AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Cheap and Cheerful HiFi => Topic started by: JeffB on 30 May 2015, 08:11 am
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I was at The Show in Newport Beach today and was surprised to find
Andrew Jones demonstrating a new line of speakers.
He has left Pioneer and has designed a new budget line of speakers for Elac.
He was demonstrating a new bookshelf (the B5).
I must say that it sounded fantastic and will have an MSRP of $229 a pair.
In all, it looks like there will be two bookshelf models, one with a 5" cone and one with a 6" cone,
a tower speaker model, and 3 different sub-woofer models. Two of the sub-woofer models have
built in room correction and an IPad app to configure them.
I felt that most people in the room were shocked by the quality to price ratio.
Elac is shooting for a September release. Andrew Jones says he has spent
only 3 months on these, including custom designing all the drivers.
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http://elac.us/speakers
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Did he happen to say if he will design a flagship?
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Thanks for the heads up, do like the idea of room EQ on the subwoofer apps, but full of questions:
- Why would Jones leave Harmon/JBL to go to ELAC?
- Why offer a 5 inch and a 6 inch 2-way of nearly the same (very average) specifications?
- Why offer a tower with nearly the specifications as stand-mounts?
- Why offer subs that require a mobile app to set up (no controls on the cabinet)?
- Specifications for the subs are not impressive (F3 of 28 - 35 Hz) and incomplete (spl at what frequency)?
- Is the S10 a pass band sub or have they chosen to only show the fancied up port side?
jtwrace: after $$$$$ Tannoys what would constitute a "flagship" ELAC??
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- Why offer subs that require a mobile app to set up (no controls on the cabinet)?
I think it's a great idea! Good chance of most people getting a good result and no extra hardware needed.
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Thanks for the heads up, do like the idea of room EQ on the subwoofer apps, but full of questions:
- Why would Jones leave Harmon/JBL to go to ELAC?
- Why offer a 5 inch and a 6 inch 2-way of nearly the same (very average) specifications?
- Why offer a tower with nearly the specifications as stand-mounts?
- Why offer subs that require a mobile app to set up (no controls on the cabinet)?
- Specifications for the subs are not impressive (F3 of 28 - 35 Hz) and incomplete (spl at what frequency)?
- Is the S10 a pass band sub or have they chosen to only show the fancied up port side?
jtwrace: after $$$$$ Tannoys what would constitute a "flagship" ELAC??
Andrew left Pioneer/Technical Audio Devices (TAD) for I'm sure personal and business reasons and not anything to do with competency. It's TAD's loss and ELAC's gain. Hopefully he'll be able to design state of the art at ELAC as well. Looking forward to it, he's at least a designer who understands the engineering and psych acoustics involved in designing a loudspeaker to perform in a ROOM unlike the others who just spew marketing gobbledygook...how their latest cabinet wall material is the next best thing, etc...! Andrew has never been afraid to bare it all (i.e. the measurements) for all to see.
A big cheers to his new collaboration.
JLM, do understand that these new designs are 'budget' designs and I'm sure Andrew was constrained by the marketing department. The differences between Andrew will lie in the crossover and waveguide implementations, compared to others. I know marketing was involved because any designer will tell you that an MTM based center channel will exhibit horizontal off axis errors, comb filtering, etc...Andrew knows that. I'm sure an upgraded version (at higher cost) will have a 5 inch mid/waveguide tweeter, flanked by a pair of 6 inch woofers. That's the way to design a center that has to 'fit' into a *horizontal* box.
The S10 appears to be just a simple ported sub, not band pass; judging from the specs.
Best,
Anand.
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I think it's a great idea! Good chance of most people getting a good result and no extra hardware needed.
Not to mention the convenience of adjusting EQ from your listening position.
For a long time mid-fier, it's refreshing to see some interesting non-esoteric, affordable products garner attention that sound good (esp. for the money).
Lately this place has started getting a wee bit too hi-end for my budget. Nice to see some down to earth offerings.
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I know/understand the value of the features in the mobile app in this case and do appreciate them, but begrudge not having controls on the cabinet itself. In general I prefer full cabinet based control with convenience features on the remote. Like losing/breaking a remote, what happens when the app/phone dies or you lose/replace your phone and find out that the app is no longer available? Just a dinosaur trying to live through the next mass extinction event.
IMO EQ is icing on the cake, the last step in proper setup, and should (especially for the sake of fried amps/blown drivers) never be overdone. Am leery that most mid-fi folks would appreciate that.
Yes, I'm a fan of Andrew too. Hope the market finds him at ELAC (don't know anything about the company).
And am a fan of accessibly priced gear too.
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jtwrace: after $$$$$ Tannoys what would constitute a "flagship" ELAC??
Cost means very little in this example. It's the design and then the execution that means something. This is something that Andrew Jones has a proven track record with. ELAC has a great track record too with the construction. I did hear their 249BE and was impressed. However, it's not an Andrew designed speaker and that s what I want to see/hear what he does at ELAC.
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Was Andrew Jones actually an employee of Pioneer? I was always under the impression that they just contracted with him to design equipment and that he was free to work for whoever he chose, so for example, if another company wanted to use his services they could.
Anyone know the true story?
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Was Andrew Jones actually an employee of Pioneer? I was always under the impression that they just contracted with him to design equipment and that he was free to work for whoever he chose, so for example, if another company wanted to use his services they could.
Anyone know the true story?
He was an employee of TAD.
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They look nice. Wouldn't mind considering the bookshelves for the office.
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Yes, I'm a fan of Andrew too. Hope the market finds him at ELAC (don't know anything about the company).
And am a fan of accessibly priced gear too.
ELAC is from Germany - some of their products
http://www.elac.com/en/products/
I also would like to see more on the back of the Debut subs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvFVmjioDac
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The sub interface is kind of different.
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The prices of the subs are pretty reasonable too.
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The B5 speakers that Andrew was showing today at the Newport Show are nothing short of amazing. I visited 3 or 4 times because I was in denial about the cost. When I heard the gentleman running the room yesterday say $229, I thought to myself oh he must have meant $2029. Andrew was a great host and I swear every time I was in there at least 4 or 5 people would ask "where's the subwoofer?"
The term punching well above its weight definitely applies to these speakers. I'm getting a pair when they come out just for fun because I still can't believe what I heard at that price point. Very musical, engaging, and dynamic. Absolutely incredible...
That's good to hear. From the earlier post in the thread I was looking at those for the office and wondering if they cost too much.
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That's good to hear. From the earlier post in the thread I was looking at those for the office and wondering if they cost too much.
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Cool, I can't wait to see what AJ comes up with given a larger budget! He's a genuinely nice and humble guy, his work with TAD has produced some of the best speakers, if not THE best speakers in the world, imo.
I wonder what's up with him leaving Pioneer though, they have to have some of the best resources in the world for developing speakers... those TAD beryllium drivers were made in house, this isn't something most speaker companies are capable of.
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I wonder what's up with him leaving Pioneer though, they have to have some of the best resources in the world for developing speakers... those TAD beryllium drivers were made in house, this isn't something most speaker companies are capable of.
