AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Well Tempered Lab => Topic started by: sebrof on 17 Dec 2015, 02:26 pm
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Hello guys, looking for a new cartridge to put on my Amadeus MKII. $1,000 budget.
Currently running an Ortofon Rondo Red LOMC and like it a lot. But it's Christmas time and, well. You know.
I have a Klyne 6PE phono preamp which can handle most any cartridge with all it's gain and loading options.
The Dynavector 20X2 is an obvious candidate, or a better Ortofon since I like the ones I have owned.
My dealer also suggested a Grado wood body (Master), and mentioned it may be a good choice for that arm because of the stylus. Any issues you have experienced or would expect with Shibata/fine line styli considering there's no offset adjustment on the Amadeus arm?
TIA
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Help us out a little more. What are you looking for? Dyna and Grado have pretty different voicing. And genres you listen to?
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The DV 20XL2 works well with WTL. It was the first cartridge I had fitted to my Versalex. Nice improvements will follow if you then move up the DV range.
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The DV 20XL2 works well with WTL. It was the first cartridge I had fitted to my Versalex. Good all rounder. Nice improvements will follow if you then move up the DV range.
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I use Grado Ref Sonata with Amadeus, great sound, no issues
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There's also a big thread on the AT ART 9 on Aydiogon. Lots of raves
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I with Dynavector DV20X2H I am fine and mates perfectly with the shell and the Allen screws are screwed directly into the cartridge body.
The Dyna seems made for WTL :D
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Help us out a little more. What are you looking for? Dyna and Grado have pretty different voicing. And genres you listen to?
Fair question, not sure if I have a good answer.
Definitely want something different than the Ortofon I have. The new cart won't necessarily replace the Ortofon but be another option for a different flavor. I haven't tried a lot of carts so I don't have a feel for the differences between brands or types.
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The Grados look interesting, and from what I've read it is a warmer more laid back sound than the Ortofon LOMC.
The Art9 is also interesting. I read the AGon thread and several others and people really like it. AT was not a brand that was on my radar.
And the obvious choice considering the relationship between WTL and DV is the 20X2. Can anyone describe the sound of that cartridge,
Thanks for the recs, much appreciated
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And the obvious choice considering the relationship between WTL and DV is the 20X2. Can anyone describe the sound of that cartridge,
Google. There are more reviews/comments on that cart, both pro and user, than you can read in a day. I know, I've done it as I own both the HO and LO versions.
I think the online chatter is accurate, and you will get a very good feel for its flavor.
PS: while the 20X may not suit everyone perfectly, it attracts universal praise (respect at a minimum) and finding an outright negative comment will be difficult. It is a great all arounder.
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http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/dynavector/1.html
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Thanks guys. I did read a lot of what is written online about the DV 20X2, pretty much all good.
I called my dealer and he said he's expecting some 20X2 low outputs coming in next week. Just may be my next cartridge.
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I use Grado Ref Sonata with Amadeus, great sound, no issues
I also have this combination. Works well and sounds great with downstream electronics. Thinking about moving up the Grado food chain.
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The Dynavector 20, of course. The 17d needs proper matching and expert setup.
Those Grados need to go. Those are for beginners. Oops, there I go again.
Ok, not to be an ass, if you're thinking something like a Grado, go for the Cartridge Man. Far far better than a Grado. I think there's also a Nagaoka in that range. Very nice also.
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The Dynavector 20, of course. The 17d needs proper matching and expert setup.
Yes, the 20 seems to be the consensus. I didn't realize that about the 17d and I was considering that one.
Ok, not to be an ass,
Too late!! :green: Just joking.
My firsts carts way back when were Grados. I recently gave my son a Black for my old "bought in High School" table and he loves the setup. I have never heard their higher end cartridges, but from what people say about their sound I believe I would enjoy them.
The point I tried to make and obviously failed was that (according to a dealer) the Grado would be a theoretical match for the Amadeus because the Grado's stylus is such that it is more forgiving of alignment, since the arm has not provision to adjust.
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This would only apply if you got a used bargain (as I did) but I've just fitted a lightly used Koetsu Red Signature to my Amadeus GTA. I had many doubts about this pairing but the cartridge was cheap enough for me to take a risk and sell on if it didn't work out. The result is stunningly good. Two friends have listened now (a Troika owner and a DV XX-2 owner). Both were staggered at how good the cartridge is (and all three of us were sceptical).
If you enjoy the 'natural' sounds of acoustic jazz and classical, it is especially relevant.
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The Dynavector 20, of course. The 17d needs proper matching and expert setup.
Those Grados need to go. Those are for beginners. Oops, there I go again.
