AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Owner's Circles => Selah Audio Owners => Topic started by: rbfletch on 19 Aug 2011, 09:53 pm
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Any news/progress?
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Any news/progress?
Great results as expected! The second woofer adds a little more sensitivity as well as extra dynamics and impact. The design was for a customer who builds his own cabinets so I don't have any pictures yet. I can provide quotes for assembled systems or kits.
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Rick, with the increased cabinet volume of the Tempesta Extreme, would you consider using the larger C90 Accuton 5'' midrange driver, or stick with the 3'' driver, or would it be ''optional''?
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Rick, with the increased cabinet volume of the Tempesta Extreme, would you consider using the larger C90 Accuton 5'' midrange driver, or stick with the 3'' driver, or would it be ''optional''?
It can easily be done either way.
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$4K/pr. is possible!
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$4k.....black(piano/ash/matte?), what would they look like? Dimensions? Thx
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$4k.....black(piano/ash/matte?), what would they look like? Dimensions? Thx
Two modules stacked with the same cabinet size / style as the Tempesta. The top would look just like the Tempesta and the bottom a single woofer and port. 45-46" tall, 9" wide, 14 3/4" deep. Gloss Black, Maple, and Red Cherry (other finishes available for upcharge).
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Is there an advantage to using the dual cabinets instead of something like the Madisound MD-38 cabinet?
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Is there an advantage to using the dual cabinets instead of something like the Madisound MD-38 cabinet?
The MD-38 is smaller in volume so it cannot be used with these woofers. I wanted to offer an alternative for customers with a smaller budget. For $4K there's nothing else that can touch it, ID or brick and mortar... :thumb:
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Would it look like 2 cabinets with a a strip of wood holding them together...or one just stacked on top of the other...or would it look like a single integrated cabinet with 44" smooth sides/backs/fronts? Would their be 2 identical grills or one continuous one? Just 2 connection posts necessary? Sounds very nice! Thanks. :D
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Would it look like 2 cabinets with a a strip of wood holding them together...or one just stacked on top of the other...or would it look like a single integrated cabinet with 44" smooth sides/backs/fronts? Would their be 2 identical grills or one continuous one? Just 2 connection posts necessary? Sounds very nice! Thanks. :D
Stacked with short rubber feet underneath the top cabinet and identical grills. One set of connections for the lower cabinet and a short jumper to the upper cabinet.
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I may have assumed something not true....would it basically be 2 tempestas with the bottom one not having the tweeter and mid-range? Or are the cabinets different? Would the home audition option include Keeping/returning the bottom cabinet and jumper? Thanks.
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I may have assumed something not true....would it basically be 2 tempestas with the bottom one not having the tweeter and mid-range? Or are the cabinets different? Would the home audition option include Keeping/returning the bottom cabinet and jumper? Thanks.
Same cabinets but just with the addition of one woofer. Both sections would integrate together so it's not possible to separate the two cabinets. The addition of the second woofer changes the entire crossover.
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Rick, would it be possible to have a pair of single-cabinet Tempesta floorstanders (not the extreme version) utilizing the Accuton C90 5'' mid? They would be non-ported, as I would augment them with a pair of TC12 subs, a Magnifico center channel, and a pair of stand-mounted Tempestas as surrounds for an absolute killer home theater/music system in my 12' x 25' x7' basement room. :thumb:
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Rick, would it be possible to have a pair of single-cabinet Tempesta floorstanders (not the extreme version) utilizing the Accuton C90 5'' mid? They would be non-ported, as I would augment them with a pair of TC12 subs, a Magnifico center channel, and a pair of stand-mounted Tempestas as surrounds for an absolute killer home theater/music system in my 12' x 25' x7' basement room. :thumb:
Let's do it! :thumb:
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Wow, that system would be an overwhelming HT experience. I'm listening to/watching Avatar now on my Tempestas, and even given the limitations of 2 channels, I think it sounds more immersive than the Imax system I first saw the movie on. Every tiny detail of this massive soundscape is right where it should be, as clear as day, with full dynamics, macro and micro.
If you can swing it, I doubt it could be bettered in any significant way.
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Yes Jonbee, that's the trick, isn't it? Swinging it, I mean. I've been putting my home theater/multi-channel music system together for about 5 years, one piece at a time. First purchase was a NIB Pioneer Elite 56txi AVR on ebay for 1/3 the retail price to use as a pre/pro. No HDMI so no Blu-ray, but I wanted the Firewire feature for ease of multi-channel connectivity with my next purchase, a demo Denon 5910 CI universal transport that upconverts to near Blu-ray quality, also picked up on ebay at 1\3 retail. Next I picked up a 9/10 Meridian 558 5x200 amp on Audiogon for, you guessed it, 1/3 retail. Latest purchase was a Furman IT Reference 20i power conditioner (weighs 80 lbs!!) for, yep, 1/3 retail, to plug everything into. All these components, still in their boxes years later, on shelves in the basement, waiting . . . Patience is a virtue, but this is killing me! When it comes to speakers however, I think buying new is the way to go, and for the longest time I was on the fence, going back and forth between Salk and Selah. One day I was driving down one of the main thoroughfares in Annandale, Virginia where I live, and I happened to glance to my right where I saw a sign above the door of a local business: Selah Hair Town. It was a beauty salon! Perhaps not the most logical way to come to a decision, but it works for me. Well, that and Rick's stellar designs and customer service made it a pretty easy choice. I have a couple of options financially that would allow me to make this happen now--take it out of an IRA and suffer the ''substantial penalty for early withdrawal'' or borrow it from myself by taking out a loan from my Thrift Savings Plan, either of which will require concerted, creative efforts to obtain the permission of my No. 1--significant other--old lady, you get the picture. I'm almost 56, my hearing isn't getting any better, and patience is wearing thin. Stay tuned. 8)
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I am also totally committed to buying quality cheap. These days you can buy tons of big name high end gear for well over half off.