Except maybe Elac ;-)
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These bookshelf speakers were truly amazing for $229.
I was blown away. I spent quite some time with both Andrew and Chris, and they have great plans for the future with ELAC.
I will be following this closely for sure.
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These bookshelf speakers were truly amazing for $229.
I was blown away. I spent quite some time with both Andrew and Chris, and they have great plans for the future with ELAC.
I will be following this closely for sure.
What is the plan for the future? Flagship?
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I thought I had heard they want to develop their own electronics to match their speakers price/performance.
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Between now and 2017 they are planning to release several lines up to and including flagship speakers.
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I can't wait to see what they come up with. :D
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A preview review of the ELAC B5 speaker here - it looks like a good one.
And, some insight on future plans.
http://www.stereophile.com/content/tom-norton-trade-day
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Flagship and $500+ subs don't fit C&C, but I really like how they designed the EQ. Was worried how the non calibrated wireless devices would be accurately used. Not a total solution for sub setup, but very nice.
And the subs still lack complete/impressive low end specifications (heck my single driver speakers match their F3) or outputs.
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I sent them an email asking where (and when) B5 speakers can be purchased. They are probably going to be ideal for the desktop for me.
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Andrew said yesterday they will probably be available sometime in September. It really is the one speaker I can't get out of my head from the show.
Did he say if they're being made in Germany or China?
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Andrew said yesterday they will probably be available sometime in September. It really is the one speaker I can't get out of my head from the show.
That's fine. The B&W LM-1s I have on the desktop now will eventually be moved for surround duties in a spare system in an Atmos/DTS:X set-up. That won't happen before September.
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Did he say if they're being made in Germany or China?
That I don't know. Didn't think to ask and I didn't hear any mention of it. Andrew was asked about not going with a curved cabinet like the little Pioneer bookshelves and he said going square saved money that went towards better drivers.
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Did he say if they're being made in Germany or China?
It would be hard to imagine that a pair of $200 - $300 retail speakers could be manufactured in Germany or North America.
Steve
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It really is the one speaker I can't get out of my head from the show.
I agree, for me it was between this speaker and its value for the money, and the VR-55 and how absolutely incredible it performed.
I will be doing business with both of them. I am really excited to see what Andrew comes up with over the coming year.
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I was in the ELAC room as well. When the music started, jaws dropped. Other manufactures and dealers were very complimentary to him. He did mention that the would be built in China. Was impressed how he worked hard to keep the room on a very affordable level. From the lowest end cables to basic Bel Canto amp. I want those speakers as well. Well chosen demo tuns as well. The bass out of them was astounding. Bravo.
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Andrew said yesterday they will probably be available sometime in September. It really is the one speaker I can't get out of my head from the show.
I had the same impression from the tiny Napa system: $600 for a tube pre/solid state power integrated with very small speakers nicely filling a good sized room with some of the best sound we heard all day at Axpona 2015 (better than the KEF LS50 next door).
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I had the same impression from the tiny Napa system: $600 for a tube pre/solid state power integrated with very small speakers nicely filling a good sized room with some of the best sound we heard all day at Axpona 2015 (better than the KEF LS50 next door).
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Question: Anyone ask if this is an actual production version? Given that it will be on the market in Sept, I wonder if this is possibly a demo unit custom made to similar specs but perhaps, better than actual production models. Time will tell I guess but just wondering.
UL
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Some of Andrews thoughts, a great video:
https://youtu.be/QK5fKs1-Abg
Thanks to jtwrace for finding this video!
Best,
Anand.
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Great vid, thanks. I'm going to have to find a local dealer for these.
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Wow on the sub calibration at the end. As he was talking, I wasn't sure how that could be done until he actually articulated their technique. Very impressive out of the box thinking.
Some of Andrews thoughts, a great video:
https://youtu.be/QK5fKs1-Abg
Thanks to jtwrace for finding this video!
Best,
Anand.
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Really like what they are doing with sub calibration. Wonder how this would work with multiple subs?
Great video find!
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here is an article (PDF ) as news from the Elac website
http://www.elac.de/en/tests_and_news/News/2015/06/Andrew_Jones.php
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Great info on the video... I'm looking forward to hearing these speakers some day as I'm now in a bookshelf speaker mode of life.
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Makes a big difference the electronics used also.
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I own his Pioneer Floorstanders in my "reference " system , lol.... Along with his 8inch sub. I will say that this man is a genius at creating speakers. He gets some pretty stunning sound out of inexpensive speakers. Put on a great recording , close you eyes, you probably would think the sound is coming out of speakers costing thousands. I use this set up mostly for hometheater use, but if I play, " Keith Don't Go," you would be stunned. :thumb: I would like to add a second sub or a larger sub for movies , although this little eight inch may be enough for most people .
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$300 speakers being driven by a $3000 source targeting the younger generation to get them interested... :scratch:
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$300 speakers being driven by a $3000 source targeting the younger generation to get them interested... :scratch:
I remember Andrew saying he wanted to show what was possible with these speakers when he "debuted" them at Newport.
I had a pair of the Pioneer BS22's and at one time put them in my main system at home and they sounded just as good as my $2300 speakers I had at the time. Then I took them to work and used a Lepai amp and they still sounded great.
I think the point was they respond to what's being fed which isn't always the case with $300 speakers.
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It was announced last year that Pioneer was leaving the home audio and video market in order to concentrate on car audio and telematics. It was announced that Pioneer home AV would go to Onkyo whiile the DJ line was to go to a US based holding company. TAD was not mentioned in the Asia Nikkei article but TAD may have been affected as well.
I'm very happy that Andrew has found a new home. I'm sure he doesn't remember me but we met a couple of years ago in Tokyo. He left an excellent impression on me. Hard not to like a guy who, you can obviously see, really loves his work.
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It was announced last year that Pioneer was leaving the home audio and video market in order to concentrate on car audio and telematics. It was announced that Pioneer home AV would go to Onkyo whiile the DJ line was to go to a US based holding company. TAD was not mentioned in the Asia Nikkei article but TAD may have been affected as well.
I believe TAD is an independent entity and was not bought by Onkyo, according to Andrew in that (too) long Scott Wilkinson interview for Home Theater Geeks.
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It was announced last year that Pioneer was leaving the home audio and video market in order to concentrate on car audio and telematics. It was announced that Pioneer home AV would go to Onkyo whiile the DJ line was to go to a US based holding company. TAD was not mentioned in the Asia Nikkei article but TAD may have been affected as well.
I'm very happy that Andrew has found a new home. I'm sure he doesn't remember me but we met a couple of years ago in Tokyo. He left an excellent impression on me. Hard not to like a guy who, you can obviously see, really loves his work.
I read the same article and am surprised that Pioneer is still putting out new home AV receiver & blu ray models even into 2015. They still have their own independent website as well. Wonder what gives. Prefer to see Pioneer carry on than Onkyo.....
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http://elac.us/speakers/ (http://elac.us/speakers/)
My HT mains blew out and I placed an order for a pair of F5 as replacement. Just to keep the voices even I also ordered the C5.
