AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => The Acoustics Circle => Topic started by: Elizabeth on 22 May 2019, 01:31 pm
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My 70 year oldish anger spent, I will quickly repost some of the reasons for starting this thread:
After a year of upgrading, and ending with months of tweaking, the last was finding the perfect midrange resistor for my Magnepan 20.7s..
THe next thing to be interesting was what is under the equipment.
I started buying butcher blocks. I put them everywhere over the couple of months buying them.
Maple 3" by 18" by 19" each up on original Tip Toes, under Amplifier, Furman REF20 conditioner, and under PS AUdio P600 regenerator,
Main rack has Walnut 1 3/4" thick 22" by 16" on the original glass shelves (cheap rack), another low version has two 1 3/4" by 19" by 16" at bottom, with above a 17" by 14" under the CD changer over there. The other side is AV stuff.
Third rack has two TT on top, with each having a 1 3/4" thick Maple 22" by 19" as bases, THe Kuzma TT has a end grain Walnut 3" by 19" by 16" uder it, on top of the Maple. THe Rega same but Maple under it. All told 20 butcher blocks.
Then I started with footers. Tried various stuff that was not great. Then 'discovered' Pen Blanks. Exotic wood pen blanks are a hobby craft supply used by hobby wood turners to make PENS. Apparently this is a big hobby, big enough several online stores offer hundreds of exotic wood varieties for sale in the pen blank size (3/4" by 3/4" by 5") Nice thing, they are mostly a buck a pop. up to a few dollars for rarer woods. I started with the pen blanks, and tried out many sorts of wood.. Discoveing the really heavy sort had much more effect. Settling on predominantly Dalbergia family of wood. (Rosewood).
Then I decided to get bigger, and started trying Knife Scales size (1" by 1 1/2" by 5") wood. Buying African Blackwood, Bolivian Rosewood, Honduran Rosewood, Cocobolo ..in the Knife Scale size (apparently the size is used to make handles for knives, guns.. Not as popular, so fewer sorts of wood in this size.) One odd thing about the knife scale size is the similarity to the Golden Ratio, with the last length doubled. Does it mean anything??? just writing it down)
So I tried a bunch of those, and they are similar, just MORE OF whatever. So size matters.
I found IN MY SYSTEM, that the African Blackwood gave a lot more bass, more slam, more detail. But not more midrange.. Kind of highs and lows boosted. Cocobolo more even across the range, not as much detail accented. The Bolivian, and Honduran similar to the Cocobolo, but a little more clarity. (The Honduran is the worst piece to piece badly shaped, being way off the sizes, where the others a lot more even, and easier to work to get the exact same height. Which for me with no power tools, matters.
So after playing with those, I decided to try even bigger wood blocks. Bowl size, which can be 4" by 4" by 2" or 5x5 or 6x6 and two or three inches tall. I got some 2" by 4x4" and they again are offeing a bit more, (not as big a jump as from pen to knife scale). Primarily they are better under the Power conditioners. and one preamp power supply (they cost more, and are harder to buy in enough quality, I bought out TWO places to get them.. Just sayin'.
No African Blackwood as this size costs $33 a pop to $50 a pop... a lot of money to just experiment with. Plus the 2" height I cannot fit them in the rack much.
The improvements in the sound quality justify the endless fooling around. and I DO mean over and over changing the wood.. One preamp I would say I have changed to see what is happening.. two dozen times or more... Since it seem to be the most sensitive. (Threshold FET TEN) Other preamp a dozen, every thing else maybe a few times.. The improvements have peaked in multiple goosebumps up to bursting into tears.. That good. naturally I did not leave it like that, since it also had less clarity than I wanted. Just to say it was a lot of Cocobolo knife scales. (Cocobolo in 2"by 4X4 is unobtanum so it seems.).. And wamth like crazy.
I usually like more clarity, so even though it seems marvelous, I have to keep at it. maybe I can get both... So down off the mountaintop peak, and back to working on the sound.
Was it worth the money Hell Yes! For me, the main total saving grace is that my formerly a bit lean sounding system, which got that way from me chasing ever more clarity for years.. Now is warm and full and rich and wonderful PLUS being clear.. Amazing.
Of all the tweaks I have tried, usually and invariably anything that really gave more clarity, ALWAYS made the system leaner. ALWAYS.
Except the exotic wood. Somehow it can do both. and restore a bit of warmth all the other tweaks took away.
So this to me, is amazing.Finally something that adds all across the spectrum.
Now if your system is already warm, the wood bits may not do much. If you are lean or neutral, and want more warmth.. Do the exotic wood footers..
Problems: If you suck at any hand woodwork, and have zero tools. The exotic wood may not work out. Since I have had to Peel off endless wax (many come 'waxed') and had to file down the blanks to be the same size.
((best file is an automotive metal file with crescent teeth '0' size)) DO NOT SAND. particularly not power orbit sanding...sanding is bad, the dust may harm you. The filing creates no dust. A LOT of filing.. lots and lots. But if you happen to have wood workshop power tools You have it made. Getting four exactly the same height by hand, difficult. With power tools, easy. Or if you have someone who can help get them even height, and flat... wonderful.
I do not know if leaving the wood unfinished is going to matter. usually my just leaving wood to season works out fine, unfinished. But I have never done that with exotic wood. So I do not know. Maybe in two years I can say? Though I cannot see how a few cracks can matter anyway. So I am not worried.
