LS6/LS9 Tube or Solid State Amps ?

pmctexas · « **on:** 8 Jun 2011, 04:47 pm »

Looking for opinions - Do folks that are running LS6/LS9 prefer Tube or SS Amps ? What have you experienced ?
Thanks
Paul

nickd · « **Reply #1 on:** 8 Jun 2011, 05:13 pm »

Danny designed them using Dodd 50 watt tube amps I think.

I liked solid state on My LS9's. I had a pair of Krell FBP300MC's at the time that really got a grip on all those woofers and provided bass to die for. A real work out for my ears and the structure of my house too

I think quaility and the owner's taste is more important. It is a VERY revealing loudspeaker. use the best amp you can afford. The LS will not be the weak link in the chain.

Beatcoaster · « **Reply #2 on:** 9 Jun 2011, 05:10 am »

I run my LS6's with an Emotiva XPA-2 fed from an Integra DTC-9.8 on a daily basis. During a listening session one night after the last NW GTG, I got the opportunity to hear my pre and amp setup up against a Melody MK88 in my home...Let me just say that I was blown away by the sound comparison, within 30 seconds of listening I knew I was missing something during 2 channel music with my SS/digital setup. Granted Emotiva isn't that great compared to a lot of expensive amps and such, but it was the best I had heard up until this. The MK88 has so much power, the dial goes clockwise from about 7 and at about 9-10 we were done turning it up - it was plenty loud with power to spare. That was my first taste of tubes on my LS-6's, but wow, it made me wish I had $1500 that instant...

johnzm · « **Reply #3 on:** 9 Jun 2011, 03:37 pm »

you might just want to swap out the DTC, if you want to hear the biggest change in sound. in my experience those things sound horrible. the emo however isint actually too bad at all.

i heard ls6 with my gear and it was outstanding. i was running at the time odyssey mono extreme and a candela. i also know of a couple owners at least that have run odyssey mono's on theirs, with different preamps and had fantastic results.

kingdeezie · « **Reply #4 on:** 9 Jun 2011, 04:49 pm »

Tubes all the way.

A lot of people are obsessed with bass, and while I listen to a lot of rock and pop, everything is a compromise and sometimes you have to sacrifice a little of this for that.

It is true that with most tube amplifiers, except for the big big boys, like $20K+, you aren't going to get slamming bass control like with solid state.

However, slamming bass isn't everything. It is important to have a solid foundation, but the midrange and treble extension that you get from a good-great tube amplifier supercedes IMO the slight sacrifice in ultimate bass extension by going away from solid state.

The music is in the midrange; this is critical to get right to YOUR ears.

Like I said in your other post on the Odyssey forum, I have LS6s. I run them off Manley 250s and they sound awesome!

Better then the Pass Labs 250.5. A lot of people say Pass makes the best solid state amplifiers you can buy.

The BG Neos love da tubes.

Cheeseboy · « **Reply #5 on:** 9 Jun 2011, 05:29 pm »

Has anyone here tried a hybrid amp on their LS series speakers from GR? I've always thought that approach might render the best of both worlds. A tubed pre amp and hybrid amp could be the formula for good listening I would be curious to hear the AVA 550 and some others on these dynamic wonderkinds. Doesn't Gary Dodd make a hybrid amp these days? If these speakers were voiced with one of his tube amps upstream I just wonder what a hybrid from Dodd might do for them. The high current output section of solid state design with a tubed front end could be blissful with the LS speakers.

Hybrid anyone?

pmctexas · « **Reply #6 on:** 9 Jun 2011, 05:50 pm »

Great comments - Thanks all - If I go tube amp my budget tops at $3K so if anybody sees a deal that they think will sing with LS6 please let me know - So far I'm thinking Primaluna, Melody, and Mystere. Most Cary and Manley's are outside of budget (but one could dream)...

TomS · « **Reply #7 on:** 9 Jun 2011, 06:04 pm »

Quote from: pmctexas on 9 Jun 2011, 05:50 pm

Great comments - Thanks all - If I go tube amp my budget tops at $3K so if anybody sees a deal that they think will sing with LS6 please let me know - So far I'm thinking Primaluna, Melody, and Mystere. Most Cary and Manley's are outside of budget (but one could dream)...

You might want to look out for a resale pair of Dodd 120's which should easily fall into that budget.

sch · « **Reply #8 on:** 9 Jun 2011, 06:29 pm »

My personal "mix" has worked very well, at least to my ears. My LS-9s plus Dodd Battery tube pre-amp, PS Audio SS Amp and tubed Shanling CD player. The SS and tubes combination seems to work!!!

kingdeezie · « **Reply #9 on:** 9 Jun 2011, 06:59 pm »

Quote from: TomS on 9 Jun 2011, 06:04 pm

You might want to look out for a resale pair of Dodd 120's which should easily fall into that budget.

This is a great idea....

Also...

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstube&1312404427&/Rogue-Audio-M-180-Mono-Blocks

I know you stated 3K was your budget, but this guy is asking WAY to much.

He wants to sell quickly, but he is only offering 30 percent off of retail? We are in a recession, people are holding onto their money, used value is down.

Try and negotiate.

Cheeseboy · « **Reply #10 on:** 9 Jun 2011, 09:42 pm »

On the Solid State side of used I do know the LS can handle gobs of power and these have been described as very "Tube Like". The Cary 500mb have reviewed very well. One of the reviews covers a Q and A with the designer and how he "Voiced" these like their best tube mono blocks.