I got an email today which informs me that most goods have arrived at the designated US port but clearing custom is taking time because it's a first time importing process for the company. Won't be too long before they start shipping.
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http://elac.us/speakers/ (http://elac.us/speakers/)
My HT mains blew out and I placed an order for a pair of F5 as replacement. Just to keep the voices even I also ordered the C5.
I got an email today which informs me that most goods have arrived at the designated US port but clearing custom is taking time because it's a first time importing process for the company. Won't be too long before they start shipping.
I hope to hear them tomorrow!
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Well Jason, I suggest you go early because the Elac room has been really crowded/packed at other shows. I heard them at the San Francisco show and was quite impressed for the money. I kind of get the feeling that there is only one working pair and that Andrew was using these for all the shows. I hope with the actual release in about a week, the speakers that are shipped sound as good as the ones Andrew has been showing at the shows.
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Andrew did a great job with those.
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=129732)
I got my B5's today, just a little review, so I'm making it simple. I am a simple man, so I play a simple tune.... Okay, I got into the Hi Res thing in the beginning of the year, I have a little bit of money I listen to Leo Leporte and he reviewed the Fii0 X1, I got interested and bought the little dac player and a pair of headphones (Audio-technia ATH-M50x), I bought music from HDTracks.com and got blown away, couldn't believe the sound I was missing. Then, I listened to Andrew Jones on Twit with Scott Wilkerson (Home Theater Geeks) and when I had the chance, I pre-ordered the B5s. I couldn't afford a Dac receiver, so I bought Lapai LP2020A+ with a 12v5a power adapter. The difference I could hear between the B5 and my ATH-M50X headphones is big too me. It is easily detailed by me listening to the Beach Boys album (Pet Sounds) that I purchased via HDTracks. When I purchased this album last week, I wasn't very happy with the sound, I mean you could hear the difference but it wasn't what I was expecting. Well, when I got the B5s, I wanted to go directly to this Beach Boy album..... Much Better!!! It's close to feeling like your in the studio. Maybe next year I can figure out what Dac receiver to buy and I'd really like to change my whole surround sound system, so we'll see. Thanks Andrew Jones, Chris Walker and the entire Elac Team. Now I'm into Real HD-Audio. :D
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Nice review, clear and concise. Welcome to AC and the Cheap & Cheerful circle. I do not need any new speakers, but these have got me interested in a way the Pioneer BS22's didn't. I think I remember that they have a couple of dealers listed not too far from me, but can't find the site that listed that. Anyway, I might could go for a pair, we'll see.
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Glad to see that you got your pair of Elac, I'm going crazy waiting and waiting .... for my pair of 6.5 Elac that I ordered on Amazon, but still unavailable there. Just order them after reading the comment from Jeff Bagby here, let me tell you if they sound better than the Pioneer ( and the Pioneer sound incredible ) we have a winer!!!!
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Now you need to get some IsoAcoustic stands for those B5's.
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Now you need to get some IsoAcoustic stands for those B5's.
+1, they make a big difference.
I finally got my ANdrew Jones speakers... not ELAC, Pioneer S-1EX. :green:
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+1, they make a big difference.
I finally got my ANdrew Jones speakers... not ELAC, Pioneer S-1EX. :green:
How would you describe the difference with the IsoAcoustics stands under the speakers?
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How would you describe the difference with the IsoAcoustics stands under the speakers?
A lot less energy is transmitted to the floor, reducing sympathetic resonance of random things around the house... there is more a sense of the music floating in space. They also result in cleaner sounding bass, and that effect extends up into the midrange. Try it and you'll never spike a speaker to the floor ever again.. :green:
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I got the B6's this week and after about 25 hours on them, they are sounding very good. ELAC was generous enough to ship them at their expense. I have them a couple inches from the back wall on the stand behind my bed (not the best position, admittedly) and am driving them with a Music Fidelity M3i int. amp which is a breeze. The bass is increasingly better defined as they burn in and is deep enough that I feel no need for a sub with them. My impression is that they are very detailed and extended and have a mid-range that allows vocals to sound very natural. Recalling my time with the KEF LS50's, these are more laid-back and neutral sounding.... and far far easier to drive than the KEF's. If the price was equal to that of the KEF's, I would still prefer these speakers, but the fact is they are less than 25% of the cost of the KEF's. I do think these will improve with another 100-200 hours on them, but I am loving what I am hearing right now. In comparison to my budget reference monitors, the Dali Zensor 1's, these have a much "bigger" sound and deeper bass. Hats off to Andrew Jones and ELAC for setting a new bar for great budget speakers! I heard Danny at GR Research is designing a new x-over for them that will likely even improve their performance.
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I heard Danny at GR Research is designing a new x-over for them that will likely even improve their performance.
Doubtful at best. In fact, I'd stick with the AJ designed crossover.
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Doubtful at best. In fact, I'd stick with the AJ designed crossover.
I emphatically disagree. The stock crossover is built at a very low price point. Cheap miracles are no match for uncompromising quality.
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:D hummmm, I absolutely LOVE a 'cheap miracle' .... :D wish they happened more often. I also Love people shooting holes it stupid overpricing and marketing tactics. :D
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Well the AJ BS22 were sort of considered a cheap miracle. However cheap miracles are rarely miraculous. The only miracle is that people are allured by pretense and hysteria. :oops:
OTOH modifications by Dennis Murphy (which were not profitable for him) doubled the price of the AJ BS22... and these modifications were widely, if not universally regarded as more than well worth it.
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Well the AJ BS22 were sort of considered a cheap miracle. However cheap miracles are rarely miraculous. The only miracle is that people are allured by pretense and hysteria. :oops:
OTOH modifications by Dennis Murphy (which were not profitable for him) doubled the price of the AJ BS22... and these modifications were widely, if not universally regarded as more than well worth it.
You obviously haven't heard the ELAC line. Further, anybody can do what Andrew has done. Oh, that's right, no they can't! If they could they would have done it. Any kit that is a 3 way is even more than those speakers and they walk all over them. Sorry but changing parts isn't "designing" nor is saying that it's all wrong. :duh:
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You obviously haven't heard the ELAC line. Further, anybody can do what Andrew has done. Oh, that's right, no they can't! If they could they would have done it. Any kit that is a 3 way is even more than those speakers and they walk all over them. Sorry but changing parts isn't "designing" nor is saying that it's all wrong. :duh:
Ok, can't take it anymore. If those exact same speakers were in the Cambridge room, people would have had good things to say, but the Andrew Jones aura is IMO just as responsible for the interweb gushing as the performance to price is. They're nothing more than a $600 pair of speakers that sound like a $1000 pair. At RMAF I thought the Cambridge towers at $1200 were better sounding overall and built to a much higher standard. Wharfedale makes some towers at near the same price that would better the Elac's in most ways, Focal and Dynaudio make make some monitors that will beat the Elac monitors. That's just off the top of my head, there are all sorts of other brands I'd look at as well like Chane and Swans. Bottom line is these Elac's are not any sort of revelation. It's just that the audiophiles have been so focused on the higher end for so long, they have no realization that all these other values lines even exist.