However, in the search that led me to the Tempestas, I looked at dozens of used candidates, and came to the conclusion that I couldn't do better with any used speaker for the $4k I put into the Ts. As far as I'm concerned, you need to go well north of $10k at retail to even have a shot at better sound in the range they cover. Also, by working wih Rick I could get the finish I wanted and get advice on some some minor customizations done per my tastes after I took delivery, which doesn't happen with used gear.
After 43 years at this I've found these are the types of things that make for real long term satisfaction.
I nearly pulled the trigger on Salk H2TLs, but I wanted the quality of the Soundscapes, which were too large and pricey. The Ts give me that quality of sound, minus the very bottom. I use a James EMB1000 sub when I want the bottom, and it works very well for its' size.
If I felt I could find a good pair of Tempestas used I would have waited, but since Rick is not a mass producer, I think it could be a very long time before such a thing turns up used. If a good used pair does turn up, I just might buy them for one of my other systems anyway, but I'm not counting on it.
I met a very wealthy woman many years ago who drove an older Rolls Royce. She told me it was one of the least costly cars she'd ever had, because it was so satisfying to her that she had kept it for a very long time rather than trading around.
If you can't do it all at once, start with the mains and build it in pieces.
I noted that you wanted to go with the larger Accuton mid. I find the smaller one to be very exceptional, and integrates perfectly with the ribbon and Illuminator. I'd be afraid to mess with this design, having heard how well the combination sounds now. I'm sure Rick has an opinion on this.
Have fun!
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Rick, would it be possible to have a pair of single-cabinet Tempesta floorstanders (not the extreme version) utilizing the Accuton C90 5'' mid? They would be non-ported, as I would augment them with a pair of TC12 subs, a Magnifico center channel, and a pair of stand-mounted Tempestas as surrounds for an absolute killer home theater/music system in my 12' x 25' x7' basement room. :thumb:
Working now on a design with dual 7" Illuminators, Accuton C90 mid, and the Illuminator tweeter. This is a customer request (floorstanders plus matching center channel). The RAAL ribbon could easily be integrated into this design. :thumb:
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Now yer talkin, pardner. :)
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Our next new design to ship will be a Tempesta Extreme for a California customer. :thumb:
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Rick, is there any advantage by going with a bigger accuton (5") to do the midrange duties and leave the SS for bass duties. I believe the 2in. accuton on the tempesta doesnt really go low so some of the midrange is produced by the SS. What i thinking is, use the smaller version of the curved cabinets (7.5 in width) for the highs and 5in mid, stacked on top of the regular tempesta cabinet which will house the the woofer only. Could there be any advantage witht the slimmer profile for the highs and mid section as compare to the Tempesta?
Thanks
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I have the Tempesta with the 2" Accuton, and I'll give you my take on this. I think Rick made the right choice on this design. The Illuminator has excellent lower midrange definition, linearity and speed. I'm not sure that the 5" Accuton can best this woofer in the 500-900hz. range, which is all you gain by going to the 5". The handoff from the Illuminator to the Accuton is inaudible; that tells the story. What the 2" Accuton offers is superior upper midrange and lower treble speed and accuracy (ringing on the 2" is far beyond the crossover point, at an amazing 19khz., vs. ~4-5khz for the 5"!) . That allows it to seemlessly blend with the very fast RAAL. The human ear is most sensitive to this range, and the Tempesta with the 2" totally nails it. I'd hate to lose that as part of the tradeoff.
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I would love to hear the Tempesta Extreme! I live in Wine Country and would happy to supply some of our finest to celebrate the occasion.
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Rick, is there any advantage by going with a bigger accuton (5") to do the midrange duties and leave the SS for bass duties. I believe the 2in. accuton on the tempesta doesnt really go low so some of the midrange is produced by the SS. What i thinking is, use the smaller version of the curved cabinets (7.5 in width) for the highs and 5in mid, stacked on top of the regular tempesta cabinet which will house the the woofer only. Could there be any advantage witht the slimmer profile for the highs and mid section as compare to the Tempesta?
Thanks
Yes it could be done but as Jon pointed out little if anything to be gained and the combination as is leaves nothing else to be desired.
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I think I would consider the 5" Accuton mid if the woofer was larger, bringing problems into the midrange, such as a 10 or 12", like Salk uses. The 7 inch Illuminator has a great lower midrange, so by taking advantage of it the problems with taming ragged upper range response due to ringing at the top of the midrange passband, which is a very common and thorny problem with mids like the 5" Accuton, simply doesn't exist with the 2" Accuton. The polar response at the top end of the 2" driver is also wider and a better match for the RAAL. All of this is borne out by hearing the Tempestas.
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I would love to hear the Tempesta Extreme! I live in Wine Country and would happy to supply some of our finest to celebrate the occasion.
I'll let you know when they ship. :thumb:
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Hello Jonbee, happy New Year and thank for posting back.
