[cacophony777]

Quite a few people took one look at the Denon CD player and Squeezebox and decided the room was not worth spending any time in.  Perceptions, it appears, are extremely important in the higher-end market.  So we'll have to re-examine our approach to the gear we use at shows and at least have 24/96 gear (and perhaps a high-end turntable as well).

That's frustrating. Do these types of people want to see an expensive source they're familiar with, or will they be equally satisfied with something expensive that they've never heard of?

If it's the latter, Jim can start a non-profit under the name Ecostica, and charge $15k for his "audiophile" transport (he can use this transport at audio shows). If anybody wants to buy it, all profit will go to charity.

[drab]

C'mon guys...the AVA gear is good and an even better value, but let's not pretend there isn't better out there. 

George

Better looking maybe. Or maybe different.

Jim, if you decide to "upgrade" electronics and add a turntable don't be suprised when they scoff at your power supply, interconnects, speaker wire "they're just laying there on the floor!", and any number of magical necessities. If you become like them you become them.

[Stercom]

I think its reasonable to use the same equipment (including the same sources) at shows that you designed them with. If I remember correctly the design, especially the midrange, on the SoundScapes was changed a number of times based on extended listening sessions using AVA equipment and digital sources. 

[jbtrio]

I agree with Zybar. Jim your source is very important. Whatever you lose upstream your speakers will never bring back. Just my 2 cents!

 That is your flagship product and should be showcased with higher end gear. AVA gear is very good for the money, but there are better sounding components out there.

Joe

[K Shep]

All things considered, I thought the show went quite well.  We received very many extremely positive comments and were very often told our room was among the very best sounding at the show.  We had a chance to meet old friends and make quite a few new ones.  Now we'll just have to concentrate on RMAF and up our game a little.

- Jim

It was great to meet you Jim.  The Salk room was one of the best sounding at the show.  See you at RMAF.

[Sparks]

I simply will not go into business screwing stupid rich people just because they are rich and stupid.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

Sure Frank, you can say that because you know that Dave Wilson already beat you to it. 

[Nuance]

Sure Frank, you can say that because you know that Dave Wilson already beat you to it. 

HAHA!

[charmerci]

Jim,

Why not just get a high end transport, some non-outrageously priced cables (for a while Frank liked Kimber Kable,) a decent TT and be done with it?

No sense in going overboard here.

[Brian Kingsbury]

I had never heard any of Jim and Dennis's speakers before the show but I've been secretely reading this forum for some time.  I absolutely loved the SoundScapes fed through the AVA gear and Jim was a pleasure to meet.   If I were in the market to buy a speaker, regardless of cost, I wouldn't think twice about choosing them.

The sound was among the top 3 of the show - easily beating out speakers costing FAR more - and the finish quality was easily the finest I've ever seen on a loudspeaker.  I went into the Salk room over and over for the two days of the show because it was one of my favorite systems.  As a general rule, I never look or ask about prices on any systems I listen to until I have had a chance to soak the sound in for a while.  It's hard to remain objective when you start looking at prices.   Sometimes when you hear prices after hearing a system you just have to laugh to yourself and know that price doesn't guarantee performance. With the SoundScapes, I was definitely laughing alot more when I went and heard speakers that cost 10x as much but didn't impress me.

I wish the same could be said about the Denon CD player.  Jim played a CD for me that I'm pretty familiar with and it sounded just plain bad.  Going back to the squeezebox, the terrific sound returned.  I'm definitely not into source gear - anything costing over $2,000-$3,000 is a ripoff as far as I'm concerned - but there was a noticable decrease in sound quality when switching to the Denon.  I know people will assume I'm basing my judgement on the fact I expected it to sound bad but I literally never even looked at the source equipment being used while listening to the speakers.  I only looked at the player after the CD started and there was a signifcant amount of grunge to the sound.  I didnt even know he was using a Squeezebox until I asked about 10 minutes into the demo. Anyway, count this as a vote for getting an upgraded transport for the next show.  There were a LOT of people carrying vinyl around as well and having a turntable will certainly attract more people to the room.