This was a real thrilling experiment. I am amazed how much better my system sounds. IT really made a big jump in quality of listening.
I do not know if it can do as much for your setup. But for a few dollars worth of pen blanks.. you can see for yourself.
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Another fact is the Walnut is much lighter in weight than the Maple. a 18" by 19" 3" thick Walnut is 12 pounds, and the Maple is 20. big difference. I just went for the Walnut first since no one uses Walnut.( iconoclast in me) I am assuming the Maple will have a different sound to it.
So this is the first post about a new area I am exploring.
This is something I didn't know. Of course, it makes sense that different hardwoods would have different densities, but I hadn't considered the possibility before. Thanks for mentioning it. I love the look of walnut, but I think I'll stick with maple for my own needs.
Michael
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((there is not proper place for this thread, so this circle is as close as I can find. hope it is OK))
(One thing about the wood. it is not all 'good looking' dark walnut. the wood had a lot of lighter areas. Which I did not know about Walnut. No problem, just mentioning it in case someone gets one, and is shocked the wood is 1/4 to 1/5 light grain Plus the 'end grain underside is still long grain. like they laid the vertical blocks on a 1/2" board then stuck it all together.
Another fact is the Walnut is much lighter in weight than the Maple. a 18" by 19" 3" thick Walnut is 12 pounds, and the Maple is 20. big difference. I just went for the Walnut first since no one uses Walnut.( iconoclast in me) I am assuming the Maple will have a different sound to it.
So this is the first post about a new area I am exploring.
At the relatively low price point of Butcher Block Acoustics , one would expect to get lumber that's a mix of heartwood and sapwood (the lighter stuff you mention.) It would drive the cost up considerably if they discarded all the material that had lighter sapwood. No idea if the different densities of sap vs. heartwood would affect tonality though. If you want to see tweaking out to the max by altering system tonality via wood platforms: https://www.michaelgreenaudio.net/platforms
It would be interesting to hear two systems of using same components in identical rooms, one "tuned" and one stock. That would be an interesting project for an audio show.
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As far as footers are concerned, both under the blocks and equipment is the suggestion to use hard material or rubber/silicone style? My knowledge is limited on this topic, please forgive if the question has previously been delt with i did not re-search deeply, just curious.
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Hi, this is what I did. I call it the Down East Style. I live near Portland Maine. I went to a near by saw mill and found 2 inch thick Poplar and Pine rough-cut planks for cheap. The sides are busted up old lobster trap lathes that did some time in Casco Bay. The feet are called cookie's and they are threaded on a ground cable from a fishing trawl net. There stamped out of old tires and have a fabric in the rubber. There all over the place around here and a fisherman would give you all you need for free. I made some matching cabinets for the other Heath stuff too.......did any of you get any ideas from those old Mapleshade green catalogs you would get in the mail?......Mark.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=194799)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=194800)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=194801)
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This is something I didn't know. Of course, it makes sense that different hardwoods would have different densities, but I hadn't considered the possibility before. Thanks for mentioning it. I love the look of walnut, but I think I'll stick with maple for my own needs.
Michael
Michael
I have a set of Maple blocks that I use to test equipment , but prefer to use the Rack,(WAF) Since you take a trip to Asia quite often have you ever looked at the possibility of Teak wood Blocks ? I wonder what is the density of teak wood and how would they effect the sound of an amplifier ? they sure would look pretty :idea:
Asghar
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Ashgar,
I've never considered Teak wood. However, there is a beautiful redwood (cedar?) native to Taiwan and there is stunning marble on the east coast that I have been tempted to try. My OCD WAF acceptable rack in Taiwan is a tempered glass Ikea TV stand which I dislike. I may someday take a hammer to it. :duh:
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Why put butcher blocks on the shelves when you can build the shelves from butcher blocks?
Years ago I decided to go mini with all components and needed a small footprint rack. I settled on building my own out of butcher block. It worked as intended, but can't say what sonic attributes it had. Although it's long since dismantled, I still use the pieces when needed.
Rack:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=194817)
In use:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=194816)
Still using pieces:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=194445)
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I've been influenced by this:
http://www.barrydiamentaudio.com/vibration.htm (http://www.barrydiamentaudio.com/vibration.htm)
After various experiments involving Townshend pods, bicycle tyres and Finite-Elemente Cerabase feet, I settled mostly on Symposium products (shelves and rollerblocks under all gear, shelves under the speakers).
When experimenting I was listening for improvements in the high frequencies - more detailed percussion etc. - and I got that with the CD Transport, amp and power regenerator, but heard no differences with my equaliser and DAC. The improvements were tiny and obviously not worth the money. However, after getting fed up with trying to hear these improvements I just sat back and listened for pleasure. What I found was that the music seemed a bit louder then usual (it was set to an exact volume) and things like rhythm guitar and piano just sounded more real, separate. It turns out that these are the symptoms of improvements in transient response. I didn't know this but that is exactly what the Symposium site describes. The Townshend pods and F-E Cerabase have the same effect.
Since then someone has pointed out that these rollerblocks get small indentations in the concave parts, so I looked and they do. I presume that must effect the outcome.
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I use Boos Block, maple cutting boards for my turntables. They have several sizes and are relatively low in cost, a nice product. Mine is 1.5" thick.
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My DIY Butcher Block rack:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=58323)
I bought used BB tables on CraigsList, cut / sanded / refinished them, and slapped it all together with 80-20 center channel aluminum. Just used 80-20 hardware and bolts / screws, no audiophile approved isolation devices or thingies. It is massively heavy, solid and rigid.