The Chane's especially, previously called Arx, are great speakers for the price. If you're feeling yourself getting caught up in the Elac hoopla, you should check those out first.
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Since we were not at RMAF so I can't really comment on what they played there at all.
On the other hand, I did listen to the B5 at CAS and they are the real thing.
FYI, we are one of their competitors but I have to tip my hat to Andrew.
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Since we were not at RMAF so I can't really comment on what they played there at all.
On the other hand, I did listen to the B5 at CAS and they are the real thing.
FYI, we are one of their competitors but I have to tip my hat to Andrew.
Very classy, my friend 8)
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Ok, can't take it anymore. If those exact same speakers were in the Cambridge room, people would have had good things to say, but the Andrew Jones aura is IMO just as responsible for the interweb gushing as the performance to price is. They're nothing more than a $600 pair of speakers that sound like a $1000 pair. At RMAF I thought the Cambridge towers at $1200 were better sounding overall and built to a much higher standard. Wharfedale makes some towers at near the same price that would better the Elac's in most ways, Focal and Dynaudio make make some monitors that will beat the Elac monitors. That's just off the top of my head, there are all sorts of other brands I'd look at as well like Chane and Swans. Bottom line is these Elac's are not any sort of revelation. It's just that the audiophiles have been so focused on the higher end for so long, they have no realization that all these other values lines even exist.
The Chane's especially, previously called Arx, are great speakers for the price. If you're feeling yourself getting caught up in the Elac hoopla, you should check those out first.
The butthurt is strong with this one.
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The butthurt is strong with this one.
Really, giving props to a laundry-list of other great speakers at the price-point is butthurt? I really don't care who wins in the "Made in a Cambodian sweatshop" category. But some of those other brands deserve just as much attention, even if they don't have the name attached.
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Really, giving props to a laundry-list of other great speakers at the price-point is butthurt? I really don't care who wins in the "Made in a Cambodian sweatshop" category. But some of those other brands deserve just as much attention, even if they don't have the name attached.
Gotta agree with Ryan here. Part of the spirit at AC is members pointing folks to under the radar gear that sounds super.
And audition, audition, audition for speakers in particular
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Lets get a handle on what is important.
I only buy products made in my own country now. Virtue, Vapor, Omega, Tortuga, Magnepan and DAC. Read between the lines the sellout to china does not interest me.
Think about it.
This is all I am going to say about equipment manufactures who send the money over seas.
These discussions would not be important if we supported, Ryan, Louis, Seth etc.
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Lets get a handle on what is important.
I only buy products made in my own country now. Virtue, Vapor, Omega, Tortuga, Magnepan and DAC. Read between the lines the sellout to china does not interest me.
Think about it.
This is all I am going to say about equipment manufactures who send the money over seas.
These discussions would not be important if we supported, Ryan, Louis, Seth etc.
If money is tight and you want killer sound, AND want to keep it in the US, write somebody like us (or Salk, Klaus, Duke, etc) and ask them if they can meet your budget by skipping pretty cabinet work. RAAL has an inexpensive ribbon now, and there are no shortage of excellent woofers in the $50-$100/each range. Put them together in a simple rectangular MDF or Birch Ply box with vinyl wrap as the finish, and you could get a large percentage of the performance for little cost.
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Get a handle here folks. The butthurt comment was out of line and added nothing to the discussion. Please don't post anything remotely like that again.
Ryan, I understand your point, just remember this is the C&C circle and some of the models mentioned would be over the pricing guidelines. We want to compare the B5 and B6 to other speakers between $229 and $279, which several of your examples do. And how could it not be a good thing to have another set of contenders in the budget champion sweepstakes?
The C&C circle will always be a place populated by products built overseas. If you have a buy American only philosophy, I wish you good fortune, but a philosophy like that will never be supported on this circle. That being said, we of course fully support all of the sponsors here that sell products meeting C&C guidelines. You do know that the site is Australian, right?
Back to the topic, I'm wondering if the B5 is the sweetheart of the line, the larger driver in the B6 often muddies the sound in many inexpensive speakers. The F5 is not receiving the same accolades as the B5, anyone compare the two bookshelves side by side?
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Back to the topic, I'm wondering if the B5 is the sweetheart of the line, the larger driver in the B6 often muddies the sound in many inexpensive speakers. The F5 is not receiving the same accolades as the B5, anyone compare the two bookshelves side by side?
I'm curious too. Many of these speakers will find themselves connected to a lower cost integrated amplifier or receiver, so I'm leaning toward the additional 2dB of sensitivity of the B6.
I'm sure there will be a number of people who buy both to assemble an HT system, so I'm guessing that within a few months we'll get to hear a few actual hands-on comparisons between B5 and B6.
Steve
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You obviously haven't heard the ELAC line.
A cheap crossover is a cheap crossover regardless of who designed it. I'm sure Mr Jones did the best he could within the allocated budget, but to say or even suggest that Danny couldn't build a better crossover indicates you are heavily invested in rainbows and unicorns. :lol:
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There are quite a number of very good crossover designers here at AC, and they all build to price points. Jones is a very talented one, but not the only very talented one. I think it is beyond question that almost any speaker can be improved until you get into the extreme high end. A $500 speaker surely can be improved with and extra $200 in crossover components, cabinet braces, or deadening material.
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Interesting comments from a thoughtful crowd. With another day of listening to my new B6's, they do not fail to satisfy. However, I did swap back in my Dali Zensor 1 monitors, their lowest-cost speaker I believe or nearly so, and while the sound of the Dali's is not nearly as expansive as the B6's, the Dali's do have a greater sense of delicacy and poise (not very descriptive, I admit) than the B6's. Remember this is with about 35 hours on the ELAC's so take that into account. At any rate, AJ has created a hell of a speaker at its price point and after listening to 6 hours of classical music on the B6's today, they are very very enjoyable. As I listen to 98% jazz, I might be inclined to think that the B6's will truly fit the bill for a rocker and maybe the Dali's shine a bit more in the presentation of jazz. It is not fair to conclude anything until I get the B6's run in so there is that. And, as I sit here listening to them, I just smile at the fact that they only cost $300! The LF response of the B6's betters that from the Dali's by a fair margin and I think that aspect of the B6's sound has a lot of appeal.
To the issue of buying US gear only, I appreciate patronizing US companies of all sorts and have done so. But those that say that they only buy US gear, the fact of the matter is that 90% of all consumer products are built overseas or at least most of their parts are. I doubt that hardly anyone can say that they have a flat screen TV sourced and built in the US, as an example. Does anybody have the cell phone or computer built in the US? Rather doubtful. On the other hand, lots of Toyota's are assembled in the US. So, it is an international economy and enjoy your participation in it. That is my take anyway.