I have no doubt that the drivers in the tempesta works in harmony and it is best for the tempesta application. Different drivers for different appplications thats why Jim salk uses. But it was not my intention to have this, similar to Jim desing. First, my idea is two use two cabinets, one for the high and mid, and one for the bass. The accuton 5 in. extend high enough to work with the Raal 70-10. Jim uses 70-20. Im sure the SS have great upper ends to work with the 2 in. accuton, but you do realize that the cone material are different, so the end result would probably sound different. In addition, i thought that by using a slimmer cabinet for the highs and midl helps with diffraction, thats why i came up with the two cabinet idea that Rick also uses in his desings. The 2in. accuton works better with the tempesta becuase it does not require additional comparment for the MID. With the the 5 in., it will then need to work with a compartment fo the mid and im not sure if those PE cabinet have enough volume to leave for the SS woofer to be preperty tunbed.
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By the way Rick, there is no ino about the MA1 and tre supremo, Will you add those infor laterr on your site?
Thanks
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By the way Rick, there is no ino about the MA1 and tre supremo, Will you add those infor laterr on your site?
Thanks
Yes - in the process of adding quite a few things.
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Shipping out today to California... :thumb:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=57234)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=57236)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=57235)
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Beautiful! The veneer matching from upper to lower cab is very nice. Kudos Rick.
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Those look incredible :o!!
Rick,
do they come with grill and what is the additional cost for the bottom section?
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Those look incredible :o!!
Rick,
do they come with grill and what is the additional cost for the bottom section?
Grills are standard on all of our speakers (this pair has magnetics under the surface). This is a totally new design - not just a matter of adding a bottom section. As pictured the cost is $6,000/pr. including shipping to the mainland USA.
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Another knockout, Rick. I hope the owner is pleased. That Pau Ferro veneer really looks great with the black drivers. On my pair it actually adds to the illusion of sonically invisible speakers.
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What would the cost be for a black pair?
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Is that still 3 way or 3.5 way?
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Another knockout, Rick. I hope the owner is pleased. That Pau Ferro veneer really looks great with the black drivers. On my pair it actually adds to the illusion of sonically invisible speakers.
Actually this pair and another pair of the Tempestas (being built now) were requested in Pau Ferro after they saw your pair. :thumb:
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What would the cost be for a black pair?
$4,300/pr. w/shipping to the mainland USA.
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Nice job rick. Would this be offered in kit form,if so how much?
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Nice job rick. Would this be offered in kit form,if so how much?
$3,150/pr. including shipping to the mainland USA (cabinets and damping material not included).
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Today I was asked if it's possible to incorporate the upper section of the Salk Soundscape and combine it with the 7" Illuminator in a dual cabinet design like this. With a mid/ tweeter top cabinet and one 7" in the bottom cabinet the cost (including shipping to the mainland USA) would be $4,000/pr. for our standard finishes.
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Today I was asked if it's possible to incorporate the upper section of the Salk Soundscape and combine it with the 7" Illuminator in a dual cabinet design like this. With a mid/ tweeter top cabinet and one 7" in the bottom cabinet the cost (including shipping to the mainland USA) would be $4,000/pr. for our standard finishes.
I brought this idea earlier in this post, but you said there was nothing to be desired from that set up, but now you are offering it? The only thing i did not mention was the use of the raal 70-20 but as you also said , depending on application, the 70-10 have its own advantage.
So what top cabinet are you using for the top section?
Actually is there any other woofer that can be replaced for a higher sensitivity? Both acutton and seas excel have high DB over the the SS iluminatoir, but i guess they dont play as deep.
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What speakers do you currently have? The pair before them? Just trying to see what your frame of reference is so I can answer your questions within that perspective.
I brought this idea earlier in this post, but you said there was nothing to be desired from that set up, but now you are offering it? The only thing i did not mention was the use of the raal 70-20 but as you also said , depending on application, the 70-10 have its own advantage.
So what top cabinet are you using for the top section?
Actually is there any other woofer that can be replaced for a higher sensitivity? Both acutton and seas excel have high DB over the the SS iluminatoir, but i guess they dont play as deep.
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What speakers do you currently have? The pair before them? Just trying to see what your frame of reference is so I can answer your questions within that perspective.
Rick, for reference, here is my ealier post:
"Rick, is there any advantage by going with a bigger accuton (5") to do the midrange duties and leave the SS for bass duties. I believe the 2in. accuton on the tempesta doesnt really go low so some of the midrange is produced by the SS. What i thinking is, use the smaller version of the curved cabinets (7.5 in width) for the highs and 5in mid, stacked on top of the regular tempesta cabinet which will house the the woofer only. Could there be any advantage witht the slimmer profile for the highs and mid section as compare to the Tempesta?
Thanks"
I currently have Songtower dome version.
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I mentioned this since I received a request to quote it. I'm still perfectly happy with the Tempesta and Tempesta Extreme. It's all a matter of what you want in terms of tradeoffs. The top cabinet is a smaller version of the Tempesta cabinet.
As far as sensitivity in the woofer the driver manufacturer specs can be misleading because there is no set standard for this. Some pick the level at 1K which can be quite different than the average over the driver's usual operating range. There's not a large difference between those that you mentioned and it is true that there can be a tradeoff between sensitivity and bass extension. I use the Illuminator for several reasons and it's better for this application than the Seas or Accuton woofers.