Ok, not to be an ass, if you're thinking something like a Grado, go for the Cartridge Man. Far far better than a Grado. I think there's also a Nagaoka in that range. Very nice also.
I've tried the Dynavector 17d2mk2, many times in several different arms. I prefer both versions of the 20x. While the 17d is very airy, detailed and ethereal up top, it always sounds thin and lightweight to me. Its detailed sound impresses initially, but I tire of it rather quickly. Plenty of air and space, but not enough meat on the bone. I much prefer the denser and more slammin, weighty and colorful presentation of the 20x. Of course, these are my preferences, and others will prefer the 17d. It would probably work well in a rig that is balanced towards thick, dark and slow or appeal to those that favor its attributes and priorities. Also, the 17d's tiny cantilever of 1.7mm is a bitch to see and setup!
I heartily second the recommendation for the Cartridge Man Music Maker mk3 cartridge. Not well known here in the states, but man, what a cartridge! Strapped onto my Hadcock 242 arm (combined with the Cartridge Man Isolator) it is one seriously good music making machine! The presentation is deep, detailed, palpable, toney, and oh-so-natural, and most important of all, hugely immersive and musical. Probably the best arm / cartridge combo I've personally experienced in my own rig. And I've tried more than a few. (Table is Eurolab (Scheu) Premier mk2)
Of course, I have no idea how the MM3 would gel on your WT arm. It looks similar to the Hadcock in that both are unipivot, and spindly kindof lightweight (apparently?) metallic affairs, and both depart from traditional arm design approaches. But beyond that, I know zilch about the WT arm. I do know the MM3 prefers light to medium arms, no more than 13g effective mass. And it has a very narrow VTF range in which it really sings, around 1.58 g, give or take .05g. Its healthy output allows it to be used without the added expense and complication of a SUT. And to my ear, it sounds as open and airy as any MC I've ever heard. I will say upfront, my personal playground has mostly been HO MM and MC, but I have heard LO MC in other rigs.
Google to find all the positive comments, mostly pro reviews.
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Edit to above:
To be fair to the 17d2, I only used it w/ the SUT built into my Juicy Music Tercel phono stage, Jensen I believe. It matches the 17d2 fine in terms of gain and what Dyna recommends for loading, but I suppose it is possible that it's not the ideal sonic match, for whatever reason , and another SUT might allow it to strut better.
I have no way of knowing, as I tried no other SUT. Just wanted to add this comment for completeness.
I'll just add that the LO 20x (same mfr, same rec'd loading) sounds just fine into the same SUT.
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The Dynavector 20, of course. The 17d needs proper matching and expert setup.
Those Grados need to go. Those are for beginners. Oops, there I go again.
Ok, not to be an ass, if you're thinking something like a Grado, go for the Cartridge Man. Far far better than a Grado. I think there's also a Nagaoka in that range. Very nice also.
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/1107/cartridge_man_music_maker_iii.htm
Interesting the original cartridge man design is based on discontinued Grado Signature according to this article. No doubt modifications continue to be made. It would be instructive to run a side by side comparison of the MKiii and a current Grado Reference.
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Yeh, Len Gregory (the Cartridge Man) bought up all the excess stock of a discontinued cheap Grado model and significantly modifies them. Apparently, all that remains from the original is the cheap plastic body. Internals, cantilever and stylus are all new.
It looks really cheap and flimsy, but sure doesn't sound that way. Nor does it sound like any Grado I've ever heard. Much more open and neutral, less colored, better balanced across the range, esp at the extremes. It posesses a beautiful and lucid midrange, and very tight tuneful bass - not lumpy or indistinct or overblown like Grado can be.
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Why not upgrade your phone preamp and or SUT or do you feel your Klyne 6PE phono preamp is getting the most out of your Ortofon Rondo Red? Any reason why you did not go the SUT route?
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Why not upgrade your phone preamp and or SUT or do you feel your Klyne 6PE phono preamp is getting the most out of your Ortofon Rondo Red? Any reason why you did not go the SUT route?
I think the Klyne is a pretty good phono stage, worlds better than a couple of phonos in the $1,000 range that I owned or tried.
No reason why I haven't tried a SUT except that I don't need one with the Klyne.
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Hey Sebrof...... Dunno if you're still looking, but here's a brand new Dyna 20X2H for about half your budget. VG price, buy yourself a Christmas present! :thumb:
https://app.audiogon.com/listings/cartridges-dynavector-dv-20x2h-2015-12-24-analog-l0r-1k0
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Hey Sebrof...... Dunno if you're still looking, but here's a brand new Dyna 20X2H for about half your budget. VG price, buy yourself a Christmas present! :thumb:
https://app.audiogon.com/listings/cartridges-dynavector-dv-20x2h-2015-12-24-analog-l0r-1k0
That looks like a great deal, thanks for letting me know.