Other than that minor quibble, I was thoroughly impressed with the Salk room.  I've already raved about it to anyone that would listen to me at the show and to my friends.

[funkmonkey]

I think it would be interesting to have three set-ups at a show:

1) inexpensive AVR & mid line CD player or squeezebox (no mods) driving base model SongTowers, or SongBirds;

2) AVA gear (amps, DAC, and pre) driving HT2-TL's

3) some fancy high-end gear driving the SoundScapes. 

Three different scales to suit most everybody's wallet    
If someone wanted to hear something spendy driving Jim's intro speakers it could be done, as well as any other combo...

I'm guessing there would be a lot of people returning to the room to see if they could hear the difference when gear was swapped around.  And I have no doubt that all three would sound good.

just my 2 cents,

PS- cacophony777- great pics by the way!

[HoosierInOhio]

I think it would be interesting to have three set-ups at a show:

1) inexpensive AVR & mid line CD player or squeezebox (no mods) driving base model SongTowers, or SongBirds;

2) AVA gear (amps, DAC, and pre) driving HT2-TL's

3) some fancy high-end gear driving the SoundScapes. 

Three different scales to suit most everybody's wallet    
If someone wanted to hear something spendy driving Jim's intro speakers it could be done, as well as any other combo...

I'm guessing there would be a lot of people returning to the room to see if they could hear the difference when gear was swapped around.  And I have no doubt that all three would sound good.

just my 2 cents,

PS- cacophony777- great pics by the way!

110% agree with this.  Maybe a something like an Oppo or Cambridge CD as they are a pretty good value/price players

[Sparks]

I think it would be interesting to have three set-ups at a show:

1) inexpensive AVR & mid line CD player or squeezebox (no mods) driving base model SongTowers, or SongBirds;

2) AVA gear (amps, DAC, and pre) driving HT2-TL's

3) some fancy high-end gear driving the SoundScapes. 

Three different scales to suit most everybody's wallet    
If someone wanted to hear something spendy driving Jim's intro speakers it could be done, as well as any other combo...

I'm guessing there would be a lot of people returning to the room to see if they could hear the difference when gear was swapped around.  And I have no doubt that all three would sound good.

just my 2 cents,

Sure Funk.
As long you're going to haul all that gear around for Jim, throw in a reel-to-reel and a turntable too.
No prob! 

[funkmonkey]

Sure Funk.
As long you're going to haul all that gear around for Jim, throw in a reel-to-reel and a turntable too.
No prob! 

   well, yeah...  I guess that is something to consider... but I gotta believe that there are some companies out there that would be willing to ship some gear on their dime to be demoed with Salk.

[Nuance]

I think it would be interesting to have three set-ups at a show:

1) inexpensive AVR & mid line CD player or squeezebox (no mods) driving base model SongTowers, or SongBirds;

2) AVA gear (amps, DAC, and pre) driving HT2-TL's

3) some fancy high-end gear driving the SoundScapes. 

Three different scales to suit most everybody's wallet    
If someone wanted to hear something spendy driving Jim's intro speakers it could be done, as well as any other combo...

I'm guessing there would be a lot of people returning to the room to see if they could hear the difference when gear was swapped around.  And I have no doubt that all three would sound good.

just my 2 cents,

PS- cacophony777- great pics by the way!

Fantastic idea!  I'd love to hear the SoundsScapes power by dual solid state monoblocks and a nice tube preamplifier.  Audio Research, AVA or Conrad Johnson for preamps and Parasound JC1's for amps come to mind.

[jsalk]

Well, on thing to keep in mind is that, at RMAF, we will be in a small room and a slightly larger toom.  The larger room will bet the soundscapes.  Perhaps the smaller room will too.

In the past, we have tended to take quite a few pairs of speakers.  And the room quickly fills up.  It is difficult to stage more than one pair, much less three or four.  So I am thinking of the SongTowers and perhaps the HT2-TL's.  And that is probably more than we probably should take.

I need some advice.  As far as a higher rez player, do you think the Oppo BD83 would be OK?

