[Merle]

I have a small system set up in a very small room and am thinking about replacing/upgrading my speakers. The room is small, around 10 x 11 foot. It is a dedicated listening room, acoustically treated with panels behind the speakers and on the back wall behind the listening position. This system is used mostly for vinyl. I'd say 90 / 10 lp's to cd's. Main interest is classical. Beyond that, pretty much everything, acoustic, blues, jazz, maybe some rock. Current system is as follows: Audio Refinement Complete integrated amp [50 wpc]. KAB modded Technics SL1200 with Ortofon 2M Black cartridge, lightly modded Jolida JD9 phono stage, cheapo Marantz cd player, and, last but not least, Totem Arro speakers. This is a very musical system but of course, I want it to be better. Would the Salk MBOW1 work well with this system in this small room? Is the 50 watt AR Complete a good match? I love the looks and concept of the SongTower but I believe it's a bit large for this little room. I want something special. The MBOW1 in one of Salk's beautiful wood finishes looks like it might meet the "special" requirement I'm looking for. Good match? Are there other Salk models that might work well in this type room and system? Thanks in advance for any advice or recommendations.

[DMurphy]

That is a small room.  But the physical size of the ST's is the only attribute that might be a little out of sync with your room proportions.  And they're really not that big once you factor in the lack of need for klutzy stands.  The sound isn't "bigger" than that of the MB0W1, etc., in the sense that it requires more room to blossom.  The only real differences are: 1) much higher sensitivity, so you don't need as much power, and 2) deeper bass response.  I can see the need to back off on bass capabilities in a small room if the woofer (s) will excite room resonances, but the ST's don't do that.  (The HT3's are another story.)  If you just want a smaller speaker on stands, then I prefer the CA0W1 slightly over the MB0W1.    BTW, is there anything in particular about the Totems that seems deficient?

[Merle]

Hi Dennis,
Do you really think something like the ST would work in a room this small? You asked me if anything about the Arro's seemed deficient. Actually, not really. They are a very nice size for this room. My thoughts were while the Arro's work well in this room, it would be nice to have something a bit special. Special as in lovingly hand crafted in the finest wood. Something not everyone has. Something that really stands out from the crowd. Something that can take this modest system to another level. Something like, you know, a beautiful handmade loudspeaker designed by you and painstakingly made by Jim Salk. I've seen no finer work anywhere. I could certainly live with the Arro's but I consider the Salk speakers to be a labor of love.

[Zero]

Merle,

I once had the pleasure of meeting the CAOW1 roughly two years ago. As expected, it was a great monitor. It's forefront attributes in my opinion were its great driver integration and the wonderful Hiquphon tweeter (something you too may like if you find the Arro's highs to be too aggressive for your tastes).

However, as much respect as I have for the CAOW 1, it will not take your system to another level, at least when it comes to raw performance. Each product will have its trade-off's - so as usual, it will boil right down to the trade-offs you prefer to live with more. I'd imagine that the Song Towers will give you more of what you are looking for. Fuller range - that whole hand crafted thing - and who knows, it may even sound better than the little Arro's!

Good luck!

[fsimms]

I concur that the SongTowers are fantastic for a small room.   The bass of the SongTowers doesn't excite the room nodes like most other speakers do.   If you plan to use them with a sub then please ignore my comments;)

[TomW16]

However, as much respect as I have for the CAOW 1, it will not take your system to another level, at least when it comes to raw performance. Each product will have its trade-off's - so as usual, it will boil right down to the trade-offs you prefer to live with more. I'd imagine that the Song Towers will give you more of what you are looking for.

I believe that the drivers for the SongTower and CAOW1 are the same so the sonic differences between the two speakers would be due to the base response (QWT cabinet) and sensitivity gained by the MTM configuration as Dennis mentioned.  Although I haven't listened to either speaker my assumption would be that both would sound very similar.

Cheers,
Tom

[Zero]

Hello Tom,

I believe you're right, hopefully Dennis will chime on in for ze' confirmation.

Since Merle is looking for 'special factor', I have to ask; why not go for a larger speaker that showcases a greater degree of 'cool factor', all while allowing for the 'special factor' to be displayed more prominently? Wait, did I say all of that right?  Greater frequency range, higher efficiency, higher power handling (a guess, but a safe one at that), feel good cosmetic flare (with the appropriate veneer, of course), it seems it would be a great match for what Merle is looking for considering his existing components, space, and where he wants to take things.

Later this week, I will begin the journey of actually having more of a qualified opinion on the Song Towers - as they should be arriving to my abode. 

 

[cdj]

While I cannot describe with the technical expertise others have, I can from experience say that the SongTowers work well in a small room.
Before buying mine, I contacted Jim about my problematic room, 11'x12' with 10' ceiling and no acoustical treatment other than carpeting and a sofa. He felt that I would have no problems with the bass even with the speakers only 12" from the wall. He was right!
The speakers are actually larger than I had expected (even though I knew the measurements) but fit the room quite well. I think being able to place the speakers close to the wall without ill effects allows them to be used in a smaller room than one would think possible.
I know that I couldn't be happier with mine. 