To the issue of tweaks to the new ELAC speakers, I will say that I have had a least a dozen pieces of gear tweaked over the years, going back to a Hafler amp and preamp in the 80's to my current Oppo 103 CD player. I nearly all cases, the improvement was sonically noticeable and rewarding. That said, almost never were the cost of the tweaks recoverable upon resale. If you have a legacy piece of gear, no worries. However, if you are like me, and have a penchant for swapping gear on a routine basis, the costs of the tweaks never ever pencils out. Tweaking the B6's with what Danny has in mind might or might not make sense unless you can do the tweak yourself, which I can not. In closing, it is a joy hooking up with you learned folks on the C&C forum as it took me many years to find this niche in the audio world. A parting thought, as a frame of reference, I reiterate my earlier comment that I much prefer the B6's to the KEF LS50's, the much heralded, but to my ears, a vastly over-rated speaker and difficult to drive. All the best, Whitestix
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Well said.
Interesting comments from a thoughtful crowd. With another day of listening to my new B6's, they do not fail to satisfy. However, I did swap back in my Dali Zensor 1 monitors, their lowest-cost speaker I believe or nearly so, and while the sound of the Dali's is not nearly as expansive as the B6's, the Dali's do have a greater sense of delicacy and poise (not very descriptive, I admit) than the B6's. Remember this is with about 35 hours on the ELAC's so take that into account. At any rate, AJ has created a hell of a speaker at its price point and after listening to 6 hours of classical music on the B6's today, they are very very enjoyable. As I listen to 98% jazz, I might be inclined to think that the B6's will truly fit the bill for a rocker and maybe the Dali's shine a bit more in the presentation of jazz. It is not fair to conclude anything until I get the B6's run in so there is that. And, as I sit here listening to them, I just smile at the fact that they only cost $300! The LF response of the B6's betters that from the Dali's by a fair margin and I think that aspect of the B6's sound has a lot of appeal.
To the issue of buying US gear only, I appreciate patronizing US companies of all sorts and have done so. But those that say that they only buy US gear, the fact of the matter is that 90% of all consumer products are built overseas or at least most of their parts are. I doubt that hardly anyone can say that they have a flat screen TV sourced and built in the US, as an example. Does anybody have the cell phone or computer built in the US? Rather doubtful. On the other hand, lots of Toyota's are assembled in the US. So, it is an international economy and enjoy your participation in it. That is my take anyway.
To the issue of tweaks to the new ELAC speakers, I will say that I have had a least a dozen pieces of gear tweaked over the years, going back to a Hafler amp and preamp in the 80's to my current Oppo 103 CD player. I nearly all cases, the improvement was sonically noticeable and rewarding. That said, almost never were the cost of the tweaks recoverable upon resale. If you have a legacy piece of gear, no worries. However, if you are like me, and have a penchant for swapping gear on a routine basis, the costs of the tweaks never ever pencils out. Tweaking the B6's with what Danny has in mind might or might not make sense unless you can do the tweak yourself, which I can not. In closing, it is a joy hooking up with you learned folks on the C&C forum as it took me many years to find this niche in the audio world. A parting thought, as a frame of reference, I reiterate my earlier comment that I much prefer the B6's to the KEF LS50's, the much heralded, but to my ears, a vastly over-rated speaker and difficult to drive. All the best, Whitestix
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I did swap back in my Dali Zensor 1 monitors, their lowest-cost speaker I believe or nearly so, and while the sound of the Dali's is not nearly as expansive as the B6's, the Dali's do have a greater sense of delicacy and poise (not very descriptive, I admit) than the B6's.
I wonder to what extent this difference, break-in aside, is attributable to the 5.25" driver vs the 6.5" driver of the B6. This does make me curious about this aspect and now wonder whether the B5 sounds better in the mids than the B6 and, for me, outweigh the value of the 2 dB extra sensitivity and the greater bass extension.
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Thanks for sharing your thoughts Whitestix. I absolutely love the Dali Zensor 1's. Treat em' right, and they'll give you GREAT tone!
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Thanks for sharing your thoughts Whitestix. I absolutely love the Dali Zensor 1's. Treat em' right, and they'll give you GREAT tone!
Dude, just saw your review of the Dali's that was posted on Audioshark. Well done!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gh4s1XJ4Rr8
I'm glad you mentioned the type of component that would go best with them. I have a Lepai 2020a that I use at work and I'm hoping the ELAC B5 will be a good mate whereas from your description of the Dali's they may not.
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Thanks for sharing your thoughts Whitestix. I absolutely love the Dali Zensor 1's. Treat em' right, and they'll give you GREAT tone!
Right on, Zero. I love the detail and precision of the Dali's, everything sounds just about right from such a small cabinet. I would like to hear more of their speakers in the future, of which they seem to have dozens. I listened to them for a while with a Dared SL2000a tube preamp and Primaluna Prologue 4 35 wpc amp and, just as one expects from tube amplification, the soundstage was just HUGE! Much wider and deeper, for sure. I find that sound to be very intoxicating, but after a while, I missed the more tuneful precision and particularly, the LF control with my Music Fidelity 3i ss integrated amp, but at the loss of the huge soundstage. It is a plus/minus deal with the sound of tubes vs.SS gear, unless one spends mega-bucks. I am going to split the difference later today and swap the Dared preamp back into the system with a DIY ClassD amp to see if I get the best of both worlds. The ClassD amp costs all of about $100 and is very clean sounding. We did an A/B test at a past San Francisco Audio society event of the ClassD amp against a highly modified full Class A amp (I forget the brand) and 2/3's of the listeners preferred my ClassD amp. The Dared, at its price point, with some better Mundorf caps, is quite satisfying for those of us devotees of cheap and cheerful gear.
I suspect a lot of speakers will give the B6's a run for their money in the budget speaker realm, but listening to them again all day, I am very happy with them. One observation I could make of the B6's it that they sound like big floor standing speakers with a good deal of LF energy, but of course are modest-sized monitors. I can't find really anything to fault them on, other than they are not quite as resolving of inner detail as the Dali's. I am going to pick up a pair of B&W 686 S2 monitors to compare to the B6's and the Dali's, based on their uniformly great reviews. Of course the B&W speakers cost 2X the price of the B6's.
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I don't think the Elac Debut speakers will be giant killers, slaying speakers costing many times more. But I do think if you compare the Elacs to many other speakers in the sub-$1000 price range they will more than hold their own (at least based on my hearing them at a couple of the audio shows). It is no small feat selling a decent or good sounding speaker at the price point of the Elac Debut series.
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I don't think the Elac Debut speakers will be giant killers, slaying speakers costing many times more. But I do think if you compare the Elacs to many other speakers in the sub-$1000 price range they will more than hold their own (at least based on my hearing them at a couple of the audio shows). It is no small feat selling a decent or good sounding speaker at the price point of the Elac Debut series.