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(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/924/RR75DD.jpg)
Been doing butcher block for years under my stuff, even made a rack with it. Not so much for sound quality, just looks and durability. Usually use the PE brass cones underneath. Always got the Snow River cutting boards from Bed, Bath, and Beyond, can't beat those 20% coupons. Didn't see them the last time I was in there, but Amazon has them.
https://www.amazon.com/Snow-River-7V03012-Hardwood-Butcher/dp/B00280MY22 (https://www.amazon.com/Snow-River-7V03012-Hardwood-Butcher/dp/B00280MY22)
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Added: went to local IKEA, (what a chore wandering giant space, round and round!) Anyway, I knew enter the Exit! closer to the butcher block stuff. Bought one thick 17 x 14 bamboo, two thin 17 x 11 bamboo and a 17 x 11 wood,
Stuck one thin with wrapping still on (in case wanted to return it) between top of Marantz SA-10 which had Threshold FET TEN sitting in top of it. So stuck the IKEA board between with rubber at very ends to lift 1/8"
DANG! sweeter ... suddenly Joni Mitchel's voice is a slight bit better.. tiny, but ...(I did it while playing music, since it was easy to slide it under..)
All this is so subtle.. Will take awhile to say yeah or nay.. (plus I really am waiting on some small ebony footers on the way.
I found the bamboo blocks to be a great positive. But the blocks that have long strands off bamboo sounded much better than the scooped off shorter strands.
I also found that purring some springs underneath also helped - a little like the Isoaccoustic Gaia footers.
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I have a slightly OT question for you folks.
I've been tinkering with the idea of buying a couple 1.75" thick live edge slabs and mounting them on 4" wide welded steel arms (not sure how to describe it) for support. I could add sorbothane between the slab and the steel arms and bolt the slabs to the steel arms. My hope is that the thickness, the sorbothane, the bolts, and the steel arms would kill most (all?) resonance.
What do you think of this idea? Am I better off with butcher blocks? [I'm trying to avoid spending $3k on a rack for my equipment.]
If this is too OT, I'll remove my post and begin a new thread.
Thanks for your thoughts.
Michael
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If the slabs are large enough simply drill holes in corners and use Stainless steel all thread, washers and bolts.
This is a very common method used to make audio stands. And the height adjustment is limitless.
You might need a thicker slab. Also some live edge woods last longer.
Update: diy w pictures https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/the-official-flexy-rack-thread.584829/
Alan
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If the slabs are large enough simply drill holes in corners and use Stainless steel all thread, washers and bolts.
This is a very common method used to make audio stands. And the height adjustment is limitless.
You might need a thicker slab. Also some live edge woods last longer.
Update: diy w pictures https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/the-official-flexy-rack-thread.584829/
Alan
Howdy, Alan!
Thanks for the link. Knowing Melody's WAF issues, I may need to mask the stainless steel all threads with wood. Her eagle eyes might/would latch onto them and she would complain until I go crazy. :duh: :banghead:
The threaded screws are a lot easier and cheaper than what I had in mind. I'll do some more research.
Michael
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Hi Elizabeth, If you go to ebay and type in "maple bowl blanks" they have a lot of sizes to choose from. I'm going to try some out under my amps.
Good Luck, TISH
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Have been using Ebony Pen blanks for years now under transformers. If you recall Promithius who made Passive trannie based preamps experimented with Ebony and other exotic woods. I learned from Nicholas to use similar but dissimilar materials. So hard wood to soft wood and visa versa.
The most affective plinth was Maple, however only in a sand bed. We found Maple plinth and Brass footers bright. Great for ones TT. Do not use glass, granite [ unless damped ]as shelves. Can you say hard, bright and reflective ? It ALL makes a difference have fun trying.
charles
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Just ordered some two-toned cocobolo pen blanks to set underneath my preamp which sits directly on glass. I typically use Herbies to good effect, but gonna try something different.
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Received my pen 6 blanks, glued two pair of three together, cut 'em in half, and placed the resulting four blocks underneath the feet of my preamp. Immediate improvement. Quieted the hint of brightness. A great $13 investment!
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Dave Elledge of Pi Audio Group has tried various species of wood for his products and liked mesquite best... and I've got a pasture full of it. If someone wants some branches cut to length, send me a PM. Probably $5-$15 depending on shipping.
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Dave Elledge of Pi Audio Group has tried various species of wood for his products and liked mesquite best...
I have 30 tons of mesquite but right now it's all in a 20' shipping container along with my woodshop. I sold my building and am taking a year vacation before building a new studio. Then I can build you guys some beautiful audio racks and equipment tables that will make your equipment sound like a million bucks.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=198501&size=xlarge)
My mesquite speakers are still my favorite, the front baffle is 1-3/4" thick solid mesquite
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=100672.0 (https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=100672.0)
I have 10' and 12' mesquite planks that make outrageously beautiful side tables for your electronics.
But right now everything is buried so everyone has to wait while I play.
The table below is 10' long x 22" wide x 33" high. Each table is unique and one of a kind so the price varies, this table was $7150.
(http://www.wghwoodworking.com/pages/10ft_console_table/console_table1.jpg)
(http://www.wghwoodworking.com/pages/10ft_console_table/console_table3.jpg)
(http://www.wghwoodworking.com/pages/10ft_console_table/console_table2.jpg)
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Pretty table, but kinda pricey for a country boy.
