Squeezebox

floresjc · « **on:** 7 Jul 2009, 08:10 am »

Anyone here use a squeezebox with a Mac or PC? If I'm not mistaken, you install a program on your computer and it simply streams from your computer, it doesn't actually hold the files itself. If I'm not mistaken, someone said Jim demos hooked up to a squeezebox, but I have to wonder if he brings a computer along or has some nifty setup.

I'm trying to figure out the best way to get my songs across the room into an Insight preamp. Can you run a squeezebox off of iTunes or do you have to use their separate music server?

bpape · « **Reply #1 on:** 7 Jul 2009, 11:24 am »

You're correct. The PC or Mac holds the music library and just streams over a network (wired or wireless) to the SqueezeBox. The SqueezeBox connects to your preamp just like any other audio player device - either via analog or digital outputs.

Yes. You can use iTunes as the repository. The server side of the SB software is the interface for the player. Or, you can use the display on the SB directly. You can have playlists, browse by artist, song, album, year, genre, etc.

There isn't a need for a dedicated box. You can share your library on a PC/Mac that serves other purposes. The only thing you need is a good amount of disk space to store your music. FLAC or WAV are the recommended storage formats. Not sure if iTunes will recognize FLAC (lossless compression) though.

Bryan

zybar · « **Reply #2 on:** 7 Jul 2009, 11:28 am »

Quote from: bpape on 7 Jul 2009, 11:24 am

You're correct. The PC or Mac holds the music library and just streams over a network (wired or wireless) to the SqueezeBox. The SqueezeBox connects to your preamp just like any other audio player device - either via analog or digital outputs.

Yes. You can use iTunes as the repository. The server side of the SB software is the interface for the player. Or, you can use the display on the SB directly. You can have playlists, browse by artist, song, album, year, genre, etc.

There isn't a need for a dedicated box. You can share your library on a PC/Mac that serves other purposes. The only thing you need is a good amount of disk space to store your music. FLAC or WAV are the recommended storage formats. Not sure if iTunes will recognize FLAC (lossless compression) though.

Bryan

ITunes does not support FLAC.

Probably better to ask questions over at the Discless Circle.

There are tons of SB and Transporter owners here on AC.

George

floresjc · « **Reply #3 on:** 7 Jul 2009, 01:13 pm »

Bryan -

So if I use iTunes as the repository, then i can set up my ratings and playlists in that, and SB will then import/monitor those for its playlists, saving me the hassle of maintaining two databases? By interface for the player, do you mean I can have the SB software open, and select songs to play directly from my computer without having to use the remote? Sometimes that would be more useful, like when I'm using my computer. If so, what you are saying is awesome.

iTunes can be tricked into playing FLAC, and I did it once with a drag and drop converter. Basically what it does is wrap the flac file in a Quicktime friendly video shell, and play it back. You can't use tags that way though. I use a program called XLD, which is a free download, that lets you convert losslessly from FLAC to Apple Lossless, or any other format really. So I can download FLAC files (which are prevalent on the net) and play them in iTunes as ALACs (which almost no one uploads). So basically I have an apple lossless library that I can convert into flac if need be.

bpape · « **Reply #4 on:** 7 Jul 2009, 01:25 pm »

Yes. You can select songs/playlists directly from the PC interface.

As for the FLAC 'wrapper', I doubt that the SB server side would handle that very well.

Bryan

mathgeek97 · « **Reply #5 on:** 7 Jul 2009, 01:38 pm »

You can stay completely in the iTunes universe using the optical out on a Apple Airport Express. You'll need a mini to optical plug, plus an optical to coaxial converter. This will let you keep everything in Apple Lossless format and use an iPhone/iPod Touch as a remote.
-Kevin

smbrown · « **Reply #6 on:** 7 Jul 2009, 01:46 pm »

If you use iTunes, isn't the Apple "lossless" format similar to FlAC (e.g. lossless)?

bpape · « **Reply #7 on:** 7 Jul 2009, 01:48 pm »

It's similar - but I don't believe it can be streamed as compressed and then decoded at the player. FLAC can. This is really only an issue with variable wireless or other places where network bandwidth may become an issue.

Bryan

sedah · « **Reply #8 on:** 7 Jul 2009, 01:55 pm »

You can convert FLAC to ALAC (apple lossless compression). A quick google search yielded a couple of gems... This thread has some good info: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f15/flac-alac-289153/ Basically use Max is you're on a Mac, or use dbPowerAmp on a PC.

jsalk · « **Reply #9 on:** 7 Jul 2009, 02:01 pm »

Yes, I use a SB. I take the SB digital output into one of Frank's DAC's. The DAC has no idea the stream isn't coming directly from a CD, so the sound quality is not compromised. I use FLAC and store all the files on my laptop (which I need for other purposes for shows anyway).

Please keep this thread going here as it may be of value to those who might not find their way to the Discless Circle.

- Jim

stc4life · « **Reply #10 on:** 7 Jul 2009, 02:38 pm »

Quote from: mathgeek97 on 7 Jul 2009, 01:38 pm

You can stay completely in the iTunes universe using the optical out on a Apple Airport Express. You'll need a mini to optical plug, plus an optical to coaxial converter. This will let you keep everything in Apple Lossless format and use an iPhone/iPod Touch as a remote.
-Kevin

I also use an airport express. It works great.

floresjc · « **Reply #11 on:** 7 Jul 2009, 02:43 pm »

I thought about using an airport express, seemed easy peasy. But I saw a number of threads online at various sites saying that the DAC in the Airport express stunk, especially if using the analog out. An AVA DAC is $700 i believe plus another 75 for the optical to coax converter, so its not really that cheap to buy three devices to get good quality out of an airport express.