- Jim

[OgOgilby]

I wish the same could be said about the Denon CD player.  Jim played a CD for me that I'm pretty familiar with and it sounded just plain bad.  Going back to the squeezebox, the terrific sound returned.  I'm definitely not into source gear - anything costing over $2,000-$3,000 is a ripoff as far as I'm concerned - but there was a noticable decrease in sound quality when switching to the Denon.

Welcome to AC Brian.

Was the Denon's output going straight to the preamp or to a an external DAC?

Was the Squeezebox output going straight to the preamp or to an external DAC?

[Paul K.]

If you're trying to impress snobby audiophools, you might as well get the Lexicon clone of that Oppo (or maybe it's Oppo's SE version) as it has the exact same guts! 
Paul

Edit: In case anyone is interested, in the March issue of Stereophile, on pages 43-46, Kalman Rubinson reviews both the Oppo BDP-83SE ($899) and Lexicon's repackage of it, the BD-30 ($3499).  He heard virtually no distinguishble differences and upon removing their covers, saw identical circuit boards with identical components.  Lexicon's primary reason for why they felt entirely justified with a selling price ~4 times that of the Oppo was, "..what differentiates our player from the Oppo and other off-the-shelf products is the integration, support and warranty".  Hmmm, I guess sounding or performing better isn't important?
Paul

Well, on thing to keep in mind is that, at RMAF, we will be in a small room and a slightly larger toom.  The larger room will bet the soundscapes.  Perhaps the smaller room will too.

In the past, we have tended to take quite a few pairs of speakers.  And the room quickly fills up.  It is difficult to stage more than one pair, much less three or four.  So I am thinking of the SongTowers and perhaps the HT2-TL's.  And that is probably more than we probably should take.

I need some advice.  As far as a higher rez player, do you think the Oppo BD83 would be OK?

- Jim

[zybar]

Well, on thing to keep in mind is that, at RMAF, we will be in a small room and a slightly larger toom.  The larger room will bet the soundscapes.  Perhaps the smaller room will too.

In the past, we have tended to take quite a few pairs of speakers.  And the room quickly fills up.  It is difficult to stage more than one pair, much less three or four.  So I am thinking of the SongTowers and perhaps the HT2-TL's.  And that is probably more than we probably should take.

I need some advice.  As far as a higher rez player, do you think the Oppo BD83 would be OK?

- Jim

Jim,

Why not contact Dan Wright and try to pick up a Modwright Transporter?

This produces excellent sonics and would be plug and play for your setup since you are already used to using a SqueezeBox.

While there are better digital front ends, I believe this would be a big step forward for you.

George

[zybar]

If you're trying to impress snobby audiophools, you might as well get the Lexicon clone of that Oppo (or maybe it's Oppo's SE version) as it has the exact same guts! 
Paul

Paul,

In terms of impressing the snobby audiophools...Jim has somewhat already lost that battle regardless of how the Sound Scapes sound.  The fact that the Sound Scapes might outperform more expensive speakers won't necessarily sway most of the audiophools from going with the well established name brand.  That said, why not use gear that allows the Sound Scapes to show off all that they are capable of? 

George

[avahifi]

First of all, we pay half the cost of the show displays we share with Jim Salk and neither of us are paying to display other brands of equipment. Do you want me to ask Jim to allow me to bring in some "really good" B&W Diamond  speakers or similar to display against the Salks? My clients are not whining that we are not using good enough speakers at our show displays.

Neither Jim or I are into audiosnob marketing.  The Soundscapes were designed using AVA electronics, there is no good reason to expect them to perform better on grossly overpriced audio salon brands of electronics.

Regarding using a "hi end" CD transport (audiophlake nonsense of course), a multi purpose transport would not hurt anything, but it would be slower to load than a purpose designed CD player only, kind of a pain for demo purposes.

The Songtowers and AVA Ultravalve got about as good a review from TAS as any products ever has, both designed without magic capacitors, wonder wires, mung shu dots, welding cable wires, or any other overpriced voodoo that suckers keep throwing their money away on.

The point is we are both trying to demonstrate to show buyers is that it is not necessary to blow a fortune to have the very best audio there is.  It appears that it is very difficult to get that message out to as many as we would like to.

We will keep on trying.

Best regards,

Frank Van Alstine