Every thing you've ever posted pictures of has been stunningly gorgeous.
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Pretty table, but kinda pricey for a country boy.
Kinda pricey for everyone except the 1%. The Mark Levinson No 585.5 Integrated Amplifier ($16,000) would not look out of place on a mesquite slab table.
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Well, it's a beautiful table. How did you join the legs?
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The legs are attached to the top with custom made welded steel "T" brackets to ensure they won't collapse when the 265 lb table is moved. The bottom of the bracket is glued inside a deep channel routed in each leg using West Epoxy.
The top of the "T" fits into a recess routed into the bottom of the table top, making sure everything is perfectly flush. The #12 screws into the top are counter sunk so no attachments are seen.
The legs also have hidden adjustable furniture glides keeping the legs about 1/8" off the floor and the table from rocking on uneven floors.
The top started out as a 240 lb mesquite slab that I air dried for 10 years, 11' long x 24" wide x 3-1/2" thick. The initial flattening is done by hand with a power plane because the board is too big and heavy to push through a joiner and my joiner is only 16" wide. I work by myself, the trick is not to get crushed.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=198538)
I still have this boards twin if anyone is interested.
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Beautiful job.
charles
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Elizabeth you certainly know your woods. Very informative thank you.
charles
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My local Rockler carried pen blanks, and probably knife scales too.
Or you can order online
https://www.rockler.com/wood/knife-scales
https://www.rockler.com/power-tools/wood-turning/pen-blanks/natural-wood-pen-blanks
Woodcraft also is online and has B&M stores
https://www.woodcraft.com/categories/turning-wood
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I'm uncertain that wood that makes musical instruments has anything to do with the topic at hand. And butcher block cuts certainly aren't used for instruments.
Use what you want, or nothing at all.
If someone wants to try mesquite, I'm cutting some up today for one of our members.
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My local Rockler carried pen blanks, and probably knife scales too.
Or you can order online
https://www.rockler.com/wood/knife-scales
https://www.rockler.com/power-tools/wood-turning/pen-blanks/natural-wood-pen-blanks
Woodcraft also is online and has B&M stores
https://www.woodcraft.com/categories/turning-wood
Thank you for links. As I mentioned before the Ebony blanks under transformers are very affective in controlling resonance and vibration. Great for DIY projects and custom retrofit.
charles
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I am asking that the offending posts be removed or kill the whole thread.
Just because you found a great spot to hawk you stuff, does not mean the person who started the thread has to go along with it.
No no no. Please don't remove or kill. I love seeing these pictures of wood and the woodworking. My $0.02
gab
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S. Clark was offering the same FREE wood on another site maybe he just was not clear enough. He is a very generous person from my experience.
charles
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S. Clark was offering the same FREE wood on another site maybe he just was not clear enough. He is a very generous person from my experience.
charles
Yeah he's a good guy. Fellow Texan!
gab
PS - we got LOTs of mesquite around here. There is even a suburb of Dallas named after it :thumb:
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Let me make it perfectly clear. I had offered to go out and cut some mesquite with my saws and my time for the cost of driving to the post office and shipping. This offer still stands... except for those I consider to be dicks.
Also, if you start a thread at AC, you don't own the damn thing-- so get off the mine and my crap. Hope that makes my position clear.
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Let me make it perfectly clear. I had offered to go out and cut some mesquite with my saws and my time for the cost of driving to the post office and shipping. This offer still stands... except for those I consider to be dicks.
Also, if you start a thread at AC, you don't own the damn thing-- so get off the mine and my crap. Hope that makes my position clear.
Yeah I guess you CAN hijack any thread you please, anytime. Not my problem.
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You have a problem if you think offering some of my wood for footers, which is exactly what this thread is about, is hijacking. You seriously think this is something other than a generous offer of my time? Wow.
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They should have started their OWN THREAD. not take over mine, then whine at ME for saying something. Which is particularly galling to me. I have already asked the moderator to send it to be fixed, removing the' for sale' posts.
This thread was just fine until the problem posts came along.
I guess I can repeat myself if I want.
Sounds a bit cranky to me.
"Get off my lawn, kid!" :lol:
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I have four (4) mesquite cubes I will give away. The blocks are exactly 2-1/2" square on all sides so they can be flipped in any direction, sanded smooth and ready for finishing.
Elizabeth are you interested?
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=198558)
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I don't believe Elizabeth will be responding.
I've used the same maple blocks I made years ago under most of my equipment. My results are very similar to Charles, except I would say more clarity than brightness, but that's just semantics and personal preference. I'd consider the results the same and adds credence to the notion that different woods make significant differences when used under electronics.
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I've tried pine and Bamboo but not mesquite. I dont think that timber is available in Australia.
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I've tried pine and Bamboo but not mesquite. I dont think that timber is available in Australia.
It's native to the desert South West of the United State and Mexico. Depending on rainfall, it's a scrubby tree with large thorns and is considered a pest by ranchers due it's reputed large uptake of water. But the main thing is its density, both g/cm3 and ring growth. The density is twice that of red oak and about 15% less than hard maple. Since it's native to areas with significant drought, the growth rings are often densely packed.
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I've tried pine and Bamboo but not mesquite. I dont think that timber is available in Australia.
Just put your gear on top of some cane toads. Tell us how it sounds...
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Just put your gear on top of some cane toads. Tell us how it sounds...