[jsalk]

I get quite a few calls and emails on this type of topic.  The person generally wants bookshelf speakers more appropriate to a small space.  But when you think about it, if you put a bookshelf speaker on a stand, the footprint required is not that much less than a pair of SongTowers.  Yet the SongTowers, with their transmission line cabinets are a higher performing speaker.  

In my mind, the SongTowers are a perfect speaker for a smaller room in that there are fewer issues with room modes compared to those with a ported design, stand-mounted speakers included.  Granted, small bookshelf speakers do not play as deep and may not excite room modes to the same extent, but their placement with respect to the rear walls appears to be more critical than with the Songtowers.

So, in my mind, the SongTowers are the perfect speaker for this application.

- Jim

[R Swerdlow]

Jim Salk posted just before I could and said it better than I can.  Despite that, I'll add my 2¢.

TomW16 said "I believe that the drivers for the SongTower and CAOW1 are the same so the sonic differences between the two speakers would be due to the base response (QWT cabinet) and sensitivity gained by the MTM configuration as Dennis mentioned.  Although I haven't listened to either speaker my assumption would be that both would sound very similar."  I have both the SongTower and the CAOW1 and TomW16 has it exactly right.

I would add that the quality of the bass response from the SongTowers' transmission line cabinet adds that "something extra" that Merle might be looking for.  It's difficult to put in words, but other SongTower owners are probably smiling and nodding their heads in agreement.  Once you learn what transmission line bass sounds like, you may never be satisfied with the other types of bass cabinets.

The TL bass plus the SongTowers' extra sensitivity (due to their MTM design) may contribute to their ability to sound great while played at low volume.  I continue to be pleased by the SongTowers' unexpected ability to image nicely while playing them at low volumes.  With all my previous speakers, they needed to be played loud before creating good images.

Although my SongTowers are not in a small room, I agree with comments from fsimms and cdj about how their SongTowers sound great in small rooms.

Zero – nice to hear of the impeding arrival of your SongTowers.  I know you'll enjoy them.

[Nuance]

Zero - congrats on the purchase!     I look forward to your impressions. 

Merle - I own a pair of SongTower's and, as of recent, have been playing with their room placement.  Initially I had them two feet from the rear wall and about two-three from the side wall (singular because there is no right wall next to the right speaker...weird room config).  My reasoning behind experimenting with placement was to find out for myself if the SongTower's were as placement friendly as everyone said they were.  Well, in short, they are very placement friendly.  I decided to move the ST's 12" from the rear wall to see if the in-room bass response would muddy up and become boomy, while at the same time negatively effecting the rest of the frequency response.  Much to my surprise the bass became a little more present without losing it's tightness and musicality, but more importantly, it didn't negatively impact the midrange or upper frequencies in the slightest.  The latter is what shocked me the most. 

Everyone's room and ears are different, but to these ears and in my room the SongTower's are very placement friendly.  Since toying with placement I have actually left the speakers 12" from the rear wall because I prefer a little more bass impact combined with no negative effects above 200Hz.  Bravo to Jim and Dennis for an amazing design!

I hope that helps.  I vote SongTower's all the way!   aa

[Merle]

All, thanks for the replys! I know it would be kind of silly to ask how the SongTowers compair to the Totem Arro's but does anyone have an opinion on running the SongTowers with the Audio Refinement Complete? I'm assuming the AR's 50wpc would be fine in such a small room, correct? I really do like the Arro's but I've always favored speakers with a fuller, warmer sound. I perfer my music to sound "beautiful" rather than "detailed/analytical". The Arro's can truly make beautiful music but they are not "romantic" sounding in any way. They are a bit forward, have very good tone and can really capture the soul of music on a good recording. Often with the Arro's, you tend to listen to and hear the speakers, thinking how well they perform. I guess I'm looking for something that when I listen, I'm thinking about the actual music as opposed to thinking about how good these speakers sound. I can get a lot of enjoyment from going home after work, putting on an LP and just drift away listening to the detail and beauty of the record. I'd probably rather come home, put on an LP and just get lost in how beautiful a particular piece of music sounds. Am I on the right track to this with the SongTowers? Oh yeah, love the fact that I could get them in walnut! I guess I'm saying that the Arro's, to me, sound like good hi-fi. I'm looking more for the beauty in the music itself.

[R Swerdlow]

All, thanks for the replys! I know it would be kind of silly to ask how the SongTowers compair to the Totem Arro's but does anyone have an opinion on running the SongTowers with the Audio Refinement Complete? I'm assuming the AR's 50wpc would be fine in such a small room, correct?

Yes, if your amp delivers an honest 50 wpc, it will be fine with the SongTowers.  That was the easy question.