I brought this idea earlier in this post, but you said there was nothing to be desired from that set up, but now you are offering it? The only thing i did not mention was the use of the raal 70-20 but as you also said , depending on application, the 70-10 have its own advantage.
So what top cabinet are you using for the top section?
Actually is there any other woofer that can be replaced for a higher sensitivity? Both acutton and seas excel have high DB over the the SS iluminatoir, but i guess they dont play as deep.
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The 5" will go maybe an octave lower but it cannot move as much air in that region as the 7". The 7.5" width cabinet places the tweeter too low when the 22" high cabinet is used as a base. The width isn't really an issue and it's a common misconception that a smaller baffle width yields better imaging.
Rick, for reference, here is my ealier post:
"Rick, is there any advantage by going with a bigger accuton (5") to do the midrange duties and leave the SS for bass duties. I believe the 2in. accuton on the tempesta doesnt really go low so some of the midrange is produced by the SS. What i thinking is, use the smaller version of the curved cabinets (7.5 in width) for the highs and 5in mid, stacked on top of the regular tempesta cabinet which will house the the woofer only. Could there be any advantage witht the slimmer profile for the highs and mid section as compare to the Tempesta?
Thanks"
I currently have Songtower dome version.
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Hello Everyone,
The request earlier about the Salk SoundScape mid and tweet was made by me.
Here's my current logic behind it.
The 5 inch accuton must be used with the RAAL 70-20R to minimize ringing, the RAAL 70-20 allows for a lower XO and therefore helps the accuton remain in the area that it can shine. The reason the Tempests use the RAAL 70-10 and the Accuton 2 inch is for proper xo and to prevent ringing, which by the way looks like an amazing build.
I really like the Scanspeak illuminator, I've been looking at the 7" or 8" in a separate sealed cabinet while trying to maintain a nice xo region from the accuton to the woofer. These will also be used with a subwoofer LMS5400 18 inch.
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Hello Everyone,
The request earlier about the Salk SoundScape mid and tweet was made by me.
Here's my current logic behind it.
The 5 inch accuton must be used with the RAAL 70-20R to minimize ringing, the RAAL 70-20 allows for a lower XO and therefore helps the accuton remain in the area that it can shine. The reason the Tempests use the RAAL 70-10 and the Accuton 2 inch is for proper xo and to prevent ringing, which by the way looks like an amazing build.
I really like the Scanspeak illuminator, I've been looking at the 7" or 8" in a separate sealed cabinet while trying to maintain a nice xo region from the accuton to the woofer. These will also be used with a subwoofer LMS5400 18 inch.
I've been thinking a bit more about this, the raal 70-10d and smaller accuton may be yet a better combo to control diffraction and better freq integration. Still researching, the larger accuton with the 70-20 build could allow a larger woofer for the bottom end, perhaps a scanspeak revelator 10in?
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The 5" will go maybe an octave lower but it cannot move as much air in that region as the 7". The 7.5" width cabinet places the tweeter too low when the 22" high cabinet is used as a base. The width isn't really an issue and it's a common misconception that a smaller baffle width yields better imaging.
Rick,
it looks like design like this (box sitting on box) opens up other desings without the need for custom built cabinets. Do you think that there are trade off with theses types of desings or is one piece full cabinet still preferable?
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Actually the reason I use the 2" dome mid in the Tempesta is that it allows for a 3-way monitor in a realistic cabinet size. The RC3R and Tanzanite designs that came before it have been popular and I wanted to kick it up a notch with the best drivers available. The C90 needs a subenclosure which increases the cabinet size too much for a single cabinet in my opinion. At that point it's better to go to a 2-piece or floorstanding cabinet.
Hello Everyone,
The request earlier about the Salk SoundScape mid and tweet was made by me.
Here's my current logic behind it.
The 5 inch accuton must be used with the RAAL 70-20R to minimize ringing, the RAAL 70-20 allows for a lower XO and therefore helps the accuton remain in the area that it can shine. The reason the Tempests use the RAAL 70-10 and the Accuton 2 inch is for proper xo and to prevent ringing, which by the way looks like an amazing build.
I really like the Scanspeak illuminator, I've been looking at the 7" or 8" in a separate sealed cabinet while trying to maintain a nice xo region from the accuton to the woofer. These will also be used with a subwoofer LMS5400 18 inch.
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Yes, the C90 does allow you to use a larger woofer if desired.
I've been thinking a bit more about this, the raal 70-10d and smaller accuton may be yet a better combo to control diffraction and better freq integration. Still researching, the larger accuton with the 70-20 build could allow a larger woofer for the bottom end, perhaps a scanspeak revelator 10in?
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Thanks again Rick! Do you think using a 10" ScanSpeak with the C90 would be a wise choice vs the 7" Illuminator that you are using? I worry that i could sacrifice a bit of "speed" with a larger woofer.
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Since you're adding a subwoofer I would go with dual 7's on each side.
Thanks again Rick! Do you think using a 10" ScanSpeak with the C90 would be a wise choice vs the 7" Illuminator that you are using? I worry that i could sacrifice a bit of "speed" with a larger woofer.
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No negatives as long as the cabinet volumes are right for each driver and the tweeter height is correct.
Rick,
it looks like design like this (box sitting on box) opens up other desings without the need for custom built cabinets. Do you think that there are trade off with theses types of desings or is one piece full cabinet still preferable?