I've heard if you lick their backs you can hear all the colors of the rainbow! :thumb:
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The cane toads come in 4 sizes depending on the size of your gear
http://toadshop.com/stuffed-cane-toad (http://toadshop.com/stuffed-cane-toad)
(http://toadshop.com/image/cache/catalog/products/ts0240-ts0241-ts0242-ts0243-front-800x533-product_popup.jpg)
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What's the point of someone removing all their posts? What am I missing?
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What's the point of someone removing all their posts? What am I missing?
Hissy fit?
"I'm gonna take my ball and go home!" :roll:
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It's a shame. Elizabeth is a member that has a lot to offer. Her history of tweaks and willingness to share adds value here.
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What's the point of someone removing all their posts? What am I missing?
Elizabeth does this all the time. JohnR made a rule about it regarding trashing threads by removing all your posts. It seems as though she has a unique view on any thread she starts. I think the thread may continue on just fine without her.
It's a shame. Elizabeth is a member that has a lot to offer. Her history of tweaks and willingness to share adds value here.
I agree completely, I always read her posts with interest.
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I don't!
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Her profile says she's on line right now so she's not completely gone...yet.
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I think this is a good thread. It's informative, and multiple folks have tried it and found improvements in sound. That's great!
Thank you, Elizabeth, for starting this thread. I'd high five you if we were face to face. :thumb:
However, any thread I start is not 'my' thread. It's public. This means anyone can join in to offer ideas or criticize. Ideally, the criticism is thoughtful and not hurtful. [We have Admins hanging around to make sure sand doesn't get tossed in people's eyes.] Personally, I love all the back and forth here. I hope you'll reconsider your hurt and stick around for future discussions. I've made mistakes here over the years, and I've apologized when necessary, and tried hard to avoid crossing that line again.
Someone I know has a shirt that reads something like: "I trip. I fall. Then, I get up and dance again." Life is like this. We occasionally trip and fall. Then, we take a few breaths; reconsider the situation, and try again. Our interactions on this forum are no different. Let's keep trying. :)
Regards,
Michael
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Hey,
Looking for some guidance on the type of wood to use under my full-range speakers; Currently using Gaia II Isolators with carpet spikes under my speakers but my carpet is so thick that I can't get them perfectly leveled and toed-in ( I'm a perfectionist). I'm thinking about eliminating the carpet discs and placing the Gaia directly on top of the wood platform and this should make my set-up much easier... :D
Thanks,
Wig
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TYpe of wood.. Well I would suggest hard maple. Since you can buy ready made butcher blocks in lots of sizes, and can get them custom made. to any size you want. The issue to me would be the board having the same probles of staying level on a thick carpet. You would need some sort of points or at least something (even wood skids? V shaped attached to the boards to get between the carpet down to the carpet base easily.) I do not think just a board alone can solve the settling or angling from bad settling. My speakers settle INTO the carpet, and then if I move them, they get askew from the flattened are vs the plush new area the speaker is on. Maybe if you had a relatively larger board than the base? (then you could move the speaker, and even is askew on the base... Once you have the right spot, Then move the base to be just rigntin relation to the base? Right now I am using pen blanks under the base of my speakers.. they are settling into the carpet too....
Butcher Block Acoustics makes many sizes of ready made butcher blocks, and custom too. I have though if getting custom size 29" by 15" (or to be larger 30" by 16"?) for my Magnepan 20.7
If I could actually get ANY wood, I would go for Rosewood family (Dalbergia) wood. Bolivian Rosewood. (E. Indian Rosewood is way more available, but is lighter weight) Cocobolo is also more readily available and a good choice, but getting expensive. With perhaps 2 slats made of African Blackwood. There are plenty of custom made butcher blocks on sites like Etsy.. Someone there might like to make something to order in exotic woods. PS there are MANY restrictions on Rosewood family of wood as far as international shipment of the wood and even more so the finished products. So read up a restrictions on Dalbergia if you want to persue it as a choice.
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Hey,
Looking for some guidance on the type of wood to use under my full-range speakers; Currently using Gaia II Isolators with carpet spikes under my speakers but my carpet is so thick that I can't get them perfectly leveled and toed-in ( I'm a perfectionist). I'm thinking about eliminating the carpet discs and placing the Gaia directly on top of the wood platform and this should make my set-up much easier... :D
Thanks,
Wig
I had some 1 inch thick MDF shelving that I didn't need and didn't want to throw out so I built a couple speaker plinths instead. I cut 4 equal size pieces and liquid nailed them together to make a couple 2 inch thick pieces. I then bought 2 sets of these: https://www.parts-express.com/parts-express-speaker-cabinet-1-2-super-toe-spike-set-4-pcs--240-730 (https://www.parts-express.com/parts-express-speaker-cabinet-1-2-super-toe-spike-set-4-pcs--240-730) and mounted them. Painted them gloss black and use them for speaker plinths or amp stands or whatever.
Cheap, easy, and very effective.
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You need longer spikes to penetrate the carpet. If you desire to decouple speakers with a plinth you will still Then after spiked plinth for best results the speakers would need to be decoulped from plinth.
One must be careful raising the speakers too much. The tweeter should be at ear level. Not an issue for Planars. Look at Mapleshade for ideas. Expensive solutions there.
The type of wood matters as Elizabeth points out. They sound different and experimentation is time consuming and costly. One size does not fit all.
For now may I suggest just longer spikes first. Then after listening try something else. BTW does not the Gaia isolators come with a longer spike ?
charles
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All,
Thanks for your responses and advice, much appreciated!