Turns out that a friend of mine built a really nice linestage and offered to sell it to me for a great price. I couldn't pass it up. All my Christmas budget (and a little more) got spent.
But I know what I'll buy when it's time to upgrade my cart. Hey, my birthday is right around the corner.
Thanks to all for the help!
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The Dynavector 20, of course. The 17d needs proper matching and expert setup.
Those Grados need to go. Those are for beginners. Oops, there I go again.
Ok, not to be an ass, if you're thinking something like a Grado, go for the Cartridge Man. Far far better than a Grado. I think there's also a Nagaoka in that range. Very nice also.
I tend to be a contrarian (no surprise - after all, I do own an Amadeus), so I ignored your advice and bought a Grado Reference Master over the holidays. It's the last rev that looks like a cricket coffin, not the new version that just came out. It replaces the Reference Sonata I have been using. I ran across the old sales receipt several weeks ago and was surprised to learn it's been in service for 4.5 years already. Figuring 6-8 hours use weekly puts it at 1350-1800 hours use.
The cart swap was uneventful and I took the opportunity to re-level the table and dial in VTF, current at 1.58 grams. BTW, I use Allen key screws which make installation much easier than slotted screws.
So I have break-in ahead of me. Already I notice more dynamic presentation and improved 3D presentation. More later.
I plan to keep the Reference Sonata, might have SoundSmith retip it or put in new cantilever/stylus.
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G.E. I'm interested in your further impressions. I have a Ref Sonata and am also thinking of moving up the Grado chain to one of the low output models. There is absolutely no "Grado hum" with this table. I did experience some difficulty in mounting it to the WTA Mk2 head in that the screw holes seemed a little tight-to the point that I worried about damaging the head of the arm holding to tighten the screws. This was such an issue that its made me reconsider going with a Grado wood body in the future.
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G.E. I'm interested in your further impressions. I have a Ref Sonata and am also thinking of moving up the Grado chain to one of the low output models. There is absolutely no "Grado hum" with this table. I did experience some difficulty in mounting it to the WTA Mk2 head in that the screw holes seemed a little tight-to the point that I worried about damaging the head of the arm holding to tighten the screws. This was such an issue that its made me reconsider going with a Grado wood body in the future.
I am very pleased withe upgrade. All of the attributes of the Sonata are further refined. I experience more of what I call "master tape epiphanies" with the Reference Master. No tracking problems whatsoever.
Needle Doctor has one low output version remaining of the older v1 on close out. They sent an email today about it.
I had no issues with the cart installation. Allen head style screws make it easy.
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There's also a big thread on the AT ART 9 on Aydiogon. Lots of raves
Reviving my old thread.
A year later and a new end of year upgrade budget. I got an Audio Technica Art-9 a few weeks ago. I have about 40 hours on it now and I am very happy with it. Of course, I don't know how it would compare to any of the other suggestions (thanks, y'all) but I believe that for the $929 for this cartridge I did well.
Much more clarity than the Ortofon Rondo Red it replaced, much more dynamic and a wider soundstage. Just better all around. I think I'm set for a while.
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Reviving my old thread.
A year later and a new end of year upgrade budget. I got an Audio Technica Art-9 a few weeks ago. I have about 40 hours on it now and I am very happy with it. Of course, I don't know how it would compare to any of the other suggestions (thanks, y'all) but I believe that for the $929 for this cartridge I did well.
Much more clarity than the Ortofon Rondo Red it replaced, much more dynamic and a wider soundstage. Just better all around. I think I'm set for a while.
In December I bought a second Grado reference master on close out. It is the last generation "cricket coffin" version. I even got a $75 credit for sending in my old reference sonata.
I run my table maybe 8-10 hours on weekends, about 400 hours annually.
I plan to swap out the carts and run the new one to make sure it isn't defective. Then when it is worn out I'll put the original back on. I figure i am set for five years with this plan.
There is a lot of magic generated by my system and it all starts with the Grado. Immense sound stage, lots of air and sparkle and 3D imaging. I played some hi rez digital last night; nice bombast and slam but lifeless in comparison to analog. I may cull my sacd/DVD-a collection....
I've thought about moving up the Hagerman line of phono preamps to his Violin or Trumpet models. But no rush. That Cornet2 I built is doing me very well.
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I know the tread is rather old, but still interesting :-) Are there anyone who have tried out Linn Adikt for the GTA ?