Much harder to speculate, but probably the most important question, is how the SongTowers sound compared to the Arros.  Totem has a good reputation, but I haven't heard them.  Where do you live?  Maybe someone nearby has SongTowers, and you could visit them with your Arros and listen for yourself.  I am in Maryland, near Washington.

I read your comments about your preference in sounds.  I can't really say whether you will think the SongTowers sound warmer or less analytical than the Arros.  You need to hear them for yourself.

I like the SongTowers for their neutrality – they sound neither too warm nor too bright to me.  I also like their ability to create the illusion of imaging – the ability to make the musicians seem like they are sitting in the same room as I am.  I can't guess how that fits in with your preferences.

Jim's veneers and finishes are superb.  I assure you they look MUCH better in person than in his photos.  My STs are cherry, but it's safe to guess that walnut will also look spectacular.

[DMurphy]

I'm going to have to second Richard's comments about your having to make up your own mind about the Song Tower's sonic signature.  I hunted around the Internet a bit last night looking for reviews and measurements of the Totems, and both the comments and the plots suggested that the Arrows would have a somewhat laid back character in the lower highs.  This hasn't been your reaction, so it's hard to say what you would make of the ST's.  It's possible that you are reacting to a possibly lean bass balance in the Arrows (and perhaps a tileted up response at the very high end), and this would certainly be corrected in the ST's.  The bass is quite full, and I think this prevents them from sounding overly analytical.  But my goal here, as in other designs, was neutrality, focus and openness.  Whether that's consistent with your goal of "romantic" is something I think you should judge during the 30-day home trial.

[Zero]

Richard, Naunce -  Thanks for the congrats, but I am merely reviewing the Song Towers! Of course, who is to say the experience won't ultimately result in me forking the green..   

Merle - Once the Song Towers arrive, I will have the chance to compare them directly to the Totem Sttaf (more comparable to the Song Towers price range) and the Totem Forest ( a bit beyond the Song Towers price range). It should be lots of fun!

[R Swerdlow]

Richard, Naunce -  Thanks for the congrats, but I am merely reviewing the Song Towers! Of course, who is to say the experience won't ultimately result in me forking the green..   

Another reviewer… I should have noticed the fine print in your signature line .  The other two professional reviews of the SongTowers have BOTH declared them superior to their prior reference speakers.  No pressure…

Merle - Once the Song Towers arrive, I will have the chance to compare them directly to the Totem Sttaf (more comparable to the Song Towers price range) and the Totem Forest ( a bit beyond the Song Towers price range). It should be lots of fun!

That would be a truly worthwhile service.  I’ll look forward to reading your results.

[DMurphy]

Richard, Naunce -  Thanks for the congrats, but I am merely reviewing the Song Towers! Of course, who is to say the experience won't ultimately result in me forking the green..   

Merle - Once the Song Towers arrive, I will have the chance to compare them directly to the Totem Sttaf (more comparable to the Song Towers price range) and the Totem Forest ( a bit beyond the Song Towers price range). It should be lots of fun!

"Zero," huh.   Interesting choice for a reviewer.   Is that on a 5-point scale?    Will you be getting the dome or ribbon tweet version?  Hope it's the ribbon.   

[Zero]

Richard,

Hell, it's getting to the point to where you can't even turn over a rock without finding a reviewer.   I look forward to flirting with the Song Towers a bit.  Although direct comparisons between a consumer direct product with something more mainstream should be done with respect to the stark differences in business models - it's nonetheless very interesting to see what each product brings to the table. According to Fed Ex, tomorrow is the day. Now it's just a matter of wrapping up this Mark and Daniel review and I'll be free to play until my hearts content.  . After I gain something of a meaningful impression, I'll post a few of my observations here.

Dennis,

"Zero" has been my tag since the teenage years.  It means different things to different people.  Sometimes that's a good thing, and other times... well...      I will be receiving the soft dome version.  Deep down I wanted to try the ribbon (as I have something of a self admitted bias towards a well done ribbon) - but I decided to go with the dome version simply because of its wider net appeal and lower price point.

[Nuance]

Richard, Naunce -  Thanks for the congrats, but I am merely reviewing the Song Towers! Of course, who is to say the experience won't ultimately result in me forking the green..   

Merle - Once the Song Towers arrive, I will have the chance to compare them directly to the Totem Sttaf (more comparable to the Song Towers price range) and the Totem Forest ( a bit beyond the Song Towers price range). It should be lots of fun!

Oops - I too missed the fine print.  Sorry about that.   

Nonetheless, I look forward to your review!

[Zero]

Well folks, the SongTowers (en walnut) arrived this afternoon.  I must say that I am very impressed with the attention to packaging detail, literature, and all the other extra goodies included with the Song Towers. Of course, it's no secret that Jim's craftsmanship is first rate...they look fantastic!    I took a quick snapshot of a Song Tower sat to the Totem Acoustic Sttaf..  The difference is quite laughable! Pardon the extremely crappy picture..  I wasn't going for accurate color/tone..  just to capture the differences in size;