Sir,
I agree with your observation, particularly that ELAC has created such an excellent-sounding monitor for a small price. I keenly await a comparison between the B5 and B6 versions, and more particularly, a comparison of either of them to the KEF LS50's. If lots of folks prefer the ELACs to the $1500 KEFs, then they might be judged to be "slayers of speakers costing many times more". While I haven't had the KEF's in my system for a couple of years, my recollection is that the B6's are much more musical to my ears. The KEF's always were perceived by my ears as a being very aggressive and tapped out the ability of my then 175 wpc Plinius integrated amp to drive them to decent SPL's. In contrast, my 35 wpc Music Fidelity integrated amp drives the B6's to thunderous SPL's with clarity and with ease. YMMV, of course. Sorry for drifting off topic and I again say I agree with the thrust of your comment. With the robust offerings of sub-$500 monitors on the market, it bewilders me why every home and dorm room in the US doesn't have a pair of such speakers.
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Hey Tomy - Thanks for watching my review! I think you're right on the money. There's a good chance that the Lepai won't mesh all too well with the Dali Zensor 1's. It's not a power issue so much as a tonal issue. The B5's would be a safer bet.
Meicheng - I think you're right. The ELAC's are unquestionably excellent loudspeakers. I wouldn't go so far as to call them giant killers, but I do believe that Andrew and the team just set the bar for what can be achieved for the money. After all, it's important to note that the aforementioned Dali Zensor 1's are double the cost of the new ELAC B5 monitors.
Whitestix - Class-D can positively kick ass when done the right way. Couple a cheap n' cheerful amp like that with something like your Dared, and you should get a very well-rounded, enjoyable presentation. Let us know how you like the combo with your new ELAC's. :)
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Sir,
I agree with your observation, particularly that ELAC has created such an excellent-sounding monitor for a small price. I keenly await a comparison between the B5 and B6 versions, and more particularly, a comparison of either of them to the KEF LS50's. If lots of folks prefer the ELACs to the $1500 KEFs, then they might be judged to be "slayers of speakers costing many times more". While I haven't had the KEF's in my system for a couple of years, my recollection is that the B6's are much more musical to my ears. The KEF's always were perceived by my ears as a being very aggressive and tapped out the ability of my then 175 wpc Plinius integrated amp to drive them to decent SPL's. In contrast, my 35 wpc Music Fidelity integrated amp drives the B6's to thunderous SPL's with clarity and with ease. YMMV, of course. Sorry for drifting off topic and I again say I agree with the thrust of your comment. With the robust offerings of sub-$500 monitors on the market, it bewilders me why every home and dorm room in the US doesn't have a pair of such speakers.
They are nice sounding speakers for the price but not at the same level vs the LS50 imo. There's no getting around the fact the ELAC uses an inexpensive tweeter and good tweeters aren't cheap. Not that the ELAC tweeter sound bad, it's fine... probably very good for the price of the speaker but the LS50's concentric drivers are far better imo.
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Hey Folks. I am interested in hearing peoples comments/observations/reviews of the ELAC speakers, in particular the bookshelf speakers, now that some people have had them for a little while. Thanks.
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I have had a pair of B6's since Monday evening. I have let them play as much as possible while I am home and away. They sounded pretty good out of the box. Two nights later did not sound very good at all. I spent a couple hours listening today and they sound great. Different than the Pioneers. They have ample bass and seem very balanced. The mid range was a little hot today but that may be part of the break in process and the fact that I have them hooked up to a SMSL Q5 right now. I will hook them up to my main rig when they have another week or so of hours on them to see how they sound in my main rig. They are a no brainer if you are looking for a great sounding speaker.
They are much bigger than my assortment of other bookies.
Scott
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=130400)
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So has anybody who attended the show at Newport or the CAS in northern CA and heard the ELAC B5's had an opportunity to get a pair for themselves? I've had the B5's for about a week now and had intended to set them up at work for a desktop kind of setup. Unfortunately they didn't quite workout as they need more space than I was going to give them. My little Nappa Acoustics work much better and have much better detail.
I've tried since Friday to get them in my home system with some pretty decent electronics to get them to perform they way they sounded at Newport. They seem to be pretty particular about placement, not too close to the back wall but not too far away. About 7 to 8 feet apart appear to be the best sounding in my room. They don't sound anywhere near what I heard at Newport. Almost to the point I'm wondering if they're the same speaker. They sounded so good at Newport I wondered what could they possibly come out with next that will garner someone paying more money for the performance the Debut was giving.
Just curious if it's just me or if anybody is experiencing the same thing. Since they didn't work out for my office/shop I will be either selling them or giving them back to Amazon.
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They are nice sounding speakers for the price but not at the same level vs the LS50 imo. There's no getting around the fact the ELAC uses an inexpensive tweeter and good tweeters aren't cheap. Not that the ELAC tweeter sound bad, it's fine... probably very good for the price of the speaker but the LS50's concentric drivers are far better imo.
Maybe the drivers are better but the sound not as good as the Elac. That's why Mr. Jones is so good creating this kind of sound with inexpensive drivers. :icon_twisted: :icon_twisted:
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Maybe the drivers are better but the sound not as good as the Elac. That's why Mr. Jones is so good creating this kind of sound with inexpensive drivers. :icon_twisted: :icon_twisted:
Or, the marketing campaign was really good. :lol:
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Andrew Jones is an awesome engineer, not a miracle maker. Enjoy the Elacs for what they are : Budget speakers that perform highly in many parameters similar to more expensive speakers. Stop being so concerned about their place in the market. If you bought them and enjoy them, then what else really matters?
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I can't say any better.
Andrew Jones is an awesome engineer, not a miracle maker. Enjoy the Elacs for what they are : Budget speakers that perform highly in many parameters similar to more expensive speakers. Stop being so concerned about their place in the market. If you bought them and enjoy them, then what else really matters?
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I got the F5s and C5 in my HT set up driven by Outlaw amps and Onkyo processor. I am hearing details on music and dialogues that I didn't with the 30 year old Polk SDAs. But they are not as good as my main audio. Funny thing is I thought one of the Polk speaker was out but it turns out to be a channel in the Outlaw 7 channel amp. I co-opted a channel used for a rear speaker for now but I suppose I should get the amp checked out. I may just get a 11 channel amp. I want to run 4 atmos speakers on top of the 7.1.
Anyway, a pair of Polk SDAs and an Aperion monitor (all working) are free to anyone who will carry them out.
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I'll take them.
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Or, the marketing campaign was really good. :lol:
Yes, your right!!!! mouth to mouth marketing is very powerful :lol: :lol: :lol:.
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In this day, social media actually IS the most powerful marketing tool. Why is that funny? :duh:
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Here is a review of the B5's with a few measurements.
http://noaudiophile.com/ELAC_B5/
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Here is a review of the B5's with a few measurements.
http://noaudiophile.com/ELAC_B5/
Thanks for that review link. Not quite "These speakers knock it out of the park" conclusion we were lead to believe.
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Thanks for that review link. Not quite "These speakers know it out of the park" conclusion we were lead to believe.
Seems like a great review to me - for $225/pair.
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Here is a review of the B5's with a few measurements.
http://noaudiophile.com/ELAC_B5/
You need a review up on your site of something you actually like or you will need to change your name to the negativeaudiophile
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Also, his desktop set up is laughably configured for meaningful speaker assessment, with the wall so close to the right and, especially in light of that, zero toe in.