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Since you're adding a subwoofer I would go with dual 7's on each side.
Rick,
do you mean the upper section will have the raal and the five inch accuton, then the bottom section will two illuminator? Would the woofer be too far from the to have good integration ?
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Rick,
do you mean the upper section will have the raal and the five inch accuton, then the bottom section will two illuminator? Would the woofer be too far from the to have good integration ?
Yes, that driver combination. The crossover point is low enough that the wavelengths are long compared to the driver distance so integration isn't a problem.
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Rick,
What are you thoughts between the Tre Supremo and the Tempesta/Tempesta Xtreme? Does the Tempesta win out in clarity with the Tre Supremo providing better dynamics and further reach into the low end? Would you take a Tempesta + good sub over the Tre Supremo?
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I heard a Selah speaker with this Illuminator mid at the Wisconsin GTG :thumb: Incredible, really opened things up in comparison to the Veritas I brought with me. The Veritas sounded great, and the bass they produced in a room that large was impressive, but that mid seemed to add a little something special to the mix. I could not stay to hear the accuton mid in action, but I was very, very impressed with the paper illuminator mid-range. In retrospect I wished I stayed to hear it, but at the time I had a spousal deadline to meet :|
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I heard a Selah speaker with this Illuminator mid at the Wisconsin GTG :thumb: Incredible, really opened things up in comparison to the Veritas I brought with me. The Veritas sounded great, and the bass they produced in a room that large was impressive, but that mid seemed to add a little something special to the mix. I could not stay to hear the accuton mid in action, but I was very, very impressed with the paper illuminator mid-range. In retrospect I wished I stayed to hear it, but at the time I had a spousal deadline to meet :|
You mean the midrange sounded better with the 4" paper cone illuminator midrange over the larger 7" woofer aluminum illuminator of the verita?
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Rick,
What are you thoughts between the Tre Supremo and the Tempesta/Tempesta Xtreme? Does the Tempesta win out in clarity with the Tre Supremo providing better dynamics and further reach into the low end? Would you take a Tempesta + good sub over the Tre Supremo?
It really depends on your personal preferences and system needs. What speakers do you currently have? Front end equipment?
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Rick, I was really just curious what you thought of the two designs. I'm running a diy design, fountek ribbon, 4" tang band mid (open baffle for the mid) and 7" dayton woofers. Just using a Pioneer avr right now. If one was looking for absolute accuracy which one is the best?
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I've never compared them side-by-side but could easily live with either one. The Tre Supremo is maybe a tad more forgiving but still very detailed. My personal preference would the Tempesta with a pair of our TC12 or TC15 powered subs. I like the advantage of having some active control because my room (like most others) has some bass peaks to be contained. In my opinion any speaker company going for state-of-the-art with a design should include active subs - even better is some DSP (DEQX,etc).
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Rick, thanks for the info. You seem to have so many designs out there (all of which are great i'm sure) it's just interesting to know what the differences are. You aren't planning on attending the Axpona in jacksonville this year are you?
You think there would be much advantage of building a Tempesta that is fully active?
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Shipping out today to California... :thumb:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=57234)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=57236)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=57235)
these look sweet! but... ...wouldn't it be preferable to have the mid & tweet in a smaller cabinet, and have the two woofers combined in a lower taller cabinet?
and, what about putting 3 or even 4 woofers in the lower cabinet?
thanks,
doug s.
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these look sweet! but... ...wouldn't it be preferable to have the mid & tweet in a smaller cabinet, and have the two woofers combined in a lower taller cabinet?
and, what about putting 3 or even 4 woofers in the lower cabinet? It would be possible to design a different cabinet combination - we do that kind of customizing all of the time.
thanks,
doug s.
3-4 woofers won't work in this design.
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3-4 woofers won't work in this design.
thanks, but, what about my first question; the one that i was actually most interested in. :lol:
wouldn't it be preferable to have the mid & tweet in a smaller cabinet, and have the two woofers combined in a lower taller cabinet?
thanks,
doug s.
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thanks, but, what about my first question; the one that i was actually most interested in. :lol:
wouldn't it be preferable to have the mid & tweet in a smaller cabinet, and have the two woofers combined in a lower taller cabinet?
thanks,
doug s.
Yes, it could be done that way but there's not an advantage to having a smaller mid/tweet cabinet.
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What would you think about using modular approach to cut down cost of a dipole? Sealed Illuminators in the bottom portion, then a simple custom portion for the top tweet and mid?
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What would you think about using modular approach to cut down cost of a dipole? Sealed Illuminators in the bottom portion, then a simple custom portion for the top tweet and mid?
Sure it could be done; however, the width of the upper section is critical to the range where the mid can operate as a dipole. It's also possible to do the mid with an open back but I prefer a dipole over that. With an open back the subenclosure will have a resonance which partially defeats the purpose of what you're trying to achieve.
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Shipping out today to California... :thumb:
Beautiful cabinet work Rick. I thought the Tempesta (and by extension the Extreme) would be a bass reflex speaker. I dont see the port in any of the pictures. Is the Extreme sealed box?
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Beautiful cabinet work Rick. I thought the Tempesta (and by extension the Extreme) would be a bass reflex speaker. I dont see the port in any of the pictures. Is the Extreme sealed box?
Ported with rear ports.