My Gaia II carpet spikes are about 1/2"long and the idea of a wood platform seems like the best solution. My speakers are 8.0 Cu Ft measuring 19" W x 21" D and the bases plus Gaia would raise the speakers up a few more inches which is fine being that they are much lower than ear level.
Butcher Blocks looks to be very reasonably priced and may be the way to go unless I can find something cheaper that would do the job. Maybe I'll check with Lowes or other hardware stores to see if they have any scrap butcher blocks.
Thanks,
Wig
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Wig,
I haven't tried them, but Ikea sells jumbo sized bamboo cutting boards which are about an inch thick. I do not know their dimensions, but they are inexpensive when compared to butcher blocks.
Michael
P.S. I love my SW1X DAC III STD! :thumb:
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I am thinking to buy one more Butcher Block Acoustics.
Go to Amazon and discover the prices have gone up.. . So a 19" by 16" by 1 3/4" Maple I paid $72.84 free shipping just two months ago, is now $88 free shipping..
This always happens.. Any audiophile company success is guaranteed to cause higher prices..
Maybe they expect to be able to eat... ?? :thumb:
I guess I AM lucky I went crazy and bought 20 of them before the price increases... (I 'saved' something like $500. Don't ask what I actually spent to save $500)
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Ya gotta spend money to save money, everybody knows that! :rotflmao:
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Woodcraft has 24" x 60" maple butcher block counter tops for $219.99, bigger sizes are available.
https://www.woodcraft.com/search?q=counter+top&button=search (https://www.woodcraft.com/search?q=counter+top&button=search)
Many cities have a Woodcraft store to save on shipping. AZ Sash and Door used to sell maple butcher block countertops for $25/foot, check your local kitchen/counter top stores, lumber yard, Home Depot.
Cut the tops to size yourself using a circular saw, a neighbor, a handyman, or a local cabinet shop.
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Home Depot 8'x2'x1.5" butcher block maple for $324-- would make a whole bunch of bases.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/8-ft-L-x-2-ft-1-D-in-x-1-5-in-T-Butcher-Block-Countertop-in-Unfinished-Maple-BF-8/301001250
But, I'd bet on Wood Craft quality over Home Depot
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Here is a source for butcher block in several wood species including maple and walnut. They offer standard pre-cut sizes as well as custom sizes for those who do not have the tools or skill set to cut down large pieces. Maple is a bear to cut. I know, I have tried. :shake:
http://www.perfectplank.com/index.html
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Here is a source for butcher block in several wood species including maple and walnut. They offer standard pre-cut sizes as well as custom sizes for those who do not have the tools or skill set to cut down large pieces. Maple is a bear to cut. I know, I have tried. :shake:
http://www.perfectplank.com/index.html
I built my racks using butcher blocks purchased from Perfect Plank years ago. Great company with very good prices.
Martin
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I tell ya people lots of good info here. Very neighborly of y'all.
charles
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More important than the platforms imo are the footers. You want that platform solidly lock to the flooring below your carpet, and the speakers solidly locked to the platform. No movement.
Charles is right that Mapleshade has great products for this application as do others. They'll set you back a few hundred dollars but can transform a system. Thick carpet footers under the platform, low/regular footers under the speakers.
https://www.mapleshadestore.com/brassfooters.php
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OK, WTF just happened....????!!!
A couple of weeks ago, I reported on the positive benefits of using cocobolo pen blanks underneath my preamp. Tonight, I tried Texas mesquite wood pucks cut straight from the branch. I simply removed the cocobolo squares from beneath my preamp and placed the mesquite pucks under the feet. Frankly, I was shocked by the difference in sound. There's no question that even the most ardent audio naysayer would have heard the difference. The sound became sweeter. I don't know how else to describe it. Definitely better, and not by a small margin. To make sure I wasn't losing my mind, I placed the cocobolo squares back in, played my favorite track, and then put the mesquite back in. Wow!
Wait! It gets better!!! I placed the cocobolo squares underneath my DAC and there was a slight improvement. The mesquite/cocobolo combo worked out well for me. Of course, Elizabeth would encourage us to experiment with a variety wood types, but I'm good right here. I removed tube gear from my system because I didn't want to go down that rabbit hole.
Anyway, for very, very cheap, you can tweak the sound of your system with wood. I can't explain it, so don't ask me to. Just try it. Hell, some of you can go in your backyard, cut some pieces from a fallen branch and see what happens. You might be surprised at the outcome.
So what did we learn today, boys and girls? That's right -- wood is good.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=199013)
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I'm a bit stunned that it worked so well. Unfortunately, the rest of that branch went into the grill yesterday to cook a steak. I've got maple underneath my turntables, but nothing under preamps or amps. Guess I need to get the chain saw and cut some for myself.
I'll have to see if there is a dead mesquite on the property... most has gone for firewood, or it's green.
Glad it worked, Early!
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Glad some bits of wood improved the sound.
I found another exotic wood site https://wphardwoods.com/
And they have an even larger selection. Where some sites may have ten of some item, this place has 1000. Plus real time how many available. They have an intro video, I suggest watching it. some of the large $5000 slabs are amazing to just see.
Free shipping on turning wood starts at just $150.
I think the site is pretty new, (they just migrated) so many of the pictures of the wood are just stock photos in the turning stock area. But they do seem to be adding real pics here and there. I have just placed an order, but do not know how great or not the wood will be.