Do people here use the airport express analog out with acceptable results? That would be by far the easiest and cheapest, if it didn't butcher the songs in its DAC. I think a squeezebox may be the best solution for me. I heard the DAC in it is quite good, so I would just need one of them to hook up to the preamp. i can then use either the SB remote or the PC to control playback. I'll look a little deeper into the airport express though.

JerryM · « **Reply #12 on:** 7 Jul 2009, 02:51 pm »

The Airport Express analog-out is pretty poor. Read "bad".

I tried a modded Channel Islands VDA-1 to test the differences. There was no comparison. The AE through a good DAC sounds fantastic. I upgraded to an AVA T8 DAC, and the music sounds perfect.

Have fun,
Jerry

mathgeek97 · « **Reply #13 on:** 7 Jul 2009, 03:42 pm »

floresjc,
Without a nice AVA DAC, the Airport Express is not going to work for you.
As far as formats, Logitech's Web site lists both FLAC and Apple Lossless as supported by the Squeezebox.

Can anybody here verify that there's no lossy conversion to get Apple Lossless to the Squeezebox?
How's the DAC in the Squeezebox?

Kevin

oldmp3 · « **Reply #14 on:** 7 Jul 2009, 04:07 pm »

I use an Apple TV primarily for the great user interface which can be displayed on your wide screen. You can also use your iphone/itouch as a very nice remote. Combined with Apple lossless it's a great server. You can do just about anything on the wide screen you can do with itunes on your mac/pc, such as renting/downloading HD and SD video, youtube

, flickr, etc.

There is some misconception that all your content must be stored on the atv -- this is one option -- but you can also stream content from anything itunes can access such as your pc hard drive or NAS. I don't have a MAC.

The disadvantage of the apple express is the lack of a user interface unless you are in front of itunes.

As others have said, avoid the apple analog output and connect optical to your own receiver or dac if you have one. I'm very satisfied with this on my Songtowers.

oneinthepipe · « **Reply #15 on:** 7 Jul 2009, 06:44 pm »

Is the sole advantage to using a Squeezebox (connected to an external DAC) rather than a Mac's digital output (connected to an external DAC) the wireless capabilities? Is the sound quality any different?

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #16 on:** 7 Jul 2009, 07:01 pm »

This month's Absolute Sound is ALL DIGITAL. Every imaginable gizmo and combination of gizmos digital. So far an interesting read.

jsalk · « **Reply #17 on:** 7 Jul 2009, 07:04 pm »

Quote from: oneinthepipe on 7 Jul 2009, 06:44 pm

Is the sole advantage to using a Squeezebox (connected to an external DAC) rather than a Mac's digital output (connected to an external DAC) the wireless capabilities? Is the sound quality any different?

If you are going to a DAC, there should be absolutely no difference. The bitstream either puts out should be EXACTLY the same as the original CD. In this case, the DAC determines the sound quality.

The wireless aspect can be very handy if you don't want to or can't run cabling. One other advantage is that you can use multiple SB's in different rooms and simultaneously play different music on each of the systems. An SB connected to a small amp and a nice set of bookshelf speakers provides all of the convenience of your main system and can stream from the net as well (internet radio, music services, etc.)

- Jim

zybar · « **Reply #18 on:** 7 Jul 2009, 07:12 pm »

Quote from: jsalk on 7 Jul 2009, 07:04 pm

Quote from: oneinthepipe on 7 Jul 2009, 06:44 pm
Is the sole advantage to using a Squeezebox (connected to an external DAC) rather than a Mac's digital output (connected to an external DAC) the wireless capabilities? Is the sound quality any different?

If you are going to a DAC, there should be absolutely no difference. The bitstream either puts out should be EXACTLY the same as the original CD. In this case, the DAC determines the sound quality.

The wireless aspect can be very handy if you don't want to or can't run cabling. One other advantage is that you can use multiple SB's in different rooms and simultaneously play different music on each of the systems. An SB connected to a small amp and a nice set of bookshelf speakers provides all of the convenience of your main system and can stream from the net as well (internet radio, music services, etc.)

- Jim

Sorry Jim, I definitely don't agree that there "should be" no difference and that the only thing that determines the sound is the DAC. Based on measurements and listening, one can clearly see and hear differences between various transports feeding an external DAC.

I have run controlled tests in a high resolution system in which we level matched a stock Duet, Modwright Transporter, and Bolder Cable SB all feeding a digital signal to a Theta Gen VIII 2 preamp/dac. While I am not going to say they sounded wildly different, the three of us could easily identify that each produced a different sonic signature when using the exact same "bits" coming from the SlimCenter server.

The sound that a DAC produces depends on a lot more than simply the bits on the original recording. While one can debate the value and sonic attributes of cables and cords, the sonic qualities and characteristics of a transport are a lot more grounded in science and measurement.

George

Scott F. · « **Reply #19 on:** 7 Jul 2009, 07:15 pm »

Quote from: mathgeek97 on 7 Jul 2009, 03:42 pm

How's the DAC in the Squeezebox?

The DAC is fine but the analog output of the SB2 and SB3 are mid-fi at best. I can't attest to the Duet as I've not heard one yet. Wayne at Bolder does some very nice sounding mods to the analog section. If you go with an external DAC (or even the analog mods), I would suggest a good power supply. Wayne (again) has a nice lower cost power supply he offers. Then again, you could go for one of his uber modded power supplies. The power supply on analog and digital makes a significant difference in the sound just as it does in any piece of gear.