is not much they can do about it.

I am really leaning towards adding a pair of servo subs under them all in sealed boxes. Now sensitivity is not a problem, matching output levels is not a problem, and they will play flat to 20Hz.

I don't know about the others, but my expectation was that you would design a "fun speaker" that mated with a pair of servo subs, both as a large monitor and a floor stander just as you've done with your OB options. That way, you can use high sensitivity woofers with limited low extension. For the monitor option, those who already own servo subs can buy or build the speakers. Plus, it offers an upgrade path to those who don't have servo subs -- they can add them later when their budget permits and choose sealed or OB.

You can also add a reference model with beryllium tweeters and upgraded crossovers.     

Chewbacca

Re: A fun speaker.
« Reply #30 on: 12 May 2021, 05:20 pm »
I'm not here to advertise other speakers, but reading this I can't help but think of the Tekton Lore's I had a few years back... Wow, HUGE sound coming out of those! Could take a ton of power and just ate it all up. Definitely not your typical "hifi" speaker that had good imaging, depth, soundstage, or that velvety sound you can get out of a more refined speaker. But man, they created this massive wall of sound! Super fun and dynamic speaker to listen to. I certainly do miss them here and there... Definitely miss them for HT!! I'm sure if Danny took a similar design philosophy he'd sell TONS of them!... I'd probably buy a pair myself for a second system/HT only system years down the line :thumb:

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: A fun speaker.
« Reply #31 on: 12 May 2021, 07:39 pm »
My dad's speaker is a 3-way design somewhat similar to those from the 70s. They aren't great, esp with how far apart the tweeter and mids are, they have serious cancellation issues once your head gets below the midwoofer. And the box comes completely unbraced and its really noticable esp at higher volumes.. (even after bracing the cabinet, its still really chesty when turned up)



But swap out the drivers, for Danny's tweeter, the 4" midwoofer for a M165 in a sealed compartment. Then in the bottom, use a 8"-10" woofer for everything below 200Hz.

I need to redo my measurements, but here's how it measures stock, before I braced it. (And include vertical off-axis measurements, as well)


When I get home, I'll work on a couple quick 3D design ideas I have around this idea, and throw it in my speaker design thread.
Probably one like this Technics mess and one that's a little smaller with the mid & Tweeter assembly turned 90° that can be made left & right handed.

corndog71

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Re: A fun speaker.
« Reply #32 on: 12 May 2021, 08:01 pm »
Hobbs has the idea.  Something like that but Danny approved.  Get those drivers closer together.  Maybe a 2nd bass driver in the back. 

Chewbacca

Re: A fun speaker.
« Reply #33 on: 12 May 2021, 08:07 pm »
@ Hobbsmeerkat

It's funny you mention Technic speakers, my dad also has an old pair of those. From a quick google search it's the SB-7000. When I was explaining the NX-Oticas to him and that the tweeter is aligned with the voice coil of the woofers, he brought up the Technic's and how that they did that (or attempted something of the sort) for those speakers as well. He still loves those things! Man, they have to be tired by now though... I thought it was cool that they actually showed the frequency response literally on top of the speaker itself. Probably not something too many manufacturers do :lol: Can't remember if it looked like a good response or not though.




Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: A fun speaker.
« Reply #34 on: 12 May 2021, 08:32 pm »
Oh yeah, I've seen a few of those time-aligned designs in catalogues when trying to find info for my dad's model. (which there's very little cuz it seems to be a budget model only produced for Circuit City in the early-mid 90s).

Its definitely an interesting concept tho I'm sure the reflections off the top baffle are a problem, esp for the mids

The crossover for this speaker is basically woofer playing full range, a varister that feeds into a cap for the mid, then a cap & resistor for the tweeter..


Shives

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Re: A fun speaker.
« Reply #35 on: 12 May 2021, 10:39 pm »
So badly want a single servo sub for my place. Finding one right now, that’s a trick. (Hint hint, anyone? Lol)

Party speakers with 2 servo subs? Holy shit, that’s not a party speaker, that’s kicked up to half concert party speaker.

I was think like Hobbs said above, a 3 way, again... it’s not going to be the high end of the audio level.. but a fun speaker.. that’s not too cost prohibitive. I think of two of the 12 from the list on GR and think that’s 1000 there.

Again, Hobbs.. I feel what your putting down, not to say I would not like two bad ass speaker with built in servo subs.. yes!

I bet it’s hard for Danny to think on that level with what he’s used to hearing. It’s is almost saying to a Vette  owner.. Hey, try this Camaro, twice the weight and less power. Maybe not the looks.. or to a high end food guy, hey Gordon Ramsay, here Mc Donald’s make it a feast. Lolol.

I’ll stop now!

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: A fun speaker.
« Reply #36 on: 12 May 2021, 11:44 pm »
LOL
Nah man, it's more like being used to driving a modern Corvette, then going back & driving a Vette from the mid 60s. 8)
It's cool and familiar, but it definitely lacks the features that the modern models have.

My idea is more of a "resto-mod". It'll never be just like a modern speaker, but it helps bring old things up to speed, with those classic looks, but many of the benefits of better & more modern components under the hood.

I could see the 8" servo subs being a solid option as well tbh, and being sealed, they'll have plenty of oomf for most rooms, with 12" subs being an option for those with larger rooms.. or possibly even a pair of 8" or 12" subs. But that's kinda beyond the scope of what I'm thinking.. :p

Jonathon Janusz

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Re: A fun speaker.
« Reply #37 on: 14 May 2021, 01:36 am »
Saw this thread this morning and thought I'd dig up a little ancient history.  I had these built...wow...a decade ago!

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=93720.0

For reference, I've also spent an evening with arguably the best LS9s ever built with about a hundred grand worth of tubes feeding them.  There are things that each design does (did?) better than the other, but I wouldn't hesitate to say these traded punches with the LS9s.

If you're into that sort of thing, these literally cracked the plaster of my walls.

 :thumb:

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: A fun speaker.
« Reply #38 on: 14 May 2021, 02:38 am »
Saw this thread this morning and thought I'd dig up a little ancient history.  I had these built...wow...a decade ago!

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=93720.0

For reference, I've also spent an evening with arguably the best LS9s ever built with about a hundred grand worth of tubes feeding them.  There are things that each design does (did?) better than the other, but I wouldn't hesitate to say these traded punches with the LS9s.

If you're into that sort of thing, these literally cracked the plaster of my walls.

 :thumb:

That's a rad design right there! i'm sure it sounds every bit as incredible as it looks!

here's a quick couple designs i put together over the last couple days:





Uses the basic XLS drivers in a sealed upper box with either a 12" or 8" sealed servo sub below it.
12" version is ~25" tall 8" is about 21". The airspace is a little tight, tbh.. the 12" is ~1.2 cubic ft. the 8" is ~1.0Cu-Ft.



Space for the amp is pretty tight in the 8" version, so its rotated to fit cleanly.

Folsom

Re: A fun speaker.
« Reply #39 on: 14 May 2021, 12:19 pm »
Bi polar passive bass... much easier to get the numbers you want. Very fun. Is the idea LGK mid with T26SG or GR-T3?


Three options that can get you a solid 95db, maybe a bit more with room gain.

ALPHA-8A
PRO 8FE200
FAITAL PRO 8FE300