Mainly glad someone has success with wood footers. :thumb:
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Awesome thread and some great information! :thumb:
P.S. Yes, that SW1X Dac III Std is Extraordinary :D
Wig
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OK, WTF just happened....????!!!
A couple of weeks ago, I reported on the positive benefits of using cocobolo pen blanks underneath my preamp. Tonight, I tried Texas mesquite wood pucks cut straight from the branch. I simply removed the cocobolo squares from beneath my preamp and placed the mesquite pucks under the feet. Frankly, I was shocked by the difference in sound. There's no question that even the most ardent audio naysayer would have heard the difference. The sound became sweeter. I don't know how else to describe it. Definitely better, and not by a small margin. To make sure I wasn't losing my mind, I placed the cocobolo squares back in, played my favorite track, and then put the mesquite back in. Wow!
Wait! It gets better!!! I placed the cocobolo squares underneath my DAC and there was a slight improvement. The mesquite/cocobolo combo worked out well for me. Of course, Elizabeth would encourage us to experiment with a variety wood types, but I'm good right here. I removed tube gear from my system because I didn't want to go down that rabbit hole.
Anyway, for very, very cheap, you can tweak the sound of your system with wood. I can't explain it, so don't ask me to. Just try it. Hell, some of you can go in your backyard, cut some pieces from a fallen branch and see what happens. You might be surprised at the outcome.
So what did we learn today, boys and girls? That's right -- wood is good.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=199013)
Okay I knew i had some mesquite scraps in the garage so i finally dug them out. Low and behold after placing them under my DAC and amplifier the sound was more musical and resolute. Quazzy give it a try and see what you hear, simply amazing. thanks EarlyB
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LOL. I used a cutting board under my "rat road" Crown PS-200 set up! Just a Bluetooth dongle into an un-powered Shiit one-pot pre-amp.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=200109)
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Used one on the top of another rack mounted PS-200 at our cottage.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=200111)
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I had some 12" long 1" square exotic wood (6) each, under the Magnepan 20.7 speakers. It was pretty good.
I was fooling around with some Bloodwood (Brosimum rubescens) under various electronics, and each time it was a no. Some other wood sounded better. Tonight I was thinking: gee this is winding down.
Then I thought what the heck stick the Bloodwood under the speakers. (this is getting easier to do as I gain practice in how...)
Hot Damn! the improvement is just wonderful!. Not some spectacular thing. Just a soft, marvelous sense, closer to real... The goosebumps.. a good increase in goosebumps is alwasy a good sign.
If you would have asked me BEFORE I did it, I would have said 99% gonna be a waste of time. (after all, several other places the Bloodwood was worthless, dull, deadening..compared to otehr wood.)
So for anyone interested in this exotic wood experiment. Do not give up!
So yeah the Bloodwood under the Magnepan 20.7 speakers is a keeper. I used (4) 6" 1 1/2" square at ends, 1/4 way (where the actual brackets holding the speaker panel meets the base) 12" same, middle two 18" same. but spread in a V point front, with a final 12" in the backside of V. (the V stick out front about 2" to protect the speaker from tipping if bumped. The rear middle 12" also sticks out for same reason.
The main issue that has annoyed me is sloppy sizing. Even when asked, the sizes are not right on. And if NOT asking them to check, well you can forget getting exotic wood the same size unless it is 1" or less and kiln dried. (the vast majority of 1 1/2" or bigger is not kiln dried.) one place that does tell you on the website is Bell Forest. Not perfect, but they try. I do not have any real tools to fix this. But if you do, then it is a breeze.
I would say this has been my biggest blockage. stuff sizing that is hard to use in fours.. even threes.. as is. (let alone seven like the speakers... but those are pretty good actually. If not on carpet, way more of a problem as they are off a 1/32" ... 1/64"
Then the wax on everything that is not kiln dried....
I took most of the wax off, except the ends. I will see how it does over the next year or two as it dries.
(mabe if I get lucky I will find a woodworker whom I can get the stuff evened up eventually. I will wait until the wood is dried though....)
Added: today it is afternoon, I can finally feel OK playing some music with a lot of bass.. wow. great fullness, crisp, good impact. Better than previously. Sadly for me, a little more than I can allow at normal volumes. So I have to turn it down. this is not a killer, but does limit my playing stuff with a not of bass (I am playing tecnho music,"Radikal Deep". my basis for playing music with bass is Depeche Mode.. in general, Depeche Mode has a little bass, not a lot, and in general is my'this is what I am able to play at my normal volume' (70dB C weighted) and not have to worry the bass is impacting my (apartment) neighbors. I just started a Depeche Mode CD and yeah it is fine.
Added later: Well the fact the wood is sinking into the carpet, crushing flat the undermat, is bad. Damaging the sound that seemed so perfect! The treble clarity is still amazing, but some of the goosebump flavor is gone, plus the bass is starting to overwhelm the lower mids. I am going to place some bits of junk wood under the ends of the Bloodwood to see if that can alleviate the new minor problem. I have some nice African Blackwood, but I hate to cut it up just to see if it helps. So I will go by an Oak strip locally and cut it up into 4" 1/4"thick strips and stick in 24 bits.. to lift the body of the Bloodwood out of the crushed padding.... Hope it works.
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Updates...