I know it sounds weird to say Cary and Solid State in the same breath.

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1310733967&/Cary-500MB-Monoblocks

500 watts no waiting. Alot of Magnapan owners like them.

Just sayin.

Cheeseboy · « **Reply #11 on:** 9 Jun 2011, 09:46 pm »

By the way the Rogues are a very good choice as well.

Anyone using a hybrid amp on the LS series?

S Clark · « **Reply #12 on:** 10 Jun 2011, 12:37 am »

Quote from: Cheeseboy on 9 Jun 2011, 09:46 pm

By the way the Rogues are a very good choice as well.

Anyone using a hybrid amp on the LS series?

I am. I have had an upgraded Moscode 300 on my LS9s for about year. I would occasionally swap out a 1961 vintage (but upgraded with Sonicaps) Knight-Kit KB85 to get sweeter mids, but the Moscode was close and has better bass. I just had a Moscode 401HR upgraded with Mundorfs-arrived today. I am hoping to keep the detail and warm the mids. Art Smuck had the 401HR combined with the LS9 and recommended it. I'll post back my impressions after it burns in a bit.

Scott

Cheeseboy · « **Reply #13 on:** 10 Jun 2011, 05:32 am »

Now that a hybrid right there. Moscode! What did you run before the Moscode?

I can't wait to hear about the upgrade.

S Clark · « **Reply #14 on:** 10 Jun 2011, 05:56 am »

Quote from: Cheeseboy on 10 Jun 2011, 05:32 am

Now that a hybrid right there. Moscode! What did you run before the Moscode?

I can't wait to hear about the upgrade.

There really was no "before" the Moscode. When I bought the LS9 kit, I had the vintage Knight that put out just over 30 wpc. I had been told by Danny that I would probably need more power, so I picked up the Moscode 300. Then I found a matching Knight, and they are switchable into mono- so I got bought it and got Gary Dodd to go through it. The two old Knights really do a nicely musical job, but the Moscode 300 controlled the bass better and added detail. So I started looking for a deal on a used 401HR. When I found one, it needed repair (intermittent solder joint), and while George Kaye had it he recommended the upgrade.

From what I have heard over the last few hours, the upgrades have clearly moved it up a notch, and I think that I have the amp I need for these speakers. Listening to "The Planets" by Holst, instruments separate in a way that I hadn't heard before, dynamics are DYNAMIC, and I found myself with goosebumps while listening. Goosebumps are just about as good as it gets for me. It's 1am, but the wife is out of town, so I think I'll go back and listen some more!

Cheeseboy · « **Reply #15 on:** 10 Jun 2011, 06:18 pm »

1 am is the Boggie hour. No matter what you are listening to at that time is louder than normal.

Is the Cap upgrade that you are referencing a standard in the new units? It sounds like it works.

Steve

S Clark · « **Reply #16 on:** 10 Jun 2011, 09:57 pm »

Apparently not, as George talked about doing that upgrade on a 402Au during our discussion. In addition to a dozen Mundorf Supreme Silver/Gold caps, he also changed out several resistors... uh... not Mundorf, not Mills.... damn I hate it when the short term memory goes. I'll let you know when it comes to me.
The upgrade wasn't exactly cheap, but I already had it there, and George threw in the resolder of the intermittant joints for free (they may have come out anyway). Regardless, it sounds extremely good, and I'm happy with the expenditure. The LS9s have never sounded so good in my living room. I am finally getting the sound that is comparable to hearing them in Danny's living room with his Big Blue amps.

nickd · « **Reply #17 on:** 10 Jun 2011, 11:08 pm »

Cheeseboy is on to somthing with the new Cary SS gear.

I just bought a new C-12 7.1 pre-pro. I gotta say I am blown away.

it is making me re-think both of my rigs (2 channel and 6.1 theater). It is good enough to cross over. The DAC and balanced pass through is amazing. I am most likely going to buy the cinema 7.125 amp and see where I go from there (805ae's or not). I don't need 500WPC anymore but if I did i would be leaning that direction.

Cheeseboy · « **Reply #18 on:** 11 Jun 2011, 01:50 am »

You're the guy with the Design Acoustic D12's. When I was in High School my best friend and I used to cut panels for Design Acoustics. I owned the D2 and the D6's. The D2 had the best midrange. My friends dad had the 12's. They made the floor jump with the down firing 12. Those LS 9's dwarf them.

If you find the reveiw on the Cary 500Mb you will get the 411 on the topology on the other Cinema solid state amps.

S Clark · « **Reply #19 on:** 11 Jun 2011, 02:35 am »

Quote from: Cheeseboy on 11 Jun 2011, 01:50 am

You're the guy with the Design Acoustic D12's. When I was in High School my best friend and I used to cut panels for Design Acoustics. I owned the D2 and the D6's. The D2 had the best midrange. My friends dad had the 12's. They made the floor jump with the down firing 12. Those LS 9's dwarf them.

I'm impressed. Cutting panels for a dodecahedron and making them actually fit seem like a daunting task. I suspect that the rigidity of the 12 sided box really helped the sound of the D12. It's really amazing that the old designers (George Sejolis??) put together decent products without the measurement systems that we have now- doing it by ear! To this day, the D-12's are very respectable on many types of music, and are actually pretty dang good on orchestral pieces. But they don't hold a candle to the LS9s.