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I think that I'm a cheap bastard when it comes to audio equipment. I wanted new speakers, but everything I heard and lusted after was much more than I wanted to spend. I listen to all sorts of music: Jazz, Rock, Pop, Acoustic, Bluegrass & Electronic, so I needed a set of speakers that were very neutral and wouldn't force me to listen to "what sounds best". In my never ending search to get the best bang for the buck, I came to Rick's web site and this forum and ended up buying a set of Tempestra Extremes from him.
<blah blah blah>My listening room is small, about 13' x 15'. Its acoustically treated, with a balance of panels and open wall space which keeps a bit of life in the sound. I'd been living with the same speakers for the last six years and grew used to their peculiarities in my environment. I optimzed their placement in my small room for semi-nearfield listening. Their 3d imaging in the near field setup was quite good and reflections and dropouts in my room were kept to a minimum with this setup. My current system has a VPI Classic, Benz Ruby 3 cartridge and Simaudio LP5.3 phono amp for my analog section. My CD/Blu-Ray/DVD setup is an Oppo BDP-95 with Modright 2 channel tube output stage upgrades. Digital is handled by a homebuilt silent music server with a SOTA usb card feeding an Ayre QB-9 DAC. Power is provided by an Ayre Ax-7E integrated Amp all of which now runs into the Selah Audio Tempesta Extreme speakers. Power and Interconnect cables are a mix of Shunyata, Transparent, Silent Source and Black Sand. </blah blah blah>
Once I decided that I wanted to proceed with the speakers, Rick estimated a delivery date and was spot on with his timing. I ordered the Tempestra extremes in the standard Cherry veneer in order to save a few dollars. I must say that the finish, while not exotic, is of a very high quality. Rick lives near me and he delivered the speakers and helped me set them up. It was quite an enjoyable evening chatting with Rick while we hooked up the speakers - I think we talked much more than we listened.
The first thing that you will notice about the Tempestra Extremes is that the cabling for them is different than most other speakers you've ever seen. I have bi-wire speaker cables coming from my integrated amp. The speaker cable splits between to the top connectors on the upper unit and the lower connectors on the bottom unit. It was a very tight fit and took Rick and I over a half hour to connect. An additional set of jumper cables is required between the two speakers. Rick provided some zip wire for the jumper cables, which I'll be upgrading as soon as possible. I may also replace the speaker cables as there is a bit of stress due to the size and angle that the spades need to connect. Now that I have new speakers, I need to obsess about somthing different! So, word to the warry, the fit of your speaker cabling and matching with the jumpers is somthing to take into consideration if you are interested in these speakers.
I've only been listening to them for about a week now and I probably should listen a lot longer before I post, but I just couldn't wait to share. One of the things that you'll first notice is that the decays are lingering and natural, giving a fuller texture to the music, much more ambiance that you would expect. You really get an feel for where the music is being played, you can just picture what the music hall looks like. The tonality is smooth and liquid like, no peakiness or edginess to the sound - Its what I seem to always hear in REALLY expensive speakers. The upper midrange is exquisite - female vocals are killer. The speakers have good bass extension, the depth of the bass was about what I expected for this size speaker, with a slight bit of warmth in the mid bass but not bloomy or boomy. The soundstage is wide, with the location of instruments being less precise but more solid than my previous speakers. Listening fatigue is a thing of the past. All in all it's a very seductive sound.
I've got to replace the zip cable, play with the foamey things on the tweeters, figure out if I want the grills, etc. Once I've had time to play around with these things and had some more time to listen and get more developed opinons on thier sound I'll be posting again.
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I think that I'm a cheap bastard when it comes to audio equipment...My current system has a VPI Classic, Benz Ruby 3 cartridge and Simaudio LP5.3 phono amp for my analog section...a SOTA usb card feeding an Ayre QB-9 DAC...cables are a mix of Shunyata, Transparent, Silent Source and Black Sand.
So, word to the warry, the fit of your speaker cabling and matching with the jumpers is somthing to take into consideration if you are interested in these speakers..
Wow you have all that equipment and you call yourself cheap? Wonder what you'd call me. :oops:
I intended to drive the Tempesta-Exreme using an AVR (the baby Arcam) and Atlas Ascent 3.5 for the bass http://www.atlascables.com/ascent-3.5.htm and Ascent 2.0 for the mid/hf
http://www.atlascables.com/ascent-2.0.html
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I've only been listening to them for about a week now and I probably should listen a lot longer before I post, but I just couldn't wait to share. One of the things that you'll first notice is that the decays are lingering and natural, giving a fuller texture to the music, much more ambiance that you would expect. You really get an feel for where the music is being played, you can just picture what the music hall looks like. The tonality is smooth and liquid like, no peakiness or edginess to the sound - Its what I seem to always hear in REALLY expensive speakers. The upper midrange is exquisite - female vocals are killer. The speakers have good bass extension, the depth of the bass was about what I expected for this size speaker, with a slight bit of warmth in the mid bass but not bloomy or boomy. The soundstage is wide, with the location of instruments being less precise but more solid than my previous speakers. Listening fatigue is a thing of the past. All in all it's a very seductive sound.
Congratulations! I'm a bit envious of the "Extreme" config. Very cool.
Your impressions mirror mine almost exactly. Your comment about these sounding lke very expensive speakers is right on the mark.