I found an interesting thing I thought was worth a new post about how the bits of wood work together (or not)
Previously I had swapped out some one inch square 12 inches long Brazilian Ebony I had under my Magnepan 20.7 speakers to use some Bloodwood 1 1/2" square various 6" 12" and 18" long under them. At first sounded great. But as the wood settled INTO THE CARPET, the sound changed to less great.
I decided to use underfooters, and only had some African Blackwood I bought cut as castoffs, 1/4" by 1" by 4" and placed them under the ends of the Bloodwood to raise the Bloodwood up out of the carpet.
Well, the sound gained a lot more bass. too much for the apartment! I had to significantly lower the volume or worry about bass bleed into other apartments (I will not bother my neighbors!)
This went on for a week. what to do?? Well I had a oak rod, just laying around 1/2" by 3/4" by eight feet. Cut it up into little 3" lengths, and replaced all the Ebony bits with the oak bits.
The extra extra bass caused by the ebony, gone. Less issue with the bass.
And this is just little bits under OTHER wood....
The main thing to write this is the subtle ways the wood interacts with everything. And the fact of the CARPET being an issue under the wood main devices.. With carpeting and pads.. The wood sinking into the carpet really changes the character of the sound created by the wood additions. Solving this is mainly adding small end lifts the right size to sink into the carpet and leave the main wood up, just touching the carpet surface, on stuff like my Magnepan 20.7s/ Or if one is using butcher blocks on carpet. best to lift them a bit.
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Wood is good. Try Ebony wood pen blanks under transformers in lieu of that rubber. Cardas wood blocks offer an interesting affect as well. Eliz since ya like to experiment you may want to try wood speaker stand to replace the stock Maggie feet/stands. The metal resonates and rings compared to wood. Anyway thank you for bringing up the wood advantage. One can get as Eliz has verified an improvement or difference wanted.
charles
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Rollo: for comment "metal feet" of Magnepans...
I own the later Magnepan 20.7s which have large oval wood base, (not the metal T shaped feet of old.) The speaker is up off the base by about a 1/2 inch. the brackets holding it up but to the base are thick aluminum castings, triangular support between the right angle brackets. The oval base of the 20.7 is 29" long axis, 15" wide axis, and about an inch thick. Pretty sure it is some sort of composite. ?? since it is painted, but is heavy...
The oval is why I am using a combo if 6" 12" and 18" length wood under it.
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What is the sound of the Cardas wood compared to the off-the-shelf wooden blanks?
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Rollo: for comment "metal feet" of Magnepans...
I own the later Magnepan 20.7s which have large oval wood base, (not the metal T shaped feet of old.) The speaker is up off the base by about a 1/2 inch. the brackets holding it up but to the base are thick aluminum castings, triangular support between the right angle brackets. The oval base of the 20.7 is 29" long axis, 15" wide axis, and about an inch thick. Pretty sure it is some sort of composite. ?? since it is painted, but is heavy...
The oval is why I am using a combo if 6" 12" and 18" length wood under it.
Nice. Did not know that. Mass helps.
charles
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BTW loving the Ebony Pen Blanks under the transformers.
charles
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The Cardas blocks are Myrtle wood.
Just another sort of wood.
Myrtle, Oregon Myrtle, California Bay Laurel, Pepperwood
Scientific Name: Umbellularia californica
Distribution: Coastal regions of southwest Oregon and central California
Tree Size: 50-80 ft (15-24 m) tall, 2-3 ft (.6-1 m) trunk diameter
Average Dried Weight: 40 lbs/ft3 (635 kg/m3)
Specific Gravity (Basic, 12% MC): .51, .63
Janka Hardness: 1,270 lbf (5,650 N)
Modulus of Rupture: 9,700 lbf/in2 (66.9 MPa)
Elastic Modulus: 1,225,000 lbf/in2 (8.45 GPa)
Crushing Strength: 5,640 lbf/in2 (38.9 MPa)
Shrinkage: Radial: 2.8%, Tangential: 8.1%, Volumetric: 11.9%, T/R Ratio: 2.9
(Source https://www.wood-database.com/ )
Sadly I never tried them nor any Myrtle Wood. So you would need to try them for yourself to see how they sound.
My own use the heavier the better seemed to be the rule
Basic if it is heavier than water.. IE sinks in water... heavy.
for example:
African blackwood, Mpingo (Swahili)
Scientific Name: Dalbergia melanoxylon
Distribution: Dry savanna regions of central and southern Africa
Tree Size: 20-30 ft (6-9 m) tall,
2-3 ft (.6-1.0 m) trunk diameter
Average Dried Weight: 79 lbs/ft3 (1,270 kg/m3)
Specific Gravity (Basic, 12% MC): 1.08, 1.27
Janka Hardness: 3,670 lbf (16,320 N)
Modulus of Rupture: 30,970 lbf/in2(213.6 MPa)
Elastic Modulus: 2,603,000 lbf/in2(17.95 GPa)
Crushing Strength: 10,570 lbf/in2(72.9 MPa)
Shrinkage: Radial: 2.9%, Tangential: 4.8%,
Volumetric: 7.7%, T/R Ratio: 1.7
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Years ago I was checking Craigslist freebies and lo and behold someone had a five foot section of bowling alley--maple, 2.5" thick!!! I picked it up and could barely lift it to get it in my truck, cut it up and have been using it ever since. But, I have tried many DIY tweaks with footers etc., and still have nothing but praise for biting the bullet and using IsoAcoustic products. They now sell (at high cost) butcher block with attached orea footers and I'm sure they sound great, but too pricey for me!