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You need a review up on your site of something you actually like or you will need to change your name to the negativeaudiophile
I liked the B5, but they are not perfect and unlike all the other reviewers out there I'm willing to say what I think is wrong with them instead of the cop out line of "for the money"
I think the JBL LSR305 and 308 are probably the best deals in audio at the moment, and I gave each of them mostly positive reviews.
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Also, his desktop set up is laughably configured for meaningful speaker assessment, with the wall so close to the right and, especially in light of that, zero toe in.
Inverse square law works wonders for near field monitoring setups.
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Inverse square law works wonders for near field monitoring setups.
Ohhh - it's you!! :duh:
You may be no audiophile, but I think you need to try harder with your set ups. For another example, were the input terminals shorted in the subs that you used as speaker stands in the living room part of your review?
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I have the B6's in a bedroom and I used my own two ears to judge them prior to purchase...knock...out...of...the...par k as far as I'm concerned. Make no mistake, they are budget speakers built with budget parts to hit the ridiculously low price point of $279 in my case, $229 in the reviewers case...so of course they're going to utilize cheaper parts. But, man are they ever a breath of fresh air in the world of hi-fi...and really, just a kick-ass example what can be accomplished with smart engineering and inexpensive parts.
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I liked the B5, but they are not perfect and unlike all the other reviewers out there I'm willing to say what I think is wrong with them instead of the cop out line of "for the money"
I think the JBL LSR305 and 308 are probably the best deals in audio at the moment, and I gave each of them mostly positive reviews.
I'll check out those JBL - thank you.
Honesty is always good.
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Ohhh - it's you!! :duh:
You may be no audiophile, but I think you need to try harder with your set ups. For another example, were the input terminals shorted in the subs that you used as speaker stands in the living room part of your review?
I'll bet you a beer that there is zero measurable difference in the bass response in the listening position if the subs are shorted or not.
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I'll bet you a beer that there is zero measurable difference in the bass response in the listening position if the subs are shorted or not.
Well you have the equipment; why not run a quick sweep and compare—with other speakers if you don't still have the B5s? I'd be curious if it was measurable, too, but it certainly is good test practice and easily done with an alligator clip jumper.
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Well you have the equipment; why not run a quick sweep and compare—with other speakers if you don't still have the B5s? I'd be curious if it was measurable, too, but it certainly is good test practice and easily done with an alligator clip jumper.
The subs are already so stiff that shorting them does nothing as far as that I can tell. I'm always down to debunk a myth so I'll test it out and let you know what I find the next time I have measuring gear in the living room.
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I guess you know that the effect is easily heard by finger-tapping the cones when shorted and not. Some subs are quite resonant, i.e., you hear a distinct frequency in response to a tap. Those would sing along to a nearby speaker. On the other hand, if the sub is connected to a decent amp with a good damping factor, then turning that amp on is almost as good as shorting the inputs.
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I guess you know that the effect is easily heard by finger-tapping the cones when shorted and not. Some subs are quite resonant, i.e., you hear a distinct frequency in response to a tap. Those would sing along to a nearby speaker. On the other hand, if the sub is connected to a decent amp with a good damping factor, then turning that amp on is almost as good as shorting the inputs.
Didn't know about tapping them, thanks for sharing that bit of knowledge. I'll stick with the measurement mic though and give it a shot soon.
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I have listened to both the KEF LS50 and the ELAC Debut B6 speakers. All i can say is that while the LS50 speakers sound great. they are not - for the money - demonstrably better than the B6 speakers.
Am racking my brain and am not sure that I have heard such a musical, off the shelf, not from a kit, new in the box, pair of speakers sub $300.00.
I too, was suprised, by the size of the B6 speakers. I was expecting them to be smaller, nonetheless, hats off to Andrew Jones.
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[Deleted by maty]
Maybe, the next ELAC Uni-Fi UB5 coaxial speakers. The problem is that you need to wait a while to know their frequency, phase, impedance graphs... and reviews.
-> http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=140079.msg1515795#msg1515795
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[Deleted by maty]
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Hi maty, it's hard to understand from your link what exactly you did to your Q100's. I have a pair, but could I suggest that perhaps you start a new thread to discuss mods to it? I wouldn't mind knowing what you did more specifically, but I don't think it belongs in this thread.
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I cleaned what bothered you.
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Actually what bothered me was the lack of a dedicated thread to discuss the Q100 (and/or mods to it).., Anyway, never mind :)
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Really looking forward to trying out the UniFi in my home.
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[Deleted by maty]
Maybe, the next ELAC Uni-Fi UB5 coaxial speakers. The problem is that you need to wait a while to know their frequency, phase, impedance graphs... and reviews.
-> http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=140079.msg1515795#msg1515795
Thats to a danny richie thread not a new one. Might want to mention that....
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Didn't know about tapping them, thanks for sharing that bit of knowledge. I'll stick with the measurement mic though and give it a shot soon.
Hell, if you have a measuring mic, why even bother listening to the speakers? The data should tell you everything you need to know. /sarcasm
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Music Direct is selling the Uni-Fi speakers with small 'blemishes' for a nice discount, scroll to the bottom of the linked page:
http://www.musicdirect.com/m-2094-elac.aspx
Best,
Anand.
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I just purchased the ELAC Uni-fi UB5 blemished (i.e. greenish tint on the mid-range driver) from Amazon for $399 and it is amazing!!
I can't believe the sound quality for the $$ :thumb:
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I just purchased the ELAC Uni-fi UB5 blemished (i.e. greenish tint on the mid-range driver) from Amazon for $399 and it is amazing!!
I can't believe the sound quality for the $$ :thumb:
What stands out about them in particular
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Heard them ever so briefly at Axpona last April (reportedly the room was crowded the entire weekend). They had way more bass and mid-bass body than the B6. But at the Munich show he introduced the active version for $750/pair. That should be another step up.
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What stands out about them in particular
I have mine beside my TV up against side and back walls. So their bass and imaging is not something I can really speak on, although they definitely disappear now even though they are setup horribly. I find their mid range and highs to be very detailed and natural. Good recordings just sound so nice I don't want to stop listening.
My 2-channel system uses Pass Labs+SimAudio+Magico S1s and I'm used to hearing what I like to think of as a detailed, refined, and natural sound through them.
Folks who don't like the Magico sound may disagree... but it is hard to argue the Magico sound isn't at least detailed and very clean.
When I start listening to my favorite recordings through the Elacs (simply driven by a Logitech squeeze box analogue output and a Cambridge Audio Integrated) to me the songs sound similar to what I'm used to hearing in my main system. The vocals sound and feel very familiar as does the higher frequencies.
All in all, I was sitting on my couch in front of the TV listening to a something from Blue Coast Music thinking maybe all the money I sunk in my main system wasn't really needed :o
Yes my big-rig is better, but for $499 MSRP along with a good sounding Integrated it is amazing the amount of big league sound you get from these at literally pennies on the dollar!
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Nice review.