Your comment on the upper mids is spot on - among the stellar qualities of this speaker I think it is this aspect that most sets these apart from others- Rick's choice of the 2" Accuton handing off to the RAAL is a masterstroke. It seems most other designers use the 5" Accuton to allow for a lower crossover to a larger woofer, but the ear is particularly sensitive to the range the 2 incher covers, and it nails it. The smoothness and clarity in that range reminds me more of a planar than a dynamic speaker.
For me, they got notably better with time. I noticed that at about 80 hours playing time they really opened up, and continued to sound more open and relaxed past the 200 hour mark. Interestingly, Accuton recommends 300 hours breakin for their drivers.
They really show changes in the other pieces of the system. Things like moving the same power cords around in the system are audible- not in your face, but clear. I've been able to very effectively adjust the sound using cabling and such. For me I'm finally satisfied with the fine tuning, and I've had my Ts for one full year. No sign of "upgrade-itis" at all. I feel really lucky to have this level of sound and craftsmanship for the price paid.
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Krusty,
Congrats on the new purchase, i'm sure you won't be disappointed by Rick's work. Perhaps I missed it in your post but what were your original speakers? Any more comparisons between the old and new?
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The old speakers were B&W 703s. They were fine speakers and served me well for many years. What drove me to upgrade was the B&W's treble, which I gather is typical for B&W speakers. It really gave music an attention grabbing sparkle and sheen, but after about 1/2 to 1 hour you became very fatigued listening to them. They were also very demanding about where you positioned them - 1/8" toe-in/toe-out made a difference. I could live with the criticality of positioning, but only one listener could have a "sweet spot" . Subsequently I've setup the Tempesta Extremes with less toe in, which probably accounts for the larger and less defined soundstage but a much more forgiving sweet spot. Much more fussing about speaker positioning is in order! The finish of the Tempesta Extremes is nice (stock cherry cabinet) but the B&W's is first rate. I can't hear veneer and I sometimes close my eyes when I'm listening, so that's not so important to me.
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krusty, you may wanna try this, for retaining a defined soundstage, but still having a larger sweetspot - try toeing the speakers in so much that they cross a couple feet in front of the listening position. you get a defined soundstage when dead-center, but as you move of to the sides, the speaker furthest from you is pointing more directly at you than the closest speaker, which helps keep a decent soundstage when off-center...
doug s.
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Rick's choice of the 2" Accuton handing off to the RAAL is a masterstroke. It seems most other designers use the 5" Accuton to allow for a lower crossover to a larger woofer, but the ear is particularly sensitive to the range the 2 incher covers, and it nails it.
I think most other manufactuers fall into the belief that if you are looking at a 3 way the middle speaker must cover 5-6 octaves with a bass unit and hf unit covering the extreme ends. They end up with a mid that covers something like 200-3000Hz (4 octaves). This is diffcult as the driver has to be linear over the entire range.
What Rick realised is that the Illuminator 7" covers the lower mids better than most midranges so why not use the best driver for the job. Rick does something similar with the center speaker that uses the Morel dome as a mid. The Morel dome and the Accuton 2" mid are normally not crossed below 600-700Hz (more often 700-800Hz). So insted of 4 octaves (this really means that the driver has to be somewhat linear for 6 octaves - an octave above and below the fundamental crossover frequency) the 2" dome covers 2-2.5 octaves and it is much easier to have a driver that is linear over 4 octaves that 6 octaves.
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$4,300/pr. w/shipping to the mainland USA.
I've been considering the Tempesta, but the Extreme seems like the way to go. For about $600/pr more than the Tempesta with good quality stands, it seems like a no-brainer. Still has the same footprint.
With the additional woofer, is it any more sensitive than the regular Tempesta? Are there any down-sides to this type of configuration vs the stand-mount?
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I've been considering the Tempesta, but the Extreme seems like the way to go. For about $600/pr more than the Tempesta with good quality stands, it seems like a no-brainer. Still has the same footprint.
With the additional woofer, is it any more sensitive than the regular Tempesta? Are there any down-sides to this type of configuration vs the stand-mount?
Sensitivity is a little higher with the dual woofers. No tradeoffs really.
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I've been considering the Tempesta, but the Extreme seems like the way to go. For about $600/pr more than the Tempesta with good quality stands, it seems like a no-brainer. Still has the same footprint.
I really love my Ts with a sub, but if the Extreme existed when I ordered mine I'd give them serious consideration. It's hard to see any downside from this approach.
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Is it possible to make the extreme in a sealed configuration for use with a sub? If so, do you end up with a more sensitive speaker than the single woofer sealed version?
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I really love my Ts with a sub, but if the Extreme existed when I ordered mine I'd give them serious consideration. It's hard to see any downside from this approach.
I guess my concern is how it will look and the stability of having two stacked cabinets that are not attached. I don't want to get stuck with a wobbly stack that isn't well integrated.
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Is it possible to make the extreme in a sealed configuration for use with a sub? If so, do you end up with a more sensitive speaker than the single woofer sealed version?
Yes, it is possible and increases the sensitivity a little.
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Working now on a design with dual 7" Illuminators, Accuton C90 mid, and the Illuminator tweeter. This is a customer request (floorstanders plus matching center channel). The RAAL ribbon could easily be integrated into this design. :thumb:
Thanks for the reply. Any news or pictures of these? I've also been thinking about a high resolution set of L/C/R speakers for music/movies designed for use with a sub. The system I have in mind is similar to the Tre Supremo CC and the above project. It would be a set of 3 sealed speakers all with Illuminator drivers: Be tweeter + 4.5" mid + 7" woofer x2. The L & R would be floor standing in a relatively small cabinet that is tall & narrow, but not very deep.
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Thanks for the reply. Any news or pictures of these? I've also been thinking about a high resolution set of L/C/R speakers for music/movies designed for use with a sub. The system I have in mind is similar to the Tre Supremo CC and the above project. It would be a set of 3 sealed speakers all with Illuminator drivers: Be tweeter + 4.5" mid + 7" woofer x2. The L & R would be floor standing in a relatively small cabinet that is tall & narrow, but not very deep.
That design was for a kit so I'll see if the builder has any pictures. The Be tweeter is great; in fact, very close to the sound of the RAAL ribbon.
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That design was for a kit so I'll see if the builder has any pictures. The Be tweeter is great; in fact, very close to the sound of the RAAL ribbon.
Kind of funny this topic came up.....I just finished one speaker and took pictures of it last night.
Still need to varnish the second tower and veneer the center. I'll post more pics when they're complete but here's the pics I took last night.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=62924)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=62925)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=62926)
Took longer than I thought but we've just had another baby so time is hard to come by with a 2 year old and a 1 month old.
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Beautiful! I hope you report on how they sound when you get them up and running.
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Nice build! Want to build me 3 with Raals?
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Kind of funny this topic came up.....I just finished one speaker and took pictures of it last night.
Still need to varnish the second tower and veneer the center. I'll post more pics when they're complete but here's the pics I took last night.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=62924)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=62925)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=62926)
Took longer than I thought but we've just had another baby so time is hard to come by with a 2 year old and a 1 month old.
Nice work! Even more impressive considering your young family... :thumb:
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Those look amazing. Thank you for posting the photos & congratulations on the 1 month old!
Kind of funny this topic came up.....I just finished one speaker and took pictures of it last night.
Still need to varnish the second tower and veneer the center. I'll post more pics when they're complete but here's the pics I took last night.
...
Took longer than I thought but we've just had another baby so time is hard to come by with a 2 year old and a 1 month old.
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Wow, those are amazing looking speakers! From the beveled edges on the baffle, to the world class
drivers to the fit 'n finish. Please give a full review when finished-
pawsman
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Yes, it is possible and increases the sensitivity a little.
Hi Rick,
Would you recommend I go sealed (since I would have a 12" Subwoofer for the bass) too?
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Hi Rick,
Would you recommend I go sealed (since I would have a 12" Subwoofer for the bass) too?
The sensitivity isn't tied to whether it's sealed or ported (if that's what you're asking?). The sub is easier to integrate with sealed mains if you plan on a 70-80hz crossover point.
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The sensitivity isn't tied to whether it's sealed or ported (if that's what you're asking?). The sub is easier to integrate with sealed mains if you plan on a 70-80hz crossover point.
80Hz is what I was considering. Most AVRs have flexibility in choosing the crossover point. The AVRs I am looking at are the NAD 757, Arcam 400 etc. Any recomended AVR? I intend to use 4 channels of the AVR to drive the Extremes (many AVRs allow for their rear power amplifiers to be re-routed to the front).
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They look really sharp ...
Is there any reason that you are opting for a receiver instead of a quality 2 channel amp or integrated ... used market is full of good quality reasonably priced amps ...
What's your budget?
PS: Congrats on your new baby :)
Sunil
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Is there any reason that you are opting for a receiver instead of a quality 2 channel amp or integrated ... used market is full of good quality reasonably priced amps ... What's your budget?
PS: Congrats on your new baby :)
Sunil,
The primary reason is that this system is going to be very compact and the space (18" wide x 10" high) we had allowed for only a AVR or a stereo amp not both (nor any 2 amp combo like a Pre-Processor and Power amp combo). My wife would use this system more than me since I travel a lot and she needs something that she can turn on with one switch and is simple to operate.
Additonally this system will sometimes be used for home theater which is why there is a compact 12" subwoofer. Since movies would be only 30% of the use and the speakers will be less than 7 feet apart we decided to not have a dedicated center speaker (phantom center) besides our decor did not have the space for the center. Rear channels would be covered by a pair of S6 (if I remember right).
The budget for the AVR would be about $2000. The NAD 757, Pioneer LX75/SC63, etc all fit into the budget but I can stretch a bit to get the Arcam 400 if it is a significant step above the likes of the Pioneer LX75/85, NAD 757, Yamaha A2010/3010, Onkyo 1009/3009, etc..
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I'm loving this integrated. It's selling for $2000 most places.
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/integrated-amplifiers/integrated-amplifiers-reviews/harman-kardon-hk-990-stereo-integrated-amplifier-with-digital-room-correction-and-dual-subwoofer-bass-management-part-i.html (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/integrated-amplifiers/integrated-amplifiers-reviews/harman-kardon-hk-990-stereo-integrated-amplifier-with-digital-room-correction-and-dual-subwoofer-bass-management-part-i.html)
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I'm loving this integrated. It's selling for $2000 most places.
Cant get that here. What you think about the NAD 375BEE or Yamaha A-S1000?
For another application (speakers are Peridot Excel, Excel center and some smaller SEAS Prestige rears) I was thinking of using a AVR for the processing and rear channels and a power amp for the front and center. Does a combo using a stereo integrated (for the front channels) and a AVR for the center and rear make more sense?