The importance of controlled directivity cannot be emphasized enough in a poor room, like cement walled spaces in Far East Asia :wink:. It's not about "active" or not "active" per se, it's about proper crossover design, driver design, along with controlled directivity. This is why ELAC's new designs by AJ, Clayton's new designs at Spatial, Tom Danley's Synergy design, Duke LeJeune's work and Earl Geddes' designs excel so much.
I know a good design by WHO designed it not by the drivers, box/cabinet, crossover parts, etc...the devil is in the details.
Just my $.02,
Anand.
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Finished up a review of the ELAC UB5. Figured you guys might find the measurements interesting.
http://noaudiophile.com/ELAC_UB5/
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I am curious how closely the response graphs reflect what I hear.
One of the highest peaks is at 2k and while it might only be about 3db above the low spot at 1.3k, I wonder if it is audibly annoying.
The peak at 2k is matched at about 120Hz and 720Hz, but the rest of the response is down about 2db from this.
I am very sensitive to anomalies in the 2k area.
I have heard this speaker and thought it sounded quite good, and excellent for the money.
The bass and lower mid-range seemed to me the best part of this speaker.
I just wasn't positive about that area around 2k. I needed to hear different test tracks.
Most test tracks seem to avoid playing anything with a lot of energy in this area or they do the opposite and play horns with no energy anywhere else.
If just once someone would use some heavy metal you could figure it out rather quickly. Everyone says it isn't recorded well, and I just don't buy it. It all sounds amazing in my car.
I am surprised by the bass roll-off shown in the graphs. I would not have guessed that given what I heard.
I also worry about distortion that seems inherit in coaxial designs.
I would have been happier with a non-coax design, without the grill over the tweeter being mandatory, and with a larger woofer.
I don't really get the point of a 3-way with a 5.25 inch woofer.
I really wonder though just how low the mains should go if one is going to employ sub-woofers anyway.
That dip and 1.3k followed by a rise to 2k seems like an extremely common pattern that I have seen in speakers.
I wonder if it is related to the baffle width.
I did like the unifi-b5 much better than the original b5.
The amp used was something like $3k though.
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That dip and 1.3k followed by a rise to 2k seems like an extremely common pattern that I have seen in speakers.
I've heard that this is an issue with diffraction from the surround on speakers.
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They are nice sounding speakers for the price but not at the same level vs the LS50 imo. There's no getting around the fact the ELAC uses an inexpensive tweeter and good tweeters aren't cheap. Not that the ELAC tweeter sound bad, it's fine... probably very good for the price of the speaker but the LS50's concentric drivers are far better imo.
Actually, building a good inexpensive tweeter is quite easy. Danny Richie went into detail with this when the X-LS speaker was upgraded to encore. You don't need to spend a fortune or use exotic parts to create a good driver. The problem is all about budgeting. A $300 speaker pair you can buy off Amazon has how much Mark up? Then, Elac gets a cut. Then, with what's left, you have to build the speaker and purchase supplies/parts for TWO speakers. Money goes fast. In reality, to upgrade the tweeter would have likely been a few dollars per speaker. The entry level audiophile probably won't care so much about the slight improvements, but to the seasoned person who owns higher end products, it will sound lacking. This is designed as more of an entry level bang for buck product. Still, as AV123 learned, just put the better parts in and spend a few more dollars and it will pay off.
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ELAC Uni-fi UB5 Part2: Listening Impressions
-> http://noaudiophile.com/ELAC_UB5_Listening_Impressions/
…Now for the down side. As soon as you try to really play music the speaker becomes a shout box. When turning them up past 92dB (measured near field) the speaker loses control, and starts sounding more like a PA system than HiFi audio.
…I asked ELAC why the speaker shits the bed is such a unique way at 92dB, and did not get a response. My instinct here is that this limitation is because of driver design, maybe not enough magnet or copper on the midrange.
By the way:
-> http://www.doctorproaudio.com/doctor/calculadores_en.htm#calc_spl
-> https://elac.com/product/ub5/
Speaker type: 3-way, bass reflex
Tweeter: 1 x 1-inch soft dome, concentrically mounted
Midrange: 1 x 4-inch aluminum cone
Woofer: 1 x 5.25-inch aluminum cone
Crossover frequency: 270 / 2,700 Hz
Frequency response: 46 to 25,000 Hz
Sensitivity: 85 dB at 2.83 v/1m
Recommended amplifier power: 40 to 140 wpc
Peak power handling: 140 wpc
Nominal impedance: 4 Ω; minimum 3.4 Ω
Binding posts: 5-way custom
Magnetic shielding: No
Cabinet finishes: Black brushed vinyl
Accessories included: Magnetic fabric grille
Dimensions (WxHxD): 7.87″ x 12.75″ x 10.75″
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I do love NoAudiophile's reviews. They are humorous. I didn't expect the speaker to do well past 90dB as many small speakers have trouble there. NoAudiophile had similar conclusions on the substantially more expensive Selah Compatto's which I enjoyed last year at Richidoo. It was smooth as butter, but we kept the volumes at sane levels.
If you want to really laugh, check out his review on the Bose 901's! Comb filtering galore! Thanks for that review!
In all seriousness, NoAudiophile has the knowledge to build a really nice 2ch room so that his low end measurements can improve considerably.
But then again, he's doing a favor for all those fellas who are trying to squeeze their speakers designed for a free standing setup to a desktop setup. I don't think there are too many of them however.
Best,
Anand.
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92dB at 1 meter is pretty loud, but not too loud for a home theater speaker in a large room. Also, the midrange driver was probably only putting out about 75dB when it started having problems because I was testing with music. Music is usually 15-20dB elevated in the bass range. I could have turned it up more, but I stopped twisting the knob when the speaker started to sound bad.
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The noaudiophile review was not very positive for the ub5.
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The noaudiophile review was not very positive for the ub5.
Yeah, I was surprised to read that, but it seems that it's good at lower levels but falls apart above 92 dB. Too bad he didn't try what he did with the JBL LSR 308s which apparently were transformed when used with his subs.
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Used B6's on Craigslist.
$275 with stands-http://newhaven.craigslist.org/ele/5777730357.html
ELAC DEBUT B6 SPEAKERS - $240 New-http://miami.craigslist.org/brw/ele/5765590219.html
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I bought a pair of the Elac ub5. I have no issues with them. Mids and highs are good, bass is a little lacking. I will need a sub with these for my likes. Speakers do disappear rather well. I have not had them to fall apart but I have not really played them very loud either. I also have a pair of av123 xls encore and they are excellent speakers. At the original price of $199.00, I think they beat of the Elacs at $399.00. I will be conpairing them more in days to come.
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Yeah, I was surprised to read that, but it seems that it's good at lower levels but falls apart above 92 dB. Too bad he didn't try what he did with the JBL LSR 308s which apparently were transformed when used with his subs.
I was a bit surprised to hear that and am curious if other folks had this experience with them. When they were being demoed by Andrew Jones at AXPONA, he made a point of cranking them up with difficult music and they sounded great.
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Anybody F5 & F6?